The DnD Sanctuary

These new teaching methods. In my day it used to be detention, now it's learn or die.

The Crazies are cowards anyway,...

Wrong. The most sure thing you can say about the crazies is that they are crazy.

Guns do not make a nation safer, say US doctors who have compared the rate of firearms-related deaths in countries where many people own guns with the death rate in countries where gun ownership is rare.[/quote]

It's like this . . .  If you ensure that everyone has a telephone then the number of telephone calls will increase, if you ensure that everyone has drugs then drug use will go up, if thou let everyone have guns then ......  well it's obvious is it not!

I think you'll find some answers in this article and the report to which it refers:
High gun ownership makes countries less safe, US study finds (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/gun-ownership-gun-deaths-study)

Quote

Guns do not make a nation safer, say US doctors who have compared the rate of firearms-related deaths in countries where many people own guns with the death rate in countries where gun ownership is rare.[/quote]

It's like this . . .  If you ensure that everyone has a telephone then the number of telephone calls will increase, if you ensure that everyone has drugs then drug use will go up, if thou let everyone have guns then ......  well it's obvious is it not!

+1

Agreed

Any society where access to guns is not regulated at least on the level of drivers licenses is insane.

Er-- ahhhh--- If you could see some of the stuff I see, you'd wonder how some of these folk-- including "professional" truck drivers-- ever got drivers licenses. When you get passed on a snow and black-ice covered road by an 18-wheeler who is trying to do the posted speed when maintaining forward motion is driving too fast for conditions, you just know that they're giving out driver's licenses a little too easily. Frightening thought: that driver may be licensed to be able to conceal-carry as well.

The Poll is somewhat dysfunctional because it uses a heavily loaded question. With that in mind I would have voted for a beer but unfortunately that option requires me to continue pondering the basic insanity which is that everyone lives in a place where a lack of firearm regulation has apparently allowed gangs dripping with armament to flourish.

Quote from: string on 2014-01-06, 17:40:43

I think you'll find some answers in this article and the report to which it refers:
High gun ownership makes countries less safe, US study finds (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/gun-ownership-gun-deaths-study)

Quote

Guns do not make a nation safer, say US doctors who have compared the rate of firearms-related deaths in countries where many people own guns with the death rate in countries where gun ownership is rare.

It's like this . . .  If you ensure that everyone has a telephone then the number of telephone calls will increase, if you ensure that everyone has drugs then drug use will go up, if thou let everyone have guns then ......  well it's obvious is it not!


+1

Agreed

....“International evidence and comparisons have long been offered as proof of the mantra that more guns mean more deaths and that fewer guns, therefore, mean fewer deaths. Unfortunately, such discussions [have] all too often been afflicted by misconceptions and factual error and focus on comparisons that are unrepresentative,” ..........

…the burden of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra. To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world......

In the 46-page study........... Kates and Mauser looked at and compared data from the U.S. and parts of Europe to show that stricter laws don’t mean there is less crime......

A federal judge on Monday overturned Chicago's ban on the sale and transfer of firearms, ruling that the city's ordinances aimed at reducing gun violence are unconstitutional.

U.S. District Judge Edmond E. Chang said in his ruling that while the government has a duty to protect its citizens, it's also obligated to protect constitutional rights, including the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense..........

National Rifle Association lobbyist Todd Vandermyde applauded Chang's decision, saying the fact a federal judge appointed by President Barack Obama "ruled in favor of the Second Amendment, shows how out of step and outrageous Chicago's ordinances really are." .........Continued

...... they go to those places not because it's "gun free," but because that where people congregate. If somebody's that insane, the thought another person might be armed might not even cross their deranged brain.

.........What SF is also not considering is that the insane mass shooters often want to die. They create the situation knowing full well they won't survive. I guess he never heard of "suicide by cop" , either.

What do you "Gun Grabbers" think about that wonderful news?

If one is committing suicide, it doesn't mean he's  brave in the face of death. It means mental illness or series of incidents has driven them to that point. I guess I have to repeat to you that the mass shootings are often killer's suicide.

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-01-07, 05:47:17

the shooters you know oh so well -- how many ever chose a shooting range to do his/their deadly deeds in?

Often they go to places that are meaningful to them. Why open fire at a Batman movie wearing a Joker outfit? Because the killer identified with Joker. You're trying to approach this as if  mass shooters are rational, socially adjusted individuals. They're not. The "Gun Free Zones" are an attempt to reduce crime and violence by more sane people. Take down that "Gun Free" sign and I guarantee most of the mass shooters will still go to the same places because 1) If they're suicidal they know the police will arrive shortly to gun them down and 2) Again, the go after places and people that are meaningful for them in a positive or negative way. The teenage mass killers would have had to go the gun range previously and likely would have had to bullied there. They wouldn't have been allowed in because of their age without their parents for that to have happened.  Have you really forgotten that the school shooters are minors (average age, 16)

Often they go to places that are meaningful to them. Why open fire at a Batman movie wearing a Joker outfit? Because the killer identified with Joker. You're trying to approach this as if  mass shooters are rational, socially adjusted individuals. They're not. The "Gun Free Zones" are an attempt to reduce crime and violence by more sane people. Take down that "Gun Free" sign and I guarantee most of the mass shooters will still go to the same places because 1) If they're suicidal they know the police will arrive shortly to gun them down and 2) Again, the go after places and people that are meaningful for them in a positive or negative way. The teenage mass killers would have had to go the gun range previously and likely would have had to bullied there. They wouldn't have been allowed in because of their age without their parents for that to have happened.  Have you really forgotten that the school shooters are minors (average age, 16)

In consequence of the vile attack that Southern European countries are suffering, my position, contrarily to what I defended at the D&D version of this same thread, is that all citizens have the right to be armed.

Probably, more than a right, it's a duty. These are not times of peace.

Quote from: ersi on 2014-01-06, 12:30:29

Any society where access to guns is not regulated at least on the level of drivers licenses is insane.

Er-- ahhhh--- If you could see some of the stuff I see, you'd wonder how some of these folk-- including "professional" truck drivers-- ever got drivers licenses. When you get passed on a snow and black-ice covered road by an 18-wheeler who is trying to do the posted speed when maintaining forward motion is driving too fast for conditions, you just know that they're giving out driver's licenses a little too easily. Frightening thought: that driver may be licensed to be able to conceal-carry as well.

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-01-06, 20:37:40

Er-- ahhhh--- If you could see some of the stuff I see, you'd wonder how some of these folk-- including "professional" truck drivers-- ever got drivers licenses. When you get passed on a snow and black-ice covered road by an 18-wheeler who is trying to do the posted speed when maintaining forward motion is driving too fast for conditions, you just know that they're giving out driver's licenses a little too easily. Frightening thought: that driver may be licensed to be able to conceal-carry as well.

Please don't tar all truck drivers with the same brush.  My husband drives truck and NEVER drives too fast for conditions - it's insane to do so with an 18 wheeler and those who do earn scorn and disgust from good truck drivers as well.  If the weather is really poor, he won't drive at all.  Period.  Some truck drivers are exemplary and deserve respect - same with some car drivers.

Blame the schools who give those poor drivers truck driving licenses.  There used to be one here who gave out truck driving licenses to drivers who could NOT back up with a 53 foot trailer in tow.  It is now, thankfully, out of business due to complaints.

Back on thread: I wondered if Smiley was gonna pick up on what the judge said about Chicago's gun laws........

“Today’s ruling is a vindication of the constitutional freedoms of Chicago’s law-abiding citizens,” said Chris W. Cox, Executive Director of the NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action in a released statement. “Chicago’s continued refusal to follow the U.S. Supreme Court’s clear directive in its landmark ruling in McDonald v. City of Chicago (http://tinyurl.com/n3hbqme) is unacceptable, and the NRA will continue to challenge the city until it fully respects the right of its law-abiding residents to keep and bear arms.”

"Gun Free Zones" kill innocent people.....they are just as much to blame for the death & carnage as the killers that pull their murderous triggers in them.

Your response to my post, though I do believe you honestly do believe in what you say, is the biggest ration of bullshit  I have ever read in my long life, & probably the biggest load of bullshit anyone could have ever offered up.

........'Gun-free zones' have been the most popular response to previous mass killings. But many law-enforcement officials say they are actually counterproductive. “Guns are already banned in schools. That is why the shootings happen in schools. A school is a ‘helpless-victim zone,’” says Richard Mack, a former Arizona sheriff. “Preventing any adult at a school from having access to a firearm eliminates any chance the killer can be stopped in time to prevent a rampage,” Jim Kouri, the public-information officer of the National Association of Chiefs of Police, told me earlier this year at the time of the Aurora, Colo., Batman-movie shooting. Indeed, there have been many instances — from the high-school shooting by Luke Woodham in Mississippi, to the New Life Church shooting in Colorado Springs, Colo. — where a killer has been stopped after someone got a gun from a parked car or elsewhere and confronted the shooter...........continued

Quote from: string in that other Forum

These new teaching methods. In my day it used to be detention, now it's learn or die.

Oh, how I wish I'd had that option when I taught.:)

This is just one more case of media hype. One state, Utah, is teaching teachers to kill intruders and it looks like the U.S. has gone dafter than it really has. Why single out school shootings? There are shootings of innocent people across the country. And why put guns in the hands of people who ought not have them inside a classroom? How long will it be before some deranged and stressed out teacher shoots one of his students?

How long will it be before some deranged and stressed out teacher shoots one of his students?

Sens. Jerry Moran (R-Kan.) and Joe Manchin (D-W.V.) released a bipartisan letter this week signed by 48 of their colleagues pledging to oppose the U.N. Arms Trade Treaty (ATT), which Secretary of State John Kerry signed on behalf of the United States in September.

This letter makes it clear that the Senate will not ratify the treaty in the foreseeable future.

Since a treaty requires a two-thirds majority to win the Senate's advice and consent, the ATT is at least 17 votes short of the 67 votes needed to secure ratification. And if anything, the Moran-Manchin letter understates Senate opposition to the treaty.

Of course Smiley doesn't know that Obama suggested allowing schools to hire armed guards

I already discussed with you the tactical advantages a gunman would have over the few teachers that have a gun.

If you get rid of the gunfree zones, you'll need additional security to reduce the possibility of a gunman making into the school in the first place.

Oh yeah Svengali

Refresh my memory ....... Where did this supposed discussion take place???

All they do provide those would be defenseless victims/targets is a false sense of security, as if a clear thinking, deranged, potential gunman just might leave his guns outside simply because the sign says "Gun-Free Zone....No Guns Permitted Beyond This Point'

You seriously don't remember this from the D&D thread? I shouldn't be surpised. Republicans can't remember anything before Obama. I'm not digging through the massive thread all day for your amnesia

Somebody in West Suburban St. Charles, Illinois found a novel use for his gun. He used a .22 to shoot icicles that were hanging from his roof

Gee, I always used a pole to knock down icicles.

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-01-16, 05:27:31

Somebody in West Suburban St. Charles, Illinois found a novel use for his gun. He used a .22 to shoot icicles that were hanging from his roof

Now, I've done a lot of things with a firearm, but that's a first to me.

Did you know the .22, as bullets go, is one of the least accurate at longer distances, so depending on the distance this guy must have been either 3 donuts shy of the looney bin, or a freekin ' outrageous marksman! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/big%20laugh%20007.gif)

A democRat way of saying I made that all up, I have no idea why, & I don't care -- so leave me to my usual wet dreams fresh at hand

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-01-15, 04:23:41

A democRat way of saying I made that all up, I have no idea why, & I don't care -- so leave me to my usual wet dreams fresh at hand

How can you not remember that entire discussion? Go get a CAT scan, you might have brain damage or maybe Alzheimers.

I say you probably made it up, or your lying, or are honestly confusing me with someone else, for if you were so absolutely sure, you'd be more than willing to back up your 'story', if for nothing else to resurrect your shattered credibility.

We most have argued for pages about who would actually have the tactile advantage, a teacher with a gun in her purse or the gunman.  The only thing I'm not sure of is your intent. Is it to waste my time by looking through that thread for you, or do you seriously not remember me pointing how that the student gunmen can shoot the teacher while her/his back is turned?

Murderous nut jobs are attracted to them like stink to shit.

Why did Lanza choose that particular school and not some other gun-free zone? Why did Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold choose Columbine? I'm leaving out all Sociology, Psychology, Criminology and anything else you might consider "liberal" to let common sense kick in. If Harris and Klebold merely wanted to shoot random people up, it might have been tactically better and less risky to choose an elementary school. Remember Columbine did have a guard, but he happened to be in the parking lot at the time. The elementary school would have no guard at all. Sure, some shootings are random but most of the time there's a reason besides a sign.

On July 20th, 2012, James Eagan Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58 more at the Cinemark Century 16 Theater in Aurora, Colorado.

Those are facts. But many questions still remain, and one of the most notable asks why the shooter choose that particular theater?

Location? Convenience? Or something else?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunfaq.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F04%2Faurora-cinemas.jpg&hash=22ce35343547461a74ad73d270a462fc" rel="cached" data-hash="22ce35343547461a74ad73d270a462fc" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.gunfaq.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/aurora-cinemas.jpg)

You might think that it was the one closest to the killer’s apartment. Or, that it was the one with the largest audience.

Yet, neither explanation is right. Instead, out of all the movie theaters within 20 minutes of his apartment showing the new Batman movie that night, it was the only one where guns were banned.

Most movie theaters allow permit holders carrying guns. But the Cinemark movie theater was the only one with a sign posted at the theater’s entrance............

So why would a mass shooter pick a place that bans guns? The answer should be obvious, though it apparently is not clear to the media – disarming law-abiding citizens leaves them as sitting ducks.................continued

Hey, SF, I've found a new gun for the family Barbecue, or - just the thing to take to a picnic!
A gun designed for Indian women (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25727080)

I disagree with your theoretical positions.

There's a slight chance I may be wrong--but I doubt it.

Further, I don't think any of the large movie house chains (they own most of the them...) allow guns. If they caught you with a gun, they wouldn't allow in you with it - sign or no sign and your CCW not withstanding.........

...... a person with a CCW would have been take out Holmes (and hopefully not actually add to the death toll?)

[glow=black,2,300] I don't think [/glow]

To put it another way, rational people value their lives and will take steps to perversive it.

These people are not rational. NRA types say "Mass killings happen in gun-free zones." Yes, because those are public places where there are people to kill.

Not by a long-shot ----------- yet, but those that need legal representation will be getting the very very best money can buy  -------- until the legislation is eventually overturned, or they becomes meaningless, whichever comes first.

Does Avis rent armoured cars in the US? It seems advisable. Perhaps one with a rear gunner?

Quote from: string on 2014-01-19, 10:52:19

Does Avis rent armoured cars in the US? It seems advisable. Perhaps one with a rear gunner?

Do you have a problem with front mounted guns?
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-wirT843EoyWbZ51awIFkRqGEGwZlLvAobp6Ain_UlPYaHCOW)

No - I think that would be an admirable choice of transport. I imagine that if you get hit by that gun it Hertz.

RARE WWII RUSSIAN 1944 T34-85 COMBAT TANK
This Unit was built in mid to late 1944 in the Omsk, Russia factory. Many historians have rated this the #1 tank of all time. The unit is original and complete at $100,000. We have the facilities and will; restore it for an additional $25,000 . However you may want to leave it as is.

PRICE (AS IS ) $100,000.00
PRICE ( fully restored ) $125,000.00

Is that the wagon of choice in Detroit mjm?

I am in the somewhat weird position of being pro-second amendment while at the same time being more than a little afraid of some of the pro-concealed carry crowd. I read some of what these guys write on various forums, and so help me they're some of the very last people who should be allowed to have guns. The reason is that in too many cases it's apparent that gun ownership has more to do with their manhood issues than it does with any legitimate need for protection, hunting, target shooting or any perceived threat a renegade government might provide. Before you have a conniption, Smiley-- I'm calling it the way I sees it, according to way too many posts on forums other than these D&D forums. I state again that way too many people want to carry because the gun seems to help them with their manhood issues-- which is one of the worst reasons imaginable for packing heat. Regrettable incidents have a way of happening when folk like that are armed, and they perceive they've been "slighted" in some way.

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-01-20, 01:38:26

I am in the somewhat weird position of being pro-second amendment while at the same time being more than a little afraid of some of the pro-concealed carry crowd. […]

Agreed. I'm pro-second amendment too. I just question the wisdom of allowing anyone that feels like to stroll into the school, courthouse, etc with a gun. I'm also for universal background checks, but don't suffer the delusion that they'll stop all criminals and lunatics from getting guns. […]

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-01-21, 01:41:35

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-01-20, 01:38:26

I am in the somewhat weird position of being pro-second amendment while at the same time being more than a little afraid of some of the pro-concealed carry crowd. […]

Agreed. I'm pro-second amendment too. I just question the wisdom of allowing anyone that feels like to stroll into the school, courthouse, etc with a gun. I'm also for universal background checks, but don't suffer the delusion that they'll stop all criminals and lunatics from getting guns. […]

Perhaps that's somewhat weird in the US, but it doesn't sound like a particularly weird position to me.

In other news, it's okay not to tell the truth because it's not lying.

Separation of church and state is a means to succinctly describe the much more specific language in the first amendment, and that's similar to the way it is in most Western nations. Afaik only France and Turkey have laws that use the words separation between church and state, but that is followed by further qualifications because on its own that doesn't suffice.

Also, again in just about every modern democracy—and I hope you're not one of those silly "the US is a republic, not a democracy" people—there is a tradition of interpretation called (legal) precedent. The details of course vary. In Dutch it's called legal peace; in English it's called stare decisis (to remain by the decided, or something along those lines). The result is much the same: courts are generally supposed to follow precedent unless there's a really good reason not to. To avoid setting a precedent, a court might also produce a brief (if that's the right word) that says it's a one-time-only exception. I don't know if the US has something similar in place, but I'm already straying from the point.

So, what's my point here? Even if your interpretation of the words were correct; even if saying government and church aren't allowed to be the same thing were somehow not separating them: legally speaking all that would matter is how it has been interpreted over the past two centuries. And in the rare case that interpretation does seem to differ wildly from what is written, it's probably most likely that some aspect of the language changed since.

Enough is enough! I am tired of these mother fscking snakes on this mother fscking plane!

GRAND RAPIDS, MI – Prompted by more school shootings and a local open-carrier’s desensitization trainings, Mayor George Heartwell criticized Congress for being too lax on guns and called on like-minded people to “arm yourselves with the righteousness of our position.”

I'll believe that when I don't hear it

Although SF already knows my answer to the OP question, I do have to point out to him that the 2nd Amendment doesn't mean anything at all to anyone outside of the US, as their laws on guns vary widely. (Probably already knows that, but I am pointing it out regardless)

Who are the people in the latter part? People in general or the people of the "well regulated Militia"?

Poor wording in the amendment, but from what I have understood, it's often the case in English (and medieval German) common law tradition.

This is an egregious case of syntax error. What is this thing about "well regulated Militia"? Does this set the context, in light of which the entire amendment should be read? This would actually make sense, but why not make it clear? Who are the people in the latter part? People in general or the people of the "well regulated Militia"?

It's not a syntax error, nor is it unclear: [...] "[Because] A well regulated Militia [is] necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

So the arguments go round and round, but the casual link with the phrase "being necessary to the security of a free State" is pretty clear I think (the clue is in the use of the word "being" which points it to being the objective of the whole sentence, not simply one of a list of items).

The problem persists:
By degrading "well regulated Militia" into a subordinate clause in the sentence, this interpretation plays entirely into the hands of pro-gunners. When in subordinate clause, what force do the words "well regulated" have? Apparently none over "the people" and their "Arms".

such syntax does not occur in European English legal texts.

The situation was even worse in the law, where a long English tradition held that punctuation marks were not actually part of statutes (and, therefore, courts could not consider punctuation when interpreting them). Not surprisingly, lawmakers took a devil-may-care approach to punctuation. Often, the whole business of punctuation was left to the discretion of scriveners, who liked to show their chops by inserting as many varied marks as possible.

Likewise, when the justices finish diagramming the Second Amendment, they should end up with something that expresses a causal link, like: “Because a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.” In other words, the amendment is really about protecting militias, notwithstanding the originalist arguments to the contrary.

so well isn't it!

Quote from: string on 2014-02-14, 11:22:57

So the arguments go round and round, but the casual link with the phrase "being necessary to the security of a free State" is pretty clear I think (the clue is in the use of the word "being" which points it to being the objective of the whole sentence, not simply one of a list of items).

So, as per you, it would be possible to make out the whole amendment as referring to the security of the incipient state? Does it mean that now, when the state is considered secured by other means, the right of people to bear arms can be gracefully interpreted as obsolete or nearly so?

Quote from: ersi on 2014-02-14, 11:56:44

The problem persists:
By degrading "well regulated Militia" into a subordinate clause in the sentence, this interpretation plays entirely into the hands of pro-gunners. When in subordinate clause, what force do the words "well regulated" have? Apparently none over "the people" and their "Arms".

I don't follow your argument. Terms like adjunct clause and subordinate clause are purely syntactic. Such clauses are disposable in the sense that you still have a grammatical sentence without them, not in the sense that they don't affect the meaning.

Quote from: ersi on 2014-02-14, 11:56:44

such syntax does not occur in European English legal texts.

It does not occur in European English legal texts from the second half of the eighteenth century?

But I got the answer. Looks like the interpretation of the whole amendment should revolve around the "well regulated Militia" bit rather than anything else, but of course pro-gunners construe the second part as a holy human right, to which the wording - the wording of the second part specifically - seems to entitle them, nevermind the first part of the same amendment.

After removing two commas which are possibly distracting to English people and adding a because for similar reasons, you get something like this: "[Because] A well regulated Militia [is] necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

Thank heavens we lost the ex-colonies.........

Over 10,00 killed each year and of course the corporate gun lobby and their childish gun toing pals brain us with guns don't kill people do. Well what un-intentionally only backs up what I say about playing cowboys.

Music too loud and teens refuse to turn it down? Shot dead. Before these laws, no jury in America would convict someone legitimately defending himself.

A jury has found Michael Dunn, the Florida man accused of shooting an unarmed teenager to death during a dispute over loud music, guilty of four charges, but the jury was unable to reach a decision on the top count, first-degree murder.

Dunn, who is white, fired 10 shots into an SUV, killing Jordan Davis, 17, who was black. The shooting in a convenience store parking lot in Jacksonville erupted after Dunn asked the teenagers in the vehicle to turn down their music.

Dunn was charged with first-degree murder, three counts of attempted second-degree murder and one count of firing into a vehicle in the Nov. 23, 2012, shooting. The jury couldn’t reach a decision on the first-degree murder charge, but convicted on the other four.

Dunn contended he acted in self-defense. Prosecutors suggested that Dunn, 47, was angry because he was being disrespected by a young black man.....

...... Florida's "stand your ground" law allows the defense to seek a special hearing to receive immunity from prosecution before a trial. Dunn did not choose to go that route, but argued that he had acted in self-defense because he thought there was a weapon in the car and he feared for his life........

......Dunn was remanded to the custody of authorities. Sentencing, which could total as much as 75 years in prison, was set for around March 24.

.........killing around 10,000 of each other annually. And all based on a thinking rooted in the past.

If we choose to kill ourselves with automobiles, recreational vehicles, firearms, or by any other means of choice, we freely understand & accept that freedom is not free.

In fact, justice hasn't been done. Michael Dunn was found guilty on 3 accounts of attempted murder........

Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to own, carry, & use Firearms

What we're looking for is an intelligent middle ground between NRA absolutism and trying to make guns all but illegal.

Interesting that a terrorist supporter like Smileyfaze is so chuffed we were thrown out because the money men took charge and place went downhill afterwards and became a land of nut jobs, school massacring and so on. By all means keep shooting 10,000 a year it's a right you know!

Do You Support Banning The Possession Of Handguns?
ONION POLL • Opinion • Guns • ISSUE 50•07 • Feb 19, 2014

No. I need this handgun in case I have to shoot a person.

Certainly not the Beretta Px4 Storm Inox! Talk about smooth action.

Yes, but only if we can still make our hands into the shape of a gun and pretend to blow smoke from it after dishing out a great insult.

Not until I settle a few scores.

Only for criminals and men of poor repute.

You can’t possibly be suggesting I get rid of Peggy?!

I’m so good at fighting that it doesn’t really matter.

I would have, if I lived in that time, openly called for the bloody heads & hearts of every representative of the Tyrannical British crown.

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-02-19, 02:13:15

I would have, if I lived in that time, openly called for the bloody heads & hearts of every representative of the Tyrannical British crown.

Another Adam Lanza moment courtesy of El Smiley One.

rj considers both to be Terrorist Organizations, whereas I differ with his opinion, & consider them Freedom Fighters & Patriots.

The IRA bombed the subway, etc destroying the lives of innocent civilians.

......but all the British had to <do> was leave Ireland alone in the first place.

This continuation from the long and drawn out theme on Opera just shows how juvenile the menatality is across the pond .

This continuation from the long and drawn out theme on Opera just shows how juvenile the menatality is across the pond .

and they keep gunning each other down

Bashing the USA is so easy and never lets one down!

On Jan. 1, 2014, tens of thousands of defiant gun owners seemingly made the choice not to register their semi-automatic rifles with the state of Connecticut as required by a hastily-passed gun control law. By possessing unregistered so-called “assault rifles,” they all technically became guilty of committing Class D felonies overnight.

Police had received 47,916 applications for “assault weapons certificates” and 21,000 incomplete applications as of Dec. 31, Lt. Paul Vance told The Courant.

At roughly 50,000 applications, officials estimate that as little as 15 percent of the covered semi-automatic rifles have actually been registered with the state. “No one has anything close to definitive figures, but the most conservative estimates place the number of unregistered assault weapons well above 50,000, and perhaps as high as 350,000,” the report states.

Needless to say, officials and some lawmakers are stunned.

Contunued ...... read on from the above title link

What do I think? - I think it's all rather hysterical.

But coming to the old, old joke about the "Right to Bare Arms", I note that progress has, indeed been made by the Bare Arms Movement

Right to Bare Arms (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Right-to-Bear-Arms-Marines-to-Allow-Rolled-Up-Sleeves-247677181.html)

Unfortunately this means that we can all look forward to even more smelly armpits. Clearly regulation is the right way forward, criminals should only be allowed to have bare wrists, for example, and repeat criminals should loose the right to bare arms entirely, and ......

Naturally the State should issue masks for those badly affected.

Of course, some people will refuse to register their arms.

But that's the US of A.

ps. Bet this gun continuation goes on and on.

Open carry is legal in Texas, but nonetheless police arrested Derek Poe for carrying his AR-15 through the Parkdale Mall.

"Multiple witnesses claimed that they were 'terrified' and 'thought they were going to die,' according to Burnt Orange Report, a major Texas political blog. But Poe maintains he did nothing illegal. He told KBMT that "it was clearly obvious I didn't have criminal intent. I had a drink in one hand and a bag in the other. I didn't commit a crime. I legally carried a long arm in Texas."

Poe, a gun store owner, faces up to 180 days in jail and a $1,000 fine after his arrest for "disorderly conduct." The charge was brought by police on the grounds that he was carrying his weapon "in a manner calculated to alarm."

ps. Bet this gun continuation goes on and on.

An attack by knife-wielding men at a railway station in Kunming in south-west China has left at least 29 dead, the state news agency Xinhua says.

Another 130 people were wounded in what authorities said was a "premeditated, violent terrorist attack".

.

Quote

Open carry is legal in Texas, but nonetheless police arrested Derek Poe for carrying his AR-15 through the Parkdale Mall.

"Multiple witnesses claimed that they were 'terrified' and 'thought they were going to die,' according to Burnt Orange Report, a major Texas political blog. But Poe maintains he did nothing illegal. He told KBMT that "it was clearly obvious I didn't have criminal intent. I had a drink in one hand and a bag in the other. I didn't commit a crime. I legally carried a long arm in Texas."

Poe, a gun store owner, faces up to 180 days in jail and a $1,000 fine after his arrest for "disorderly conduct." The charge was brought by police on the grounds that he was carrying his weapon "in a manner calculated to alarm."

Great day in the morning!!! Is there something in the water that causes these "He-Man" types to do the dumbest things you can find to do with guns? They're always wanting to walk around like it's "The Day After The End of the World" or some such nonsense, ready for trouble at all times--- in the meantime, I've lived 58 years so far and never once been in a situation where a gun would have done me much good, most times it's just something else I'd have to be concerned about-- got plenty on my plate already, don't need a gun adding to the "festivities".

As I've said before, I have a gun but don't carry it with me. Frankly, I don't think it would do me much good, either. I have two water pistols for my grandboys that are lots of fun.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi1217.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd389%2FJaybro37%2FJimsGun.jpg&hash=14e59bbde0d494add4c22e79325f5384" rel="cached" data-hash="14e59bbde0d494add4c22e79325f5384" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd389/Jaybro37/JimsGun.jpg)

Hint: Take this sort of picture from the side so you don't get the flash reflection and then take out perspective using Paintshop Pro or something.

Call me stupid for not carrying all you want-- I remarked on Sang's post showing a couple of guys who displayed remarkable stupidity for the way they carried and where they chose to carry, and you say that I hit every branch on the stupid tree. I'll have to remember that-----.

Nice job of editing after the fact

JFYI......I made at minimum of 3 revisions of the above (this post) spanning over 15 or so minutes, but I guess because it was still the last post, no edit remarks appeared until the last

Another reason might be that after a modification is made, I don't think subsequent posting is shown unless you additionally do a refresh of the page.

.....Things happen, especially when we're dealing in print and can't see each others' faces which can tell so much in person-to-person communication. Besides, I hate carrying grudges, the doggone things get heavy after a short time.

I wish someone really thoughtful over there could explain this.

The US Constitution in all the arguments over it mentions that the gun thing was in conjunction with a properly organised militia. No problem with the militia in a young country not yet full up so why the deuce is this thing about the right to carry arms when there is an army a National Guard a wide police force everywhere?

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-03-04, 03:21:01

I wish someone really thoughtful over there could explain this.

The US Constitution in all the arguments over it mentions that the gun thing was in conjunction with a properly organised militia. No problem with the militia in a young country not yet full up so why the deuce is this thing about the right to carry arms when there is an army a National Guard a wide police force everywhere?

The existence of the Second Amendment wasn't there so we can duck shoot, & target shoot, it was created so we could cast off any tyrannical government that in part or in total refused to abide by the Constitution , & honor the rights of the people as primarily outlined in the first 10 Amendments to the US Constitution   ---   The Bill of Rights.

A militia is simply any man, any woman, & any boy, any grandad, & any grandma...........any citizen of age capable of shooting &/or being trained to shoot in.

The Militia is not a National Guard, The Militia is not a police force, nor is the Militia a small unit in any army.

It is any citizen or group of citizens capable of joining in with another citizen or citizens in time of need....locally all the way up to nationally, using their own personally maintained weapons of choice, for defense against all foes either foreign or domestic --- to protect themselves, their families, their friends, & their property.

You may wish to argue need, but in the end it is not up to any person or government of the people to define.

Defining the need has always rested with the individual --- It is not a collective Right as defined by the Supreme Court, & as written, is not negotiable.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FmzS0Qva.jpg&hash=e35e8f3d6b89b5277e455415ab724023" rel="cached" data-hash="e35e8f3d6b89b5277e455415ab724023" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/mzS0Qva.jpg)

each others' faces

....back then citizens militias might have a chance against the US military...

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.........

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.

2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people

3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

gorilla fighting

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-03-04, 07:27:04

gorilla fighting

75 to 100 million gun owners make a substantial guerrilla fighting force, if called upon.

***

Also, about 75% of the military, when asked, said they would never fire on another American..........ever.

..... Don't even begin to think American troops won't turn on Americans again. I'm sure 75% say they won't and actually believe it but there's also the issue being trained to follow orders, the propaganda they're given about the targets. Yes, they're likely to believe that firing on the resistance cells is protecting the country.

I sure hope you're wrong, 'cause that day is probably a commin' ...... sooner than you think. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/He%20Did%20It%20004.gif)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=99.157;msg=12222)

what concerns to Europe the problem is not the army but the police.

It's an hour before suppertime, and the line outside Lone Oak First Baptist Church in Paducah, Ky., is wrapped around the building. The people are waiting for more than a Bible sermon; there's a raffle tonight. Twenty-five guns are up for grabs.

There's nothing new about gun raffles in Kentucky, even at a church. Last year, there were 50 events like this one in the state. The Kentucky Baptist Convention says it's a surefire way to get new people through church doors.

Apart from being such a dangerous place it is a laughing stock of the world. Sad, sad.

is 270,000,0001

California Democratic State Senator and candidate for California Secretary of State, Leland Yee, a gun control advocate, has been charged with conspiring to traffic in firearms and public corruption.  The charges are part of a 26 person criminal complaint and a major FBI sting operation.  The full criminal complaint is a massive 137 pages that tells the story of Yee’s involvement with a broad ranging conspiracy that includes firearms trafficking, murder-for-hire, drug distribution, trafficking in contraband cigarettes, money laundering, and honest services fraud.

Yee is charged with “conspiracy to deal firearms without a license and to illegally import firearms” as well as six counts of honest services fraud.  Each corruption charge is punishable by up to 20 years in federal prison and a fine of up to $250,000, while the gun-trafficking charge is punishable by up to five years and $250,000........... continued

A noted internet poster and staunch gun advocate, SmileyFaze, was shot yesterday by a seven year old boy.
Details at eleven.

And now yet another school on a rampage. Kind of typical of routine reality over the pond although for a change this nut job in the land of such used knives.

A knife-wielding student had a "blank expression" as he went on a mass stabbing spree at a Murrysville, Pa., high school at the start of the school day, a witness said.

Witnesses told the Associated Press the assailant, who was carrying two knives, first tackled a freshman and stabbed him in the abdomen before running down the hall inside Franklin Region High School and slashing other students.

Nate Moore, 15, was stabbed during the rampage and said he had to be treated with 15 stitches.

"It was really fast. It felt like he hit me with a wet rag because I felt the blood splash on my face. It spurted up on my forehead," Moore told the AP.

At least 20 people were injured after the stabbings at the start of the school day, Westmoreland County emergency management spokesman Dan Stevens said.

No fatalities were reported.

The stabbing spree ended when assistant principal Sam King helped tackle the 16-year-old suspect, according to Thomas Seefeld, the police chief in Murrysville, Pa.

The motive for the rampage remains under investigation. However, Seefeld said the outcome could have been a lot worse if immediate action had not been taken **.........

An armed & trained teacher or security officer with a Glock probably could have scared this asshole into dropping his weapons much sooner, either that or he could have popped this scumbag in the grey matter way before most of those 30+ minutes of butchery took place, probably sparing many of the young victims.
....................................
Anybody?

RANCHO CUCAMONGA, Calif. (KABC) -- A suspect has been arrested in the fatal shooting of a security guard during an armed robbery at a mini-mart in Rancho Cucamonga.

Diego Dominguez, 36, of Rancho Cucamonga, was arrested Sunday. He is suspected of shooting and killing 45-year-old Dean Sena as he worked at a strip mall on Arrow Route and Hermosa Avenue around 11:20 p.m. Saturday.

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-04-09, 21:10:08

An armed & trained teacher or security officer with a Glock probably could have scared this asshole into dropping his weapons much sooner, either that or he could have popped this scumbag in the grey matter way before most of those 30+ minutes of butchery took place, probably sparing many of the young victims.
....................................
Anybody?

Quote

RANCHO CUCAMONGA, Calif. (KABC) -- A suspect has been arrested in the fatal shooting of a security guard during an armed robbery at a mini-mart in Rancho Cucamonga.

Diego Dominguez, 36, of Rancho Cucamonga, was arrested Sunday. He is suspected of shooting and killing 45-year-old Dean Sena as he worked at a strip mall on Arrow Route and Hermosa Avenue around 11:20 p.m. Saturday.

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/bandito09.gif)

What don't you understand about the difference between a tyrannical regime in Syria and mass killings in the United States?

:lol: Who did you vote for in 2012? :lol:

....Who's guns did he take away?.....

Because he didn't try.......

...... It’s hard to see how these M1 rifles could be considered risky when they already are offered for sale by the U.S. government through the Civilian Marksmanship Program. In fact, the federally sponsored CMP puts on summer camps that teach boys and girls how to handle the Garand properly and safely. In the past seven years, there hasn’t been a single accident. Many of the participants go on to serve their country or take part in shooting sports at the collegiate and Olympic level.

It’s more likely that the administration is seeking to win the admiration of gun grabbers. Mr. Obama has a history of supporting gun control as a state senator and U.S. senator, but he’s been limited in his ability to implement this anti-gun agenda as president. Democratic members of Congress remember the federal assault-weapons ban as one of the lead issues motivating voters to turn Congress over to Republicans in 1994. Senators facing tight races in pro-gun states don’t want to see a repeat of that midterm landslide. Therefore, the best way for Mr. Obama to appease the gun-grabbing fringe is to take actions that won’t bring too much attention to what he’s doing. As long as the destruction of these rifles stays under the public radar screen, he will have achieved his goal ..........continued

Ah, a see you can't point out any examples of Obama taking away everyone's guns, or even attempting to.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)

.......I am saying you folks have lost perspective.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)

You should have seen the look on the workers faces when the saw all my dad's rifles, even the weapons where packed away in their cases and unloaded.

In a chilling rampage that shocked the nation, a 37-year-old man burst into an elementary school in Ikeda, a suburb of Osaka, about 310 miles west of Tokyo today and began stabbing and slashing students and teachers.

The mass killing, the worst in Japan since a nerve gas attack on Tokyo's subway six years ago, sent hundreds of panicked children — many of them sobbing and screaming for help — scrambling to get out of the school premises.

Since 475 people were murdered with a gun in Mississippi in 2010, that drop in gun ownership would translate to 80 lives saved in that year alone.

Quote from:  'Cooney   ''at no dime does his fingers leave his palms''  the mooner

Ah, a see you can't point out any examples of Obama taking away everyone's guns, or even attempting to.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/busted.gif)   (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BigGrin02.gif)  Ah, I see --- same ole 'Cooney, get caught-out with yer ass & weenie dangelin' in the breeze --- gotta deflect, deflect, deflect... (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lolfun.gif)

Quote from:  'Cooney   ''at no time does his fingers leave his palms''  the mooner

.......I am saying you folks have lost perspective.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lol015.gif)  (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smiley-lol.com%2Fsmiley%2Fheureux%2Flollarge.gif&hash=cc78d35b88dd655637714b01138a1063" rel="cached" data-hash="cc78d35b88dd655637714b01138a1063" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/heureux/lollarge.gif)  You wouldn't know a perspective if it smacked you flat in the face like a 6 month old dead carp!

Quote from:  'Cooney   ''at no time does his fingers leave his palms''  the mooner

You should have seen the look on the workers faces when the saw all my dad's rifles, even the weapons where packed away in their cases and unloaded.

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/JerkOFF.gif) Ewwwwwww, an in his own mind, gun-totin', ornery Procyon!!  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/koolaid.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/RaccoonStrut.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/fright.gif)    (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/big%20laugh%20007.gif)

Now, I'm supposed to be really, really impressed!!    ......    [glow=blue,2,300]NOT! [/glow] (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/taunt.gif)

You're so confused........do another line or three!   (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/dopedoinlines01.gif)    :lol:

Heh (http://www.charlesapple.com/2014/04/two-recent-infographic-fails-you-ought-to-know-about/).

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.charlesapple.com%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2F1404GunDeaths01.jpg&hash=dea52102b040fc9e24aae2f24d49255f" rel="cached" data-hash="dea52102b040fc9e24aae2f24d49255f" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.charlesapple.com/uploads/2014/04/1404GunDeaths01.jpg)

Today, an important youth firearm education bill passed unanimously in the Michigan Senate Judiciary Committee. House Bill 5085 (https://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28itc114iw5trwc255kod1iw55%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2013-HB-5085) now goes to the Senate floor for consideration.  Introduced by state Representative Phil Potvin (R-102), HB 5085 corrects an unduly burdensome restraint on youth firearm education by reasonably expanding the class of individuals who are allowed to supervise and instruct Michigan youth on the safe use of pistols......,continued

I see from the picture of the girl with with the red ear muffs, that these kids are being taught to kill, not just shoot.

Quote from: string on 2014-05-01, 06:58:02

I see from the picture of the girl with with the red ear muffs, that these kids are being taught to kill, not just shoot.

But only "to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends"

Quote from: string on 2014-05-01, 06:58:02

I see from the picture of the girl with with the red ear muffs, that these kids are being taught to kill, not just shoot.

But only "to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends"

ROSWELL, N.M. (AP) — A 12-year-old New Mexico boy drew a shotgun from a band-instrument case and shot and wounded two classmates at his middle school Tuesday morning before a teacher talked him into dropping the weapon and he was taken into custody, officials and witnesses said.

TAFT, Calif. - The 16-year-old boy had allegedly wounded the teenager he claimed had bullied him, fired two more rounds at students fleeing their first-period science class, then faced teacher Ryan Heber.

A 17-year-old Omaha high school student murdered a classmate after the victim threatened him to not make sexual comments about his sister.
Christopher D. Spears, a junior at Omaha Northwest High School, was at the home of sophomore Dominique Hollie, when Spears made sexual comments about Hollie's sister Friday night, authorities said, according to Omaha.com.

A suspected high school shooter in Central Florida is in custody after targeting a classmate just as after classes were getting out Wednesday afternoon, according to police.
The 15-year-old victim identified as Ja'Roderick Smith of West Orange High School in Winter Garden was downgraded to stable condition after being shot in the face and abdomen around 1:10 p.m., according to police and local reports.

BEND, Ore. (AP) — Police say a Bend High School student died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound in the presence of classmates.

KTVZ reports that Bend Police Chief Jim Porter says the student brought the gun onto campus and fired the fatal shot Friday in a modular classroom. No one else was injured.

Police did not identify the student or provide a gender or age. Police also wouldn't say how many students were present, or describe the type of gun used.

HOUSTON –  A Texas high school senior is in custody after shooting a 9th grade student in the leg early Tuesday afternoon, authorities say.

The suspect, 18, shot a 16-year-old classmate in an upstairs hallway of North Forest High School, reports MyFoxHouston.com.

However the dummy (the one who is being shot at) does not seem to be carrying a gun.

:D

Quote from: tt92 on 2014-05-01, 07:25:11

Quote from: string on 2014-05-01, 06:58:02

I see from the picture of the girl with with the red ear muffs, that these kids are being taught to kill, not just shoot.

But only "to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends"

Certainly!

Quote

#1 through #6

Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.  This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.

Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.

As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.

Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America" -- a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.

Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).  And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."

Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense. Citizens use handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year.  Many of these self-defense handguns could be labeled as "Saturday Night Specials."

Nationwide. In 1979, the Carter Justice Department found that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32% were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of the attempted rapes were actually successful.
Source: U.S. Department of Justice, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities (1979), p. 31. 

Like this you mean?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.charlesapple.com%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2F1404GunDeaths02.jpg&hash=2ece8d32cbc8d596221df9588c0c0cfb" rel="cached" data-hash="2ece8d32cbc8d596221df9588c0c0cfb" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.charlesapple.com/uploads/2014/04/1404GunDeaths02.jpg)

In the United States, stand-your-ground law states that a person may justifiably use force in self-defense without an obligation to retreat first. The concept sometimes exists in statutory law and sometimes through common law precedents. One key distinction is whether the concept only applies to defending a home or vehicle, or whether it applies to all lawfully occupied locations. Under these legal concepts, a person is justified in using deadly force in certain situations and the "stand your ground" law would be a defense or immunity to criminal charges and civil suit. The difference between immunity and a defense is that an immunity bars suit, charges, detention and arrest. A defense, such as an affirmative defense, permits a plaintiff or the state to seek civil damages or a criminal conviction but may offer mitigating circumstances that justify the accused's conduct.

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - With concealed weapons now legal in all 50 states, the National Rifle Association's focus at this week's annual meeting is less about enacting additional state protections than on making sure the permits already issued still apply when the gun owners travel across the country. The nation's largest gun-rights group, which officially opens its meeting of about 70,000 people Friday in Indianapolis, wants Congress to require that concealed weapons permits issued in one state be recognized everywhere, even when the local requirements differ. Advocates say the effort would eliminate a patchwork of state-specific regulations that lead to carriers unwittingly violating the law when traveling.

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)  With a fantastic prison population nearly 11,00 being killed annually and in the top 5 nations for legal executions so much for the need for a gun culture. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)  One would have thought over two centuries you would have grown up.   (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif)

Yup like that. The misunderstanding was my fault for it being almost 8:30 am and me not having been to bed yet.

The White House has urged gun companies to invent safety technology that could limit a gun’s use to its owner. But two gun shops decided not to sell such guns after receiving death threats.

Andy Raymond, a Rockland, Md., firearms dealer, found out how much some people who love guns and the Second Amendment really hate some guns, causing the owner of Engage Armament this week to reverse his plan to sell the Armatix iP1, the nation’s first “smart” gun.

The German-made Armatix iP1 won’t fire unless it’s in proximity of a special watch, thus making it useless if stolen. Gun control advocates, including Attorney General Eric Holder, have cited such technology as potential life savers.

But the NRA and many gun owners say it’s a government Trojan horse intended to open the door for laws that will mandate “smart” technology in new guns in order to identify gun owners – a notion that’s widely seen by gun owners as a threat to Second Amendment rights.

Only in America...

Death threats stop gun store from selling 'smart' gun. Why? (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2014/0503/Death-threats-stop-gun-store-from-selling-smart-gun.-Why)

Quote

The White House has urged gun companies to invent safety technology that could limit a gun’s use to its owner. But two gun shops decided not to sell such guns after receiving death threats.

Andy Raymond, a Rockland, Md., firearms dealer, found out how much some people who love guns and the Second Amendment really hate some guns, causing the owner of Engage Armament this week to reverse his plan to sell the Armatix iP1, the nation’s first “smart” gun.

The German-made Armatix iP1 won’t fire unless it’s in proximity of a special watch, thus making it useless if stolen. Gun control advocates, including Attorney General Eric Holder, have cited such technology as potential life savers.

But the NRA and many gun owners say it’s a government Trojan horse intended to open the door for laws that will mandate “smart” technology in new guns in order to identify gun owners – a notion that’s widely seen by gun owners as a threat to Second Amendment rights.

Maybe those not-so-smart guys should be disarmed?:)

......it’s a government Trojan horse intended to open the door for laws that will mandate “smart” technology in new guns ................. a notion that’s widely seen by gun owners as a threat to Second Amendment rights.

....... a New Jersey law passed in 2002 (http://www.myfoxny.com/story/23689373/nj-smart-gun-law-could-take-effect-soon) known as the Childproof Handgun Law, which says that all guns sold in New Jersey must be state-approved smart guns (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/nyregion/smart-guns-a-clever-bit-of-legislating.html)within three years of a smart gun being sold anywhere in the country. The goal was to make smart guns mandatory as soon as the technology existed.

I wonder if gun ownership-- specifically handgun ownership-- carries a sort of paranoia with it. Could it be possible that a man sleeps without fear, doesn't conjure up nightmare scenarios like having a team of thugs in his house late at night and so on-- until the day he buys a gun for protection, and from that day he never has a peaceful moment because his "peacemaker" keeps his head full of what-ifs?

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-05-06, 07:36:18

I wonder if gun ownership-- specifically handgun ownership-- carries a sort of paranoia with it. Could it be possible that a man sleeps without fear, doesn't conjure up nightmare scenarios like having a team of thugs in his house late at night and so on-- until the day he buys a gun for protection, and from that day he never has a peaceful moment because his "peacemaker" keeps his head full of what-ifs?

I have a nagging suspicion that at least some of these people have a constant, horrible itch to actually use their shiny new toys in real life. Those aren't nightmares but wishful thinking.

The official line in the sand is the gun issue. And thus, I have some definitive declarations that need to be considered by the powers that be before they go off on an unconstitutional rampage on the rights of the people.

1. We will not comply with any new gun control law.

2. We will not turn in any firearm that you suddenly decide to be "illegal." They are illegal only in your own delusional minds.

3. In the event you limit ammunition or require us to register to get it, we will create the biggest black market in the history of the world. We can make our own ammunition.

4. We will not comply with any new gun bans. We can make our own guns as well, even the type you wish to take from us.

5. The attempt to gain entrance to our homes to confiscate our guns and ammunition will be considered an act of war. We will not comply. Be prepared to kill us if you do such an asinine thing in what is supposed to be a FREE country. But then, also be aware that you will pay a heavy price for perpetrating such tyranny..................

I wonder if gun ownership-- specifically handgun ownership-- carries a sort of paranoia with it....you must be prepared with heavy weapons and huge ammo clips to feed the heavy weapons "just in case".

I believe the gun issue, the right of the people to keep & bear arms without infringement, is the straw that just might break the camel's back so to speak.

The author of the following piece, though some may see him as a bit further to the right than you or I, lists some very significant & salient points that should not be ignored or dismissed:

Quote from:      The Liberty Sphere       http://tinyurl.com/lrkt73n       

The official line in the sand is the gun issue. And thus, I have some definitive declarations that need to be considered by the powers that be before they go off on an unconstitutional rampage on the rights of the people.

1. We will not comply with any new gun control law.

2. We will not turn in any firearm that you suddenly decide to be "illegal." They are illegal only in your own delusional minds.

3. In the event you limit ammunition or require us to register to get it, we will create the biggest black market in the history of the world. We can make our own ammunition.

4. We will not comply with any new gun bans. We can make our own guns as well, even the type you wish to take from us.

5. The attempt to gain entrance to our homes to confiscate our guns and ammunition will be considered an act of war. We will not comply. Be prepared to kill us if you do such an asinine thing in what is supposed to be a FREE country. But then, also be aware that you will pay a heavy price for perpetrating such tyranny..................

[glow=blue,2,300]Are these words prophetic, or just theoretical? [/glow]

Are you so sure you know the difference?

Anybody here ever...
1. been shot
2. been shot at
3. been threatened with a gun
4. worried that he might run into Smileyfaze
5. known anybody in categories 1, 2, 3 or 4

By the wrong reasons, SmileyFaze's right.
By the right reasons, all of you are wrong.

Quote from: Belfrager on 2014-05-08, 20:14:46

By the wrong reasons, SmileyFaze's right.
By the right reasons, all of you are wrong.

Wait, what? Care to explain?

I thought Cyanide & Happiness was just a comic.

Anybody here ever...
1. been shot
2. been shot at
3. been threatened with a gun
4. worried that he might run into Smileyfaze
5. known anybody in categories 1, 2, 3 or 4

Now how immature is that question on whether someone on these Forums has been shot or shot at. This group if tiny compared to what is 11,00 killed every year in the land of so many non-grown ups.

Oh you know fine well mjsmsprt40 that was a typing matter!  :D

Anyway we in Scotland have around roughly between 120 - 130 killings annually and has fallen recently.

Tragedy struck our fair city yesterday......

A shopper, Joseph Robert Wilcox, 31, of Las Vegas had a concealed weapon and decided to confront Jerad Miller, police said. As he walked toward the suspect, Amanda Miller came up behind him and shot him several times in the ribs, police said. 

Court records describe Jerad Miller's past run-ins with the law, including drug charges. In 2007, he pleaded guilty to a felony criminal recklessness charge and was sentenced to a diversion program. In 2011, he pleaded guilty to a felony charge of dealing marijuana and was sentenced to two year's probation and drug counseling.

He was arrested and charged with battery in 2009. A jury acquitted him later that yea

Individual gun sales also need to subject to background checks. Set up a 1-800 number and a website and the seller gets the yes/no answer in five minutes, if that.

So you're comfortable with gang members and people like Miller being able to do this?

Each gun needs to have internal identification that can't be filed off, so we can can determine the criminals' supply chain and sever it while preserving the rights of legal gun owners.

Smiley, do you even have a ghost of a clue what "well regulated" means? Any idea at all?

.....How in goodness name child minds can morph what the founders meant into this Hopalong Cassidy stuff is beyond comprehension. Plus the fact that even a militia is in the past as there is an army and a National Guard..........

“The contemporary proliferation of bullshit also has deeper sources, in various forms of skepticism which deny that we can have any reliable access to an objective reality and which therefore reject the possibility of knowing how things truly are. These "anti-realist" doctrines undermine confidence in the value of disinterested efforts to determine what is true and what is false, and even in the intelligibility of the notion of objective inquiry. One response to this loss of confidence has been a retreat from the discipline required by dedication to the ideal of correctness to a quite different sort of discipline, which is imposed by pursuit of an alternative ideal of sincerity. Rather than seeking primarily to arrive at accurate representations of a common world, the individual turns toward trying to provide honest representations of himself. Convinced that reality has no inherent nature, which he might hope to identify as the truth about things, he devotes himself to being true to his own nature. It is as though he decides that since it makes no sense to try to be true to the facts, he must therefore try instead to be true to himself.

But it is preposterous to imagine that we ourselves are determinate, and hence susceptible both to correct and to incorrect descriptions, while supposing that the ascription of determinacy to anything else has been exposed as a mistake. As conscious beings, we exist only in response to other things, and we cannot know ourselves at all without knowing them. Moreover, there is nothing in theory, and certainly nothing in experience, to support the extraordinary judgment that it is the truth about himself that is the easiest for a person to know. Facts about ourselves are not peculiarly solid and resistant to skeptical dissolution. Our natures are, indeed, elusively insubstantial -- notoriously less stable and less inherent than the natures of other things. And insofar as this is the case, sincerity itself is bullshit.”

Plus the fact that even a militia is in the past as there is an army and a National Guard.

How many more mass shootings by nutjobs will we have before somebody figures out that our "well regulated militia" is not at all well and probably could use some halfway decent regulation?

I don't think any form of  new loophole free Firearm Regulation, even an absolute ban on all firearms -- big, small, ugly, pretty, automatic, single shot etc, etc, etc, etc -- will stop a nutjob or criminal intent of getting & using a firearm, from doing so.

Can't think of a single loophole?

I think think of three possibilities.

1) You haven't been thinking about it at all. 2) Your head is filled with cement 3) Or you're outright lying......,.

Quote from:  SmileyFaze

"Now, be honest & answer this ------ What do you intend on regulating? -- Who do you intend on regulating?

Criminals?  .......    Really, you honestly think that will work?"

Another variation of "criminals don't obey laws."

The object isn't regulating people per say.

It's regulating the transfer of guns......

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-12, 01:33:38

How many more mass shootings by nutjobs will we have before somebody figures out that our "well regulated militia" is not at all well and probably could use some halfway decent regulation?

So Mike, for you, a not so quickie answer.

There are in excess of One Hundred Million (100,000,000+) Firearm owners in America. 

How many of them became mass shooters/murderers in the last 50 years?

There are in excess of Three Hundred Million (300,000,000+) Firearms in America.

How many of those weapons were used in commission of mass murder in the last 50 years?

Nothing in life can ever be 100% guaranteed ....... that is except death (by any means imaginable--pick one).

I don't think any form of new loophole free Firearm Regulation, even an absolute ban on all firearms -- big, small, ugly, pretty, automatic, single shot etc, etc, etc, etc -- will stop a nutjob or criminal intent of getting & using a firearm, from doing so.

Or, and this may be closer to your heart, should we not bother about Quality Control on Ammunition because what does it matter of two or three rounds in a box do not fire?

Quote from: string on 2014-06-12, 14:58:54

Or, and this may be closer to your heart, should we not bother about Quality Control on Ammunition because what does it matter of two or three rounds in a box do not fire?

Better a dud than that they explode in the wrong way! ;)

....Statistically not that many people die from snake bites, does that mean we should not have serums?...

.....Should we not teach students about music because not many actually play an instrument.....

.......PS By the way, you are still misquoting the 2nd Amendment - you have missed out the part about regulation, what you write is not a free-standing sentence.....

.....It's just as daft to say that we should not bother to regulate firearms because people will still get shot; the aim of regulation is to reduce the number that get shot.......

Your right there String & you might not have realized it........Yes, I think that even though many adults & children will never use or own a firearm, firearm safety & the proper handling of firearms should be a required course of study in every grammar school, high school, & university....as should be CPR.

The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, which was said by some to have been inserted to protect the First Amendment, by no means gave, or gives today, Government any right whatsoever to pass any regulations on the citizens it is hired to serve regarding keeping & bearing firearms.

In fact, this protects the buyer in the event that the gun is used in a crime by creating the record that you so fear. Think law enforcement doesn't attempt to trace the serial number of recovered weapons used in crimes now? Murderer steals a gun or buys it person to person from a non-criminal. He shoots someone and tries to hide the gun. The police find the gun. After running the gun's serial number, it's traced back to the non-criminal. Guess who's the number on suspect now? Hopefully his alibi checks out, but it's disturbing to read how many people were executed in the US that were later found to be innocent. You think that person to person background checks are a threat to a non-criminal sell, if anything the checks exonerate them of crimes committed with the weapon.

you still miss the words "well regulated."......

So, Smiley, are you part of a militia?

There are a number of states that are pushing back against the progressive left’s anti-gun agenda (http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/impeach-obama-over-anti-gun-agenda/).

Numerous states are standing up to the federal government by nullifying gun control measures within their borders (http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/states-nullifying-gun-control/).

Many other states, from Arizona (http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/az-passes-pro-gun-laws/) to West Virginia (http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/wv-passes-pro-gun-laws/), are passing pro-gun legislation that restores and expands the rights of gun owners.

Nebraska has joined that list now that Governor Dave Heineman signed Legislative Bill 699 into law, which will make positive changes to the gun laws of the state.  The law will take effect immediately due to an “emergency” clause.......


........    LB 699 repeals an outdated state firearms statute and brings state law into conformity with federal law by allowing Nebraska residents to purchase long guns in non-contiguous states.  This long-overdue reform will align Nebraska with forty other states that already allow their residents to purchase rifles and shotguns in non-contiguous states, provided that the purchase or transfer complies with state and federal law.  LB 699 repeals this antiquated restriction, allowing Nebraska residents the freedom to purchase long guns in states beyond their immediate borders.

    LB 699 also requires the reporting of records of persons unable to purchase or possess firearms due to a federal mental health disqualification — adjudicated mentally deficient or involuntarily committed to a mental institution — to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and changes provisions related to hunting licenses and hunter education programs.  Nebraska still retains a strong restoration of rights provision for those who have been involuntarily hospitalized or have been adjudicated mentally deficient, providing the ability for relief through an application process to the court system, allowing for restoration of gun rights.............continued

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-14, 00:06:51

So, Smiley, are you part of a militia?

Not by your definition. The wanna be regulators & gun-grabbers insist, erroneously, that the only valid "Militia" is the National Guard, but we all know that's only wishful thinking on their part....They don't like the definition, well then they change the definition(s) to suit their leftist agenda(s) claiming "it's a changing world, so definitions must change....". Isn't that convenient, & some head in their asses Americans follow blindly out of emotion.

As was defined in the 18th Century, & the only valid definition when defining the meaning of an 18 Century Document, the Militia is every able bodied American man who is of age.

I am the Militia, you are the Militia, & together we all are the Militia.

Don't like that, that's too bad, go pass a Constitutional Amendment, & change the definitions to suit you.


As for any so called "organized" Militias, they can fit the criteria, but membership in them is not required to be part of the Militia.

We are all part of the Militia, provided we are of age, & are able bodied.

No uniforms or titles required.

Us Pro- Second Amendment gun-owners will never become merely slaves with privileges, instead of citizens with rights!

Again, don't like that, that's too bad, go pass a Constitutional Amendment with words that suit you.....till then, suck it up princess, it is what it is.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FmzS0Qva.jpg&hash=e35e8f3d6b89b5277e455415ab724023" rel="cached" data-hash="e35e8f3d6b89b5277e455415ab724023" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/mzS0Qva.jpg)

In 1973, the draft ended in favor of an all volunteer military. Welcome to the 21st century, where just because you're over the age of 18 doesn't mean you're part of the militia. That time is long over.

But the quiet preparedness of denizens acclimated to freedom in these United States will have their say, and keep their ancient rights.
Sanguinemoon will benefit, however much he complains.

If I am, indeed, part of the militia, then I fully expect to be answerable to somebody........

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-15, 10:39:26

If I am, indeed, part of the militia, then I fully expect to be answerable to somebody........

[glow=blue,2,300]YOU are the Militia............ [/glow]You're only answerable to yourself, the guy you're fighting next to, & your Creator (if your a lost soul, only the first 2 apply .... for the time being that is)

Sanguine, you give the same old song and dance! And, if you're asked where your preferred prescription has been profitably enacted, your perennial reply is: Why, not widely enough! A city, a county, a state are too limiting for sensible regulation. Indeed, a nation may be!
You want control -- both senses apply.

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-15, 10:39:26

If I am, indeed, part of the militia, then I fully expect to be answerable to somebody........

[glow=blue,2,300]YOU are the Militia............ [/glow]You're only answerable to yourself, the guy you're fighting next to, & your Creator (if your a lost soul, only the first 2 apply .... for the time being that is)

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-06-15, 00:01:19

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-15, 10:39:26

If I am, indeed, part of the militia, then I fully expect to be answerable to somebody........

[glow=blue,2,300]YOU are the Militia............ [/glow]You're only answerable to yourself, the guy you're fighting next to, & your Creator (if your a lost soul, only the first 2 apply .... for the time being that is)

A "well regulated"militia as a command structure. Mjmsprt40, nor anybody else, can't proclaim himself a militia. As military units, a "well regulated" militia would be answerable to the President, as per the constitution. Sure, there are groups that proclaim themselves "militias" but not being answering to anyone but themselves, they are not "well regulated." The reason I keep repeating that phrase from the second amendment is that you guys don't get that part.

Citizens banding together because their community is under attack or is threatened with attack--OK, that concept of "militia" can be grasped. Somebody will be in charge, somebody will have an idea of what to do next, and if the citizens need to gather together to learn how to work together to defend the community against the coming assault, there will be a structure to make that happen. The type of "militia" which Smiley is promoting is no such thing, it's just the individual declaring himself to be sovereign in his own right.

Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the People at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped; and in order to see that this be not neglected, it will be necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of a year.

The difference, I think, is that I know that I can't proclaim myself a "militia", I'm not at all sure that Smiley has realized that yet. A one-man "militia", answerable only to himself, is a terrifying concept and one which sane people should be resistant to.

Citizens banding together because their community is under attack or is threatened with attack--OK, that concept of "militia" can be grasped. Somebody will be in charge, somebody will have an idea of what to do next, and if the citizens need to gather together to learn how to work together to defend the community against the coming assault, there will be a structure to make that happen. The type of "militia" which Smiley is promoting is no such thing, it's just the individual declaring himself to be sovereign in his own right.

[glow=blue,2,300]YOU are the Militia............ [/glow] You're only answerable to yourself,[shadow=grey,right] the guy you're fighting next to,[/shadow] & your Creator (if your a lost soul, only the first 2 apply .... for the time being that is)

Mike, just remember one thing.......throughout this simple example, you were, & always are the Militia.

It's not about control. It's about effectiveness.

Utopians (Progressives) usually prate about 'effectiveness'… And how, if only they were in control, there would be enough! Eventually......

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-06-15, 06:33:24

It's not about control. It's about effectiveness.

Utopians (Progressives) usually prate about 'effectiveness'… And how, if only they were in control, there would be enough! Eventually.
Would you also support the Precautionary Principle?

...And what is the NRA utopia, their end game? Mine is to simply reduce criminals access to guns. Of course, it's impossible to completely eliminate it.  That's hardly a Utopian vision.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace – but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

And what is the NRA utopia, their end game? Mine is to simply reduce criminals access to guns. Of course, it's impossible to completely eliminate it.

Fleegler and researchers from Boston Children's Hospital, Harvard Medical School and Harvard School of Public Health studied information from all 50 states between 2007 to 2010, analyzing all firearm-related deaths reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and data on firearm laws compiled by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

States with the most laws had a mortality rate 42% lower than those states with the fewest laws, they found. The strong law states' firearm-related homicide rate was also 40% lower and their firearm-related suicide rate was 37% lower.

Despite the findings, researchers did not establish a cause and effect relationship between guns and deaths. Rather, they could only establish an association.

That failure illustrates the limits of the study, said Garen Wintemute, an emergency physician and director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis.

"Policy makers can really draw no conclusion from this study," Wintemute said, explaining that the study doesn't provide critical answers to which laws work and why.

The larger problem is that the United States effectively stopped doing research on gun laws and violence 15 years ago and now has no evidence that shows causes and effect, he said.

Wintemute added, however, that he believes gun policies are important and can drive rates of violence down. In the future, researchers must look at how several factors including culture, gun ownership, and gun trafficking between states, he said.

Fleegler and his colleagues became interested in the relationship between gun laws and deaths last summer after the Trayvon Martin case sparked conversations about self-defense laws and the use of guns.

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-06-15, 19:55:19

And what is the NRA utopia, their end game? Mine is to simply reduce criminals access to guns. Of course, it's impossible to completely eliminate it.

As far as I know, the NRA doesn't propose a Utopia or an end-game. They simply support an ancient right supposedly secured to a free people…

You want to feel safe and secure; and unencumbered by an oppressive government… Pard, you can't get there from here. Leastwise, not by that road: Government regulation doesn't go there.
If you really want to reduce criminals' access to guns, get a concealed-carry permit! Most criminals are cowards and, by your own reasoning, every little bit helps. No?
But you'd rather the coercive might of the federal government absolve you of personal responsibility. Even if it does little or no actual good. Even if it does actual harm.
If I'm wrong, please explain how.

Science, Sang? Nah. Of course not…

Despite the findings, researchers did not establish a cause and effect relationship between guns and deaths. Rather, they could only establish an association.

That failure illustrates the limits of the study, said Garen Wintemute, an emergency physician and director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis.

"Policy makers can really draw no conclusion from this study," Wintemute said, explaining that the study doesn't provide critical answers to which laws work and why.

The larger problem is that the United States effectively stopped doing research on gun laws and violence 15 years ago and now has no evidence that shows causes and effect, he said.

Wintemute added, however, that he believes gun policies are important and can drive rates of violence down. In the future, researchers must look at how several factors including culture, gun ownership, and gun trafficking between states, he said.

Fleegler and his colleagues became interested in the relationship between gun laws and deaths last summer after the Trayvon Martin case sparked conversations about self-defense laws and the use of guns.

Despite the early lapses in grammar early-on in the article, I feel the reporters' pain! Spinning this 'correctly' must have been anguishing, and futile…

No statistics for the last 15 years?! Maybe they're hiding among Lerner's 2009-2011 emails…

Science, Sang? Nah. Of course not…
Despite the findings, researchers did not establish a cause and effect relationship between guns and deaths. Rather, they could only establish an association.



Despite the early lapses in grammar early-on in the article, I feel the reporters' pain! Spinning this 'correctly' must have been anguishing, and futile…

No statistics for the last 15 years?! Maybe they're hiding among Lerner's 2009-2011 emails…

Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

What do you think?
i think if access to mentall health is easier than access to the gun shop .

it will reduce the Guns issues .


why?

bc people with mentall health issues need -->  CBT , Haldol , lithium , alprazolam , etc .

--not a Gun .

Why is it called "gun control"? Do you call the regulations concerning driver's licences "car control"?

Why is it called "gun control"? Do you call the regulations concerning driver's licences "car control"?

Smiley, I gotta say that if you're wanting to keep the state from knowing what you have or even if you have, here in Illinois you're a trifle late legally.

In any case, it really doesn't bother me to have my paperwork in order, so that I can answer legally and constitutionally for any and all weapons I might possess. I have to have a driver's license, registration and proof of insurance to drive a car-- why should I not have legal paperwork to possess and use an arsenal?

Why Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms it's a matter of resistance.
As so, it's irrelevant what happens at already occupied societies where the only right people have is to conform, consume, obey.

American gun defensors, Europeans like it or not, are the last ones to keep on defending their right to resistance and actually doing something for it.
Criminal statistic minutiae is the weapon being used against populations so people don't get armed, so people can't ever resist.

This is not a matter of police and statistics, this is a mater of Freedom.

Quote from: ersi on 2014-06-16, 20:03:53

Why is it called "gun control"? Do you call the regulations concerning driver's licences "car control"?

That's what both sides of the political spectrum have decided to label it, so until further notice that's what it's called.

Oppression & Tyranny by any other names would dominate & subjugate just the same! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/guns4.gif)

Same old song and dance: Gun control works! (Except where it's tried — because they don't try hard enough…? DC? Chicago?) The available statistics (…the last 15 years, eh?) are murky, at best.
Cherry-picking data and performing feats of academic prestidigitation don't count for much.

Between 2007 and 2010, firearms were responsible for 31,224 to 31, 672 fatalities a year, with an average annual death rate ranging from a high of 17.9 per 100,000 individuals in Louisiana to a low of 2.9 per 100,000 in Hawaii. In 2010, firearms killed 68 percent of the homicide victims and 51 percent of the suicide victims.

“We found that the states with the greatest number of laws not only had dramatically lower firearm-associated homicide rates, but dramatically lower firearm-associated suicide rates as well,” says Fleegler.

Findings from the study include:

States with the most firearm legislation had a 42 percent lower overall firearm-associated mortality rate than states with the least legislation.

The firearm-associated homicide rate was 40 percent lower, and the firearm-related suicide rate 37 percent lower, in states with the most legislation.

There was no increase in non-firearm-associated fatalities in states with the most firearm legislation as compared to states with the least legislation.

The types of legislation associated most clearly with decreasing rates of firearm-related homicides and suicides involved universal background checks and requiring permits to purchase firearms.

States with the most firearm laws had the lowest levels of household gun ownership.

Fleegler notes that the study did not determine cause and effect, but instead established the association between firearm laws and firearm fatalities.

..........in addition the percentage of households owning guns actually decreased........

That's a terrifying thought.

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-18, 09:42:09

That's a terrifying thought.

What thought, that we like to fabricate our answers to pollsters?

In fact, it is correct that percentage of households with a gun has been decreasing for decades. Even if some people like you would lie (indicating that you probably shouldn't have a gun....) most tell the truth.

How many of the 300 million are decades old and not even in firing order?

.......However, if you want to know how many applications there are to buy guns each year, then the latest data from the FBI shows that 2012 looks like a bumper year for gun sales in America........

.......If you want to find out exactly how many guns are sold in the US each year, then the figures are not recorded........

.........The figures show that there have been 16,808,538 applications in 2012 so far to the end of November ^*. If they were approved, that would be enough weapons to stock every member of Nato's armed forces nearly five times over. The system has received 156,577,260 applications since 1998 and the US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world......

Even if some people like you would lie (indicating that you probably shouldn't have a gun....)

Comment & Response | November 25, 2013
Firearm Legislation and Gun-Related Fatalities
Anupam B. Jena, MD, PhD1; Eric C. Sun, MD, PhD2; Vinay Prasad, MD3
JAMA Intern Med. 2013;173(21):2011. doi:10.1001/jamainternmed.2013.9958.

To the Editor With regard to the study by Fleegler et al,1 critics of stronger gun control policies argue that there is no rational impetus to strengthen the laws. They note that gun-related deaths have remained constant over the last 10 years; 10.4 gun-related deaths per 100 000 in the United States in 2002 and 10.3 per 100 000 in 2011.
(source (http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1776998))

your proof, or again just your overactive fertile imagination??

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-06-17, 15:10:04

your proof, or again just your overactive fertile imagination??

Sorry to be so late to this part… But I take exception to your characterization of Sanguinemoon's imagination as "fertile"! Surely, you meant "fervid"? :)

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-06-18, 10:57:39

In fact, it is correct that percentage of households with a gun has been decreasing for decades. Even if some people like you would lie (indicating that you probably shouldn't have a gun....) most tell the truth.

And pray-tell how do you come to that conclusion.......(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/crystal-ball--small.gif)........your proof, or again just your overactive fertile imagination??

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-06-18, 10:57:39

How many of the 300 million are decades old and not even in firing order?

What imbecile claimed that they knew exactly how well how many of them worked?

Sounds leftist to me.......

Geeeez, was it you???  It was you, wasn't it........Sounds like your kind of polling! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/taunt.gif)

You mixin' yer cocaine with peyote again!!??? (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/biglaughlg9.gif)

The claim of the total number of guns in the US doesn't mean much anyway........

Years ago I took a solemn oath to protect & defend the United States Constitution from all enemies foreign or domestic..........The price I was willing to pay was the ultimate one.....I stand by that oath to this day, & evermore.

The Second Amendment is one of the most important rights set forth by the Bill of Rights.  The operative text states that “the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”  In spite of the clarity of this amendment, we have seen repeated, consistent, and sustained attacks on this right and efforts across the spectrum to “infringe” on this individual right.  In the Federalist No. 46, James Madison explained that because American citizens were typically armed, the federal government would be unable to exert power beyond the powers enumerated in the Constitution.  Madison explained that in contrast to European nations where “the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms” the Untied States would rely on an armed citizenry to protect themselves, their families, and the nation.  I will continue to oppose efforts to restrict, infringe, or remove this constitutionally protected right.  One important piece of pro-Second Amendment legislation that I have cosponsored is H.R. 822, the National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act.  This bill would allow any person with a valid concealed carry permit to carry a concealed firearm in any state that issues concealed permits, or at least does not prohibit carrying concealed firearms.  This requirement for states to recognize each other’s carry permits is not meant to create a federal licensing system or circumvent state law, but simply ease the transition for lawful gun owners traveling within right to carry states...........continued

This thread is devoted to Gun Control, & the Owning, Carrying, & the Using of Firearms by Ordinary Citizens.

What do you think about the National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act (http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2013/hr2959.aspx) ??

Right now, the Republicans can't stop running against Obama and get on the business of forging legislation for the good of the country, which means working with the opposition.

Because, Lord knows! We need more legislation…

"Thirty-one states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

--Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

We did. There are now over 45 Pink Pistols chapters nationwide, and more are starting up every day. We are dedicated to the legal, safe, and responsible use of firearms for self-defense of the sexual-minority community. We no longer believe it is the right of those who hate and fear gay, lesbian, bi, trans, or polyamorous persons to use us as targets for their rage. Self-defense is our RIGHT........,.,.continued

How about legislation to reduce some of the legislation? We have laws still on the books that have long outlived their usefulness, but law being what it is it will take a law to repeal the old law.

The media coverage given to the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case, and the attention paid to Florida’s “stand your ground” law, resulted in the legislature considering flaws in the law. They passed a reform bill that was signed by Governor Rick Scott yesterday, June, 20 2014. From tallahassee.com: “The legislation, which marks one of the most significant changes to the state’s self-defense laws since the 2012 killing of teenager Trayvon Martin, was one of nearly 60 bills signed by Scott on Friday.”..................continued

A military of a million, police forces with armoured cars, heavy guns everywhere what a dangerous country to live in. Must be if everyone needs a gun, machine gun or worse. Dear, oh dear.George Washington would be crying if he could see what has happened!

I have an idea you've been cherry-picking the news you get so the USA appears as bad as possible.

Don't let the propaganda fool you. It may surprise you to learn that some of us live without guns, and we're not afraid of our own shadows. I manage to drive through some rough looking neighborhoods without an armored car or heavy machine guns. I have an idea you've been cherry-picking the news you get so the USA appears as bad as possible. Shootings on every street corner, Al Capone and his mob ruling Chicago and all that sort of thing. It ain't necessarily so, Joe.

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-24, 03:50:28

Don't let the propaganda fool you. It may surprise you to learn that some of us live without guns, and we're not afraid of our own shadows. I manage to drive through some rough looking neighborhoods without an armored car or heavy machine guns. I have an idea you've been cherry-picking the news you get so the USA appears as bad as possible. Shootings on every street corner, Al Capone and his mob ruling Chicago and all that sort of thing. It ain't necessarily so, Joe.

Yup. I'm sure most metropolitan areas do have cars like that for, shall we say special occasions. But most of the police cruisers around here amount to somewhat suped up Crown Victorias  (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ford+crown+victoria&FORM=HDRSC2) and the newer ones are Dodge Chargers. The latter can look aggressive in some trims, but on other trim levels is just a full sized family car, hardly a war machine.

...........Michigan Governor Rick Snyder (R) signed into law a bill that expands firearms safety training opportunities for Michigan youth. House Bill 5085 (https://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28uv1gitrbkalao2exqpx4ikve%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2013-HB-5085), which took immediate effect as Public Act 201 of 2014, corrects an unduly burdensome restraint on youth firearm education by reasonably expanding the class of individuals who are allowed to supervise and instruct Michigan’s youth in the safe use of pistols.

"This new law makes it easier for young people to gain critical pistol safety training in a controlled environment," noted Chris W. Cox, Executive Director of the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action. "In the past, family members, scout leaders and even firearms range instructors could not instruct youth unless a parent was physically present. In practical terms, this will mean more Boy Scouts can qualify for pistol shooting merit badges and grandparents will now be able enjoy a day at the range with their grandkids." .........,Continued

Here in wild, exciting Villa Park, one of our trustees has counseled the town against buying Dodge Chargers. Seems the cars just aren't that good, are more expensive to keep maintained and don't compare to Fords for the same job. We do have some older cruisers with over 100K miles on them, so replacement is coming up--- but this trustee, who happens to be an auto technician in his day job, is saying don't buy Chargers. Looking at the police lot--- nope, no heavy war machines. Just Ford Crown Vics and a couple of Chargers, bought apparently before this trustee counselled against them.

I dare say on so-called firearm safety they will now be able to shoot better at school.

...   Education is a good thing.....yes?

What do you think?.......

Simple and easy stuff. But a bit pointless really.

.......,Oh, in case you're wondering, Telescopic sights are for wimps; V sights are for Men.

Most likely he just reads a bunch of anti-American crap like RT and sensationalist ragsheets like Daily Mail.   Villa Park might be small, but what about larger cities? Nope can't say I've actually seen a police armored car on the road, did see some civilian ones belonging to security companies transporting large amounts of money to and from banks though.

It is another corporate money spinner and guns and uniforms are big things in the land of child mindsets.

Quote from: string on 2014-07-01, 04:18:35

Simple and easy stuff. But a bit pointless really.

In what way?

Quote from: string on 2014-07-01, 04:18:35

.......,Oh, in case you're wondering, Telescopic sights are for wimps; V sights are for Men.

I wasn't, but I do wonder how many times you (or any of your so called 'manly' shooters) could repetitively hit a 30cm target at 500 meters using basic "V Sights"?
At that range & greater, when the lives of many others depend on your repetitious accuracy, your girlie "V Sights" are totally useless.
The majority of my kill shots were taken on targets in excess of 500 meters --- mostly between 800-1000 meters.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/guns13.gif)If I had missed, others (many others) would have died.

I am rather surprised this thread continues to go on.

Surely both sides covered most of the OP in the first 5 pages?

I am rather surprised this thread continues to go on.

Surely both sides covered most of the OP in the first 5 pages?  :sherlock:

That isn't to say that CCW holder can't end a hostage situation, but you do have to be smarter about it and more aware of your surroundings than most people are capable of or all you'll do it get yourself killed.

......carry guns just about anywhere even a library for goodness sake.

Well, well Smile you are still daft enough to live in that increasingly police State of a country.

ROSWELL, N.M. — A New Mexico judge rejected pleas for leniency Wednesday and handed down the maximum sentence for a then-12-year-old boy who opened fire in a Roswell middle school gym earlier this year, injuring two students.

State District Judge Freddie Romero ordered the boy, now 13, held in state custody until he is 21. His decision followed a daylong hearing in which the shooter apologized, the defense argued he was the victim of chronic bullying, and the two students wounded in the shooting detailed their permanent injuries.

Now, about gun control: Keep in mind, when you pull the trigger, that every action has an equal and opposite reaction and that will go a long way. Remember, too what the gun's safety is for and use it-- that helps too. If you're using a gun that ejects spent shells, remember that those shells have to go somewhere-- they don't teletransport into deep space, they fly out of the gun's action quite possibly back at you. I think that takes care of most of the stuff in the video-- keep these things in mind and maybe you can shoot without being shot by your own gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvz6cM_LeW4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvz6cM_LeW4)

Why do I get the feeling  most of those people aren't especially stupid, just what happens with the average person with a gun. Well, the exception might the guy whose pants fell down. I'm not really sure how that could have happened unless he's a true dumbass.

How about a little humor to lighten this up? While there were, regrettably, a couple of injuries in the video below, none appear to have done much more than wound pride.

Now, about gun control: Keep in mind, when you pull the trigger, that every action has an equal and opposite reaction and that will go a long way................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvz6cM_LeW4

Remember.........Proper training, & the consistently repetitive practice of proper safety techniques, is the only way to ensure safe & successful use of your firearms.

Have fun!

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-07-06, 00:16:54

Remember.........Proper training, & the consistently repetitive practice of proper safety techniques, is the only way to ensure safe & successful use of your firearms.

Have fun!

But how many people actually get that? There's actually little reason not to. A firearms range maybe 1/2 mile from my house offers free CCW classes and isn't the only range in Las Vegas to do this.

The country is made an almost laughing stock of the world due to the dreadful elementary brans of the gunners. You can't help but feel sorry for the sensible people who must sigh.

The country is made an almost laughing stock of the world due to the dreadful elementary brans of the gunners.

Texas Senator John Cornyn has introduced new legislation that if passed would allow concealed carry holders to travel from state to state without fear of breaking the law. The idea is similar to national reciprocity and concealed carry permits would be recognized as legal just like a drivers license.............

A dramatic spike in the number of Americans with permits to carry concealed weapons coincides with an equally stark drop in violent crime, according to a new study, which Second Amendment advocates say makes the case that more guns can mean safer streets.

The study by the Crime Prevention Research Center (http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Concealed-Carry-Permit-Holders-Across-the-United-States.pdf) found that 11.1 million Americans now have permits to carry concealed weapons, up from 4.5 million in 2007. The 146 percent increase has come even as both murder and violent crime rates have dropped by 22 percent.......continued

Quote

“When you allow people to carry concealed handguns, you see changes in the behavior of criminals."