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Topic: Tripe about Ukraine (Read 230201 times)

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #650 –
Let's see if I got this right.

We have:

  • What Officer Guy wanted to say

  • What Officer Guy actually said

  • What NATO presented him as saying on YouTube

  • What I condensed into  "[Afghanistan]" of the first part of the sentence into

  • What Josh thought that meant and how veracious that was in terms of 3.

  • What Sanguinemoon's reflections on Josh's corrections imply.



Now, I happen to agree with myself and not with Josh. And I am studiously non-aligned with Sanguinemoon's premises. But I am willing to concur that "A focus on Afghanistan has been important for the Alliance the last 10 years" is a truthier statement than "Afghanistan has been important for the Alliance the last 10 years", no matter what Officer Guy said or thought he did. Furthermore I am willing to string up conjunctions as hostages in front of my sentences in support of these positions, as many as it takes. So military exercises just happen, but postings on Youtube and in this esteemed forum is done for a reason. And I think I have incurred a glossal adhesive fracture.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #651 –
Next NATOfghanistan video out. Any takers?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQhO0wH7Rh8[/video]

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #653 –
The tripe couldn't get much worse.

There was Kerry on television spouting about the terrorists in the east and how despicable they were. Uh? When the nonsense went on in the Kiev square and seen dozens of people shot dead, etc he was waxing lyrical about peaceful protesters(?). Anything of the tripe that comes out of Kiev is taken as some form of gospel by him - no checking - nothing. Interesting that Vice-President  Biden should go to Ukraine to obviously encourage the Ukrainian Army to swing to the east. And on top of that the head of the CIA. It is almost unbelievable that he goes out of his way to condemn anyone in the east using Molotovs or similar as a disgrace but when it was done in Kiev that was somehow different.  Every time some nation that does not accept the US's rule of the planet will suffer blockades or be infiltrated, de-stabilised or invaded. Coincidentally this is followed up by the corporates of course as is the usual. It is morally justified as it is to protect "US interests." However if Russia talks about interests that is a no-no!

As for slating Russia for motivating the trouble in the east is more propaganda bunkum. The Russian foreign minister has stated publicly on the media that ALL groups who are armed should disarm. What don't people understand about that statement? And why is the Right Sector not included as they have said in no uncertain terms they will NOT disarm. Ineed they are organisng a force to go east to do more stringing up Next month Russia pulls the plug on the discounted gas that Ukraine seems to think is an entitlement. As I pointed out earlier the revolters in Kiev did not take in the people in the east/southeast at all but just did their own thing. Those in the east had taken part in a properly run election and are supposed to just accept an illegal takeover whether they like it or not? And why is Kerry yakking on about the terrible separatists in th east of Ukraine. The majority of the objectors there have not stated they want to be part of Russia but a federal system. The west of the country wants to be with Europe and the rest want to stay cloe to Russia.

Trouble with Obama and Kerry is they are miffed that there is a country that they cannot control in there inbuilt attitude to influencing the world. as a divine right. Even when you do get a media outlet saying they have found out some stuff has been a lying propaganda, Kerry ignores this and continues his contemptuous nonsense . There are plenty of countries around the world who are wary of the US lead in this saga and contradict the guff about everyone  is right behind DC. Equally if the utter hypocrisy of the bunch of idiots in Kiev aided by their Nazi allies in the Right keep being stupid and over the top they will recive a heavy clump if Russia has had enough.  The propaganda being dished out to people in the West is so ridiculous but not eryone allows themselves to be treated like children.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #654 –
At least they are united by the Orthodox Church.

Quote from: BBC
Ukraine unrest: Orthodox Easter messages show divide

Orthodox Easter messages from patriarchs in Kiev and Moscow have highlighted the deep division in Ukraine, where a tense stand-off is continuing in the east.

Patriarch Filaret, a Ukrainian Orthodox Church leader, accused Russia of "aggression" and "evil".

Russian Church Patriarch Kirill asked God to end the designs of those who wanted to rip apart Russia and Ukraine.

Pro-Russian activists in the east continue to occupy government offices.

Patriarch Filaret heads a Kiev church which broke away from the Moscow Patriarchate. A rival Ukrainian Orthodox Church - reckoned to have more followers - remains affiliated to Moscow and is recognised by the wider Eastern Orthodox community.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #655 –
Unfortunate when such things happen but the country is deeply divided so shows that.

It is a ridiculous situation right now anyway. An un-official government in Kiev takes over and moans that a large part of the east which did not support non-democratic moves is doing what it did (without dozens being killed). Kerry still looks like a fool  and in past times DC just got away with any propaganda but now it no longer has that forte so no doubt a bit peeved at being challenged. One leading US papar did the honest thing and retract pictures given to them as they were fake. Kerry just mouths what that pain in the neck Ukrainian Prime Minister says. The answer is as plain as the nose thinking. The west wants to be in with Europe and the east wants to be pals with Russia. A federal system is the only answer. The east isn't asking to be part of Russia although you would think that by the ridiculous propaganda from the West and our political leaders.  How can people wanting a federal system in their deeply divided country be "separatists" when they obviously still want to be in Ukraine??

Overall the morality of the news speak is disgusting, It is the east of Ukraine that produces the money for the country not the hell bent west wanting to be European and US lackeys. Russia went out of it's way to give Kiev a discount on the gas supply and yet still did not get paid now they are the bad guys for saying they have had enough. At the same time Kiev has been cutting off water supplies to Crimea while moaning about the fuel discount situation. I still say that Kerry looks like a buffoon and practices that direction well. He is also wrong in thinking all the world is behind this latest US imperialist intervention. When you hear of the stuff coming out of Kiev and his automatic tripe in going along with it you have to wonder about sense.   So let's have enough of the two-faced stuff from the West and talk about the "Separatists" and even more so when you consider how the mob in the capital took over the country. Even more so as most of the country's income comes from the east which everyone neatly ignores. That it is okay for the US to have so-called concerned for it's interests but no-one else has the right only emphasises the hypocrisy.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #656 –
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/world/europe/eastern-europe-frets-about-natos-ability-to-curb-russia.html
Quote
Western European members of NATO may regard the conflict over Ukraine as remote, an annoying threat to their business ties to Moscow, said Artis Pabriks, who was Latvia’s defense minister until he stepped down in late January. “But for us, it’s not about money, it’s existential,” he said. “You guys may remain with your freedoms, but we may not, so it’s different.”

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #657 –
Latvia's freedom is not under threat so a nonsense. I fail to understand Kerry's intelligence or even sense.  He yaks on about the situation in Ukraine being Russia's fault. Now there is a bit of dopiness if every there was one.  A bunch of dangerous peoiple take over what started as a rotine protest in Kiev and destroy a properly elected government. They shoot policemn and ogther nationalists and take over buildings. That is perfectly okay for the US, Europe and NATO. At no time was this coup a national event and those in the east and south east of Ukraine who had duly voted in a democratic procedure suddenly found themselves in a junta that had little or no interest in them but only it's own agenda.

The east then gets annoyed at the overthrow of the democratic process and in anger takes over buildings, etc and they are somehow automatically beyond the pale. Because the majority ine the east speak Russian it is laid down that Moscow has created that event. Talk about kindergarten thinking. Considering Russia unlike with others damn well gave Ukraine a dicount on power supplies which Ukraine still couldn't pay - still the same as well as loaniong it money things are being stretched a bit by the West.
Kerry also downright is proved a liar when he rabitted on the media about the Crimea Referendum as having only 2 choices. No it didn't it had THREE. One included remaining in Ukraine and it's constitution. It is this kind of devious rubbish that makes one cringe. The New York Times published pictures of "Russian involvement" and depicted a bearded bloke in them. Then it was later found to be from the Georgia event a few years ago. Did Kerry rtetract his use of the pictures? nope, he didn't.  What is also still being ignored is that Russia stated to everyone that ALL armed groups in Ukraine without exception should lay them down. Again suitably sidestepped. Certain countries in Europe came out hard against Russia including places like Rumania and Bulgaria on encouraging sanctions against Russia. However behind the scenes it was found they were only in that mode if Europe supported them financially! Now the West is scathing about Russia pulling the plug on the discounted stuff which is another daftness.

The contemptible and stupid propaganda being waged against Russia is a disgrace. Now let us see what very tight restrictions the IMF is going to press on Ukraine. This is the result of a failed State thinking that the West is it's cure but the economic penalties will kmke things worse there. In the east of Ukraine is where the economy is and it doesn't want Europe
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #658 –
When I watch that damn woman who has been giving out the press conference stuff at the White House it is enough to make you squirm.The deaths in eastern Ukraine were and are being treated differently. It was unfortunate that people die having to jump out of windows and then get beaten to death by rightist Kiev supporters. They even wanted to kill a pregnant woman. Now had that been the eastern protestors we would have much different news issued. It is so hypocritical. Since then i have watched more people (not armed shot and killed by the so-called guard units of Kiev.

The Russians pulled back troops from anywhere near Ukraine and said they wanted ALL civilians with weapons to back off but that is ignored by the White House and it's flunkies in the world. Also ignored were the Russian moves to quieten the situation. Now the US in it's usual imperial role has been organising NATO exercises on the Russian border and facing Crimea. All we have had from both the illegal government in Kiev and the US leadership is a bunch of lies and double-standards of the worst kind. I still await proof that Moscow was involved in what has been going on and the propaganda that Onama and that cther lying creep, Kerry insults the intelligence. It doesn't matter what Russia does as it will be damned anyway because like Chia it cannot be controlled by the American Empire.

It is almost beyond belief that so many in the West go along with an illegitimate Kiev government in Kiev riddled with Nazis and that the east are the bad guys. It is the east that provides for the Ukraine economy and they did not want to be separate but more notice taken of them as they voted in a proper election then got the world taken away by a coup they wanted no part in. If the West is going to continue to ignore the number of deaths Kiev is doing in the east things wil break down. The east wants their language accepted and their place in as I have said ina federal Ukraine but the Kiev gangsters aided by the West led by a two-faced USA may still cause a civil war.

"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #661 –
The situation has got worse as I said it might.

The utter hypocrisy and arrogance being given out by that White House lady who does the comments to journalists is unbelievable. I also seen a news item where a Senator asked the Deputy US minister who does foreign affairs if it was true that the Kiev coup lot had a sprinkling of neo-Nazis and she almost squirmed and would not give a proper answer.  He also mentioned why she could go on about the peaceful protests in Kiev's mainsquare when we seen policemen get showered with fire and worse.What is also farcical is that Kiev is going bananas on "terrorists" in the eastern half of the country. Can we remind that it was terrorists who stole the democratic process in Kiev and shot dozens.

Not satisifed with the lies from Kiev the "leader"of the "Free West" keeps condemning Russia. This is another insult to intelligence as the Russian Foreign Minister campaigned about having no violence in Ukraine from anyone.  President Putin also stated he had no plan to dismember Ukraine and felt that a federal system should be the direction. Instead what we got was a rogue government in Kiev mounting a vicious attack on the east using both the army and the National Guard. This included shooting people going to the referendum. It was the neo-Nazis who attacked the Union building burning people and beating to death those who jumped from the windows. The White House woman said it was unfortunate that people had been killed recently. You can bet if the shoe was on the other foot she would have been bellowing more lies. Again, Russia had strongly urged protestors in the east to avoid a referendum but the West ignored that too. Seems to me that it doesn't matter what Russia does the West has it's own agenda. Now Russia is condemned for stopping gas supplies as they are not getting paid. The US answer was that such a move was ridculous using things to lean on people! Because it uses doubtful tactics it thinks weirdly.

As for the referendums held in two areas (against remember, Putin's wishes) it was okay and of course "perfectly legal£ for the West to immediately accepted the referendum in Kosovo to break from the State of Serbia because it suited.  In the last 10 years the US has extended NATO closer and closer to the Russian border. Noises are being made about protecting member States. Eh? No-one has threatened any member of NATO and the latest exercises were in a Baltic State right next the border with Russia!  Like all trouble spots the US likes to want to create or use money is involved and it has investments in Ukraine. Now US warships at the Black Sea.

Kiev has no interest in a deal with the east of the country and that is even more stupid considering that is where the best bit of their economy is. Those in the east are angry becaue the democratic process was stolen from them and they were not involved nor asked. It is the old story that democracy is fine in the West as long as the government voted in is in the corner wanted. Indeed I remember when Ireland made a negative referendum. on an EEC situation and encouraged to have another. Austria had a government in modern times that wasn't liked to equally encouraged by Europe to have another election.

This mess has been created by the West supporting an illegal coup and shutting a blind eye to the Nazi involvement because it is all part of the world imperial dominance stance. The West has a lot of blame and now Ukraine will fall apart due to the fact that the coup was not universal. To call the eastern Ukrainians terrorists is so beyond the sense level. Not consulted, ignored in the coup led by the Right Sector and their Nazi associates makes them the bad guys??
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #662 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

jax might like this: a map of the world according to Putin.

http://www.economist.com/news/international/21601862-why-should-russian-presidents-innovative-attitude-towards-borders-be-restricted

Just wonder if jax is a fan of BS maps.
Guess whos mantra "The Economist" is praying? The article is distorted from the very first sentence.
Neither has Putin to justify for Crimea nor did he annexed it.
Crimeans have choosen to be part of the Russian Federation and did vote for accession.

Yanukovych was corrupt but at least he didn't sent armors to fight against those who were against him. The self-appointed pack in Kiev does and I assume "The Economist" would even justify it.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #663 –
Putin has made this claim about Russian speakers, basically where there are Russian speakers Putin-man will come to their rescue. By referring to people who speak the language rather than people who have Russian citizenship, the structure of the world would have been different. It would be more like the two posts Frenzie made with language maps, that I couldn't find (the posts, not the maps).

Quote from: Frenzie on

This one with a few more subdivisions looks a tad more interesting:



The article started with the political map of national boundaries and coloured them according to language, and that severely understate how messy the situation would be. The point of the article was that it was messy, but it kind of lost its way when getting in the real situation.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #665 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

That would be here.


I properly quoted them. Of course the above map only counts language groups, so German and English would be the same, and French, Spanish, and Portuguese the same, which wouldn't do for imperial purposes.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #666 –
Quote from: jax on
I properly quoted them. Of course the above map only counts language groups, so German and English would be the same, and French, Spanish, and Portuguese the same, which wouldn't do for imperial purposes.

Sure it does. There's something like the Greater Frankish or Holy Roman Empire in red, and the Roman Empire in blue. ;)

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #667 –
... and of course, Greater Wessex which of course includes England and Germany. :D

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #668 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

Quote from: jax on
I properly quoted them. Of course the above map only counts language groups, so German and English would be the same, and French, Spanish, and Portuguese the same, which wouldn't do for imperial purposes.

Sure it does. There's something like the Greater Frankish or Holy Roman Empire in red, and the Roman Empire in blue. ;)

So which of the new territories in the Americas should get voting rights? We better not repeat the brits' mistake there :right:

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #669 –
Ot#s the sheer hypocrisy of the Ukrainian thing. It is okay for the West to have sanctions on countries it doesn't like or cannot control but if someone else was to do this then they are bad with a capital b. The sheer gall of the White House spokeswoman is ridiculous. No matter what Putin has said about not wanting to annexe the east and his stance on the easterners not having a referendum he gets the blame. There is even talk on further sanctions. When a reporter asked the spokeswoman that perhaps Russia was right in stopping gas because they were not getting paid she just did her ususal silly suff and said using a sanction was wrong!

The Kiev rump is a club of liars and that the West goes along with them and the neo-Nazi support is a disgraceful matter. The nonsense being uttered that the referendums are illegal and against the democratic process is almost laughable. One supposes that destroying the democratic process by Kiev mounting a coup is "different."  You couldn't make this up. As I pointed out we glibly accepted the referendum in a Serbian province (Kosovo)because it suited us but when people in Ukraine do this they are the baddies. Putin has never argued for taking chunks out of Ukraine and in fact the opposite saying that federalism should be discussed. Even though he came out against the east detaching itself against his view I wonder if it would have been okay if he had sent in his army to for them to accept the illegalities going on in Kiev/!

Ukraine and especially the Kiev mob have brought this upon themselves. At no time did they care a damn about those outside of the Western leaning west of the country. Neither did it indicate any interest in discussing things with the Russian speakers. Instead they sent in the army, national guard and allowed the Right Sector to drive over and pot shot people. Shooting people going to the poll and allowing the horrific burning and beating to death of people with no guns. Eastern Ukraine was stabbed in the back even though it is the powerhouse of the economy and we have not helped in getting behind the arrogant gits like that acting Prime Minister and his thugs. Russia is being kicked for having enough of the non-payment for it's oil and even though it wasn't interested in taking chunks of the country they are being blamed for everything. France is still selling warships to Russia as it needs the money. Germany istaking a stance that wioll leave doors open because it knows it's economy will suffer. Much of the world is not on the West side either no matter the stuff churned out.

If the Kiev bandits continue to ignore the east and the bullyboy stuff then maybe Putin will be forced to give up his reasonable stance and go to their aid. The morality of us in the West is disgusting. We will get involved in all sorts of conflicts and wars for our interest. In the end the US and the rest of us should keep our noses out of other countries that have nothing to do with us except for the money men who make the profit out of such. Forcing our idea of democracy onothers is a minsomer. Ukraine as one country is probably finished and that is life so live with it folks. When I watched Hague the Foreign Secretary speaking in parliament about the weighted propaganda from the Russian media Iwas flabbergasted when you consider the lies we are getting hit with in the media in the West.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #670 –
You really do have your knickers on a twist on this one, rjh.

Are you reading old copies of Soviet News or something? If not, where do you get this stuff from. I presume that in the main you and I watch the same news, or do you have other sources of information you might care to share with us?

Anyway you might like to note this:
Salmon asked for help.

A Scottish thing maybe?

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #671 –
I know of an Alex salmond but a Salmon able to speak/ Wonderful news.

As for knickers in a twist it is the West led as usual by America string that is in a twist. You along with many just want to equate modern Russia with the old USSR which is a silly and I am surprised that you take in the utter tripe of Obama, Kerry and William hague. Tey all lied.

Russia has repeatedly stated that it does not want to annex big chunks of Ukraine. Neityher does it want to intrigate those chunks either. It has also said that everyone including those Russian speakers in Ukraine should not get involved in violence. Does any of the things the West yakked about been accepted? no they still berate Russia even though each time it has show that willingness. What surprises me is that an intelligent man like you just accepts the propaganda that we are dished out by our media here and the USas well as po;iticians.So one has to take it that you accepted it was was right for a protest in Kievthat was taken over by fanataics was fine. That they destroyed a democratically elected system. That the same "regime" is now using the army and very dodgy national guards to shoot their way into those that were NOT part of the de-demcratic process.  As for the Russian stance on fuel supplies it is also the bad guy for wanting eventual payment for what it provides. May I also remind that in the previous situation Ukraine siphoned off power illegally. All this is being condemned. Tell you what. you try not paying your gas or electric bill and see what happens to you. It is howeverokay for the West and espeically America to have blockades of gas when it suits. Reducing supplies in countries that are oil suppliers suits America so take that one on board too.

Russia gave Ukraine cheaper supplies than everyone else and still didn't get paid. And while this is STILL going on, the Ukrainian coup gangsters have now cut of the water supply to Crimea. The Crimeans have met with them repeatedly and offered money but just get dance on but that one is okay?? Ukraine was taken over by an illegality and Russia has agreed with set things by the US and EEC but still we get this sneering Cold war attitude.  You might want to think why the EEC is considering financial support (given yet?) to a country not part of the damn European farce.  With IMF money dished out why hasn't Kiev caught up with power payments? How you can just accept the propaganda that is dished out here in the West says something about unused grey cells! One would have thought you were bright enough to see that the Kiev coup was only supported by one half of the country that the east and southeast was not invited and then expected to go along with the system they had voted for done in. You definitely have a problem boy.

May I say in conclusion that I have knickers to get twisted and thankfully but feel sorry you don't have any so increases your problem.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #672 –
Chocolate propaganda nr. 1

Putin figurine. Yummy handmade chocolate made in Lviv, Western Ukraine. Kids can literally bite Putin's head off.


Chocolate propaganda nr. 2

Shokobox.ru is a souvenir chocolate packager based in Saint Petersburg, Russia. Their currently most popular item features a map of Russia and adjacent areas. In the map legend, Russia is designated as "the territory of Russia". Then there's an area called "New territories". If you know geography, you know what place that is. The rest of the adjacent world is designated as "prospective areas".

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #673 –
Quote from: ersi on
Shokobox.ru is a souvenir chocolate packager based in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

Funny the symbols used to illustrate "the territory of Russia". I can see Russian dools, balalaikas and, surprisingly, lots of wheat stalks. They don't need to buy wheat to the United States anymore?
By the way, where's the Vodka's bottles?
A matter of attitude.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #674 –
Huh, I don't think I've ever seen politicized chocolate before.