Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue (Read 7736 times)

Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Personally I am not a Trump fan but equally no more impressed on the Democrat nominee Biden. It will not matter a straightforward damn which wins the election in November. The tens of millions on food stamps, over 2 million in jails, people on death row for months and years, staying in Cuba too much spent on military events just continue all the dashed time.  Even Obama was no great change and a pity that democracy is a talk over the pond and not a real fact for too many.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #2 –
Pity it says video is unavailable but I still will think doesn't matter who wins it will mean little for legions of Americans.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #3 –
I'm curious to know if anyone here is actually "interested" in my country's upcoming election. (I am, of course -- contra RJ, who's had a bug up his behind since, well, probably Lend-Lease... def A tight teetotaler; Scot.; e.g., RJ.) Does it seem consequential? Was our current Democratic National Party Convention all that you'd hoped? More than you could take? Too little Cardi B? (Not enough Max Headroom, for me...) Something you missed, but didn't miss? :)
Well, the Republicans are up next week...

I look forward to the debates between the candidates.  (I'll be happy to give a play-by-play here. You have only to ask...)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #4 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL – on
I'm curious to know if anyone here is actually "interested" in my country's upcoming election.
The differences between what Europeans consider democracy and what Americans consider democracy are interesting to analyze. The elections itself are unimportant.

Nice to read your posts again. :wine:
A matter of attitude.

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #5 –
Vive la différence!  :wine:

America's Paleo-conservatives will always peacefully coexist with classical Liberals. :)

@RJ: You do know that the Daily Show is meant to be comedy, don't you? You're not missing much by being unable to view the video. Just know that Biden is more than a gaffe machine... He's also too touchy (both senses!) to be elected to the presidency.
But stranger things have happened.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #6 –
American politics and would-be party conferences are a very juvenile and pointless lot.I still stick by my feelings that it does not matter a damn which of the big 2 parties take the White House because the number of poor, i jail and so on are massive. Continuity in that direction but democracy? - naps Outside the farcical 2 party con and you are even worse off!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #7 –
I'll bet you remember your first feelings... A squishy warmth in your nappy! Of course you'll stick to your feelings; and they'll stick to you. You know no other way.
You're worse than a woman! :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #8 –
The whole system is a comedy. Traditionally the two party conferences are a head shaking farce. The crowd with long poles and name on them for their candidate and the speakers are a joke. There are literally tens of millions in nutjobland who are down on their heels and it does not matter a bit whether Republicans or Democrats with all the failings are continued by either.  They bum about the greatest democracy in the world and spend have the global military bill while massive numbers of their folk homeless, poor or starving. Head shaking mess and continues with both those two lots.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #9 –
Quote from: rjhowie – on
The whole system is a comedy
Isn't every political system :) ? Of course, what you know of life in the U.S. is decidedly skewed, by your socialist prejudices and by our liberal media.
Trust me on this, RJ: The lot that will resume power if Joe Biden is elected (and his party, with the Squad leading, retains the House) will do untold damage... To the heartland, to our republic, and ultimately to the world; unless the public at large exerts itself in the next election.
Nadler (head of the Judiciary Committee) and Shiff (head of the Intelligence Committee) are just the tip of the iceberg, and Pelosi won't last as Speaker past the next session following the upcoming election.
You don't (and can't, with your level of knowledge) understand just how "successful" Trump has been at "draining the swamp". And how much more a second term -specially with Republican control of the House- might accomplish... (I believe -or fervently hope, if you'd prefer- that the Republican party has learned the lesson of the mid-terms!)
Your twaddle doesn't bother me half so much as your lack of curiosity and due-diligence. (Sort of how I take your fears of your wee li'l isle capsizing... :) )
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #10 –
Well firstly dear ex-colonist I personally am not Socialist and even here in Gt Britain Socialism declined in the Labour Party! We have a country not hell bent on wanting to be cowboys and mass shootings and all using that Constitution as a right to be a daft gun person! The place is not the same as at the Revolution have a million and a half in the military, wide open chance to buy handguns and bigger damn ones all as defence blather. Utterly immature when yo have a nig ,military and gung-ho police all over the place.

On the political front you are less wide on political stances - just the Democrats and Republicans but doesn't matter a tosh which of those two in power the tens of millions of poor stay the same, mass killings, numbers in jail (and death row)and all the weaknesses contradict the political ballyhoo. In Britain our left and right are in essence better than your lot poor man and all parties support things like the National Health Service provided by the State and other welfares. Whatever head scratching I sometime do on Trump the Democrat contender does not impress me at all. Black Lives Matter is a load of guff! Now if i was not a monarchist I would offer my services as the man in the White House and give you time to get pally with me...........
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #11 –
RJ says, "[The same old blather.]"

I reply: :) (And leave it at that.)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #12 –
Ha, ha. Mind you I will throw this in. Biden means nothing and was well suted to be with Obama!  :irked:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #13 –
Democrats are bankrolling ads promoting fringe Republican candidates

Quote from: https://www.npr.org/2022/06/27/1106859552/primary-illinois-colorado-republican-candidate-democrats-ads
In 2012, McCaskill's reelection campaign spent $1.7 million on an advertising blitz during the GOP primary to highlight the conservative credentials of candidate Todd Akin. It was more money than Akin's campaign had spent throughout the entire primary.

"There were three viable candidates and Todd Akin was kind of the weirdest one," McCaskill said. "I knew he might say some weird things if he were nominated. And he had less money, so we took a poll and figured out what Republican voters would really like about him."

For most of the primary season, Akin had been behind in the polls. But he surged in the last two weeks of the campaign as McCaskill's ads aired across Missouri. He ended up winning the primary, then losing handily to McCaskill in the general election.

Democrats have been making Republicans look silly (because who does not like a silly weak opponent) and Republicans have let themselved be played (because who does not like funding).

I think it has been going on for far longer than since 2012. The result now is extreme polarisation of the country. Its worst phenomenon, Trump, seems to be fading now, but not without a fight. And he is still free. USA is so free that you can orchestrate a coup attempt without any consequences. January 6, 2021, will probably never make it to courts of law, because there was some house committee investigating it so everybody thinks it's been investigated enough.

Also, the elections fraud storyline was invented by Democrats. I noticed it clearly in W versus Kerry elections, but it may be much older. W versus Gore was perhaps even more controversial. Democrats complained about unfair elections at the time but nothing more, as it was just a rhetorical ploy, but Republicans have taken the storyline and are acting on it regardless of the facts. 

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #14 –
Oh, while US elections are mostly free (not always been the case), they are definitely not fair. While there are constraints on how fair any election system can be, it is very hard to make a First Past The Post system work reasonably well. And most of the time the US election system is manipulated in the other direction, like with gerrymandering.

Generally the parties in power will have little incentive to change an unfair system, as it is that system that put them into power In the first place. In particular Democrats would win most election (there are thousands) most of the time this century, if all else were the same. Of course all wouldn't be the same, Democrats would be in power much more, which would lead to different dynamics. More importantly, if FPTP were scrapped, there would be more parties than two with winning chances.

While the system as it is gives a net disadvantage to Democrats currently, that aggregate is hiding that there are Democrats in power because of the system, just not as many as those that are in power in spite of the system. And in the past, and quite likely in the future, the Democrats have been net benefactors relative to the Republicans (in the greater perspective both benefit from the system, the electorate is the losers).

So Democrats are absolutely correct to gripe about the election system. Republicans are quiet about it, or invent spurious reasons to support it, because currently it benefits them. When that flips, expect their roles and attitudes to flip as well.



Still, elections, fair or not, have rules. If unsupervised those rules are likely to be broken, which is why they are supervised and audited. A recount isn't challenge to the rules as such, counting has a margin of error. Automated recount is a good idea.

Making clearly spurious claims is not. There was a slight tendency from both parties to weaponize challenges, not because they believed in them, but for political advantage. That went into complete overdrive with Trump.

Money and media, and the implicit lobbying is more important. Americans care more about outside influence, because that is illegal, mot most calls come from inside the house. Republicans used to have a money advantage, especially from fossil and finance, but that is evening out. Democrats on their side had good Silicon Valley relationships, but they are souring. Republicans do have a media advantage, and will probably retain that ahead.

US intelligence document describes
UAE efforts to influence American politics – report



Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #16 –
Everybody knows that American elections don't matter. Finally, Americans are slowly realising it too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJefxb2dSMY

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #17 –
The system is certainly something.
 

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #18 –
Quote from: ersi – on
Everybody knows that American elections don't matter. Finally, Americans are slowly realising it too!
As always, Euro-centric intellectuals fail to recognize the difference between a republic and a democracy. Perhaps if more nations had limited their governments sufficiently they'd appreciate the goal expressed in the maxim "The government that governs least is the government that  governs best."
But perhaps not... Europe has given us two world wars, and centuries of war leading up to them. Snd much of the rest of the world has a similarly sorry history. (I suspect any counter-examples that can be cited have neither written history nor extant archeological evidence...) With all due respect to the Netherlands, the United States is the longest lasting republic known to history. (Unless one subscribes to the notion that calling s sow's ear a silk purse makes it so... :) )
And it still matters to a rather large number of Americans — despite how far we've drifted away from the ideal.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #19 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL – on
As always, Euro-centric intellectuals fail to recognize the difference between a republic and a democracy.
As always, American monolingual doofuses fail to learn that republic is the Latin translation of the Greek word democracy. Republic and democracy are the same thing, but USA is neither republic or a democracy. It is elective dictatorship.

The president of USA has more power than any modern king since 1900s. The only difference from actual kingdom is the term limit.

Elections alone do not make a republic. Popes are elected, but Vatican is not a republic, is it?

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #20 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL – on
As always, Euro-centric intellectuals fail to recognize the difference between a republic and a democracy.
When applied to a nation from the past several centuries the word means a modern liberal democracy, not an ancient Athenian democracy. The right to vote is part of being a democracy but a democracy doesn't (overtly) practice tyranny of the majority, certainly no more so than the United States does.

Quote from: OakdaleFTL – on
With all due respect to the Netherlands
The Netherlands is a (democratic) constitutional monarchy, not a republic.[1] The American president is much closer in power to a traditional king than either the Dutch king or the Dutch prime minister.

France is the only country in Europe where the president's power comes close, because De Gaulle was strongly inspired by America in that matter.
1 Practically speaking the difference doesn't matter much for most intents and purposes of course.↵

Re: Doesn't matter who wins the USA Elections the hypocrisy will continue

Reply #21 –
Americans unhappy with Trump have some ideas to change the system. However, the ideas concern the election system, sometimes the Supreme Court, but never the role of the president. Even with Trump in power, the president's post is an untouchable sacred cow to Americans - all Americans. For them, the president must remain both head of state and head of government in the same person, i.e. as it is now. Counterproductively, many propose abolition of the electoral college, hence the president should be elected directly, giving him even more power than now.

I must conclude that Americans, all of them, are a different species (in their political thinking), not normal humans. Everywhere else in the world it is allowed to theorise about whether to be ruled by a king, a president, or a prime minister, or how to divide powers between all these titles, but not in America.