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Topic: Europe's Migrant Crisis (Read 34662 times)

Europe's Migrant Crisis

I came across a piece in the New York Times on migration into Europe this morning.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/world/europe/austria-migrant-crisis-truck.html?
And this.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/08/28/world/europe/countries-under-strain-from-european-migration-crisis.html
And this, too.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34113471?ocid=global_bbccom_email_01092015_top+news+stories

Do our European and UK posters see migration as a crisis?

The US has migrant "problems," too, but we've a large area to absorb migrants, more-so than Europe. I don't see it as a big problem, but many here do.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 on
Do our European and UK posters see migration as a crisis?

On the face of it, people dying and starving does sound like a crisis. However, I think the entire crisis-idea is self-caused. Disallow people from working or immigrating legally, for instance, and you've got a crisis on your hands. But perhaps a crisis is exactly what the relevant people want, to dissuade others from following.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #2 –
I work with refugees at an international Catholic NGO. Refugees aren't migrants and they pose very specific problems.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #4 –
It is a crisis and includes from round the world and much of a damn distance.  Europe simply cannot keep taking them and that includes Great Britain. Our import has run ito the 10 figure mark and still getting flooded on this island. Most people are not happy with the flow in because everything is effected. Housing, schools, Welfare State costs (benefits, etc), administration.

I am well aware of the pundits who wax about the difference between immigrant types like those fleeing battle and those who are after a cumfy life style supplied with putting nothing in but there has to be limits. The more that flock because it is easy the more it costs each country's government. When you watch the crowd sitting outside the main railway station in Budapest  demanding their rights someone should tell those from the distance world that they should try in the first free country them come to. They just see Europe as a gravy train to solve their problems but the level is getting ridiculous and increased bills mean increased taxes plus all that  I mention in providing living for them.

As for us on top of all the added problems created on this island the population is mushrooming and as I said ages ago as a young lad it was 48 million now just over 61 million and within a short time to be over 75 million with no sign of stopping. They also breed like flies compared to the indigenous. How the deuce we can cope with this is beyond me and will be a nightmare and dynamite.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #5 –
It's not any crisis for the European countries, though the receiving islands and coasts can be overwhelmed (which would include the whole of Malta, parts of Greece and Italy), and the EU hasn't exactly been forthcoming. It is clearly a crisis for the refugees, particularly the ones travelling by way of Libya, which has proven particularly deadly. According to Wikipedia the number of immigrants moving into the US was 900,000 at the highest a decade ago, around 300,000 now. The number of refugees is already higher than the latter number, but will not reach the former.

In 1990 Beijing had a population of 10-11 million, now 25 years later the population is 21-23 million. This means that the annual population growth has been 400,000-500,000. That is a similar number to the total refugee flow to Europe for a single city, every year for a quarter century. And Beijing isn't even the largest, or the fastest growing, city in China.

The number of people isn't a crisis, that so many of them are dying is. The Mediterranean is a deadly moat to cross. The Bay of Bengal is second deadliest, and the Sahara around third.

The UK is the third largest country in Europe, 1½ million less than France, but the seventh largest recipient, between Netherlands and Belgium. By capita they are on the 15th position (2014 numbers).

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Colonel Rebel on
Please....go on.     :wait:

Sorry, these are serious, very serious, matters that have no place at DnD by my part. I just wanted to underline that there are huge different problematics between economical migrants and war refugees. You can't treat both the same way.

You always have  the Great Defender of Orange Tree "Christianity" explaining everything about those "that also reproduces as flies" or, in his prime minister words, those that "are a plague". Protestants at their best.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #8 –
May I say firstly that Belfrager is retreating into the same mind as so much of the media going off it's head on the European crisis. It is know there is a difference between migrants and refugees however for the media they have went into rather wild and controlling view rather than stating the news. In addition I would also say to im that the guff about our stance is such. I would inform him and anyone else that there are 8 million people living in Great Britain who were not born here.

So we have over the years been doing our bit and suitably overlooked. Whatever crisis happens elsewhere in the world does not means that Europe automatically has to be the absorber and on principle people should according to principle seek the first place they come to but no that is casually put aside. We will no doubt take several thousand but the so-called livberal mind time after time just ignores too that we are not a very big island and cannot keep mushrooming our population. As for breeding big that IS factual and when a society falls below - what is it 2.1 or 2.4 children it is in decline. Our incomers have 45, 6 and even more. With 2 million taken in under the Labour government and this continuing the pressure on everything gets intense. Housing, utilities, schools, health service all get effected. When I listen to dumb ass politicians saying we should be taking in a 5-figure sum on top of what we are presently suffering in the six figure mark annually the same smart alecs would not wan them living in their posh areas.

The principle of refugees as such is one thing to deal with but just to assume that Europe can keep taking in untold numbers and this will not only effect cost but infrastructure is beyond understanding. Belfrager is correct then in distinguishing the two different types but what is presently happening is over the top. As for the dig at Prots kind of desperation there and we also took in large numbers of French Protestants after the French king pressurised by Belfrager's Church rang the bells for the extermination. The EC worse off places like Portugal have been kept alive by EC money  so we help to subsidise places like Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Italy and just look at their spiritual and disruptive history. Pity they did not have a William (Bel got mixed up on his Dutch Royal knowledge elsewhere!).  :cheers:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #9 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
May I say firstly that Belfrager is retreating into the same mind

The only "retreating" Belfrager does is into the basic principles and moral duty of Christian solidarity and misericordy for those that suffers. Nothing else matters and end of discussion.
Every word you add, rjhowie, only puts you more away from such principles. Acta non verba.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #10 –
I have a good deal of respect for you, Belfrager.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #11 –
We Westerners are nice and moral people.

The "Friends of Syria" (USA, EU and the Gulf-monarchies) have imposed four years ago an embargo on Syria and have frozen all its asset abroad.
No imports from Syria and no exports. Syria should be deprived of any means of income and the population starved out. No small country can survive under such conditions.
At the same time a civil war was successfully staged, mostly with the help of foreign fighters.
Main goal was and still is - regime change. The hegemon doesn't like Assad and he must go at any cost.
Who will take responsability for this crime? Who cares about the suffering, poeople living there had to endure since. Who will take care of the millions of Syrian refugees. Who cares about the people still living there?

Since we Westerners are nice and moral people, the hegemon is now urging the EU to absorb refugees. And since we are so nice and moral, Merkel will follow Washington's call.
1000.000 or maybe even 2000.000 will be given entrance to Germany.
They will symbolize Western generosity and morality or hypocrisy - take your pic.

Edit: Corrected the number (I missed a zero) of refugees planned to be given entrance to Germany.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 on

Let me add that Merkel is no Obama puppet.

It depends on how you would define "puppet".
However,  you seem to know better about our government than I do.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #15 –
to stop Mid-east Migrants is not that complicated .
just declare your goverment is  Syaria and Khilafa .

declare Death to all infidels .


since most emigrants from mid-east are  Kafir / infidels .
therefore they aint migrate to your Country .

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Belfrager on

Quote from: rjhowie on
May I say firstly that Belfrager is retreating into the same mind

The only "retreating" Belfrager does is into the basic principles and moral duty of Christian solidarity and misericordy for those that suffers. Nothing else matters and end of discussion.
Every word you add, rjhowie, only puts you more away from such principles. Acta non verba.

I've got nothing to add to that, but it needed repeating.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #17 –
Quote
May I say firstly that Belfrager is retreating into the same mind
The only "retreating" Belfrager does is into the basic principles and moral duty of Christian solidarity and misericordy for those that suffers. Nothing else matters and end of discussion.

Quote
Every word you add, rjhowie, only puts you more away from such principles. Acta non verba.

Quote
I've got nothing to add to that, but it needed repeating.

===============
Quote
Every word you add, rjhowie, only puts you more away from such principles. Acta non verba.

That should do it.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #18 –
BTW, the USA anounced that it will permit entrance to 10.000 Syrian refugees till the end of 2016.
David Cameron has anounced, approval for 20.000 Syrian refugees.

No mentions about Iraqi refugees. Probably because Iraq is considered now a safe country since it got liberated by the coalition of the willing.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #19 –
Britain is taking in Syrians from the organised camps as this country is not part of the borders thing like the rest of Europe. The PM was right to say that such a direction is better than just giving encouragement to waves of people to think they can flock  into European countries in their massive numbers and we pick up the cost. The media has went over the top. And anyway where the 20,000 are going to stay here will be very, very interesting. We have in practical terms taken in hundreds of thousands annually from across the world and there is a housing problem never mind the massive cost of welfare, etc. Many of hose immigrants we already have are in often overcrowded homewsgiven free and most live off the Welfare State causing extra pressure on schools, health services and much more. We simply cannot keep being flooded in.

There has been a great deal of Western hypocrisy over ME issues including Syria and we do not have innocent hands any more than we had in cusaing a mess in Libya and other places. On top of that it should be ME countries that militarily taken on ISIS on the ground. How many immigrants have the Gulf States or Saudi Arabia the rich places. For all intents more or less nothing.
"Quit you like men:be strong"
 

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #20 –
I wasn't sure before now. I had my suspicions of course, but couldn't be sure.

Now I'm sure.

There is at least one Redneck in Glasgow, Scotland.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #21 –
Now, now. For once Howie has a point.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/09/04/the-arab-worlds-wealthiest-nations-are-doing-next-to-nothing-for-syrias-refugees/


....

Quote
Moreover, these countries aren't totally innocent bystanders. To varying degrees, elements within Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the U.A.E. and Kuwait have invested in the Syrian conflict, playing a conspicuous role in funding and arming a constellation of rebel and Islamist factions fighting the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.


BUT for Howie's complaints about refugees in Britain, countries like Iraq are far less able to handle the influx and I have no idea how Turkey is handling 1.8M of them.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Midnight Raccoon on
I have no idea how Turkey is handling 1.8M of them.

More importantly, what will Turkey do in the longer run. I've read that the Turkish gov't expected Syria's problems to be short term problems. That's obviously not the case. I wonder how many Syrians in Turkey plan to travel to European countries.

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #23 –
Just about every war was expected to be short--- with the notable exception of the "war on terror" which is expected to be without end.

In America's Civil War, when it started both sides expected there would be a few skirmishes and then it would be over.

In WW1, both sides expected the fighting to be over before Christmas in the first year of the conflict.

So-- Turkey expected the Syrian troubles to be short-lived and instead they're going on and on. What a surprise.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Europe's Migrant Crisis

Reply #24 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on

I wasn't sure before now. I had my suspicions of course, but couldn't be sure.

Now I'm sure.

There is at least one Redneck in Glasgow, Scotland.

Who will proudly take your assessment as a compliment.