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Poll

Should Scotland be an independent country?

Yes.
[ 8 ] (57.1%)
No.
[ 6 ] (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Topic: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time (Read 98379 times)

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #275 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
Smiley--- don't you read history books at all? Seems I remember reading once before England did invade Scotland.


Laddie, this is 2014, not King Edward's 1296

Nope, the only other saving grace that the 2 remaining vestiges of the once powerful British Empire could use is if England has the name 'Pound' registered as an international trademark, or if they have any international copyright holdings on the name's use. But then again, they would have to go to the courts to enjoin Scotland from using the name.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #276 –
The issue isn't what the currency should be called if the Scots were to vote for independence, but what currency would be used. Keep using the British pound, either in a currency union or using it anyway, is to me a transitional choice. If they were to opt for a separate currency, they might call it pound or escudo or what have you, the perks of a sovereign nation.

I would be very surprised if that vote actually would happen. At actual voting time fear tends to trump loathing, and this is a referendum where you know what you will get with one alternative, but not with the other. Merely skirting 50/50 won't do. Also I suspect that many more that are going to vote NO or abstain are going to say that they intend to vote YES in opinion polls than the other way around. There is no harm in telling you are going to vote for independence, and it could put a scare into the ruling classes. NO is very much the establishment choice. If the polls had gone more like 60/40 it would be more ex(c)iting.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #277 –
No, they can't call it Escudo.

The problem with the currency it's in the first place if it will be a currency of their own or using other currency.
It the British Pound that will mean no control whatsoever over financial instruments - no independence.
If the Euro, the situation will be the same but with a difference, they will benefit from some economic (not strictly financial) instruments.

If their own currency, the problem is not whatever it will be called but it's value and solidity against international financial speculation. Basically it will be others to decide how much it values.

It surprises me having independence first and only then remember they need a currency...
Same goes with other fundamental decisions. I think the Yes movement  would have much more chances if presenting an image of someone that knows what they are doing and presenting a credible alternative.
A matter of attitude.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #278 –
Of course they could if they wanted to, but they don't so they wouldn't. There is no trademark on currency names, so there are tons of pounds and dollars and dinars and the rest. If there were, the Czechs should make a pretty penny on the dollar and the tolar.

(Thanks to the above Wikipedia list over mostly defunct currencies, I now know the Euro didn't completely kill off the Mark. There were only two marks left, the German Mark and the Finnish Markka, but while they were subsumed by the Euro, Bosnia and Herzegovina are keepers of the mark flame.)

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #279 –
Quote from: jax on
Of course they could if they wanted to, but they don't so they wouldn't.

Nope. How they could use it if they can't even pronounce it... :)

That's interesting, to invent a currency for them... I suggest the Scot. It sounds well and identifies it perfectly. A coffee? - one hundred Scots please... :)
A matter of attitude.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #280 –
Quote from: SmileyFaze on
If the Scots decide on using the Pound designation, do they need England's (Brittan's) permission?

No. As has been pointed out to them many times and that they eventually admitted, any country in the world can use the pound. A currency union would be the sensible solution for all. But Westminster politicians seem to wish to cut off their nose to spite their face at the moment.

Hell mend them I say.
The start and end to every story is the same. But what comes in between you have yourself to blame.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #281 –
John Oliver pleads for Scotland to stay:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YkLPxQp_y0[/video]

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #282 –
Just in case you can't view Frenzies link (I couldn't), here's an alternative.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRKND8QbbbE[/video]


Funny stuff.
The start and end to every story is the same. But what comes in between you have yourself to blame.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #283 –
Quote from: Belfrager on
That's interesting, to invent a currency for them... I suggest the Scot. It sounds well and identifies it perfectly. A coffee? - one hundred Scots please... :)


How it is pronounced, even how it is spelled doesn't matter. A dollar is a tolar is a Thaler is a Taler (modern German spelling, like how Neanderthal became Neandertal) is a daler. Maybe somebody will one day come up with a Valley as a currency.

So what about an Escoto? The value of an escoto could initially be pegged to the price of an espresso, in which case the price of a coffee would be an escoto. What could be simpler?

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #284 –
Quote from: jax on
So what about an Escoto? The value of an escoto could initially be pegged to the price of an espresso, in which case the price of a coffee would be an escoto. What could be simpler?

:lol:
Beautiful. I love the Escoto. If adopted, I swear that I'll open an account in a Scottish Bank in Escotos.

(Not to be confused with the Escroto, that will mean the Scrotum... something not too much adequate to turn into a currency.)
A matter of attitude.
 

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #285 –
The pound could be continued as a name on any possibility of separation - the Irish did that and it should be reminded there was a difference in it's rate. However there would be no central bank and if the bank situation under the last national government had happened in a detached Scotland it would have been a nightmare (as it was in Ireland). How you can want to be independent and be attached to another country's bank (Bank of England) is cake and eat it.

In amongst the polling stuff we get there are odd contradictions for both sides however one newpaper has given a most interesting assessment on Sunday. It looked at the Salmond aim to get into traditional labour places and the paper said that some may well have thought of Yes but in the same working class areas they have been drifting back to No. Of course in political terms it made sense for the SNP to go after that corner as the hundreds of thousands of Troies plus LibDems were not going to budge. Leaving aside the Net fiasco there has been more than a touch of aggression on the Yes side. No hoardings destroyed in rural Scotland, wanting to have marches to polling stations, calling people traitors if not on the Yes side. These have been unfortunate traits that have been ignored by Salmond. Even that leftie loony, Jim Sillars a former Deputy Leader, going about on television arrogantly and in threatening mode as to what "they" would do with No companies in an independent scenario. Salmond should have ticked him off but instead did a dance and came out with the comment that everyone would be safe.

On Saturday afternoon in Buchanan Street I mixed with Yes people for an argument but what got me and with a few others I know that were Yes was that they just ignored things they didn't understand on simple matters. The downright lie that Salmond said about what Scotland votes for and what it gets I have already mentioned here and hit them with that but it was body swerved with some other things. Instead where they could not give a reasonable or sensible answer one just got the repeat of wonderful Salmond unfortunate untruths.

Folk can waves saltires and be as active as they want but there are an awful lot of people who are rather quieter by nature and some hesitant about saying where they stand in case they are regarded as traitors and quislings as others in the public eye have suffered. Using the terms as underdogs the establishment and such are an insult to intelligence and the emotive flow gets the Nats carried away.  I am as obvious a staunch No supporter but I too like an awful lot of Scots are fed up to the teeth with the constant stuff we keep getting bombarded with night after night on television and of course the papers. Many people who once alone have said they intend to vote No but have tended routinely to keep it to themselves as they may not be loud and forthright as the flag wavers.The truth is that the majority of Scots cannot wait until Thursday to get a bit of damn peace and it cannot come too soon.

"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #286 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
The truth is that the majority of Scots cannot wait until Thursday to get a bit of damn peace and it cannot come too soon.

Ain't that the truth.
I'm beginning to develop a debate phobia and I'm scared to turn on my TV.
The start and end to every story is the same. But what comes in between you have yourself to blame.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #287 –
Oh it won't stop there, we can either either look forward to a period of bitter fluffiness or bitter animosity - take your pick.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #288 –
If Scotland votes "Yes", I'm waiting to see what they do about the currency.

When these colonies went to independence, we had probably a dozen different currencies floating around--- the Pound being only one of the ones recognized on some level. Spanish coins were in use, French coins, Germanic coins-- plus tons and tons of scrip that had value based upon the wealth of the person who originally offered the scrip in payment.

Right now, Scotland really only has the Pound Sterling, so they're pretty much screwed if the Central Bank in England makes "no" stick and they have to find something else. These days you can't have Scottish privateers raiding Spanish treasure galleons in the Caribbean, so that method of getting currency is out. Gotta come up with something else.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #289 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on

If Scotland votes "Yes", I'm waiting to see what they do about the currency.

When these colonies went to independence, we had probably a dozen different currencies floating around--- the Pound being only one of the ones recognized on some level. Spanish coins were in use, French coins, Germanic coins-- plus tons and tons of scrip that had value based upon the wealth of the person who originally offered the scrip in payment.

Right now, Scotland really only has the Pound Sterling, so they're pretty much screwed if the Central Bank in England makes "no" stick and they have to find something else. These days you can't have Scottish privateers raiding Spanish treasure galleons in the Caribbean, so that method of getting currency is out. Gotta come up with something else.

As it would drive Mr. Howie insane, I vote that Scotland goes with the world's reserve currency, the US Dollar.  

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #290 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
If Scotland votes "Yes", I'm waiting to see what they do about the currency.


Quote
The Republican-controlled Virginia House of Delegates on Monday advanced legislation that could lead to the establishment of a state-issued currency.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/05/virginia-currency_n_2625047.html

The idea still gets tossed around here.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #291 –
Quote from: ensbb3 on

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
If Scotland votes "Yes", I'm waiting to see what they do about the currency.


Quote
The Republican-controlled Virginia House of Delegates on Monday advanced legislation that could lead to the establishment of a state-issued currency.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/05/virginia-currency_n_2625047.html

The idea still gets tossed around here.


Oh, boy. If Mike Madigan hears of this, we're screwed for sure.

Think of it. Illinois with its own currency. Two wheelbarrows full of Madigans to buy a loaf of bread, at least six wheelbarrows full of Madigans if you want to buy gasoline-- hey, nobody said the official currency of Illinois would be worth much.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #292 –
OK. Time for a serious question here.

Let's suppose the vote goes to the "Yes" camp in Thursday's election. Scotland becomes independent of the rest of the UK on a set date (not sure, I haven't heard what date that would be).

What happens next? Has anybody figured that out, does anybody on the Yes side have a clue of "what's next"?

We've already batted about the issue of currency, and so far what I hear is not promising. Now, I read in yet another blog that the "Yes" camp is made up of so many disparate groups that each think they'll be "top dog", and the end result is likely to be a governmental train-wreck of epic proportions. It would be like what would happen if these  "Occupy" groups here actually got into power--- with so many competing factions, the "Occupy" government-- if it could be called a government-- would implode overnight, leaving discord in its wake.

So--- who's gonna be in charge, and--- do they have a workable plan?
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #293 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on

OK. Time for a serious question here.

Let's suppose the vote goes to the "Yes" camp in Thursday's election. Scotland becomes independent of the rest of the UK on a set date (not sure, I haven't heard what date that would be).

What happens next? Has anybody figured that out, does anybody on the Yes side have a clue of "what's next"?

We've already batted about the issue of currency, and so far what I hear is not promising. Now, I read in yet another blog that the "Yes" camp is made up of so many disparate groups that each think they'll be "top dog", and the end result is likely to be a governmental train-wreck of epic proportions. It would be like what would happen if these  "Occupy" groups here actually got into power--- with so many competing factions, the "Occupy" government-- if it could be called a government-- would implode overnight, leaving discord in its wake.

So--- who's gonna be in charge, and--- do they have a workable plan?

As I understand it, from some brief research, Scotland would be granted full independence in 2016; not sure if it'd be 18th of September or not.

The two year allowance would allow the proper negotiations to take place, and they would probably take that long anyway, especially the oil and currency arguments.

Also, IIRC, the problem will come when the General Election rolls around in 2015. Scotland would still, at that time, be considered a part of the UK, but would be on it's way out. What happens to the Labour MP's in Scotland during that time? The lone Scottish Tory? Do they vacate their seats on 19th of September of this year? Do Scots get to vote in the GE?

As you say, lots of interesting questions to be answered.

My interest will be in their (Independent Scottish) immigration policy.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #294 –
The Nationalists claim in a Yes situation the whole thing would be accomplished in 1 months. What utter bunk. Oh they could have a pound but in time it would not be the same value as the UK. On top of that the whole system would change. Everything from pensions, things like road tax and everything inbetween. Unlike the rest of the UK there would be no central bank so in a ciris like a few years ago what then? Only a tiny handful of soliders, etc want to be part of a 'Scottish F=Defence Force' so where would they get the military? The UK and all main parties have made it clear that if you go your own way there will be no sharing and as I said the SNP claims that the UK is bluffing on not having a shared currency. How stupid is that stance by the nationalists? If the UK voted in the proposed Referendum on the EEC and came out an independent Scotland which the Nats want in the EEC then there would definitely have to be border controls to stop immigrants getting into the south. The SNP leader, that muffin head, Salmond has said that if no shared currency then he would renege on the share of the UK National Debt. Now that in turn would create difficult obtaining loans globally starting with a debt default.

The main Yes support is amongst the 20/30 age range but older people by a considerable majority are No supporters and many of the 15 and 17's are too. It was a daft thing to allow 16 and 17's to vote in the Referendum when they cannot vote in any other election.  My cousin and husband have made plans to leave and take all their considerable money with them either to England or America. O would maybe consider Ulster. Some companies have already prepared to switch money south and the banks will move their HQ's there too.

Apart from this there is a nasty element that doesn't normally appear here in elections. Yes we know in fairness it can come from both sides bu the Yes lot are away our in front for being vicious, arrogant and nasty. Time after time No posters have been either destroyed or stuck over with Yes stuff. No politicians have been harried well neyond the traditional heckling into mobs of threatening gangs. Indeed they threaten and miscall, curse and swear. At the weekend a thousand turned up outside the BBC Scottish HQ in Glasgow screaming like demented nut cases saying the corporation was bias. All because a BBC leading journalist didn't get a proper answer from Salmond and asked again for it. No people have been harried as traitors, scum and rubbished. None of this antic comes from the NO side nor do you see Yes hoardings, posters, etc destroyed like the crazed separatists are doing.The other daft thing is that in an independent Scotland it doesn't mean the SNP will be the dictators. Another one of the three main Unionist parties could win a future election but be stuck with all the cras headaches that well surface

Intimidation has been the rigour unlike normal elections and is a damn disgrace. Many are too cautious about stating their stance knowing how they will be treated. Well they tried their nonsense with me when they took over the pedestrianised Buchanan Street but I got verbally stuck into the Brigadoon loony bin modern day Jacobites. Salmond has said one single vote of a win is enough well I say the same from my side and like many of the No people who are reticent to speak out will have the chance to give the bully boys a knock out.

For all their yelling, lies, sneering and threatening I remain quietly confident that my side will be the majority on Thursday. And you know what? In a No vote the Scots parliament would have even more powers given to it by the UK and I bet Salmond and is tartan loonies will claim they made that happen!

PROUD TO BE SCOTTISH
PROUD TO BE BRITISH
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #295 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
Let's suppose the vote goes to the "Yes" camp in Thursday's election. Scotland becomes independent of the rest of the UK on a set date (not sure, I haven't heard what date that would be).

So--- who's gonna be in charge, and--- do they have a workable plan?


Pretty much what Czechoslovakia did when that country turned into the Czech Republic and Slovakia. You have common committees going through all the details of the divorce settlement. This will bind up most of the bureaucratic resources in both countries for the next few years, don't expect much in the line of policy and law change for a while. The Less United Kingdom is going to be more inward-looking for the period (like what happened with Germany when West Germany gobbled up East Germany, though that process was much more complicated).

The Scot-free Kingdom, much like the Czech Republic before it, will have to re-invent their nationality, name, flag, anthem, the works. By comparison Slovakia had, and Scotland would have, the package pretty much readymade. The "Czech Republic" (Česká republika) name was a compromise, there had never been a country with that name. Somewhat jarringly the formal English name is "Czech Republic", not "the Czech Republic", but the real battle was in Czech. The parts known in English as Bohemia and Moravia (and a rump part of Silesia), are known as Čechy, Morava and Slezsko respectively. Calling the country Čechy would upset the Moravians (Moravian nationalists wanted the name Czechomoravia) and the Silesians, taking the rump part of the Czech and Slovak name for Czechoslovakia, Československo, that is Česko, was rejected as too ugly. Some use it though, including yours truly.

The flag was easy, the Czechs simply appropriated the Czechoslovak flag. The Slovaks didn't like that so much, but they didn't put up much of a fight. Something similar could happen here.

I assume that there will be new elections, come a Yes, both in Scotland and the Non-Scottish Kingdom. There are parlaments in London and Edinburgh, but they were elected under the aegis of the soon-to-dissolved United Kingdom. Letting politicians of the past decide the countries' futures wouldn't be right.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #296 –
Prof. Ilya Somin (…over at the Volokh Conspiracy — a well-known "hotbed" of conservatism!) mentions, and discusses, the interim constitution proposed by the current Scottish government: A constitution 'for an independent Scotland that would likely be adopted by the Scottish parliament should the “yes” side prevail.' (see here)


@rj: I didn't read your post… There are so many reasons already for me to be opposed to the "Yes" position that I could easily have sustained the knee-jerk response to your "logic" and its expression…and kept my original opinion.
But the temptation is strong! (Not, to read your posts — your ability to mangle English in a "too clever by half" manner has waned…; but to react to them, since you've never adequately explained your animus.) If you, indeed, were representative of the Scots, I'd be sorely tempted to say "Good luck!" and (…is this an Americanism?) "Don't let the door hit you [on the ass] on your way out…" (which only means, "Don't dawdle!")


I confess: I don't really know what some of your countrymen are thinking… Can you tell me what their grievances are? (If I already missed it, my apologies. But that's still mostly your own fault… :) )
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #297 –
Oakdale-- maybe you SHOULD read Howie's post. Surprisingly, he doesn't mangle the English language in this latest offering. I don't know if he engaged and used Spell-Check or if he had an editor look it over or he just took extra care, but-- this time around his post is surprisingly readable.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #298 –
Quote from: Colonel Rebel on
Scotland would be granted full independence in 2016; not sure if it'd be 18th of September or not.

The Scottish Government proposes that Scotland’s Independence Day will be on 24 March 2016.

Quote from: rjhowie on
None of this antic comes from the NO side nor do you see Yes hoardings, posters, etc destroyed like the crazed separatists are doing.

Take off your blinkers, you are either blind or deliberately ignoring the trouble that the no lot cause. The shouting eejits are equal on both sides as are the defacing of yes/no signs and posters. Much worse are the assaults and threats that come almost exclusively from the no side.





Another assault on Sunday evening by two no supporting yobs on a "yes" street artist in Edinburgh. See you don't mention the "loyalists" (we know who they are don't we), who because of their intimidation, forced the SSP to cancel their meeting in Drumchapel last night. Funny that.
Quote from: rjhowie on
In a No vote the Scots parliament would have even more powers given to it by the UK

More powers my arse. believe that and you will believe anything. We've had our jam tomorrow promises before, they never materialise.
The start and end to every story is the same. But what comes in between you have yourself to blame.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #299 –
Take away their Viagra. Do it today.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!