Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Topic: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms? (Read 335082 times)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #400 – 2014-07-23, 22:59:22

Spike in the gun frenzy in the US of A? Now why is that not a surprise as too many of the population are like a kindergarten mentality. Emotional, brained intro security stuff. What an emotional bunch of childlike mindsets. By the end of 2014 another 10 or 11,000 will have been shot dead so the Constitution bit of pointless paper is doing well.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #401 – 2014-07-24, 00:21:40

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-07-24, 10:59:22

.....the Constitution ........is doing well.

Thank You

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #402 – 2014-07-24, 01:10:50

Indeed the constitution is doing well and our rights are protected

Perhaps we can use it to bring down the NSA spying apparatus (unreasonable searches and seizures?)There's has to be some right to bear arms. People think of having to use it against a criminal, but there are other cases. For example, coyotes stroll in neighborhoods on the edge of Las Vegas. You have to be able to shoot it if the animal is going after your small child, or more likely the family pet. All but a radical few see the need to keep the Second Amendment, with the only real point of contention is where you should be allowed to bring it.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #403 – 2014-07-24, 03:28:10

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-07-24, 13:10:50

Indeed the constitution is doing well and our rights are protected ........All but a radical few see the need to keep the Second Amendment, with the only real point of contention is where you should be allowed to bring it

On those points, I could agree with you completely.

Our [glow=blue,2,300]GREAT American Constitution [/glow] will endure far longer than we both, & in spite of all those lesser that mock it, it shall endure!

To date, thousands upon thousands have shed their precious blood, & paid the ultimate price to protect & defend it, & thousands upon thousands more will do the same along the future years to achieve the same end if necessary.

To us Americans, the Constitution is more precious than our own lives, & protecting, defending, & preserving it is worth any price, of which we will willingly pay for America & American posterity.

In all American oaths of office & service, first & foremost is a solemn pledge to protect & defend the U.S. Constitution.

Protect & defend the U.S. Constitution ................. Not the American Flag ............. Nor the Country ............... Nor it's Government.

Indeed, if the only contention to the Second Amendment was where one might be allowed to bring their lawful firearm(s), then we might just see a pinpoint of light at the end of the long, dark black tunnel. Unfortunately, some would see it quite differently, & want further restrictions. If so, any common bonds to date might just well crumble like a house of cards.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #404 – 2014-07-26, 13:19:12

Over the top stuff about the great American Constitution. It is constantly argued over and doesn't guarantee anything in practice as the government will do sneaky stuff and sometimes even stretch the law to suit itself. Just look at how long Negroes had to wait for sensible emancipation and you lot over the pond waffled on the Civil War and the black situation. Your great hero Lincoln was a liar and said things about the blacks that showed where he was at dinner parties and private meetings. Even during the 2nd World War blacks in the army were treated like dirt and contradicting all that fine stuff on the bit of paper. In fact Apartheid was practiced in the army to the point of disgusting and it wasn't until around 1948 that President Truman got round to signing a bill banning discrimination in the armed forces! Bemusing that the land of heroes, etc was fighting with us against the racist Nazis yet the US was practicing it very suitably itslef (!)The practical history of the country since over two centuries ago has been one of contradiction.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #405 – 2014-07-27, 01:29:56

[glow=blue,2,300]Our GREAT American Constitution [/glow] will endure far longer than we both, &
in spite of all

[glow=green,2,300] those lesser[/glow]

that mock & whinge endlessly about it, it shall surely endure!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #406 – 2014-07-27, 12:59:19

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-07-26, 13:19:12

Bemusing that the land of heroes, etc was fighting with us against the racist Nazis yet the US was practicing it very suitably itslef (!)The practical history of the country since over two centuries ago has been one of contradiction.

You really are a sick fuck, aren't you? I'd hate to see you walking down a US street with an automatic pistol in your hand. You are exactly the type of nut that would shoot people indiscriminately because you think that somehow you got the short end of the stick in life. Instead of America-bashing, why don't you take up a nice hobby like basket weaving--it will be good practice for the insane asylum you are headed for, where they do lots of simple things like that.

I'm sorry...it must be pretty fucked up being you, huh?

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #407 – 2014-07-27, 13:43:09

Rein yourself in a bit jseaton2311.
There's really no need for the start of your last post. You may not agree with the views of rjhowie but you can keep things civil.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #408 – 2014-07-27, 15:08:54

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-07-26, 13:19:12

ust look at how long Negroes had to wait for sensible emancipation and you lot over the pond waffled on the Civil War and the black situation.

Prior to that, there was no provision for racial equality under the in the Constitution. Following the Civil War, there were amendments added to the constitution providing for equal protection under the law among other things. Indeed discrimination did continue to exist. Some state instituted a poll tax, in the theory that black people would be less likely to be able to afford than white (in fact, the white sharecroppers weren't better off than their black counter parts.) However, that and other measures were defeated using the Constitution.

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-07-26, 13:19:12

The practical history of the country since over two centuries ago has been one of contradiction.

The overall arch of American history is all citizens being equal in the eyes of the law. Coming close to the this objective, we need to stop being so polarized in the Democrat vs Republican party politics (both sides calling the other tyrants...) and bring down the real apparatus of tyranny such as the NSA. As it was with racial unequal protection under the law, I'm confident we can do so on Constitutional grounds. In the end, the Constitution always wins. Following our success, the British government is likely to scale back its own domestic spying, the likes of which Hitler and Stalin would orgasm over. You're welcome.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #409 – 2014-07-27, 16:33:43

I wonder if Seaton actually bothered to read RJ's posts. If he had, he would know that RJHowie walking down the street with an automatic weapon isn't something that is likely to happen any time soon.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #410 – 2014-07-27, 18:24:51

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-07-27, 16:33:43

I wonder if Seaton actually bothered to read RJ's posts. If he had, he would know that RJHowie walking down the street with an automatic weapon isn't something that is likely to happen any time soon.

It was probably a fusion between rjhowie and SmileyFaze. Smiley "RJ" Faze or RJ "Smiley" Howie...
Don't like it, both deserve their own and full identity.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #411 – 2014-07-27, 19:11:40

Precisely why us Americans are blessed with the Constitutional Right, an Inalienable Right, to Keep & Bear Firearms --- to protect the rights of an RJ to say what he does -- how he does, & then to overthrow his likes when their tyrannical & totalitarian government goes way too far in practicing what he preaches.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #412 – 2014-07-27, 20:04:39

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-07-27, 16:33:43

I wonder if Seaton actually bothered to read RJ's posts. If he had, he would know that RJHowie walking down the street with an automatic weapon isn't something that is likely to happen any time soon.

Call me James. I am hardly worried about rj mowing people down with an automatic pistol in the streets of some US city. I had more of a knee-jerk reaction to the America-bashing he was expounding so judgmentally, as if he is from some haloed nation. I am appreciative of my country not because it's "the best", free from corruption or in any way perfect, but because I see my country trying.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #413 – 2014-07-27, 20:17:49

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-07-28, 03:08:54

.....no provision for racial equality under the in the Constitution......

You missed the obvious ....... The Second Amendment, among many things, provides vital protection for Racial Equality.

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eXeBbDRoNU[/VIDEO]

Use this link if the player is broken ........ The NRA was Founded to Protect Freed Slaves from the KKK

Now, whether or not there is substantiating evidence to support these statements by these renowned Black Leaders - it makes no difference, think about how the Second Amendment could & would provide a mechanism for newly freed slaves to protect & defend their rights as free men.

Keeping & Bearing Firearms might just cause the KKK, & their likes, to think twice about trying to keep the newly freed slaves from expressing their desire to exercise some of their inalienable rights as outlined in the Bill of Rights (the First 10 Amendments to the US Constitution) as free men.

The same might be said for all of us.

What do you think?

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #414 – 2014-07-28, 00:13:22

Quote from: jseaton2311 on 2014-07-27, 20:04:39

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-07-27, 16:33:43
I wonder if Seaton actually bothered to read RJ's posts. If he had, he would know that RJHowie walking down the street with an automatic weapon isn't something that is likely to happen any time soon.

Call me James. I am hardly worried about rj mowing people down with an automatic pistol in the streets of some US city. I had more of a knee-jerk reaction to the America-bashing he was expounding so judgmentally, as if he is from some haloed nation. I am appreciative of my country not because it's "the best", free from corruption or in any way perfect, but because I see my country trying.

America-bashing is what RJH does best. Eventually you consider the source and get used to it. It seems that folk from the British Islands have a hard time getting used to the idea that ex-colonialists are at least as good as they are, and if we are bad at being empire-builders we had an example to follow-- namely the British Empire.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #415 – 2014-07-28, 01:18:39

It's still a double-edged sword, though. The Second Amendment also made it difficult to keep the Klansmen away from their guns. That said, it's not the only right that's this way. Freedom of religion. Most people think of harmless denominations of Christianity, but it allows makes it difficult to go after the White Supremacist Christian Identity and the like unless they actually commit violent acts. The same freedom speech that allows for open expression of ideas such as Neo-Nazism allows for refuting it. There are many of examples I could provide, but this is sufficient to get the point across.

This larger point is that at end of the day, we need all the rights guaranteed by the Constitution. People like Howie might mock our constitution, but they can take their inbred European monarchs and shove them up their ass

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #416 – 2014-07-28, 01:50:10

Well firstly to foul-mouthed, pompusjseaton2311.

You really are a disgusting man. You came on to these forums trying to show how intelligent, controlled and astute you are but betray that right away by that reaction to me. That you need instantly to resort to foul language has only shown you for what you actually are. I prefer simple and to the point contributions without the sanctimonious tripe that you wax. Why in goodness name you resort to that kindergarten mentality regarding me walking down a street with some great loaded weapon when I have stated here and the previous Opera Forum this replaces how much I am against guns. Then you compound your inbuilt ignorance by commenting on security services here. Now there's a really big laugh. Your own country has more security services than probably any other nation in the world and all of them competing (at over the top costs to the tax payer) sometimes jostling to beat the other internal spies. Not just on the world but regular and decent Americans in their own homes, pc's, phones, whatever. Indeed you have more secret agencies than Hitler and Stalin had so you are either in a state of metal hyper or panic needs about security. Maybe you spent longer at elementary school and maybe missed the facts? If sosome allowance can be made for the lack of serious adult contribution. So look at your own because you are way ahead of dictatorships or snipe at a realer democracy. When a person has to resort to your filthy language I take exception and it betrays you as a self-righteous, sanctimonies, Neanderthal. However as an encouragement (ever an optimist), I do hope you are seeing to psychiatric help then I can make considerable allowances and progressive understanding.

On a more routine note. Can I say Sanguinemoon, you are stretching it a wee bit on that Constitution which ex-colonists have been arguing and sniping over for over 2 centuries! The hard fact that it doesn't mention race is a nonsense. If all are equal under the law that is it but your argument in fact directly allowed deliberate racial subjection and persecution for 2 centuries plus. That will cover the KKK the wide purges on blacks and their communities and rights. This kind of daft nit-picking is as bad as your legal system that dances around the full stops rather than the main issues. Sits the lawyers fine. People on death row for 17 years? What sort of country allows that torture to exist. Now you torture people to death by doubtful poisons but I suppose that is okay. You see prisoners being walked not just in handcuffs but chains. It's a vengeful system. Has no-one ever told you this is the 21st century?! It is one thing defending a Constitution but the way it is warred on raises question not just about the national and political intelligence but must frustrate the ordinary decent person over there. Too much is about vengeance rather than anything decent. Oh and before i forget it do not try and tell me that we here are worse off not having a Constitution. I am thankful because all it does over in the States is give lawyers a lot of money not help the ordinary citizen.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #417 – 2014-07-28, 06:40:29

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-07-28, 01:50:10

If all are equal under the law that is it but your argument in fact directly allowed deliberate racial subjection and persecution for 2 centuries plus.

But Irish subjectation by the British is justifiable? Cromwell's invasion of Ireland, which eventually lost Ireland half its population was okay? How about some potato famine? How about the British treatment of the locals in India? You can't pretend British history is any less dark than American, but the darkness went on longer. American law enforcement cracked down on the KKK and all but drove them out of existence, except for a few scattered, impotent groups. Using the Constitution, all races are guaranteed equal protection under the law. Yes, it was a long process, but now all men are equal under the law.

I wonder if the British would have treated the blacks any differently, if they had as many as Americans did. Even British history, you folks probably would have treated them worse than we did - letting Ireland starve (at least those two times I mentioned), taking Indian land just to grow tea so you can sip it with your stiff upper lips like a bunch of panty-wastes. This isn't to say modern British are like this, but your anti-Americanism blinded you to what your country did in the past. At least we have written constitution, protected under glass, to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #418 – 2014-07-28, 11:52:07

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-07-28, 01:13:22

It seems that folk from the British Islands have a hard time getting used to the idea that ex-colonialists are at least as good as they are,

Don't tar all of us with the same brush mjmsprt40.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #419 – 2014-07-28, 12:37:27

There's truth on both sides of the debate here, as well as exaggerations, the main difference being that some people are more polite about it than others. I'll re-phrase that -- some people are even more rude about it than others.

It's also true that some people are too happy to search their tainted history books to find their insults.

I apologise profusely for anything my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandfather is reported to have done.

By the way, SF, while we're on the subject of insults, isn't it time you removed my name from the last option on your poll?

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #420 – 2014-07-28, 12:59:09

Quote from: string on 2014-07-28, 12:37:27

my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandfather

Twenty eight generations, I counted it.

At twenty five years in average equals seven hundred years, the fourteen century. What were you doing then? One hundred years war? certainly not massacring New World natives yet.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #421 – 2014-07-28, 15:10:49

The answer is that I don't know, I can count directly back 27 generations (no kidding) until the first of my name who lived at the end of the 11th century and into the twelfth (10 something to 11 something), so that's as far as I can apologise for.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #422 – 2014-07-28, 15:58:07

Quote from: string on 2014-07-28, 15:10:49

The answer is that I don't know, I can count directly back 27 generations (no kidding) until the first of my name who lived at the end of the 11th century and into the twelfth (10 something to 11 something), so that's as far as I can apologise for.

I doubt your grand fathers to want you to apologize for them.
I'm sure mine certainly don't so I do not.

Directly until the eleven century... that's a solid linage, congratulations.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #423 – 2014-07-28, 17:40:03

Usual Irish-American stuff rom Sanguinemoon of course. May I inform you that there was also a potato famine in Scotland? Furthermore are you daft enough to want to suggest that Britain somehow poisened the potato? Eveb Irish historians away from the emotional reaction of Irish-Americans have questioned figures so the problem was in 2 countries. Shame it takes a bit away from you. The unfortunate ignorance of the Irish was not all Britain;s fault. Irish landowners were far from concerned about their own peasants and the Church was the controlling influence. The 1797 rebellion brought a stench of hypocrisy from the men in black. Black flags with MWS on them in stark white letters. That stood for 'Murder without sin' as the Roman Church regarded Protestants as heretics so they could be massacred and they did that okay.

Even after 1922 the Church still ruled the roost and when people were starving they would go the priest homes and beg for food as the men in black had plenty to eat. Trying get hekp from the SVDP was like begging on your knees.

The comment about how we would have dealt with the Negroes is interesting and I say that for two reasons. We banned slavery before you did and sent the navy out to see what could be done while you lot dragged your heels. In World War 2 when American troops came here to be based they were shocked and disgusted because when at dance was the British girls danced freely with black US soldiers. Why did it take you so long to deal with racism in the military? You bleat about a constitution but Negroes you try to claim were outside of that even though I pointed out everyone is supposed to be equal so that is a contradiction of the bit of wonderful paper. All the claims about the land of the free and principles and the other chest thumping stuff is a fairy tale. It is hardly surprising that the majority of those in jail are black after their treatment for over 2 centuries. What a country when the Apartheid was standard practice not only in society but even in the military tradition.

Instead of trying to avoid the disgraceful history of a land that beats out to the world on principles, freedoms, rights it has all been one long damn lie. Disgusting and arch hypocritical. You would have been better not chest thumping and flag waving.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #424 – 2014-07-28, 20:47:08

I'll side with RJH about the slavery issue, anyway. British warships did what they could to halt the slave trade as early as the 1820s, probably earlier. Intercepting a slaver wasn't an easy task since the slave-runners favored small, speedy and highly maneuverable ships like the Baltimore Clippers, but the British-- and the French-- navies did what they could to stop them.

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Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to own, carry, & use Firearms to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends?