Where debating everything under the sun is only the beginning

Except, as I noted, results like that are always a big, steaming pile of bullshit. The Tatars (12% of the population) don't want to be part of Russia for historical reasons and said so. I'm not sure the Ukrainians (24% of the population) do either. The Ethnic Russians account for 58% (down from 67%.)  There's no way for that referendum to not have been rigged.

How is Russia possibly not the aggressor? Their troops spread from the base and took over Crimea, Russian troops amassed on the Ukrainian border and the fucking launched an ICBM (albeit unarmed ) at the Ukraine, and sank a Ukrainian ship.

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-03-18, 15:12:27

Except, as I noted, results like that are always a big, steaming pile of bullshit. The Tatars (12% of the population) don't want to be part of Russia for historical reasons and said so. I'm not sure the Ukrainians (24% of the population) do either. The Ethnic Russians account for 58% (down from 67%.)  There's no way for that referendum to not have been rigged.

What your math is worth for, keep in mind that voter turnout was around 75%-80%. So basically the referendum was rejected by at least 20% of Crimeans.
The 95.5% are the result of those who took part at the referendum.

May I remind you Sanguinemoon you fit neatly into the silly side of the Western propaganda? Kosovo was a province of the Republic of Serbia and held a referendum in which the majority were Albanian ethnics and guess what there was a small minority of Serbs who objected just like you say about the Tatars.  Somehow that was of course fine but the Crimea principle is different? Wake up. Putin has already publicly stated on television  that the minorities will be recognised and there will be 3 offical languages - namely Russia, Tatar and Ukrainian. The murderous coup lot in Kiev canclled Russian at the start as an offical language even though they knew the ethnic leaning in the east and Crimea (where over 90% speak Russian). So it was okay for Kosovo which was led by the KLA funded by drug running but somehow not in Crimea. When you cannotjustify the similarity you result to the rather immatre thing the vote was fixed. Not according to foreign watchers who were present.

The West thinks it has some inherent God-given right to do what it wants and stuff anyone who challenges them. That they cannot control a country in this case Russia gets right up their arrogant  noses. The rebellion take over in Ukraine was led by militant and vicious thugs from the neo-Nazi quarter (some had SS symbols on the back of their helmets) and they took over a legitimate government and therefore illegal. They ignored their own constitution because it souited them and now the bleat that Crimea is acting un-constitutionally. May I remind you and the other lapdogs that Crimea has a legitimate government unlike Kiev. So9 you and others condemn the Crimeans but applaud the dangerous illegal lot in Kiev? Kiev totally ignored any consultation with the east or south of the country as they were hell-bent on their own agenda and stuff anyone else.

It is not Russia that is causing the problem it is the dangerous cabal in Kiev allied with the hypocritical West creating all sorts of propaganda nonsense. All the tripe about invasdions is just that - tripe and the propaganda here in our media is unbelievable! There is no independent news reporting it is all partisan. Try Kiev if there is any further disintegration and when you consider that Putin has said he would rather see Ukraine sorting itself you of course choose to ignore that and absorb the braining of the propagandist machine here in the West.

As for trying to contain a powerful nation,like Russia through sanctions will also be bad for us let us not forget. The West has been too fond of thinking it has the moral high ground for some reason beyond comprehension.

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-03-18, 15:12:27

Except, as I noted, results like that are always a big, steaming pile of bullshit. The Tatars (12% of the population) don't want to be part of Russia for historical reasons and said so. I'm not sure the Ukrainians (24% of the population) do either. The Ethnic Russians account for 58% (down from 67%.)  There's no way for that referendum to not have been rigged.

What your math is worth for, keep in mind that voter turnout was around 75%-80%. So basically the referendum was rejected by at least 20% of Crimeans.
The 95.5% are the result of those who took part at the referendum.

While ethnicity might have been an important factor at the ballot box, it for sure wasn't the only one. Material damage considerations might have been an important factor too. The IMF will impose draconic austerity measures. (e.g. cutting of social spendings - pensions halved, increase of gas prices up to 100%, increased prices for electricity up to 40%, depreciation of the local currency, and so on).  

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-03-18, 15:12:27

How is Russia possibly not the aggressor? Their troops spread from the base and took over Crimea, Russian troops amassed on the Ukrainian border and the fucking launched an ICBM (albeit unarmed ) at the Ukraine, and sank a Ukrainian ship.

Russia launching an ICMB at the Ukraine?
Where did you got that nonsense from? Another spam mail?

According to Caitlin Hayden, spokeswoman of the National Security Council, it was a routine test launch of an ICBM and Russia provided advance notification of this launch to the United States as required under the New START Treaty.

Quote from: ersi on 2014-03-18, 05:30:07

I consider troops all over the place during a referendum as invasion. It's everywhere in the media, unless you are wilfully blind http://yle.fi/uutiset/venaja_kokoaa_krimille_raskaita_aseita__ukrainan_sotilaat_pyytavat_kaskyja/7139315

Russiam military all over the place during the referendum? Like in the picuture you are linking to? Is the building we see in the background a polling station? Are the two ladies we see in the picture coming from the polling?

Quote from: ersi on 2014-03-18, 05:30:07

You missed - again - where the international border runs. It may very well be that Saakashvili started the assault on Aug 8, 2008, but he was within his own borders, whereas Russians were not and are not. Plus Russians reportedly attacked outside South Ossetia into Georgia proper too, just like they are all over Crimea now, not only at the military base. Saakashvili didn't start Russia's military presence in South Ossetia and Ukrainians didn't start Russia's military presence in Sevastopol.

International borders? That idiot was within his borders?

......America, time after time, has interfered with, disrupted countries then destroyed them when it suited.  Often using the claptrap of looking after their interests.......

Yes, Krake. An ICBM "test fired" over the Ukraine. Routine my ass.

Breaking news: PUTIN wants to annex Josh for repeated bastardization of the English language, amid fears he (Josh) may be corrected by native English speakers.  

Edit: As the news says, last night Ukrainian minister of defence gave permission to Ukrainian soldiers to use arms in self-defence. This is too late.

I think I know where you are coming from. The only way your position can make sense is that you have a bunch of national guilt towards Russians from WWII. You think Russians suffered a lot back then and now you can show your gracious support for compensation.

To me it's not a West against East situation, but a gloomy threat to everyone between West and East - again.

Josh will explain to Obama that Pootin isn't the president of Russia.

Quote from: ersi on 2014-03-19, 03:02:12

Edit: As the news says, last night Ukrainian minister of defence gave permission to Ukrainian soldiers to use arms in self-defence. This is too late.

Too late you say?
Imagine the carnage if that order would have been given in due time in an attempt to stop the Crimeans.

Quote from: ersi on 2014-03-19, 03:02:12

I think I know where you are coming from. The only way your position can make sense is that you have a bunch of national guilt towards Russians from WWII. You think Russians suffered a lot back then and now you can show your gracious support for compensation.

You are utterly wrong. I feel no guilt for things I or my generation is not responsible for. In contrast to some others I'm living in the present and the only thing I care for is the future.

Quote from: ersi on 2014-03-19, 03:02:12

To me it's not a West against East situation, but a gloomy threat to everyone between West and East - again.

A gloomy threat to everyone between West and East?
You mean 'New Europe' where resentments and pathologic fears are easier to get stirred up? A great opportunity for geostrategic games. Even fascists are welcomed as they were in times of ideologic war ("Gladio", you probably heard of it).

Europe has many common interests with the USA.
To be used as a chessman on the US geostrategic interest chessboard is not one of them!!!

Europe has many common interests with the USA.
To be used as a chessman on the US geostrategic interest chessboard is not one of them!!!

I don't think either we (the EU) or Russia much care what the US thinks about this.

Crimea belongs now to Russia. What will stupid Americans do? 
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Other Answers (17)Oldest

StephenG answered 8 hrs ago
No it doesn't
21

Chemical Goldblum answered 8 hrs ago
we dont actually care
11

Richard England answered 8 hrs ago
I'll be 1 step behind you..

Half a league, half a league,
  Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death,
  Rode the six hundred.
'Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

'Forward, the Light Brigade!'
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldiers knew
  Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
  Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
  Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
  Rode the six hundred.

Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army while
  All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel'd from the sabre-stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
  Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
  Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
  All the world wonder'd.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
  Noble six hundred!

In this case your position makes absolutely no sense

Hmm, so all the historical wars and occupations that swept over these territories were the fault of the people who suffered from it?

So you prefer to be the chessman of Russia's geostrategic interests. Whereas I refuse to be a chess piece at all.

There is a single profiteer. The actual situation is a win win situation for someone.
It isn't the Ukrainian people, it isn't Russia (nor Putin), nor can it be any European country (Fuck the EU).

And who has created such situation? Mrs Merkel.