The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Topic: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time (Read 98418 times)

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #175 – 2014-07-15, 19:04:41

I see that the British Government is dangling a Spaceport in front of Scotland.

Scotland could be base for spaceport, says UK government

It's not clear to me who the customers would be for this Spaceport - at the moment it seems to be aimed at the Virgin Galactic, the "Spaceplane" that will be sent to a height of around 110km. As for real space missions things are clearly still decided unless the "power that be" know a lot more than they're letting on.

As a commercial venture it may or may not work, it depends really on who the actual customers might be; the cosy kudos of having something as grand as ones very own "Spaceport" does not do it for me - there have to be paying customers.

Clearly Virgin Galactic are likely to attract some people with more money than most and there could be a significant tourist spin-off.

Well OK - I'm not yet convinced but willing to become so. Whatever brings in the dosh I guess.

But at any rate the political message re Scotland is clear - vote "No" and look what you might get, vote "Yes" and it will be south of the border.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #176 – 2014-07-15, 19:21:30

Spaceport? That reminds me of this video I saw a few days ago.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snph22qSUMU[/video]

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #177 – 2014-07-15, 19:58:12

Well I would be prepared to be reasonable and let Alex Salmond and his infatuated deputy, Nicola Sturegon be volunteers for a space rocket. If they didn't get back i would ackowledge their space efforts.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #178 – 2014-08-21, 13:19:47

I'm inclined to agree, rjh.

But tell me - what's your assessment of the situation now;

Will Scotland go for broke?

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #179 – 2014-08-21, 18:09:37

It's a difficult thing to assess string as most seem to act like any general election and keep quite. I have a union Flag on an upstairs bedroom sticking out the front of the house. There are few Saltires here and ther and the Yes lot were up around 4% recently. Kind of contradicts the debate on tv between that snide smart alec Salmond and darling who was brilliant. Salmond didn't know what face to put on. He gets away with his bullying and sneering at the Scottish Parliament but this was very much different and he later had to admit on the currency he was on the back burner so to speak.

However on a more practical basis there are some interesting things regarding the No Campaign. The Unionists side has had to publicly intimate they cannot take any more donations for the campaign re Scotland staying in the Union as they have reached the legal limit (!). Doctors in the National Health Service in a survey over 61% are against independence and the polls at University level on the young voters show a distinct No support. When I tackle the ordinary person in the street kind of think it is a case of them repeating what Salmond says but when I press ontaxes, pensions, costs of embassies, currency and much more thae are unsettled. It was the height of nonsenses for the UK Government to allow 16 and 17's to vote in the referendum when they cannot do so in city or national elctions, etc. Salmond thought he would stitch up the more radical views of the young. However as I said earlier all the Secondary school puils in every one in Salmond's northeast corner of Scotland did a mock Referendum and they voted "NO." Wel except the Special School. Last week Jim Sillars that in your face nationalist with very leftist mindset toured in a multi-coloured van with his late wife's picture emblazoned on it (Margo McDonald). When he drove in the west of Glasgow where I live he was chased down the street near a school by Secondary School teenagers shouting "Naw."

Having been socked on not having any Plan B because the UK won't allow a shared currecny, Salmond and the Nationalists are screaming out that the NHS will be a criteria now. That is obviously because of the financial questions. He has been shouting about the NHS in England & Wales "getting privatised." This is keech (to use a good ole Scots word) as patients are not charged where the NHS uses the Private corner. However I can tell you a very revealing thing. The NHS in DScotland is solely under the control of the Scots Government in Edinburgh so he is misusing the health matter. On top of that over the period of the SNP Government they have spent a billion pounds on using the private sector themselves!

My one distracted puzzlement is why the polls are close but my view is that Scotland will vote no. A well known and independent professor on economics (appears on tv a lot and highly regarded) has stated that the Yes Campaign is making a grave mistake thinking it is going to harbour the "don't know" lot. That the SNP is trying to lie on things like the national Health Service and much else will be an important factor and on the second and final debate to be held on the BBC will be a great added boost to the Unionists Nationalist have become unstuck on the young vote and older people who are more inclined to vote will not want to jump into the unknown. Whatever there vote is they will not overtake the NO campaignSo I sate here that Scotland will still be in the United Kingdom of Gt Britain & N. Ireland

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #180 – 2014-08-23, 13:08:04

Well I hope you are right about the last remark. The SNP/Yes Campaign has done little but make false claims bout the future Scottish Economy should Scotland separate and ferment bad relations between us. They are doing great harm. Already there are signs that the Scottish Financial Sector, a source of wealth in Scotland, is thinking of leaving, perhaps as early as the day after the Referendum and even before, and their predictions of oil wealth for ever is sadly in conflict with reality.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #181 – 2014-08-23, 16:29:18

Quote from: string on 2014-08-23, 14:08:04

The No campaign has done little but make false claims about the future Scottish Economy should Scotland separate

Fixed that for you.

Guess it depends on which side you get your propaganda from.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #182 – 2014-08-23, 17:02:31

An independent Scotland shouldn’t adopt the euro but the Norwegian krone

Quote from: Quartz

The logic behind this point is that oil changes the economic cycle of a country. The easiest way to think about this is to reflect on the effect of the oil price. If the oil price is high, a country that heavily relies on oil production does well and non-producers tend to do less well, because they are paying higher prices for their fuel. When oil prices are low, this reverses.

Anyone who had a passing interest in the eurozone crisis will know that the problems between the Mediterranean periphery countries and their northern neighbors were partly caused by the fact that they needed different levels of interest rates to suit their economies. An independent Scotland would suffer a similar fate, albeit for different reasons. The more that oil dominates an economy, the less well suited it is to European integration.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #183 – 2014-08-23, 17:26:03

Assuming the guy's right, and it sounds at the very least plausible that one size doesn't fit all, how does the US deal with this?

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #184 – 2014-08-23, 17:41:06

Same way as the EU will, supposedly, effectively by migration. As American states don't have their own currencies, a countercyclical state can't float their currencies, tax income and services suffer, unemployment will rise and the unemployed will have to move, and the uncompetitive businesses close. Come better times people might move back in again.

In the EU the population in the Scandinavian countries is ballooning, while the neighbouring Baltic states have their population falling.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #185 – 2014-08-23, 19:50:37

Quote from: jax on 2014-08-23, 17:02:31

An independent Scotland shouldn’t adopt the euro but the Norwegian krone

I see, now they're are turning Norwegians... is there any chance of just being Scotland? nope, it doesn't seems so...
Some people just needs to be under other's domination.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #186 – 2014-08-23, 20:10:58

Quote from: jax on 2014-08-23, 17:41:06

Same way as the EU will, supposedly, effectively by migration. As American states don't have their own currencies, a countercyclical state can't float their currencies, tax income and services suffer, unemployment will rise and the unemployed will have to move, and the uncompetitive businesses close. Come better times people might move back in again.

Right, and in the US we think of moving from New York to Chicago as about equally remarkable as moving from Hamburg to Düsseldorf, while somehow moving to *gasp* Copenhagen or *double gasp* Amsterdam would be a big move to a whole different country, but in practice the same phenomenon might occur even within a country as small as Luxembourg.

It almost makes you wonder if they had the right idea in medieval times, with each city minting its own currency.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #187 – 2014-08-24, 00:23:03

Right there string and I do trust myself that I am right too!

I will be in Edinburgh early September for a big Unionist rally. The last one we held a year or so back actually outnumbered the SNP one in more recent times. Maybe that is why they dropped the idea of having another?! Now they are boasting that they reached their target of a million contacts for "Yes." However that took them a crawling 3 years and is essentially their core vote which is 25% of the voting population. Lie anything else that proves little as turnout at polling stations is what counts. There are young people who as expected will vote yes but it will not be in what Salmond thinks as a support. I have well intimated here the reaction in universities, medical service, senior pupils in Secondary Schools and as said business. Now the Nationalists are trying to flannel on the oil income. Kind of odd that one as they have totally ignored the commission they got to investigate oil and it has reported a continuing decline!

Now here is another oddity string. Salmond in a recent interview said he would be happy to disband the SNP on a Yes victory. Kind of brilliant one that eh? Means their Brigadoon lot would then have to revert back to the former Westminster parties such as Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrats! Odd kind of thinking that one. The Nationalists keep harping on about being stuck with a Tory Government and he needs reminding that many got stuck with his lot who didn't vote for them! He sneers at the Tories yet they actually polled 410,000 at the last General Election in Scotland and their vote is more spread. So is he rubbishing hundreds of thousands of Scots? Add the Labour who had a larger vote and in 4th place the Liberal Democrats. Together they all dominate SNP votes.

Meantime my Union Flag flies from out the upstairs window. Will now order a flagpole for the back garden and my selection of flags are all ready. Union one, Imperial Russia, Confederate battle flag for the different commemoration dates. For now I continue my campaign, dishing out stickers, leafet groups and anything to support the Better Together slot with my English, Welsh and Ulster Unionists. Give in, me? Nae chance and I finish my stance by quoting Lord Carson n the old Irish Crisis 1914....NOT AN INCH!"

Proud to be Scots - proud to be British.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #188 – 2014-08-24, 00:55:42

RJHowie, I worry about you. Union flag, Imperial Russia and Confederate battle flags, eh?

You DO know that Imperial Russia ceased to exist for all practical purposes in 1917 or thereabouts, don't you? Died in a revolution, or so I'm told in history books.

The Confederacy didn't even fare that well, having died barely 5 years into what there was of its existence.

That's 2 losing causes there. Of course there is the occasional rumble of the South rising again, but the Confederacy seems to be a historic footnote.

In the next month, you're gonna be voting on whether the Union flag will still be the recognized flag of Scotland as well as the rest of the UK. The vote looks like it might be close either way as I see it right now. If it goes the other way, you'll have to figure out how to change your tune a little since railing at us ex-colonists wouldn't play so well when you become one of us.

It also would give you the problem of having three losing flags hanging outside your window instead of the two you already mentioned. It goes without saying that the Union flag will have to be changed somewhat in the event of Scottish Independence, since the Saltire will no longer be officially part of it.

Flags will be the least of it though. Setting up a new nation isn't as easy as it looks and being independent makes it harder since you now have to come up with your own version of all the stuff your parent nation used to supply. This is gonna be interesting to watch I think.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #189 – 2014-08-24, 21:59:14

Well now as someone who has always had a great interest in history you are talking to the right man dear Chicagoan.

Prior to the forst Revolution of 1917 no less a person than your own President was recorded as supporting the last Emperor in the relaxation of many things like a free press, extension of political parties and the gradual move to try and improve the life of the general population. Bet you didn't know that one, eh? Then in the second Revolution by the Communists what did we find? This led to a Civil War between the Whites and the Reds and Gt Britain, America and the Japanese were amongst allied troops sent there to back up the Whites. With the US hating Reds to the core it was a tad disgusting that behind the scenes the US was having secret meetings with the Communists on commerce, money, etc. All not know by their Allies. So when your Red pals took over law and justice ceased.

Indeed pre 1917 the Bar was independent of the State and people could not just be dealt with willy-nilly by the police. Warrants had tobe issued and even the much moaned at Political police (loosely known as the Secret Police) was a tiny organisation but they too couldn't just grab someone but had to get a warrant through th system then take ordinary police to arrest you. Time after time there were cases in the independent system that decided 2not guity" and released people. That didn't happen after your pals came in. Instead taken in the middle of the jight and shot.

As for the American Civil War that was not a neat and dusty as you would like to portray.

In the South there were still much of the old early colonial and traditions whereas in the North it was increasingly obvious due to thewide level of behind the scenes corruption that it was the business men who were in control. Slaves were brought in via Northern ports to be sold - aye great principles at work there from the majority of the country too -- eh again?! In the past, I have detailed that Lincoln was a iar and two-faced man. He was determined for all the public stuff that Negroes would not get what they wanted. in dinner parties and private meetings his real opinions came out didn't they? On the wider political scene the idea that States would want to leave a country that looked down it's nose at them was horrifying! You should have just let them go peacefully but that was never going to be an option. Not surprising then that such an army head as the Christian and decent man General Robert E. Lee should feel obliged to leave the US Army and take up with the South. Even though the had concerns there was a highly respected, decent and good man feeling the US was not doing things right. Oh, and on a lighter note with so many over the Mason-Dixon who had Scots decent it is not surprise that the CSA battle flag took a saltire based shape!

So marking the end of reason and the shameful aftermath is worth it and the way the South was treated by a nation that in itself was hypocritical. Remembering the fall of a a free press, political freedom and progress in pre-1917 Imperial Russia is worth it historically too. What is pleasing by the way is that ceremonial uniforms in the Russian Army, Ceremonial Cavalry are all Imperial again. The striped national flag was the one up to 1917. The emblems of State with the double-headed eagle and other Royal things is the Imperial Coat of Arms. So today's Russia after the thankful destruction of the Bolshies looks back at a time they remember fondly and proudly. Elections, political parties, the Orthodox back where it was emphasises such. Just a pity with your record it is a bit more concerning.

So my friend my national flag will go up in May for Her Majesty's Birthday Holiday, the 12th July for the Battle of the Boyne and my orange heritage. Will muse on grey when i mark Fort Sumpter and the greatness of Imperial Russia and the horrible execution of 5 youngsters along with their famil;y and servants by a load of scumbags that the US was gleefully doing business with behind the scenes.

Principles my dear boy, principles. The word has been spoiled over the pond!

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #190 – 2014-08-25, 04:39:25

For Mr. Howie:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3IJ05QntXQ[/video]

On another note, as Jax has noted, I too am paying quite a bit of attention to the currency debate, as the YES campaign, inexplicably, seems to have gained in popularity after Darling and Salmond's debate. How does one lose a debate, and gain popularity?

The Adam Smith Institute has issued a report called "Quids Up" that suggests using the Pound even without London's permission. Much like Panama uses our Dollar for their national currency. It's both brilliant and also naive though, in my opinion. Brilliant in the fact that those most damnable institutions called Central Banks are eliminated (PRAISE BE!) and also, there is no lender of last resort, so no bailouts (AGAIN, PRAISE BE!). I make no bones about it, I am of the Austrian school of thought in that regard, and that would be awesome. Yet, it's naive in that Scotland would be totally screwed in any number of circumstances and, as is currently the case, would be again subservient to the (r)UK and that poncy little twit from Eton, which would make redundant going independent. The report can be viewed here: http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/money-banking/an-independent-scotland-should-use-the-pound-without-permission-from-ruk/

I do look forward to seeing how this evening's debate went. Of great interest to me is immigration. London wishes that Scotland would agree to the same immigration terms that they have with Ireland. Salmond apparently has been voicing the wish for a more liberal immigration policy, as Scotland will need young people to pay for people like Mr. Howie's pension.

Finally, gods help us all, as Mr. Howie has now found out how to bolden the text on here.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #191 – 2014-08-25, 05:11:55

Here is part of a verse from the great Scottish poet, Major Burns.

"Wee, sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie".

It celebrates the poet's first sight of a haggis. When Scotland votes to separate from the U.K he will be charged with the task of writing their constitution.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #192 – 2014-08-25, 14:05:26

The first debate between that sleekit Alex Salmond and the former Chanchellor of the Exchquer, Alastair Darling was a resounding win for Darling and the NO Campaign. We will of course be going over the same stuff again on the BBC as STV did. Now Salmond is lying about the NHS as he cannot solve the currency issue. Salmond also wants more immigrants but that doesn't mean they will all be workers. Neither is immigration some wonderful addition to Scots either. As for London, I visted it once years ago when it was an English city but now pale faces are the minority as in Birmingham the second city and other places.

Now in pops tt92 with a usual American's ignorance of elswhere if they don't have an atlas. Robert Burns (bet he didn't know he had been made a Major without knowing it) and out national poet. May I inform you dear limited ex-colonist that Burns worked for the British Government as a Royal Customs Officer! Maybe if America was to play the mouse the world would be a much safer place.

Meanwhile I still amass the paper hankies for the Yes lot of snidies as they will need them the day after the referendum. Oh and you lot over there might learn something even if Scotland (unlikely) voted Yes. Here it would be peaceful you lot wrecked 13 States that weren't happy being sidelined.
Yours,
Loyal subject, proud to be Scots, proud to be British.

ps. No Surrender!

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #193 – 2014-08-25, 16:44:16

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 15:05:26

Alastair Darling was a resounding win for Darling and the NO Campaign

Really? What debate were you watching, he never answered a single question put to him.

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 15:05:26

We will of course be going over the same stuff again on the BBC as STV did.

Finally we agree on something.

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 15:05:26

Now Salmond is lying about the NHS

No he's not. We all know that the NHS is devolved in Scotland, but Westminster holds the purse strings, They are privatising chunks of the NHS in England which will mean less money for the NHS in Scotland. Just ask a Labour politician. Oh wait they say one thing in England and tell us the opposite here in Scotland. Now that's what you call lying. Stop believing what you read in The Daily Record or other unionist rag you read.

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 15:05:26

he cannot solve the currency issue

How many times does he have to say we will be using the pound, before it penetrates some thick skulls?

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 15:05:26

Salmond also wants more immigrants but that doesn't mean they will all be workers.

You're not expecting their children to work are you?

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 15:05:26

ps. No Surrender!

What a riddy.

It's the 21st century, do try to drag yourself into it.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #194 – 2014-08-25, 20:42:23

[glow=blue,2,300]More, More, More!!! [/glow]

[glow=green,2,300] Yayyyyyyy Luxor!![/glow]

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #195 – 2014-08-25, 21:37:13

I don't mind you playing the thicko Luxor but it is tedious!

Salmond tonight when questioned on the currency danced again rather than answer the question. He blethered about asking the Scottish people AFTER a Yes vote! He did in fairness do better than his first debate with Darling but you must watch foreign media because that first session was recorded as Salmond on the back foot. As for the National Health Service what do you not understand about straightforward English. The Scottish Government is responsible for spending the NHS matter here and the same SNP government HAS used the private sector although you choose to ignore this. I don't really car a proverbial monkey if the NHS uses any private service as we will not be charged for it as individuals. Another dancing act on that score.

And anyway in a separate Scotland wanting to be still linked to the Bank of England is in simple terms, absurd. An independent nation but having to work within what a foreign government next door decides are your rates. You do a nice dance there too. For to dismiss Darling completely is another absurdity. It is all pie in the sky with you lot. Do put your bagpipes down and note reality rather than the rather impulsive tendency just to ignore what is opposite to you or like Salmond who is a snidy, sleekit and devious man. How about explaining my points about Salmond lying about Scotland never getting a government it has voted for? I listed that since WW2 some 8 times the majority voted Labour and what do you know a Labour Government at Westminster. In the fifties twice Scotland voted Tory and there was a Tory Government. At the last General Election even the Tories whom he sneers at polled 410,000 votes in Scotland so if they are all traitors we have one Hell of a lot of them. Throw in the bigger Labour vote and the LibDems and tells you something.

Generally speaking it has been a peaceful campaign apart from broadband disgraces. When this was last raised here you chirped in that the Unionist side did it too. However this all started due to an onslaught from the nationalist side and they held the numbers game in that one. Not saying the SNP encouraged it but there are plenty of tartan nutjobs.

So nice to see you were provoked enough to come back but then it must be damn frustrating that you know you will not catch up. Think of the towns even where you had a slight majority of Councillors but the same Councils formed alliances to keep you out! Oh and here in Glasgow you were going to storm into the city Chambers and thought you were the wee boys when there was a split in the routine majority party. Many in my corner helped to keep you out.Oh dear, all those great announcements you were going to dominate Glasgow. Nae chance sonny. I will feel for your disappointment but hope you don't mind but i won't be losing any sleep over you. Now must plan my victory holiday break right after the Referendum.....

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #196 – 2014-08-25, 21:38:59

ps. You now have that fanatical rightist neo-con, Smiley on your side. How worse can it get for you Brigadoons?!

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #197 – 2014-08-26, 00:35:09

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 13:37:13

And anyway in a separate Scotland wanting to be still linked to the Bank of England is[,] in simple terms, absurd. An independent nation but having to work within what a foreign government next door decides are your rates […]

So, you do understand why the Euro is bound to fail?

(Cannae ye naught but merdere English?)

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #198 – 2014-08-26, 02:00:10

Quote from: Luxor on 2014-08-25, 16:44:16

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 15:05:26
Alastair Darling was a resounding win for Darling and the NO Campaign

Really? What debate were you watching, he never answered a single question put to him.

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 15:05:26
We will of course be going over the same stuff again on the BBC as STV did.

Finally we agree on something.

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 15:05:26
Now Salmond is lying about the NHS

No he's not. We all know that the NHS is devolved in Scotland, but Westminster holds the purse strings, They are privatising chunks of the NHS in England which will mean less money for the NHS in Scotland. Just ask a Labour politician. Oh wait they say one thing in England and tell us the opposite here in Scotland. Now that's what you call lying. Stop believing what you read in The Daily Record or other unionist rag you read.

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 15:05:26
he cannot solve the currency issue

How many times does he have to say we will be using the pound, before it penetrates some thick skulls?

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 15:05:26
Salmond also wants more immigrants but that doesn't mean they will all be workers.

You're not expecting their children to work are you?

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-25, 15:05:26
ps. No Surrender!

What a riddy. It's the 21st century, do try to drag yourself into it.

Why? This is the century I live in. What possible purpose could rj serve here? Let me stay in my century and he in his and never the twain need meet.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #199 – 2014-08-26, 10:08:10

I also watched the debate, all of it.

As far as I understand there was a poll afterwards and about 70% of the people said that Salmond had won it.

There was also another poll which showed that no-one had changed their mind as a result.

I know the arguments on both sides well enough by now so could gather roughly what they were talking about but there was so much over-talking that it was impossible at times to tell what was being said. Salmond was definitely the champion over-talker though.

Poll

Should Scotland be an independent country?