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Topic: What's Going on in China? (Read 90017 times)

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #125
it's interesting to watch different perceptions of China depending on what they are based on - mass media or personal cognitions gathered at the face.

This guy spent three month traveling with his bike in China.
See the photographs, read a few entries and compare with all that video propaganda...

Just as an example...
A matter of attitude.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #126

This guy spent three month traveling with his bike in China.
See the photographs, read a few entries and compare with all that video propaganda...

Nicely designed website comfortably watchable with old Opera :) Opera fast forwards to the next page  :love:

By the way, you liked the penal system. Did you know it's the deadliest in the world (i.e. most death sentences and they implement it as if on production line too)? And the family policies practically prohibit reproduction.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #127
By the way, you liked the penal system.

The contrary.
Did you know it's the deadliest in the world (i.e. most death sentences and they implement it as if on production line too)?

And families have to pay for the bullet if they want to get the corpse...  marvelous China, indeed...

A matter of attitude.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #128
They use the death penalty as a control method against overpopulation. Like ecofascists, only in practice, not just talking :)

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #129
Two countries in the sinosphere have topped the statistics for death penalty, PRC for the number of executions in total, Singapore for highest rate per capita. However neither publish the number of executions, so those numbers are estimates. Singapore has a review/moratorium in effect, PRC is also reforming its penal code, and reducing the number of death penalties actually carried through. Even so, China is still executing more people than the rest of the world combined.

China Rethinks the Death Penalty
Quote from: Mara Hvistendahl, NYT
In 2006 a group of reform-minded justices began formally advocating moderation in punishment. Led by Xiao Yang, then the Supreme People’s Court chief justice, they pushed the maxim “kill fewer, kill cautiously.” The following year, the high court began reviewing all capital cases, creating a strong disincentive for lower courts to hand out death sentences. The substitution in many cases of suspended death sentences — which in practice means offenders spend about 25 years in prison — was the result.

The shift met resistance from hard-liners who warned of a spike in crime. But pandemonium did not ensue. Some criminologists now argue that the harsh campaigns of the past in fact sparked violent crime, by making criminals reluctant to leave witnesses behind.

Chinese police continue to carry out punitive campaigns. But arrests made during such operations no longer automatically mean death. Even Chen Jun, a migrant worker convicted in a prominent 2008 case of stabbing the Canadian model Diana O’Brien more than 20 times, was given a suspended death sentence. The stabbing happened a mere month before the Beijing Olympics, as the police were cracking down on crimes big and small. Interviews I conducted over the past year with former police investigators, Mr. Chen’s family and Ms. O’Brien’s mother reveal that, in his case, the authorities were eager to show restraint. Instead of retributive justice, his trial suggested an emphasis on reparation and societal harmony.

China’s penal practices are far from enlightened. Even if Mr. Liu’s assertion of halving executions is true, China still executes about 3,000 people a year, according to the Dui Hua Foundation, compared with 39 in the United States in 2013.

But even a preliminary drop in executions is encouraging, allowing people like Li Yan a real shot at justice. Chinese judges and policy makers should continue to heed public calls for restraint. Perhaps, with time, they might even return to China’s benevolent roots.


Capital punishment is a form of population reduction is a meaningless statement. Apart from the convicts above child-bearing age or not in any relationship that would likely end up with a child, the number is too tiny to have any impact.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #130

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #131
I've spent a few days at what would be reported as a Shanghai ghost town, and it has been highly enjoyable. It could best be described as the Chinese idea of the American idea of Venice*, and of course it is much better than the original. Being a ghost town, there are no tourist crowds to contend with. Instead of being grimy and run down, it is brand new, well, maybe not that new, but fresh and unused. It's a town with the cellophane still on.

Like planned residences of its ilk, it has a dozen galleries, but only a single food store, FamilyMart (which does not have milk and bread, but is very well-stocked on instant noodles, red wine and condoms). The other open services are just the needed ones, a restaurant, a coffee bar, and a pub.

An army of migrant workers, often retired, keeps the greenery and the canals immaculate, the guards posted every hundred meters or so ensure the empty streets aren't beset by imaginary assailants and mendicants. when they are not busy keeping an eye on the few dozen residents (for a fleeting moment including me) and real estate agents.

This paradise will be lost. The first phase of construction is over, the second is well on its way. On the other side of the wall can seen the next world. While this world is small-town Eurochimerica with planned diversity, the next is row upon row of identical mock-tudor-mock-baroque townhouse clones rammed together. Nearly sold out of course. Worse than the developer re-think is Shanghai encroaching, what used to be in the utmost wilderness is now urbane. Prices, which had collapsed to a third of the original offer is creeping up towards old levels. Worst of all, people are moving in. Eventually they will make the place their own, the developer will have sold the last unit, and the immaculate hedge trimmers may return home.

* For the Norwegian idea of the American idea of Venice, see The Longest Journey


Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #133
Chinese idea of the American idea of Venice

Beautiful... the American idea of Venice....if that weren't bad enough, you needed to add even worst, the Chinese idea of the American idea.
Poor Venice.
A matter of attitude.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #134
APEC is going on in Huairou, Beijing, which means that the airport security is considerably higher (and slower) than usual, but am at the airport well before the plane leaves, so no trouble.

China-US gulf widens as ‘marginalised’ Obama heads for Beijing summit

(The blue skies of Beijing are overhyped, I'd say the pollution is slightly higher than average, way above a couple weeks ago, though still probably good for this time of year. Media reality being what it is, expect stories about how unnaturally blue the sky is, to the shock and awe of the gawking Beijingers who have never seen anything outdoors of that colour. Never let ugly facts ruin a good story.)



Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #135
Among the not-so-surprising Breaking News, wheels have been in motion for over a year, but still momentous: China arrests ex-security chief Zhou Yongkang

Quote from: BBC
Ex-security chief Zhou Yongkang, the most senior Chinese official to be investigated for corruption, has been arrested and expelled from the Communist Party, state media report.

The Supreme People's Procuratorate, China's top prosecuting body, said it had opened a formal probe against him.

Before he retired two years ago, Mr Zhou was the head of China's vast internal security apparatus.


Bloomberg made a beautiful infographic, How to Catch a Tiger in China

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #136
I also appears that the President is now getting his sights on military corruption at high levels involving vast amounts of money and laundering
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #137
Chinese corruption targets Zhou, Bo formed 'clique' to challenge capitalist policy, says state media

Quote from: ABC
China's state media has linked the country's former security chief Zhou Yongkang, who is awaiting trial, with disgraced leader Bo Xilai in a conspiracy to wind back capitalism in the country.



It is the first time that reports have officially surfaced that the two most high-profile politicians to fall in recent years had formed a "clique" that also threatened the Communist party's warnings against factionalism.

The two men "celebrated their political rapport" and vowed to "play a big game", the China Daily said, citing a lengthy report in Hong Kong's Phoenix Weekly magazine.


And today: China's spy chief Ma Jian in corruption probe  :wine:

Quote from: BBC



China has confirmed it is investigating a powerful intelligence chief, Ma Jian, for corruption.

The Communist Party's discipline watchdog said Mr Ma was suspected of "serious violations" of the law.

Mr Ma is the latest high-ranking figure to be targeted in an ongoing crackdown on corruption among party officials.

He is vice-minister in the Ministry of State Security, which oversees foreign and counterintelligence operations.

No further details were given in the one-line statement on the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection's website, but the wording used typically applies to a corruption probe.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #138
interesting that Communism and democracy have something in common - corruption.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #139
What's Going on in China?

Nice infographic, How to Catch a Tiger in China.
Nobody knows what's going on in China.

Many many years ago, I remember reading a small book at my father's personal library called "And when China wakes up?"
Written at the Seventies by a French ex ambassador in China that married a Chinese woman and lived all his life there.
Prophetic.
A matter of attitude.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #140

What's Going on in China?

Nice infographic, How to Catch a Tiger in China.
Nobody knows what's going on in China.

Many many years ago, I remember reading a small book at my father's personal library called "And when China wakes up?"
Written at the Seventies by a French ex ambassador in China that married a Chinese woman and lived all his life there.
Prophetic.


China though communist has such a disparity in wealth.  China could be on a verge of a revolution or umplosion. Their will be a power grab within someday.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #141
There is a power grab just about every day. That is the rationale for having (s)elections, they are so much less disruptive than revolutions.

Whether the Communist Party of China will retain the Mandate of Heaven depends mostly on the Party itself, the Party and especially the central leadership is fairly popular. There is no reason currently why there should be a revolution, even with the fastest growing middle class anywhere, and the middle class is famously finicky. If the Party can rule sanely and popularly (not always the same thing) and keep Party discipline and avoid too excessive excesses, they might govern for a long time. If they can't, they would have themselves to blame.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #142
An excellent summation.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #143
  http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141467/andrew-j-nathan/modern-chinas-original-sin
Quote
  On May 3, 2014, about a dozen rights activists met in a private apartment in Beijing, where they held a seminar marking the 25th anniversary of the protests and crackdown in Tiananmen Square. Since that night, most of the activists have disappeared. At least one of them, Pu Zhiqiang, a human rights lawyer, has been formally detained (the prelude to a criminal charge) for “picking quarrels and provoking trouble.”

In a way, none of this is surprising. China is an authoritarian regime. Whoever challenges it takes a risk. But what is surprising is that this small group of activists had held the same kind of meeting for several years without getting into trouble. The fact that they weren’t as lucky this year is one sign among many that repression in China has not only not eased in recent years but is getting worse./quote]

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #144

Nobody knows what's going on in China.

Many many years ago, I remember reading a small book at my father's personal library called "And when China wakes up?"
Written at the Seventies by a French ex ambassador in China that married a Chinese woman and lived all his life there.
Prophetic.

Did he know for sure his wife was a woman? (I mean, I hope the book you refer to was not by Bernard Boursicot.)

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #145
Always the same when a country acts like a bully.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #146
Civil liberties do not have a positive trend. This goes back to the run-up to the last national selection in 2012, where the leathership seemed more jittery than I've seen before, and it hasn't stopped since. The 10 years of Hu didn't challenge the status quo in nearly the same way. The last selection campaign was ruthless, and the tiger hunting season isn't over yet, but we are at the stage where the new generation leadership traditionally is in full control. Dissent wasn't exactly encouraged, but it was tolerated/ignored as long as it wasn't organised, or harming somebody's profits (a dangerous gambit).

I would say that the China, for all its other advances, is more totalitarian today than five years ago. Instead of China taking up more of Western liberal traditions it rather seems that the West and the Rest have been taking up of more of  Chinese people management techniques. Whether this is the inevitable one step back after those couple steps forward, or the first step in a series remains to be seen.

However, in good taoist tradition, this trend may contain a more powerful opposite. This article I think sums it up: Struggling for Justice: China's Courts and the Challenge of Reform

Quote
In November 2012, the Chinese Communist Party's 18th National Congress introduced a new elite to govern the country for the next 10 years under the leadership of party General Secretary, and soon to be President, Xi Jinping. Among the confusing welter of subsequent developments, three trends appear to have emerged relating to law, justice and the courts.

First, repression of constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of expression has become even harsher than under the previous administration led by Hu Jintao, with the courts as well as the police and procuracy serving as the evident tools of the party's new elite. Almost daily accounts on the Internet and in social media report examples of arbitrary conviction of nongovernmental reformers, human rights proponents, political dissidents, religious figures, minority protesters and other activists, as well as gross mistreatment of the accused and their would-be lawyers, witnesses, families and supporters, both inside and outside the courtroom.

Second, legislation relating to criminal justice has, by and large, nevertheless continued to improve. One of the earliest acts of the new administration was to endorse and promulgate a substantially amended criminal procedure law that, as already indicated, in many respects promises increased fairness in the court system. At its most recent meeting, the NPC Standing Committee finally abolished the pernicious system of "re-education through labor," the most infamous of several supposedly "noncriminal" administrative punishments that have undermined the power of the courts by authorizing the police to condemn people to detention in a labor camp without necessary judicial involvement. As Zhou Qiang, China's newly appointed chief justice, alerted the courts last fall, one of the immediate consequences of this legislated progress toward the rule of law would in all likelihood be a very significant increase in court burdens, since many cases formerly disposed of through "re-education through labor" would soon be prosecuted as minor crimes and require court approval.

The third trend is the most interesting for our purposes. It is the recent effort of high-level law reformers within the party as well as the judiciary to transform relevant party and government ideology, policy and disciplinary systems in ways that will reduce the huge existing gap between repressive practice and enlightened legislation in the administration of criminal justice. This effort is centered in the new leadership of the Supreme People's Court (SPC) headed by Zhou, who, unlike his predecessors, combines high-ranking status within the party with impressive legal skills and a zest for reform.

Zhou and his colleague, Deputy Chief Justice Shen Deyong, are obviously seeking to rescue the traditionally poor reputation of the national court system. The credibility of the courts has recently been further damaged by, among other things, the many recently publicized wrongful convictions. Even Xi and his choice to head the party's Central Political-Legal Commission, former Minister of Public Security Meng Jianzhu, have publicly and repeatedly recognized the urgent need to instill popular confidence in the courts.

Indeed, in January 2013 they initiated the current campaign to bolster the courts, and in late February Xi delivered a speech to a study session of the party Politburo devoted to problems of the rule of law. Xi urged the judicial organs to cope with "the deep issues that interfere with judicial justice and restrain judicial capacity." The courts and the procuracy must be allowed to carry out adjudication and prosecution independently and impartially, he stated, and he made clear that this would require restraint on party organizations at all levels, which "must act within the boundaries of the constitution and the laws."

Xi's remarks opened the way for a series of speeches by Zhou and Shen during the spring and summer that focused on correcting and preventing wrongful convictions. In May, in a long article published in the SPC's newspaper that elaborated on his speeches, Shen boldly set forth both the spirit and detailed prescriptions of the new campaign. In addition to stressing the importance of judges and their commitment to professional standards, Shen wrote that China must abandon the presumption of guilt that infects practice. "We would rather wrongfully release a person than wrongfully convict someone," he added. The presumption of innocence, he stated, forbids convicting an accused where the evidence is insufficient and then giving him a less severe punishment as a kind of compromise, a practice that I have personally encountered in advising in Chinese human rights cases.

Shen emphasized the value of judges complying with legal procedures, especially the presumption of innocence, and applying science and technology to evidence in order to avoid unjust outcomes. "From the perspective of preventing wrongful conviction," he stated, "defense lawyers are the most trustworthy and reliable force" and their legal rights must be respected. Shen frankly admitted that injustices often resulted from Chinese courts taking orders from outside sources, abandoning their principles or being sloppy in their work.

Not long after Shen's essay, the Ministry of Public Security announced its support for the campaign. Then in July, the Central Party Political-Legal Commission (CPLC) issued its stunning "Provisions on Earnest Prevention of Miscarriage of Justice," one of the most important official human rights documents to appear in China in recent years.

With none of the ideological cliches that too often mark party and legal documents, the provisions, after a brief confirmation that they are based on the instructions of Xi Jinping and the CPLC leadership, set forth the goal of preventing miscarriages of justice through "strict adherence to legal procedure." This would "punish crime in accordance with law, respect and safeguard human rights, increase the credibility of the judicial system, and uphold social fairness and justice." Though a tall order indeed, the candid recognition of the failings of the criminal justice system revealed in the 15 articles that followed and their specific recommendations for improvement certainly suggested the seriousness with which China's most authoritative legal institution viewed the situation.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #147
I think that although a one-party dictatorship it has at the same time completely changed the aspects of society. The place is completely different from the even more frugal days of the little red Book attitude. Although there are occasional outbursts I do not see any great change for some time as the modernity is appealing to the population more than bothering about politics. We know there are cruel camps but the Germans in the days of the Third Reich seen many who were not stupid just going along with things as society improved then 'Strength Through Joy', etc.

So with all modern things for people to buy and use they will as I say just stick with the regime for a while.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #148
Hong kong is resisting and all you need is one territory thrashing back at their government.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #149
The Hong Kong/Mainland relationship is more complicated than that. The government of Hong Kong has never been democratically elected. Hong Kong was a directly-ruled colony of Britain until it was transferred to China in 1997 (for the 50 years "one country, two systems" transition), with the promise of democratic elections somewhere in the horizon. There will be a first ever public election for the Chief Executive of Hong Kong in 2017. However, the candidates will be vetted in Beijing, which means that the elections will not be all that free.

The biggest issue don't seem to be democracy as such, but the proximity of Mainland China. The border between the two isn't fully open, but it is semi-permeable, meaning it isn't too hard for Mainland Chinese to visit Hong Kong.

And they do in huge numbers. The rich and super-rich go to Hong Kong, often richer than the native rich and super-rich, dropping a lot of money, but also driving up prices. The migrant workers go to Hong Kong looking for a means of living, which in the view of many locals cause social problems, and drive down the wages while driving up the housing cost. Masses of tourists go to Hong Kong, dropping a lot of money, but they are still tourists, and nobody likes tourists. I love Hong Kong, but life's too short to stand in line for Hong Kong tourist attractions (then again, Europe is a tourist attraction, it isn't really that much worse).

A majority polled tended to be against the student movement, for a practical reason that it is bad for business, and a real worry that Hong Kong is losing out to Shanghai. The Hong Kong-Guangdong (Canton) has lead to a lot of the prosperity in Hong Kong, and in Guangdong, but Shanghai is up-and-coming.

Beijing too is in a bind. It certainly wouldn't want any contagion from unrest in Hong Kong, HK students that participated in the demonstrations are barred from entering the mainland. On the other hand Hong Kong and particularly Singapore is in the direction they want the mainland to go. Harming that model would make little sense. Furthermore, both the Communist Party in Mainland China and the Kuomintang/Guomindang Party in Taiwan agree that Taiwan and Mainland China should be reunited, though they differ on which party should do the reuniting. Trouble in Hong Kong would be a deterrent for such a plan.