Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Topic: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms? (Read 334945 times)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #275 – 2014-06-13, 05:52:31

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-06-12, 20:08:51

Your right there String & you might not have realized it........Yes, I think that even though many adults & children will never use or own a firearm, firearm safety & the proper handling of firearms should be a required course of study in every grammar school, high school, & university....as should be CPR.

Yup. Gonna need CPR after you do everything your power to keep it easy for criminals and lunatics to get guns, huh? You guys are enabling those people to get guns and don't even realize it in your paranoia. Tap on an app on your phone, enter the buyer's info and it's done.

In fact, this protects the buyer in the event that the gun is used in a crime by creating the record that you so fear. Think law enforcement doesn't attempt to trace the serial number of recovered weapons used in crimes now? Murderer steals a gun or buys it person to person from a non-criminal. He shoots someone and tries to hide the gun. The police find the gun. After running the gun's serial number, it's traced back to the non-criminal. Guess who's the number on suspect now? Hopefully his alibi checks out, but it's disturbing to read how many people were executed in the US that were later found to be innocent. You think that person to person background checks are a threat to a non-criminal sell, if anything the checks exonerate them of crimes committed with the weapon.

Quote

The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, which was said by some to have been inserted to protect the First Amendment, by no means gave, or gives today, Government any right whatsoever to pass any regulations on the citizens it is hired to serve regarding keeping & bearing firearms.

you still miss the words "well regulated." Still picking and choosing what you want from the constitution, while ignoring everything else, are we? The "constitutional" Rightest rank among the least informed about the document or basic civics. Guns can't be banned outright, but can be regulated.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #276 – 2014-06-13, 09:45:17

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-06-13, 17:52:31

In fact, this protects the buyer in the event that the gun is used in a crime by creating the record that you so fear. Think law enforcement doesn't attempt to trace the serial number of recovered weapons used in crimes now? Murderer steals a gun or buys it person to person from a non-criminal. He shoots someone and tries to hide the gun. The police find the gun. After running the gun's serial number, it's traced back to the non-criminal. Guess who's the number on suspect now? Hopefully his alibi checks out, but it's disturbing to read how many people were executed in the US that were later found to be innocent. You think that person to person background checks are a threat to a non-criminal sell, if anything the checks exonerate them of crimes committed with the weapon.

I thought I heard it all, but that pile of horseshit takes top prize!!!! Now, I really have heard it all!!!!!

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-06-13, 17:52:31

you still miss the words "well regulated."......

And you still cant comprehend the plethora of documentation provided by Constitutional experts & historians on what the phrase actually means.

It brings a broad smile to my face every time one of your leftist progressives make claims that it means otherwise, & then they crash & burn when proven so wrong.

Ignoring it's actual documented meaning as you do, wont make it magically change to mean otherwise, mean what you want it to, or mean what it doesn't mean.

A "well regulated militia" means every able bodied American of age, having enough training to be effective in the use of a firearm

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #277 – 2014-06-13, 12:06:51

So, Smiley, are you part of a militia? I mean, an outfit that conducts regular field drills, has officers that you have to answer to and so on? I don't mean just that you possess an arsenal and you've been to the firing range a couple of times, I mean actually belonging to a militia.

Your handy-dandy definition does not apply, most Chicago street-gangs could fit that definition with relative ease-- and probably shoot your http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Donkey_1_arp_750px.jpg off if you came to town, too.

I mean, a regular, bona fide, gotta take orders militia.

These days, it seems the state National Guard posts fulfill the traditional "militia" rolls, from what I gather. Your random collection of gun-nuts really don't, you're just about the most resistant to regulation bunch I've clapped eyes on and the idea of you turning out for field drills--- almost laughable. That would mean somebody else-- perish the thought, maybe a state official-- would have to know how much of what you've got, so he could know what resources he had in case of attack. Can't have a state official knowing squat, now can we? Not even if he IS your militia commanding officer.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #278 – 2014-06-13, 12:33:29

I think this is relevant

In 2008 the Supreme Court concluded

"the Court recognized that the government can regulate gun rights. The Court said its decision should not be interpreted to question the right of government to: prohibit felons and the mentally ill from owning weapons, prohibit guns in schools or public buildings, ban certain categories of guns not commonly used for self-defense, and to establish certain other conditions on gun ownership."

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #279 – 2014-06-13, 16:43:19

All Americans who are sound SmileyFaze? There seems to be an awful lot of poor mindset considering you kill each other in 5 figures annually, schools get shoot-outs, colleges, places where people gather. It is not surprising that the head shrinkers are big business in the ex-colonies. The nutjobs even pervade the army and just shows that even after two centuries plus you haven't grown up yet. Who would want to imitate a country that is bananas over guns??

Dear, oh dear.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #280 – 2014-06-13, 23:11:02

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-14, 00:06:51

So, Smiley, are you part of a militia?

Not by your definition. The wanna be regulators & gun-grabbers insist, erroneously, that the only valid "Militia" is the National Guard, but we all know that's only wishful thinking on their part....They don't like the definition, well then they change the definition(s) to suit their leftist agenda(s) claiming "it's a changing world, so definitions must change....". Isn't that convenient, & some head in their asses Americans follow blindly out of emotion.

As was defined in the 18th Century, & the only valid definition when defining the meaning of an 18 Century Document, the Militia is every able bodied American man who is of age.

I am the Militia, you are the Militia, & together we all are the Militia.

Don't like that, that's too bad, go pass a Constitutional Amendment, & change the definitions to suit you.

As for any so called "organized" Militias, they can fit the criteria, but membership in them is not required to be part of the Militia.

We are all part of the Militia, provided we are of age, & are able bodied.

No uniforms or titles required.

Us Pro- Second Amendment gun-owners will never become merely slaves with privileges, instead of citizens with rights!

Again, don't like that, that's too bad, go pass a Constitutional Amendment with words that suit you.....till then, suck it up princess, it is what it is.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #281 – 2014-06-13, 23:37:25

[glow=black,2,300]VICTORY:[/glow] [glow=black,2,300]Nebraska Passes Major Pro-Gun Bill[/glow]

Not exactly breaking news, but it represents the trend across the nation:

Quote from: http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/ne-passes-pro-gun-bill/

There are a number of states that are pushing back against the progressive left’s anti-gun agenda.

Numerous states are standing up to the federal government by nullifying gun control measures within their borders.

Many other states, from Arizona to West Virginia, are passing pro-gun legislation that restores and expands the rights of gun owners.

Nebraska has joined that list now that Governor Dave Heineman signed Legislative Bill 699 into law, which will make positive changes to the gun laws of the state. The law will take effect immediately due to an “emergency” clause.......

........ LB 699 repeals an outdated state firearms statute and brings state law into conformity with federal law by allowing Nebraska residents to purchase long guns in non-contiguous states. This long-overdue reform will align Nebraska with forty other states that already allow their residents to purchase rifles and shotguns in non-contiguous states, provided that the purchase or transfer complies with state and federal law. LB 699 repeals this antiquated restriction, allowing Nebraska residents the freedom to purchase long guns in states beyond their immediate borders.

LB 699 also requires the reporting of records of persons unable to purchase or possess firearms due to a federal mental health disqualification — adjudicated mentally deficient or involuntarily committed to a mental institution — to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and changes provisions related to hunting licenses and hunter education programs. Nebraska still retains a strong restoration of rights provision for those who have been involuntarily hospitalized or have been adjudicated mentally deficient, providing the ability for relief through an application process to the court system, allowing for restoration of gun rights.............continued

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #282 – 2014-06-14, 00:03:51

No. I didn't just read that. It's impossible that any sentient being could ---- no, it's not possible.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #283 – 2014-06-14, 01:34:18

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-06-13, 23:11:02

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-14, 00:06:51
So, Smiley, are you part of a militia?

Not by your definition. The wanna be regulators & gun-grabbers insist, erroneously, that the only valid "Militia" is the National Guard, but we all know that's only wishful thinking on their part....They don't like the definition, well then they change the definition(s) to suit their leftist agenda(s) claiming "it's a changing world, so definitions must change....". Isn't that convenient, & some head in their asses Americans follow blindly out of emotion.

As was defined in the 18th Century, & the only valid definition when defining the meaning of an 18 Century Document, the Militia is every able bodied American man who is of age.

I am the Militia, you are the Militia, & together we all are the Militia.

Don't like that, that's too bad, go pass a Constitutional Amendment, & change the definitions to suit you.

As for any so called "organized" Militias, they can fit the criteria, but membership in them is not required to be part of the Militia.

We are all part of the Militia, provided we are of age, & are able bodied.

No uniforms or titles required.

Us Pro- Second Amendment gun-owners will never become merely slaves with privileges, instead of citizens with rights!

Again, don't like that, that's too bad, go pass a Constitutional Amendment with words that suit you.....till then, suck it up princess, it is what it is.

You do know the Revolutionary War ended in 1783, more then a couple years ago, right? You're trying to use definitions more than 200 years old that no longer fit. In 1973, the draft ended in favor of an all volunteer military. Welcome to the 21st century, where just because you're over the age of 18 doesn't mean you're part of the militia. That time is long over.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #284 – 2014-06-14, 03:21:11

Sanguinemoon said:

In 1973, the draft ended in favor of an all volunteer military. Welcome to the 21st century, where just because you're over the age of 18 doesn't mean you're part of the militia. That time is long over.

Indeed, since 2009 the sovereignty of the United States has -by the current executive administration- been doubted, denigrated, and -yes, friends, it's true: dhimmi-ized… (Although Mexicalification is rightly seen, in some environs, as the more immanent threat!) There is no "America," according to these 'true believers' in — whatever: There is only the eventual uprising of the oppressed! (Marx couldn't be wrong! Right?

)
Well, such may find that there is indeed a militia… The Oops! moment of the intelligentsia will go down in history as another Cinco de Mayo, a PR event that -in the end- makes no difference. But the quiet preparedness of denizens acclimated to freedom in these United States will have their say, and keep their ancient rights.
Sanguinemoon will benefit, however much he complains.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #285 – 2014-06-14, 06:35:43

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2014-06-14, 03:21:11

But the quiet preparedness of denizens acclimated to freedom in these United States will have their say, and keep their ancient rights.
Sanguinemoon will benefit, however much he complains.

What quiet preparedness would that be? It's been replaced by consumer culture decades ago. Once again, nobody is trying to take away existing rights. It's about finding out criminals and lunatic get their guns and reducing the availability of weapons to people such as the Millers. Smiley doesn't understand this, but we're actually on the same side. The only way I can see preventing more draconian measures in the future is to allow universal background checks. The only way to have interstate gun sales without opening up the "gun ownership opportunities" for lunatics and criminals is a centralized database in combination UBCs.

Think of it this way. Anarchy is often replaced by despotism. For an obvious example, look at the French Revolution and the dictator that followed. Napoleon was able to provide order, but he was a tyrant. So now tearing down existing gun regulation, most of which is common sense, will (not can) make it easier for people like the Millers to acquire weapons. Eventually, the people will have had enough and demand stronger regulation.

The Blaze of all places notes that gun ownership rates in the US having declining for decades, from a peak of 53% in 1973 to 32% and if anything the rate seems to be accelerating. SF might say something about the gun sales in the wake of possible regulation, but these seem to be to existing gun owners.

To put it all together, time is not on the NRA and their puppet Members of Congress and Representative’s side. Quit pretending sensible gun regulation, such as universal background checks, are a "gun grab" and let them go through - before something worse happens.

Come to think of it, the NRA is gun abolisher's best friend. They make the gun owners look and sound like raving lunatics that will answer a school shooting by allowing anyone into a school with a gun, as opposed to exploring ways to keep guns out of schools (better security, metal detectors built into the doors, etc.) Talk about being your own worst enemy. I support the right for law abiding, mentally sound citizens to own guns. I'm just saying we need better ways to make sure people buying guns fall into that category, since known White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis like the Millers can get them easily. To find his worst enemy, Smiley and people like him only need look in the mirror.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #286 – 2014-06-14, 18:21:30

"We are all part of the militia". What utter codswallop that kind of thinking is. Based on the attitude expressed behind that is almost like Anarchistic. If that is supposed to be the case then the ten plus thousand a year mowed down shows how completely hopeless America is. The place is awash with guns and shows how immature, politcal inept and bokkers the place has become. Nothing to compare with what their founders wanted at all even though i didn't agree with them. The complete juvenile mentality profligates like mad over there and all carefully arranged by the big money men who seel the stuff yo the adults with child mindsets. A million in uniform and still the gun poppers use an 19th century situation for modern day. It has only made things damn worse and it is just as well the psychiatry industry abounds in great numbers.

Why would a militia be needed with such a big military? The country spends about half the world total of armamnents and each war it starts it ends up making money for the corporates afterwards. When you look at the gun situation in the USA and how it blunders across the globe causing mayhem and arrogance whilst a killing spree back home you couldn't make this up. Small wonder the US has supported so many rightist dictatorships they can sell guns to as well. The Constitution has been hijacked by child minds meant to be adults. The country is awash with the gun crowd and the anti-social aspects and crime wash that go with it. Unbelievable for a modern society and only dictators would want to copy it not sensible people. If finance doesn't collapse it the internal social and sense weaknesses will.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #287 – 2014-06-14, 21:24:17

Sanguine, you give the same old song and dance! And, if you're asked where your preferred prescription has been profitably enacted, your perennial reply is: Why, not widely enough! A city, a county, a state are too limiting for sensible regulation. Indeed, a nation may be!
You want control -- both senses apply.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #288 – 2014-06-14, 22:39:26

If I am, indeed, part of the militia, then I fully expect to be answerable to somebody.

So, who is my commanding officer? Who do I report to? Come on, somebody knows--- after all, that's the way a proper militia does things you know. There's a chain of command, somebody in charge of mustering the troops in time of emergency if nothing else. Otherwise, you haven't got a militia. You just got a collection of odds and ends that might or might not be there when you need them, might or might not have the appropriate weaponry and sufficient ammo for those weapons, might or might not be able to hit the broad side of a barn from inside the barn, and most certainly will have trouble working with other militiamen because-- oh, I know you won't believe this-- because most of us "militiamen" have never, ever trained together.

What kind of "militia" is this, anyway? To me, and to a fair number of others, it looks suspiciously like a bunch of NRA fanatics who worship guns as gods, and can't understand that their neighbors don't share their fondness for and worship of guns. Sorry, but-- if it looks like religion, talks like religion and behaves like religion, there's a good chance that it's a religion. In this case, one that bows down to guns.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #289 – 2014-06-15, 00:01:19

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-15, 10:39:26

If I am, indeed, part of the militia, then I fully expect to be answerable to somebody........

[glow=blue,2,300]YOU are the Militia............ [/glow]You're only answerable to yourself, the guy you're fighting next to, & your Creator (if your a lost soul, only the first 2 apply .... for the time being that is)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #290 – 2014-06-15, 11:31:17

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-06-15, 00:01:19

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-15, 10:39:26
If I am, indeed, part of the militia, then I fully expect to be answerable to somebody........

[glow=blue,2,300]YOU are the Militia............ [/glow]You're only answerable to yourself, the guy you're fighting next to, & your Creator (if your a lost soul, only the first 2 apply .... for the time being that is)

I told ya this was a weird "militia"! Every last one of the crackpots that went into schools, theaters and shopping malls, shooting the place up and killing a bunch of people, could have used that definition of "militia". The Millers almost certainly did. Answerable to nobody but yourself, whatever weird idea pops into your skull goes unchallenged and you carry out the orders issued by yourself only--- and God help your neighbors. After all, if you're in full-metal Katsung mode, your neighbors are all spies for the Feds anyway.

No, no, no and a thousand times no. Such a definition of "militia" will never do. Militias have chains of command, most proper ones have-- oh, I know you won't believe this-- armories where the weapons and ammo are kept, responsibility and a paper-trail for that responsibility and so on.

So, now I'm a militia. All by myself, answerable to me only-- and God, if it shall be that He makes His desires known. I tol' ya, this is one strange "militia".

Well, lets see here. I have a pocket knife and a couple of hammers. Not much as weapons, but it's a start. Pretty poor showing for a "militia", but not bad for a driver who uses the pocket knife to cut plastic wrap and the hammers to persuade boards to either join together or come apart.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #291 – 2014-06-15, 14:33:24

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2014-06-14, 21:24:17

Sanguine, you give the same old song and dance! And, if you're asked where your preferred prescription has been profitably enacted, your perennial reply is: Why, not widely enough! A city, a county, a state are too limiting for sensible regulation. Indeed, a nation may be!
You want control -- both senses apply.

It's not about control. It's about effectiveness. Chicago tried to ban guns, not constitutional of them and going as overboard as the NRA, just in the opposite direction. Why didn't it work? It's documented that the criminals simply had their gun mules go to the suburbs. Nevada tries to have more sensible measure, such a background checks at gunshows. It's a quick trip from Las Vegas across the state line to Arizona.

Funny you should talk about control when you vote for a party that historically and in recent history tried to use state power to enforce their social agenda. Everytime a Republican bitches about "control" he's a hypocrite. A real libertarian, as opposed to the false self-proclaimed ones, has a basis to make that argument. A Republican, no.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #292 – 2014-06-15, 14:40:42

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-06-15, 00:01:19

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-15, 10:39:26
If I am, indeed, part of the militia, then I fully expect to be answerable to somebody........

[glow=blue,2,300]YOU are the Militia............ [/glow]You're only answerable to yourself, the guy you're fighting next to, & your Creator (if your a lost soul, only the first 2 apply .... for the time being that is)

A "well regulated"militia as a command structure. Mjmsprt40, nor anybody else, can't proclaim himself a militia. As military units, a "well regulated" militia would be answerable to the President, as per the constitution. Sure, there are groups that proclaim themselves "militias" but not being answering to anyone but themselves, they are not "well regulated." The reason I keep repeating that phrase from the second amendment is that you guys don't get that part.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #293 – 2014-06-15, 14:41:07

I remember reading the written papers by our founders on the 2nd Amendment. They wrote that the amendment is to protect the people against a national army, despotic power, using local organized militias. The papers were quite obvious the right to arms were because of the need to arm local militias.

The NRA has part of the 2nd Amendment engraved on their building. They left the part about "militias" out of their engraving.

Guns can obviously restricted. Many states have gun control laws which are legal. That is why the NRA goes into paroxysm with threats to politicians because they damn well know laws to restrict guns can be passed.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #294 – 2014-06-15, 16:51:18

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-06-15, 14:40:42

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-06-15, 00:01:19

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-15, 10:39:26
If I am, indeed, part of the militia, then I fully expect to be answerable to somebody........

[glow=blue,2,300]YOU are the Militia............ [/glow]You're only answerable to yourself, the guy you're fighting next to, & your Creator (if your a lost soul, only the first 2 apply .... for the time being that is)
A "well regulated"militia as a command structure. Mjmsprt40, nor anybody else, can't proclaim himself a militia. As military units, a "well regulated" militia would be answerable to the President, as per the constitution. Sure, there are groups that proclaim themselves "militias" but not being answering to anyone but themselves, they are not "well regulated." The reason I keep repeating that phrase from the second amendment is that you guys don't get that part.

The difference, I think, is that I know that I can't proclaim myself a "militia", I'm not at all sure that Smiley has realized that yet. A one-man "militia", answerable only to himself, is a terrifying concept and one which sane people should be resistant to.

Citizens banding together because their community is under attack or is threatened with attack--OK, that concept of "militia" can be grasped. Somebody will be in charge, somebody will have an idea of what to do next, and if the citizens need to gather together to learn how to work together to defend the community against the coming assault, there will be a structure to make that happen. The type of "militia" which Smiley is promoting is no such thing, it's just the individual declaring himself to be sovereign in his own right.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #295 – 2014-06-15, 19:02:15

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-15, 16:51:18

Citizens banding together because their community is under attack or is threatened with attack--OK, that concept of "militia" can be grasped. Somebody will be in charge, somebody will have an idea of what to do next, and if the citizens need to gather together to learn how to work together to defend the community against the coming assault, there will be a structure to make that happen. The type of "militia" which Smiley is promoting is no such thing, it's just the individual declaring himself to be sovereign in his own right.

I don't think Smiley disagrees that a well-regulated militia is, as you say, a disciplined and trained unit. It seems to me that he mostly thinks the training should be done on an individual basis, although I would think that there is slightly more to training as a militia than merely knowing how to handle a weapon. Interestingly, Wikipedia alerted me that Alexander Hamilton proposed yearly mandatory training just like in Switzerland.

Quote from: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Federalist_Papers/No._29

Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the People at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped; and in order to see that this be not neglected, it will be necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of a year.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #296 – 2014-06-15, 20:13:27

OK, the Switzerland/Alexander Hamilton idea at least makes some sort of sense. The idea of the able-bodied men in the community training together works.

Of course, that leaves a basic problem. That problem is that I live in a suburb of Chicago. When, exactly, have we heard of recent attacks on Villa Park, Illinois that would require the citizens to form a militia to defend it? Against whom? Have the natives of Glendale Heights been getting restless again? At the time of Hamilton, we had small towns that had to defend against Indians. Switzerland is a small country, and while not presently being threatened the fact remains that in order to field a credible army they have to train every man who can carry a weapon. Israel is reputed to be training every able-bodied man, and in that case the country is surrounded by enemies who would be glad to push Israel into the sea if they get the chance.

Here, we have Mexico to the South and Canada to our North. Neither of these countries appear to be mounting armed aggression against us. Last time we tangled with Mexico it was before the Civil War, and the time we tangled with Canada-- maybe the Canadians needed to band together to defend against us, seems there was a bit of a land-grab planned during the War of 1812. But, since those incidents--- I reckon my pocket knife and couple of hammers will handle all the threat these two countries presently offer. Nobody else offers a credible threat that a civilian militia is likely to be much good against.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #297 – 2014-06-15, 20:51:13

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-16, 04:51:18

The difference, I think, is that I know that I can't proclaim myself a "militia", I'm not at all sure that Smiley has realized that yet. A one-man "militia", answerable only to himself, is a terrifying concept and one which sane people should be resistant to.

Citizens banding together because their community is under attack or is threatened with attack--OK, that concept of "militia" can be grasped. Somebody will be in charge, somebody will have an idea of what to do next, and if the citizens need to gather together to learn how to work together to defend the community against the coming assault, there will be a structure to make that happen. The type of "militia" which Smiley is promoting is no such thing, it's just the individual declaring himself to be sovereign in his own right.

I get your point, & to a point I agree.

You seem to need a Militia to be a structured entity, one with an elected or designated leader/chain of command.

If you recall the definition I used was:

Quote

[glow=blue,2,300]YOU are the Militia............ [/glow] You're only answerable to yourself,[shadow=grey,right] the guy you're fighting next to,[/shadow] & your Creator (if your a lost soul, only the first 2 apply .... for the time being that is)

You simply need to incorporate the other part of my definition too ........... [shadow=grey,right] the guy you're fighting next to [/shadow] ..........into the equation.

Maybe a hypothetical example would clarify it better:

Your community is under attack.

The call goes out for all to gather & secure their firearm(s) & meet at the public high school in your neighborhood.

You are the Militia, but until you join up with another/others you are alone.

Once you join up with others, you are still the Militia--always were, but now this group has formed, & combined they are the Militia ...... [shadow=grey,right]answerable now to the others they are banding with.[/shadow]

Depending on the size of the group collectively they, as would normally be the case, decide to choose one person to lead them.

They could even go as far as selecting roles for others in this combined Militia.

If & when they go into battle, they now will not be fighting as individuals for the most part, but as a team under the leadership of the person or persons they chose. All the while you are answerable to those you fight beside -- & they as individuals answerable to you, as well as answerable to the others, & collectively all of them will be answerable to those chosen to lead.

BTW.....if these once strangers, but now band of brothers gather often, the chosen leaders may stay the same or they could change depending solely on the will of the group.

They may even decide to train together to better their overall function & performance.

This is (or was) known as regulating.

A simple, & effective concept.

I hope this clarification helps further illuminate the concept of Militia for you.

Mike, just remember one thing.......[glow=blue,2,300]throughout this simple example, you always were, & you always are the Militia. [/glow]

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #298 – 2014-06-15, 20:58:24

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-06-15, 20:51:13

Mike, just remember one thing.......throughout this simple example, you were, & always are the Militia.

I don't know. That sounds a bit like my hand was and always will be me. I think that without the rest of my body, it's just a hand.

I believe in Latin it is something like one miles (soldier), two miletes (soldiers), and a certain number of miletes forms a militia. I realize that pointing at etymology can be a rather silly endeavor if the meaning of the word changed, but I don't believe it has.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #299 – 2014-06-15, 21:09:18

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-06-15, 06:33:24

It's not about control. It's about effectiveness.

Utopians (Progressives) usually prate about 'effectiveness'… And how, if only they were in control, there would be enough! Eventually.
Would you also support the Precautionary Principle?

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Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to own, carry, & use Firearms to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends?