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Topic: What's Going on in Europe (Read 257336 times)

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #950 –
Cheers to the EU president for trolling British PM Theresa May about Brexit.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #951 –
Nice try boy but we are getting out of that shambles lot who are still in a mess...hooray!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #952 –
Catalonia's political struggle for independence went pretty nasty this time. Spain has now taken Catalonia's autonomy away. The regional assembly is dissolved and the regional president is wanted for rebellion.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #953 –
This article has some background info on the right to rebellionresist: http://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5102&context=journal_articles

Perhaps of particular interest is the German constitution
Quote
Gegen jeden, der es unternimmt, diese Ordnung zu beseitigen, haben alle Deutschen das Recht zum Widerstand, wenn andere Abhilfe nicht möglich ist.

Quote from: Translated on p. 1248
Article 20 (4): All Germans shall have the right to resist any persons seeking to abolish this constitutional order, if no other remedy is available.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #954 –
The Silence of the Damned: Catalonia’s Separation from Spain
“Can you hear the silence? Something isn’t right.”
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On October 1, nearly 900 people were injured by European police in a major European city…and there was silence from the European Union.
On October 2, ...

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #955 –
Catalonia as an independent country has absolutely no chance of survival and will create nothing but suffering for the population.

Financial and industrial companies are already leaving, no jobs, Catalonians will be no European citizens without being able to circulate freely, currency will be an anecdote, no more Eu funds, etc.

Basically they will turn part of Morocco...
A matter of attitude.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #956 –
Catalonia is one of the richest provinces in Spain in hard practice but it has no right to go on with the nonsense of being "independent." The Renumbered was illegal and what was it around 40% of the voters took part which means from the start it had a minority situation. An awful lot of people do not want to be independent and that is being ignored by these emotional idiots The EU is against the Catalonia nationalist nonsense and so are other major countries as well. It would not continue to be in the EU  nor get support either. Spain is right to take a strong stand on a damn minority.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #957 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
Spain is right to take a strong stand on a damn minority.
Well spoken by a wannabe ex-colonist whos by now defunct empire enslaved once almost 25% of the world's population.  :up:


Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #958 –
People forget that the first objective of the European Union is to be the most important project in the history of mankind to achieve permanent Peace amongst Nations. It has worked better than any other before.
Both Brexit and Catalonia will have to assume their responsibility in causing it's destruction.
A matter of attitude.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #959 –
Quote from: Belfrager on
People forget that the first objective of the European Union is to be the most important project in the history of mankind to achieve permanent Peace amongst Nations. It has worked better than any other before.
Both Brexit and Catalonia will have to assume their responsibility in causing it's destruction.

I count it as a flaw and mistake of European Union that it is doing absolutely nothing in the Catalonia situation. As a minimum, EU should try some negotiating diplomacy, to send some observers and mediators. With a proper moderate-key mandate, it would not turn the situation worse. Such practice at mediating internal nuisances is very much needed for EU.

As it is now, the people have the (correct) impression that the EU is led by the top political clique for the top political clique, nothing else. The leaders only bark orders to the lower levels. When they don't know what to bark, they pretend there is nothing happening that would deserve their attention.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #960 –
Quote from: ersi on
I count it as a flaw and mistake of European Union that it is doing absolutely nothing in the Catalonia situation.
Course not, it doesn't encourage suicide.

Belgium offered asylum for the traitor that's more than enough.
A matter of attitude.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #961 –
May I remind you S ANOTHER  limited ex-colonist that you really do have a damn nerve when you consider that you have had a global corporate empire for decades. In addition undermine countries that do not wish to be controlled by you or even invaded. So you have no high moral ground as a base and I would also remind you (again here) that all those countries in the British Commonwealth of Nations organisation  were formerly in our great Empire. They joined it by themselves so dear man proverbially put that in your intellectual pipe and smoke it!  :D

As for the tripe from Belfrager on the greatness being implied on the European Union it is hardly that wonderfully democratic being controlled by non-elected people. Neither is it out of it's Euro currency probs. Another thing constantly ignored by Euro supporters is that each year the EU parliament cannot balance the books or get them okayed and that is okay? Thank Heavens we are getting out. :up:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #962 –
Quote from: Belfrager on
Course not, it doesn't encourage suicide.

Belgium offered asylum for the traitor that's more than enough.
Belgium is offering Puigdemont a political seppuku. It should not have gone this far. When there's a referendum in EU, it should not look like a civil war.

EU too often fails to act where necessary and acts where unnecessary in damaging ways. Failing to act: Yugoslavian wars and Crimean crisis. Acting: Building gas tubes with Russia in the midst of the Baltic Sea and hoping for visa freedom with Russia, ignoring ecological and the far more grave geopolitical concerns; political blockade on Austria when Haider's party won elections, even before the government had been formed. In the light of those swift and sweeping policies and actions, it's eerily in character that the EU is silent when democracy needs encouraging. 

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #964 –
Quote from: ersi on
EU too often fails to act where necessary and acts where unnecessary in damaging ways. Failing to act: Yugoslavian wars and Crimean crisis. Acting: Building gas tubes with Russia in the midst of the Baltic Sea and hoping for visa freedom with Russia, ignoring ecological and the far more grave geopolitical concerns
I agree with your first sentence but your examples are totaly wrong, probably driven by pathologic Russophobia.

- The EU didn't fail to act in the Yugoslavian wars. On the contrary, it did act as a catalizator.
By the split up, the EU extended its influence and markets while the USA got its new military bases in the region.
- Speaking of the Crimean crisis - by supporting the putch in the Ukraine, the EU and its US ally where the architects of the Crimea crisis in the first place.
- Europe needs gas and it needs it at an affordable price. It's a fact. Another fact - the Ukraine is not a reliable transit route. One billion ersis couldn't change this facts for now.
- Ecological concerns because of Russian gas? What would be your alternatives? Atomic energy? Coal? Gas obtained by fracking?
- Geopolitical concerns? Geopolitical concerns of whom? Geopolitical concerns of the USA and yours?
A few countries within the EU are indeed opposing the Baltic route but not because it's gas from Russia but because they hoped that the gas route will cross their own country and they will benefit from transit taxes.
Besides, it's up to each country to give up Russian gas and import wherever from.
As for geopolitical concerns, the EU did the dumbest thing possible by driving Russia in China's arms.
After all that's what the USA was striving for and I wonder how they'll try to solve the dilemma...

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #965 –
Quote from: krake on
- The EU didn't fail to act in the Yugoslavian wars. On the contrary, it did act as a catalizator.
By the split up, the EU extended its influence and markets while the USA got its new military bases in the region.
When the EU acts in USA's Kielwasser, I count it as failure to act, because in such cases the EU is only acting re(tro)actively, with delay, and by someone else's playbook, not proactively and independently.

Quote from: krake on
- Speaking of the Crimean crisis - by supporting the putch in the Ukraine, the EU and its US ally where the architects of the Crimea crisis in the first place.
Again the EU was not proactive and independent here. It was outright paralysed.

Quote from: krake on
- Europe needs gas and it needs it at an affordable price. It's a fact. Another fact - the Ukraine is not a reliable transit route. One billion ersis couldn't change this facts for now.
Not just that Ukraine is an unreliable route, but also that Russia is an unreliable provider. That's a fact that one billion krakes couldn't change. Which is why the EU should have had a totally different foreign policy with regard to both Ukraine and Russia - independent of USA. Eating from Putin's hand does not work and will never work. Everybody knew that before the worst happened, but the EU learned it the hard way by being part cause to the worst,[1] and I still don't think they learned it properly. For Germans and the French, Russia seems sufficiently far away, so they think they can afford continued stupidity.
  
Quote from: krake on
- Ecological concerns because of Russian gas? What would be your alternatives? Atomic energy? Coal? Gas obtained by fracking?
You are a big rich country, you will have to invent your own alternatives. The gas tubes in the Baltic Sea endanger the ecology of the sea for those who depend on it for life while there is no benefit from the tubes to us (Poland and the Baltic countries), political, ecological or economic.

This is the idiotic suicidal EU I am talking about: Despite everything, give all the money to Putin and blatantly urinate on your own members and interests. On the positive side, at least this is fairly consistent, so we have a good idea where we stand.
 
Quote from: krake on
- Geopolitical concerns? Geopolitical concerns of whom? Geopolitical concerns of the USA and yours?
Russia has always been an aggressor in the region: Abkhazia and Transnistria were frozen conflict zones for so long that it was apparent that Putin was seeking for an expansion of military activity, and then it happened with Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. These are the kind of geopolitical concerns. Rationally, none of this can be of any interest to the USA, but all of it is directly relevant to the EU, if the EU cares about its members and neighbours, about human rights, and - perhaps - about the security of its gas and oil sources. But of course, the EU is too stupid to demonstrate any actual care about anything or at least to be able to secure gas and oil for itself without pissing on itself.

1 Crimea and Eastern Ukraine is the worst for the time being, but it will still get worse.↵
 

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #966 –
Russia has always been the aggressor?? What a mind controlled load of lack of knowledge that is.

We got the usual control guff from America hinting that the Russian Federation would invade the Baltic States. Head shaking nonsense and pushed by America the world's greatest interferer and manipulator of countries. And if you don't agree with the country you can expect subtle propaganda and nonsense. Ukraine is as corrupt as Hell and owed Russia a massive amount for power supply but of course just ignore the points.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #967 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
Russia has always been the aggressor?? What a mind controlled load of lack of knowledge that is.
Let's put it this way: Has England/UK ever been the aggressor?

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #968 –
@ersi
I won't reply to your usual Russia rant. It gets tiresome and ridiculous over the time.
Just some reminder for you:
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For Germans and the French, Russia seems sufficiently far away, so they think they can afford continued stupidity.
Don't expect neither Germany nor France to tailor their policies to fit your pathologic beliefs. ;)
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You are a big rich country, you will have to invent your own alternatives.
Is Estonia out of any problems so you are moving to teach Germany?
I can assure you that whatever we will invent or not, you'd be the last person we would take lessons from.
BTW, good luck with your shale gas. :)
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there is no benefit from the tubes to us (Poland and the Baltic countries), political, ecological or economic.
Keep in mind ersi that Poland and the Baltic states are part of the EU and not vice versa.
To formulate it more directly - we couldn't care less if Poland and the Baltic states don't need the tubes.
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But of course, the EU is too stupid to demonstrate any actual care about anything or at least to be able to secure gas and oil for itself
Well, Germany did try once to secure gas and oil from Russia. Hmm, as you know it didn't end very well, neither for Germany nor for the Baltic states.
As for your pathologic fear to get overrun by the red army - WTF do you think Russia's benefit would be? The Holy Grail hidden in Kersti's bed?
Relax, you are safe even if you are in the possesion of the Holy Grail. President Trump takes care of you as Obama did and NATO tanks are on the alert to crush anytime the bolshevik invador of your nightmares. ;)

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #969 –
What a bunch of lunatics.
A matter of attitude.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #970 –
Quote from: krake on
As for your pathologic fear to get overrun by the red army - WTF do you think Russia's benefit would be? The Holy Grail hidden in Kersti's bed?
We have a difference of opinion here. In my view, countries that overrun other countries have a serious pathology to deal with, more than those that get overrun. I am not speculating here. Both Russia and Germany have done this in history, so I remain unfazed by your plain assertions that have no basis.

What would be the benefit for Russia? Well, what was the benefit last time and the time before that? Benefit or not, I am talking about historically recurring events. It's called knowing your neighbours - by their actual behaviour.

And I note how from EU geopolitics you turned into something country-specific, as if there were no EU that must consider its own geopolitics. The facts remain: The Baltic countries are EU members, Russia is not, so a non-pathological EU would keep in mind Baltic interests and not eat from Putin's hand. But the EU has failed at judging Russia's character very badly, even overriding the warnings of Baltic experts who are supposedly EU members. And the EU constantly falls for US trickery too. Such is the pathological character of the EU.

Quote from: krake on
To formulate it more directly - we couldn't care less if Poland and the Baltic states don't need the tubes.
I know: EU does not care, USA does not care, Merkel does not care, Putin does not care. They do whatever idiotic comes to their head and, once it's in their head, they will not listen to reason. This is exactly the pathology.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #971 –
Quote from: ersi on
I know: EU does not care, USA does not care, Merkel does not care, Putin does not care. They do whatever idiotic comes to their head and, once it's in their head, they will not listen to reason. This is exactly the pathology.
Yeah, this is how you see pathology and it doesn't come as a surprise. ;)

- The EU couldn't even afford to care. Energy supply for the EU is too important. It can't be conditioned to Baltic and Polish resentments.
Of course, every EU member state has the right to voice its oppinion but that's it. Neither you nor the Baltic states or Poland have the authority to decide wat's best for the EU. At least not yet. As soon as the Baltic states and Poland will become the driving force in the EU, things will change. Be patient till then.
- The USA cares a lot. So you are wrong again. It has lot of understanding for your resentments. It even fuels them whenever it can. After all you can't ignore useful idiots. It will try to hinder the Baltic tube by all means. Imagine Putin urinating in the tube.  :o
Clean US shale gas instead of dirty Russian gas. America first!!! So there is still hope for you. :)

A good example worth to follow by the EU would be the Ukraine. They don't import coal from the separatists anymore.
The USA agreed promtly to offer a helping hand. Now Ukrainians combust US coal which is as good or even better since the smoke contains democracy particles. Only minor disadvantage is that US coal is more expensive. Ya know, business is business.
Now the Ukraine has to pay more than the dubble amount of the price they did pay the separatists for best quality anthracite. The price is also almost 50% higher than Russian coal would cost. But who cares if you live in such a rich country like the Ukraine and you get the chance to teach Putin a lesson. ;)

BTW,
the funny part, the separatists are selling now coal to - guess whom?
Poland  :no:

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #972 –
Quote from: krake on
As for your pathologic fear to get overrun by the red army - WTF do you think Russia's benefit would be? The Holy Grail hidden in Kersti's bed?
Isn't the right question something more along the lines of "WTF do you think Russia thinks its benefit would be?"

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #973 –
Quote from: krake on
Neither you nor the Baltic states or Poland have the authority to decide wat's best for the EU.
Regardless of any authority to decide, there are some glaringly obvious geopolitical facts that intelligent leaders would observe. EU is very stupid, so I personally don't want any authority in it anyway.

Quote from: krake on
- The USA cares a lot. So you are wrong again. It has lot of understanding for your resentments. It even fuels them whenever it can.
Guess who fuels resentments here far more than EU and USA combined? Russia. To get the real picture, you need to look past emotions. Unfortunately at critical moments, Germany and France rode on the wave of euphoria, Merkel hoping for visa freedom (and even for Russia's membership of EU - a worse lunacy than Ukrainian and Turkish membership, which are insane ideas enough) and France selling warships for Russia's Black Sea fleet, so they had it easier to take over Crimea.

Yes, resentments are bad. Euphoria is equally bad. This is why I stick to facts.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #974 –
You are being brained ersi by the standard well organised propaganda regarding Russia. That country is NOT the most dangerous place on the planet.  Anywhere that dares to challenge the routine world controllers is done in!
"Quit you like men:be strong"