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Topic: Tripe about Ukraine (Read 232164 times)

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #525 –
Quote from: Colonel Rebel on

Never will understand why you wish to bend over backwards for that arrogant prick.

Authoritarian macho worship. Quite possible there's a whole lot of compensation involved too :right:

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #528 –
Unfortunately your country laddie is still in a Cold War mentality. The USSR is long gone but the corporates who run America and make the money are determined their politicians keep things like NATO urging on that confrontation mode. Russia has completely changed since the fall of Communism and continues to change. You seem to think that somehow America is the only one with some divine right to control the world. War after war and all in the name of "security", oh and "America;s interests." Time after time this has went on and when Russia takes a stand on it's interests all Hell breaks loose.  What gets up the West nose and especially the US is that Russia cannot be battered down or taken over like anywhere else. Time you grew up in the  global play game dear boy.

Your trillions in debt gets worse, spend more than anyone on war and have tens of millions of your own people in a predicament. Small wonder so many in the military are having brain probs as they are probably desperate for a job. Russia wil continue to improve and getting rid of the dictatorship does not mean a miracle in a few years. Look at the land of the free and home of the brave. Two centuries on and what a state is is in. Small wonder there are repeat shooting son military bases and is an improvement from a legion of schools and other places. There is no comparison between Putin and Stalin. That cruel git who killed more than even Hitler did. Free elections and conducted properly. Mind you there are free elections in the ex-colony and look what it gets for it!  :o
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #529 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
Unfortunately your country laddie is still in a Cold War mentality. The USSR is long gone but the corporates who run America and make the money are determined their politicians keep things like NATO urging on that confrontation mode. Russia has completely changed since the fall of Communism and continues to change.
I have a side note on it.
It was thought that Keiser Germany was "long gone", right? Next, today's NATO? Remember the Versailles Allies? They didn't dismiss. "Russia has completely changed"? If you say so, but I guess there were lots of such 'howies'(no personal) at the time to think "Germany has completely changed". Yes, the then Germany had a "covert" ally in the person of Soviet Russia -- does Putin's Russia have such one?

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #530 –
The desintegration of Ukraine continues http://newsru.com/world/07apr2014/donetsk.html В Донецке провозгласили создание Донецкой народной республики, независимой от Украины, и под крики "Путин, помоги!" приняли решение войти в состав РФ

Josh, almighty language guru, translate it for the rest of the world. Here's my humble preliminary contribution.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #531 –
"Disintegration".
Quote from: ersi on
В Донецке провозгласили создание Донецкой народной республики, независимой от Украины, и под крики "Путин, помоги!" приняли решение войти в состав РФ
(There's a town (city) in Ukraine which is the centre of one of its mining regions. It is Donetzk here.)
So, as ersi's info says, the Donetskiy Region was proclaimed independent from Ukraine...
Was it a сход or something more serious, Ersi?

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #533 –
I'll read a Russian article the day Russians up the pootins on pitchforks. Let the BBC do the job till then.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #535 –
Quote from: Josh on

I'll read a Russian article the day Russians up the pootins on pitchforks. Let the BBC do the job till then.


Yeah, only geniuses can go to BBC site. Obviously, Josh is not a genius.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26919928

Quote
Pro-Russian protesters who seized the regional government building in the Ukrainian city of Donetsk are reported to have declared a "people's republic".

The rebels have called for a referendum on secession from Ukraine by 11 May.


Rebels??? They are doing about the same thing as Maidan in Kiev. So, obviously, they are not rebels, they are peaceful protesters.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #536 –
Well, not only Donetsk. Ukrainian media reports that Kharkov Republic is declared in Kharkov.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #537 –
Quote from: sergey-pypyrev on

Well, not only Donetsk. Ukrainian media reports that Kharkov Republic is declared in Kharkov.
And Lugansk is also named at the same breath http://www.inopressa.ru/article/07Apr2014/inotheme/ukraine_07.html

It's going a bit slow to my taste, but I still think it will be as bad as I thought. Namely, there's no stopping it until the ex-USSR borders are reclaimed. And any serious attempts to stop it will look ugly enough to resemble WWIII.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #538 –
Quote from: ersi on
It's going a bit slow to my taste, but I still think it will be as bad as I thought. Namely, there's no stopping it until the ex-USSR borders are reclaimed. And any serious attempts to stop it will look ugly enough to resemble WWIII.


Restoring USSR using armed forces does not make any sense. So, there are no reasons to assume that Putin plans anything like this.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #539 –
Quote from: sergey-pypyrev on
Restoring USSR using armed forces does not make any sense. So, there are no reasons to assume that Putin plans anything like this.
Well, he is doing it as we speak. And, yes, I agree - it doesn't make any sense.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #540 –
Quote from: sergey-pypyrev on

Well, not only Donetsk. Ukrainian media reports that Kharkov Republic is declared in Kharkov.

From what I've read so far, popular support for secession isn't nearly as strong as on Crimea - let's see how it plays out.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #541 –
Putin has repeatedly made it clear he does not want to be like an American Imperialist. Crimea is gone so that's a dead story. As for the east of Ukraine there is no great swell for joining Russia it is more a case of wanting a Federal Ukraine. After all they helped vote in a democratic government which was illegally kicked out and the Kiev lot made a point of ignoring what people felt in the southeast and even more so in Crimea.

Russia has stated continually that it does not want to see Ukraine falling apart but in the US and EEC you wonder what makes the political mind tick. More and more over the pond are not interested in being involved with the Ukrainian situation . Perhaps war weariness has a part. So the country will continue to struggle and a Federal system is the way ahead as I said in a previous submission here. That would keep the country as one but if Kiev is stupid enough to try the tough hand then kiss goodby to any co-operation in the east.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #542 –
Quote from: Macallan on

Quote from: sergey-pypyrev on

Well, not only Donetsk. Ukrainian media reports that Kharkov Republic is declared in Kharkov.

From what I've read so far, popular support for secession isn't nearly as strong as on Crimea - let's see how it plays out.
When did takeovers and landgrabs depend on popular support? They depend on who gets the upper hand, while the upper hand may be played as if popular support.

USSR knew this game well and Putin has done his KGB homework. The Baltic countries were annexed this way in 1940. Nobody among the local people wanted it. After the military invasion - well, since there was hardly any shot, let's call it intrusion - there were as-if elections which ended in direct appointments to the government by the foreign power. The parliament stopped legislating at that point and began issuing declarations of peace and friendship instead. According to Russian historians the events enjoyed overwhelming popular support, marked by "spontaneous" parades, mass rallies of the proletariat, etc.
 

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #545 –
From the official source "The future of Transdniestria (a region seeking independence from Moldova) is with Russia and it will need a “civilised divorce” with Moldova, the self-proclaimed republic’s leader Yevgeny Shevchuk said on Monday, April 7." http://en.itar-tass.com/world/726882

Now, why am I mentioning Moldova in this thread? Geographically, Moldova is where Ukraine is, just to the opposite direction from Russia.

Politically, Moldova has been weaker than Ukraine. There have been no riots, luckily, but there's insane in-depth poverty and hopelessness among the people, and lack of political and economic aim among the elite, other than grabbing some wealth and sitting on it. Romania's (another next-door neighbour there) poverty is a piece of cake in comparison. Moldova is more like Albania, probably worse than that.

The article I quoted is particularly about Transdniestria (or Transnistria, transcribe as thou wilt), the ticking time-bomb in the same area. It's a Russian-army-occupied internationally unrecognised de facto independent territory with fully elaborated administrative representation, nominally apart from Russia, but ever waiting for its opportunity to reunite with the motherland. The right opportunity is of course when at least Moldova and Ukraine are drawn along.

Here's the map. Green is Ukraine. Crimea is just outside the map to the right.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #547 –
Quote from: Macallan on

Quote from: sergey-pypyrev on

Well, not only Donetsk. Ukrainian media reports that Kharkov Republic is declared in Kharkov.

From what I've read so far, popular support for secession isn't nearly as strong as on Crimea - let's see how it plays out.

I've read the same in German media.
It makes me wonder why Kiev opposed referendums in those regions. It seems that Kiev isn't at all confident about the outcome of such referendums. Furthermore it seems that Kiev doesn't even trust the law enforcement forces of those regions.
Instead of de-escalation and honest efforts to solve peacefully the tensios, all that Kiev has to offer are questionable special forces.

Quote
On Monday, a source in the Interior Ministry of Ukraine told Ria Novosti that three special forces units have been redeployed to the Donetsk and Lugansk regions to suppress anti-government protests. The source claims that they consist of Interior Forces units, the newly-formed National Guard, Right Sector radicals, and Blackwater (Greystone) mercenaries and Falcon units. LifeNews also reported seeing armed Titan special forces units in Donetsk.

Quote
These special forces are ready to solve operational problems without the regard to local peculiarities
- Ukraine's Interior Ministry quoted Avakov


So it seems that the Ukraine is heading toward a civil war. The self-appointed government in Kiev is innocent, so is the West supporting it and the only person to blame for is ... is ... Putin.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #549 –
Quote from: ersi on
Politically, Moldova has been weaker than Ukraine. There have been no riots, luckily

Luckily, no riots. Just plain old war which resulted in up to 900 dead.

Quote from: ersi on
It's a Russian-army-occupied internationally unrecognised de facto independent territory

Quote
The Joint Control Commission (JCC, Russian: Объединенная контрольная комиссия - ОКК) is a tri-lateral peacekeeping force and joint military command structure from Moldova, Transnistria, and Russia, which operates in a buffer zone on the border between the Republic of Moldova and Ukraine.

Ok, I understand that in Estonia peacekeepers are named occupants. I have question about peacekeepers from Moldova and Transnistria: are they also occupants?