Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #575 – 2014-07-26, 00:22:15 IMHO many people oftenly trapped in black or white , and gray logical fallacy , etc .when faced argument about theist-atheist . no matter in condition theist or atheist. Speak about religion is like searching the nest of Wind .there is no point , and there is no End of it . that's how people who speak about religion mostly are lack of social skills , and cant make another topics beside religion .
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #576 – 2014-07-26, 12:59:49 What a rather tenuous comment that is in the last line. Must be tiring being a know it all intellect.
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #577 – 2014-07-26, 14:07:16 Quote from: Sparta on 2014-07-26, 00:22:15that's how people who speak about religion mostly are lack of social skills , and cant make another topics beside religion .I don't have the time or inclination to be involved with every thread on this site simply because of my other social pursuits. I choose my battles--you are a scattered hit-and-run mercenary for any and all battles. Nothing wrong with either, I suppose. In a few hours I have a date to sip Margaritas with an insanely younger woman while overlooking the warm Atlantic-Caribbean and discussing whatever comes into her cute little head, but it's a toss-up between that and discussing Putin's Russia on another DnD thread--can you help me out here?
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #578 – 2014-07-26, 17:31:38 Sir , some people are just dont speak alot , in real , or in internet . i guess that's explain, how -- scattered hit-and-run mercenary illusion created .also i dont see , there are any rules in this forum to not make some comment , post , ask , discuss , or Science about something , aslong dont break the TOS . i didnt intend to somehow -- Argumentum ad Hominem , really ..that's just a opinion .
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #579 – 2014-07-27, 01:05:19 Fine, so why are you on my case? Am I not allowed the same freedoms as you?
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #580 – 2014-07-31, 05:39:25 Here's a funny one: Could an Atheist Pass a Lie Detector Test while Proclaiming Atheism?On the face of it an empirical question, but can be made philosophically interesting given the way I construe philosophical commitment. Logical coherence is of paramount importance in any system, including a system of belief (which atheism is). I believe that coherence has the best chances to reflect into internal conviction psychologically. When internal conviction has been built this way, it will be possible to pass lie detectors that ask about convictions.
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #581 – 2014-07-31, 10:43:06 Another round on the "atheism is a system of belief" bullshit... (which could be applied, to some measure, to militant atheists, of course, but not to atheism, which is more accurately a non-system of non-belief).Lie detectors don't validate logical coherence of whatever. They just validate if somebody really believes what he's saying is true.
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #582 – 2014-07-31, 10:53:01 Quote from: Barulheira on 2014-07-31, 10:43:06Another round on the "atheism is a system of belief" bullshit... (which could be applied, to some measure, to militant atheists, of course, but not to atheism, which is more accurately a non-system of non-belief).You mean atheism does not need to meet some minimal standards of evidence and coherence? (If this standard does not apply to atheism, then it would indeed not be a system of belief. It would be mere belief, unsystematic.)Quote from: Barulheira on 2014-07-31, 10:43:06Lie detectors don't validate logical coherence of whatever. They just validate if somebody really believes what he's saying is true.I was saying the same thing. Nice to agree once in a lifetime.
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #583 – 2014-07-31, 11:15:01 Quote from: Barulheira on 2014-07-31, 10:43:06Lie detectors don't validate logical coherence of whatever. They just validate if somebody really believes what he's saying is true.Here, lie detectors are not considered a legal valid proof and its usage forbidden at polices and courts.No only by the reason you say but also because, as any other machine, it can be falsified. Besides, it's against human dignity to be forced to subject to a machine in order to determine the veracity of people's words.Other people will try to determine, based in facts, if what you say it's true or false, not machines.Lie detectors are at the top of materialism and obscurantism. QI tests the same thing.
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #584 – 2014-07-31, 11:43:29 @ersi: You said "it will be possible to pass lie detectors that ask about convictions". Now I see you where speaking hypothetically. Very well. (Although I'd prefer you used "it would" instead.)We have agreed in more than you have been aware. When I was young, saying somebody is an atheist meant simply that he didn't believe in God. It didn't require him to believe another way, to have whatever convictions, anything. That's what I call atheism - it isn't a system of any sort. Later on, somebody felt the need to categorize a whole lot of "atheisms" (agnosticism, strong atheism, weak atheism, militant atheism, whatever atheism, a-religionism...) which has done a real mess with what people are talking about when they refer to atheism. As I can see, most of what is said in these forums applies to the militant kind of atheism, that is, to the one that tries do convince others that God (or gods) does not exist. This is a system of belief, somehow. I'm clearly not of that kind.
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #585 – 2014-07-31, 11:58:54 Quote from: Barulheira on 2014-07-31, 11:43:29Now I see you where speaking hypothetically. Very well. (Although I'd prefer you used "it would" instead.)For my purposes, lie detector is not at issue at all. Conviction is. And for intellectuals, convictions are shaped by logic - convincing argumentation.Quote from: Barulheira on 2014-07-31, 11:43:29When I was young, saying somebody is an atheist meant simply that he didn't believe in God. It didn't require him to believe another way, to have whatever convictions, anything. That's what I call atheism - it isn't a system of any sort. Later on, somebody felt the need to categorize a whole lot of "atheisms" (agnosticism, strong atheism, weak atheism, militant atheism, whatever atheism, a-religionism...) which has done a real mess with what people are talking about when they refer to atheism. When you were young, nobody had elaborated on what atheism entails? You mean your youth pre-dates Marx? I grew up in a Marxist-Leninist country where it was quite inevitable to define one's own (a)theism.Quote from: Barulheira on 2014-07-31, 11:43:29As I can see, most of what is said in these forums applies to the militant kind of atheism, that is, to the one that tries do convince others that God (or gods) does not exist. This is a system of belief, somehow. I'm clearly not of that kind.What kind are you then?
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #586 – 2014-07-31, 12:14:31 @Barulheira Your Weltanschauung (worldview) is a belief system. The problem here is purely definitional. Atheism is a part of your belief system and has logical consequences for your belief system, but it is not by itself a belief system. A belief system is not a religion, but a religion necessarily entails a belief system.Quote from: ersi on 2014-07-31, 11:58:54When you were young, nobody had elaborated on what atheism entails? You mean your youth pre-dates Marx? I grew up in a Marxist-Leninist country where it was quite inevitable to define one's own (a)theism.No.
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #587 – 2014-07-31, 12:21:21 That's what I'm trying to explain. Saying you are not a Republican does not mean you are a Democrat. Saying you don't believe in God doesn't imply you are subscribing to whatever other beliefs. That's what we used to call atheism. A generic word applied to those that don't believe in God.My kind is... well... which kinds exist officially, so that I can pick one? And who's categorizing them?
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #589 – 2014-07-31, 12:57:46 @BarulheiraTo provide some hopefully clarifying conceptual background to my post today, I'm actually interested in a whole different thing than atheism versus theism divide. I am interested in the depth of people's convictions. I am not interested if you are theist or atheist (you are either one or the other, so this is a trivial no-brainer). I am interested in if you can provide support for your stance, what kind of support it is, whether traditional inertia or logico-philosophical, attempt to appeal to certain kind of people or a career choice. That kind of thing.It doesn't matter what you believe or if you believe anything at all. It matters how you justify it.
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #590 – 2014-07-31, 13:10:00 Nice.I think I have already done it somewhere else, but I will try to summarize it here.I was an ardent and happy Protestant believer, seeking the full knowledge of God. I ended up finding his silence, absence, and irrelevance. This is not what God should be. He should be glorious and self-evident. I inevitably lost my faith in his existence, and in fact there is no way to recover it.So I started to be a somewhat unhappy atheist, but now I'm quite well used to it. I still attend in the church, giving classes to teenagers and playing in the band. I don't teach what to believe, but how to believe and behave according to what we believe.
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #591 – 2014-07-31, 15:57:50 @BarulheiraIt must be frustrating to expect dramatic revelations and end up empty-handed. But don't despair. My comprehensive taxonomy of atheism has a category for you too:INTERMEDIATE AGNOSTIC: I don't know if God exists. I tried and could not figure it out.Glad to be of help
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #592 – 2014-07-31, 16:01:55 You are all about labels, so I was sure you would find one to me. But you are mistaken. I'm close to 7: I'm sure that God doesn't exist. I just can't prove it because it is impossible.But I prefer to be called "heretic Protestant atheist living in a Catholic country". We are going to take on the world. Wait and see!
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #593 – 2014-07-31, 16:27:29 i dont think a Lie detector is always accurate .in example , someone suffered with Delusional Syndrom .They believe something , they believe if that's true .and they say the truth .Even that truth are just Lies .
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #594 – 2014-07-31, 18:06:28 Quote from: Barulheira on 2014-07-31, 16:01:55But I prefer to be called "heretic Protestant atheist living in a Catholic country"You seem to me more a Catholic atheist, you know those that don't believe in God but are devoted to Saints...
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #596 – 2014-07-31, 18:20:01 Quote from: ersi on 2014-07-31, 05:39:25When internal conviction has been built this way, it will be possible to pass lie detectors that ask about convictions.Other than the fact that the article's claim of 25,000 people being subjected to a lie detector test turns out to be bogus, I think it would be much more telling, at least in the US, to test people who mouth the words that they believe in god only because it seems the right/American thing to do, but would fail a polygraph. Belief in God, in the US, has declined 8% over the last 5 years and creationism only carries a 36% following as of Dec. 2013. http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/mid/1508/ArticleId/1353/Default.aspx I just found these statistics myself and I am nor crowing that Atheism is on the rise even though those who are Absolutely/Somewhat certain there is no God (NET), is up 7% from 10 years ago (scroll down to see all the tables). I realize that polls are only indicative of trends and not proof/disproof of anything, but they can be interesting to peruse.
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #597 – 2014-08-01, 00:52:39 Not ready to post yet… But I wanted to say that I understand what Barulheira has said recently more than what others have said.Shan't we consider Naive and Cogent Atheism the most important categories?
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #598 – 2014-08-05, 06:06:43 Food for Thought Last Edit: 2014-08-05, 06:17:10 by SmileyFaze
Re: The Problem with Atheism Reply #599 – 2014-08-05, 09:55:33 Congratulations SmileyFaze, finally someone defines atheism at its very essence. Course it doesn't stops just there at dinosaurs... it keeps on going and going until much darkest things than just to be an inoffensive anecdote.
Topic: The Problem with Atheism (Read 205301 times)
