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General => DnD Central => Topic started by: SmileyFaze on 2014-04-21, 04:44:53

Title: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-04-21, 04:44:53
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/DemsVsGOP.gif)



Yes RJ  ......   it's that time again!

So ............

Who will be the Democrat Candidates?

Who will be the Republican Candidates?

Will there be a strong Independant Candidate?  And if so, who will they syphon votes from --- Dems or GOP?

Who will win their respective Priamries?   Why.

Which Party goes into the Election as the Underdog?  Why.

Will the Democrat Party seek the endorsement & active campaigning of President Obama for their candidate? Why?

What do you think will be the most important issues of the 2016 Presidential Election?  Why?

Of those issues, which issue (singular -- one) will dominate the candidates agendas?

Who do you think will win the Presidential Election?  How & Why?

Will the Republicans take the Senate?  Why?

Will the Democrats take the House?  Why?

A Poll will be added after all the Conventions have been completed.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-04-21, 05:25:08
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMgRrXei.jpg&hash=8cdeba475dc2b1f710f6d15d3227c61d" rel="cached" data-hash="8cdeba475dc2b1f710f6d15d3227c61d" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/MgRrXei.jpg)


(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fjnk7W3l.jpg&hash=cb9207c7fc73d238f74ba525f7ef8f7a" rel="cached" data-hash="cb9207c7fc73d238f74ba525f7ef8f7a" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/jnk7W3l.jpg)






Contact me via PM if you wish any bumper sticker made for your candidate --  all bumper stickers are expressly for fun & your personal use only.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-04-21, 07:26:22
I'd rather vote for Putin.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-HUcc2i0qMgU%2FToNhNFAzB_I%2FAAAAAAAAGm8%2FtFDCyW0EW5Q%2Fs320%2FCaricature%252BPoutine.jpg&hash=f0ed7f297f4a6699bc8ae42bb2f0048c" rel="cached" data-hash="f0ed7f297f4a6699bc8ae42bb2f0048c" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HUcc2i0qMgU/ToNhNFAzB_I/AAAAAAAAGm8/tFDCyW0EW5Q/s320/Caricature%2BPoutine.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-04-21, 07:49:27
On the Democrat side my best guess is Hillary.

As for the Republicans, there are too many possibilities for me to give a reasonable guess.

Jeb Bush? Chris Christie?  Rand Paul? Certainly not the Tea Party whore Ted Cruz. You're a Republican. Whom do you like?
==========================
As an almost total aside, let's forget the rules and consider that person we'd most like to see as the president. I'd go with the present tabloid darling, Princess Kate, the Duchess of Cambridge. Where my wife and I shop for groceries, the junk magazines are parked in the checkout lane, and almost every women's magazine features Kate in some form. "Kate's new shoes," "Kate's favorite handbag," "Kate's new baby!" "Kate flies a kite!"

I don't know what her foreign policy priorities are, but I'd vote for her in a minute because I love her hats!
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Y4WUzmwcfyQ%2FTbd_YzIMuuI%2FAAAAAAAAAfs%2F0eezqgjQGQM%2Fs1600%2Fhair.jpg&hash=054247937b72b4f69a73ee853bbd796c" rel="cached" data-hash="054247937b72b4f69a73ee853bbd796c" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Y4WUzmwcfyQ/Tbd_YzIMuuI/AAAAAAAAAfs/0eezqgjQGQM/s1600/hair.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: tt92 on 2014-04-21, 09:00:51
Kate, husband, and little George are currently touring Oz and charming everyone.
One thing is obvious, the little guy is going to inherit a great set of teeth.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-04-21, 11:16:56
Thanks, sir. Perhaps we should have a separate thread for the whereabouts, accouterments, teeth and hair of the Princess.

I suggest Princess Kate Unveiled!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-04-22, 09:29:43
This just days ago.
Quote
The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge landed in New Zealand early Monday local time for a three-week tour of New Zealand and Australia. It's the first royal tour for Prince George.

Prince George is third in line to the British throne, but his parents want to be the picture of a modern family. So William and Kate are taking their 8-month-old son on a business trip.


Details here....
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/babys-first-tour-prince-george-travels-down-under-with-william-and-kate/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/babys-first-tour-prince-george-travels-down-under-with-william-and-kate/)

And here...
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGHNs0c667s[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-04-22, 11:52:36
If nominated, I will run for the border.

If elected, I will fight extradition.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-04-22, 19:05:19
If you're elected, I'll be a roommate with Snowden.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2014-04-22, 22:23:48
Candidates for the parties:

Democrat:

1. Hillary (aka Billary) Clinton

2. Elizabeth Warren



Republican:

1. Mike Huckabee

2. Rand Paul


Libertarian:

1. Gary Johnson



Socialist Party of America:

1. Jimbro
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-04-23, 07:43:38

Socialist Party of America:

1. Jimbro
:o
=====================================
Something struck me when I saw your response...the fact that the land of the free and home of the brave has never had a female head of state. The following countries have had at least one.
* Argentina
* Australia
* Bahrain
* Bangladesh
* Barbados
* Belize
* Bolivia
* Brazil
* Burundi
* Canada
* Central African Republic
* Chile
* Denmark
* Dominica
* Equatorial Guinea
* Finland
* France
* Germany
* Grenada
* Guyana
* Haiti
* Iceland
* India
* Indonesia
* Ireland
* Israel
* Latvia
* Liberia
* Lithuania
* Malawi
* Mauritius
* Netherlands
* New Zealand
* Nicaragua
* Norway
* Pakistan
* Panama
* Philippines
* Poland
* Portugal
* San Marino
* Serbia
* Sri Lanka
* Swaziland
* Switzerland
* Thailand
* Turkey
* Ukraine
* United Kingdom

What's wrong with that picture?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Macallan on 2014-04-23, 07:53:42

Socialist Party of America:

1. Jimbro

I wonder if Coon is running again this time around :right:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-04-23, 08:20:13
Yes...in circles.  :D
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: krake on 2014-04-23, 08:58:13

Something struck me when I saw your response...the fact that the land of the free and home of the brave has never had a female head of state.

Indeed :sherlock:

She has my vote  8)

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-KS92au0CTQc%2FTepFajW_c1I%2FAAAAAAAABNM%2FxnMxiRKCDME%2Fs1600%2FSarah-Palin-Nude-Maxim-Cover-Photograph.jpg&hash=917911c883806624a0be0ae270972a02" rel="cached" data-hash="917911c883806624a0be0ae270972a02" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KS92au0CTQc/TepFajW_c1I/AAAAAAAABNM/xnMxiRKCDME/s1600/Sarah-Palin-Nude-Maxim-Cover-Photograph.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-04-23, 09:57:07
 Cool!..
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-04-25, 18:38:11
I see Senator Ron Paul's son is being touted as a candidate. As for that brain dead woman from Alaska, I am not sure which she needs to look after in that picture the most.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-04-25, 20:02:12
The following countries have had at least one.

....
Portugal

Nope.
The "head of State" is the president of the republic, we had a woman as prime minister, never as a president.
Besides being a woman she was also a lunatic but since she's already dead I will not criticize her.

If you refer to monarchy, here we always had a decent monarchy, Queens don't rule shit.

As for the next American elections, after a black Nobel prize, the competition must be between a gay and a housewife. Both will have a Nobel prize of course. Unless it goes for Putin... that would be funny but not less surprising than to Obama.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Macallan on 2014-04-26, 14:49:10

... that brain dead woman from Alaska ...

Sarah Palin & Michelle Malkin vs. Elizabeth Warren and Wendy Davis? :right:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-04-27, 00:23:45
I do have to groan that we will get brained with "that time again." All the ballyhoo and those ridiculous political conventions that are pointless. And as standard practice the champion front runners will give tear jerking speeches about a new country and new horizon et al and the audience will be almost tearful at the dumb rhetoric. What a system that just repeats the same old stuff and everyone forgets they hear it each time.

I watched an interview with Senator Ron Paul on television and was struck by his directness, honesty and different stance. He is sick to death of the constant need for wars and the militarism overburden. When he commented that "we should stop interfering everywhere else I nearly shouted "hooray." (!). It is a shame that a country with so many decent people in it are stuck with a system that no longer works and is controlled by corporates not the people they elect.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: tt92 on 2014-04-27, 00:34:47

. What a system that just repeats the same old stuff and everyone forgets they hear it each time.

.

Quite different from every other nation anywhere else on earth.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-04-27, 07:36:23


What a system that just repeats the same old stuff and everyone forgets they hear it each time.

Quite different from every other nation anywhere else on earth.

And certain posters who endlessly repeat themselves about corporate control, etc.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-04-27, 18:01:17
And it is corporate control whether you like it or not. Both the main parties are in their pockets and fine you know it! Other countries that are probably wider based have proper political party conferences and individuals speaking whereas over there it is all childish ballyhoo. If you were being frustratingly honest you would probably with a sigh accept that all you can do is go for the lesser of two evils. Other political corners don't get a look in and with so many millionaires on the Hill only proves my point. And on the matter of repeating I will do so again and remind you of President Eisenhower who warned the USA to be watchful of the rise of the corporates and he was a Republican! That was all those years ago.

Who is elected over there is important unfortunately as you rule the world and heaven help anyone who doesn't like the imperialism. In a system people and political leaders can be with a gap and when you consider the tens of thousands of lobby merchants on the Hill tells you something too.   I know you do not feel inclined to the glbal aspect of your nation but it is continually difficult for appraisal when it dabbles so much everywhere on some pretext of freedoms or some would-be principle. What normally follows is an invasion of big business (Afghanistan mess is the latest of a long line). I like Americans in general but the sysetm is something else.

Think after some appraising will not do a third visit but go for the day to Edinburgh to see the brand new tramwasy system along Princess Street...... :D
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-05-02, 12:18:16
...as you rule the world and heaven...
Quite the news, huh?
The latest photo of Jim: :angel: .
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-05-02, 23:43:07
You are lucky to be so far away from him as he isn't into hero worship.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-05-03, 14:14:52

And it is corporate control whether you like it or not.


I grant the possibility, even the likelihood. What I'd like to know is what the outcome is. How does it affect my daily life? How is corporate power in the US different from corporate power in the UK?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/04/corporate-britain-corrupt-lobbying-revolving-door (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/04/corporate-britain-corrupt-lobbying-revolving-door)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Banned Member [2] on 2014-05-03, 15:31:09
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/04/corporate-britain-corrupt-lobbying-revolving-door (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/04/corporate-britain-corrupt-lobbying-revolving-door)

1. What does "revolving door" mean/refer to in the context?
2. What is the "enforcer"?
Quote
...grinned Jack Cunningham, Tony Blair's former "enforcer".
?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-05-03, 16:42:55
1. What does "revolving door" mean/refer to in the context?
2. What is the "enforcer"?

The article (or a dictionary) might provide hints.

Quote
The cabinet secretary, Jeremy Heywood, is the living embodiment of the revolving door, having moved effortlessly from the Treasury to Blair's office to the investment bank Morgan Stanley and back to work for Cameron.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-05-04, 02:32:42
Doesn't matter which of the 2 money giant political machines win Wall Street will still control things there will be hundreds of military bases across the world no matter the increasing debt the poor will still be in tens of millions and the loyalty of the people misused by those who are the money barons. It has been a gradual process getting to this but at one time things were different. If ever a country and it's lyalty has been done in this is a great example. Sad.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-05-04, 06:25:32
Doesn't matter which of the 2 money giant political machines win Wall Street will still control things..........


Nope, it'll be up to people like my buddy Erik Prince, & the PMC's ........  my kinda guys. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/grin.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/guns4.gif)

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE17D8C6O4A[/VIDEO]


The above is based on a 'game', but don't kid yourselves ... in reality it's a deadly serious attitude adjustment dealing out all the cards that will tip the balance of power.......

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fg6wWcf1.jpg&hash=eff84655840d7b09b6f953c39c691e5d" rel="cached" data-hash="eff84655840d7b09b6f953c39c691e5d" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/g6wWcf1.jpg)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/Watching%20You.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-05-04, 10:03:52
It seems that RJHowie has run out of commas again. Here we are:
Code: [Select]
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-05-04, 19:07:54
JoshL you really do have a mawkish and rather kindergarten idea of America to be brutally frank.  You get so carried away with your daft love affair whilst ignoring the factual things that challenge your silliness. If you really looked at the political system it did at one time work to an extent but more and more over there are realising there is something flawed andnot right going on. So do try and be adult. There are things to commend the place on but as it tries to dominate the world you should take the dark glasses off.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: tt92 on 2014-05-04, 19:57:25
Josh and rj teaching us all about America.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-05-04, 20:33:45

Josh and rj teaching us all about America.

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/big%20laugh%20007.gif)      (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lolfun.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-05-06, 18:44:49

Josh and rj teaching us all about America.
Me learning.:rolleyes:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-05-07, 17:31:43
No-one can effectively teach about the ex-colonies as there is such a proportion of nutjobs and a massive head shrinker market to keep them happy. Josh the last thing I would recommend for anyone is to admire or want to copy what passes for a political system over there. Many decent people of course but they have had their patriotism stolen by the 2 big party machines that keep others out the frame and hardly an icon of democracy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Banned Member [2] on 2014-05-08, 10:23:16
Josh the last
I hope so.
:king:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: string on 2014-05-08, 15:31:20
2016 drama: Hillary Clinton weighs in on gun control as Lewinsky emerges (http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/17033183-2016-drama-hillary-clinton-weighs-in-on-gun-control-as-lewinsky-emerges)

Drama is in the eye of the beholder I suppose, but I wonder how this one will play out.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-05-08, 16:34:00
I suppose we do have one thing to be thankful for. The Rahmfather so far is content to rule Chicago and shows no presidential leanings, as far as we know. Not that I think he could win, by the end of the second Obama term I fancy we as a nation may be fed up with democrats from Chicago.

Think about it for a minute--- then do everything in your power to make sure it never happens: The Rahmulan Empire, stretching from sea to shining sea. That should keep you up at night, as good as any horror movie.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-05-08, 20:59:16
Can I vote? :)
Who are the candidates?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-05-08, 22:43:44
Look mjsmsprt40 don't send another to the White House or you will get a bad name.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-05-10, 08:39:11
Think about it for a minute--- then do everything in your power to make sure it never happens: The Rahmulan Empire, stretching from sea to shining sea. That should keep you up at night, as good as any horror movie.

Think about it for more than a minute and you'll come to the conclusion that whoever occupies the office will introduce bad news somewhere in the four years of his tenancy. A part of the bad news syndrome comes from the need of the media moguls to have something to comment on. There's a tendency to ascribe every outrageous thing that happens during president's tenure to that president. It matters not that the president may have not had a thing to do with the event. The fact that he's in office when the economy tanked, storms ravaged the nation and influenza killed thousands is enough.

You need proof?
Quote
NEW CASTLE, N.H. (AP) — Reaffirming his national political ambitions, Sen. Marco Rubio accused Democrats on Friday of threatening the American dream as he campaigned across New Hampshire, appearing in the first-in-the-nation presidential primary state for the first time in 18 months.


Damned Democrats!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-05-11, 17:59:20
Although the Tea Party lot are not so much in the news these days is it not a thought that they have still however been an influence on the Republican Party lot and shifted them even more to the right?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2014-05-27, 02:34:09

Although the Tea Party lot are not so much in the news these days is it not a thought that they have still however been an influence on the Republican Party lot and shifted them even more to the right?

The last stand of the Tea People will be in my home state next Tuesday.

You have Thad Cochran (R) who has been in the Senate since 1978, following James Eastland's retirement (he had been in office for over 40 years). He is a Senior Repub, with a great deal of influence and pull in the Senate. With MS being a welfare state to survive, he has brought in a great deal of money for the state.

On the other hands, you have The Great Waffler of Our Time, Chris McDaniel (T). While he shares a great many views that I do on certain issues, apparently it is lost on him that should this state cease to depend on federal dole money from other states (we receive $2.45 for every $1 we put in) that we would fold within 5-7 days, which would cause a panic and utter anarchy here. He does however have a few good points, to be fair to him.

Thad has stated this will be his last go-round, if re-elected. He is 78 years old. A McDaniel supporter who hosted a blog in full support of CM was recently arrested for taking pictures of Mr. Cochran's wife, who has to stay at a nursing home owing to a terrible case of dementia. I forget the charge, but it was something along the lines of "abuse of an invalid elder" or something.


Should McDaniel fail, the Tea People will have lost all relevance on the national stage. They retain some degree of pull in specific local politics, and that should stay, but nationally, the appear to be set to bow out should CM lose the primary.

On the other side of the aisle and in the actual election, Travis Childers (D) who represented my district from 2008-2011 before the state Repubs in charge gerrymandered the districts once again, will be running against whomever wins the afore-mentioned Conservative race as the Democratic challenger. He has been plagued by allegations that he is too liberal, which in this state is the equivalent to Satan worship. 

One wonders if the Civil War the two Conservatives have had for months now will affect the (D) versus (R) or (T) race? Certainly will be interesting regardless.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Sparta on 2014-05-27, 15:36:04
how is exactly the Shape of republic of 'Merica ?

is   if the President is republican , the congress is democrat only -- vice versa .

or whoever the president , the Congress is republican +  Democrat ?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2014-05-27, 19:45:25

how is exactly the Shape of republic of 'Merica ?

is   if the President is republican , the congress is democrat only -- vice versa .

or whoever the president , the Congress is republican +  Democrat ?

1. Teetering on financial disaster, much like Europe and China, but on a more massive scale. The student loan bubble is due to burst at any time ($1.4 trillion and counting), the housing market is shite, because no one my age has the cash to buy a house, because many are paying off said student loans, and the economy is at a flatline.

2. The President and Congress are elected, so it's whatever we as a whole want. Last go 'round we wanted a Dem as a President, and a Democratic Senate, with a Repub House. Divided gov't at it's finest. I expect it to continue for some time, though the players and their parties will most likely change at some point. One could see Billary Clinton being elected President (D) with a (R) Congress.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-05-27, 19:53:36
A rather unfortunate political system has gradually taken hold which is doing little for the country the millions suffering, etc. If less was spent marching the globe more Americans could get more satisfaction instead of their loaylty being used or misused. The two parties have sewn up the system to the point of ludicracy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Sparta on 2014-05-28, 09:01:41
 de democratisch idee of republic 'merica seems Well-played .

btw , if the President ,  representatives , and senators is elected .

then Who funds their campaign ?

they use their own money , the  partij , or the Government give $$$ to the partij for campaign ?

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-05-28, 11:00:05
they use their own money , the  partij , or the Government give $$$ to the partij for campaign ?

The parties use their own money; that is, contributions by private individuals and corporations.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Sparta on 2014-05-28, 11:49:59
so ..

generally speaking , politics is for the rich .

and for   the People  is a must to pay their salaries ?






(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi60.tinypic.com%2F2wgrhut.jpg&hash=6aa804af31f0d8c82e977bdc9c4f1459" rel="cached" data-hash="6aa804af31f0d8c82e977bdc9c4f1459" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i60.tinypic.com/2wgrhut.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-05-29, 01:37:38
You actually have a point there Sparta and the vast amounts stuffed in by corporates is phenomenal. Over the deacdes the rich at the top were a wider contribute to tax than now. There will always be differences between countries but here 20% of tax income is from the richer and will be interesting to know what it is in the ex-colonies.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-05-29, 06:21:55
2016? Easy enough. The GOP candidates will ruthlessly attack each other in primaries to prove who's furthest to the Right (and thus more alienated from the mainstream voter.) Clinton will crush the last man standing under her heel like a cockroach in the general election.

Quote from: The Dawg
2. The President and Congress are elected, so it's whatever we as a whole want. Last go 'round we wanted a Dem as a President, and a Democratic Senate, with a Repub House. Divided gov't at it's finest. I expect it to continue for some time, though the players and their parties will most likely change at some point. One could see Billary Clinton being elected President (D) with a (R) Congress. 
As noted above, you're correct about Billary. But  both Houses being Republican? I'm not convinced. Republicans are already crowing about this year's election that hasn't happened yet, but there are a couple caveats 1) those seats are those the GOP can be expected to win anyway (the crowers evidently didn't read Nate Silver's full report...) 2) Never underestimate the GOP's predication for self destruction and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.* . I'm not making that prediction, just saying it that it's not outside the realm of possibility, especially given that Red states such as Virginia and Florida have been turning Blue or Purple and I dare say Nevada itself flipped Red to Blue while bypassing the Purple stage. No matter what happens in 2014, the GOP is dying a long and painful death as a true national party unless it changes its ways.

*For instance, Reid isn't popular and should have lost, but you should have seen Sharon Angle's ads. She made herself look more like a retard more than Reid and the liberal media could have ever hoped to. She's not alone among GOP candidates for doing this (remember "I'm not a witch..." ) and Santorum acting more like he was running for Pope then President, sealing his fate even in the looney GOP primary.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2014-05-29, 20:40:28

2016? Easy enough. The GOP candidates will ruthlessly attack each other in primaries to prove who's furthest to the Right (and thus more alienated from the mainstream voter.) Clinton will crush the last man standing under her heel like a cockroach in the general election.

Quote from: The Dawg
2. The President and Congress are elected, so it's whatever we as a whole want. Last go 'round we wanted a Dem as a President, and a Democratic Senate, with a Repub House. Divided gov't at it's finest. I expect it to continue for some time, though the players and their parties will most likely change at some point. One could see Billary Clinton being elected President (D) with a (R) Congress. 
As noted above, you're correct about Billary. But  both Houses being Republican? I'm not convinced. Republicans are already crowing about this year's election that hasn't happened yet, but there are a couple caveats 1) those seats are those the GOP can be expected to win anyway (the crowers evidently didn't read Nate Silver's full report...) 2) Never underestimate the GOP's predication for self destruction and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.* . I'm not making that prediction, just saying it that it's not outside the realm of possibility, especially given that Red states such as Virginia and Florida have been turning Blue or Purple and I dare say Nevada itself flipped Red to Blue while bypassing the Purple stage. No matter what happens in 2014, the GOP is dying a long and painful death as a true national party unless it changes its ways.

*For instance, Reid isn't popular and should have lost, but you should have seen Sharon Angle's ads. She made herself look more like a retard more than Reid and the liberal media could have ever hoped to. She's not alone among GOP candidates for doing this (remember "I'm not a witch..." ) and Santorum acting more like he was running for Pope then President, sealing his fate even in the looney GOP primary.

1. I'm not fully convinced either, just posted that for our friend from wherever he/she is from. :cheers:  The American Voter can sometimes be a strange creature.

2. Quite true that, about the Repubs snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

3. Interestingly enough, and I might be dead wrong, I think the Childers v. Cochran/McDaniels Senate race could be a toss-up. Yes, I said that. :left:  .......in the solidly Red state of Mississippi. Some of the older people I know, all of whom consistently vote, are thoroughly appalled by the Cochran/McDaniels savagery on the news, in the paper, on the radio, internet, etc. Never underestimate older people. @Jaybro.   :right:

4. In any case, owing to gerrymandering, I do feel confident in predicting that the HoR will remain Repub, though I expect Boehner to be given the pink slip. 

5. Good to see you posting again as well, 'Coon!  :cheers:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-05-30, 02:17:19
There are tens of millions over in the ex-colonies to whom neither of the 2 main parties are much use to them. What is it now, 40 plus million on food stamps. I would also guess the reason why many young Americans join youtr military is to get access to health and dental care rather than anything else. This all shows there is something deeply flawed in the system. In addition to that when I listened to that yak Obama telling army officer cadets how the world neds America to be in charge you could almost laugh at the stupidity, nonsense and arrogance. He thinks like all Presidents that they have to interfere and bless the world with the country's wonderful record on freedom, justice and freedom. Yeah we know how hypocritical that lot of stuff is. The country should in fact be spending more time helping tens of millions in it's borders, stop wanting to control the world and stop taking on anyone that doesn't agree with it. Trillions in debt and up to it;s ears in owing to Red China of all places! The world would have more respect for the nation if it stopped trying to give the impression it is Moses with the tablets. Even if a State wanted to secede they cannot?  Constant bickering over the constitution, the individual rights of people being trampled. Considering th greater majority of both Houses on the Hill are greatly rich small wonder there are so many poor people in America. The rich mostly only care for themselvesand their incomes have swelled massively while the ordinary bloke sees a different account.

Mostly nice people over there but an increasingly hotch-potch political system that needs drastic overhaul as well as less string pulling by the money barons.  You need a broader system and a great overhaul. There are many things that can be said to be fine but the political system is a shambles sadly. Tell you what. I will send over Alex Salmond to the Hill as he is at home with liars.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: ensbb3 on 2014-05-30, 04:10:38
Mostly nice people over there but an increasingly hotch-potch political system that needs drastic overhaul as well as less string pulling by the money barons.  You need a broader system and a great overhaul. There are many things that can be said to be fine but the political system is a shambles sadly.


An argument older than us both. Predates Pax Americana. The system has the ability to correct. A pessimistic view you have for sure. I doubt any system is free of the likes. Perhaps only that you're blind to the illusion at your own doorstep.  
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Sparta on 2014-05-30, 09:38:00


let's try  to remove the politicians , the events , and selling partij label stuffs. 

    
i guess every country is almost same ,

the People pay the government salary ( in Taxes ) , so the government have $$$ to  Govern that country .

Afaik , unlike monarchy style where there are monarch and Government .

Republic - Democracy eliminated the Monarch , and just have the Government .

in theory seems promising ..

it will save some $$$ wasted to feed the Monarch .

then how about in real ?
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the election is just something like , Employee's recruitment per 5 year .

while you and the People of 'Merica is their boss .

since you are the one that  pay their salaries .

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Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-05-30, 10:15:52
Quote from: Dawg
3. Interestingly enough, and I might be dead wrong, I think the Childers v. Cochran/McDaniels Senate race could be a toss-up. Yes, I said that. :left:  .......in the solidly Red state of Mississippi. Some of the older people I know, all of whom consistently vote, are thoroughly appalled by the Cochran/McDaniels savagery on the news, in the paper, on the radio, internet, etc. Never underestimate older people
Yup. The Repubs are too nasty to each other for the good of the party. I still say the Republican Primary of 2008 could have brought us Obama. Anybody that stood a chance against him was savagely labeled a "Rino" and knocked out the race, including Romney v. 2008, so the GOP ended with an old man that didn't have the energy for it and the ditz from hell.

The dinosaurs where already in gradual decline do to natural climate change before the meteor hit. Will 2016 be the GOP's meteor? The political climate is changing and it will take but one catastrophic election be their extinction. It happened to their Whig predecessors.  
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: Sparta on 2014-05-30, 14:03:19
btw sang ,

is - lesser of two evils ,  valid and legitimate  if applied in election ?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-05-30, 23:11:22
No, you are being too relaxed ensbb3.

I say this because decades ago the 1% was not always factual and was in a two figure percentage. As their salaries have massively increased the amount of the average the same average people have seen their wages crawl. The fewere at the top the more control. Every Presidential Election over there we see all that ballyhoo Conference stuff. It isn't even a party conference but a jamboree. Many moons ago I previously said the 2 parties over there practiced a lessr of two evils matter but not now. Indeed the Democrats gave the Republicans a run for their money from corporates. When you also realise the vast numbers of corporate middle men floating around the Hill that says much too. At the same time the number of American poor has gradually risen. Some 40 million poor living on stamps. Millions frightened to go to doctors, rights trampled on using defence and security as daft excuses. Stupid money spent on military budgets on false premises and arrogance, What the world does outside of the USA borders is their business.

Other quite competent nations have more than 2 parties in their parliaments and please do not start quoting Italy or the daft ones.  Presidents come in with great stirring speeches about new directions, hope and all that. Everyone goes nearly tear struck then it all happens over again and again. Even allowing for different traditions their is an almost childish streak running through the place when it comes to political poting. With so much to do inside the country the politicians bodyswerve and want to rule the world even if they cripple the place financially. There are millions of decent and reasonable peole in America and I met many of them on two visits and one in particular whom I still have a high regard for and he is utterly frustrated at the political show. The decent have had their loyalty and hope used by the money barons for their own damn ends and still getting away with it because the big 2 parties have carved things up to make it difficult to get a place. For those who live elsewhere in a proper wider parliamentary system it is a sigh to look at what has happened to the US system. It is NOT functioning for the people or the will of them or anything like it. Voting for the big two is now a waste of time walking to a polling station and what the nation needs is a revolution. Obama has turned out no better than the one before him that the would-be intellectuals snuffed at. He has lied and done more damage than GW did . What may have worked at one time has been stolen and the dispossessed  are increasing.

Any change will not be soon as there is a deep rooted matter to challenge and eradicate then all those decent people may value more what their constitution promised but has been stolen from them.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: tt92 on 2014-05-30, 23:54:37

btw sang ,

is - lesser of two evils ,  valid and legitimate  if applied in election ?

Universally.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-11-08, 20:57:36
What is your take on the New Look Congress, why did the elections turn out the way they did, & what do you see as the next move from both Obama & the demonrats, & from the other guys (everyone else)?



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Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-11-09, 00:05:14
Lester A. Tweevls for President, Batson D. Belfry for Vice President. What can go wrong?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-11-11, 07:09:08
Well, I was going to post this elsewhere, but decided on here because I think it will affect the 2016 Election in some way.

It's an obvious admission how much the democrat Party holds American's in complete contempt.

They now openly admit ... plainly ... that they thought the American People were so stupid, that for their own good, they needed to be lied to, in order to get ObamaCare passed.

From the President all the way down the line, members of the Administration now admit -- actually they brag -- that they needed to lie to the American people, deceive them for their own good, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to pass Obamacare -- which, in retrospect, was perfectly OK, & made perfect sense ------- to the Administration.


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuaJanYZLVQ[/VIDEO]



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Meet Jonathan Gruber, a professor at MIT and an architect of Obamacare.


Quote from:      TOWNHALL Magazine   http://bit.ly/1EnPTq9    

During a panel event last year about how the legislation passed, turning over a sixth of the U.S. economy to the government, Gruber admitted that [glow=black,2,300]the Obama administration went through "tortuous" measures to keep the facts about the legislation from the American people,[/glow] including covering up the redistribution of wealth from the healthy to the sick in the legislation that Obamacare is in fact a tax.

The video of his comments just recently surfaced ahead of the second open enrollment period for Obamacare at Healthcare.gov.

"You can't do it political, you just literally cannot do it. Transparent financing and also transparent spending. I mean, this bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes the bill dies. Okay? So it’s written to do that," Gruber said. "In terms of risk rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in, you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed. Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical to get for the thing to pass .............. "     CONTINUED HERE (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/11/10/obamacare-architect-yeah-we-lied-to-the-stupid-american-people-n1916605)








Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2014-11-11, 08:27:31
the most dangerous liar are those that think speak the truth .

IMHO just speak about axioms
since the truth can be obtained by collecting Axioms .
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2014-11-11, 13:29:32
That 'admission' reads to me as an observation that it is impossible to to pass legislation through House and Senate that is sane, simple, and sensible. In principle the legislature should improve proposed new laws in the process, practice may be much more horrible.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-11, 16:22:23
That 'admission' reads to me as an observation that it is impossible to to pass legislation through House and Senate that is sane, simple, and sensible. In principle the legislature should improve proposed new laws in the process, practice may be much more horrible.

Stunning admission that insurance works the way it always has. While you're healthy you pay, when you're sick you get the money. Just because you're healthy today doesn't mean you won't be dying tomorrow from a car accident, a previously undetected heart condition, you contract a deadly disease, etc. The real problem with that clip is that Megyn Kelly is not a stupid person. She knows how insurance works, but is pretending to all upset upset by this. Who's lying now? Maybe Fox viewers really are so stupid they don't know that money taken from their paycheck for insurance (with Obamacare or pre-Obamacare) is actually going to pay for somebody else's treatment, until it's their turn to be in the hospital? The insurance premiums go in the companies revenue for it's profit or to be paid on a claim and the business's other expenses. It has never been like the money just goes into your account only to be paid to you.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-11, 20:22:23
Since when has insurance been mandatory, Sang? Oh, wait... I can remember many instances. I'm sure you can too. But medical insurance hadn't become so (in the United States) until Obamacare...
What does the government do when coercion fails?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-11-11, 22:27:25
Americans too stupid for truth, says some Gruber guy. Is he American?
I suppose so... Europeans are a little bit more diplomat.

:lol:
Only at DnD one can find such gems.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-12, 03:43:08
It's no secret that i have little regard for what passes as a political system in the ex-colonies. The 2 main parties that have the thing carved up do not have party conferences like any normal country and instead have children style rallies that are as much use as trying to get me to live in the country. It is money that controls it and there is no limit on spending and some of the tv ads you see are not only intelligence insulting but disgraceful. but there is a kind of elementary attitude over there instead of being adult. With an army of corporate people with agents on the hill anything goes. It is a rich man club and it is no surprise that the recent election got a turnout of only around 37%. Great advert for a supposedly democratic country (giggle!).

The Republicans for a change were very adapt at trying to contain big mouther idiots and went to get their vote out whilst the Democrats struggled due to the way things are. Indeed in polls the vast majority who participate indicate a very low regard and respect for their barons on the 'Hill.  It is not surprising that the intelligent people are fed up with the system and way things are run. Every time there is a Presidential race the same guff comes out of a new vision for America and a new way of doing things. Doesn't matter what the label is both do the same. The end result is that nothing encouraging happens and unlike yesteryear when the country may well have had some inspirations and a more obvious future this is no longer the case. People then forget that guff and when the next race comes along out comes the same rubbish. Talk about ground hog day. You can't but feel sorry for the bright citizenry. The country spends far too much on the military and not enough on  it's own people. The increasing indifference to the electorate is compounded by the level of debt along with the equally high level of poverty and wages stagnating whilst the money barons increase their gap.

Time to have another war to distract the population but even that is wearing thin nowadays! So the Republicans were clever this time for a change but until the Obama farce runs out there will be a dead in the water matter between the Reps and White House. Doesn't matter who wins the next Presidential because for tens of millions of Americans they will still be suffering.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-13, 05:15:37
Since when has insurance been mandatory, Sang? Oh, wait... I can remember many instances. I'm sure you can too. But medical insurance hadn't become so (in the United States) until Obamacare...

The ACA's legality was already decided by the SCOTUS. Oh, you wanted me to answer directly in order to take control of the conversation, even though it should have simply been a rhetorical one, huh? What we're discussing is this "admission." All he admitted to was already known by the commonsense having community. You sign up for insurance either through the portal or through your job or just contact the insurance company directly. After that insurance works the same way it always has. The irony is that Fox is treating their viewers like idiots. That guy talks about the comic book as if that was the only way the law presented to the American people.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-13, 06:08:04
The [Americans aren't as poor or as ignorant as us True Scotsmen, so they're deficient!]

RJ, you're a card! A joker, of course; but that's still a card, isn't it? The "bright citizenry" is on your side! They'd prefer socialism over here, too…

All he admitted to was already known by the commonsense having community.
No: He admitted that "the powers that be" back then decided that the American electorate was too stupid to understand the great gift that the PPACA legislation was offering them; so, they couldn't be told the details! (And, of course, the bill needed to be passed — before we could find out what was in it!)
How is my version of his thrice-repeated comment wrong?

Let me put it another way, using your lingo: The not-having community is supposed to feel empowered, by being made more numerous; thereby better positioned to secure political prowess?
Why not just say ¡Viva la Revolución!…? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-13, 08:21:10
Rewatch around 4:50. Watch around 5:30 Megyn is getting upset about the what's the very nature of health insurance. She's full on pissed off about by 6:00. This what I find so astounding about the video. You pass a law saying people need to have insurance. Let's switch it to car insurance for a second. I believe all state require car insurance. So you pay your premium and it simply becomes part of the company's revenue. The SCOTUS did rule that the the penalty for not having insurance is a tax, so that part of selling it to the people was not correct. That much is obvious. I'm just having trouble stopping shaking my head over the umbrage over insurance being the same way it always has (in that particular aspect) as it always has.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-13, 09:04:18
I believe all state require car insurance
You believe a lot of things that aren't true… Your point needs other argument.
In particular: Why does the federal government get to tell people to buy medical insurance?

I can understand why states require auto insurance; specially when they've enacted "no fault" statutes. (I don't like it, mind you. But I understand it. Sort-of like you understand why you couldn't buy booze at 11 a.m. on Sundays in some jurisdictions… :) [I've never caused nor been involved in an auto accident… But I've only been driving for 40 years; there's surely something I need to be charged with…I mean, I must be guilty of something!]) Sang, you seem to like bureaucrats — to the exclusion of the common man!
You should write an essay explaining how you and K. are soul-mates; and why I am someone who should be sent to the Gulag. (Okay. I've mixed meta-fascist metaphors, and asked you to think. I apologize. Noone should ask so much of you!) I'm sure you can do it: Words are what you spew, amongst your spittle… And you've been taught that whatever nonsense you pen or pronounce is worthy of consideration.

Why are corporations to be excluded from 1st Amendment rights?

Why can't I require you to subsidize my penchant for right-wing rhetoric?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-13, 10:50:24
No. I'm asking you to think. What has really changed about health insurance. Now you have the option of signing up for it through your state's portal instead of your workplace, if you like. The "open enrollment" period for getting it seems to be thing of the past. The inflation for health care costs are half of what it previously was
Why can't I require you to subsidize my penchant for right-wing rhetoric?

Because your right-wing rhetoric is not bankrupting the country. Why do you think Republicans drafted the core of Obamacare in the first place? They complain of entitlements, but enacting their method for reducing their growth is socialist only because Obama happened to the president that put it into action. It was hilarious when right-wingers tried to get senior citizen's vote by claiming the ACA would take money from Medicare, when that was their goal for decades.  Do you get it now? This whole opposition to the ACA is partisan bullshit. Where are the "death panels?" Obama is not the only one that's been lying.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-17, 22:10:08
Doesn't matter who wins there will still be a great rillions of debt. armies everywhere with hudreds of cripping cost, tens of millions of poor Americans, fighting for rights and so on. Earlier jimbro got his expected dig about me going o about corporates. but the truth is the country is not a proper democracy at all and it is the corporates who run the damn place. Elections are with exceptions a facre. So many millionaires on the Hill, tnes of thousands of full-time people from corroborates to fund and influence. Independents outside of the 2 farces - Democrat and Republican have no chance due to the unlimited expenses now allowed.  It is okay for ex-colonists here to sigh at my corporate stance but then they tend to be reasonable comfortable so not as effected as too many others. Now the hype about another Presidential not due to 2016. And all that childish and immature. ballyhoo that goes along with the carnival. Any link with proper politics is almost an accident. It is like people going to the circus to forget reality in lives. :devil:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-18, 00:55:46
OakdaleFTL said, "Why can't I require you to subsidize my penchant for right-wing rhetoric?" Because your right-wing rhetoric is not bankrupting the country.
As usual, you've Freudian-slipped, and fell on your keister! :)
Of course, you meant what you said; the logic is inescapable! But you don't like it…
You're a narcissist and a nihilist, Sang… If you weren't also a Fascist, I wouldn't mind so much.
BTW: Keep trying to justify fMRI studies, as explicatory of political rhetoric… Such is your brain, on drugs.

@RJ: You remind me of a short-short SF story, where a guy was given one wish by a computer genie! He asked for "Peas on Earth!" He got it… Of course, nobody that's learned to type would make such a mistake.
You're Split-Green gobble-de-gook Scots Socialism soup may suit you. But why, goy-o, would you think it'd suit a more robust clan?
(I was going to say "boy-o" but reconsidered: Who do you hate more -or at least as much as- than the RCs? That's right: The Jews! When the Caliphate takes control of your "democratic" isthmus, you'll be long-gone. Will you have left anyone behind to carry on?
Or is your bile sufficient justification for you?)

What's coming up in 2016 is going to be — interesting! (Your "tamed" people needn't be concerned: They haven't mattered for hundreds of years!) But -to your delight- it's quite possible that America will veer even further towards democracy…
I hope that doesn't happen.

(Not because people are stupid or because their "will" will be subverted by "corporate" interests; and not because moneyed interests might prevail — or those of the "ruling elite"… But because the power of persuasion will come under the control of the government!)

Government is a necessary evil…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-19, 01:53:53
The otcome of the Presidential Election (already boring ex-colonists bright sparks) will not make a lot of difference. There will still be tens of millions of poor and millions lost homes, imperial military spending and so on. I bet the really bright Americans (they exist) will be shaking their heads at the long off election carnival.  :zzz:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-22, 16:40:29
As usual, you've Freudian-slipped, and fell on your keister!  :)

Did you seriously not understand? Unlike your right-wing rhetoric,  spiraling healthcare costs were threatening to bankrupt the country through Medicare/Medicaid, taxpayers having to pay for the medical costs of the uninsured - making the argument that through the ACA you're paying someone's medical bill all the more ironic since the geniuses at the GOP probably really don't understand they already are, etc Our discussion would be so much better if your read for understanding instead of trying to find a strawman in posts.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-22, 22:34:42
spiraling healthcare costs were threatening to bankrupt the country through Medicare/Medicaid, taxpayers having to pay for the medical costs of the uninsured

You actually believe that?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-23, 04:15:56
The country could be bankrupted through the medical situation/ Duh.

The same nation spends half the world's armaments bill so that is more likely to bankrupt and it is totally un-necessary if you stopped poking into other countries. Looking after your own people and their health is far, far, more important than imperial mess ups. Surely the health of so many who are struggling is more of a principled stance after all there are millions who cannot even use the new care thing.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-23, 17:32:55
The country could be bankrupted through the medical situation/ Duh.

That's why the Heritage Foundation, a conservative thinktank, came up with the guts of the ACA in the first place.  In fact, the Republicans have been warning for years that the medical entitlements would, if not bankrupt the country, drive the deficit through the ceiling; especially with millions of aging babyboomers that will need healthcare at an increasing rate.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-24, 05:31:29
And Sanguinemoon why spend so much on military? Surely the day to day health of the people is more important. Even more so with tens of millions of poor who are not getting much basically out of life. Here every single political party is 100% behind our National Health Service and they might argue over points but not one wants to see it go no matter what.  I am aware of the much different tradition over the water (if not all the details) bu here  I am glad that one can go to get help and not be worried that an insurance system has some small print that stops you getting what might be needed. It is too much of a gamble and cannot help but feel for the less well off in your country and is a shame. Many here feel that you have a system that is rather selective and is a pity for so many folk.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2014-11-24, 06:02:53
What a tragedy . The U.S.A. hasn't got its own rj to set everything right.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-24, 08:59:18
Let's bring him over and amend the constitution so we can install him as President
Surely the day to day health of the people is more important. Even more so with tens of millions of poor who are not getting much basically out of life.

A basic problem with ACA is that doesn't directly address the causes of America's healthcare costs. A recent CBO report shows "Obamacare" will cost less than expected and even the earlier, higher estimate showed substantial savings over leaving things they were. So that's good news. The bad news is will well above any other advanced country and even insured people can be bankrupted by falling ill. Yup, healthcare will be an even larger political issue in campaigns to come, both from the financial prospective and the moral one. (http://cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/45231-ACA_Estimates.pdf)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-11-24, 18:02:23

What a tragedy . The U.S.A. hasn't got its own rj to set everything right.
Wrong. We do. It's in Texas. It's Republican. It's Gov. Rick Perry.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.star-telegram.com%2F.a%2F6a00d8341c2cc953ef019104244a22970c-120wi&hash=79c888c2d37ce1310fe9f9fd64c8817b" rel="cached" data-hash="79c888c2d37ce1310fe9f9fd64c8817b" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://blogs.star-telegram.com/.a/6a00d8341c2cc953ef019104244a22970c-120wi)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-11-25, 00:34:35


What a tragedy . The U.S.A. hasn't got its own rj to set everything right.
Wrong. We do. It's in Texas. It's Republican. It's Gov. Rick Perry.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.star-telegram.com%2F.a%2F6a00d8341c2cc953ef019104244a22970c-120wi&hash=79c888c2d37ce1310fe9f9fd64c8817b" rel="cached" data-hash="79c888c2d37ce1310fe9f9fd64c8817b" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://blogs.star-telegram.com/.a/6a00d8341c2cc953ef019104244a22970c-120wi)


Wrong tt92. Wrong Jaybro. We do. It's in New York. It's Demonrat. Its Hillary "What difference does it make" Rottham-Clinton.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FvrSdHN9.jpg&hash=7c755b6fdc33072485a162eb22740295" rel="cached" data-hash="7c755b6fdc33072485a162eb22740295" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://imgur.com/vrSdHN9.jpg)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FC9g2QAt.jpg&hash=6d1fdb44f7b5f9ae68c3362c32abc9f3" rel="cached" data-hash="6d1fdb44f7b5f9ae68c3362c32abc9f3" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://imgur.com/C9g2QAt.jpg)
                         [glow=black,2,300]Hillary Lied  --  They Died.[/glow]


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-25, 01:04:22
Well you lot could do with me over over there. Amusing for jimbro to equate me with one of those rightist Republican nightmares but we in GB have absolutely nothing like that corner and being more democratic very thankful for that. They would get nowhere hear. With every political party in the UK 100% our system says something about care and concern and not money or trying to find a job with insurance built in. For a change the place would be run for the people - all of the people not just the money barons so dear muckers your loss! Having been in the public eye, leadership, strong and a public speaker knowing how easy it is to wow ex-colonists it would be a new revolution without all the failed stuff in the 18th century!  :yes: :hat:

Can I say Sanguinemoon, it is good to here that health issue nicknamed "Obamacare" is less expensive than being aired yet what about the working class below those who can pay for that care? Not everyone can get a job with health thrown in and we are fortunate not to have that to mess with. So what do those at the bottom with low paid jobs, etc do? I have mentioned before teams of doctors (and dentists) who have toured about America offering free measurement and they are overwhelmed. Even allowing for any misuse what do the bottom folk do - a charity hospital if found - get worse or just die? It seems they are not included in the general picture and your health area must be one of the most expensive in the world.  Those outside of the rich or those middle-class people who can afford Obamacare but the picture being missed are the unfortunates in their droves?  :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2014-11-25, 05:03:32

Let's bring him over and amend the constitution so we can install him as President

Nah, just make him Czar of Whacking Congress Critters over the Head (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_at_Arms_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives). Plenty of empty skulls there, lots of work for him. With enough whacking they might actually get something done.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-25, 07:13:18
So what do those at the bottom with low paid jobs, etc do?

What happens to them is they have to go to the Emergency Room for ailments and injuries can and should be treated at a clinic. The ER at least has to stabilize your condition and can't turn you away. This, of course, is another factor that drives up the healthcare costs in America. Those people you mentioned often can't pay for that ER visit, so the taxpayers do a couple different ways: The hospital has to adjust their prices upward to compensate for the unpaid bills (and thus insurance prices follow suit) if it's a private hospital or the hospital is run by the state, the cost is paid for through tax money. The more the GOP tried to avoid having to pay other people's medical bills by eliminating "Obamacare", the more they cause the very thing they try to avoid to happen.

You touched on low-income people can be expected to pay for the mandated insurance. What the ACA does is grant subsidies to low-income people to pay for the insurance in the hopes they can see a clinic that will charge a couple hundred dollars to treat the illness/injury instead of a couple thousand and thus not a much cost will be passed on to other people. The GOP think small and say "I don't want to MY tax dollars to subsidize somebody else's insurance! :irked: " They're too blind to se they're already are. I can't stress this enough, the pre-Obama GOP already understood this. Amazing how it suddenly became "socialist" and wrong the second Obama was sworn in. :p
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-25, 07:21:36
Nah, just make him Czar of Whacking Congress Critters over the Head (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_at_Arms_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives). Plenty of empty skulls there, lots of work for him. With enough whacking they might actually get something done.

At least he arrange them in order of skull thickness and make a kind of GOP Empty Skull xylophone. If he uploads it to Youtube, his views can be the billions as he plays Flower of Scotland . If he takes the show on the road for world-wide tour, his profits could be eight or nine figures. For the American leg of the show, he'll want to use a Las Vegas agency, obviously.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-26, 10:45:22
Nice try jimbro but we are  almost children at the game.  A completely diffeernt political system and as for the Guardian that loss-making lefty paper will of course follow the Labour Party mind. Here tv ads for politics are strictly controlled and only prior to important elections. Every party even at local town councils is strictly limited as is the content plus what it can spend on a candidate. Everything must be submitted to the authorities. The power of the lobbyist is about but it is certainly not at the level of what goes on in your hill with tens of thousands of them. One can understand your need to defend but we are amateurs compared to your country. Unlimited cash flows by the rich and big business. Constant  wars so that the military hardware industry will make profits. Even the Democrats when Obama first stood got massive corporate money. Health is big money profits whereas here all are looked after no matter the circumstances. In your recent national elections just think what the vote was for regarding so-called representatives of the people. When individually comfortable it is so easy just to ignore the real truth behind the scenes. The rich here pay a very big percentage of the government income but don't try and tell me it is the same in the land of the people.

There is much to be complimentary of but trying to say everyone else is the same or actually indirectly as bad is a joke! ( :devil:)  Because of the power of the Wall Street barons nationally people are becoming less and less inclined to vote because they know the political system was hi-jacked a while ago. I do feel it is sad because the people are basically decent but a two-party system that is controlled by Wall Street has failed but the people unable to do anything about it.  ???
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-11-26, 14:03:48
Rj, please put a space between the : and the word "be". PLEASE!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-27, 22:28:01
 :blush:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2014-12-29, 04:44:09
 :bye:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-12-29, 09:05:35
Double  :bye: and :rip:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2014-12-29, 19:29:25
Doubtless  :rip: to return the third day.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-12-30, 01:56:08
Maybe Americans should get the chance to vote for the corporates as they effectively run the place not the would-be politicians. Hhhm, maybe on second thoughts that would only confuse the situation as they are both in the same camp. A President approval rate of 40% and barely 50% voting, oh dear.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2014-12-30, 04:01:16
Anyone else on here think Mr. Howie lives in a detached house?  :eek:  :right:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-12-30, 09:51:10
A President approval rate of 40% and barely 50% voting, oh dear.

I actually wonder if it's possible for a president to maintain much about, say, 50% these days. The biased media will bad mouth the sitting President regardless of what's happening. For example, I wonder how much Fox reports that Obama is presiding over the fastest growing economy in more than a decade.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-12-30, 23:35:11
I wonder how much Fox reports that Obama is presiding over the fastest growing economy in more than a decade.


Witnessing, along with us all   would probably better specifically define his place in the present economic picture.

Our American Economy has a heartbeat all it's own, & will virtually rise & fall as it pleases.(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/nono007.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2014-12-31, 01:36:04

I wonder how much Fox reports that Obama is presiding over the fastest growing economy in more than a decade.


Witnessing, along with us all   would probably better specifically define his place in the present economic picture.

Our American Economy has a heartbeat all it's own, & will virtually rise & fall as it pleases.(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/nono007.gif)

My party presides over the good times and your party over the bad.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2014-12-31, 02:27:33

I wonder how much Fox reports that Obama is presiding over the fastest growing economy in more than a decade.


Witnessing, along with us all   would probably better specifically define his place in the present economic picture.

Our American Economy has a heartbeat all it's own, & will virtually rise ( when we go to war and the MIC benefits from it) & falls (when we let Wall St. play casino with our retirement funds) as it pleases.(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/nono007.gif)

FTFY
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-12-31, 04:06:47
Well we will have to wait and see about that economic growth and Colonel Rebel has a point of wars boosting the economy the wrong way. Itwould be a much better dependable growth if the military was scaled back and heavily and people who are suffering at home or cannot afford the doctor would be greatly aided. O just cannot fathom where the common sense is sticking a neb into lots of other countries thus increasing the trillions in debt. Petrol is a strong part of the financial situation but the latest news from the US is that the oil industry is in a dodgy way due to world prices etc and thousands of oil workers can expect to be laid off. Why can't more of you see that instead of trying to run and influence the world and start wars and leave a mess that the country would be far better off withdrawing such and get back to helping it's own people instead.  My understanding is that Obama's bandwagon got more corporate backing than the Republicans and that is a surprise whilst showing the political system is flawed, losing support and a wider choice needed than the 2 parties stuck with.

I do recall some time ago our Southern associate supporting an alternative man who was I would say a bit of fresh air. That Obama's regime couldn't encourage more than the 50 odd percent is a reminder of the decline. Of course it is optimistic to look for growth but the trouble is that very often it doesn't always effect the peole it should. In conclusion I would add that the political set-up no longer serves that constituency referred to in that constitution - namely the people.....
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-01, 04:16:13
My party presides over the good times and your party over the bad.

To some extent, the Democratic party does. Clinton, longest economic expansion in history and budget surplus. Bush policies such as deregulating financial instruments that had been outlawed because they helped lead to the Great Depression - the Great Recession and turning the surplus into deficit.  Kansas, under radical supply-side policies is bleeding red ink with middling job growth at best. California, balanced budget and strong economic growth. Republicans have been become the economic illiterates under Supply Side, but Keynesian economics says to adjust your policies to the current conditions (unlike the Fox News version which says it's big government and high taxes; despite the fact Keynes himself warned against it. GOPers somehow confuse economic pragmatism with socialism, being retards in the field.

That also serves to answer Smiley's objection.There are certain things government can do, both by over-regulating and deregulating that can cripple the economy. "A heartbeat of its own" sounds good, but it's not entirely true in the US or any other advanced economy. The heart requires a working brain to function.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-03, 02:51:37
A shitstorm may be brewing. David Duke David Duke (http://fusion.net/story/36233/steve-scalise-david-duke-euro/) , former KKK leader and Louisiana representative, has threatened to expose other politicians with ties to him. But let's backtrack for just a second. The House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-Louisiana) spoke before the white supremacist hate group European-American Unity and Rights Organization. So now he's feeling the pain for it. Duke's threat is in response to the fallout for Scalise.

Unless Duke is bluffing, nobody on his list will elected to even be the dog catcher. It's also interesting that former Klan leader is so quick to fend Scalise, so quick that it gives credibility to to the allegations that he's indeed a racist and white supremacist.   Scalise claims he didn't know what  EURO is, but how can you not? It take Google and 30 seconds to find out. Even if the charges are false, he still shouldn't be reelected do his incompetence if can't find out.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-03, 06:50:25
I see a third bush is contemplating the election. Of course basically it is a situation free to use but there have been more than one family acting in a hereditary way which seems odd when looking in to a non-patrician system.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-03, 17:15:17
Because it's unique to America to have political families, right? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-01-03, 17:46:37
With any luck, maybe we'll avoid both Bushes and Clintons for awhile. For sure, nothing will make me vote third-party faster than a Bush Republican nominee and a Clinton Democrat nominee in 2016.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-04, 02:18:19
No Sanguinemoon I don't reason that is a reasonable answer in a country that sniffs at hereditary functions elsewhere in the world. It leans perhaps towards an excuse for the contradiction and I think there does need to be an overhaul of the  political process as it does seem to be losing an awful lot of interest from the people in general. Maybe there is a need for something wider than the cobble up of Democrats and Republicans and the shoving of anyone else out the way. Big money actually talks to the Dems as well as the Reps whilst the people sighand say away from the ballot box.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-01-04, 02:26:15
Bernie Sanders is thinking about running. Then at least the right-wingers would have an actual left-winger to freak out about :right:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-01-04, 19:56:54
The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
A clone after a clone after a clone after a clone after a clone after a clone after a clone after a clone after a clone...
What a patience my God...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-05, 01:14:55
Then at least the right-wingers would have an actual left-winger to freak out about

Crap. Now they won't know what to do with themselves. Imagine if he managed to win :insane: Now they won't be able to call someone a communist, socialist for implementing their own ideas. What will they do with themselves?
I don't reason that is a reasonable answer in a country that sniffs at hereditary functions elsewhere in the world.

It's not the country that's doing this. It's one man and there's no guarantee Jeb will even win the Republican nomination, must less the presidency. I'd give at about four to one odds against, with his fifteen minutes of fame being over. But you don't care. It's just another chance to throw a cheap jab at America. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-01-05, 01:32:11
I'm thinking that Americans have had enough of both the Bushes and the Clintons for awhile. It's not terribly likely that either will win their respective party nominations--- though Hillary does stand a somewhat better chance than Jeb does.

There's other, better choices in both parties-- how about we the people choose better during the primaries, then in the general election we can choose between two viable candidates. OK, just a thought....
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-01-05, 02:10:18

Then at least the right-wingers would have an actual left-winger to freak out about

Crap. Now they won't know what to do with themselves. Imagine if he managed to win :insane: Now they won't be able to call someone a communist, socialist for implementing their own ideas. What will they do with themselves?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocookie.net%2Funcyclopedia%2Fimages%2Fb%2Fb5%2FExploding-head.gif%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20120914120349&hash=b41d5733bba25b371e711c559550cc9e" rel="cached" data-hash="b41d5733bba25b371e711c559550cc9e" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/b/b5/Exploding-head.gif/revision/latest?cb=20120914120349) (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/A_Splode)
:left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-01-05, 02:14:03

I'm thinking that Americans have had enough of both the Bushes and the Clintons for awhile. It's not terribly likely that either will win their respective party nominations--- though Hillary does stand a somewhat better chance than Jeb does.

Compared to the freak show of the last two elections he looks almost sane, so, not going to happen.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-05, 03:15:52
I'm thinking that Americans have had enough of both the Bushes and the Clintons for awhile.

Yup. In his myoptic Anti-Americanism and his zeal to call Americans hypocritical, Howie doesn't understand that being a Bush is liable to work against Jeb rather than for him.
Compared to the freak show of the last two elections he looks almost sane, so, not going to happen.

George himself is the picture of sanity compared to the rest of the GOP clowncar. Did you hear Huckabee is quiting Fox News for his run. Seriously? Do the Republicans secretly want a Democratic president? It's possible, since they do a much better job at bitching about the "socialist" Democrat than actually providing policy; their states were bleeding red ink and the economy was in toilet so they focused on trying to kill Planned Parenthood and stopping gay marriage like the assclowns that they are.

It seems a little of topic, but look what happened in here in Las Vegas.

(http://www.logcabin.org/pressrelease/lcr-nevada-president-appointed-vice-chairman-of-clark-county-republican-party-2/)
Quote
Las Vegas, NV & Washington, D.C. — Log Cabin Republicans of Nevada President Ed Williams has been appointed Vice Chairman of the Clark County Republican Party. Clark County, anchored by Las Vegas, is the largest county in Nevada, exceeding the combined population of all other counties in the state.

“Ed brings the modern business management, IT and communications skills the Clark County party needs to beat Senator Harry Reid in 2016,” Clark County Republican Party Chairman David McKeon said. “He wholeheartedly supports our goals of winning elections, winning majorities and keeping Nevada red. I respect the leadership he brings to the party and glad he is part of the team.”
Here's glimmer of hope for the GOP. It's some of the Western Republicans that actually stopped giving a shit about people's sexual orientation and get on the business building solid economic policy. The article's inaccuracy is calling Nevada "Red." Because of the Las Vegas area (~2/3 population of the whole state) and Reno (most of the rest) Nevada has flipped to at least a Bluish Shade of Purple.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-05, 04:07:32
You two, mjmspsrt40 and Sang need to get out more for fresh air! It is not the "man himself" stuff it is part of the system. There has been a list of such patrician families over the decades as well you know it so the system goes along with it as they get elected. You don't have to create a would-be confidence thing by gubbing out the anti-stuff as it is your own country that does so much in complete difference from the things it boasts it stands for. None of my list elsewhere was attended to simply because they are all happenings but you near tear flag wavers conjure up rather than face up!  :lol:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-05, 06:48:44
What you have us do, Howie? Ban someone from running because a relative was already president or something equally preposterous? Jeb has every right to run and so does Hillary. Likewise, the people have the right to tell them to get stuffed.

The only growing "party" in America is "Independent" , according to Gallup (http://www.gallup.com/poll/166763/record-high-americans-identify-independents.aspx)

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.gallup.com%2Forigin%2Fgallupinc%2FGallupSpaces%2FProduction%2FCms%2FPOLL%2F5_2jqzaulusmlps9-fmska.png&hash=431417cae36c9680ee8ee2b2e3232141" rel="cached" data-hash="431417cae36c9680ee8ee2b2e3232141" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/5_2jqzaulusmlps9-fmska.png)

If people are less likely to vote according to party, they're sure the hell not going to let someone slide into office because of family name. So it seems this "problem" has worked itself out.

While you might legitimately be unaware of this trend of Americans to reject the parties, what I see is you inventing another reason to bash America.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-01-05, 09:00:24
Bashed by a limp lettuce.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-05, 10:39:09
It's like if somebody eats said limp lettuce and farts. You can't get the smell out of the room.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-07, 04:49:39
Independent there really means sod all as it is a corner not a party. I recall Colonel Rebel once indicating his view on a Third party candidate Ron Paul? Trouble is that the system is so fixed against people outside the big two people are sick of things and remember just over 50% bothered to vote in the national election. One cannot help but feel sorry for the carve up as the "people" are being conned. Excuses are made for these patrician families that are a contradiction to the actual system that it is claimed to be. It is all very well to sniff at hereditary rule but I am afraid you have your own aristocracy without the coronets. In the end it is a wider sense of democracy and folk are not getting it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-01-07, 22:49:41
Independent there really means sod all as it is a corner not a party. I


Yes I agree, especially if you believe party affiliation means everything as it does in most Parliamentary Political Systems.

But we're different here.

Here, in the USA it means far less, & now that Independents are growing in leaps & bounds, the 2 party stalwarts are being forced to take less & less for granted.

These voters, many who have dropped the Democrat & Republican Brands, are simply saying they won't be taken for granted by anybody anymore, & are demanding particular attention from potential candidates.

The newer registering voters are saying precisely the same thing.

Where these Independent Registered voters will vote is becoming more & more a crap-shoot, & the term "Party Faithfull" is meaning so much less.

The Tea Party, which isn't a party at all but a mindset, has been pushing for existing voters to change their Party affiliations to Independent, & new voters to ignore the traditional Democrat & Republican Brands, & register Independent.

The Tea Party, who everyone says is dead because they don't protest & march like days of old, & have become almost invisible, has been extremely active & successful, & will continue being successful in driving voters to Independent registrations.


(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FWW8WNF7.jpg&hash=5094c5342745e95b23c601ad45f62da3" rel="cached" data-hash="5094c5342745e95b23c601ad45f62da3" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://imgur.com/WW8WNF7.jpg)


(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2F4JQ58fd.jpg&hash=d64c106541c390912ac519d4ed4b8008" rel="cached" data-hash="d64c106541c390912ac519d4ed4b8008" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://imgur.com/4JQ58fd.jpg)


source (http://bit.ly/143gz3U)





Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-01-08, 00:46:04
I can think of nothing more suicidal for the two-party system here than to present us with a Bush on the Republican ticket and a Clinton on the Democratic ticket in 2016. One or the other of them just might win-- but it'll demolish the lock the two major parties have had on American politics. 2020 will look like a circus if the two majors parties don't do better than that in 2016.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-01-08, 02:53:18

I can think of nothing more suicidal for the two-party system here than to present us with a Bush on the Republican ticket and a Clinton on the Democratic ticket in 2016. One or the other of them just might win-- but it'll demolish the lock the two major parties have had on American politics. 2020 will look like a circus if the two majors parties don't do better than that in 2016.


It can happen.

But, it won't happen until the American People demand other alternatives via their vote.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-09, 05:37:29
Well Smiley how many "Independents" outside of the big two are on the Hill?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-09, 13:00:52
Two!

Smiley's numbers mean very little, since there's no place for the "independents" to go other than the Democrat party.
===========================
On a more positive note, "Sue Ann Arnall, the ex-wife of Oklahoma oil magnate Harold Hamm, has deposited a handwritten $975 million divorce check."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-01-10, 02:19:59
On a more positive note, "Sue Ann Arnall, the ex-wife of Oklahoma oil magnate Harold Hamm, has deposited a handwritten $975 million divorce check."


Though I never met his wife, I met Mr. Hamm a number of times about 15-17 years ago.

He engaged some of our services to provide his personal security staff some tactical training.

Might I say, he was very well protected back then, as I'm sure he probably still is today, & we weren't disappointed in our very generous compensation package either.
  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/grin.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-10, 03:34:05
Just as jimbro had to point out that "independents" have to be in the big two so does not solve the issue. In recent times a doctor here was very unhappy about local health issues and thought the major parties were not doing enough so stood as an completely independent candidate totalyl away from any party and won the seat. The same happened with a journalist who unseated a long standing MP.

What is really needed is a truly wider system instead of one where many people just have to vote for the lesser of two evils kind of thing. After all when you see how much the Democrats got in funding compared to the Republicans it only conforms my concern. We have a legal limity on MP elections and every other lower ones as well. When it comes to a national election all parties with over a certain number of candidates are give an 5 minute free slot and must be above board.  There may well have been a time when you could have got away with the 2 parties but they are monolith now and increasingly distancing from much of the electorate and as i pointed out the slump is great and not very good is it?  Trying to be an independent mind on the Hill inside a party is difficult at the best of times and has all sorts of problems. It is just a pity you do not have a wider political system because the staying away from elections is showing a deep problem.

I only wish there would be a change and a more concerned and passionate concern for local internal u=issues and a much wider franchise than sadly stuck with.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-11, 02:16:06
From the you can't be serious category, Romney (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/romney-and-bush-ready-to-rumble-114153.html) is looking at another run. :faint: And ol' Etch-A-Sketch has the nerve to say Jeb would have trouble winning the White White :faint: :faint:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-01-11, 02:49:47
Romney had two serious problems his last time out.

First, the basic dishonesty. You only wanted to look at the man to realize he had a more tenuous hold on truth than anybody since Nixon on the Republican side of the aisle. He even made me think Clinton was more honest, and we all know Clinton lied even when the truth would sound better.

Second, his unfortunate choice of running mate. That R/R logo was too close to the one used by Rolls Royce, and when you have Democrats looking to hang the "You're only for the rich!" label on you, it would be hard to pick a worse emblem to represent your ticket than two Rs joined together in that way.

The second problem can be fixed--- at least somewhat-- by choosing a different running mate and giving more thought to the way your ticket presents itself to the public. The first problem--- oh boy, this is a core problem and there's no easy fix. Wherever Romney goes, there he is. There's no escaping a dishonest demeanor except to change what you are from inside out. That isn't so easy to do.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-11, 03:05:12
and when you have Democrats looking to hang the "You're only for the rich!" label on you

That and the infamous 47 percent video pretty well solidified it.
First, the basic dishonesty.

Quite so. That aide of his thinking they could "Etch-A-Sketch" away his earlier positions was actually insulting. Welcome to the information age where semi-intelligent voters can dredge up your entire past with a single Google search, Mittens. It was well known in that election that he was flip-flopping just about every single one of his earlier positions. Probably his one consistency was following a generic Republican template in economic policy.

Assuming he wants a GOP president in 2016, the smart thing for him to do is not run. Him and Jeb will tear each other apart. I still content the reason Obama is president is that every candidate that could have beaten him in 2008 (including that year's version of Romney) destroyed each other.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-12, 09:31:43
I still content the reason Obama is president is that every candidate that could have beaten him in 2008 (including that year's version of Romney) destroyed each other.

There's a good reason for that. It's called Palin, who was into self-destruction.
(https://brotherpeacemaker.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/debatewink.jpg)
screen.yahoo.com/palin-rap-000000488.html (http://screen.yahoo.com/palin-rap-000000488.html)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-12, 23:41:23
Imagine someone like her even having mused on the idea of standing for the Presidency? Had she stood and won the noise around the US and world would be a groan and I would save a spare room for ex-colonist immigrants.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-01-13, 10:01:44

I still content the reason Obama is president is that every candidate that could have beaten him in 2008 (including that year's version of Romney) destroyed each other.

Yeah, the lone, sane republican got something like 2% in the primary.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-13, 21:25:23

Yeah, the lone, sane republican got something like 2% in the primary.

"You know damned well there's no such thing," he said, revealing how he votes.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-01-15, 13:05:07


Yeah, the lone, sane republican got something like 2% in the primary.

"You know damned well there's no such thing," he said, revealing how he votes.

Well, 'sane' as in 'sane for a republican', as in 'not quite frothing at the mouth crazy' :left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-15, 13:17:36
 :insane: Shhhhh! There are Republicans here. :insane:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-16, 01:56:52
Well, 'sane' as in 'sane for a republican', as in 'not quite frothing at the mouth crazy'

Our governor Sandoval shows signs of sanity from time to time. I think it's the Southern Republicans, who are more descended from the segregationist Dixiecrats, that keep up the lunacy in the GOP than the Western ones. Here, some of them are indeed entrepreneurial and everything the GOP pretends its base is. You can debate some Republicans online and it comes out they're from California and never lived in a Red Southern state, where former  Grand Wizards of the KKK get elected (remember David Duke?) and one Republican voter after another pays for their groceries at Wal*Mart with EBT cards; jobs that should should pay about $15 dollars an hour pay $9, hence maybe taking a percent off the unemployment rate, but otherwise keeping the entire economy down.

Maybe if Republicans from California, Washington, Oregon and Nevada could assert more influence the GOP could actually focus on smaller government and lower taxes instead endlessly fighting equal marriage (the Constitution has spoken, guys) and other idiocy. Arizona is excluded because they're trying to become the West's Alabama :p. There's still some hope of Idaho and Colorado Republicans, and Utah tries hard to be America's own little Mormon Iran.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-01-16, 02:26:44

Our governor Sandoval shows signs of sanity from time to time. I think it's the Southern Republicans, who are more descended from the segregationist Dixiecrats, that keep up the lunacy in the GOP than the Western ones.

Even Haslam does, occasionally. Has to play to his base though.


(remember David Duke?)

Vote for the crook, it's important :right:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-24, 20:56:38
Terrific news for the Democrats!

Sarah Palin and Donald Trump both interested in 2016 runs.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/24/politics/sarah-palin-2016/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/24/politics/sarah-palin-2016/index.html)


Mod edit: Fixed link
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-25, 04:07:58
Hundreds of millions will be wasted on the carnival that passes for an election and even more of a waste as neither Palin nor Trump will win it will be Clinton. Nice to see your own equivalents of Upstairs downstairs aristocrats are still active!

That Palin is even considering the matter of the election is an insult to the system Americans have got to put up with and the fresh air of Alaska has not cleared her brain cells yet. She knows little and proves it when she opens her mouth and smiles whilst talking gibberish. As for Trump he is another full of talk and always going to "do something." He should stick to opening golf courses and such. Those republicans who somehow think they would be on a good chance because Palin is a woman and then standing against another have lost the plot. That Party has been so messed up for so long and not really getting out the bit. Although I am not struck much by woman politicians who often appear bitchy (although I made an exception for one) the Democrats are well into n easy win for the White House. If I was you dear jimbro you can give sitting up through the night as my crystal ball is a good one and you can whistle "Scotland the Brave" in thanks to my hep along with a crate of Irn Bru.

ps. Is the Republican Party HQ in a mental hospital/
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-01-25, 23:27:43

Hundreds of millions will be wasted on the carnival that passes for an ........  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BlaBlaBlaBla.gif) (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/bsmeternoboom.gif)

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/grenademouthfy2.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-26, 09:20:29

Hundreds of millions will be wasted on the carnival that passes for an election and even more of a waste as neither Palin nor Trump will win it will be Clinton.

I hope Palin gets the Republican nod!
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&feature=player_embedded&x-yt-cl=84503534&v=RrzD-zqWwWc  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&feature=player_embedded&x-yt-cl=84503534&v=RrzD-zqWwWc)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-26, 18:35:05
Nice to see your own equivalents of Upstairs downstairs aristocrats are still active!

We do have our would-be nobles and you have your actual inbred European ones. I'm not hatin', though. Just because a guy's sister is also his aunt is no reason to disqualify him from House of Lords. The mental retardation from centuries of this going on just makes them 37.297 percent funnier :yes:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-27, 03:20:09
Well unfortunately Sanguinemoon you don't have the proper picture on the House of Lords at all.

The number of hereditary peers was reduced considerably from sitting whatever the rank - Duke, Baron, Lord. Life peers are more to the fore these days and they actually cover a wider background than you know. They include all sorts of folk who have contributed to society  from experts in subjects to retired trade Union Leades.  In the Upper House they only get paid for the days they are in and cannot stop Bills. They used to up to just before the 1st World War. They can check the details and pass a Bill back to the Commoins but eventually the Commons are the decider. So it isn't as confrontational a tradition as well

So those from more humble pasts are across the chamber and the experience of the House is more valid than concentrating on the fixed minority of the traditional families. Personally I do not want a replacement "Senate" thing which would just add another very expensive chamber and it didn't have powers to stop a Bill then no use or different from now. where the members only get those daily payments I mentioned. Anyway back to the thread.

I note that Trump has come out again yet again (!) saying he might stand so why doesn't he dither? Looking at the possibles for the joker pack the Republicans they have no chance.  Would it not be a consideration for the more clued up Republicans to leave that party and reform the Progressive party as that break was caused by people who were worried about way out politics? Theu did get some reps but didn't unfortunately last long and today would have given Americans a slightly more chance of a wider election.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-27, 08:42:53
he might stand so why doesn't he dither?

Because he just enjoys trolling the pundits every four years. It's not clear why anyone really thinks he has any intention of putting his business empire on the backburner long enough to make a serious run. Then what if he actually won? Look at this from his point of view. Sure, he could set policy to help his business and others like it. However, the megalomaniac won't want to allow someone else to run his corporations in his stead.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-01-27, 09:38:34

Nice to see your own equivalents of Upstairs downstairs aristocrats are still active!

We do have our would-be nobles and you have your actual inbred European ones. I'm not hatin', though. Just because a guy's sister is also his aunt is no reason to disqualify him from House of Lords. The mental retardation from centuries of this going on just makes them 37.297 percent funnier :yes:

Most of them are appointed on merit these days, there's a bunch of more or less retired politicians, actual scientists and whatnot in there. Supposed to be more or less a council of experts that don't have to pander to the Great Unwashed, which actually sounds like a fairly decent idea.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-01-27, 09:40:12

he might stand so why doesn't he dither?

Because he just enjoys trolling the pundits every four years. It's not clear why anyone really thinks he has any intention of putting his business empire on the backburner long enough to make a serious run. Then what if he actually won? Look at this from his point of view. Sure, he could set policy to help his business and others like it. However, the megalomaniac won't want to allow someone else to run his corporations in his stead.

Pulling a Palin and raking in campaign contributions, while generating publicity for his businesses.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-27, 13:56:28

Pulling a Palin and raking in campaign contributions, while generating publicity for his businesses.
Palin pulling a Palin is better that anything else she could do in politics.

Quote
Sarah Palin will speak at West Hills College in Lemoore, Calif. this May, reports ABC Local News -- and she'll receive $115,000 to do so.

Despite Palin's high price tag, West Hills President Don Warkentin says that the money has already been made back in ticket sales. According to the Hill, the event has sold out of $25 and $5,000 tickets.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/27/sarah-palin-to-speak-at-w_n_815065.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/27/sarah-palin-to-speak-at-w_n_815065.html)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-01-27, 14:52:54


Pulling a Palin and raking in campaign contributions, while generating publicity for his businesses.
Palin pulling a Palin is better that anything else she could do in politics.

Yeah, keeps the money from going to wacko candidates that are actually trying to get elected :right:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-27, 16:50:17
Romney? ???
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-01-27, 19:47:43

Nice to see your own equivalents of Upstairs downstairs aristocrats are still active!

We do have our would-be nobles and you have your actual inbred European ones. I'm not hatin', though.[glow=green,2,300] Just because a guy's sister is also his aunt is no reason to disqualify him from House of Lords.[/glow] The mental retardation from centuries of this going on just makes them 37.297 percent funnier :yes:


(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lolfun.gif)  (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhuWSrhp.png&hash=c4ecf66400a71dd71883016307af2d88" rel="cached" data-hash="c4ecf66400a71dd71883016307af2d88" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/huWSrhp.png)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/big%20laugh%20007.gif)  (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhuWSrhp.png&hash=c4ecf66400a71dd71883016307af2d88" rel="cached" data-hash="c4ecf66400a71dd71883016307af2d88" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/huWSrhp.png)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/biglaugh023.gif)  (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhuWSrhp.png&hash=c4ecf66400a71dd71883016307af2d88" rel="cached" data-hash="c4ecf66400a71dd71883016307af2d88" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/huWSrhp.png)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lolfun.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-27, 22:04:43
O do make allowances for you being a redneck ex-colonsist and therefor expected to be ignorant of any other poltical system. However I did point out that the Lords cannot kick a Bill out and that hereditary peers involvement was greatly reduced and replaced by those made a peerr for only their lifetime not hereditary. The House does do good work due to it's experience and a wide range on the benches. It is also as I said too widfer represented from the ordinary backgrounds such as trade Union leaders who are retired, etc.

What  those in the republican Party circus who think they are intelligent is to reform the Progressive Party and give people a wider choice. The terrible poor number of votes on the Hill shows you have a deepening system problem. As for these "Conventions" they look daft from outside and certainly not conferences as elsewhere in the world with better systems.

The only trouble with brining back the US Progressive party is that with so few sensibles these days in the Republicans corner they would not be missed from there.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-28, 02:40:19
The only trouble with brining back the US Progressive party

What the hell are you talking about? Who wants to bring back a Left-wing minor party that disbanded in in 1955?  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_(United_States,_1948)) Or do you mean the one that went defunct in 1919 (and whose members in Congress left for the Republican party in 1918) or the one that lived for one year 1924? Who's trying to bring any of those parties back? 

Hrm, I did find a Progressive Party (http://progparty.org/) site from Oregon. Note that comparison of the Republican Party, the Democratic Party and themselves is incorrect on several issues.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-28, 22:06:05
Yes the earlier one and most of them actually came from the Republican Party as they thought it too extreme! Anything outside of Rockwell is too left over the pond!  Haha, what funny people. More and more are getting teed of as the system is no longer for the people, etc, etc, it is for those in the comfort zone and stuff everyone else. This situation has become more obvious and you should ask why so many stayed at home at the recent elections. kind of says something.

There was a general time when many could say the Democrats were with a sigh lesser of two evils but the present administration has shown even that to be a farce. Whether it be increased drones and killings, creating global problems, etc. The American people deserve a more mature and able system for the present day instead of the big two doing what they damn well like and spending unlimited sums from corporates, etc. Even that two-face with a statue, Lincoln came back today he would be scratching his head at what went wrong. As for Washington there should be a speed limit at his grave to control the revolving speed
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-28, 22:26:10
Forget the old days. ISIS has just made a declaration. Looks like Biden will be in office soon.

Quote
"Know, oh Obama, that we will reach America. Know also that we will cut off your head in the White House and transform America into a Muslim province." 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-01-28, 22:53:55
Know, oh Obama

Strange kind of addressing to someone.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-01-29, 05:08:13

Yes the earlier one and most of them actually came from the Republican Party as they thought it too extreme! Anything outside of Rockwell is too left over the pond!  Haha, what funny people. More and more are getting teed of as the system is no longer for the people, etc, etc, it is for those in the comfort zone and stuff everyone else. This situation has become more obvious and you should ask why so many stayed at home at the recent elections. kind of says something.

There was a general time when many could say the Democrats were with a sigh lesser of two evils but the present administration has shown even that to be a farce. Whether it be increased drones and killings, creating global problems, etc. The American people deserve a more mature and able system for the present day instead of the big two doing what they damn well like and spending unlimited sums from corporates, etc. Even that two-face with a statue, Lincoln came back today he would be scratching his head at what went wrong. As for Washington there should be a speed limit at his grave to control the revolving speed

tl;dr

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtU3vUOa2sw[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-01-31, 01:41:24
It looks like we can take one card off the table anyway. Mitt Romney said he's not going to run. Rush Limbaugh suggests the reason why Mitt isn't running is because all the big money went somewhere else. He may be right. Mitt may have realized he couldn't hope to win without heavy financial backing (who are we trying to kid, he couldn't win anyway) and if the big money sponsors don't support him he's finished before he gets started. So, he's out as of this morning.

So, now Jimbro still has his hopes set on a Sarah Palin run. If she wins the Republican primary, the party's hopes of securing the White House are done for. I can see this happening especially if Hillary wins the Democratic nomination. The Republicans will believe they need Palin to stop the Clinton bandwagon, and by choosing one of the worst possible candidates they will instead propel Clinton to her first term as President.

Republican suicide missions have happened before, how do you think Obama got his Senate seat so easily? The Illinois Republican Party did just about the most ham-handed things they could find to do, all but guaranteeing Obama would win against his Republican opponent.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-01-31, 02:06:58
Republican suicide missions have happened before, how do you think Obama got his Senate seat so easily? The Illinois Republican Party did just about the most ham-handed things they could find to do, all but guaranteeing Obama would win against his Republican opponent.

Correction, please:
Quote
[Jack Ryan's] 2004 campaign for the Senate, against future-president Barack Obama, received widespread media attention for the disclosure of sealed custody documents stemming from his divorce from actress Jeri Ryan. The unsealing of those documents ultimately led to Ryan's withdrawal from the campaign.
(from Wikipedia)

Team Obama had used this tactic successfully before…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-31, 02:16:11
Republican suicide missions have happened before, how do you think Obama got his Senate seat so easily?

Or became president, and got re-elected in 2012. The entire GOP primary season was one big suicide mission both times, including cynically choosing Palin as VP mainly by virtue of being a woman.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-01-31, 02:23:34

Republican suicide missions have happened before, how do you think Obama got his Senate seat so easily? The Illinois Republican Party did just about the most ham-handed things they could find to do, all but guaranteeing Obama would win against his Republican opponent.

Correction, please:
Quote
[Jack Ryan's] 2004 campaign for the Senate, against future-president Barack Obama, received widespread media attention for the disclosure of sealed custody documents stemming from his divorce from actress Jeri Ryan. The unsealing of those documents ultimately led to Ryan's withdrawal from the campaign.
(from Wikipedia)

Team Obama had used this tactic successfully before…


Did I lie? Take a look at what the Illinois Republicans did next: Instead of nominating the runner-up, who might have stood a chance, or holding a special election, again something that might have stood a chance, they went and got a guy from Maryland to come to Illinois and run against Obama. The only thing the carpet-bagger had going for him was that he was the same skin color as Obama. Nobody bought the ruse, especially not people in the Black community. Ordinary Republicans were angered at their party leadership and the way they mishandled the whole business so they didn't vote that year.

Gotta hand it to Illinois Republicans. Where else can you get driven from nomination that you've won because you wanted to have sex with your own wife? (OK, admittedly kinky sex--- but with his own wife.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-31, 02:32:58
Gotta hand it to Illinois Republicans. Where else can you get driven from nomination that you've won because you wanted to have sex with your own wife? (OK, admittedly kinky sex--- but with his own wife.)

If only that was the end of the story.


Quote
On June 22, 2004, after receiving a report from the referee, Judge Schnider released the files that were deemed consistent with the interests of Ryan's young child. In those files, Jeri Ryan alleged that Jack Ryan had wanted her to perform sexual acts with him in public in sex clubs in New York, New Orleans, and Paris, although no sex occurred. Jeri Ryan described one as "a bizarre club with cages, whips and other apparatus hanging from the ceiling."
That won't fly in the party that tries to claim all "moral" issues.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-01-31, 02:56:27
Nobody ever said it wasn't a wee bit strange. Well, on second thought Jack Ryan tried to say there was nothing embarrassing in the documents--- before the whole thing blew open and we could see just how embarrassing it really was. Jack Ryan was doomed from that moment. The Republican Party might still have salvaged the election if they had shown just a little bit of sense in choosing the replacement-- but sadly, it was not to be. They made a choice that fooled no one and angered doggone near everyone.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-01-31, 06:45:08
That won't fly in the party that tries to claim all "moral" issues.

As usual, you "read" only to pick out bits and pieces that "support" your partisan view, Sang. But that's how you roll!

Isn't Sandoval your state's governor? (A little frustrating, no? :) )
————————————————————————————————————————
The Republican Party might still have salvaged the election if they had […a time machine!]

No, mjm, there was no chance of success in a general election with another candidate at that late date…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-02-01, 16:18:54
The Republican Party might still have salvaged the election if they had shown just a little bit of sense in choosing the replacement-- but sadly, it was not to be. They made a choice that fooled no one and angered doggone near everyone.

Keyes sounds real political genius in that election. He tried to claim Jesus Christ wouldn't vote for Obama (way to alienate African American churchs) and Mary Cheney was selfish hedonist for being a lesbian and therefore reduce support from Republican top brass. I don't feel like spending a lot of time looking into the gory details, but even a quick glance at Wikipedia tells me he was doomed from the get-go.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-02-01, 18:23:20
Well---- Jesus probably wouldn't vote for Obama. Or his opponent, for that matter. Jesus is King of kings and Lord most high--- why would He vote for lesser people to challenge Him?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-02-01, 20:46:47
Being He already knows the outcome (all of them actually) why would He bother?

The   (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/satan003.gif)   devil couldn't tempt Him, do you think a lowly      (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/RaccoonStrut.gif)    demonrat  could?
   (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-02-02, 04:48:26
Well---- Jesus probably wouldn't vote for Obama.

Well if you remember, he didn't have much in way of positive feedback for either the Pharisees nor Sadducees. So why he have any for the Democrats and Republicans.
Being He already knows the outcome (all of them actually) why would He bother?

If he would or not might be a interesting discussion. He certainly knew he was going to be crucified, but it wouldn't have any special divine power to realize the religious authorities were moving against him. Within the Bible itself, there are indications that Jesus was not omniscient. Matthew 24:36, Jesus indicated that he didn't know when the Second Coming would be. At times, he incorrectly said it would during the lifetime of his contemporary believers. He didn't know that Lazarus had died and had to be told. I'm sure there are other examples, and apologetics for them.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-02-02, 13:10:09
Jaybro 20:20
"Father, Why do they deal in the batshit crazy?"
"Because they know not better, my son."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-02-03, 20:41:58

Well---- Jesus probably wouldn't vote for Obama.

Well if you remember, he didn't have much in way of positive feedback for either the Pharisees nor Sadducees. So why he have any for the Democrats and Republicans.

Yeah, not much of turn the other cheek, judge not, love thy neighbour etc. going around in america's political caste. Especially the overtly christian ones. Then again, they follow Republican Jesus, not the biblical one ( who would probably go with Sanders if he absolutely had to pick one ).
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-02-03, 23:10:11
Ongoing American Saga.
This is not not a saga, it's a plague.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-02-04, 03:52:17

Ongoing American Saga.
This is not not a saga, it's a plague.


To each their own. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/firefart.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-02-04, 22:07:25
Then again, they follow Republican Jesus, not the biblical one

And it matters!?!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-02-05, 04:08:50
Yes it matters as they are fundamental nutjobs and could damage the world.  :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-02-24, 20:05:51
How right you are Sir Howie. How's this for bad news.
From the New York Times.
Quote
Nearly three-quarters of Republicans now favor sending ground troops into combat against the Islamic State, according to a CBS News poll last week. And in Iowa and South Carolina, two early-voting states, Republicans said military action against the group was, alongside economic matters, the most important issue in the 2016 election, according to an NBC survey released last week.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/us/politics/foreign-policy-ascends-as-issue-for-republican-presidential-contenders.html
(http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/us/politics/foreign-policy-ascends-as-issue-for-republican-presidential-contenders.html)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-02-25, 18:57:41
I support the use of low-grade, low-yield (nothing more than say 500 megatons)  Nuclear weapons in the Middle East against ISIS & their clones. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/firefart.gif)

Boots on the ground post-attack to work the oil rigs, supply dirty, non-sterile gauze pads to ISIS women to use on their poor lil burnt boys, & to monitor radium contamination only.   (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-02-25, 21:24:44
I am groaning at the cirus that passes for an election over there. That so many red necks, oops, Republican party storm troopers are so keen on gung-ho and wars only adds to the joke. Anyway they have a problem with the minority lots and won't win. As for the Democrats they will as there isn't any great choice for Americans so stuck with what we are excusing as the lesser of two evils. With the ever increasing debt the only way out will be when the whole thing collapses and then a third way. Revolution No2 by the people this time not the money lot like the first one.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-02-25, 21:36:10
How to turn a discussion into a clown show. Good work, Sir!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-02-26, 03:30:38
Good work, Sir!

Indeed it is, but he's limited in his options on these forums. So I'll go ahead and book his comedy act on the Strip and we'll make millions together :yes: Of course, I'll take care the airline reservations and hire a limo to pick him up from the airport. I'm thinking an SUV-type would be a good choice so he gets a chance to stretch his legs after such a long flight. No need to thank me, Howie. I consider it an investment.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-02-26, 09:20:46
Indeed it is, but he's limited in his options on these forums

Do you mean, he has to speak English…? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-02-26, 11:01:42
From somebody's point of view, everybody else sounds goofy.

From the point of view of an Englishman, Americans don't really speak English.

From an American point of view, Scotsmen sound funny.

Would you like to learn to speak Australian?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG0v9tZStAk[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-03-03, 20:37:27
So, you think Hillary can be trusted.........you want Hillary (Billary) to be the most powerful person in office, & lead the United States of America   ----  US!!??

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5Wo5jXVYjk[/VIDEO]


Riiiiiiiiiiight....
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-03-04, 11:59:10
The thing that bothers me most about a Clinton run for the White House is that, if Hillary looks like she wins the Democrat nomination, the Republicans can be counted on to make the worst choice possible in an attempt to defeat her.

Look for a Sarah Palin Republican nomination if Hillary gets the Democrat nod.... and if that happens, God help us all.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-04, 20:49:53
Hillary has problems.
Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) — The email practices of Hillary Rodham Clinton, who used a private account exclusively for official business when she was secretary of state, grew more intriguing with the disclosure Wednesday that the computer server she used traced back to her family's New York home, according to Internet records reviewed by The Associated Press.

The unusual practice of a Cabinet-level official running her own email server would have given Clinton — who is expected to run for president in the 2016 campaign — significant control over limiting access to her message archives.

It also would complicate the State Department's legal responsibilities in finding and turning over official emails in response to any investigations, lawsuits or public records requests. The department would be the position of accepting Clinton's assurances she was surrendering everything required that was in her control.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/b78ba433af3a45209668f745158d994c/clinton-ran-homebrew-computer-system-official-emails (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/b78ba433af3a45209668f745158d994c/clinton-ran-homebrew-computer-system-official-emails)

Whatever Hillary does, Palin isn not going to be the Republican candidate. Why?
1. The Republicans who matter don't want her.
2. Speaking fees. "Sarah Palin will speak at West Hills College in Lemoore, Calif. this May, reports ABC Local News -- and she'll receive $115,000 to do so."

Ex pols can make a fortune speaking.
Quote
President Reagan once got $2 million from a Japanese manufacturing company for two 20-minute speeches. Bill Clinton collected some $40 million in speaking fees during the six years following his presidency. And George W. Bush told reporters he expected to make a "ridiculous" amount of money on the speaker's circuit when he left office.
That from http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/sarah-palin-earned-estimated-12-million-july/story?id=10352437 (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/sarah-palin-earned-estimated-12-million-july/story?id=10352437)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-03-04, 23:10:11
[glow=black,2,300]Foreign governments gave millions to foundation while Clinton was at State Dept.[/glow]


Quote from:      WASHINGTON POST     http://wapo.st/18QZehN    
The Clinton Foundation accepted millions of dollars from seven foreign governments during Hillary Rodham Clinton’s tenure as secretary of state, including one donation that violated its ethics agreement with the Obama administration, foundation officials disclosed Wednesday......continued (http://wapo.st/18QZehN)


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTCu6-_uW0s[/VIDEO]


(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/can-of-worms.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/busted.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/can-of-worms.gif)

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-03-04, 23:46:33
[glow=black,2,300]Benghazi .......... We Will Never Forget .......... Hillary Will Wish We Did![/glow]

[shadow=grey,right]eMAILS.......eMAILS.......eMAILS[/shadow]

[shadow=grey,right]And she's got the balls to want to be President....................Riiiiiiiight[/shadow]



(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FpGPtMhe.jpg&hash=156edb7040c8cdcfc83a6ca724a03447" rel="cached" data-hash="156edb7040c8cdcfc83a6ca724a03447" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://imgur.com/pGPtMhe.jpg)
What difference does it make, well Hillary........it makes a BIG, BIG difference.


Quote

WASHINGTON – State Department emails released through a lawsuit by Judicial Watch show then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton knew while the Sept. 11, 2012, attack on the U.S. compound in Benghazi was under way that it was being carried out by terrorists.

Clinton blamed the attack on “rage and violence over an awful Internet video” when she spoke at a ceremony at Andrews Air Force Base on Sept. 14, 2014, as the remains of the four Americans, including Ambassador Christopher Stevens, were returned to the United States.

The emails were made public Thursday by the Washington, D.C., legal watchdog group.

“These emails leave no doubt that Hillary Clinton’s closest advisers knew the truth about the Benghazi attack from almost the moment it happened,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton.

“And it is inescapable that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton knowingly lied when she planted the false story about ‘inflammatory’ material being posted on the Internet,’” Fitton said.

He said the “contempt for the public’s right to know is evidenced not only in these documents, but also in the fact that we had to file a lawsuit in federal court to obtain them.”

“The Obama gang’s cover-up continues to unravel, despite its unlawful secrecy and continued slow-rolling of information,” Fitton said. “Congress, if it ever decides to do its job, cannot act soon enough to put Hillary Clinton, Cheryl Mills and every other official in these emails under oath.”

Fitton criticized the current House Select Committee investigation on Benghazi headed by Rep. Trey Gowdy, R- S.C.

“Never once has Gowdy or the House Select Committee asked Judicial Watch to turn over the many bombshell documents Judicial Watch has obtained from the Obama administration by FOIA request, “ Fitton told WND.

“I would have thought a serious congressional investigation into Benghazi would have started with the documents we had, since Judicial Watch has led in exposing the White House cover-up,” he said.

On Sept. 11, 2012, at 4:07 p.m. EST, as the Benghazi attack was going on, Maria Sand, then a special assistant to Clinton, forwarded an email from the State Department’s Operations Center titled, “U.S. Diplomatic Mission in Benghazi is Under Attack,” to Cheryl Mills, then chief-of staff to Secretary Clinton, as well as Jacob Sullivan, then-deputy chief-of-staff for policy, Joseph McManus, then-Hillary Clinton’s executive assistant, and other special assistants in Clinton’s office.

The email read:

    The Regional Security Officer reports the diplomatic mission is under attack. Tripoli reports approximately 20 armed people fired shots; explosions have been heard as well. Ambassador Stevens, who is currently in Benghazi, and four COM [Chief of Mission] personnel are in the compound safe haven. The 17th of February militia is providing security support.

Then, at 4:38 p.m. Eastern, State Department Foreign Service Officer Lawrence Randolph forwarded Mills, Sullivan and McManus an email from Scott Bultrowicz, the former director of the Diplomatic Security Service, one of four senior State Department officials who was ousted in December 2012 after the publication of the State Department’s Advisor Review Board final report of the Benghazi attack.

With the subject line “Attack on Benghazi,” it read:


    DSCC [Diplomatic Security Command Center] received a phone call from [REDACTED] in Benghazi, Libya initially stating that 15 armed individuals were attacking the compound and trying to gain entrance. The Ambassador is present in Benghazi and currently is barricaded within the compound. There are no injuries at this time and it is unknown what the intent of the attackers is. At approximately 1600 DSCC received word from Benghazi that individuals had entered the compound. At 1614 RSO advised the Libyans had set fire to various buildings in the area, possibly the building that houses the Ambassador [REDACTED] is responding and taking fire.

Nearly seven hours later, at 12:04 a.m. on Sept. 12, Randolph sent an email with the subject line “FW: Update 3: Benghazi Shelter Location “Also Under Attack,” to Mills, Sullivan and McManus that had several updates about the Benghazi attack:

    I just called Ops and they said the DS command center is reporting that the compound is under attack again. I am about to reach out to the DS Command Center.

The email also contains a chain of earlier email updates:

    Sept. 11, 2012, at 11:57 p.m. EST. Email: “(SBU) DS Command reports the current shelter location for COM personnel in Benghazi is under mortar fire. There are reports of injuries to COM staff.”

    Sept. 11, 2012, 6:06 p.m. EST. (Subject: “Update 2: Ansar al-Sharia Claims Responsibility for Benghazi Attack (SBU): “(SBU) Embassy Tripoli reports the group claimed responsibility on Facebook and Twitter and call for an attack on Embassy Tripoli”

    Sept. 11, 2012, 4:54 p.m. EST: “Embassy Tripoli reports the firing at the U.S. Diplomatic Mission in Benghazi has stopped and the compound has been cleared. A response team is on site to locate COM personnel.”

The State Department emails released Thursday by Judicial Watch reveal the first official confirmation of the death of Ambassador Stevens.

On Sept. 12, 2012, at 3:22 a.m. EST, Senior Watch Officer Andrew Veprek forwarded an email to numerous State Department officials, which was later forwarded to Mills and McManus, with the subject line “Death of Ambassador Stevens in Benghazi.”

It read:

    Embassy Tripoli confirms the death of Ambassador John C. (Chris) Stevens in Benghazi. His body has been recovered and is at the airport in Benghazi.

Two hours later, McManus forwarded the news of Ambassador Stevens’ death to officials in the State Department Legislative Affairs office with instructions not to “forward to anyone at this point.”

Despite her three top staff members being informed that a terrorist group had claimed credit for the attack, Clinton, issued an official statement, also produced to Judicial Watch, claiming the attack may have been “a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet.”

http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/hillary-knew-emails-during-benghazi-attack-reported-terrorism/#8usK2WrEf80pc9X5.99 (http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/hillary-knew-emails-during-benghazi-attack-reported-terrorism/#8usK2WrEf80pc9X5.99)



And the beat goes on ... and on ... and on ..... and will continue to go on until
America knows everything she did, when she did it, & why she did it!




Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-03-05, 00:16:52
[glow=black,2,300]BREAKING NEWS:[/glow]

[glow=green,2,300]House committee subpoenas e-mails from  ALL Clinton’s account(s)[/glow]


Quote from:      WASHINGTON POST       http://wapo.st/1wWwk5c  
A House investigative committee issued subpoenas late Wednesday afternoon to the State Department, seeking a deeper look into former secretary of state Hillary Rodham Clinton’s nearly exclusive use of personal e-mails to do her official business during her tenure, the committee confirmed Wednesday.

The House Select Committee on Benghazi, which first discovered Clinton’s use of a personal e-mail based on a home server in its inquiry into a fatal 2012 terrorist attack on a U.S. diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, is asking for all e-mails related to the attack from all Clintonemail.com accounts and any other staff members’ personal accounts.

“The Select Committee on Benghazi today issued subpoenas for all communications of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton related to Libya and to the State Department for other individuals who have information pertinent to the investigation,” according to a statement by committee spokesman Jamal Ware. “The Committee also has issued preservation letters to internet firms informing them of their legal obligation to protect all relevant documents.”.......... continued (http://wapo.st/1wWwk5c)


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIvTzH4S_yE[/VIDEO]



Hillary will be like a goose being sucked through a jet engine!  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)


http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-clinton-emails-subpoena-20150304-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-clinton-emails-subpoena-20150304-story.html)

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/04/benghazi-terror-attack-probe-wants-access-to-hillary-clinton-emails-from-private-server/ (http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/04/benghazi-terror-attack-probe-wants-access-to-hillary-clinton-emails-from-private-server/)


http://www.ibtimes.com/hillary-clinton-e-mails-subpoenaed-house-committee-investigating-benghazi-1836504 (http://www.ibtimes.com/hillary-clinton-e-mails-subpoenaed-house-committee-investigating-benghazi-1836504)

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Benghazi+terror+attack+probe+subpoena+access+Hillary+Clinton+emails/10861985/story.html (http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Benghazi+terror+attack+probe+subpoena+access+Hillary+Clinton+emails/10861985/story.html)

http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/7/71/414201/benghazi-panel-issue-subpoenas-hillary-clinton-emails (http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/7/71/414201/benghazi-panel-issue-subpoenas-hillary-clinton-emails)


http://www.calgaryherald.com/Benghazi+terror+attack+probe+subpoena+access+Hillary+Clinton+emails/10861985/story.html (http://www.calgaryherald.com/Benghazi+terror+attack+probe+subpoena+access+Hillary+Clinton+emails/10861985/story.html)

"It doesn't matter if the server was in Foggy Bottom, Chappaqua, or Bora-Bora," House Speaker John Boehner said. "The Benghazi Select Committee needs to see all of these emails, because the American people deserve all of the facts."



Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-03-05, 00:58:45

Hillary has problems.


No Jim, [glow=blue,2,300]Hillary's in deep, deep, deep stank [/glow] .......... getting deeper by the minute!

Couldn't happen to a finer skank  'Lady'  ........ I bet she's thinkin' right about now .... Karma sux, don't it!  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/biglaugh023.gif)

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FmAlI1jU.png&hash=38a0f6795a1f0d30bb648071e2df3a4d" rel="cached" data-hash="38a0f6795a1f0d30bb648071e2df3a4d" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/mAlI1jU.png)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-05, 02:36:45
Whatever side Americans are on in the Democrats and Republican matter it did not give a very good PR to the world on the visit from that mouth from Tel Aviv.  Many sensible people over there will be unhappy at the portrayal to the world and one cannot help but feel for them.

Maybe the Tel Aviv storm trooper could be a little bit more honest about israeli H bombs as a break from accusing Iran.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-05, 22:24:39
Israel is in a precarious position in the region, but Netanyahu is over the top. Hopefully that Republican stunt  won't work in Netanyahu's election bid. He's favored by 44% of the electorate, just under Obama's 49%. He gained a couple of points after his visit, but that will evaporate.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-06, 02:37:28
Totally agree and that Israeli big headed mouth of a PM is a great advert for militant Zionism. I think it was quite disrespectful using another country that not only supports whoever is in power in Israel but funds it to exist. Totally disgusting how he treated America it's Head of State and it's own political system. Apart from the disrespect but the arrogant using and that the idiots on the Hill especially Republicans played a full part in it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-03-06, 08:52:42
“The Select Committee on Benghazi today issued subpoenas for all communications of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton related to Libya and to the State Department for other individuals who have information pertinent to the investigation,” according to a statement by committee spokesman Jamal Ware. “The Committee also has issued preservation letters to internet firms informing them of their legal obligation to protect all relevant documents.”..........

Translation: The GOP already knows it has no one that win the election.  Really, who doesn't think this is political? But it's a bad strategy. What will be their other move? Play up issues that "energize" the Republican base, but mean nothing to about 60% of the rest of the electorate and get other groups as energized as their base? The result, of course will be defeat. In a battle between Jeb and Hilary, Jeb does have a chance, despite the idiocy of his Republican colleagues. (using Benghazi as an election issue? Are they fucking serious?) But that all depends on his ability to survive the GOP primaries, which sane Republicans haven't in recent years (Witness Romney, he all but had multiple personality disorder on the issues. McCain, let's just flush the American auto industry down the drain. Yeah, that will be real good for the economy, dimshit. Palin? Where does one start?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-06, 18:38:10
Jeb

Just another Bush.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F1454114%2Fthumbs%2Fo-PROJECT-BUSH-570.jpg%3F2&hash=c57725186af25c887b7ebf57f529bb82" rel="cached" data-hash="c57725186af25c887b7ebf57f529bb82" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1454114/thumbs/o-PROJECT-BUSH-570.jpg?2)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-07, 04:00:18
Well I am bushed at that spread.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-11, 21:46:29
I don't expect the Republicans to win unless they scan the mental hospitals. Hilary Clinton on th the other side, hhhhm. I seen a reference to another Democrat woman (her name escapes me) as being popular. Clinton would be one bossy and one neb of a painful woman.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-03-11, 21:50:47
The electoral farce will never end until politicians are not hanged.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-12, 10:29:37
Our only hope is if Canada takes us in as The Southern Province.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-03-13, 01:25:01

I don't expect the Republicans to win unless they scan the mental hospitals. Hilary Clinton on th the other side, hhhhm. I seen a reference to another Democrat woman (her name escapes me) as being popular. Clinton would be one bossy and one neb of a painful woman.


Feast yer eyes:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=798AS1XcAkQ[/VIDEO]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-14, 05:02:19
I did laugh earlier at Sanguinemoon rabbiting on about me as a limited corner type person. Thought it especially amusing considering he has blinkers himself in thinking the land of nut jobs is above being challenged in it's imperial pomposity!

Maybe at some time in history the political system in the ex-colonies was trying to serve the people - well at least in principle but it no longer works as intended. The 2 giants have got the damn thing so carved up then any other group might as well go to sleep. Unlimited money spent by BOTH sides. Corporate big money barons on BOTH sides and at the last Presidential I think the Democrats outdid the nutty republicans. The system no longer serves the wider population hence just over 50% voting at the last Hill election. If you are comfortable and a reasonable income then you will smugly reckon things are not really that bad in the system but for the tens of millions, yes note the number that is not the case and between them and the very deep and bad racial matters it illustrates the same system only benefits the cumfy folk.

Time and time people quote the Constitution but why should they need to considering what it laid down? Many have to literally fight for their basic rights, privacy on the phone, mobile phone, net or whatever. The government very subtly can by pas that same constitution through it's spy agencies like especially the NSA.  In a sense I can feel for all those who have been brought up with things passed on to them about the greatness, freedoms and stuff then if they do not have much money they are left to rot and none more so than the legions of black people. To those of us fortunate to live in the real world the party conventions are a laugh and not much morte than funny if meant to be serious politics. It is just a big damn fun party and takes no real note of the racial badness nor the plight of millions of poorer Americans.

I have oft said that the Democrats are the lesser of two evils as the 2 big boys are the only ones allowed a look in and my comments have been a bit watered down as some of the things Obama has done have been more than GW Bush did! A complete overhaul is needed for the present day and to deal with the vast poor, under-privileged the sectioning of the blacks and the whole matter of representation.  Less spent on the military machine that puts big dollars in the military corporate industry and kills many young Americans who do not have the education or skills so head for the army.  There are many millions of decent, hard working and family people over there who are being ripped off not only by the behind-the-scenes corporate string pullers but as system that is not serving the whole country.  :(

Reducing the nonsense of spending half the world's military bill could face the challenge of the mass numbers of poor and losing out and i think it is a crying shame that so many decents are being served by a procedure that is far from what those founders wanted and was never like it is today .
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-14, 11:50:58
There are many millions of decent, hard working and family people over there who are being ripped off not only by the behind-the-scenes corporate string pullers but as system that is not serving the whole country.   :(

Sir Howie, you're the king of generalities and innuendo, and I'm sure that you're right to some extent. I'm retired, own a house and a car and have $$$$$.$$ in the bank and investments. That's not true of all Americans, but it's also not true of all Brits, either.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fandelino.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F01%2Fking-obama.jpg&hash=c8e0a245624afa1df17f5cdefe4bed15" rel="cached" data-hash="c8e0a245624afa1df17f5cdefe4bed15" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://andelino.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/king-obama.jpg)

Please be more specific.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-14, 18:58:38
I deliberatley was being generally specific to save words. And to take the simplicity even further let me make this clear.

The comfortable off are generally superficially content because they are cumfy. That money is spent on being world imperialistic and which you cannot afford is ridiculous.I made it very clear and obvious that more effort should be made on the large numbers who are on the back burner. No homes, little money and struggling. No Welfare state so they just go on suffering and the country should be facing that instead of spending half the world military business bill. Your country is far more in control of the corporates which is as plain as the nose on your faces and just to acknowledge part of the failings is not good enough. Interfering across the world doing in any country that does not conform to your way of doing things and so on. Just look what is spent at elections by the big two and how does that help the poor and needy?  The racial question is so damn obvious and contradicts everything that the country is MEANT to stand for as well. Every time the obvious is shown the tendency is to try and body-swerve to somewhere else but nowhere bis more at the top of hypocrisy than the USA.

Being more specific is a cosy throw away really and that the large numbers of the poor and the picking on blacks by an increasing Police State mind is there for all to see. Poor or black in the land of the free and home of the brave make it very abundantly clear that if white and cumfy just ignore those two things.

Instead of marching all over the world then following that up by the money barons shows the flaws up even more.  Democracy? Don't make me laugh! The Democrats are the lesser of the two evils and full democracy is then restricted because the money men will decide what is happening not the voters.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-03-17, 23:05:33

I deliberatley was being generally specific to save words. And to take the simplicity even further let me make this clear.

The comfortable off are generally superficially content because they are cumfy. That money is spent on being world imperialistic and which you cannot afford is ridiculous.I made it very clear and obvious that more effort should be made on the large numbers who are on the back burner. No homes, little money and struggling. No Welfare state so they just go on suffering and the country should be facing that instead of spending half the world military business bill. Your country is far more in control of the corporates which is as plain as the nose on your faces and just to acknowledge part of the failings is not good enough. Interfering across the world doing in any country that does not conform to your way of doing things and so on. Just look what is spent at elections by the big two and how does that help the poor and needy?  The racial question is so damn obvious and contradicts everything that the country is MEANT to stand for as well. Every time the obvious is shown the tendency is to try and body-swerve to somewhere else but nowhere bis more at the top of hypocrisy than the USA.

Being more specific is a cosy throw away really and that the large numbers of the poor and the picking on blacks by an increasing Police State mind is there for all to see. Poor or black in the land of the free and home of the brave make it very abundantly clear that if white and cumfy just ignore those two things.

Instead of marching all over the world then following that up by the money barons shows the flaws up even more.  Democracy? Don't make me laugh! The Democrats are the lesser of the two evils and full democracy is then restricted because the money men will decide what is happening not the voters.


RJ.....might I suggest..........come here, become a citizen, & at election time vote for those that see it your way, but until then, find yourself up in the cheap seats bawling your eyes out about things you have no control over whatsoever except to use your freedom of speech here so a few dozen people might read about your personal frustrations.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-03-18, 02:55:57
RJ.....might I suggest..........come here, become a citizen, & at election time vote for those that see it your way, but until then, find yourself up in the cheap seats bawling your eyes out about things you have no control over whatsoever except to use your freedom of speech here so a few dozen people might read about your personal frustrations.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/violin4qi3.gif)

But I thought the commie wanted to move to Russia since thing are so much better there? :confused:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-03-18, 04:30:01
But I thought the commie wanted to move to Russia since thing are so much better there?
Sang, he's no more a commie than I'm a Militiaman or you're a socialist… But he's less capable of expressing himself (and understanding others) than you or I. (Yes, I still worry about you… :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-18, 19:17:07
I will not accept the US Irish Marxist supporter invitation as coming from a wider democratic background would just be frustrating. You fit into that comfortable corner and can run about daft waving the flag, getting emotionally choked while the poor suffer and the blacks have a hellhole existence. The hard fact is that your present system no longer works due to the large numbers of the unfortunates and the lack of any capability of doing anything about it due to the control of the big 2 both corporate controlled.

As for the Presidenatial circus the carnival will be like all thos ebefore it. There will be great declarations of a new beginning a new direction and God bless America and the 40 million poor will still be there the 1,000,000 losing homes a year, 10,000 shot to death, trillions in debt, cause wars and confrontations globally, police still pumping a not need 5 or 6 bullets into people unarmed and so on.

I have a glaring frustration in that there are so many decnet people there but sigh and shut the door in the comfortable house as they know the system will ensure they are either spied on or unable to do anything.
:(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-19, 10:03:50
and the blacks have a hellhole existence.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fintellectualconservative.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fobm.jpg&hash=cc5bae5674af524560092dbf5f976c9a" rel="cached" data-hash="cc5bae5674af524560092dbf5f976c9a" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://intellectualconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/obm.jpg)

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cpag.org.uk%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fuploads%2FPinS2014cover_webwithborder.jpg&hash=3f9d114ec65c5438f23ab664db4dee79" rel="cached" data-hash="3f9d114ec65c5438f23ab664db4dee79" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/files/uploads/PinS2014cover_webwithborder.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-19, 21:48:56
You are keeping up the ex-colonists way of being unable to answer by dancing as is the usual. Scotland gets more from the Exchquer than it gives in taxes. Whole modern estates including the one I gave so much voluntary service in are excellent housing, rent subsidies, great welfare payments. The same places have multi tv's, usually satellite tv, Hackney Cab ranks (much dearer than the private taxis), pubs, betting shops. You never see badly dressed kids and one such area has two Mcdonalds. Interesting that jimbro jumps onto the leftist propaganda direction to try and not answer the problems in America which are an H of a lot worse than here. So between child allowance, rents paid, free house repairs (yep you read right), generous benefits used as an alternative to work rather than a safety valve all says much. OOver in the land of the free and home of the brave once you are out the loop you are a nothing so try and answer your own internals mess. Time after time that doesn't happen here and is unfortunately routine.He had beet watch as Sanguinemoon and Smiley will have him as a Socialist. For Smiley anyone outside the old Rockwell corner is a US danger!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-03-19, 21:51:58
 ???
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-20, 00:54:08
 :P
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-20, 15:23:43
The Two of You
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileyfaze.tk%2Fslides%2Ffriendsdrunk.gif&hash=5a4d194609954d1a8a8df234dea0e2d4" rel="cached" data-hash="5a4d194609954d1a8a8df234dea0e2d4" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://smileyfaze.tk/slides/friendsdrunk.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-20, 18:56:13
Nah. The difference is he thinks he is clever and tries to ignore an issue by waffling. When you consider the prime minister of that country he is in kind of explains much.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-03-21, 06:23:58
RJ, your Scots "paradise" reminds me of many a distopia I read when I was young…
One particular story (from the late '70s, I believe) was about time travel into the future. The "hero" invented and used his time machine to go hundreds of years into the future. He'd wanted to experience the marvels… Of course, he was quickly noticed and apprehended; and dealt with appropriately:
He had no useful skills or knowledge and no likelihood of ever being able to adjust to the society around him. But the government was not cruel; they gave him the best dole that would suit his circumstance.
They removed his eyelids to install the video (you can imagine the rest…) and installed him in a coffin-like container, wherein he'd "live" old Westerns — for as long as he lasted!
The tale ended with one of the technicians who performed the "installation" griping about this interloper getting such treatment when he, himself, would have to work for decades more before he qualified… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-03-21, 19:12:06

The Two of You
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileyfaze.tk%2Fslides%2Ffriendsdrunk.gif&hash=5a4d194609954d1a8a8df234dea0e2d4" rel="cached" data-hash="5a4d194609954d1a8a8df234dea0e2d4" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://smileyfaze.tk/slides/friendsdrunk.gif)

Are you somehow referring to rj and me in the same post?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-03-22, 01:17:10
ou are keeping up the ex-colonists way of being unable to answer by dancing as is the usual. Scotland gets more from the Exchquer than it gives in taxes. Whole modern estates including the one I gave so much voluntary service in are excellent housing, rent subsidies, great welfare payments

Welfare is a "poor" alternative to real economic advancement of the lower classes. To create those conditions you need an efficient government (good luck with that one) so the tax rate can low and still satisfy the government's obligations. You need physical and technological infrastructure that can support growth, an educated workforce, etc. Government assistance is is meant to be a temporary solution to situations such you lost your job in the recession, not lifelong or even a multigenerational lifestyle.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-03-22, 01:27:36

. Scotland gets more from the Exchquer than it gives in taxes.

Are you saying the Scots are a nation of spongers?
Are you recommending  this way of life to other countries?
Are you claiming such a situation is sustainable?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-22, 02:43:02
There needs to be a kindergarten section here for tt92. Maybe we should call the Irish spongers as they were not able even as an independent country able to look after themselves. They only got somewhere due to joining the EU (couldn't support themselves even after decades) and pushing the begging bowl to Europe and the EU. The bigger countries in the EU like Britain, France, Germany subsidise smaller places like Ireland. And even then the Irish messed up. There's no Celtic Tiger now it is more like a pussy cat. We in Britain had to give them a 7 billion pound loan so do try and use common sense. There are spongers everywhere so include your own place.  Do try and think first.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-03-22, 02:56:44
Answer the questions.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-22, 08:34:32
Are you saying the Scots are a nation of spongers?
Are you recommending  this way of life to other countries?
Are you claiming such a situation is sustainable?

1. I don't know.
2. I'm not sure.
3. Please explain that one.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-03-22, 08:38:55
Mr. Howie says
"Scotland gets more from the Exchquer than it gives in taxes. "
My three simple questions relate to that statement.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-03-22, 15:56:17

There needs to be a kindergarten section here for tt92. Maybe we should call the Irish spongers as they were not able even as an independent country able to look after themselves. They only got somewhere due to joining the EU (couldn't support themselves even after decades) and pushing the begging bowl to Europe and the EU. The bigger countries in the EU like Britain, France, Germany subsidise smaller places like Ireland. And even then the Irish messed up. There's no Celtic Tiger now it is more like a pussy cat. We in Britain had to give them a 7 billion pound loan so do try and use common sense. There are spongers everywhere so include your own place.  Do try and think first.

Uk Economic growth:

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tradingeconomics.com%2Fcharts%2Funited-kingdom-gdp-growth-annual.png%3Fs%3Dukgrybzy&hash=8bac118fe9aa8e4494a555fcf102d64c" rel="cached" data-hash="8bac118fe9aa8e4494a555fcf102d64c" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/united-kingdom-gdp-growth-annual.png?s=ukgrybzy)

Ireland Economic Growth:

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tradingeconomics.com%2Fcharts%2Fireland-gdp-growth-annual.png%3Fs%3Diegrpyoy&hash=e35e666fba4e89643292e8ed39715fbb" rel="cached" data-hash="e35e666fba4e89643292e8ed39715fbb" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/ireland-gdp-growth-annual.png?s=iegrpyoy)

Ireland had a bad year in 2012 and the first half of 2013, but Ireland's per capita GDP and annual GDP growth both outstrip that of the UK. But you're mired in the past, gloating about impoverished Ireland of yesterday while  neglecting to mention it was made that way through conquest and exploitation by Britain. Is "look after" the new politically correct term for that?

Ireland's done amazing things and it's breaking your poor little Orange heart. At least you can parade once a year to celebrate a battle centuries ago that put a gay Dutch prince on British throne, if that helps.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-22, 17:45:17
One wonders what all of this has to do with the 2016 elections.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/avs/avatar_35_1393905738.png)
Allegations, allegations, allegations. Wikipedia...
Quote
Allegations of homosexuality...
During the 1690s, rumours grew of William's alleged homosexual inclinations and led to the publication of many satirical pamphlets by his Jacobite detractors. He did have several close, male associates, including two Dutch courtiers to whom he granted English titles: Hans Willem Bentinck became Earl of Portland, and Arnold Joost van Keppel was created Earl of Albemarle. These relationships with male friends, and his apparent lack of more than one mistress, led William's enemies to suggest that he might prefer homosexual relationships. William's modern biographers, however, still disagree on the veracity of these allegations, with many contending that they were just figments of his enemies' imaginations, and others suggesting there may have been some truth to the rumours.
Bentinck's closeness to William did arouse jealousies in the Royal Court at the time, but most modern historians doubt that there was a homosexual element in their relationship. William's young protege, Keppel, aroused more gossip and suspicion, being 20 years William's junior and strikingly handsome, and having risen from being a royal page to an earldom with some ease. Portland wrote to William in 1697 that "the kindness which your Majesty has for a young man, and the way in which you seem to authorise his liberties ... make the world say things I am ashamed to hear". This, he said, was "tarnishing a reputation which has never before been subject to such accusations". William tersely dismissed these suggestions, however, saying, "It seems to me very extraordinary that it should be impossible to have esteem and regard for a young man without it being criminal."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-22, 23:55:52
Sanguinemoon to accuse me of gloating on the Ireland of the past is so juvenile whilst at the same time says much about your own no doubt family tree. In practicality, Ireland was completely unable to do much about itself for many decades after independence and that IS factual. That is why the country joined the EU so that like other wee countries it could get access to the begging bowl so that is hardly principled is it? My country through what we pay into Europe was helping your homeland and it is about time you took notice of that.I have been in the Irish Republic when it went belly up and who caused that? - the Irish themselves. Unfinished buildings with empty cranes on them, rows of half built homes on housing estates, public employees having salaries chopped around 25%. Ireland was modernised by Europe and could not do it themselves. And now even more recently as I said and you ignored they got a 7 billion loan from the UK at a reasonable rate.

I am glad that Southern Ireland did improve but it was thanks to money from elsewhere and from here and you studiously ignore the practical side replacing this by a silly emotional bleat.  Meanwhile jimbro has a point on the deviation in the thread but he is a past master at the same direction! I do feel sorry for ex-colonist as there are only two parties there to "represent" and that is to be kind, unfortunate.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-03-23, 01:18:54
Belly up? There's a big difference between a sick man and a dead one. Now growth has resumed and apparently is apparently outpacing that of the UK, AGAIN! 7 billion? Go ahead, gloat about small loan.
. Unfinished buildings with empty cranes on them, rows of half built homes on housing estates,

Yup, sounds like what happened to Las Vegas. In LV our economic woes stemmed from a bubble burst in the real estate sector, just like in Ireland. But the recession is over and the construction cranes are back to work. A couple bad years doesn't mean the country died, Howie.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-23, 20:34:37
And now even more recently as I said and you ignored they got a 7 billion loan from the UK at a reasonable rate.

International finance is beyond me, but the US borrows (largely from China), the UK borrows, Scotland borrows, Russia borrows and China borrows, so it should be no surprise that Ireland borrows.

Please don't try to explain any of this to me. It won't help.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-03-23, 23:19:12

And now even more recently as I said and you ignored they got a 7 billion loan from the UK at a reasonable rate.

International finance is beyond me, but the US borrows (largely from China), the UK borrows, Scotland borrows, Russia borrows and China borrows, so it should be no surprise that Ireland borrows.

Please don't try to explain any of this to me. It won't help.

Would it help if someone who spoke English tried to explain it?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-03-25, 00:58:29
Please don't try to explain any of this to me. It won't help.

There are some who call fiat currency the banking equivalent of everybody getting by by taking in someone else's laundry… :)

(They're usually the ones who then say that means bye bye to a stable economy…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-03-25, 01:21:12
The explanation is far simpler than discussing the pros and cons of fiat currency. Howie's just got this bizarre anti-Irish streak and he'll use anything he can against the country.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-25, 03:54:29

Talk about ignorance?!
Anyway to the point Sanguinemoon.  I would say this. Many moons ago in the previous Opera Forum I actually complimented Southern Ireland for at last throwing off the yoke of the black dressed men and widened it's political and democratic structure. My passing criticism today is because it was the Irish themselves who done in their own economy and situation. In the past I have in my complimenting said that they had got out of a historical straight jacket and vastly different from what it used to be over the decades. You choose to ignore this because it does not suit your closed Irish-American mind and though I would pat Ireland on the general back I am not ignoring their own self created and unfortunate mess. It is vastly different in many ways and more democratic than that place across the pond. As a wee boy I can recall a day trip pver the Border and women with shalws  and poverty and an envy at prices over the Border. Today it is modern, educated and freer of the useless interference and nasty control of the Church.

So because I comment on the way they went bonkers over the Celtic Tiger stuff I am put into a corner?? It is not just a case of ignoring what I previously said positively about the South so do try and be a bit more sensible. Ireland has moved on from the Sanguinemoon emotional daftness of the past and good for that. GB and Eire are closer and have better relations and well may that continue. As for tt92 he craftily goes silent on his roots before Australia.......
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-03-25, 05:51:04

. As for tt92 he craftily goes silent on his roots before Australia.......

We all can see that this sentence is meaningless.
For the record, and for those of us who care, when you wrote this sentence, did you actually mean anything?
If so, could you try to re-state it in a way that would mean something to somebody?
Anybody?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-03-25, 07:08:13
tt92, would you please give me the entire history of your genome, so that I can know if you're trustworthy… Or give me half, and I'll be half-satisfied. :)
There's a little more, that almost everyone else understands: People in Glasgow (…specially, those who've never reproduced) are wildly against — everything that they couldn't do, when they were young!
Yes, that sounds stupid; and it likely is… But — there it is!

Howie is who he is; but he won't be for much longer. (Likewise, me…)

Can we discuss the Fate of the World? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-03-25, 07:41:07
First, there was Adam.
I believe he had the full set of DNA.
Then there was Eve.
Much less relevant, since she had only a rib's worth, and it was pure Adam anyway.
Then there were some unexplained and inexplicable incestuous couplings in the dark recesses of the local caves for generations, stirring up and remixing the same genetic sludge that we all share, and then there was me.
Trustworthy enough?
Allowances must be made for the Scots.
Most go to Primary School, where they are taught a language that resembles, in many respects, English. It is sufficient for one Scot to converse with another Scot, but any attempt to write it on paper results in gibberish.
Most Scots then go on to Secondary School where attempts are made to teach them a form of written English. A high proportion of these tender innocents quickly realise the enormity of the task, (not least the amount of unlearning that must precede the new learning) and give up.
So we have a nation of unschooled individuals with unrealised potential, suitable for menial tasks but unable to express themselves.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-27, 00:50:50
You know fine well why you hide your ancestry. Anyway you did give me a laugh on an Aussie talking about speaking English. Strangulated would be a concise assessment.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-03-27, 01:15:42
If he has Irish ancestors or not, what does it matter? Is it something to be ashamed of? Why did you hijack this thread with such ignorance, anyway? It's ridiculous.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-03-27, 14:21:05

If he has Irish ancestors or not, what does it matter? Is it something to be ashamed of? Why did you hijack this thread with such ignorance, anyway? It's ridiculous.

What did you expect from His Imperious Majesty, Tsar Billy-Bob I. of the CSA? :left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-03-27, 14:55:03

If he has Irish ancestors or not, what does it matter? Is it something to be ashamed of? Why did you hijack this thread with such ignorance, anyway? It's ridiculous.


Well-- he HAD to. See, it's like this: When you're losing an argument because you haven't got anything meaningful to bring to the table, the surest way to side-track things is to call the opponent's ancestry into question. By implying that the opponent comes from less than pure stock-- and may in fact be on an inferior race-- you hope to get the discussion away from  whatever you were losing on and into something else.

This may work on folk who live in places-- like Australia, the United States and New Zealand, just to name a few--where intermarriage between different people groups has probably happened if the person you're calling out because of ancestry has relatives who have been there long enough.

My ancestry contains Scottish and American Indian for sure. My father's people have been here long enough that I'm 6th generation American-- that gives a lot of time for mixing with somebody else. I only know "for sure" to my Grandfather/Grandmother on that side. My mother's side---- well, that's a bit of a question. She was adopted when she was 5, and pulling any actual family history was a bit of a project. I have what little I have from debatable sources-- my aunt never being among the most truthful of story-tellers.

Kinda fits though. This thread is about American politics, and as we all know candidates for the presidency are not usually found among the most truthful of story-tellers. I expect some whoppers to be told from both sides and all candidates before this is said and done.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-03-27, 15:08:37

This may work on folk who live in places-- like Australia, the United States and New Zealand, just to name a few--where intermarriage between different people groups has probably happened if the person you're calling out because of ancestry has relatives who have been there long enough.

Absolutely nobody of european descent can seriously claim pure anything ( whatever 'pure' is supposed to mean here ). There were quite a few factors that mixed things up. A lot. Even Billy-Bob might have heard of some (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations) of (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire) them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Period).
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-03-27, 15:21:46
Did you hear about Craig Cobb, the neo-nazi white supremacist who found out on national television that he's 14 percent black? I wonder what a DNA test of Howie will reveal.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-03-27, 15:27:21

Did you hear about Craig Cobb, the neo-nazi white supremacist who found out on national television that he's 14 percent black? I wonder what a DNA test of Howie will reveal.

He probably won't like it. (http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/18/genetic-study-30-percent-white-british-dna-german-ancestry).
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-03-27, 19:48:19
I've read rj's drivel again.
I've missed something. Again.
I can't see anything that refers to Irish ancestry.
It is a puzzlement.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-28, 00:16:28
Drivel is your way of covering stupidity from down under.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-03-28, 01:03:32
Whereas a Howie is proud of his drivel and stupidity, both! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jseaton2311 on 2015-03-28, 17:02:55
A pompous blowhard named RJ
Wrote commentary (none too kind), I must say.
A Hielands xenophob for sure
And it seemed there no cure,
When they found his head was cranachan souffle. 
:knight:  :cheers:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-29, 03:40:42
Nice try Oakdale but an interesting way to cover your inabilities. Prefer it when you are occasionally sober then we can get an asnwer.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-03-29, 04:01:23
Prefer it when you are occasionally sober then we can get an asnwer.

You don't pose actual questions, RJ… And you certainly didn't ask one of me here. (Which is alright, since you don't have the ability or patience to read "asnwers".)

There is an inability that I sometimes wish I could "cover": Why can't I suffer fools gladly? :)

BTW: If you think you asked a question, either repeat it or link to its location.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-30, 01:01:12
I don't pose questions??

Thank goodness I am teetotal as that is an extra daft comment to keep me away.  :faint:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-03-30, 04:02:35
Then what was your question?
———————————————————
[edit]
It's been two days, and you can neither recall nor find it? :)
And you wonder that I can't take you seriously!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-31, 14:35:53
Then what was your question?

Quote from: Rjhowie
What is the sound of one hand clapping?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clipartbest.com%2Fcliparts%2Faie%2FojM%2FaieojMbi4.gif&hash=94f2ce1bc3979f1d42cfe56cacfc37c4" rel="cached" data-hash="94f2ce1bc3979f1d42cfe56cacfc37c4" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.clipartbest.com/cliparts/aie/ojM/aieojMbi4.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jseaton2311 on 2015-03-31, 17:47:13
What is the sound of one hand clapping?


The same as for two.   :knight:  :cheers:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-04-01, 17:59:47
Kinda hate to take a cheap shot, but this is---...

Well, it's sorta like this. I seem to recall reading of an Asian doctor who couldn't pronounce "L", and it always  came out sounding like "R".

According to this doctor, RJHowie suffers from Ed Zachary disease.

RJ's brand of monarchy "Rooks Ed Zachary rike" Marxism/Leninism/Stalinism socialism. It has ALL of the same characteristics that I expect to see in one of the socialist papers that got handed out back in the day when I worked in a union shop, and the local Marxist/Leninist/Stalinist contingent was trying to stir as much unrest as they possibly could among the ranks.

Ed Zachary.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-04-01, 21:57:40
Kinda hate to take a cheap shot, but this is---...

At Rj. No you don't!
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/avs/avatar_35_1393905738.png)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-04-03, 02:03:24
The cheap shots wouldn't be so bad if they were not often daft in themselves and there have been times the man from that dodgy police force city of Chicago has been caught out.  I have argued face to face with Communists and others who find a few big words to try and impress us all with! As for my "brand of monarchy" - eh?? Just shows what the average Joe in the ex-colonies really knows outside of duh and eh? Are you saying that the Monarchy I live in is something bad? We have a broader parliamentary system than you lot and a Head of state rating 80% - something impossible over the water. On top of that the population turns out in droves when the Queen goes over there, ha ha, you are brilliant mjsmsprt40. The man in my heading the great William Prince of Orange who became king William 3rd produced the British of Rights. That in itself turned out to be a influence on you lot when you decided to be ex-colonist. Don't bother with a thanks however but at least your founders were helped.

Even more strident monarchies in your blinkered view such as the one you had a wee dig at recently the old Russian one  is amusing. In the old opera Forum I actually stated that a leading US writer (with name) had intimated that the last Emperor was complimented by the US President for the gradual changes being made, increasing rights, industrial and agriculture growth and other advancements. You didn't answer that because you hadn't a clue. Some 70% f land was actually owned by the organised peasantry not as you would probably grasp  - the rich. Just shows what a bit education practice does in a land where they are taught they are the greatest. It was the same when i also mentioned that those posh and cumfy rich Yanks that met in Philadelphia actually discussed the idea of a European prince as Head of State.

Ach now laddie  don't you worry my friend it is not your fault maybe just the system!  :lol:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-04-03, 04:35:14
the great William Prince of Orange who became king William 3rd produced the British […?] of Rights […]

You mean (of course you would, were you an educated man…) the Scottish Claim of Rights… Not the British Bill of Rights (which, if you'd read it, will likely seem less than you think it is). The Claim, that allowed Scotland to give a lawyer's reason allowing William and Mary to be accepted as sovereigns — because James II had "abdicated".
Don't bother with a thanks however but at least your founders were helped.

We were, many of us, Englishmen who expected our rights as such to be respected. Our "sovereign" and his supposedly fair parliament disagreed… The rest is history.
Put another way, we helped ourselves! (You might have heard the phrase somewhere else, but your liturgy probably bungles it… :) )

I'm not sure with whom you're arguing about monarchies and other forms of government. Certainly, not me: I care for the rule of law, limited government and individual rights. Oh, and economic freedom — which matters nothing to you, a life-long government employee… These can be secured by any form of government, for a generation or two…

I can't say a presidential/separated powers/constitutional form of government like ours is the ideal. (Pigs should rightfully feel that bacon is not the ideal garnish…) What I do say is that the older forms don't suit us.
those posh and comfy rich Yanks that met in Philadelphia actually discussed the idea of a European prince as Head of State
Have you a source to support your contention?
If all you mean is that they referred to the offer of kingship to General George Washington — who gently refused it! (A little more of a man than your William, eh?) Even Georgie 3 admired him, for that! :)
——————————————————————
What i'd suggest is that you read Hal clement's short novel, Close to Critical.

But that's history, not TeeVee. How would you know? :) I mean, the difference?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-04-04, 01:10:51
Years back the BBC  did a documentary on the American Revolution and was provided in association with Times-News I think it was Oakdale. So I wasn't making something up even if it sounds odd but then the way you run the damn place is odd so shouldn't be a problem! It was also comfortable people money-wise who did the Boston tea baloney and the same series pointed out something I already knew. That point was that it was a minority that wanted the revolution and won it - rough a third and in the same rough terms a third were against it. The rest couldn't have cared a damn who ran the place. Large numbers of anti-revolution Americans had to flee or get burned out thus heading north for Canada. When you lot thought you would invade Canada in the early 1800's many of those that fought you were the same Americans forced out. They gave you a good kick on the backside!

Whatever great principles that were put out by the starters of the US have been completely lost in today's American society. It is money that runs the place now not the people. Every Presidential Election they stuff that a candidate comes out with will be a new age a new future and great direction. In practice that is a load of cobblers and the place just stumbles on with the people having less and less in the actual running of the place. Time after time lobby people and the politicians will move from one side to the other and it is all about money. When it comes to practical things like commercialism, agriculture, etc it is the big boys who get preference due to that floating between lobby and politician. A few years ago a government official responsible for rights was charged because the companies he was meant to be keeping an eye on were the same ones he had a stake in!  If you are a small company or a small farmer you are into a hiding because it is no longer a proper people democracy but a system of select pals. No small wonder that last election poll was so low.

Many have been brought up on the principles of the Revolution but have failed to see that the people no longer control the political system. Others have got round to sussing out they have been taken over and more power to them. Even an ordinary person wanting to stand for a position on that posh 'Hill would need well over a million dollars to be considered so what does that tell in practicality?? Years ago back in the 1950's I referred to President Eisenhower warning of the danger that corporates threatened the democracy of the nation (jimbro mentioned it in a later item on the Opera Forum think it was). My answer kind of says it all and what was lauded over two centuries ago has been overtaken by cosy money chums and the people treated like mugs. What you now have is not a reasonable capitalist system but one for the cosy political rich and the rest can suffer especially those not doing so well. Sad really.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-04-04, 01:31:11
[…] it was a minority that wanted the revolution and won it - rough a third and in the same rough terms a third were against it. The rest couldn't have cared a damn who ran the place.
You actually got some history (mostly) right! I'm impressed.
(I'm not so much ragging on you, RJ, as bemoaning your reliance on your telly for information…)

The rest of your post -as usual- focused on "the moneyed interests" — that's your schtick! I suppose it keeps you safely off the streets, which is probably a good thing for all concerned. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-04-05, 01:25:58
It doesn't matter a jot whether it is television, a book or a speech the principle IS the same and fine you know it boyo. You grudgingly have to admit whilst trying to make an excuse so neatly tried! Oh and as it happens I got a certificate at Senior Secondary School fir history anyway.  :D
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-04-05, 04:01:01
It doesn't matter a jot whether it is television, a book or a speech the principle IS the same and fine you know it boyo.

The principle is the same, but the interest is different! :)
Oh and as it happens I got a certificate at Senior Secondary School fir history anyway.   :D
Congratulations! But, that long ago, there was so much less history… Badda-bing!

Those who debated the Constitution obviously -and quite naturally- had the English Bill of Rights in mind; hence some of the differences.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-04-05, 04:20:42

I got a certificate at Senior Secondary School fir history anyway.  :D

I googled "fir history". Quite an interesting subject.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-04-05, 13:19:11
It doesn't matter a jot whether it is television, a book or a speech the principle IS the same and fine you know it boyo. You grudgingly have to admit whilst trying to make an excuse so neatly tried!

Sounds like something that could of been written by Dr. Seuss.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-04-06, 02:05:52
Well every person will not conjure up something out of hot air and will refer to a book, television, radio or film. Even when i mentioned a book and gave a link to the torture camp run by Yankland in 1945 that seen 900,000 German soldiers die it wass danced round. It is a great country over there for nut jobbing brains and shows up here!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-04-06, 07:25:33
What was that link, again?

And what was your point? That Americans committed atrocities (somewhat) equivalent to those of history's greatest villains — at least, in small effect; which makes those others "not so bad"!

Would you absolve Lenin, Stalin and Mao in order to castigate the U.S.? :)
I think you would.
(Did you lose a family member to America's lures, once upon a time?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-04-07, 03:14:04
If i find the link will intimate it here but it must still be in my starting thread so have a hunt.

Do I claim the USA is worse than people like Stalin, etc What a daft thing to say as in the past i have pointed out that anything that happened in the 3r Reich in WW2 was pale compared to what the Bolshevik crowd of evil gits did. They killed far more than the Nazis. But before you start going to excuse note this.

America was in the same war as us and fighting against evil politicians, high principles and such but what does it do in 1945 ? Along with the French have 900,000 German soldiers suffer and die in a vast death camp. So if a supposedly democratic country does t that is a principle? Duh. Mind you it was ludicrous that in fighting a racist dictatorship in Germany you separated black soldiers as the whites didn't want to fight with them! When i mentioned the book on that dreadful camp it was  body swerved and when i gave the link showing the beatings, treatment, etc again a dance followed. So producing links means damn all here.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-04-07, 04:07:24
If i find the link will intimate it here but it must still be in my starting thread so have a hunt.
No need, unless you want to re-read your own words… :)

(Google is my friend!) Other Loses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Losses) is the name of the book. And you, Howie, are as I've known for quite some while a very credulous cuss. :)
(You might read this review (https://www.nytimes.com/books/98/11/22/specials/ambrose-atrocities.html), if the Wiki page is too complicated… :) )

Now, sir: Do you remember that this thread's topic is our upcoming presidential election? (And that Ike isn't running…?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-04-07, 21:40:07
Rand Paul is expected to announce his candidacy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-04-08, 03:41:53
I sorta like Rand Paul (like I sorta liked his loony dad…). But to hear fellow conservatives applaud his presumption is akin to marvel at the tail-between-the-legs posture of the Republican party — facing a Hillary Clinton candidacy… :)

But to explain what I've just said would take quite a while and -just now- I don't have the time.

Suffice it to say (for the nonce) that Rand needs a couple of decades of "seasoning".

Cruz and Walker (of Wisconsin) are legitimate contenders, I think.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-04-08, 05:43:30
I don't think that anything substantial will change with the American (and many other) elections.
Elections turned some sort of Olympic games for the newly rich while the populace applauds. Roman circus was much better, at least they had a sense of spectacle and grandeur.

Icelanders are an healthy exception, they arrested their prime minister.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-04-08, 08:48:31
.....Rand needs a couple of decades of "seasoning".....


Hmmmmmmm.......

I think that would depend on how close he & his dad are.

From a quick biographical read on Rand, they were, & still are fairly close, though not exactly a clone of all his father's Libertarian views, Rand nevertheless was very active & individually outspoken from his fathers offices.

Having a parent in politics for quite a few years would amply supply a fair amount of "seasoning" via family life experiences, not to mention his own high profile successful Senate term....no?

Specializing in cataract surgery, glaucoma surgery LASIK surgery, & corneal transplant most probably would rate an above average intellect, which has to account for far more that our present BHO.

We also know where he was born.......for certain, & that he is a baptized, practicing, devout Christian.

That may be detrimental to him here on this forum, but in Presidential Politics, one seeking a positive National acceptance, that can't hurt a bit.

I'd say, at the very least, he rates a good hard look. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/Read%20the%20paper_smile28.gif)      (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/exitstageright.gif)






 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-04-08, 11:52:04
I've given him a good hard look: He's myopic!
Being able to "fix" the eyes of others, that they might see as well as they can, doesn't make him able to see better than anyone else!
His lack of experience would -at best- make him another Jimmy Carter. (You remember what happened, when he was president? :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-04-09, 00:27:07
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/hmm.gif) Carter??........(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/imthinkin6.gif) Carter???

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/hitqt9.gif)....... Ah yes, Jimmy Carter!!! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/Dance07.gif)

[glow=blue,2,300]Jimmy Carter [/glow] ......... The Peanut Farmer ....... The son of  Bessie Lillian Gordy-Carter, the wife of Rose, the brother of (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/firefart.gif) Billy :belch: .......

[glow=green,2,300]The SECOND WORST[/glow] (second only to BHO) [glow=green,2,300]President in all of our American History! [/glow](https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/Screamer02.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-04-09, 06:29:25
And look who cam after a damn actor and idiocy in high office. Says much too.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-04-09, 09:21:44

Icelanders are an healthy exception, they arrested their prime minister.

Hmm, Americans were even more strict in the past. They've simply shot some of their Presidents.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-04-09, 22:06:29


Icelanders are an healthy exception, they arrested their prime minister.

Hmm, Americans were even more strict in the past. They've simply shot some of their Presidents.


Well said krake... let's hope they do it again, instead shooting inoffensive citizens.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-04-13, 17:06:04
2016...It's comin' folks.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fl2.yimg.com%2Fbt%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2Fk3mhXLUrlVSRNsIkyjYIgQ--%2FYXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTMzMztweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz01MDA-%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmedia.zenfs.com%2Fen_us%2FNews%2Fucomics.com%2Fholb150410.gif&hash=3f288f55d2888eedbf287b8d0935f47b" rel="cached" data-hash="3f288f55d2888eedbf287b8d0935f47b" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/k3mhXLUrlVSRNsIkyjYIgQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTMzMztweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz01MDA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ucomics.com/holb150410.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: string on 2015-04-13, 19:19:13
Sarah against Hilary would be nice.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-04-13, 20:17:50
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNqsdog3.png&hash=8d15ff0621ce8fbe60859e323d8e2e0d" rel="cached" data-hash="8d15ff0621ce8fbe60859e323d8e2e0d" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/Nqsdog3.png)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-04-13, 20:36:31
Sarah against Hilary would be nice.

And I used to think that you were a decent chap.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/18/e2/e3/18e2e311d794a44a2c83a3d6587b04aa.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-04-13, 23:09:44
Keep cool Jim :)

Quote
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.

Emma Goldman


You'll get the best President money can buy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-04-13, 23:28:23
You have hit the nail on the head with that one krake! Only people with money can stand over there and shows the folly of the system. We had a Prime minister once who had been a bus conductor in younger days but nobody can stand for election in that Congress or Senate entertainment without being super rich. Tells one much and the money that will be spent on this White House thing will be over a billion.  Disgusting. .Now Clinton has intimated she is standing should be interesting and who knows maybe she might fail a second time? In practical terms she has a bit of a history does she not. Meanwhile there is a whole squad on the Republican side. What is over there that patriarchal families are getting routine?

In the end it will not make one jot of a difference and whoever wins will come out with the usual cobbler stuff about a new age a new future the way ahead stuff. Happens every time. It is all a bit like the Roman Empire when the Senate cobbled together by the rich and powerful and the ordinary had no part in the thing. Good comparison!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-04-14, 02:18:56
I can't wait for all the shit that's gunna stir when Slick Willy's whore,  whore "What Difference Does It Make"  Clinton, starts her assault on the Presidential Bidet!



(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FJuEJMrz.jpg&hash=b17e7686280a1ddda9d0951ac1a6df8c" rel="cached" data-hash="b17e7686280a1ddda9d0951ac1a6df8c" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://imgur.com/JuEJMrz.jpg)




[glow=blue,2,300]No holds barred in 2016!!! [/glow]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-04-14, 07:50:53
Politics in the US is, like life in the state of nature,
Quote
solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.


But somebody tell me where it is more civil. Germany? The UK?  Canada?
http://rabble.ca/columnists/2015/03/beyond-dirty-politics-harperism-threatens-democracy-itself (http://rabble.ca/columnists/2015/03/beyond-dirty-politics-harperism-threatens-democracy-itself)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-04-14, 11:40:09
Unfortunately your system is the most challenging even allowing for the fact that nowhere can be perfect.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-04-14, 16:58:36
Unfortunately your system is the most challenging even allowing for the fact that nowhere can be perfect.

Spring Hill, Tennessee, is perfect now that I'm here.
:D
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-04-15, 06:31:26
Words of wisdom: Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good! :)

(It's a laughing matter, and we -most of us- know who are likely to have no sense of humor…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-04-15, 20:59:22
Sounds good jimbro but the only loose thing is it makes you sound a bit like the Pope.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-04-16, 06:33:04
RJ, is there anything short of being a Howie clone that would make you able to understand anyone else? :)
Some of our states (and some of our counties even in some of our more prosperous states) are as poor as your country. And as proud! You can understand that, can't you?
Why do you expend so much of your time and attention upon us?

Are you that disgusted with your own…? :)

(You needn't be: You're an outlier…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-04-16, 13:37:39
Well Oakdale you are the country that stomps around the globe starting wars, increasing terrorism, attacks countries you don't see as democratic and doesn't look after their people. However the practice is contradictory to your chest beating and constant flag waving. Right now tens of thousands of poor workers are marching in cities all over your place. They are claiming the rich are richer and they are struggling which isn't supposed to happen to them apparently! Bottom of the pile and usually ignored along with the million annually losing homes, 40 million poor out of over 300 million population,an average of a solider a day committing sucicide, black persecution . I have said repeatedly here and it does not register with those of you who are dumbed by the propaganda it is a total hypocrisy. Indeed I have said if you backed of a bit from world interference, corporate world greed and looked after all those millions instead you would get automatic respect as a nation but nope that won't happen.  If you did those positives you would be more highly regarded and respected but it is beyond the mindset of folk like yourself and a couple of others here (not all). If you are telling me the tens of thousands of struggling low paid workers are proud then you should have listened to some of their comments.

At a stroke you could neutralise my stance but cannot. Instead if some country does not take on board your idea of a system then they are in for it and the wars push all those suffering in the often heralded "greatest country" even further down the chain. The super nationalism of you, Smiley, etc only emphasise the hypocrisy instead of being more practical. So start looking after your own massive numbers of losing people instead of the military and corporate string pullers. That would do America great and gain respect and admiration. You have lost all the regard once held after WW2 so maybe ask yourself why instead of trying to shut me up with practicing daftness!

Get you hand on the heart and use the other to wave the flag whilst telling all those losing out in the land of the free and home of the brave how lucky they are...... :faint: :doh:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-04-17, 03:46:59
Get back to me, after WW III… You know, the one that happens — without the U.S. being concerned, because we've become too meek and dispirited to take a hand.
I don't want your respect: You're a fool!
If your politicians are like you, they have no use to anyone but those who'd die comfortably knowing the world would not long outlive them.
Your vanity and venality are "ginormous" — and your head is filled with so many prejudices that there's no room left to constructive thought.
Your attempts at destructive thought are pitiful. But you know that…

Why are you so bitter?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-04-17, 12:41:37
Get back to me, after WW III… You know, the one that happens — without the U.S. being concerned, because we've become too meek and dispirited to take a hand.
I don't want your respect: You're a fool!
If your politicians are like you, they have no use to anyone but those who'd die comfortably knowing the world would not long outlive them.
Your vanity and venality are "ginormous" — and your head is filled with so many prejudices that there's no room left to constructive thought.
Your attempts at destructive thought are pitiful. But you know that…

Why are you so bitter?

But beyond all that, I respect and like you. :)
See you later in Every Thread Goes Bad.....
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-04-17, 18:23:38
Oh you are so well at showing how too many ex-colonists are brought up Oakdale. A simple emotional aspect whereany strong opinion is immediately put in the bitter corner. Not surprised your political system is run by corporates and no great depth of anything much. What actually goes on in the country is in such an in the face opposite to all the flair about what the constitution stands for. Time after time the internal affairs of the country make the global aspect so easily put in the hypocrisy folder. That there was a comment in the forum that the folk at the bottom are still greatly loyal kind of says much to my view. If you folk are unable to answer what are strong points and grumble at being shown then you have more of a problem thank you realise.

Try living in the real world my boy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-05-03, 23:39:00
In the event it hasn't been posted, Vermont's Bernie Sanders (Independent, though an admitted Socialist) is now going to challenge SF's favorite former First Lady.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-04, 01:34:20
Well she could do with some kind of challenge in principle.

She has always been a bit aloof and sometimes she would have a stare that looked down on folk. I did notice recently she was probably aware of that because she was trying to be seen with the man in the street kind of thing. She also has some odd hangovers from the time before she was First lady. I remember well when she visited the Balkans during the trouble she gave a story about how dangerous it was and that her official plane was shot at. However that turned out to be a damn lie. More recently that terrible thing see on television reports on the comments regarding Libya and the death of Gaddafi. Childish and ridiculous.

Will add this. The ex-colonist bent on family patriarchal stuff is still there so may I tell that there is a Monarchist association in the ex-colonies and would be more understandable than in a supposedly republic....!

:queen:  ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2015-05-04, 09:42:58
While I suspect the Chinese might have a Republican bent overall, it seems that Grandma Clinton has some personal popularity in China, more on likeability than on politics. Since 1.3 billion Chinese can't vote for their own leaders, maybe they might be allowed to vote in US elections, as a consolation prize?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-05, 06:31:46
And the Chinese had a regard for the Republican President Nixon
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-05-08, 19:34:18
Just so everyone is up to speed, the lineups are as follows:

Republican Candidates:

1. Rand Paul

2. Mike Huckabee

3. Ted Cruz

4. Marco Rubio

5. (Unofficially) Jeb Bush



Democratic Candidates:

1. Hillary (aka Billary) Clinton

2. Bernie Sanders  (S)

3. Colorado's Governor/former Governor, whose name escapes me at the moment



Libertarian Candidate:

1. Gary Johnson
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-20, 19:27:37
And I hope they don't come up with that 'yes we can' cobblers. Obama has ended up a more control freak than his predecessor. Each Presidential circus come out with the stuff on a new direction and all sorts of repeated slogans but doesn't happen. The two party monolithic regimes are out of damn date. The voting percentages last time on the 'Hill showed that but the people are stuck with the system.

Hilary Clinton makes me groan and has been a liar in the past and surely Americans cannot be taken in with her softly, softly approach. With all these patricial families it kind of makes a republic look funny. Maybe Colonel Rebel could bypass his employment frustration by being a candidate.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-05-20, 20:13:13

And I hope they don't come up with that 'yes we can' cobblers. Obama has ended up a more control freak than his predecessor. Each Presidential circus come out with the stuff on a new direction and all sorts of repeated slogans but doesn't happen. The two party monolithic regimes are out of damn date. The voting percentages last time on the 'Hill showed that but the people are stuck with the system.

Hilary Clinton makes me groan and has been a liar in the past and surely Americans cannot be taken in with her softly, softly approach. With all these patricial families it kind of makes a republic look funny. Maybe Colonel Rebel could bypass his employment frustration by being a candidate.


"Yes we can" and "Hope and change" were Obama campaign slogans. The next candidates have to come up with something a little different. If for no other reason than that somebody might ask what the candidate can, and what exactly he/she hopes to change.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-05-20, 21:34:37
what exactly he/she hopes to change.

You seriously think that the candidate might be a 'she'?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-05-20, 23:02:23

what exactly he/she hopes to change.

You seriously think that the candidate might be a 'she'?


It sorta depends. How suicidal are the major parties? How suicidal are any optional parties? I wouldn't put it past the Democrat Party to put Hillary in because "it's her turn"-- forgetting how that reasoning worked out for Bob Dole when he was the Republican candidate. (Bob Dole was a good man, no doubt--- but by the time he became the Republican candidate even his best friend would have had to admit that Bob's train had left the station probably a decade back.) Now-- if the Dems choose Hillary--- as I suspect they just might-- who will the Republicans choose as a "Hillary stopper"? My guess is that if there's a skirt available she'll get a chance--- and we the people may be in big trouble. Out of the guys presently showing on the Republican ticket, only Jeb Bush really makes me wince. Enough of either the Clinton or the Bush dynasty--- send them both home.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2015-05-22, 15:11:28
What's wrong with the good old intermarriage? Go for the Clinton-Bush ticket.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-05-23, 03:29:01

What's wrong with the good old intermarriage? Go for the Clinton-Bush ticket.


That brings back a memory. Chekov has just brushed back a jacket covering a name on an apparently abandoned ship on a desert planet. His next words, upon seeing the name of the ship-- Botany Bay-- are, and I quote "Oh, no". That's somewhat the feeling your Clinton/Bush ticket idea gives me. Only I'm not sure that Clinton/Bush would be as good for us as Khan was to Chekov and his superior when they arrived on the scene.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-23, 04:06:04
You might, mjm, have to explain one or two of your references… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-23, 04:41:14
I sometimes think that it doesn't matter a lot which of the 2 stock lots win the ordinary person is just a pawn?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-24, 06:58:53
You've figured out British politics! Good for you, Howie! (Took you long enough… :) )

Get up on your soap-box and change things, why don't you?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-24, 23:49:00
Dancing again.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-26, 02:56:33
Nope! Watching you do so… And I must say so: you're not the least bit graceful! Two left feet, I suppose.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-26, 21:56:45
Well you do emphasise the type of ex-colonist who cannot think for himself or properly. I have stood in elections here and as it happens there is a local amusing side to the two left feet and describes an RC which I am not! In addition my party is not lefty but there again we have a wider system. On a lesser note I once won a dancing competition so dear grey cells dumbell another wasted attempt by you. Whilst you flop around looking for your brains I will be out for an exercising walk and meet people. Friday I will be elected to an office in yet another organisation whilst you in turn stagnate. And anyway can you walk with 2 feet out of the chair and away from the John Barcleycorn??

As for your Presidential thing it is a ridiculous and over the top load of cobblers. Like a circus gone mad. Here we have proper party conferences not the nonsense you have and at each Presidential Election it is the same thing over and over. How you are going to move forward with high principles, the mental waving of the flag, near tears and emotional stuff about the stars n' stripes, blah, blah. They only change the wording each time and stuck with 2 parties who are in turn controlled by the money barons. That the Democrats are regarded by many outside as the lesser of two evils is hardly a compliment!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-05-26, 22:37:18
How odd. RJH says he isn't a Leftist, but he sounds exactly like a Leftist.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-05-26, 22:52:23
On a lesser note I once won a dancing competition

This man is incredible... no one believes me when I say I know him.

In the Vatican, the Pope waves to a huge multitude. rjhowie stands at His right side.
Who's that guy, asks someone.
The guy in white? I don't know but the other is rjhowie...
....
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-05-27, 13:50:17

How odd. RJH says he isn't a Leftist, but he sounds exactly like a Leftist.

A leftist adoring Baroness Thatcher?  :left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-28, 08:28:34
A leftist adoring Baroness Thatcher?   :left:
Continental Drift, sir! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-29, 03:17:38
Must say that both mjsmsprt40 and Oakdale are both neat redneck Republicans won the GB General election but then we have a wider democracy than over there. As I pointed out a short time ago anything outside of your limited political hegemony namely Rockwell, is leftist. Smal wonder the money barons keep you under control.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-29, 03:28:31
Who is this Rockwell you speak of, Oh Oracular One? :)
we have a wider democracy than over there
"My wife is so wide that when she sits around the house, she sits around the house!" (You need new writers, RJ…)

The question is not one of "widest" but of better… And I don't believe you have the intellectual tools to make such a determination.
But don't feel too bad. There are others in similar situations, and surely some of them will expire even before you!
That should make you happy enough.

But it won't be us. You'll have to make do with a lesser schadenfreude
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-06-04, 08:01:23
Dancing again....
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-06-04, 08:20:35

Who is this Rockwell you speak of, Oh Oracular One? :

I wondered about that
Was it Norman Rockwell, prolific illustrator for The Saturday Evening Post?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-06-04, 08:43:05
I like the terminology… But, RJ, "dancing" being a nice appellation for prevarication — I've used it myself — there's something you always fail to take into account: History.
Your political leaders have set your course. Ours only think they have set ours… You folk are "sheeple" and I admit we are too damn close to becoming the same. But it's often been a bad bet to count us out.

Your country has the great advantage (if that's what you'd call it…) of not being important to anyone else in the world! Congrats! You've achieved your long-sought goal: Utter mediocrity.
You could be a poster boy! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-06-04, 08:52:21
Was it Norman Rockwell, prolific illustrator for The Saturday Evening Post?
Nah! I have to admit that I immediately knew he was referring to Lew Rockwell, the founder of the von Mises Institute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises_Institute): That RJ just "discovered" it this year is typical and telling.
The American politician most promoted and most represented on this site is Ron Paul — who, apparently, Howie thinks we Americans should have elevated to executive power…
Never trust a Glaswegian to advise you on matters political! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2015-06-04, 12:33:05

Never trust a Glaswegian to advise you on matters political! :)


Sound advice. Keep in mind that the number of Glaswegians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Glaswegians) is significantly higher than 1, and comprises political inadvisables like Adam Smith and Niall Ferguson, the recent killer of black youth.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-06-05, 08:15:04
I am content with your built-in dopiness Oakdale and knew about the Nazi Rockwell years ago. You don't really have a proper electoral system at all and is just a wee present from the corporates to keep you lot feeling it is democracy. We got all the attacks on GW Bush as President and then along came Obama and all that "yes we can" guff. He has killed more with drones than Bush did, restricted personal freedoms more as well. The CSA like other groups have bounced by the Constitution when suited than Bush. More people coming out to tell what is going on have been charged under Obama as well. All goes to show how easy you lot can be conned by a circus passing for a system. What a choice -Republicans and Democrats.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-06-05, 08:28:08
"The CSA like other groups have bounced by the Constitution when suited than Bush."
Starts with a capital letter and finishes with a full stop.
Was it meant to be a sentence? Was it meant to mean something? Was it a cunning test to check if we are paying attention?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-05, 11:27:45
"The CSA like other groups have bounced by the Constitution when suited than Bush."

TT, it's a test for Scottish citizenship. If you know what the sentence means, you instantly become a citizen.

Most people have difficulty with "when suited than Bush." Admittedly, some have problems with "bounced by the Constitution."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-06-05, 19:49:55



TT, it's a test for Scottish citizenship. If you know what the sentence means, you instantly become a citizen.



Thanks for clearing that up.
For the record, what is FIRST prize?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-06-06, 02:40:00
For the record, what is FIRST prize?
:)
…I'm still somewhat curious how "CIA" became "CSA". Even typing with one's knuckles doesn't make that likely. (Howie, what were you doing with you right hand…? :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-06, 14:02:21
For the record, what is FIRST prize?

A fully paid week at the Astro motel.
(https://mbeachbywordofmouth.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/astromotel21.jpg)
And 21 meals at...
(https://timenewsfeed.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/mcdonalds-getty.jpg?w=480&h=320&crop=1)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-06-06, 16:59:19
With all the alphabet soup we have for intelligence and security these days, I'm almost surprised an American doesn't get it confused. "CSA" is the unholy offspring that results when the CIA and the TSA have a tryst at the Astro Motel.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-06-06, 23:50:47

For the record, what is FIRST prize?
:)
…I'm still somewhat curious how "CIA" became "CSA". Even typing with one's knuckles doesn't make that likely. (Howie, what were you doing with you right hand…? :) )


(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/JerkOFF.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/little-rocking-monkey.gif) Snappin' 'is carrot to the beat of the rockin' monkey.....that's his 23 hour long  'Constitutional'  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-06-11, 03:22:04

Must say that both mjsmsprt40 and Oakdale are both neat redneck Republicans won the GB General election but then we have a wider democracy than over there. As I pointed out a short time ago anything outside of your limited political hegemony namely Rockwell, is leftist. Smal wonder the money barons keep you under control.

May I be the first to offer my congratulations to mjmsprt40 and Oakdale on the apparently new Coalition Gov't they have formed.

Also congrats on the new citizenship?

Many thanks to @Luxor for pointing out the new anthem for the new Coalition gov't  :beer: :
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-06-11, 06:26:33
This is -ostensibly- a thread about the 2016 U.S. presidential election? (If you disagree, please skip this post — and others I might make here.)
I'm a Republican -in the sense that I'm a conservative and I have not only a fondness for those who are now called Libertarians- but remember when Liberals agreed with me! The labels don't matter much to me.
I haven't changed much.

So the troglodytes have a clear target, I would support Cruz, Rubio or Walker. (I'd be wary of any of the others…) Do your darnedest! (Ye wee willie winkies! :) You -of course- know better how to run the world… You've done such a good job, before! :) ))

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-06-11, 12:52:43


Must say that both mjsmsprt40 and Oakdale are both neat redneck Republicans won the GB General election but then we have a wider democracy than over there. As I pointed out a short time ago anything outside of your limited political hegemony namely Rockwell, is leftist. Smal wonder the money barons keep you under control.

May I be the first to offer my congratulations to mjmsprt40 and Oakdale on the apparently new Coalition Gov't they have formed.

Also congrats on the new citizenship?

Many thanks to @Luxor for pointing out the new anthem for the new Coalition gov't  :beer: :


Now how do you like that? Without even running, Oakdale and I manage to get elected and form a government. What next? OK, assuming this to be true--- in fantasyland ANYTHING can be true--I suppose you could do worse than a Redneck government with us at the head of it.

Now back to the real world: Oakdale mentions some candidates in the Republican primary that he likes. Of those, one--Governor Walker-- just might get my primary vote because he's the one I know most about. Hey-- he's just North of the Cheddar Curtain, so there's been lots of information about him in the news here in Northern Illinois.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-06-12, 05:28:07
I especially like Walker's "lack" of credentials, mjm! He doesn't even have a college degree… (Never mind, that he's been a county executive and two-term governor.) If he doesn't win the nomination this time around I have little doubt that he will in about 8 years hence.

I would have voted for Barry Goldwater in '64, had I been old enough.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-06-16, 22:43:12
That inenarrable thing called something that keeps on saying that he's very rich and made a reality show about firing people announced that he's running for president of the U.S.
I hope the Talibans catch him soon. That would be viral all over the the world, his beheading video on Youtube.

Ahh, Trump.


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-06-16, 23:56:09

That inenarrable thing called something that keeps on saying that he's very rich and made a reality show about firing people announced that he's running for president of the U.S.
I hope the Talibans catch him soon. That would be viral all over the the world, his beheading video on Youtube.

Ahh, Trump.


Somebody had to bring the comedy relief. Personally, I don't expect Trump to make it past the New Hampshire primaries. There are too many better candidates than him.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-06-17, 03:42:18
Now a multi-billionaire is throwing his hat into the ring on the Republican side re the circus that passes for a system. Well, I suppose that is fair enough as it is the big bucks people that run America not the people.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-17, 13:28:06
Goodness, Rj, who doesn't love a billionaire?

I'd vote for the man in a heartbeat if he made it to the ballot...based on his photo alone.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcrooksandliars.com%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2Fpost_thumbnail%2Fimages%2F15%2F03%2Fdonald-trump-bad-hair.jpg&hash=abfb8e878a6a3efde369c00defd5437a" rel="cached" data-hash="abfb8e878a6a3efde369c00defd5437a" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://crooksandliars.com/files/imagecache/post_thumbnail/images/15/03/donald-trump-bad-hair.jpg)
=======================
For unknown reasons ex-politicians seem to do well after leaving office. For example, Tony Blair's father was a barrister, and Tony is reported to be worth £75m. He's good friends with billionaire Richard Branson. That might have helped.

For a relatively small island you folks have a nice collection of billionaires.

Quote
The number of billionaires living in the UK has risen to more than 100 for the first time, according to the 2014 Sunday Times Rich List. There are now 104 billionaires based in the UK with a combined wealth of more than £301bn, the list says.


That said, I once shook the hand of a billionaire, Mike Ilitch. I'm sure he mentions that handshake to all of his friends.
==========================
I'm not sure how billionaires run the U.S. Please explain that to me.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-06-17, 13:46:20
Now all we need is for Pat Robertson to announce his candidacy and we'll be all set. If he does, this election cycle will be fun to watch if nothing else.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-17, 15:02:18
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.charismanews.com%2Fimages%2Farchives%2Fstories%2FAssociatedPressImages%2Fap-Pat-Robertson-Presidential-Campaign-1988-photog-David-Banks.jpg&hash=a94f9e0584b8d2331511a441b4b22afe" rel="cached" data-hash="a94f9e0584b8d2331511a441b4b22afe" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn.charismanews.com/images/archives/stories/AssociatedPressImages/ap-Pat-Robertson-Presidential-Campaign-1988-photog-David-Banks.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-06-18, 01:25:29

Now a multi-billionaire is throwing his hat into the ring on the Republican side re the circus that passes for a system. Well, I suppose that is fair enough as it is the big bucks people that run America not the people.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Says the Scot who's Head of Gov't is a posh Etonian tw*t with money made from back in the days of Empire-profiteering.

Irony......thy name is RJHowie.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-06-18, 06:34:57
Don't you mean "Irny"?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-18, 10:01:54
I refuse to get involved in this name-calling fest, you swinish Nazi morons!

What does all of this stuff have to do with the 2016 election? Have we gotten off topic again?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-06-18, 23:20:35

Don't you mean "Irny"?

:lol: Well played sir.  :cheers:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-06-18, 23:43:45
It is a sign of the times, that -after seven years of Democrat rule- even Donald Trump looks like a viable candidate…!
(The supposed-majorities of the Republicans in the House and the Senate have been obviated by their actions: Most Republicans in office today are indistinguishable from Democrats.)

Let the Tea Parties rise again!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-19, 14:47:47

It is a sign of the times, that -after seven years of Democrat rule- even Donald Trump looks like a viable candidate…!
(The supposed-majorities of the Republicans in the House and the Senate have been obviated by their actions: Most Republicans in office today are indistinguishable from Democrats.)

Let the Tea Parties rise again!

:jester: Nothing would cheer up Hillarious Hillary than the TP rising.  :jester:
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/008/0/5709199/il_340x270.406963208_aeir.jpg)
I don't know about you, but I'm not looking forward to the 2016 cartoon festival. Unless...
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9v0Yf9wHlQ[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-06-19, 17:21:24

Have we gotten off topic again?

Here?! Impossible! :no:

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-06-20, 00:59:53
Problem: One of these unfit candidates is going to win. We're in an awful lot of trouble.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-06-20, 01:52:08
How about one of us (preferably a U.S. citizen) changes our name to "Noneoftheabove" and runs for president?
Can't miss..
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-20, 10:41:09
How about if you open a new thread, "Noneoftheabove."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2015-06-20, 13:15:56
Shouldn't that be Noneofthebelow?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2015-06-20, 13:27:28
Oddswise she's a winner (http://www.oddsshark.com/entertainment/us-presidential-odds-2016-futures). Can't you just go for the Clinton-Bush ticket and save yourself a year of electioneering?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-06-20, 17:25:21

Problem: One of these unfit candidates is going to win. We're in an awful lot of trouble.

Maybe it is time to split up the country. Let Texas, Louisiana, Alabama etc. secede under the condition that they take everyone who would seriously vote for someone like Santorum, offer instant citizenship to the three or four sane people trapped on the wrong side of the new border.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-06-20, 17:41:31

Problem: One of these unfit candidates is going to win.

Democracy at its best.  :whistle:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-06-20, 18:57:21
How much is it said that costs to be President of the USA?
Last number I remember was ten millions that the candidate or someone for him has to spend but that was many moons ago...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-06-20, 20:46:48
I think it is best if the new president wins by spending only his own money.
That way he owes fewer favours and has the opportunity to govern justly and morally.
Dream on.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-06-23, 22:26:04
Doesn't matter which of the two giant corporate backed giant parties wins the thing is a farce. There will still be 1,000,000 losing homes, 11,000 shot dead annually, 40 million poor on food stamps, gung-ho police,spend half the globe's armaments bill, the utter farcical international stance on freedom, rights and stuff. And all the hype about a new dawn and heart thumping progress is the same guff and the folk dumbed into believing it all. Yeah, right.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-06-23, 23:52:21

Doesn't matter which of the two giant corporate backed giant parties wins the thing is a farce. There will still be 1,000,000 losing homes, 11,000 shot dead annually, 40 million poor on food stamps, gung-ho police,spend half the globe's armaments bill, the utter farcical international stance on freedom, rights and stuff.


America.....ya gotta love the smell of burnt gunpowder in the mornin'! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)

Alergik RJ......stay home & play with yer pen knife............while Lizzy & her Mongoloid Puppet Government still letsya that is!  (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.laineygossip.com%2Farticles%2Fprince-harry-salute-13mar15-26.jpg&hash=f968e69ab2e8daa4468d5322ce22c1a2" rel="cached" data-hash="f968e69ab2e8daa4468d5322ce22c1a2" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://photos.laineygossip.com/articles/prince-harry-salute-13mar15-26.jpg)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/taunt.gif)


(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/DemsVsGOP.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-06-25, 01:08:13
Be smug it covers inability to argue my points dear terrorist supporter. And to ad to them you are trillions in debt, keeping armament corporates happy selling stuff and telling the world how wonderful you are. Small wonder we shake our heads the way the country is run inside never mind out! And I stand by my submission it does not make a damn difference to less well off or the country as a whole. Conventions? They look ridiculous and juvenile and that is being lenient.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-25, 09:53:23
Small wonder we shake our heads the way the country is run inside never mind out! And I stand by my submission it does not make a damn difference to less well off or the country as a whole.

"We"? Who are "we"?

And...
Quote
There are 2.3 million children - almost one in six - living in relative poverty in the UK, government figures show.
The Department for Work and Pensions said the proportion of children living in poverty was unchanged in 2013-14 compared with the previous year.
A child is defined as being in poverty when living in a household with an income below 60% of the UK's average.
Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith said poverty levels were the "lowest since the mid-1980s".
The DWP said the percentage of children in relative low income households remained at 17%.
'Deeply concerning'
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-06-27, 04:30:59
Depends what one means by poverty.

I see no children in poor clothes or shoes, houses in "poor" areas with satellite tv, pubs, full and fast food shops doing great money. They have all got mobile phones, tablets and so on. When you manage to do something with the million a year losing homes and the 40 million poor then fine. You have become like the cumfy leafy suburbian myth style and simply shut your eyes to the negatives that cannot be answered. I have well stated what I found both in my job and in voluntary work on the old Opera forums. Those less well off are better here than in the hypocrisyland.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-27, 12:34:48
What do I see locally? I don't get out into poor neighborhoods here but do drive along roads between our house and my daughter's neighborhood and see absolute hovels with TV and internet hardware on roofs and planted in front yards.

From http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/04/losing-homes-housing-crisis-affordable-housing (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/04/losing-homes-housing-crisis-affordable-housing)

Quote
On Monday this week, my boyfriend came home clutching a letter and looking shell-shocked. Our landlords, a housing association that rents us our flat privately, had taken the decision to raise our rent by £400 a month to bring it in line with the market. Fair enough, some might say, but it means that our home – the home that we have made together – has gone from being just about affordable to not being a viable option.

In the midst of the UK’s current housing crisis, it was, I suppose, only to be expected. It’s difficult to express the emotions that you experience when you suddenly realise that what you thought was your home could be swept out from underneath your feet. Now I know that a rented home is never yours.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-06-28, 08:33:16
Oh the guardian again! That item shows their political leaning exceptionally well. Nationally in the Welfare State families were able to have benefits up to £25,000 a year. Rent, child allowance and so on. A ridiclusous amount and the government is right to reduce it to £23,000 maximum. Tax payments were reduced and tax is not paid until over £10,500 nd planed to be £12,000. So even many more will pay no tax. It is easy of course to pick something out and give the impression of a wholesale bad situation when that is utter bunkum. Many instead of the Welfare State being as a safety net use it as an alternative to working. Those that often scoff atthe Daily mail can equally be scoffed at on the Guardian. As I said a while ago it was Midlands based originally and called the 'Manchester Guardian' and supported the Liberal Party no it is Labour leaning. The one good news about that newspaper is it's steady decline and a positive.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-06-29, 01:31:04

Oh the guardian again! That item shows their political leaning exceptionally well. Nationally in the Welfare State families were able to have benefits up to £25,000 a year. Rent, child allowance and so on. A ridiclusous amount and the government is right to reduce it to £23,000 maximum. Tax payments were reduced and tax is not paid until over £10,500 nd planed to be £12,000. So even many more will pay no tax. It is easy of course to pick something out and give the impression of a wholesale bad situation when that is utter bunkum. Many instead of the Welfare State being as a safety net use it as an alternative to working. Those that often scoff atthe Daily mail can equally be scoffed at on the Guardian. As I said a while ago it was Midlands based originally and called the 'Manchester Guardian' and supported the Liberal Party no it is Labour leaning. The one good news about that newspaper is it's steady decline and a positive.

One takes away you prefer The Telegraph or the Daily Mail?  :sherlock:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-29, 10:41:58
Oh the guardian again! That item shows their political leaning exceptionally well. Nationally in the Welfare State families were able to have benefits up to £25,000 a year. Rent, child allowance and so on. A ridiclusous amount and the government is right to reduce it to £23,000 maximum.

It's 'ridiclusous' to selectively pick on the poor, although it's probably universal. Why, it even happens here.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jseaton2311 on 2015-06-30, 01:45:30
It's 'ridiclusous' to selectively pick on the poor, although it's probably universal. Why, it even happens here.

It certainly does.  In 2008 the state of Oregon held a lottery for the poor and uninsured to see who would receive Medicaid.  The lottery turned into a landmark experiment to see whether having health insurance actually led to better health.  As one might guess, having health insurance, as opposed to those who did not have health insurance, didn't lead to better health--go figure.  :knight:  :cheers:

EDIT:  "Physical health:
Medicaid has no statistically significant effect on measured blood pressure, cholesterol or glycated hemoglobin (a measure of diabetic blood sugar control), or on the diagnosis of or medication for blood pressure or cholesterol. We can reject, with 95% confidence, increases in systolic blood pressure larger than 1.93 mm Hg and decreases larger than 2.97 mm Hg. For diastolic blood pressure, we can reject, with 95% confidence, increases larger than 1.04 mm Hg and decreases larger than 2.65 mm Hg."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-06-30, 02:16:35
To you Colonel - "yes." The Guardian is a posh and declining paper with it's own political agenda (like many of course) and that it is declining is a progressive news point in itslef.  When it evacuated Manchester in the ordinary Midlands to changing it's name (dropping 'Manchester') embodies it's strutting pomposity.

Yes to jimbro and anyone on the poor always being with us. It depends what countries spend and how they deal with the poor and homeless. Jimbro has earlier touched on the massive military bill across the water which is very immoral and contradictory and it kind of ignores the plight of the less well off citizenry. That is sad and should not happen of course.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-06-30, 04:46:10
Jimbro has earlier touched on the massive military bill across the water which is very immoral and contradictory and it kind of ignores the plight of the less well off citizenry. That is sad and should not happen of course.
If you don't mind Howie I'll take advantage of your peculiar style of punctuation to "interpret" what you said for the un-initiated:
That "massive military bill" being "across the water" is indeed immoral! Buck up, boy-o: Nobody expects Scotland (or England, or Western Europe) to pay for their own defense; and you should know -your own advice supports it!- the next time you're in a pickle, we may just hunker down and leave you to your own devices. (You yourself are fairly safe: Nobody wants Scotland… Not even the Scots.)
Your "plight of the less well-off citizenry" doesn't seem to bother you much… But I suppose if you've been used to centuries of poverty you can hardly know better. Perhaps that's why -when the U.S. mostly paid the way- you still managed to promote poverty at home. Good job!

So: Why does the upcoming presidential race in the U.S. seem so important to you? Looking for someone to curse, before you expire?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-30, 08:32:57
Back to the 2016 race and why I'd rather have Putin as president.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi602.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt104%2Fmaximumrule%2FDonald-Trump-funny-president.jpg&hash=12c1f22da977652e6a8706b565974531" rel="cached" data-hash="12c1f22da977652e6a8706b565974531" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/maximumrule/Donald-Trump-funny-president.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-06-30, 09:20:23
Back to the 2016 race and why I'd rather have Putin as president.
I can't respond to this… Sartorial proclivities aside, I'd not worry about or wrap my politics around Liberal Doctrine!
You, Jaybro, would. I think that unfortunate. (But how many more elections are you going to vote in? Or me!? And what do our votes accomplish?) What, I ask, is the vision you'd promote, of the next best thing? :)

I assume that you'll vote for Joe Bidden?! :) (Or Hillary Clinton.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-30, 19:37:43
Or Hillary Biden, RjOakdale.

As for the number of elections I'll vote in, who knows. At 77 I'm running out of elections.

A single vote hardly matters, so my vote or lack thereof won't make a bit of difference. What I do know is the the Republicans in my old home state are trying to cut my retirement benefits, so you can predict which party I'll support.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-07-01, 03:54:28
You don't have much of a chice anyway jimbro and stuck with 2 corporate gants rather than a wide democracy. Stay in, spend your pension, enjoy the Net and sigh.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-07-01, 08:41:09
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi602.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt104%2Fmaximumrule%2FDonald-Trump-funny-president.jpg&hash=12c1f22da977652e6a8706b565974531" rel="cached" data-hash="12c1f22da977652e6a8706b565974531" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/maximumrule/Donald-Trump-funny-president.jpg)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fimages%2Fimage-864960-galleryV9-bqwt.jpg&hash=3a0d5b38897f6f3f0710124fc5af270d" rel="cached" data-hash="3a0d5b38897f6f3f0710124fc5af270d" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-864960-galleryV9-bqwt.jpg)

BTW, nobody will laugh at him as president because he has no chance to become one.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-01, 14:05:50
Great pic! You're right. He's delusional.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-07-01, 21:08:54
Krake, you and I don't agree on much but this is one thing we do agree on. Trump is his own worst enemy, every time he opens his mouth something foolish comes out.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-07-01, 21:12:20

Krake, you and I don't agree on much but this is one thing we do agree on. Trump is his own worst enemy, every time he opens his mouth something foolish comes out.


Special note to RJHowie: This may be the time to re-think that bit about money buying power. Trump has enough money to buy the Presidency if you were right, instead of that I doubt he survives the Iowa caucuses as a viable candidate. If he does get past Iowa, he's done by Super Tuesday.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-02, 08:43:08
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fonecitizenspeaking.typepad.com%2F.a%2F6a00d83451d3b569e201b7c756a6e7970b-pi&hash=5365d64dd89e66e0cccee440d3b69e5d" rel="cached" data-hash="5365d64dd89e66e0cccee440d3b69e5d" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://onecitizenspeaking.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451d3b569e201b7c756a6e7970b-pi)
So, who would be his running mate?
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.cdn.turner.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F150127140739-palin-trump-reality-tv-exlarge-169.png&hash=afff74f6765ff4bc243d2f6483e828a9" rel="cached" data-hash="afff74f6765ff4bc243d2f6483e828a9" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150127140739-palin-trump-reality-tv-exlarge-169.png)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-07-02, 10:20:08
One that I'm missing. Too bad that he isn't among the candidates. :(

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FVHVbjl5.jpg&hash=01ce9e1de088d81045b382e5c356b746" rel="cached" data-hash="01ce9e1de088d81045b382e5c356b746" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/VHVbjl5.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-02, 13:04:19
Looks like a lizard doing a spastic dance.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/90/72/71/9072717c53916c3061fba170819650bf.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-07-02, 22:50:13
Is this thread - The American something - a show of monstrous creatures?
That's a good idea.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-07-02, 23:33:03
I don't know about monstrous creatures, but it sure does resemble "Amateur Hour". Special points if you're old enough to remember that program.....
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-07-03, 00:17:31
Ted Mack? Never heard of him… Arthur Godfrey, neither. Hmph.

But I still greatly regret Burr's errant shot that deprived the nation of the abilities of Hamilton.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-03, 10:02:08
Points, please!
===========================================
Ted Mack & the Original Amateur Hour (1948–1970)
TV Series  |  TV-G  |  Comedy, Family, Music
7.0 Your rating:   -/10   Ratings: 7.0/10 from 30 users  
Reviews: 4 user | 1 critic
A direct descendant of radio's "Major Bowes Original Amateur Hour" (1934-1946), hosted by Major Edward Bowes until his death. After a one-year hiatus, Ted Mack, who had directed Bowes'
==================
Godfrey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAixx8G2wzU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAixx8G2wzU)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-07-04, 04:54:01
I listened to Hannity (of Fox News — but, of course, he's a pundit!) interview Bobby Jindal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jindal), governor of Louisiana, tonight for an hour, and it seems that the GOP does have a superstar in the race…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-09, 08:59:17
From ABC News:
Quote
Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush said Wednesday that in order to grow the economy “people should work longer hours” -- a comment that the Bush campaign argues was a reference to underemployed part-time workers but which Democrats are already using to attack him.


I'm sure Jindal loves it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jseaton2311 on 2015-07-10, 04:00:25

I listened to Hannity (of Fox News — but, of course, he's a pundit!) interview Bobby Jindal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jindal), governor of Louisiana, tonight for an hour, and it seems that the GOP does have a superstar in the race…

Jindal will not make it to the oval office in the next election.  Previous stances on pro-life and anti-gun control are too recently changing just for his presidential run to fool many of the voting population.  And while a US presidential must say that he believes in god to have any chance of getting elected, he can't say that he prays to god about it.  God-belief in this country only goes so far in politics (and most other endeavors), and then you cross a line into becoming too much of a lunatic to be trustworthy--strange but true.  Jindal is an intellectual of sorts, but not on par with Obama.  His economic stance on a balanced budget has a nice democratic flair to it, but that is just one reasons why the good ole boys who 'are drinking whiskey and rye' will not let him get the nomination.   :knight:  :cheers:

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-07-10, 23:24:52
orthy--strange but true.  Jindal is an intellectual of sorts, but not on par with Obama.
:) You think Obama is an intellectual?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-11, 19:34:19
:)  You think Obama is an intellectual?

:o He's smarter than a few of our posters. :cheers:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-07-11, 20:20:17
He writes well.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-11, 20:36:31
And himss speling is almots gud.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-07-12, 00:48:14
 ???
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-07-12, 11:52:36
Are the candidates promising anything interesting?
Nudism mandatory for everybody? Legal marriage with animals and plants? That you'll take your space rockets and leave Earth forever towards Orion?

Please... come on, You Can do it... you must believe in yourselves, be confident and follow the way of the Braves. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-07-12, 17:53:34

:)  You think Obama is an intellectual?

:o He's smarter than a few of our posters. :cheers:

You misunderstood. Some people think "intellectual" means "agrees with my nutjobbery and uses dem big fancy wordses" :right:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-07-12, 18:15:00
Are the candidates promising anything interesting?

I understand Bernie Sanders is so surprisingly sane that they call him crazy. :P
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-12, 18:46:30
Legal marriage with animals and plants?
You should be able to marry a goat if the goat is willing, but only if the goat is willing!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-07-12, 18:50:40
I've long argued that you should be able to marry a goat if the goat is willing, but only if the goat is willing!

Of course, goat's will must be always respected.

Are the candidates promising anything interesting?

I understand Bernie Sanders is so surprisingly sane that they call him crazy. :P

I have to look for that Bernie Sanders... (why do they all have this kind of names...)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-12, 18:51:02
I understand Bernie Sanders is so surprisingly sane that they call him crazy.

I agree with that, and he has as much chance of beating out Mrs. Clinton as you do, President Frenzie.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Finfojustice.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F05%2FPresidentialSeal.png&hash=ba32cba73893cdec906652a3de56169a" rel="cached" data-hash="ba32cba73893cdec906652a3de56169a" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://infojustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/PresidentialSeal.png)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2015-07-12, 18:53:15

Are the candidates promising anything interesting?

I understand Bernie Sanders is so surprisingly sane that they call him crazy. :P

Yup, what's a middle of the road social democrat in .de is a crazy radical around here.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-12, 18:55:08
I have to look for that Bernie Sanders... (why do they all have this kind of names...)

Would Anibal Almeida be better?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-12, 18:57:44
Yup, what's a middle of the road social democrat in .de is a crazy radical around here.

He's not seen as a crazy radical, just as a candidate with absolutely no chance of taking the nomination from Clinton.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jseaton2311 on 2015-07-13, 17:55:28
Are the candidates promising anything interesting?
Nudism mandatory for everybody? Legal marriage with animals and plants? That you'll take your space rockets and leave Earth forever towards Orion?
So now you are picking on innocent animals and plants--they have rights too ya know...and lefts.  I think that Donald Trump plans to do the space rocket thing with Mexicans--illegal and legal.   :knight:  :cheers:

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-07-13, 18:31:43
The show so far:

On the Democrat side, we have Hillary Clinton and a couple of trial-horses. Seriously, the contenders only make it so that Hillary's eventual winning of the Democratic nomination isn't a coronation.

On the Republican side--- some 15 contenders for nomination. Add 5 more, give them pitchforks and torches, and they're good to go as an angry, frightened mob. Make Donald Trump their spokesperson for real fun.

Of that lot, Scott Walker from Wisconsin, the governor of Louisiana (I forget his name) and-- God help us-- Jeb Bush are the only ones seriously worth considering. The rest fill out the angry, frightened mob.

We're in an awful lot of trouble.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-13, 21:32:14
Donald Trump plans to do the space rocket thing with Mexicans--illegal and legal.

Do you mean this The Donald?
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia2.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F12bz5greaL6Vzy%2Fgiphy.gif&hash=af4cdb0fad7ef41dedaad9d083042301" rel="cached" data-hash="af4cdb0fad7ef41dedaad9d083042301" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://media2.giphy.com/media/12bz5greaL6Vzy/giphy.gif)
============


(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Bobby_Jindal,_official_109th_Congressional_photo.jpg)
Jindal is the name you're looking for. I swear, the man looks like Alfred E. Newman.
(https://sensuouscurmudgeon.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/what-me-worry.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-07-14, 00:58:48
I think I now understand Democratic politics…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2015-07-14, 01:23:35
i know it is too early ..
but is there any Valid Survey about Who will Win the   President Election in  United State 2016 ?

ofc , it is a must from the Credible -  trusted  -  Provable - surveyor , with  lesser margin of error . 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-07-14, 07:33:29

The show so far:

On the Democrat side, we have Hillary Clinton and a couple of trial-horses. Seriously, the contenders only make it so that Hillary's eventual winning of the Democratic nomination isn't a coronation.

On the Republican side--- some 15 contenders for nomination. Add 5 more, give them pitchforks and torches, and they're good to go as an angry, frightened mob. Make Donald Trump their spokesperson for real fun.

Of that lot, Scott Walker from Wisconsin, the governor of Louisiana (I forget his name) and-- God help us-- Jeb Bush are the only ones seriously worth considering. The rest fill out the angry, frightened mob.

We're in an awful lot of trouble.

I have to admit that I'm just a clueless person from over the pond who tries to understand something about this circus, called US electoral campaign.
Granted that the new candidates might not be any better presidents than their predecessors, what on earth makes you think that Hillary Clinton is worse than Barack Obama or Jeb Bush is worse than his brother George?
So, what's the big drama?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-07-14, 10:46:29


The show so far:

On the Democrat side, we have Hillary Clinton and a couple of trial-horses. Seriously, the contenders only make it so that Hillary's eventual winning of the Democratic nomination isn't a coronation.

On the Republican side--- some 15 contenders for nomination. Add 5 more, give them pitchforks and torches, and they're good to go as an angry, frightened mob. Make Donald Trump their spokesperson for real fun.

Of that lot, Scott Walker from Wisconsin, the governor of Louisiana (I forget his name) and-- God help us-- Jeb Bush are the only ones seriously worth considering. The rest fill out the angry, frightened mob.

We're in an awful lot of trouble.

I have to admit that I'm just a clueless person from over the pond who tries to understand something about this circus, called US electoral campaign.
Granted that the new candidates might not be any better presidents than their predecessors, what on earth makes you think that Hillary Clinton is worse than Barack Obama or Jeb Bush is worse than his brother George?
So, what's the big drama?


I won't speak for others, but in my case I really don't want to see another Bush or Clinton in the White House for a long, long, long time. Send these two dynastic families home! The idea that the President must be either a Bush or a Clinton-- with a break for Obama-- gets old fast. Especially when the families in question are marginal in everything except government power-grabbing.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2015-07-14, 11:35:51
Quote
Dynastic  Politic 


Well ,  it is so relieving to know that kind of thing not just happening in here .  :coffee:

on the other hand , i think in any kind of Election .

it  will much better to Support those who mostly will win the Election .

so in the end of election , we do not have to reasoning   about why " the Candidate "  Lost in Election .




Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-07-14, 16:09:52

I won't speak for others, but in my case I really don't want to see another Bush or Clinton in the White House for a long, long, long time.


Ya'know? The more things change the more...  :sing:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzLXYENyJMQ[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-14, 18:34:50
The idea that the President must be either a Bush or a Clinton-- with a break for Obama-- gets old fast.

Pick some alternatives.
On the Republican side...
1. Scott Walker
2. Ben Carson
3. Chris Christie
4. Mitt Romney

On the Democrat side...
1. Lincoln Chafee
2. Martin O'Malley
3. Bernie Sanders
4. Jim Webb.
5. -Clinton
===============
Carson won't work because there's something in the Constitution about two Black presidents in a row.

Of course, there's another option.
(https://weeklyworldnews.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/election_day_cancel2.jpg?w=375&h=200)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2015-07-14, 21:34:57
Quote
Pick some alternatives.
On the Republican side...
1. Scott Walker
2. Ben Carson
3. Chris Christie
4. Mitt Romney

On the Democrat side...
1. Lincoln Chafee
2. Martin O'Malley
3. Bernie Sanders
4. Jim Webb.
5. -Clinton


isnt that too many Option ?

i thought each partij only allowed to propose one pair of candidate .

A president , and Vice president . 

the Partij ,
i guess... will Give that position for those that Have good respond from the Public .

because hence .. they need to got as many Voice as possible to win the election .


so it seem , it is not who will we choose as alternative .

but who will Republican nor Democrat Choose as the President and Vice President Candidate .
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-07-14, 22:32:44
The land of the Republic, Freedom and Whatsoever tries to create their "monarchic" dynasties. Pathetic.
Good work Mexican Cartels keep them on dope.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-07-15, 02:56:59
i know it is too early ..
but is there any Valid Survey about Who will Win the   President Election in  United State 2016 ?

ofc , it is a must from the Credible -  trusted  -  Provable - surveyor , with  lesser margin of error .

Predicting the outcome of an event without a causal model is voodoo science… (In other words: Statistics mean squat. Reality rules! Still, the statisticians will make a lot of money!)
There are opinions, based upon experience or ideology. But there is no way to predict the outcome of an election; people have to vote, first. And then argue about the tally.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2015-07-15, 03:04:28
Sciences  ( Natural And Social ) are so advanced Nowadays .

and  Credible Surveyor ,  really can Predict who will Win the President election  one year before the Official result announced  .

not sure , how they do that .. 
it seems with technique sampling , Statistics , etc .

IDC how they make money , at least they can Predict it accurately .
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-07-15, 04:07:23
From this side of the Pacific it appears that Mr. Trump is destroying the Republican brand. Could he? Will he?
If you told me that he is taking lessons from Tony Abbott I would believe you.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-07-15, 04:18:05
From this side of the Pacific it appears that Mr. Trump is destroying the Republican brand.
The leadership in the House and Senate have effectively done that already. :)
I doubt Trump can win the primary; it is, however, a disheartening possibility that he might mount a third-party run — and play the "spoiler" to a good Republican candidate. :sigh:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-07-15, 06:50:04
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motherjones.com%2Ffiles%2Fascreen_shot_2015-07-14_at_2.53.28_pm.jpg&hash=02522310c29ec9215f9f1cf9c34457d7" rel="cached" data-hash="02522310c29ec9215f9f1cf9c34457d7" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.motherjones.com/files/ascreen_shot_2015-07-14_at_2.53.28_pm.jpg)
WW2 German Waffen-SS - advertised in the US election campaign 2015/2016  :o
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-15, 10:17:51
Quote
WASHINGTON — Donald Trump has surged to the top of a crowded Republican presidential field, a USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll finds, but the brash billionaire is also the weakest competitor among the top seven GOP candidates against Democrat Hillary Clinton.

Just give it a little time and Trump will bump in the night.
BTW, look closely at the fifth stripe down in Krake's post...Nazi soldiers marching! Oh, my.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-07-15, 23:04:31
I would love to see that clown as American President...
Or any of the others on the queue, truth to be said. There's no difference.
I just would ask for not more blacks but it seems that Americans are already taking care of that.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-07-16, 01:11:05
Somehow the idea of Trump as a business leader and POTUS does not inspire great confidence in this DnD poster.

Trump is the guy who managed to lose money OWNING a casino. That takes doing. Anybody can lose money playing the games at a casino, but as everybody knows "The house always wins". So-- if you own the house and you LOSE--- how are you going to be any good at being POTUS.

I dunno---- maybe Trump plans to fire Putin?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jseaton2311 on 2015-07-16, 02:20:25
I just would ask for not more blacks

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-16, 20:23:27
I would love to see that clown as American President...

Said the man who lives in Europe's clown.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2015-07-19, 20:28:31
Donald Trump

hmm..

The gimmick  is strong with this one  :spock:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-07-20, 07:46:46
As is known the system is a joke and that is epitomised by Trump.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2015-07-20, 19:08:48
Quote
As is known the system is a joke


AFAIK , the U.S political climate  is separated in two stream .
Conservative and Liberal .

if in UK , probably it is similar with Right wing and Left wing .

which pejoratively , the one always appeal to novelty .
while the other always appeal to tradition .
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-07-21, 03:12:04
Kind of too simple to equate a right and left here mean something different than over the pond. We have right, left and liberal so a wider choice. Mind you to state that in the US it is right v liberal is a bit wide it is Wall Street that really runs the system.No matter who wins the DC circus the tens of millions of poor over there will stil be there so doesn't matter a fig who wins.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2015-07-21, 05:45:01
i thought , Left wing is always Liberal , and Liberal is always Left winger .

in very rare case , some groups perhaps hybrid that .

Right wing Liberal

nor Left Wing Conservative


eventhought , that   mostly will be so moron as oxymoron .
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-07-22, 01:48:11
Well in a general sense liberal would be left leaning to be fair. The two main wings of right and left mean different things in our two countries.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-07-22, 06:41:14
And different things at different times. Most conservatives in contemporary America are "classical" Liberals… :) (While most Liberals are Progressives, i.e., statists relying upon managerial expertise! What could go wrong? :( )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-07-22, 07:00:28
Anything is possible. It was almost axiomatic that there could never be a Catholic president, and along came Kennedy.
Of course he wasn't VERY Catholic.
Even more unthinkable was the thought of a black president, but Lo, along came Obama.
Once again, not VERY black.
And now, mirabile dictu, the very real possibility of a female president.
Not, of course, VERY female.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-07-22, 07:42:58
:) You've left me speechless, tt92! (I recently heard Glen Beck's substitutes comment that Ben Carson has no chance of being elected… Because "we can't have two black presidents in a row: It's in the Constitution!" :)

If one can't take politics facetiously, what's the point?!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2015-07-22, 10:48:43
if most liberals is progressive .

is most  Conservatives is Reactionary ?



Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-07-22, 10:55:20

Quote
As is known the system is a joke


AFAIK , the U.S political climate  is separated in two stream .
Conservative and Liberal .

if in UK , probably it is similar with Right wing and Left wing .

which pejoratively , the one always appeal to novelty .
while the other always appeal to tradition .

It's more complicated than you may think.
Keep in mind that raping words is an usual habit when it comes to politics and ideology. No wonder that the same notion can mean different things depending on which continent or in which country it is used.

An example, probably not the best but even so may help you to get the picture:
Conservative or Liberal? It's all a matter of where you live in the world (http://pinione.blogspot.de/2010/03/conservative-or-liberal-its-all-matter.html)

BTW, an example from Germany (it might apply for other countries as well).
"To reform" something means generally something good, to make something better.
Therefore politicians have raped this word in order to give some unpopular decisions a positive connotation.
Only two examples:
reforms of the social sytem = cuts in social spending
reforms of the labor market = less rights for employees
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2015-07-22, 12:18:07
well ,  it is easy to detect someone is Corservative or liberal if the one live in the U.S

in example ; those that support second amandment aka Gun Rights is conservative .
and those that support LGBTQ marriage is liberal .

so it is save to say , Smileyface is conservative .


on the other hand the Executive ( The President ) is just execute whatever that writed in the Constitution .

so he/she is a must to be a hypocrite  ( Liberal and conservative )

since , the constitution produced by the Legislative , which separated in two kind .
Liberal and conservative .


but , if the one live in Multipartij country  ( Not Dual Partij ) .

i guess that kinda hard to analyse .

in example ; my country .

it have multipartij,   it is separated in two streams ---> Coalition A and Coalition B .

Where , inthe Coalition A  there are   Conservative partij ,  and Liberal partij  .

and inthe Coalition B  there are also Conservative partij and  Liberal partij .
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-22, 12:25:11
The latest poll, conducted by ABC News and the Washington Post, shows Trump with a commanding lead: 24% of registered Republicans and Republican-leaning independents, compared with 13% for the Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker and 12% for the former Florida Governor, Jeb Bush.
==================
I know it won't happen, but if it did, Trump would be the Democrats' guarantee of victory. Lordy, the man attacked McCain! He's no hero, The Donald declared.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic2.businessinsider.com%2Fimage%2F5581678aecad04046653bd28-700-875%2Fdn%2520trump.jpg&hash=7e2d459e8e147b9a762052363690f3a7" rel="cached" data-hash="7e2d459e8e147b9a762052363690f3a7" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5581678aecad04046653bd28-700-875/dn%20trump.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-07-22, 13:46:07

Lordy, the man attacked McCain! He's no hero, The Donald declared.

Out of curiosity, I'll ask you a question and promise not to argue, whatever your answer will be.
Do you consider McCain a hero?
In case you do, what makes him a hero? The fact that he was taken prisoner (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/mccain-and-the-pow-cover-up/) or the fact that he fought in Vietnam?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-22, 19:04:14
Frankly, I don't give a damn, but I don't think that being a prisoner makes a man a hero.

What I think is that Trump is a fool who will do the Republicans harm if this silliness goes on to much further. Not being sympathetic to the Republican Party's agenda, I hope he keeps it up. With the passage of time I'm certain that his present popularity will dwindle and he'll end up in the ash pile of history.
(https://cdn-webimages.wimages.net/0519896a1921db79919503a996ba69c56db90e-wm.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2015-07-22, 19:11:51
btw , when they will officially announce the President and vice president candidate , from both partijs?

republican and democrat .

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-07-23, 01:13:44
I am of course no fan of McCain whilst thinking that would-be joke was a bit out of kilter. The whole political system seems to be something less than it sholud be.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-07-23, 01:17:08

btw , when they will officially announce the President and vice president candidate , from both partijs?

republican and democrat .


There are a couple of conventions where that will be decided once and for all. Look for the announcements along about July or early August of 2016. Then the race heats up for the general election in November.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-07-23, 01:21:46
I could imagine that a lot of stand-up comedians are hoping for a Donald Trump victory come November 2016. Man--- think of the daily material coming from the Oval Office for free! Any pundit that couldn't make hay from "The Donald"s pronouncements should be fired as hopelessly incompetent.

I hope Trump gets out of the race, personally. Comedy aside, it would be a great tragedy for the country if he gets anywhere near the Oval Office.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2015-07-23, 07:17:26
hmm ...
i could imagine ... when there are surveys and polls ' who's the winner of 2016 election '


the statistics from credible surveyor  shows + 10% gap between candidate A and candidate B .

in example -->   A = 60% , B = 30%


with + 3% margin of error
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-23, 10:42:27
I hope Trump gets out of the race, personally. Comedy aside, it would be a great tragedy for the country if he gets anywhere near the Oval Office.

For shame, sir! The Donald has an estimated net worth of $4.1 billion. As president, he'd make only $400,000/year. What's a billionaire to do?

Imagine the Koch brothers as Sec. of Defense and Sec. of the Treasury. Combined they make $3 million dollars per hour.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-07-24, 00:22:08
I think that mjsmsprt40 does have a definitive point about Trump and only wish there was a better choice for you folks there.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-07-24, 05:50:09
After being beaten by such an artificial candidate as Obama it would be vital to Republicans to gain the indisputable representativity of the Nation. As the world can astonishingly assist they can't get anything better than a piece of excrement.

It's obvious that political parties don't exist anymore, just a farce hiding the true centers of decision of the new totalitarianism.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-24, 20:07:26
This just in! Obama might not leave office!
I wasn't sure where to post this, here or The Worst People thread. Alex Jones is the ninny and American conspiracy theorist. Enjoy.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w9UlZcWaRI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w9UlZcWaRI[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-07-26, 08:45:39
Well Belfrager as I have often said there is no proper democracy and system in America it is run by the corporates and what passes for a "system" is a front to fol the people away from the real rulers of the country. When you watch what passes for some vague type of party conferences (really just jamorees and so juvenile) and the whole thing looks so damn juvenile.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-07-26, 20:01:09

Well Belfrager as I have often said there is no proper democracy and system in America it is run by the corporates and what passes for a "system" is a front to fol the people away from the real rulers of the country. When you watch what passes for some vague type of party conferences (really just jamorees and so juvenile) and the whole thing looks so damn juvenile.

That Bru must be powerful stuff.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-07-26, 23:12:46
Irn Bru as a previous advert used to sate - made from girders. But it doesn't take much to assess what passes for a system over the pond except for the poor folk who live there. Mind you when one sees what the land of the kangaroo puts in for a Prime Minister we can add a long sigh.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-27, 06:53:09
Sez the Edinburgh Man! Rj, you're like the proverbial broken record. No substance, just bloviating rhetoric over and over and over. You remind me of The Donald.
====================
Take a look at this for a sense of what I mean.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sunday-donald-trump-showed-why-193000314.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sunday-donald-trump-showed-why-193000314.html)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-07-27, 17:38:01
One takeaway thought from that link in Jimbro's post:

Trump is mentally ill and should not have firearms. Or the oval office. Or the Republican nomination.

OK, that's at least 3 takeaway thoughts. Still--- Trump is not a well man, and the sooner he's off the national stage the better.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-07-27, 20:25:37
The last line of the article should read:
Quote
[When] Why he begins to be required to answer substantive questions – and to defend his answers – in a forum he doesn’t control, The Donald may just end up firing himself.
Which point is not so obvious, since Trump's ego is the proverbial steel trap

Perhaps he'll end up still quite rich but residing next-door to Napoleon! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-27, 21:45:24
Trump is mentally ill and should not have firearms.

Nobody mention that to Smileyfaze!
=============================
Perhaps he'll end up still quite rich but residing next-door to Napoleon!

There's always the next Mars mission.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-07-27, 23:31:59
No substance jimbro?? Dear, oh dear it is a disappointment when even an intelligent ex-colonist goes into that mode. It does not take much intelligence nor an long indepth study to see that people like McCain and Trump are numpties. A school failure can see that direction so no point in trying to create some false assessment of routing practicality matters.  I know it doesn't show your system in a very good light but don't get desperate. The hard truth for you and others is that it does not matter one iota of a damn who goes into the White House as the most important position the country will still want to rule the world via ridiculous military expenditure, interference, the tens of millions of starving and poor inside will still be there and the corporate controllers run the place no matter what stuff we get here. Indeed the very fact that a man like Trump is in the running with support and McCain had it says more than you can ever try to do dismissing any objection as not informed or deep enough.

On a wider scale than you are pontificating on the voting percentage in the last general elections on the 'Hill show that an awful lot of people have got fed up with what they are stuck with.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-07-28, 02:23:44

No substance jimbro?? Dear, oh dear it is a disappointment when even an intelligent ex-colonist goes into that mode. It does not take much intelligence nor an long indepth study to see that people like McCain and Trump are numpties. A school failure can see that direction so no point in trying to create some false assessment of routing practicality matters.  I know it doesn't show your system in a very good light but don't get desperate. The hard truth for you and others is that it does not matter one iota of a damn who goes into the White House as the most important position the country will still want to rule the world via ridiculous military expenditure, interference, the tens of millions of starving and poor inside will still be there and the corporate controllers run the place no matter what stuff we get here. Indeed the very fact that a man like Trump is in the running with support and McCain had it says more than you can ever try to do dismissing any objection as not informed or deep enough.

On a wider scale than you are pontificating on the voting percentage in the last general elections on the 'Hill show that an awful lot of people have got fed up with what they are stuck with.

The esteemable Mr. Howie in every thread (were he an American):

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOGoCb0SKrU[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-28, 11:15:17
The hard truth for you and others is that it does not matter one iota of a damn who goes into the White House as the most important position the country will still want to rule the world via ridiculous military expenditure, interference, the tens of millions of starving and poor

Terrible to say, but we all have our problems.
Quote
Leading Public Health Experts and Charities warn that Austerity Measures and Poverty in the UK are about to cause a Public Health Emergency with widespread Starvation and Malnutrition.

Six of the UK’s leading experts on public health have published an open letter in the British Medical Journal (BMJ), warning that food poverty in the UK has developed into an emergency. Also charities recognize and exponential increase of people asking for help, tripling the use of food banks in the last year alone.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2015%2F05%2F03%2F00%2F283E548000000578-0-The_Duchess_of_York_has_created_a_selection_of_quintessentially_-m-21_1430610707229.jpg&hash=57daaa5431ca2510d5da001f02434cd9" rel="cached" data-hash="57daaa5431ca2510d5da001f02434cd9" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/03/00/283E548000000578-0-The_Duchess_of_York_has_created_a_selection_of_quintessentially_-m-21_1430610707229.jpg)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2014%2F11%2F02%2F1414969427878_Image_galleryImage__Licensed_to_London_News_.JPG&hash=021c3dad6a113f33b53aede2aa709999" rel="cached" data-hash="021c3dad6a113f33b53aede2aa709999" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/02/1414969427878_Image_galleryImage__Licensed_to_London_News_.JPG)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-02, 19:59:13
Your corner is still worse not having a welfare state.

Indeed when you stop the million a year losing homes, 40 million on food stamps, tens of millions with education problems even basically and trillions in debt then spout. Immigrants here do okay sadly like that woman with the begging stuff and the now ex-Labour Leader doing that money drop for scurrilous filming reasons. The would-be liberal minds jump on the nonsense about poverty which is nothing like poverty in the ex-colonies and when you see the size of our welfare bill it only proves my point hence why so many immigrants instead of doing the UN rules and applying to the first country cross the world to come to Britain because of the generosity. Your mindset will feel comfortable jumpiness on the Guardian paper mind-setting and people who are less well off will always stay here and would not want what happens in the good ole US of A.

Nice to try and rift off the thread theme on a nonsense ticket and the hard fact is that for tens of millions of Americans it doe not matter a damn who wins that daft carnival Presidential farce it will make no difference to those in the stats I mention. I have worked in both my job and vastly voluntary work in less off areasso know the actual  and they are still damn better than across the pond.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-03, 09:59:15
I have worked in both my job and vastly voluntary work in less off areasso know the actual  and they are still damn better than across the pond.

Once again in English please.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileyfaze.tk%2Fslides%2FDizzy.gif&hash=1ed16c5c5ed30a9ccadc0a7b3bd3f46c" rel="cached" data-hash="1ed16c5c5ed30a9ccadc0a7b3bd3f46c" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://smileyfaze.tk/slides/Dizzy.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-03, 20:59:44
I hope this time you got an yellow president.
The next one should be an aborigine. Then, a pygmy.
After that, a gay one.

All the best for American democracy.  :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-04, 00:15:07
How about a gay Portuguese president with an aboriginal wife and a yellow pygmy child.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-04, 13:33:52
Either a clever bodyswerve or a lack there jimbro!

Considering it took corporate land, oops, America well over two centuries to get a black or even part black President not a very great strength to rubbish Portugal!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-04, 16:13:19
I'm waiting for a Paki PM.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-06, 11:12:14
Nice try but you are the country that boasts to the world on it's great democracy, freedoms and all the would-be principles. Trouble is that such boasting is a load of rubbish. You would have a better strong point if there was not so much hypocrisy in the face. Trouble is too many ex-colonists just shut a blind eye to what they don't like being reminded of.

Poor try.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-06, 13:35:27
Our would-be principles are better than your would-be principles.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4-W_dBY3y_jSFpWZknhQamtL1kvhC0mh-Zu6sZ0DfFsk7tG85nw)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-08, 17:38:42
Yes very amusing of course.

Now the Republicans have 10 candidates to the farce that is meant to be a system. It does not make a twopenny damn which of the 2 lots win the carnival as the corporates pull the strings. People are so gullible and get all steamed up, flag daft, slap hands on hearts and so on but the poor and less in the great democracy do not decline.  Hhhm, maybe on hindsight jimbro you are right to be amusing because the practicalities of too many have been covered up by all that jingoism and greatest ion the world farcical stuff.

Traditionally you lot over there in nutjob land have tended to be brained into the fact that the terrible Republicans are in the pocket of the corporate people but when you look at what the Democrats got at the last Presidential it is an area that is more equal. Now that what passes for a legal system okays no limit to expenditure maybe Trump is entitled to a place being one of the system controlling maniacs! When the farce is all over will the tens of millions of poor and homeless the military world control costs and so on decrease? Nope.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-08-09, 04:34:02
Surely Donald Trump could never make it to the White House.
But there is a worrying fact. His co-star in "Bedtime for Bonzo" did.
:monkey:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-08-09, 05:46:30
The "Donald" is a chimp!? :) Howie, please put forward your platforms or politicians you think we'd have done better with… If that's too complicated for you: You'll be dead soon (and, hence, not care…) so, which of your countrymen/women would you put up for us? Assuming your animosity is just assumed, to post on the Internet… In other words, what does anyone you know of think we should do?
Follow GB down the sink hole, with the rest of Europe? :) (You'd like that, I think! But, boy-o, it might not happen!) You've got your soapbox, and you're entitled to it. You've also been roundly and soundly rejected, as a candidate… Can you not take a hint?
You know little, and can express less… Why do you have such animosity for a country you know so little about? (Penis envy? :) ) My advice is: Don't be a pecker-peeker!
—————————————————————
Yes, I know, tt92. You made the comment: But it was worthy of Howie… I calls them as I sees them!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-08-09, 06:22:19

The "Donald" is a chimp!? :) Howie, please put forward your platforms or politicians you think we'd have done better with… If that's too complicated for you: You'll be dead soon (and, hence, not care…) so, which of your countrymen/women would you put up for us? Assuming your animosity is just assumed, to post on the Internet… In other words, what does anyone you know of think we should do?
Follow GB down the sink hole, with the rest of Europe? :) (You'd like that, I think! But, boy-o, it might not happen!) You've got your soapbox, and you're entitled to it. You've also been roundly and soundly rejected, as a candidate… Can you not take a hint?
You know little, and can express less… Why do you have such animosity for a country you know so little about? (Penis envy? :) ) My advice is: Don't be a pecker-peeker!
—————————————————————
Yes, I know, tt92. You made the comment: But it was worthy of Howie… I calls them as I sees them!

If you thought it was worthy of Howie then you didn't see it very clearly.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-08-09, 06:32:03
If you thought it was worthy of Howie then you didn't see it very clearly.
If you thought it worthy of posting then you didn't think about it at all: All prejudice and no reasoning.
Also, no recognition of commonly known facts… Rachael Maddow-worthy! (I could name a few others… Indeed, I'd add the Fox news-babe who hosted the main event Republican primary debate.*)
By all means, express your disdain for individual politicians, parties, and even countries. But don't be stupid doing so.

So, whom did you refer to, tt92? :) (Put up or shut up!) I'll continue if you will.

[We no longer have a whisper function, so I'll have to trust you and others not to reveal the fact that I know you called Trump a chimp and, by implication, Ronald Reagan merely his co-star… Despicable, and probably something even Trump wouldn't sink to. Or I misunderstood: Would you explain?]
———————————————————————————————————
* Although I thought it was "really cute" that the info-babe who hosted the Kiddie Table debate thought it was Ronald Reagan who said "We have nothing to fear but fear itself!"
Maybe she was a Rhodes Scholar!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-09, 08:50:43
When the farce is all over will the tens of millions of poor and homeless the military world control costs and so on decrease?

Your numbers on the tens of millions of homeless are a tad off.
Quote
On any given night, there are over 600,000 homeless people in the US according to the US Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD).  Most people are either spending the night in homeless shelters or in some sort of short term transitional housing.  Slightly more than a third are living in cars, under bridges or in some other way living unsheltered.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-08-09, 10:02:42
(I assume, Jaybro, that you are speaking to others who might read posts here. RJ has shown no inclination to do simple sums, multiplications or division. Although he has a penchant for divisiveness; perhaps that's why he wasn't elected, the two times he stood… :) Please don't try to confuse him with facts: He doesn't like them!)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-09, 10:54:58
The usual comment level by Oakdale and tt92 only enhance my appraisal of both. They don't make much of an impression on the general world and probably are never taken much notice of. In contrast I have been involved in civic affairs, dome indepth community work i my job and voluntarily. Forums give people like thee two chumps the opportunity to try and impress knowing they will never be known in detail.

That so many big money people want to be President is beyond their narrow outlook. I said a while ago that even Ike when President and him a Republican warned America of the growing influence of the corporates but you lot are so thick so do try and get out the house a bit more into the real world.

Always boasting about how the country is the best and greatest in the world the tiny mindsets of these two reflect millions who are brained into propaganda and flag waving childishness. The laughable legal system allows unlimited expense on elections and the ordinary folk who cannot think for themelves (not all of course) never stop to think the truth. The gap between corporates and the ordinary Joe are not just widening but galloping. It does't help the millions losing homes,the tens of millions of poor,trillions on military empirical nonsense, millions who have education problems  and so on.

It is the norm to slag off my stance because what I say is in practical terms too true but like many over the water you are mentally incapable of seeing the truth. So instead resort to rubbishing and detraction like a redneck  mentality. Time after time you do not answer the charges made on what I list here or have in the past. It does not suit you warped view of the world and your own land so the usual tripe is to ridicule, sneer and so on. It only for the brighter brains here show how crassly stupid you two are. Try answering mny charges on the way the country is run and that terrible list of negatives  but you cannot. Flags everywhere, propaganda media, greatest country in the world and all the other tripe. So call me what you like and continue to prove my point and I will keep listing all the sad and despicable things going on in the country until you answer them. It is one thing thinking you are the greatest but when you see how the place is run internally and the tens of millions struggling in a place that hangs onto flags everywhere (shows immaturity).

Both the two juggernauts parties that carve the country up are full of corporates and when you consider that the Democrats corporate money at the last election was way up there shows how corrupt the system is. No-one else can get a look-in.There are more corporate money influencers working around the DC Hill than civil servants so tells you something else. You both give the country a bad name so sneer and mouth away because you two have a mental appraisal and political knowledge of a kindergarten child. Corporates do control your system and they are there in the front line and small wonder that as I said a while back at the Hill elections the voting percentage was not impressive. Many people do realise what has been going on and that America is controlled by the money barons and frustrated so why bother voting?? Those money tycoons don't care a damn about the ordinary Joe and that is why so many are suffering inside the country when they get propagated by the diabolical nonsenes of being the greatest country and an outstanding democracy to follow..

So keep buying flags, maintain Fox mentality, refuse to answer the in the face truth and do keep up the slagging as you are proving my point.  :knight:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-08-09, 12:15:11
RJ--- you've run for office twice and got defeated both times. I reckon that proves that the system in Glasgow works. :D
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-10, 17:42:48
Our system does work mjsmsprt it is yours that is deeply flawed. It does not stop all the unfortunate legions in the ex-colonies nor the corporate controllers. Stop lecturing the world when your place is so badly run and lacks principle.  :D
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-10, 20:11:33
Our system does work mjsmsprt it is yours that is deeply flawed.

Can you explain that? What is it that you mean? How does it affect my life and that of mjmsprt? Or that of any  other American who posts here. Start with me.

My wife and I are retired and living on Social Security and my retirement program. We own a house and a car. How could that be in our flawed system. Are you better off with your Putinesque system? Are you living that much better than the flood of unwanted immigrants who are making their way through the Chunnel? And other ways!
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gulf-times.com%2FNewsImages%2F%2F2015%2F6%2F24%2F55515001-1d96-48d7-bfa1-9c979a376bae.jpg&hash=d28e25ce6d3aaf471d20d312c59a51cc" rel="cached" data-hash="d28e25ce6d3aaf471d20d312c59a51cc" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.gulf-times.com/NewsImages//2015/6/24/55515001-1d96-48d7-bfa1-9c979a376bae.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-08-10, 20:26:05
1. You pretend to take him seriously.
2. You really DO take him seriously.
3. There is a third possibility.
Just curious.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-10, 20:46:35
1. No
2. No
3. No
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-08-10, 21:41:18

Are you better off with your Putinesque system?

The UK a Putinesque system?
You are a retired teacher. Aren't you?
And since you are:


Are you living that much better than the flood of unwanted immigrants who are making their way through the Chunnel? And other ways!

Ever asked yourself for the reason of the late flood of unwanted immigrants who are making their way through the Chunnel? And other ways!
Syria, Libya, Sudan etc. Hint, hint!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-10, 21:56:36
I understand the flood perfectly well. We have our own flood, but few are from the Middle East.

The Putinesque reference is for the benefit of Mr. Howie who is a fan of Vladimir, and because Mr. Howie blathers on endlessly about how so many in the West don't understand him.

For Crimean-out-loud, I do!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-08-10, 22:09:56

I understand the flood perfectly well.

Fine :) Then I don't have to goe into unpleasant details ...


We have our own flood, but few are from the Middle East.

Geographically, Europe is closer to the Middle East and to Africa.
So no wonder that the stench coming from the shit we are doing there will hit our noses harder.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-11, 09:15:08
 :D
Our flood is from Mexico, but we do have some Middle Eastern friends.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-11, 17:05:59
No you don't understand Putin at all jimbro. You grew up in the braining of the Cold War mind and have never shaken it. When you see the abject hypocrisy of a country that boasts over the globe about freedom, rights, peace but in practice does the opposite of all of them so kind of makes your point, well pointless. You have a drag on  of your own boy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2015-08-12, 15:47:06

Ever asked yourself for the reason of the late flood of unwanted immigrants who are making their way through the Chunnel? And other ways!
Syria, Libya, Sudan etc. Hint, hint!


There are not many coming from Libya, small country, but many are passing by Libya as a transit country. The big uptake of refugees is from Ethiopia and Eritrea, communist countries of sorts that have turned into despotic-regimes-for-life. The Syrian despotic-regime-for-life is unravelling and is bleeding people.

This BBC report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b063yqq9) is from my home town of Södertälje, with the Swedish migration minister's criticism of Cameron and British migration policies towards Calais.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-12, 21:33:53
I am rather tired of the guff we get from the would-be open and concerned mind people. The otthe night a female liberal commentator being interviewed said we should be very concerned about the immigrants and help them in here. I bet a fortunate she does not live in the areas they take over here nor anywhere near such. oWhat the clown totally ignores is that this is an essentially small country and simply cannot keep taking people in a great costs and let them live off the Welfare State. Another groan is that shops in Turkey are making a fortunate selling life-jackets. Small wonder so many indigenous Londoners move out and man as far from Londoninstan as possible.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-12, 21:52:41
We have our problems, too.
Quote
The Pew Hispanic Center's indirect estimate of the number of illegal immigrants as of 2006 was 11.5 million to 12 million. These estimates represented roughly one-third of the entire foreign-born population.

It's a big country with lots of room for more. I hope our Republican presidential candidates don't find out that I said that!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2015-08-16, 15:49:59
(https://vivaldi.net/media/com_easysocial/photos/5584/84043/fallofth1-2_original.jpg)
Can anyone tell me who the far-right statue is? Lenin? If yes, why him?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-16, 16:05:36
It's Lenin. If he was alive, he'd be a Democrat running with Hillary.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2015-08-16, 16:36:45

It's Lenin. If her were alive, he'd be a Democrat running with Hillary.

Says who and knows this how?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-16, 17:00:44
Jimbro knows all.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-08-16, 17:43:26

Jimbro knows all.


(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.support.roxio.com%2Fuploads%2Fmonthly_06_2010%2Fpost-68-023248700%25201277767082.png&hash=9bbbbde980ba3b660528e2072234094c" rel="cached" data-hash="9bbbbde980ba3b660528e2072234094c" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://forums.support.roxio.com/uploads/monthly_06_2010/post-68-023248700%201277767082.png)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-16, 20:09:36
Lenin? If yes, why him?

Because the author of the illustration is someone from the Tea Party or correlated areas. So he thinks Democrats are Leninist and actual Republicans traitors, so he painted them all together in an orgy. A puritan orgy, of course... kind of Oakdale whining about my wording.

Since when you saw anything from the US well done... forget it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-08-16, 22:13:54
America is controlled by the money barons and frustrated so why bother voting??


You don't get to raise your head up from Putin's lap and say any of that. True or not you advocate it when it's not American.

(I've got to quit reading your assclowning.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-08-16, 22:48:35




(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMgRrXei.jpg&hash=8cdeba475dc2b1f710f6d15d3227c61d" rel="cached" data-hash="8cdeba475dc2b1f710f6d15d3227c61d" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/MgRrXei.jpg)




(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)





Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-16, 23:08:44
Must say ensbb3 for a supposedly educated person (??) my description of your politcal excuse of a system is nonsnese?

A long time ago on the old opera thread and i think here too I mentioned that President Eisenhower a Republican publicly warned Americans of the danger of the rising corporate sector and that was all those years ago . You have a 2-party State that has both of them mired in big bucks people yeah the Democrats as well as the Republicans and now the exuse of a legal system says unlimited syums can be spent. There are many in America who do not want either Democrats or Republicans but if they vote for some smaller lot know they haven't a proverbial chance in Hell as money counts so they are stuck with the big 2. Not very democratic is it?  Every Presidential circus comes out with the same keech about the greatness of the country, it's wonderful place in the world (nice cover for internecine and war causing), flag waving and chest beating. And when it all dies down it is just the same old rubbish and the tens of millions of poor, homeless, un-insured, spied on by secret government runts (well into 6 figures now) still continue.

It is another revolution you want boy and one that is principled. Money is the control freakery and the elections a sop to keep you lot thinking you live in a wide democracy. Yea right!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-08-16, 23:22:17
Must say ensbb3

Apparently you must. But noting you said relates to what I said.

Pretty standard stuff from you. Incidentally, my dog also smells of asses and thinks he knows something from it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-08-17, 00:04:19



(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9i2JoJQ.gif&hash=89ecfa6ef5410d5828dc9c353d13bbd3" rel="cached" data-hash="89ecfa6ef5410d5828dc9c353d13bbd3" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/9i2JoJQ.gif)


(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/taunt.gif)




Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-19, 23:59:33
Well there is an answer from a typical US political animal.Shows the lack of common-sense, decency and much else. Tens of millions of poor and no proper representation of the people you lot are so juvenile and brain washed. And here is Smiley that wonderful patriotic Yank who actually supports Marxists elsewhere and not that far from me! Hypocrisy much be taught in schools over there.

It does not matter damn who is elected - Democrat or Republican as the gap between all will not change nor decent representation nor things improve, the trillions reduced and so on. Indeed what passes for politics and it's running looks so infantile, funny and useless and whilst you are brained into the greatest place on earth mentality the ordinary Joe is going nowhere. At least Laurel and Hardy and others were genuine.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-20, 09:24:51

Well there is an answer from a typical US political animal.Shows the lack of common-sense, decency and much else. Tens of millions of poor and no proper representation of the people you lot are so juvenile and brain washed. And here is Smiley that wonderful patriotic Yank who actually supports Marxists elsewhere and not that far from me! Hypocrisy much be taught in schools over there.

It does not matter damn who is elected - Democrat or Republican as the gap between all will not change nor decent representation nor things improve, the trillions reduced and so on. Indeed what passes for politics and it's running looks so infantile, funny and useless and whilst you are brained into the greatest place on earth mentality the ordinary Joe is going nowhere. At least Laurel and Hardy and others were genuine.
Speak louder, sir.
(https://hollywoodhatesme.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/ear-horn.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-08-21, 23:38:34
So long as this guy doesn't get elected--- we may still have a fighting chance.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.amuniversal.com%2Fd7e5f97029b60133ffab005056a9545d&hash=240403e3b50725d1f2257e215448814e" rel="cached" data-hash="240403e3b50725d1f2257e215448814e" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://assets.amuniversal.com/d7e5f97029b60133ffab005056a9545d)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-22, 01:30:46
I greatly sympathise with you mjsmsprt40 on your feelings on that man. He hasn't a clue about politics only at making money and due to his political ignorance has to fall back on ridiculous comments that are sometimes insulting or ignorant. doubt if his party would submit him.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-08-24, 03:47:18
We all hear everyone decrying what a farce the Republican debates were/are, but at least the people are seeing something.

In days long ago 90% of the electorate never personally saw the candidate(s), & only heard 3rd hand or worse what the candidates positions are/were/will be.

I wonder......has Slick Willy bought & paid for a Billery Coronation?

Regardless,  whatever the people may call them, does the DNC intend on holding any 'debates' ??

And the long list of shit that seems to be sticking to Hillery's sneakers ............

Does Hillery Rotthim Clinton have a


[glow=black,2,300] TRUST DEFICIT PROBLEM ?[/glow]


(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FoGiqaNR.png&hash=9603843318c662a80fa0949c77285952" rel="cached" data-hash="9603843318c662a80fa0949c77285952" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/oGiqaNR.png)


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-25, 01:19:04
Seeing something means dash all. None on both sides are very outstanding are they? Kind of shame for the millions left to sigh.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-25, 20:04:10
More good Republican news.
Quote
David Duke: Former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard Says Donald Trump Is 'Best of the Lot' for President
Duke said on his radio show that Trump is the best Republican presidential candidate because he “understands the real sentiment of America.” Duke ran for the Democratic nomination in 1988.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-25, 20:09:48
Kind of surprised that Duke wanted to be a Democrat contender so quite an insight.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-08-25, 23:35:48

Kind of surprised that Duke wanted to be a Democrat contender so quite an insight.


(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/Secrets004.gif)          (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/reading.gif)
[glow=blue,2,300]History Of The Democrats And The KKK.....(Why the Democrats started the KKK) [/glow]



Quote from:     http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2309727/posts    
........."Of all forms of violent intimidation, lynchings were by far the most effective," Barton said in his book. "Republicans often led the efforts to pass federal anti-lynching laws and their platforms consistently called for a ban on lynching. Democrats successfully blocked those bills and their platforms never did condemn lynchings."

Further, the first grand wizard of the KKK was honored at the 1868 Democratic National Convention, no Democrats voted for the 14th Amendment to grant citizenship to former slaves and, to this day, the party website ignores those decades of racism, he said.

"Although it is relatively unreported today, historical documents are unequivocal that the Klan was established by Democrats and that the Klan played a prominent role in the Democratic Party," Barton writes in his book. "In fact, a 13-volume set of congressional investigations from 1872 conclusively and irrefutably documents that fact......... SOURCE (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2309727/posts)




[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpezudbbZMA[/VIDEO]



More  dEMOCRAT   KKK  facts from the HISTORY CHANNEL (http://www.history.com/topics/ku-klux-klan)


The above isn't a fantasy, it is etched in fact that can't be refuted.......The KKK was founded & nourished as the strong arm of the dEMONRAT Party, the party of racism.......past & present.......period.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-08-26, 02:45:35
You're too genteel to mention it, Smiley, but it was vigorous defense of the 2nd Amendment that protected "new" black Americans from lynching… The "law" took quite a while to catch up.
(Remind me sometime to relay an incident from the '60s…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-26, 04:16:01
With a two-party corporate control it doesn't help the democracy side at all. I don't have any time for the KKK whilst at the same time wasn't it the case the founder did not have in mind what it eventually turned out to be?

That Democrats can be just as head shaking as much of the Republican corner illustrates some system oddity. On the other side  wasn't it the Republicans who were up to their ears in the un-American activities purges back in the 1950's? Some really odd situations altogether when you just observe.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-08-26, 06:43:03
On the other side  wasn't it the Republicans who were up to their ears in the un-American activities purges back in the 1950's?
You mean the Soviets infiltrating our government, trade unions, ngo's and industries being found out? :) Attempting to overthrow the U.S. government by subversion is — oh, what are the words I'm looking for? Hm. … Oh, yeah: An act of war!
Your Great Kingdom had so many Communists in positions of power that your tabloids gave up trying to keep track! (Not to mention, how many British were committed to the Red Cause…) But you'd become close enough to their views that nothing more was needed…
When you speak of our "purges" you show your extreme ignorance, RJ. Just because Joe McCarthy was a buffoon doesn't mean that his premise was wrong; in fact (in documented fact), he was right.

You're just sad we haven't yet become as Red as you-all!

What will you do, when the North Sea oil runs out? Sell Irn Bru? :) (Surely, the English will have given you the boot, by then… The Welsh don't matter. And the Irish will once again remain neutral, ever willing to cut off their nose to spite their face — which trait I suspect they got from your lot.) Of course, if you can see America in ruins before then, you'll be happy!
Dream on… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-26, 10:25:57
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30545300 (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30545300)
Is unemployment around the corner?
Quote
Around 375,000 people work in the UK oil industry and half of those are in north east Scotland.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-30, 01:20:17
Well Oakdale you have just proved your an imbecile head on. That the principle of Mccarthyism was okay? Duh. So it was okay to have the American Nazi party but not the Communists and you lot yak about being a democracy? Over there unless you are a Republican or Democrat you have no chance of anything outside of that hence the low vote at your last general election. We practice democracy whilst you talk about it as a country. Maybe you could explain why in a would-be democracy much of the control is by the millionaire set? Why a million a year lose homes, why 40 million out of 300 million are poor and living on food stamps, why you run a military you cannot afford but would rather spend on it and warring in the world than dealing with all those fellow citizens who are blighted? Rockwell would have been right up your street no problem.

On a more general note for sensible ex-colonists here (and I don't let a neo-fascist effect it) I note that the Vice-President is wondering if he should stand. As far as the Democrats are concerned he would probably be a better consideration than that stroppy mouthed female Clinton. Spying and intrigue was only done by the Sovetis? For goodness sake how stupid are you? U2 was an excursion that made a mistake perhaps. For a country that sniffs at monarchies you are well into aristocratic family stuff eh? She was hopeless in international affairs and wars as well as lying her damn head off. Maybe Biden would be less controversial and as for the republicans they are in joke land with a whole army of would-be candidates including idiots.  There are many sensible and decent folk in the ex-colonies who would (without being extremist) others on the Hill apart from the corporate controlled Democrats and republicans but those two have corrupted things beyond routine and decency. Both lie to the people and folk are stuck with a system that no longer suited the country in modern times.

One can only groan and hope that a real and wide democracy was to morph into such a military and corporate State - and before it goes bankrupt or the Commies in China call in their debts. People over there NEED a wider choice in Congress or Senate than they are getting.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-09-02, 04:13:03

Well Oakdale.....(old keech deleted)

Hey there old chap, remind us who rules the waves these days?




















But hey, at least "Britain never, never will be slaves...."eh?  :devil:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-09-02, 06:20:46
and before it goes bankrupt or the Commies in China call in their debts.


You hear this sometimes, usually in a rant of some kind... :whistle: ...But it doesn't seem likely. The Chinese can't do anything to devalue the currency they hold so much of. Not at this point anyway.

There's the optimistic view - That the "Commies" will collapse under capitalism and the US eventually settles that debt for cents on the dollar.  :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-03, 02:58:01
Ha ha nice one.

As for you Colonel Rebel just look at the mess you have made of ruling the waves. Up to your neck as a country in trillions of debt bu the armament manufacturers making sure they get their dollars. You cannot afford that military but you lot are so whacked into thinking you have some given right to rule the world. You even sail your "fleet" as near to mainland China as possible which shows your scurrilous lack of principle that the Reds have indirectly give you the chance to have the ships. A bit of goodness is that 3 or is it 4 Chinese navy ships are at present in the Baring Strait as near as to Alaska as they can so good to see someone playing your game in return. Oh, ho, you won't like that over there although you think it is okay for you to do it!

As for the nationalist heavy Oakdale wanting to deplete 'keech' I just say that really takes the biscuit as it is a great Scots word for that Americanism exported everywhere and namely 'crap.' I prefer not to be harnessed by American nonsense that others are propagated into like that crap word, awesome, law enforcement, etc.

Anyway the farce that the corporates allow and called an election will make no damn difference to the tens of millions of poor in America and it is bad enough seeing a whole army of Republicans wanting to be President but Clinton on the other side?? Neither party will be much different and that has been shown by Obama killing more by drones than GW, ignoring sovereign borders, creating more spying on US citizens who think they are free. Instead of running a giant miltary you cannot afford and insteadspending something on the increasing numbers suffering inside your own borders the problem will only be dealt with when you go belly up.

Mind you maybe you in a practical sense should reduce things militarily as a soldier commits suicicide every day and there are 10 million ex-colonists with well mental issues.

Thanks for reminding me.... :cheers:

ps. That is Irn Bru so don't get flashy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-09-03, 16:37:06

Ha ha nice one.

As for you Colonel Rebel just look at the mess you have made of ruling the waves. Up to your neck as a country in trillions of debt bu the armament manufacturers making sure they get their dollars. You cannot afford that military but you lot are so whacked into thinking you have some given right to rule the world. You even sail your "fleet" as near to mainland China as possible which shows your scurrilous lack of principle that the Reds have indirectly give you the chance to have the ships. A bit of goodness is that 3 or is it 4 Chinese navy ships are at present in the Baring Strait as near as to Alaska as they can so good to see someone playing your game in return. Oh, ho, you won't like that over there although you think it is okay for you to do it!

As for the nationalist heavy Oakdale wanting to deplete 'keech' I just say that really takes the biscuit as it is a great Scots word for that Americanism exported everywhere and namely 'crap.' I prefer not to be harnessed by American nonsense that others are propagated into like that crap word, awesome, law enforcement, etc.

Anyway the farce that the corporates allow and called an election will make no damn difference to the tens of millions of poor in America and it is bad enough seeing a whole army of Republicans wanting to be President but Clinton on the other side?? Neither party will be much different and that has been shown by Obama killing more by drones than GW, ignoring sovereign borders, creating more spying on US citizens who think they are free. Instead of running a giant miltary you cannot afford and insteadspending something on the increasing numbers suffering inside your own borders the problem will only be dealt with when you go belly up.

Mind you maybe you in a practical sense should reduce things militarily as a soldier commits suicicide every day and there are 10 million ex-colonists with well mental issues.

Thanks for reminding me.... :cheers:

ps. That is Irn Bru so don't get flashy.

3 responses:

1. "I" did none of that. Being as how you think generalization is a-ok, I'll just lump you into the Scots for Independence group, as generalizing is apparently your preferred way of doing things.

2. It wasn't Oakdale who used the word "old keech", it was I, and it was I who deleted your old keech ramblings so as to get back to the point.  :cheers:

3. Care to remind me whose Bank(s) are also employing Quantitive Easing as well? (Not that I expect you to know what it is of course)

Finally, what an awesome bunch of cops you no doubt have over there, who do not think their jobs are crap.  :devil: :devil: :devil:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-09-03, 19:20:01
Quote
Stomachs are churning again after China’s stockmarket endured its biggest one-day fall since 2007; even Chinese state media called August 24th “Black Monday”. From the rand to the ringgit, emerging-market currencies slumped. Commodity prices fell into territory not seen since 1999. The contagion infected Western markets, too. Germany’s DAX index fell to more than 20% below its peak. American stocks whipsawed: General Electric was at one point down by more than 20%.

Rich-world markets have regained some of their poise. But three fears remain: that China’s economy is in deep trouble; that emerging markets are vulnerable to a full-blown crisis; and that the long rally in rich-world markets is over. Some aspects of these worries are overplayed and others are misplaced. Even so, this week’s panic contains the unnerving message that the malaise in the world economy is real.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-09-03, 19:35:03
Mind you maybe you in a practical sense should reduce things militarily as a soldier commits suicicide every day and there are 10 million ex-colonists with well mental issues.

The ex-teacher in me can't bypass this any longer.
suicicide
with well mental issues
Mind you maybe you
=====================
From The Telegraph.
"More British soldiers commit suicide than die in battle, figures suggest."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-09-03, 21:40:42

From The Telegraph.
"More British soldiers commit suicide than die in battle, figures suggest."

This could be changed easily by starting new wars.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-09-03, 21:56:24
This could be changed easily by starting new wars.

I'm sure we will. Germany seems to have lost its appetite for war, but we may not have. Only time will tell.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-04, 17:32:56
Nice try about the number of solider deaths here by suicide and especially when they are in figures around the two dozen to 30 mark which is a hell of  of a way lower than 365.

Anyway on the Presidential farce procedure it does not matter whether the corporate Republicans or corporate Democrats win as it will not make a damn difference to ordinary Americans. Both parties are up to their ears in drones, war, destabilising and so on. Many sensible people know they are stuck with the system and any chance of another party getting in has as much chance as me kissing the Papal ring. I think that IS sad (the system not kissing the ring). This built-in and narrowed down system does not provide the people with what they should have and that is a broad based democracy. As many here on the forum re also aware the tradition of keeping up wars has a more background one of the money barons in the armament industry and whoever is voted into the White House will keep that going. Too many have had propaganda drummed into them by politicians and much of the media that is all about "security."  This is damnable and at the same time frustrating for the sensible minds.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-09-09, 06:16:19
Nice try about the number of solider deaths here by suicide and especially when they are in figures around the two dozen to 30 mark which is a hell of  of a way lower than 365.
RJ, if you commit suicide — that's 100% dead. If you have a brother and he does and you don't — that's 50%. If your military commit suicide —in proportion to others— what does that say? To you: Nothing; you don't deal with real-world problems! You were (and only could have been) a government employee: Playing with statistics is what kept you employed, and ignoring problems was how you made your living.

How many Scots are in your military? What percentage is two dozen or 30, compared with how many are in the U.S.'s military? (I know it's math! But, Geeze!, hadn't you got past the not eating paste and learning to color inside the lines level of education? I'll understand, that you never learned to write grammatical English: You aren't English! But you'd be ruled by them, because you know -deep down in your heart- all Scottish politicians are nuts! :) SNP seems to be one of your boogie-men. So: Do the math, or ask someone to do it for you…
What answer do you get?)
This built-in and narrowed down system does not provide the people with what they should have and that is a broad based democracy.
You mean, like electing and following the leadership of people like Nicola Sturgeon? :)
RJ, you are always hoist on your own petard! Had you sense enough to stay home and only protect your own, your attacks wouldn't likely injure you. The offense you suffer is of your own making: You're silly presumptions cause you to appear a goat looking for —any!— other to take its place!
That does make you seem ridiculous! You know? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-09, 19:06:35
This from a country that has Trump in the frame?

I live in a far wider democracy than you do and get out more. Trillions in debt and a massive military you cannot afford but that is a must or your corporate military supply industry will not be happy. And may i again remind you AGAIN as you don't seem to have lasting continuity that Scotland is part of Gt Britain and we do NOT have a separate army. With the cock-up your military made in South Vietnam and the laughable training of the Iraqi army keep your gas at a peep house hermit.

Anyway for the 40 plus million poor in the "greatest country in the world" ( :o), millions losing homes, people gunned down where is the progress inside the country? it doesn't happen and where it does it is amongst the corporate rich who run a system which lacks democracy and rights of the people. The stuff in that Constitution sounds good but in practice it has not worked for an awful long time. Clinton is a liar and a waste of space and I would not put her in charge of a midden never mind a country. As for the other lot laughing at them is not a direction but head shaking is.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-09-09, 19:14:55
This from a country that has Trump in the frame?

Let's not forget Salmond and Sturgeon. You must know that Trump is going nowhere, sad to say. He'd make an outstanding choice from the Democrat perspective.
Quote
The percentage of households falling below society's minimum standard of living in Scotland has increased from 14 per cent to 33 per cent over the last 30 years, despite the size of the economy doubling. This is one of the stark findings from the largest study of poverty and deprivation ever conducted in the UK.
...............
In Scotland today, when comparing people's actual living standards with the minimum standards which the public thinks everyone should have, researchers found:
almost one million people cannot afford adequate housing conditions
800,000 people are too poor to engage in common social activities
over a quarter of a million children and adults aren't properly fed

And that's out of a  population of 5,347,600.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-09-10, 00:39:33
Apparently only 432 people own over 90% of Scotland's private lands.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-09-10, 00:44:11

Apparently only 432 people own over 90% of Scotland's private lands.


Is anybody surprised? Much of the thinking is still feudal, with lairds owning great mansions and much of the land-- and serfs/freemen of one sort or another dependent upon the laird for their well-being.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-09-10, 14:46:55
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sd6.bc.ca%2Fgss%2Fduce%2Fss8%2Fhighmid2v2_files%2Fimage002.gif&hash=9143bc80881594f8aa9aa63d679ec72e" rel="cached" data-hash="9143bc80881594f8aa9aa63d679ec72e" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.sd6.bc.ca/gss/duce/ss8/highmid2v2_files/image002.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-09-11, 05:54:24


(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLTd4RsK.jpg&hash=3b286072d57452fa026979cf89c70bc2" rel="cached" data-hash="3b286072d57452fa026979cf89c70bc2" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/LTd4RsK.jpg)

Chickens comin' home ta roost? (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-09-11, 14:34:57
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ff.tqn.com%2Fy%2Fpoliticalhumor%2F1%2FS%2Fr%2F8%2F4%2FObama-Relativity.jpg&hash=b93f6c3c73a65c9f69cde8111b393eaf" rel="cached" data-hash="b93f6c3c73a65c9f69cde8111b393eaf" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://f.tqn.com/y/politicalhumor/1/S/r/8/4/Obama-Relativity.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-11, 19:11:44
Neither Sturgeon or Salmond are like Trump and fine you know it jimbro and is your way of trying to avoid how much of a laugh your country is in the world.

As for mjsmsprt40. He well emphasises the traditional American tradition of getting a wee bit of information and misusing it to hide the way America is run. May I remind him and other part knowledge gaspers that the vast areas that are so owned are hardly places that are part of routine society. Those estates are usually in places towns would not be visited especially in the mountainous areas of the Highlands. It is the usual ex-colonist simpleton brain use that does a body swerve from the way their own nut job land is run. Cities that go bankrupt, large numbers of homeless and poor that are supposed to be living in the world's greatest place ( dear, oh dear). If you lot had a wide and proper democracy instead of the farce run by corporates and Wall Street. Much of this country is not suitable for building on due to the geography but then with the duh education in the US that shows here hardly surprising!

As for the Presidential farce and which will be decided by the corporate money barons there isn't a decent candidate at all. Whoever is elected it will not make a damn difference to the trillions of debt the desperation to be militarily and imperial world rules the tens of millions of poor and so on.  Over two centuries and still never grown up!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-09-11, 19:59:14

Neither Sturgeon or Salmond are like Trump and fine you know it jimbro and is your way of trying to avoid how much of a laugh your country is in the world.

As for mjsmsprt40. He well emphasises the traditional American tradition of getting a wee bit of information and misusing it to hide the way America is run. May I remind him and other part knowledge gaspers that the vast areas that are so owned are hardly places that are part of routine society. Those estates are usually in places towns would not be visited especially in the mountainous areas of the Highlands. It is the usual ex-colonist simpleton brain use that does a body swerve from the way their own nut job land is run. Cities that go bankrupt, large numbers of homeless and poor that are supposed to be living in the world's greatest place ( dear, oh dear). If you lot had a wide and proper democracy instead of the farce run by corporates and Wall Street. Much of this country is not suitable for building on due to the geography but then with the duh education in the US that shows here hardly surprising!

As for the Presidential farce and which will be decided by the corporate money barons there isn't a decent candidate at all. Whoever is elected it will not make a damn difference to the trillions of debt the desperation to be militarily and imperial world rules the tens of millions of poor and so on.  Over two centuries and still never grown up!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-09-11, 23:22:49
Jimbro! Why the hell do you repeat rj's maniacal ill-informed mis-spelled ungrammatical gibberish?Is it to emphasise what utter drivel it is and expose the poor devil's shortcomings? Most of us realise it if we read it the first time.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: tt92 on 2015-09-11, 23:39:08
My apologies, Jimbro.
I have since read the rest of today's posts and find myself doing the same thing.
What a sad little slogan-chanter he is.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-09-12, 04:42:29
your way of trying to avoid how much of a laugh your country is in the world.
And yet your country is known for kilts and bagpipes… You're as silly as those who think so!
(Sillier, actually: You think you know something! The Oracle at Delphi would have deemed you the least wise of your kind, had you got off your sheep and asked… :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-12, 17:16:15
p if you wish like a couple of others dear big head but when you keep repeating your pomposity your argument gets weaker ewr all the time. So do stick to it. Considering my long history of public involvement and you lot are hoi-polloi trying to be something on a damn forum tells much too!

And dear Rockwell, oops, meant Oakdale. I have made it abundantly clear on the Opera and this Forum I am neither interested in kilts or bagpipes and prefer a good flute and drum band instead. So you are constantly flogging a dead horse dear man. And anyway there are vast numbers of your compatriots over there in nutjob land Oaky who are fanatics about pipes and kilts. This also includes your SS, sorry meant city police forces that have pipe bands and kilt so maybe you should think more before typing but I really must try and be concerned that you do not get enough fresh air through the grey cells.

As for the thread we all dash well know that the tens of millions of Americans who are suffering in that part democracy will see no change in their damned lives which is terrible. That is yet again something totally ignored here because a little clique wants a nice wee club and to side step the truth. It does not matter a two penny damn whether the Democrats or Republicans win the White House those millions will not have any positive help because both parties are hand in glove with the corporates who really run the country. That they run both Houses on the 'Hill such a situation only emphasises the hypocrisy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Midnight Raccoon on 2015-09-12, 17:30:40
I have made it abundantly clear on the Opera and this Forum I am neither interested in kilts or bagpipes and prefer a good flute and drum band instead.

Don't you get it? If stereotypes of your to believed, your country would be full kilts, bagpipes, and sheep-shagging, wife-beating drunks. Likewise, the US defies its stereotypes far more then it affirms them.

Who's rockwell? :confused:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-09-13, 15:47:27

I have made it abundantly clear on the Opera and this Forum I am neither interested in kilts or bagpipes and prefer a good flute and drum band instead.

Don't you get it? If stereotypes of your to believed, your country would be full kilts, bagpipes, and sheep-shagging, wife-beating drunks. Likewise, the US defies its stereotypes far more then it affirms them.

Who's rockwell? :confused:


NOW you've got me scared. Can you REALLY not ever have heard of Norman Rockwell, the artist? He did a whole lot of pictures depicting American scenes around the 1940s and '50s, even into the Kennedy years. See here:

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads2.wikiart.org%2Fimages%2Fnorman-rockwell%2Fthe-runaway-1958.jpg&hash=3b28f3107b632b9a9be1243b8f103723" rel="cached" data-hash="3b28f3107b632b9a9be1243b8f103723" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://uploads2.wikiart.org/images/norman-rockwell/the-runaway-1958.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-09-13, 19:47:12
I think Mr. Howie is a secret SNP member and Red Socks wearer.  (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sectalk.com%2Fboard%2Fpublic%2Fstyle_emoticons%2Fdefault%2Ftrollface.gif&hash=665db6eec9584d69e6bd4e70d368aa3a" rel="cached" data-hash="665db6eec9584d69e6bd4e70d368aa3a" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.sectalk.com/board/public/style_emoticons/default/trollface.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-14, 02:04:37
Not surprised you are scared mjsmsprt4. I would be too living in such mad country as you do..... :devil: Neat dance by you too.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Midnight Raccoon on 2015-09-15, 09:31:40
NOW you've got me scared. Can you REALLY not ever have heard of Norman Rockwell, the artist?

Obviously I have. It would be bizarre for Howie to call Oakdale that, though :confused: In fact, that would be compliment. It would be like me being offended because someone called me Stephen King.
I think Mr. Howie is a secret SNP member and Red Socks wearer.  (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sectalk.com%2Fboard%2Fpublic%2Fstyle_emoticons%2Fdefault%2Ftrollface.gif&hash=665db6eec9584d69e6bd4e70d368aa3a" rel="cached" data-hash="665db6eec9584d69e6bd4e70d368aa3a" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.sectalk.com/board/public/style_emoticons/default/trollface.gif)

You are correct, sir! :cheers:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-09-16, 05:03:54
It would be bizarre for Howie to call Oakdale that, though  :confused:  In fact, that would be compliment.
Indeed, I have been a painter — but not very good. Certainly, not as good as Norman Rockwell; although he isn't high in my esteem… Still -as Sang says- I feel complimented!
I like his stuff. But he's no Rembrandt or Renoir… (I'd consider him a Toulouse-Lautrec.) And I'd take Howie's estimation of art as seriously as I'd take his editorial advice! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-16, 18:32:47
Well now hermit Oakdale may I say that art was amongst my top subjects at school. As my city has world renowned galleries, I can understand that not getting out to mix with the world at large can effect thinking so making generous allowances. The theme of this thread started as Presidential thing but it comes under art in a general and flexible way - humour.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-09-17, 21:41:03

[glow=black,2,300]HEY DONALD.....STRONG WINDS A COMIN' ON THE HORIZON! [/glow]



(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fm5I1NtZ.jpg&hash=2f1c82a7c2203f93883b2fc8fb54e685" rel="cached" data-hash="2f1c82a7c2203f93883b2fc8fb54e685" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://imgur.com/m5I1NtZ.jpg)



Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-09-19, 06:19:24
Well now hermit Oakdale may I say that art was amongst my top subjects at school.
Did you ever manage to color within the lines? :)
Seriously, I grew up in Boston (and Cambridge). Boston's Museum of Fine Arts is somewhat known… (And Harvard's Fogg Museum has had some remarkable pieces on display during the times I was a frequent visitor.) Boston's Symphony Orchestra, (the Pops, too; and a few schools of music — including Berklee!) And, of course, you know that stage plays and musicals that bomb in Boston usually don't get to Broadway…
But I wonder how you'd consider someone who's lived in California, Massachusetts, New York, Texas, Colorado; and visited most of the other U.S. states… How is such a person considered a hermit?
Where have you lived, your whole life? Well, RJ?

Subjects!? Nonsense, man! Show me your work… What have you created? (Beside discord, and rancor… :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-19, 13:04:14
Listen hermit. I don't have toexplain anything to a militiaman Yank and as it happens in my second year at Secondary School got a picture put in the Glasgow palace of Art in a school competition.

Anyway back to that other variation of woud-be art re America's comedy spot the Presidential thing.

The Republican Party is in a mess what with what is it now candidates in double figures? Haha.Trump no doubt appeals to a number of Republican people as they are dumb about politics and the truth is he will not get the party nomination. As for the Democrats the other half of conglomerate and corporate control they will win the election and no doubt that woman, Clintno. To the millions of poor will mean not a damn thing and even with the Obama care stuff there are still Americans in millions who have no insurance.

So for the countless numbers at the bottom it makes no damn difference to them.Sad really.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-09-19, 13:58:16
I like his stuff. But he's no Rembrandt or Renoir… (I'd consider him a Toulouse-Lautrec.)

I agree with that. Anyway I like his work and consider it a very good representation of a certain image of America. How much such image it's true or not that would be a much more interesting theme than the current thread's topic.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Midnight Raccoon on 2015-09-19, 16:34:20
Subjects!? Nonsense, man! Show me your work… What have you created? (Beside discord, and rancor…  :)  )

Now you've run him out of options :left: Unless you consider anti-americanism a different subject, of course
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-21, 03:44:42
I think that reason why Trump gets a depth of popularity is because like in many western countries people can get a wee bitty tired of the regular politics so if they are not too indepth willnot be sensible to think wisely for a proper politician. As I said the fact that the Republican lot have a what is it - a dozen or so wnating to be the candidate shows how much of a mess he party is in. He will not get the candidature and I am sure of that and even if the party was completely head shaking for him the American people would not have him anywhere near the White House . Any residence of sensibility in the Republican Party will save jhem the job of tolerating such a fool. The man makes a fool of himself and his country by his ignorance and stupidity. He is an embarrassment but most Americans will breath a sigh of relief when the Republican Party chase him.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-09-22, 04:33:17
I agree with RJ.....I think "The Donald" is a fawkin' asshole!

Even though, to his credit, back in the late 70's his lot contributed handsomely to the boys of the IRA, he's still a fawkin' asshole!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: string on 2015-09-23, 17:37:05

I agree with RJ.....I think "The Donald" is a fawkin' asshole!

Even though, to his credit, back in the late 70's his lot contributed handsomely to the boys of the IRA, he's still a fawkin' asshole!


So he is not just a "f a" but also has a huge dollop of bad judgement, supporting a bunch of murderous loosers".

I'm  glad to be reassured he will not be elected to damage the good name of the U.S. of A.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-09-23, 19:39:42
The problem is that while The Donald may not get elected, he can do an enormous amount of damage in the run-up to not getting elected.

Remember the damage that Ross Perot managed to do to the Democrat party? Some people think that Ross Perot may have drained enough votes from the Democrat candidate that it gave the election to the Republican by default.

The Donald has the capability of doing that kind of damage to the Republicans. He could guarantee a Hillary victory just by his being in the campaign in any capacity.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-09-23, 23:56:01
[Slight correction, mjm: Perot gave the election to William Jefferson Clinton — the Democrat.] The dynamic is not much different now. (Three-party races are what they are.) But the situation is: GHW Bush was Reagan's VP for eight years and president for four…the incumbent in the election you refer to. Perot was an outsider who knew enough to recognize that he'd never get the Republican nomination (and he wouldn't become a Democrat), so he ran as an independent. And cost the Republican incumbent the election.
(Wiki says "Exit polls also showed that Ross Perot drew 38% of his vote from Bush, and 38% of his vote from Clinton, while the rest of his voters would have stayed home had he not been on the ballot." That strikes me as naive statistics…)
Now we have -as we did in 2008- a race with no incumbent. This is an "up for grabs" election: The likely nominees may not prevail.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-09-24, 00:57:23
Oakdale--- you're right. My memory appears to be slipping.

Seems I remember Ralph Nader causing trouble for the Democrats. He didn't draw much more than single-digits if I remember, but in races where the difference between GWB and Al Gore (the first time around for GWB) and GWB against John Kerry were close--- the drain that Nader created just might have made the difference.

In any case---- these freak-show candidates may be good for laughs but they're terrible for getting good candidates into office.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-09-24, 01:21:02
[…] these freak-show candidates may be good for laughs but they're terrible for getting good candidates into office.
I've not entirely given up on getting good candidates into office… But we haven't had a Ronald Reagan in a very long time! :) (Barry Goldwater was an early favorite of mine…)
What — particularly — would keep you from voting for Donald Trump, should he get the nomination? (I'll keep my speculations to myself; and my own opinions. I just want to know what you think.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-24, 02:21:40
If Trump gave money to that crowd of prehistoric, ignorant scumbags of the cave dwelling and murderous IRA  scum murderers then shame on him and anyone who thinks that was constructive. How Americans can dish big money to such people (and he wasn't alone) is beyond intelligence and what is even worse than their killings is that they are very, very   left wing and thuggish Socialist mindsets. Political hypocrisy
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: string on 2015-09-24, 12:12:33
Since we don't have Presidents in the UK, there is not exactly an exact comparison, but the remarks on getting a good Republican Candidate strikes a chord with me even though were I an American I would probably lean towards the Democrats.

Those that are slightly interested might have noticed that the UK' has two major parties, Conservative and Labour - right of centre and left of centre respectively. Well Labour have recently elected a new Leader recently by the name of Corbyn who is very much on the left of left-of-centre. So much so in fact that it is quite possible that his Party stands no chance at all in future General Elections. As a floating voter whose vote has to be earned I like to have a real choice, not have only one party to vote for. So even though I voted for the Conservatives at the last election I don't want to be marooned there.

There is a parallel with the odd-ball candidate for Republican Candidate becoming the Republican Choice. The best situation, I feel, is if both eventual main candidates for President are up to the job.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-09-24, 23:59:31

[…] these freak-show candidates may be good for laughs but they're terrible for getting good candidates into office.
I've not entirely given up on getting good candidates into office… But we haven't had a Ronald Reagan in a very long time! :) (Barry Goldwater was an early favorite of mine…)
What — particularly — would keep you from voting for Donald Trump, should he get the nomination? (I'll keep my speculations to myself; and my own opinions. I just want to know what you think.)


What would keep me from voting for Trump? The guy is a freaking CLOWN, that's what. It would be hard to imagine a worse possible choice for president. If by chance he wins the Republican nomination--- that's it, they're through as a serious party.

He puts himself up as some sort of businessman-- but this is a man who managed to lose money OWNING a casino. Now that takes some doing. Look--- as a showman, he's hard to beat. As somebody you would actually want to sit in the Oval Office, as "commander in chief" and all the rest of it----- we just have to do better than Trump.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-26, 05:03:48
Well I have already pointed out that Trump will get nowhere. I pointed out that some would like him because they are tired of the general political scene but the vasyt majority of Americans will keep their distance even if the Republicans were daft enough to make him their candidate. That will not happen but that party has a big, big, problem and that they have a whole bunch of people wanting to be the candidate shows how much they are in disarray.

Trump is a complete idiot and that he thinks some of the cruel things he stupidly says about other people are funny then what a farce he is! The main negative about him is that he is embarrassing the country to the rest of the world.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-09-26, 05:12:49
The main negative about him is that he is embarrassing the country to the rest of the world.


So he's like America's rjhowie.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-09-26, 05:47:21
:)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-27, 01:35:39
Shows the unfortunate general world ignorance of the ex-colonies there ersi. Someone like him would get nowehere here but therein we have a wider democracy than you  and a more grown up voters You will not of course that I commented that in nutjob land Trump would be booted.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-09-27, 04:15:16
Shows the unfortunate general world ignorance of the ex-colonies there ersi.
Would you mind, RJ, referencing ersi's comment? :)
Or admit that, as usual, you don't even know who you're talking to! (But, since you seldom know what you're saying, it shouldn't matter, eh?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-09-27, 19:19:21
I'm gonna let him try to weasel out of that before I point out some interesting correlations.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-09-30, 19:57:26
It wouldn't be so bad Oakdale for a criticism if it was not from someone like yourself. You are a house hermit and stuck in books and that gives you the self-importance that would be lost amongst the outside and normal world. I mix with people, organisations, life in general and do try to make allowances for your lack of confidence on that outside world. I dare say it keeps you happy!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-10-03, 14:47:14
The real problem with this election cycle is that it's hard to make a parody of it. This election cycle IS a parody. See below:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK-I_LYbOcY[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-04, 02:25:34
Haha, well done. Some clever translation work all told!  :lol:

I feel that there are many people in America who would like a change from just the Democrats and Republican matter but getting tired of much of what is happening.  Salaries are not shooting up and the gap (which is basically acceptable as a principle) is now far wider than ever befor and in fact, rocketing. Seventeen million citizens cannot afford health insurance along with all the other strains. You cannot help but feel for them and understand why the last Hill elections total was not impressive. You do need aa wider system than you have mjsmsprt40 and the lack of it is turning many people of. There are so many decent and thinking people who are politically getting nothing valid.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-10-04, 02:46:07
[The criticism wouldn't be so bad were it] not from someone like yourself. You are a house hermit and stuck in books and that gives you the self-importance that would be lost amongst the outside and normal world. I mix with people, organisations, life in general and do try to make allowances for your lack of confidence on that outside world.
From where do you get these outrageously misinformed tidbits, from which you've built such a woefully misguided précis of my life? :)
RJ, take your meds! (They're "free" ain't they? :) )

Or —just once— get drunk and get laid! :) (If the lady says her name is L-O-L-A, Lola…pass out! See what happens. You might like it…)

I don't really know why you have such animosity for those who, unlike yourself, can actually read books — without losing a major part of their "free" time. (I'm not the speediest of readers, but I can keep my place in a book -for years, if needed- without missing important dates or abrogating commitments…)

You imply that your travels are more extensive than mine. Hm. Haven't the extremes been crossing the Atlantic? Which peoples did you meet while doing so? :)
I've traveled the U.S. pretty extensively… Lived in many places. Of course, you'd want to talk about foreigners, as a dodge. But, RJ, foreigners are everywhere in the U.S. Always have been! And I've not had any particular problems because of my supposed xenophobia, linguistic inadequacy or feelings of superiority (…that really is your bugaboo, in't? :) — I'll come back to this, another time). I've "traveled" at least as much as you! (And I'm younger! :) )

I'm going out on a limb here: God only knows what criticism you referred to… (I'm too drunk to search…) But, kiddo, boy-o, my Scots friend: You seem often to be calling a fellow a queer, because he told you your fly is undone as you exit the Loo. (In the old sense of the word:) You're a queer duck, Howie!
Isn't it more likely that he was just trying to save you some embarrassment?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-10-04, 08:09:55

I've not entirely given up on getting good candidates into office… But we haven't had a Ronald Reagan in a very long time! :)

Ronald Reagan, the dumbest President since Herbert Hoover? :D

Ronald Reagan's world map:
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fkelsocartography.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F09%2Fthe-world-according-to-ronald-reagan.jpg&hash=0c8a43451e6fad3e9e022ffcc3641262" rel="cached" data-hash="0c8a43451e6fad3e9e022ffcc3641262" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://kelsocartography.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/the-world-according-to-ronald-reagan.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-05, 00:56:53
Hey Oakland, maybe you should have waited until one of your occasional dry sessions?!  :lol:

As for travelling it is one thing going about one's own country (even though your s is large) but the average Joe over there cannot get much further as they really cannot afford it. Tell you what. When it comes to that carnival called a Presidential Election you argue with yourself to be sober on the voting day and ensure you can walk in a straigh line (will cheer you own dear man) and you will be so confident that you will be able to work out who to vote for! Maybe i could send you a crate of Irn Bru to celebrate before you slip back to normal??  :D

On a more general note away from my distant pal, it will not make a damn difference to the legions of the ordinary, poor or suffering who wins the election. Now that IS sad.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-08, 18:35:16
One good consolation is that Americans will not put Trump in the White Houe and I will be confident enough to congratulate that in advance. Good on you! :up:

Hope you don't mind OakdaleFTL?  ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2015-10-09, 06:39:03
it have been a while ...

so, who is Republican Candidate.

and who is Democrat candidate ?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-10-09, 07:46:43
They haven't been chosen yet, by their respective conventions… :) It's an odd system, I know. But there it is.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-10-09, 13:19:57
They haven't had the Iowa caucuses yet. Talk about something weird in American politics, I suspect the Iowa caucuses is about as weird as it gets. I won't pretend to explain it-- I have a suspicion folk from Iowa would be hard-put to explain it. But--- they're first. After that, New Hampshire has its primaries--- which at least are understandable in normal voting procedures. Then over a period of several weeks the rest of the states have their primaries. The conventions--- where the candidates for each party are actually chosen-- come in late July/early August of next year.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-10-09, 15:37:18
I don't envy your extremely long process. But on the plus side (maybe), several have dropped out, haven't they? ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-12, 03:51:34
A friend of mine who has lived with her husband (both Scots) in California for decades mentioned to me in an email that there is a Democrat would-be Presidential candidate who is a Socialist. I do recall a passing reference in a news item recently but she has said he is getting more money in that liar Clinton. Is that true?

Personally, I am not a Socialist however it seems that so many ordinary people over there are being left behind and the system is failing them for the money people and the crowds he gets says something very direct.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-10-13, 10:13:23
I suppose you mean Bernie Sanders? He's more of a fairly centrist-ish social-democrat from the European perspective. Our socialist parties wouldn't be very happy with his policies.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-10-13, 12:26:43
Not to worry, guys: Bernie Sanders has been in the Senate for decades, and he's as likely to be nominated as the Democrat candidate as Abe Lincoln! (Who, BTW. is still dead…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2015-10-13, 14:50:59
It's a part of a Scandinavian government takeover.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3j6vRkmys4[/video]

(Mondale for President!)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-14, 02:59:21
Yes, Sanders. Actually America could do with someone like him and the young in particular who are increasingly frustrated are loyal to him. Much of his campaign money comes from people and individual gifts but unfortunately the USA is still to stuck in the mess and corporate control. Clinton will get the nomination unfortunately instead and will make no damn  difference to the millions of poor, people unable to get health insurance, poverty, homelessness, military imperialism and so on. Sad but maybe one day.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Midnight Raccoon on 2015-10-14, 11:25:23
Bernie Sanders., Wall Street regulates Congress!
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9QXJBjYO0o[/video]

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-10-15, 06:18:38
Yes, Sanders. Actually America could do with someone like him and the young in particular who are increasingly frustrated are loyal to him. Much of his campaign money comes from people and individual gifts
… Much like in my day, when the write-in vote was pretty impressive for Mickey Mouse! :)
Sang, you can't run a country of 325 million people of diverse racial and ethnic backgrounds like the Scandinavian countries… (I know, I quoted RJ! But he's hopeless!) 20+ millions, and mostly racially "pure" — which is to say, culturally akin. They can make almost anything work… If they don't allow "foreign" influences to muck it up.
Our problems are different, both in scope and perspective… (I don't think you expected that last term: But you have some expertise in the "social" sciences: Think on it, and get back to me?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-10-15, 10:24:42
Sang, you can't run a country of 325 million people of diverse racial and ethnic backgrounds like the Scandinavian countries… (I know, I quoted RJ! But he's hopeless!) 20+ millions, and mostly racially "pure" — which is to say, culturally akin. They can make almost anything work… If they don't allow "foreign" influences to muck it up.

I don't buy that. While the American ideal may be e pluribus unum, that abstract concept describes neither reality nor a realistically attainable (or desirable) goal. Au fond the American stew is "Protestant" Anglo-Dutch, mostly inspired by Puritanism and European Enlightenment, with a few spices. The multicultural, multi-ethnic society is a liberal idée fixe to be taken with a huge grain of salt. An idée fixe which is oddly mirrored by conservatives in their fear of a decline in national unity and an unwarranted distrust in America's Americanizing capacity.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Midnight Raccoon on 2015-10-15, 17:06:59
While the American ideal may be e pluribus unum, that abstract concept describes neither reality nor a realistically attainable (or desirable) goal.

Nor is one remotely one that I claimed to support.  Nor does it have anything to do with the video I posted. I have no idea why Oakdale is confusing me with Jax and that shall remain a mystery.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-10-15, 22:09:02
I don't buy that. While the American ideal may be e pluribus unum, that abstract concept describes neither reality nor a realistically attainable (or desirable) goal. Au fond the American stew is "Protestant" Anglo-Dutch, mostly inspired by Puritanism and European Enlightenment, with a few spices. The multicultural, multi-ethnic society is a liberal idée fixe to be taken with a huge grain of salt. An idée fixe which is oddly mirrored by conservatives in their fear of a decline in national unity and an unwarranted distrust in America's Americanizing capacity.

:lol:
Another one turning Catholic... culturally Catholic, I mean.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-10-16, 08:47:31
Nor is one remotely one that I claimed to support.  Nor does it have anything to do with the video I posted. I have no idea why Oakdale is confusing me with Jax and that shall remain a mystery.

Hm, good point. Let's put our crystal balls away.  :sherlock:

Another one turning Catholic... culturally Catholic, I mean.

I'd say I'm more culturally Protestant, but I suppose the differences with Catholicism are greatly exaggerated. :P
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-10-16, 22:50:50
I'd say I'm more culturally Protestant, but I suppose the differences with Catholicism are greatly exaggerated.  :P

You don't know what you say, so I forgive you...  :rolleyes:

-----------------

The American voting something thread, now I'm going to vote as an invited intention voter... :)

Very much against my will, I can't vote for the conservative Republicans since they show to be a bunch of imbeciles.
That makes to remain Democrats and lunatics.

I'll vote for the lunatics.

That was the voting from the Lisbon juri. :)

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-17, 02:52:06
No harm to RC's Frenzie but the difference betwixt Protestantism and Romanism is exaggerated?1 Dear, oh dear, you reflect a social Prot thinking there chum. i don't disrespect Rome's right to exist as that would not be very thinking on freedom and rights but you re wrong in your passing comment.

Anyway what passes for a political system in the ex-colonies is in the usual simple terms - a joke. It does not matter a tinker's proverbial curse who wins the Presidential farce as all the spied on, poor, rights infringed, suffering in the US of A will still be stuck and so will the world with a global imperial war-mongering tyrant. If real democracy ever came to the USA it would cause social upheaval trying to adapt to it.

And hey, Belfrager, me beingaa train and tram fan if I ever went to Lisbon to get a ride on thiose trams going up those narrow steep streets I would treat you to a big mac!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-10-17, 03:39:03
It does not matter a tinker's proverbial curse who wins the Presidential farce as all the spied on, poor, rights infringed, suffering in the US of A will still be stuck and so will the world with a global imperial war-mongering tyrant.
(emphasis added)
Perhaps the more civilized, democratic, cultured and wiser peoples of the world should get off their duffs and do something… :)
Nah! Watch your telly. Senescence and senility go hand in hand. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-10-30, 13:07:34
That makes to remain Democrats and lunatics.

I'll vote for the lunatics.

Mr. Howie isn't an American. Back to the drawing board.

The global imperial war-mongering tyrant
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-10-30, 14:40:31

That was the voting from the Lisbon juri. :)

Lot of sabre-rattling lately. What next? War with Russia? War with China?

The grand jury from Hundsfotzhausen came to the conclusion that he (http://www.yesemails.com/goofypolitics/apeman/1.jpg) would be the best choice for president.
The guy has balls.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-10-30, 23:09:42
The grand jury from Hundsfotzhausen came to the conclusion that he (http://www.yesemails.com/goofypolitics/apeman/1.jpg) would be the best choice for president.
The guy has balls.

Indeed he has... what a marveilous president...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-11-01, 10:52:53
Be careful what you wish for.
Quote
A woman who suffered horrific injuries after being mauled by a crazed chimpanzee has spoken for the first time about her ordeal.
Charla Nash, who had most of her face torn off during the frenzied attack, has also allowed herself to be photographed for the first time since the attack eight months ago.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1226985/Woman-face-torn-crazed-chimp-speaks-time.html#ixzz3qEh0DQlg
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-02, 02:06:06
Yep back to the drawing board indeed!

Mind you I think what the US does need is a really fundamental look at it's board as it is unfortunately rather limiting. In fairness I don't think it was meant to go that way in the early days if you respect the integrity of some of the early political thinking but the disappointment is that it has well drifted away from hoped for progress. Leaving aside the easy digs at corporates and the tens of thousands of lobby folk on the Hill the average citizen is not getting better off in general and the gap between the top and routine is getting awfully big. Politically as far as actual parties go is far too reduced due to the big two. In other countries where say a Socialist participation is routine such people are almost treated as ghastly.

The country does need a far wider political party involvement and millions of Americans know this and  the last election on the hill with the percentage of voters kind of illustrated this need. In a wdier franchise more could be spent internally than externally and i am sure there are many who feel that too but sadly the corporate people are very deep into both Democrats and republicans. It must be deeply frustrating to many an intelligent citizen  that the system needs more than a tweek and the young these days are becoming more aware hence the interest in a Socialist wanting to be President.  That will not happen and although it is not my corner it would however if possible be a big boost to many in the States.

Nothing wrong to be basically proud of a nation without having to be nationalist although a person can be frustrated at how the system has been misused. A decent people deserve a better system all round and for now it does sadly make no difference how gets into the White House. The chances are it will be Clinton and thankfully I do not live over the water because she is not my cup of tea (soory coffe drinkers!). All round a decent people being hijacked.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-11-02, 02:35:45
..... chances are it will be Clinton and thankfully I do not live over the water because she is not my cup of tea (soory coffe drinkers!). All round a decent people being hijacked.



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbnKGopT0Uc[/VIDEO]



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYKAzJcU-DA[/VIDEO]


Now, I do expect the people blinded in the last 2 elections, to be further blinded by the desire to go down in history as being responsible for electing the [glow=green,2,300]"First Woman President in American History"[/glow], to ignore her baggage, & do their
unpatriotic best for Vince Foster's whore. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/411510.stm)





Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-11-03, 19:33:49
Now, I do expect the people blinded in the last 2 elections, to be further blinded by the desire to go down in history as being responsible for electing the "First Woman President in American History", to ignore her baggage, & do their
unpatriotic best for Vince Foster's whore. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/411510.stm)

I listened to all the woe speakers in the last two elections, and I'm no worse off than I was eight years ago..no better, either.

Now it's time to listen to all the wailing about Hillary. Frankly, I don't give a damn if she wins or not, but if she wins the walls won't come tumbling down. The same goes for the hundreds of would-be Republican hopefuls.

I know you're a Republican, Smileyfaze, so I'd like to know who you favor. That goes for our favorite supercilious poster (you know who you are). Don't be shy boys.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-11-03, 21:16:59
This tongue-in-cheek tidbit appeared in the Opinion page of a liberal newspaper under the line 'What would each candidate like out of the rest of the debates?'

TRUMP:
There must be a portion of each debate where Donald Trump can tell the other candidates “You’re fired” and send one or more of them home.
Donald Trump gets a special podium that is made of fake marble and says TRUMP on it in gold letters.
Only Donald Trump can talk.
Other candidates can talk if they want to say something about how Great and Huge Donald Trump is, but if their remarks start to seem mean-spirited or tongue-in-cheek their microphones must be shut off.

CARSON:
Dr. Carson must not be asked any questions, but he must be allowed to talk so that people can see how calm and reasonable he is in his demeanor. His microphone must be muted during those times and subtitles used to let the American people know what he is really saying, as distinct from the words that come out of his mouth, which can sometimes confuse people as to what he means.

FIORINA
No questions about HP.
At least one question asking “Of all the candidates, who here is a woman equipped to defeat the woman Hillary Clinton?”

RUBIO
“Current format of the debates is fine. CNBC did a good job.” Also, Jeb Bush should be allowed to ask Rubio whatever questions he likes.

HUCKABEE
The format of the debate should be a Fox News show hosted by Mike Huckabee.
In his debate requests, Huckabee thought about including a portion called Make Awful Remarks About The Holocaust until he realized that Ben Carson might win.

CRUZ
Ted Cruz should be allowed one filibuster per debate. There should also be a Dramatic Speech From “The Crucible” portion of the debate because Ted Cruz could really go to town on that.

RAND PAUL
Rand Paul would like a rogue drone to be released into the debate arena at the beginning and start carrying away all the candidates who have not previously filibustered about it. He also demands snacks on the grounds that if you aren’t ever going to point the camera at him or let him talk he doesn’t want to just have to stand there without snacks.

GRAHAM
Lindsay Graham would like the debate to include Lindsay Graham.

BUSH
Jeb would like to be allowed not to participate in the debate and to go sit in a bunker made of money until this primary is over. Can he do that, please?

JINDAL
Bobby Jindal would like to know what’s the matter with him.What’s the matter with him, America? Is he so bad? Here is some more creepy video he took of his family. Does that help? No? Then what WILL help?

CHRISTIE
Chris Christie would like the debate format to be one debate where Chris Christie debates Hillary Clinton, followed by another debate where everyone else debates everyone else. Failing that, he would like the format of the debate to be a Bruce Springsteen concert.

SANTORUM
Rick Santorum is just happy to be here and wishes the dress code could be lowered to include sweater vests.

PATAKI
George Pataki would like the debate to include a 10-minute video explaining who he is and letting America know that he has been running for president!

GILMORE
Jim Gilmore has been running for president THIS WHOLE TIME, you guys! He would like the debate to reflect that.

KASICH
John Kasich requests that there be two separate debates: one for people who will run this country into the ground and who make his head hurt just to look at, and one for people who won’t. He also requests that he be allowed to decide who is on each of those two lists. Drat, his head hurts already. Never mind, he would like to debate by himself.

MARTIN O’MALLEY
Can he come? He really enjoys being asked to participate in these things! They’re his joy! He has a guitar, you guys!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-03, 21:33:34
I do wish that the nation had a wider political width and that the large numbers of people who get a feeling they are not being noted could get a better system. The decency and hopes of so many get only partly answered due to the well funded control of the big two. It may have been partly okay at one time but these days a wider thing is perhaps needed. Many will of course love their country but still be a bit put out with what passes for a political situation in these times?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-03, 23:26:39
That was funny Jimbro3738 but funnier would be to make us, the non Americans, to chose a candidate based on that.
My choice would be "CHRISTIE".
Because "he would like the format of the debate to be a Bruce Springsteen concert."

Who the hell is that one? and all the others?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-11-06, 13:02:11
Who are they? Why, they're the Republican clown show, and, at the moment, Carson is chief clown. Democrats are praying that Carson becomes the candidate because he's batshit crazy.

"Dear God, please make Dr. Carson the Republican presidential candidate and I promise to store my grain in a pyramid!"
http://www.salon.com/2015/09/30/the_7_most_impressively_stupid_things_ben_carson_has_said_partner/ (http://www.salon.com/2015/09/30/the_7_most_impressively_stupid_things_ben_carson_has_said_partner/)
Let me add an eighth stupid statement.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/05/politics/ben-carson-pyramids-grain/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/05/politics/ben-carson-pyramids-grain/index.html)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-11-06, 14:15:23

Who are they? Why, they're the Republican clown show, and, at the moment, Carson is chief clown. Democrats are praying that Carson becomes the candidate because he's batshit crazy.

"Dear God, please make Dr. Carson the Republican presidential candidate and I promise to store my grain in a pyramid!"
http://www.salon.com/2015/09/30/the_7_most_impressively_stupid_things_ben_carson_has_said_partner/ (http://www.salon.com/2015/09/30/the_7_most_impressively_stupid_things_ben_carson_has_said_partner/)
Let me add an eighth stupid statement.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/05/politics/ben-carson-pyramids-grain/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/05/politics/ben-carson-pyramids-grain/index.html)


This sort of thing just makes me shake my head in sadness. Where do they get these goofy ideas?

I'm a Christian, and a Creationist to boot.  Having to listen to the strange ideas spouted by people who claim to believe as I do is--something else.

Here's a clue: According to Genesis, Joseph was given the task of storing the excess grain from the 7 good years so that there would be food through the 7 bad years. They had barns, and likely as not grain silos of some sort. Barns and silos are NOT new inventions by any means. Further, it's far easier and quicker to build storage barns than it is to build pyramids. You can put up a barn in a matter of days, and it doesn't even take that much labor. Pyramids took decades of slave labor to erect, and they only had 7 good years-- remember?

Pyramids were the burial chambers of the ruling class. They never would have been used for storing grain.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-07, 00:00:19
Who are they? Why, they're the Republican clown show, and, at the moment, Carson is chief clown.

You should be a Republican, you are a conservative at everything... True Democrats needs to be pro homosexual and a lot of other pro-something that you aren't.
Including pro-European :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-07, 02:48:12
Jimbro a conservative? - will be interesting to see the response!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-07, 07:44:08
Indeed! I look forward to it… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-11-07, 11:11:32

Who are they? Why, they're the Republican clown show, and, at the moment, Carson is chief clown.

You should be a Republican, you are a conservative at everything... True Democrats needs to be pro homosexual and a lot of other pro-something that you aren't.
Including pro-European :)

Puzzlement. And you know these things, how!?! Febrile imagination, I suppose.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-07, 14:31:17
And you know these things, how!?!

I'm the voice inside your mind... :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-11-07, 23:19:59
Now it's time to listen to all the wailing about Hillary. Frankly, I don't give a damn if she wins or not, but if she wins the walls won't come tumbling down. The same goes for the hundreds of would-be Republican hopefuls.


Some people forget to pick up a program on their way in. If I got to pick today how the second act would go it's a coin toss between Hilary and Trump. Those are shit shows I'd watch. But really when those two wear thin the Republicans are just hoping you looked across the stage and liked one of the other actors.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2015-11-08, 14:11:31

And you know these things, how!?!

I'm the voice inside your mind... :)


In case that's true, than Jim will have to visit an exorcist. :devil:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-08, 17:54:57
In case that's true, than Jim will have to visit an exorcist.  :devil:

That would be... interesting.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-11-08, 18:39:41

And you know these things, how!?!

I'm the voice inside your mind... :)

We are not surprised. (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileyfaze.tk%2Fslides%2Fbeam.gif&hash=85e4dcb62b5d9978963b9bfd9d9a0275" rel="cached" data-hash="85e4dcb62b5d9978963b9bfd9d9a0275" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://smileyfaze.tk/slides/beam.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-08, 19:56:03
Quite frankly I think it is a rather sad matter that America does not have  general public health system like here. You could dash well afford it if you didn't spend ridiculous sums on military intrigues and waste so much.  When one considers the tens of millions who cannot even afford the so-called Obama Care it is something deeply flawed in your system. Some 40 million of your fellow citizens pluas the7 figures losing homes?  We do not have a single party that is against our public health tradition from one wing to another and we are a progressive  country like others. Instead all this military and spy exorbitant costs that are ridiculous you should be looking after everyone who is not cumfy like the would-be thinkers that sometimes waffle here. Even the lesser of two evils the democrats do not look after those legions on the land of "democracy, etc, etc" that are not doing well. Contradictory and sad in view of the claims of the starters of the country.

These "Conventions" that pass for what would be a party conference in other progressive places are a carnival joke and do little or nothing for the vast numbers of poor. Instead all the propaganda of so-called principles, political shouting like "yes we can" mean nothing when the shows cease.  it is very disappointing that a country with an essentially decent people has been subtly brained by propaganda experts and the millions of the population who deserve better are not getting it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-11-11, 21:27:37
For those of you who are interested in whom Hillary will beat.
===============
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fblogs%2Fthe-fix%2Ffiles%2F2015%2F11%2F2300-11.jpg&hash=2e54b484dd0a2e1a514f99c3e46f9a13" rel="cached" data-hash="2e54b484dd0a2e1a514f99c3e46f9a13" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2015/11/2300-11.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-12, 05:59:55
Hillary will -if she wins her party's nomination- beat herself… But why, I ask you, Jaybro. do you care…?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-11-12, 10:39:42
Why do you care why I care?

Do you really think that Hillary will self-flagellate?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fbloviatingzeppelin.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2FJindals-Stupid-Party.jpg&hash=b04fccfd5492cbee7b67d078d844cb61" rel="cached" data-hash="b04fccfd5492cbee7b67d078d844cb61" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://bloviatingzeppelin.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Jindals-Stupid-Party.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-13, 04:30:22
In a way i am sorry that you folk are going to be stuck with Clinton or Trump as there is a deep problem in th system. Two nights ago i just came in from a wlk and caught the end of a political programme on the forthcoming carnival, oops, Presidential thing and it showed America as somewhere around 110th (think it was) in the world for a poor voting response based on the mid-term elections. There is amongst people a general increasing feeling of does it make a difference who wins. The voting percentage on the Hill election was a goodly barometer.  My feeling is that the millions sometimes referred to as the suffering will not change much employment and wages stuttering and so on. The system is two condensed and controlled and i bet if Clinton wins or that Republican head-shaker those millions will still be there waiting.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-11-13, 15:30:51
We might not be stuck with Trump. It seems he's about to self-destruct. This about a recent presentation:

Quote
As Donald Trump took the stage in a community college theater on Thursday night, something was off.
The usually punctual executive was nearly 40 minutes late. His voice was hoarse, his hair mussed, his tone defensive. He promised to take questions from the audience but instead launched into a 95-minute-long rant that at times sounded like the monologue of a man grappling with why he is running for president — and if it's really worth it or not. Even for a candidate full of surprises, the speech was surprising.

He scoffed at those who have accused him of not understanding foreign policy, saying he knows more about Islamic State terrorists "than the generals do." He took credit for predicting the threat of Osama bin Laden and being right on the "anchor baby situation," a position he says "these great geniuses from Harvard Law School" now back. He uttered the word "crap" at least three times, and promised to "bomb the s---" out of oil fields benefiting terrorists. He signed a book for a guy in the audience and then tossed it back at him with a flip: "Here you go, baby. I love you."

"How stupid are the people of Iowa?" asked Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump when speaking of rival Ben Carson's popularity in the GOP race.
Trump called Republican rival Carly Fiorina "Carly whatever-the-hell-her-name-is," accused Democratic front-runner Hillary Rodham Clinton of playing the "woman's card" and said Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) is "weak like a baby."

=========
https://www.washingtonpost.com/rweb/politics/trump-how-stupid-are-the-people-of-iowa/2015/11/13/f208b71ae9835f3c933d7111a281db03_story.html
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/rweb/politics/trump-how-stupid-are-the-people-of-iowa/2015/11/13/f208b71ae9835f3c933d7111a281db03_story.html)

Elsewhere...
Quote
...Republicans, some in the party establishment are so desperate to change the dynamic that they are talking anew about drafting Romney — despite his insistence that he will not run again. Friends have mapped out a strategy for a late entry to pick up delegates and vie for the nomination in a convention fight, according to the Republicans who were briefed on the talks, though Romney has shown no indication of reviving his interest.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-14, 01:57:22
Any time Trump is on television and speaking it is usually more getting snipes at people than policy. I am sue that the nation will not respond to the man as he might be wealthy but is an obvious head banger. How he does so well in Republican polls is beyond understanding.

I wonder what a President Jimbro would be like?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Midnight Raccoon on 2015-11-14, 02:23:10
I wonder what a President Jimbro would be like?

Better than a President Trump would do. But with his meltdown, unless I'm overestimating GOP primary voters, he just cost himself the nomination. If he managed to get nominated he already cost himself the votes of Latinos and women and therefore the election.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-15, 03:56:58
Well that is a consolation for sensible and progressive people over there. The man acts like a clown and does try and avoid pressing issues. He (Trump) is a comedian but not in the accepted way as he insults that tradition.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Midnight Raccoon on 2015-11-16, 02:22:34
And before this, he was becoming better known as a reality show star than as a businessman. If you want to find the worst buffoons on the planet, put on one of those. I recommend having a bottle of your preferred headache medicine ready before you, though :left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-12-10, 00:54:25
Ah, well, truth be told, there is no hope left. We are betrayed by both parties. I have lost all hope of any candidate inspiring a national revival, and I don't mean in the religious sense either.

Fact of the matter is, we'll be bankrupt within 10 years. The ship is already sinking. These military adventures will be forced to cease when they no longer have the money to back them.

My generation is screwed.

Que sera, sera.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hID5Hu-SHxg[/video]

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-12-10, 01:00:10
Hilary looks to be heir apparent to the Democratic nomination.

Trump says the most outrageous things, still front runner in the Republican race.

We're in an awful lot of trouble.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2015-12-10, 12:08:30
Odds are you might look back on the eight years of Obama with nostalgia.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-12-11, 01:51:24

Odds are you might look back on the eight years of Obama with nostalgia.


Obama has been a terrible president. He won twice because the Republicans managed to nominate two of the worst candidates possible.

We're in a long slide from the look of things.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-12-11, 03:59:02
Odds are you might look back on the eight years of Obama with nostalgia.
I see you've caught the oriental gambling bug… Always looking for a big -if unlikely- score! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-12-11, 22:38:03
Well done to you Colonel at last catching up with my summation of the political system carved up by the 2 monsters.The republican lot are in mess and have lost a great degree of any indepth status and the Democrats are just the leer evil. Indeed, i feel very sad for so many espeically the younger generation the way that the system has been carved up. And for Clinton, oh she will get in and it will make no damn difference to those who are suffering in the country or ant great leadership. Kind of really sad for a big country and so many decent people being treated like being easily manipulated by big money people. Although I am not of that corner locally, must say that Sanders did get an interesting response and especially younger people too.

Internally the nation is  actually in a bit of a state and internationally much the same. Just a pity there is not a wider way of doing things over there.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-12-16, 21:27:08
Obama has been a terrible president. He won twice because the Republicans managed to nominate two of the worst candidates possible.

True enough. Perhaps it's because Republicans only have "worst" candidates.

Trumped again!
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJOmYx1OVxU8iN0E9a-ShPEeMbMOahSRposluZHOETlU48q0wP)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ftherobblackshow.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F04%2FFatChristie.jpg&hash=34b8bfb8682a8924b0a200d7a3ff9dc4" rel="cached" data-hash="34b8bfb8682a8924b0a200d7a3ff9dc4" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://therobblackshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/FatChristie.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-12-18, 20:50:15
I am glad I live where I do because Donald Trump would get nowhere here but I will say this about him.

He is soeone to shake a head on yet at the same time he is not a complete fool as you don't succeed without some grey cells. What disturbs many over there is the actual political system and what goes on in their name. Trump is not a politician in the traditional sense and the actual fact that he is actually getting such a response is he plays as many ordinary people do do whether more serious minded people will frown at such. Obama was a long sigh of a a President and while Trump bounces into so many minds the alternative is not much better. Clinton is deep in the corporate pocket and millions of dollars. She can be sneaky has lied and all this guff about how capable and strong she is. Democrats are just the lesser of the traditional. two evils I say and to be brutally frank someone as progressively different as sanders would be an enlightening change and a more practical hep to tens of millions of ordinary Americans.

Sanders will unfortunately get nowhere the way the system is run and Clinton will get in and the fact she is a woman for the first time means damn all to the tens of millions who will remain on food stamps, losing homes, unable to pay for medical situations and so on. My heart goes out to all of those I mention and Clinton will continue to see the gap between the top and bottom continue as well. Those legions of ostracised will continue under her. That there are so many struggling it is all the more Sad that Sanders a welcome light will be shunted away.

What is really needed is a revolution of a different type but don't expecct it any time soon.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-01-09, 22:06:43
What turns very clear is that Trump thing is the best Republicans have...  :zzz:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-01-10, 08:34:33
Nah, Bel, Trump is the best circus the main-stream media can find… (But Bernie Sanders might take center-stage for a while: Like Howie says, he could help tens of millions — while hurting hundreds of millions! That's usually the way socialism works… :) ) What this country really needs is a strong progressive Democrat like Hillary! That way, we can stand idly by while Europe wastes away, and follow apace.
Unless the Caliphate actually wins its "wars"… Then things will go downhill more quickly.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-10, 15:18:10
I am not of Sanders tradition but I still think they could do with someone like him over there as the money barons run the place not the people. Clinton will win and the tens of millions of poor the legions homeless with not see a damn difference. With all the money behind here the system will go as usual especially for the monied. The others? Nothing and a damnable shame.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-01-10, 19:24:15

he could help tens of millions — while hurting hundreds of millions! That's usually the way socialism works… :)

Are you referring to Scandinavia, a fine example for  the way socialism works?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-01-11, 03:24:38
Ask me again in a couple of generations, after the "common" culture is not common anymore… And the real "population bomb" goes off. :(

(That's -of course- assuming Iran doesn't nuke you before then. :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-01-11, 10:16:53

Ask me again in a couple of generations, ...

OK.
In the meanwhile feel free to fill the forum with your pipe dreams. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-11, 12:05:09
O am not a Socialist but of the view that America could do with someone like Sanders because the country is only being run for particular controlling sections. The labels being stuck on that man are nonsense as f he was trying to have a Socialist revolution. For the run-of-the-mill working population the gap between the top and the bottom has rapidly went out of control. Obviously the top and bottom cannot ben the same but the top is now in super drive while everyone else is finding not much of a salary advancement. That allied to 40 million steadily poor on food stamps the army of folk losing homes and trillions spent on military nonsense the existing system in the USA is NOT working and will not as long as what is going on is tolerated.

For all the much vaunted democracy the clever propaganda of the danger of Sanders people is built into the system and stupid to put it bluntly. The country could broaden the economic base instead of wasting money trying to be global controllers and making the internal hypocrisy so damnable for large numbers of decent people. Other progressive countries can manage a more decent balance than America but the electoral barons on the Hill being the ultra rich are not much help in sorting the country. They value their comfort and richness too much. No-one ever thought they would see the collapse of the USSR with it's satellites and for a long time even the forerunner the Imperial mandate. With the level of debt and misuse of money as well as power the "revolution" in the States maybe a more direct and painful thing and that is one day there will be a financial collapse.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-01-11, 17:13:32
I contributed $50 to his campaign even though I know that he has no chance.

Is there anybody running that you think would make a good president?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-01-11, 17:18:01

I contributed $50 to his campaign even though I know that he has no chance.

Is there anybody running that you think would make a good president?

Eager to contribute more money somewhere? That's too easy. A better way to contribute is to become a good president yourself :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-01-11, 17:53:39
I would be as corrupt as possible just to prove RJ's biases.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.sodahead.com%2Fpolls%2F003728547%2F99f5a4f005f8c09fde64a40f272f5953_xlarge.jpeg&hash=1b63ed949f75b75727b8b1478060383c" rel="cached" data-hash="1b63ed949f75b75727b8b1478060383c" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003728547/99f5a4f005f8c09fde64a40f272f5953_xlarge.jpeg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-01-11, 19:31:37

I contributed $50 to his campaign even though I know that he has no chance.

I can't tell much about your favorite candidate.
However it looks like those 50 bucks have just been thrown out through the window. Who knows, maybe a homless could have used them in a more meaningful way - at worst for a few bottles of alcohol/anesthesia ...
Whatever, all I want to say - don't put your expectations too high, whoever will win.
Vote all you want. The secret government won’t change. (https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/10/18/vote-all-you-want-the-secret-government-won-change/jVSkXrENQlu8vNcBfMn9sL/story.html)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-01-11, 20:14:59
I knew Sanders didn't have a chance, but...Well, but...
======
First, I've made charitable contributions before and will do so again.

I don't disagree with anything you've said and add that much is the same everywhere in politics. Tell me if that isn't the case where you live. Here Congress and the courts limit the power of the president, something I don't see as a bad thing. Finally, had the Republicans been in power for eight years, things that matter to me would have been worse. I don't regret having voted for Obama twice. I'll vote for Hillary even though I'm not thrilled with her.
Even Putin and Kim Jong-un don't have complete control. Merkel either. (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F02215%2Fgermany_2215303b.jpg&hash=14f71de21bd852e94c8ec200810163a0" rel="cached" data-hash="14f71de21bd852e94c8ec200810163a0" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02215/germany_2215303b.jpg)
--------------------------
Wir schweigen nicht!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-01-11, 23:37:55
Merkel is an horrible woman. And a spy from the Comunist Germans.
With such ugly spies how could they win? but they did, or better saying, she did. Better than Hara Kiri.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-01-12, 01:12:18

I don't disagree with anything you've said and add that much is the same everywhere in politics. Tell me if that isn't the case where you live.

In some aspects it's worse...
You have to deal only with your own masters... We have also a mighty friend to deal with...
As for countries like Portugal - hmm what's in English the comparison for "worse"? ;)


Even Putin and Kim Jong-un don't have complete control. Merkel either.
--------------------------
Wir schweigen nicht!

Merkel? Complete control?
She only plays the part written for her - for better or worse.
Wir schweigen nicht? LOL :D
Her strength always laid in keeping silent. Our American friends gave her the "Teflon Lady" nickname.
BTW, our former Chancellor Schröder had his own strength. He was able to speak for hours without telling anything.
Our transatlantic friends gave him a nickname too - "The Eel".

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-01-12, 06:47:31
Is there a way to structure society that doesn't piss off almost everyone…? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-12, 18:30:29
It is a pity that Sanders has no chance because neither Clinton nor a Republican will make any damn difference to the way the country is being run, influenced or misusing money on.  The mass numbers of people who suffer in the nation will not see any great difference of that woman I cannot stand gets in (she will). Big bucks spent will make no damn difference to the millions who are suffering in the country and their loyalty misused. Sad.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-01-13, 10:59:49
It would make a difference between Clinton and Trump, with the later being a fucking lunatic. Howie gets offended by Las Vegas dialectic, but unfortunately the only honest and not cow-towing to political correctness way to describe him is with the modifier. Perhaps one has to be in America to understand the full extent that the man is far more qualified to be a candidate for asylum admission than the presidency. He's also racist as hell retweeting obviously incorrect nonsense about blacks committing 83 percent of murders (in fact it's 17 percent) in addition to factually challenged statements about Hispanics. Trump as president would tear this country apart along racial and ethnic lines. Did anyone else see the support that he's been, perhaps  unintentionally, gathering among neo-nazi and Klan groups.

If he does win the GOP nomination, Trump needs to be crushed completely not only for the stake of maintaining the Democratic presidency; but also for attempting to salvage what's left of the Republican party's soul.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-01-14, 14:34:51
I just read the following from the January edition of New Scientist magazine:
Quote
What makes us human?
IT WAS at least 7 million years ago that our ancestors diverged from those of our closest living relatives, the chimpanzees.

Trump failed to diverge.
==========
It's starting to look as though the Republicans are running a clown contest.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OdIm9bhAEEM/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-01-14, 14:45:05
Quote
Is it appropriate for one of the most respected newspaper columnists in America to describe a major presidential contender as “satanic” in his tone? For better or worse, that is the phrase David Brooks of the New York Times used to describe Republican Sen. Ted Cruz (Tex.) — and the brash declaration from the typically unflappable author, an apostle of civility in politics, has kicked up an unholy ruckus Beezlebub might appreciate. So has his latest column on Cruz, “The Brutalism of Ted Cruz.”

Brooks works largely for the Washington Post.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-01-14, 17:48:18
i think its normal each party demonize their opposite party .

its politics , where art of the possible is  the nature .
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-14, 18:28:21
I watched extracts from that Presidential speech stuff but not all of it becausde it is as boring as h. On top of that Obama is as big a liar as those before him and it is a pity that America will get stuck with that harridan, Clinton. And all that sily stuff about standing up every few minutes on comments being made instead of just staying seated and clapping. Is infantile. On a more pressing note, Obama waxing on about how well tyhey were doing. Eh? Trillions in debt and all the othe problems how can anyone intelligent accept that guff. As an outsider (and how thankful I am for that) it is unfortunate that the most constructive man, Sanders will not get anywhere due to big money, brain-washing media and so on. Obama was no better than GW Bush. I do feel sorry for decent ex-colonist because they deserve better for their country and loyalty. Obama in a nutshell was useless. The next President will be the same.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-01-14, 20:30:42
As an outsider (and how thankful I am for that)

As are we.
========
Why you would give that stuff a minute of your valuable time leaves me (almost) speechless. I've never watched one of those things because there's nothing to learn. And standing and clapping! Hard to believe.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeUhlLiwM00[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-01-14, 23:28:57
One thing the American political system is good at, to show to the world how the presidential system is a farse.

Despite being a Monarchist, I have no doubts that a semi presidential system is much much better than a presidential one.
Presidential systems are proper of non evoluted democratic systems. Typical of Republic of Bananas.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-01-15, 02:53:35
i think its normal each party demonize their opposite party .

While that's true, it's hard to imagine the Democrats saying much else than he's already shown about himself.
Obama in a nutshell was useless.

He got elected twice because the Republicans would have done worse. And like a possible future Trump running against Clinton, Romney did himself in. For one, claiming the nearly half the country don't take responsibility for themselves because they get back their Federal taxes alone probably tipped Upper South swing states into Obama's camp. Of course, their was his aide claiming they could "Etch-A-Sketch" primary Romney to win the national election. GOPers choose such bad candidates that a Democratic victory was inevitable.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-01-15, 20:48:59
GOPers choose such bad candidates that a Democratic victory was inevitable.

They're on their way to doing it again. Go Trump!

That said, he'd make a nice Vice-President for Hillary.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn29.elitedaily.com%2Fcontent%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F07%2F28115309%2Ftrump-vice-president-apprentice-elite-daily.jpg&hash=949f11ac0921df749d23e66106b03007" rel="cached" data-hash="949f11ac0921df749d23e66106b03007" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn29.elitedaily.com/content/uploads/2015/07/28115309/trump-vice-president-apprentice-elite-daily.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-16, 16:41:17
The Republicans would have been worse than Obama? Considering all the widening spying on people on the country the increased use of killing drones and much more there was not a lot of real difference between him and GW Bush. In fact in much even worse. The Cuban concentration campp was typical. Time after time in a whole series of public speeches the place was never closed and the country continued to hold prisoners for 14 years untried or able to actually do a trial due to lack of evidence. An utterly disgusting place for a so-called democracy and lecturer to everyone else on principles. Even those found to be innocent were still kept there so don't let us have some high principled guff re Obama. The militarism across the world is still there and hardly slowing never mind the cost and trillions in debt so it does not matter a damn which of the 2 controlling parties are in power.

Still think all that repeated standing up and clapping eevry minute and often less than a minute is daft.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-18, 14:42:58
I know that Sanders will be pushed into a corner by the big money that passes for a political system but the thing I have noted is the support he especially gets from so many younger people. They have at last had it sunk into them that their country loyalty the way things are run and the number of people suffering illustrates he has progressive points. Sanders is far from being a die in the wwoll Marxist but the usual trait in America on even whispering anything to so with Socialism is a brain invading propaganda. In addition, I would also say that he gets less of the media attention but that is to be expected as the money barons who really run the country are involved in that. Whoever the Republicans manage to crawl behind is a negative and frankly so too is that mouth, Clinton. Neither party will help the vast majority of the population or the money men who will help that woman win.

There are even digs at the age of Sanders yet his young support is not distracted from that nonsense.  He is talking common sense as well as being thoughtful of the tens of millions who are not in the nonsense "dream" corner and no chance of such. There would be less money dished out on imperialism, militarism and more effort made internally for people. The machine is virtually only allowing Clinton to be in the White House yet even some ordinary and not very monied Republicans can see something in Sanders. That he is chasing that waste of space Clinton in polls tells you that there is a very obvious dis-satisfaction with the political system. He is not on about storming the palace but that more Americans get a fairer deal than they are getting. America is no better under Obama and will be the same under mouth Clinton.

Political machinery is in need of an overhaul and he knows it as many do but the money barons will use the media and anything they can to keep control. The man is loyal to his country not the bank accounts.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: string on 2016-01-18, 21:20:08
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZBG0LFWkAASh25.jpg)

The next President?.

God save America..
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-18, 22:45:57
The way the media operates is not just a problem in America but here also. oTnight I watched the BBC News doing something very subtle and wrong. While reporting on Trump and that pointless petition here agaiot Trump being allowed in Britain the news man reminded of what the man had said. They showed a small extract from his speech about Muslims getting into America BUT they skipped the end where Trump said the refusal was to be until things were sorted out. To some that might not mean much but to others who do not know his full statement that is wrong as it is not a balanced report whether we agree with the comments or not.

It is much the same as the anti-Russian guff we get on news items and by politicians. It is subtle stuff but sometimes even fails that. We no longer just get news reporting but very concisely planned views which should not be  the case. That stupid petition here will go nowhere because the government will ignore it and rightly so. In addition I am not suddenly jumping on that man's bandwagon but the way things are not always reported properly and instead Goebells mindset stuff.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-01-19, 03:32:27
Peter Wehner, who work with the Reagan, HW Bush administrations and was an adviser and speechwriter to the GW Bush administration wrote in the NY Times Why I will never for Donald Trump (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/opinion/campaign-stops/why-i-will-never-vote-for-donald-trump.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fpeter-wehner&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection)

He begins by noting Trump's lack of experience in public office or any military experience and Trump's ignorance of basic facts of National Interest. So you can bring in people to teach you those things, right? Not if you're Trump....

Quote
Mr. Trump has no desire to acquaint himself with most issues, let alone master them. He has admitted that he doesn’t prepare for debates or study briefing books; he believes such things get in the way of a good performance. No major presidential candidate has ever been quite as disdainful of knowledge, as indifferent to facts, as untroubled by his benightedness.


Wehner notes notes disturbing things about Trump's personality.

Quote
Even more disqualifying is Mr. Trump’s temperament. He is erratic, inconsistent and unprincipled. He possesses a streak of crudity and cruelty that manifested itself in how he physically mocked a Times journalist with a disability, ridiculed Senator John McCain for being a P.O.W., made a reference to “blood” intended to degrade a female journalist and compared one of his opponents to a child molester.


That "blood" comment was when Trump said Fox News host Megyn Kelly "..She gets out. Starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions you. You can see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever, but she was, in my opinion, she was -- off base" When she asked him in about women's issues. What is wrong with him?

Quote
Mr. Trump’s virulent combination of ignorance, emotional instability, demagogy, solipsism and vindictiveness would do more than result in a failed presidency; it could very well lead to national catastrophe. The prospect of Donald Trump as commander in chief should send a chill down the spine of every American.
I think it has the potential to have global catastrophe. Right now, Trump and Putin are pals. What will happen when inevitably Donald and Vladimir have a disagreement. It's not that I think even Trump would be ignorant and emotionally unstable enough to directly attack Russia, but what if Putin finds himself in a position that he must defend an ally?

Wehner goes on to note that a Trump victory would result in the GOP being an angry, bigoted populist party and no longer a conservative one.

But it gets worse.

Quote
I will go further: Mr. Trump is precisely the kind of man our system of government was designed to avoid, the type of leader our founders feared — a demagogic figure who does not view himself as part of our constitutional system but rather as an alternative to it.


But Wehner's salient concerns would fall on deaf ears among Trump supporters. Sure, they're frustrated with "the establishment" , but that doesn't mean to put the worst lunatic in charge of the asylum.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-01-19, 05:21:01
Politics bore. Such attention to nothing. One man shows what a mockery the crap you all dawdle over is and everyone is afraid he'll get elected.

A billionaire appealing to middle America and a marketer getting unlimited coverage... May be genius actually. (lol)

He's still just a real estate mogul playing the numbers. Says all the dumb things avg. Joe White Sr. wants to but knows ain't reality. :spooky:

Quote
I will go further: Mr. Trump is precisely the kind of man our system of government was designed to avoid, the type of leader our founders feared — a demagogic figure who does not view himself as part of our constitutional system but rather as an alternative to it.


What? Where? When?

No it wasn't. The system was designed to stop the stooopid things he says from happening in the event he is elected. Voters are idiots... that actually is built into the system.


My fav :heart:
Wehner goes on to note that a Trump victory would result in the GOP being an angry, bigoted populist party and no longer a conservative one.

"Populist party" got tossed in there with some other negative descriptive words. I don't see how that relates...
Anyway that quote should be fresh when I say, he'll be the most inept President since 'we' voted a black man into office.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-01-19, 08:25:30
everyone is afraid he'll get elected.

Nah, I have little doubt that either Clinton or Sanders can defeat him in the general election. The electoral college is stacked against him, with only Texas and George going for him. Florida has too many Hispanics not go Blue this time with him as the GOP contender, given his fence comments and threats of deportation (yes, that upset even the legal immigrants. Those are ones that I personally know..) Besides the deep South that leaves with Tennessee, Arkansas, Kentucky and the thinly populated mid-western states. This adds up to an electoral college landslide against him. Him getting the nomination is the Democrat's dream come true.  Then again, the GOP has developed this habit nominating people that appeal to their base, but are repugnant to everyone else as it is.
The system was designed to stop the stooopid things he says from happening in the event he is elected.

Perhaps, but you're counting on the system. The President wants an idiotic thing done and congress shoots it down and/or the SCOTUS finds it unconstitutional (but take a lesson from the Obamacare, there isn't a whole lot the Federal Government can't do with some justification in the Constitution.) Trump is a narcissistic megalomaniac. That being the case, GOPers complain Obama's executive orders - wait until they see a hypothetical President Trump's.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-01-19, 09:49:23
It'll be interesting to see if Trump's approach changes after getting the nomination. If not he is truly the idiot we all think he is.

Hopeless optimism pulled out of my arse:

It could be good for congress if he is elected. They would have to actually do something and with some togetherness. There's plenty they can do to render executive orders inept.

If he doesn't get the nomination but fractures the GOP this could make Smileyfaze happy. People could say Tea Party without laughing... Nah I'm going too far. Still hilarious none of the "elite" members ever cracked a history book to see how that might go. But jokes aside any relevant step away from a two party system can be good. ([Crescendo] Voting reform, sensible districts, campaign fund caps... NO MORE LOBBYIST! (sry, I almost got excited. I was just having the strangest dream about functional government I think. Hillary wasn't in it tho.))

there isn't a whole lot the Federal Government can't do with some justification in the Constitution.

[optimism dies]
Checks and balances.

Patriot Act and Presidential bj's. Seriously it's just a piece of paper with words on it. As long as you're distracted by the "issues" presented to you - those words are meaningless.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-01-19, 11:33:07
I was just having the strangest dream about functional government I think.

Yeah, you must have been dreaming because we both know that's gonna happen.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-20, 02:51:45
Kind of odd criticism that Trump had no military experiences after alone he is not alone re White House residents. And in any case it is big money that runs the country not the would-be political macinery and just look what the lesser of two evils, Clinton has to spend. Head shaking stuff and Sanders is far more honest and sensible than either her or the Republican possibility.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-01-20, 04:49:00
Kind of odd criticism that Trump had no military experiences after alone he is not alone re White House residents


It's just another item missing from his cv to be president, so don't make more out of that criticism than it is. Running a business is not the same as being POTUS. In fact, he might not have been as successful of a businessman than people think with his businesses going bankrupt and him having declared personal bankruptcy four times. The National Journal has a piece about The 1 Easy Way Donald Trump Could Have Been Even Richer: Doing Nothing (http://www.nationaljournal.com/twentysixteen/2015/09/02/1-easy-way-donald-trump-could-have-been-even-richer-doing-nothing).

Republicans like to deride Obama as a "community organizer", but as a senator he was actually more qualified than Trump and didn't have a string of financial failures behind him like Trump. This leads to a largely unaddressed issue about Trump. What would a Trump budget deficit look like? He says so many offensive things that few seem to consider that. I took a look at his tax plan (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform), which he claims is revenue neutral.

How many times does cutting taxes to increase revenue need to fail before the GOPers learn? A quick overview explains way. A) The spending cuts to pay for the tax cuts never materialize. B) Within the Laffer Curve, which demonstrates that high taxes can actually decrease revenue, there is s point in which a lower tax rate neither stimulates the economy nor increases revenue. America's tax rate is below the sweet spot that the economy gets a stimulus and revenue is increased. Witness the Great Recession; both Presidents Bush and Obama offered tax cuts and tax credits that failed to improve the America's economic performance.  That's not a political statement, but an easily verifiable statement of fact. C)Trump's plan shows a decrease in deductions for middle-class and above tax rates. Raise your hand if you think that will fly politically so that you may be given a dunce cap and assigned the dunce corner. Apologies for going  pedantic on economic, but frankly American voters tend to economically illiterate. Then there's the insanity of impose tariffs of upto 35% on certain imported goods, such as car assembled in Mexico. While I agree that more manufacturing jobs need to be brought back to the US a plan would only suppress the demand side of supply and demand and damage the economy further. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-01-20, 10:41:12
Sanders is far more honest and sensible than either

That's what you're supposed to think.

Imagine a drama on your telly. Now imagine you just realized what it is.

yw.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-01-20, 20:25:41
The telly or the drama, ty?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-01-20, 20:48:58
My post 3am comments are always fun for me explain later...

I suppose either would work. I meant "realized what a drama is". But extending it to the importance people place on what the picture box shows them from the importance people place on emotional judgments wouldn't be difficult.

You're quite welcome, sir. ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-01-20, 21:05:38
I may vote for none-of-the-above.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ftomufert.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F07%2FNOTA-image-2.jpg&hash=b72445c367778c36816471a30726eca0" rel="cached" data-hash="b72445c367778c36816471a30726eca0" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://tomufert.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/NOTA-image-2.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-21, 00:37:08
Might as well stay at home as you are right about making an effort for what?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-01-21, 02:39:47

I may vote for none-of-the-above.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ftomufert.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F07%2FNOTA-image-2.jpg&hash=b72445c367778c36816471a30726eca0" rel="cached" data-hash="b72445c367778c36816471a30726eca0" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://tomufert.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/NOTA-image-2.jpg)

Don't be like that. Hillary isn't a shoo-in and neither is Trump. If you look to the last several election cycles, the early front runners didn't win....
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-01-21, 03:19:54
So true. This could go the other way very easily.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fjoemiller.us%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FJeb-Bush2.jpg&hash=e9d243d05bed4eb635638e895078d3df" rel="cached" data-hash="e9d243d05bed4eb635638e895078d3df" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://joemiller.us/wp-content/uploads/Jeb-Bush2.jpg)(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.isthatbaloney.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F06%2Fsocialist-bernie-sanders.jpg&hash=9d89f43fd64e2ab1fdd535f63824ff87" rel="cached" data-hash="9d89f43fd64e2ab1fdd535f63824ff87" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.isthatbaloney.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/socialist-bernie-sanders.jpg)

Anti-Hillary vs Anti-Trump
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-01-21, 09:45:16
No constitutionalists here, I take it? :) I'll vote for Cruz in the primary — and, hopefully, in the general — election.
Hey! Even "The Donald" has said that nobody likes him! (Does Trump think that he's running for Miss Congeniality? :) ) Isn't that reason enough -in our current political climate- to vote for him?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-01-22, 02:08:16
No constitutionalists here, I take it?

If anyone here thinks they are, they aren't. As long as you want to argue political sides of issues you exist outside constitutionalism. Party politics, smh. Fox News hasn't prepared you to be constitutional at all. If you wanna pull source to support an opinion, fine. Be fooled. If you wanna act by principles laid out and take steps to use the avenues available to promote change in your government... Then let's talk.   
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-01-22, 04:55:49
Fox News hasn't prepared you to be constitutional at all.
Why in the world would anyone think a TV network could offer such preparation? I'm not Howie… :)
If anyone here thinks they are, they aren't.
What kind of logic do you call that? "Cynic's Dilemma"? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-01-22, 07:58:45

)
If anyone here thinks they are, they aren't.
What kind of logic do you call that? "Cynic's Dilemma"? :)

Could be many things so just pick the one that makes you more comfortable. Don't mind me I just got here.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-01-22, 08:49:45
I suspect RJ gets most of his "news" from RT… How about you :)
Don't mind me I just got here.
In other words, you don't actually say anything; I got that, early on.

Shall we meet, again, on the Global Warming thread…? :) (I've noticed that most of the people with strident positions don't understand the science. And most internet posters who claim to understand the science really don't…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-01-22, 09:28:02
I suspect RJ gets most of his "news" from RT… How about you

If you can't tell then clearly that's not a variable that matters. Something to consider.
I'm a conservative -of sorts- and a Madisonian

You only operate on a particular level.
In other words, you don't actually say anything; I got that, early on.

My posts are transparent to you for that reason...
Shall we meet, again, on the Global Warming thread…?  :)  (I've noticed that most of the people with strident positions don't understand the science. And most internet posters who claim to understand the science really don't…)

Did that make you feel smart? Trying to position yourself as someone who "gets it" is a powerful debating technique, sure. But I won't be engaging the thread much. In my quest to say nothing I don't interfere with such drivel. However just for you...

The science is not in. It's barely started. What it needs is reliable standards for collection and logging the data, not dismissed. The models are only as good as the data we provide but they have shown plenty to justify current concerns about climate. Doesn't matter if it's tomorrow or 1000 years away- get the data. Besides, that and economic stability go a long with reducing our dependency on fossil fuels. [Thread closed] Have fun in there "getting it".
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-01-22, 21:41:26

No constitutionalists here, I take it? :) I'll vote for Cruz in the primary — and, hopefully, in the general — election.
Hey! Even "The Donald" has said that nobody likes him! (Does Trump think that he's running for Miss Congeniality? :) ) Isn't that reason enough -in our current political climate- to vote for him?

I might vote for him just to see how he's going to build a fence on the Mexican border and make Mexico pay for it.
To quote one source: "The actual cost for the rest of the border wall (roughly 1,300 miles) could be as high as $16 million per mile, with a total price tag of $15 billion to $25 billion" from a budget of $342 billion. Go Donald go!

God will not let this happen.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-22, 23:22:47
Considering you live in a country Oakdale where the media is very cleverly manipulated by the money barons that is very passingly amusing. As if Trump, Clinton, Cruz and palin weren't bad enough the matter of that border fence is another laugh. The place is trillions in debt and  the Republicans want to have that item at that cost? Small wonder the more intelligent here like the retired education man have to shake their heads.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-01-23, 00:56:18
He said they owed the US billions and he would make them pay for the wall with that. I can't substantiate his claim but what do I know.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-01-23, 02:08:57
God will not let this happen.

Or the ranchers that own the land, or the terrain it will have to cover...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-24, 03:02:02
One media commentator on television thought that Trump is doing so well because he is not a politician and many people are getting fed up with the political negative tradition. Sanders would be in practical terms a better direction but those who are fed up and going for Trump are well in basic terms not that bright.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-01-26, 03:30:09
but those who are fed up and going for Trump are well in basic terms not that bright.

They're having a visceral response to real and imagined situations, so no intelligence is required.

I did read one commentator that noted that Trump is used to being able to cut deals, even with business rivals. That means he might actually able to work with senators and representatives from across the aisle. Even so, his megalomaniacal, racist, sexist persona he built during the course of his campaign is reason enough not cast the ballot for someone else.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-01-26, 06:30:59
I can hardly see the international comunity taking Trump seriously...remembers me "porque no te callas?".

But that's propably the strategy, creating a false sense of "everybody being hostile" towards the USA, that's the kind of thing that creates ridiculous dictators, Trump's style.
Americans deserves better from the Republicans, I'm disapointed.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-01-26, 09:43:16
Most Interesting point. Speaking of dictators, there's commentary that he's crossed the line into fascism. What kept former President Bush below that line was the Fascist cult of personality and the authoritarianism displayed by Trump. (Possibly) a literal fascist versus Hillary might not be good choices, but never vote for the American would-be Mussolini.  Yes, I did mention the theory about being able work across the aisle; but getting the trains to run on time is far from the only thing.

There are rays of hope, though. It's early in the election, so Comet Trump could still burn out. If it doesn't in the GOP primary, it still will in the general election; especially as it crosses non-rightwing nut states (not even neccasarily the Democratic ones. Note what I said about Trump and the electoral college)
Americans deserves better from the Republicans, I'm disapointed.

We deserve better than a corrupt two party system that's rigged against a third party offering a serious contender to the presidency. I spoke before about a Republican Party implosion, owing antiquated views increasingly out of step with mainstream America. Perhaps a demolition crew needs to be sent to the Democratic Party as well.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-01-26, 11:22:32
Intelligence is not an attribute of a political party, a nation, a race or a continent.
However, teaching and indoctrination can and does influence everybody's mind.

I couldn't care less about who will become President of the USA.
Nevertheless I took the time to watch a few interviews with the Donald.
No matter if one agrees or not with what he is telling, at least he is the less mendacious among GOP candidates or compared to Billary.
Often he simply tells what he thinks. This way you can't win elections, so don't bother about him.
Is he a sexist? Maybe. I don't even want to know how Bill Clinton would compare to him in private life...
Is he a racist? Maybe. It doesn't need a racist to wage wars in breach with international law. Not even a Nobel prize for peace can stop some...

Whatever, God bless the new President of the US, whoever she/he will be. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-27, 01:42:27
Clinton is no outstanding creature or principled Joan of Arc. Has had dodgy stuff been a liar and a disappointing figure altogether. That Sanders does so well amongst the young wherever he goes says something and I am afraid the Trump legions do the same. The country is in a stake of flux and there is an undercurrent of dissatisfaction about politics the way it is and how the actual system is run. Both Trump and Clinton have the big bucks element behind them which hardly is very encouraging for progress and Sanders is a pleasant change from the dross.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-01-27, 23:39:02
Tom DeLay, a former Senator from Texas, has said today on his FB page that he expects Hillary will be indicted by the FBI within 2 months.

So it is then; Bernie "Feel the Bern" Sanders v Donald Trump/The Lipless Canadian Senator from Texas, Ted Cruz.


:yuck:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-28, 02:08:19
Well now, I would be happy as larry if that Clinton hussie was indicted and at least there would be one decent candidate that America could be really looking at and that he ha s young support is a brilliant change over there. I would even tempted to send a donation like another contributor here did to Sanders!  :up:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-01-29, 14:58:03
So the lipless Canadian (Ted Cruz) was center-stage in last night's debate, and what a spineless little charlatan he is. The man was so weak as water, that he actually verbally attacked a moderator because he felt ganged up on.

Lincoln and Coolidge and company must be rolling over in their respective graves at this point.

You have an entitled, jackass billionaire who claims he'll stand up to China, Daesh, etc, yet won't appear at a debate because he felt a woman moderator is too mean. (FFS)

Then you have a foreigner who has said everything, was for it before he was against it before he was for it again, who also felt the trio of moderators were being too mean.

That's not even mentioning the arch-hypocrite Rubio, who wants to bloviate on endlessly about Jesus Christ, who then follows that up immediately with "We should carpet-bomb the hell out of Iraq and Syria."   :faint: :faint: :faint:

I thought Rand Paul did well, but of course, because he doesn't believe in bankrupting the country by way of giving the military everything but the kitchen sink, he'll never win the nomination.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-01-29, 15:15:43
by way of giving the military everything but the kitchen sink

Why I never! Our troops are over there defending your freedom and you won't even give them a kitchen sink? Left-wing hippie! (Lulz)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: string on 2016-01-29, 17:08:11
I must confess, as a non American, I'm at a loss about what to think about the competition to be the Republican Candidate. The only one to have caught my eye is Mr Trump because he seems a belly laugh a minute; the rest seem, well, ordinary.

As far as I understand it, if Trump wins the public vote, the delegates have the mandate to overrule that and vote for someone they like who would not do the damage that Trump would. If it came to that who would win the delegates vote? I.e. Not the public vote.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-01-29, 19:35:46
Well the party will push forward whoever has the best chance of getting votes. But Trump will just go independent and split the Republican vote, and possibly even gain support from such a situation, thus costing the GOP the election.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-29, 23:54:13
Unfortunately for an advanced country the election shows how weak and pathetic the system is these days. For far too many Americans being standardised at restricted incomes compared to the top lot it is sadly farcical.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-01-30, 02:14:33
In other words, Howie, your "principle" is ienvy: You judge how well you're doing by a comparison to others — if someone else has more, you "feel" you have less.
You're ripe for conversion to full-blown socialism! :) Good luck with that.

Perhaps you should re-read George Orwell's Animal Farm
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-01-30, 04:08:46
Meh. What happens to Congress is what interests me. This one is easy to call.

The GOP is obviously in trouble. But it's not the first time one of the main two have had to reform under a new cause. It'd be nice to see one of the other parties (Libertarians for example) use this time to assert themselves. Offshoot parties like the Tea Party have always died out, with various results depending of the issues that created them.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-31, 03:17:52
Envious of what Oakdale??

Spending half the globe's military expenditure - 40 million poor on stamps - salaries not progressing - taxes weighted for the rich - a million a year losing homes - running a torture camp in Cuba where you should not be at all - 2.3 million ic prisons - executions by gas, electricity, pills, firing squad - increasing militarising of police - shooting mad - scores of mass killings - lack of wide democracy due to money control of the big 2 and that is just a start! Democracy?

Now I know you are trying dear man to be funny but you have HAD to do that because the hard fact cannot be explained so thanks for the opportunity to remind of this. And the latest news is that the New York Times has come out for that damn woman, Clinton by there again that media is part of the inhouse mob who really control things. It is not the people and it SHOULD be!

The stats I mention here will still be there under Clinton when finished two terms and it is not surprising that in depth and sensible Americans can see the worth of the outside, Sanders. What is a pleasant and brilliant thing is the numbers of the younger age who flock to hear him. Now he would be a great leap forward in democracy and for the worth of the millions of the decent who want to be able to stand for America and be principled not brained by the media and their money barons. Well done to Sanders.  :up:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-02, 07:13:06
Interesting. Trump came in second in Iowa, but Rubio came relatively close to beating the narcissistic blowhard who appears to have a dead animal on his head (just bury the poor thing, will ya :( ) Maybe this provides evidence for a theory that I read that says people may claim to be Trump supporters to pollsters, but the reality of what his is starts to sink in at ballot time.

I still subscribe to the theory that he's a literal fascist, complete with the racism, xenophobia, cult of personality and authoritarianism. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-04, 06:46:47
Well in general world authoritarianism is part of the country in the world.

Although I feel from a safe distance that Sanders is the better of all of them on both sides in a general assessment it does not give a very good overall political picture for the country's system. The Republicans are in a poor state of flux and the Democrats will have that yakking bore Clinton in the White House. Will she make any difference to the economy, poor, vast unemployed, stifling of wages and so on? No she will not as she is in the pockets of the money barons and the vast amounts allowed to be spent do not come down from heaven do they??
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-05, 13:05:38
No she will not as she is in the pockets of the money barons and the vast amounts allowed to be spent do not come down from heaven do they??

That's why I support Trump. He doesn't have to appeal to the money barons.

Committed Republicans will always support the Republican candidate.
Committed Democrats will always support the Democrat candidate.
What about the 43% of voters who say they're independent? They're bullshitting themselves.
Quote
Reporting an Independent political identity does not guarantee the absence of partisanship. Independents demonstrated considerable variability in relative identification with Republicans versus Democrats as measured by an Implicit Association Test…To test whether this variation predicted political judgment, participants read a newspaper article describing two competing welfare or special education policies. The authors manipulated which policy was proposed by which party…Regardless of the policy details, these implicit partisans preferred the policy proposed by “their” party, and this effect occurred more strongly for implicit than explicit plan preference. The authors suggest that implicitly partisan Independents may consciously override some partisan influence when making explicit political judgments, and Independents may identify as such to appear objective even when they are not.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/01/08/most-political-independents-actually-arent/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/01/08/most-political-independents-actually-arent/)
============
Q: What about the Scots who like the U.S.?
A: There aren't any.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-02-05, 20:35:18
3 months ago, I placed a $100 bet with a former Political Science professor of mine that Rubio would wind up being the Repub nominee (with me saying Rubio would be it, and him saying Cruz would be it).

He's been gloating for the past week about that damned lipless Canadian's Iowa Caucus win, but I will wind up being proven right, no question about that.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-05, 22:49:54
…the media is still pushing the meme that a conservative shouldn't be nominated, because a conservative can't be elected. And yet they're reticent, when it comes to handicapping a "social democrat"! Hm.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-06, 01:34:23
Of course not. It's all but impossible to be a political conservative in America if you've set foot outside long enough to see what really happening in the world. I think Oxford should redefine Republican to "Someone who lives inside a bubble." :)
That's why I support Trump. He doesn't have to appeal to the money barons.

I've never understood this argument in favor of Trump. He doesn't need to play to money interests because he IS money interests. Well, his supporters claim he can't be bought. but Ebenezer's Donald's history shows that can be accomplished easily.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-06, 07:16:58
It's all but impossible to be a political conservative in America if you've set foot outside long enough to see what really happening in the world. I think Oxford should redefine Republican to "Someone who lives inside a bubble."
I'm pretty sure (specially on evidence… :) ) that you meant to say: "Someone who doesn't live inside the bubble"…

"It's all but impossible to be a political conservative in America if you've set foot outside long enough to see what really happening in the world […]". Sang, you can't possibly be so stupid!

Go ahead and vote for Trump! (I don't think you'll get the chance…) Or Billary…

Rational government has never been something that you wanted, or would approve of. You just want what you want. Anything that doesn't give you that is "bad"…

BTW: How do you feel about the constitution of the United States? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-06, 13:43:31
A Canadian conservative is an American liberal.

Go ahead and vote for Trump! (I don't think you'll get the chance…) Or Billary…

Cruz, Oak?
=========
Take your pick boys.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.firstcovers.com%2Fcovers%2Fflash%2Fc%2Fcheech_%26amp%3B_chong-_up_in_smoke_%253C3-927547.jpg%3Fi&hash=85136b1af3ec80542855e0ec2ea74a8f" rel="cached" data-hash="85136b1af3ec80542855e0ec2ea74a8f" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://images.firstcovers.com/covers/flash/c/cheech_&_chong-_up_in_smoke_%3C3-927547.jpg?i)
Cheech or chong?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-06, 14:49:50
Rational government has never been something that you wanted, or would approve of. You just want what you want. Anything that doesn't give you that is "bad"…

Rational government is what I'm looking for. That doesn't come from Republicans. Notice something funny? Under Republican administrations, the deficit tends to increase (hell, Bush managed to take a surplus and a growing economy into a deficit and the worst economy since the Great Depression. Yes, it was Bush in part from re-legalizing financial instruments that were made illegal because of their large part in causing the former...) Now look at your ineffectual Republican congress, who currently have their heads so far up their asses they'll need surgery to remove it. Nope GOPers haven't been the most rational people of late and its far from congress's performance alone. They seem more obsessed with Planned Parenthood, LGBT, and the non-existent immigration crises (it peaked in 2007 and currently declining, xenophobic/racist idiots)  than doing anything productive, with appeals to their irrational base.

And why the hell would I vote that lunatic Trump?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-07, 02:20:59
Cruz, Oak?
Yes, Jaybro: I hope Ted Cruz will win the GOP nomination, and the general election.

Like Sanders, he is not a "stealth" candidate… What he says is what he means. What does he say that you object to?
———————————————————
@Sang: (Insert your usual balderdash… That's what you'll respond to, anyway. Why waste my time? :) )
BTW: Nevada's primary elections are looming — your picks are…?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-07, 02:35:45
@Sang: (Insert your usual balderdash… That's what you'll respond to, anyway. Why waste my time?

Because you say stupid shit like "Rational government has never been something that you wanted, or would approve of. " Maybe you really think that, having tried to make up my positions on issues for years and are now confusing your hallucinations with what I actually said.

But on the issue of rational governance, you really haven't noticed the disconnect the GOP and reality? Your man Cruz, for instance, doesn't realize carpet bombing will lead to more ISIS, not less. Yes, folks, he said "We will utterly destroy ISIS. We will carpet-bomb them into oblivion. I don’t know if sand can glow in the dark, but we’re going to find out!” The only type of bomb that could make the sand glow is nuclear. Maybe he didn't mean to say he'll take the "war on terror" nuclear, but that's the implication. Don't get me wrong. I don't think he's insane enough to do that (maybe Trump is, though), but these continuous irrational statements cast doubt on if a Republican is capable of rational governance. After all, do rational people say one irrational thing after another. Some media outlets, including the liberal Huffington Post, have defended Cruz on this issue by saying perhaps he doesn't even know what carpet bombing is.


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-07, 05:07:13
Because you say stupid shit like "Rational government has never been something that you wanted, or would approve of. " Maybe you really think that, having tried to make up my positions on issues for years and are now confusing your hallucinations with what I actually said.
What you've actually said, over the years, is what I respond to: Obamacare is good, because the only alternative is a single-payer system… Climate change is a dire problem that 97% of "climate scientists" agree on… The Citizens United case was wrongly decided… Al Gore won the presidency in 2000 (but Richard Nixon didn't, 1960!)… Roe v. Wade was correctly decided…  The 14th Amendment to the constitution is carte blanche to re-write the rest of the document, by judicial fiat…

Your positions are straightforward: You want what you want! Mine remain grounded upon a desire for limited government and fidelity to the constitution.

BTW: Carpet-bombing is a term from the '40s thru the '70s. Sand turned to glass by conventional munitions would, indeed, likely glow… :)
Brains turned to mush by so-called institutions of "higher education" likewise would glow, reddish… :)

What about Cruz's stated positions bothers you? What about those of Sanders and Clinton don't? :)

Relax! You'll get your vote; and you can do your part to support the candidate of your choice, no? (I think it's amazingly funny that Clinton has accused Sanders of "slimming" her!) But perhaps I'm wrong: Won't you vote for whatever candidate the Democrat Party puts forward?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-07, 16:53:47
Brains turned to mush by so-called institutions of "higher education" likewise would glow, reddish

:jester: Like Ted Cruz's, who graduated from Princeton University in 1992, and then from Harvard Law School in 1995? :jester:

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pubzi.com%2Ff%2Fsm-quaver-music-note-symbol.png&hash=962cab833c25ac89055ba175c53aec48" rel="cached" data-hash="962cab833c25ac89055ba175c53aec48" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.pubzi.com/f/sm-quaver-music-note-symbol.png) Glow little Cruz brain, glimmer, glimmer. (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pubzi.com%2Ff%2Fsm-quaver-music-note-symbol.png&hash=962cab833c25ac89055ba175c53aec48" rel="cached" data-hash="962cab833c25ac89055ba175c53aec48" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.pubzi.com/f/sm-quaver-music-note-symbol.png)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-07, 17:59:17
The 14th Amendment to the constitution is carte blanche to re-write the rest of the document, by judicial fiat…

I have never said that. What I did say is that provides equal protection under the law for all citizens, which it blatantly does. Courts all over the political spectrum agree with that interpretation.  Mine is an educated, informed interpretation. Meanwhile continue pretending you know better than the best legal minds in the country. Delusions of superiority are what you excel at. :yes:
What about Cruz's stated positions bothers you?

For one, I disagree with his solution to ISIS, out of respect for human life. I don't believe in carpet bombing whole cities to go after a terrorist group. That position alone says he should not be president, on the grounds that he'll draw us into another long, pointless war, if not ignite WWIII
Won't you vote for whatever candidate the Democrat Party puts forward?

Maybe that can stop when Republicans put forward somebody that's at least sane. For instance, I could give our governor Sandoval his due consideration. But the current crop of them appeals to fear and ignorance and has become the very opposite of the party of Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt. Do you understand yet? No? Let me put in even simpler terms for. It's not pro-Democratic as much as listening to Republicans and having to say "Are you kidding? You must be drunk!"
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-08, 07:35:26
:jester:  Like Ted Cruz's, who graduated from Princeton University in 1992, and then from Harvard Law School in 1995?  :jester:
Yup! William F. Buckley came out of Yale, as well… :)

For one, I disagree with his solution to ISIS, out of respect for human life. I don't believe in carpet bombing whole cities to go after a terrorist group. That position alone says he should not be president, on the grounds that he'll draw us into another long, pointless war, if not ignite WWIII
Of course, you recognize rhetoric… The fact is, Obama's "deal" with Iran is more likely to ignite WWIII.

But, I take it, that's it? His small government ambitions, tax reform and consistent fidelity to the Constitution — you're okay with? :)

You always seem to look for the sound-byte, the "for that alone" type of argument, Sang… It's your nature, and your education encourages it! :)

If you're seriously worried about a Cruz presidency -because of his rhetoric against ISIS- keep in mind that he would likely require (and respect) Congress' prerogative, to declare war.
Your years of living under the Obama administration have dulled your senses: We don't elect kings, though we've elected presidents who act as though we did.
——————————————————————————
Of course, I understand that -in your world- all Republicans are lying bastards! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-08, 12:56:53
The fact is, Obama's "deal" with Iran is more likely to ignite WWIII.

I thought you stopped smoking that stuff.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-08, 19:14:24
Clinton is a damnable hypocrite and comes out with guff when challenged by Saunders on her being part of the money barons. Just look at what she gets from that quarter and then more recently what was it - around $675,000 dollars for 3 talks to the money lot? When challenged on television on that one she was shown to be on the back foot saying that was what always dished out. Talk about being two-faced?

The Republican contenders are all a joke and as bad as each other and Saunders is the only principled one on the Democratic corner. What a damnable lesson in the lack of proper democracy. For the millions of midle class people the lack of movement on incomes what the soaking rich pay in tax and the struggle of the working class the Republicans have no-one of any competence. The only half decent one for the Democrats is Saunders as Clinton is just another establishment yak mouth and an utter two-face and waste of time.  One cannot help but feel for so many over there who are frustrated by what passes for a system ore even a decent democracy and in the future it is interesting that Saunders attracts so many of the youthful citizenry. The republicans will not win the election and we assume that Clinton will and you can take that as just a continuation of the political mess the nation is in. If Saunders does well in polls it is a glimmer for the future but for now after the Presidential farce things will just be the same under that two-faced woman.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-09, 07:00:33
The Republican contenders are all a joke

It's a joke when they consider themselves "constitutional conservatives" when the only part of it they seem to know is the second amendment
If Saunders does well in polls it is a glimmer for the future but for now after the Presidential farce things will just be the same under that two-faced woman.

Sanders, Howie. He does seem to have a chance, but we'll see. You're right that in him there's a glimmer of hope for the future. That's not necessarily because his positions, but he's showing that somebody with integrity can do well. Maybe we'll see somebody with integrity on the GOP side. They claim to be "anti-establishment" but are just in bed with Wall Street, who in practical terms are more the establishment than the Washington insiders. But those clowns claim to not be part of the Republican National Committee establishment. If that's true or not, they're still representing the corrupt establishment in the truer, broader sense of the term. 
You always seem to look for the sound-byte, the "for that alone" type of argument, Sang

Not at all. But his foreign policy is truly frightening. Meanwhile, I see your fondness for going after strawmen has blossomed in a torrid love affair.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-02-10, 03:04:37
Looks as though Bernie and The Donald have won New Hampshire.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-10, 03:26:25
 Meanwhile, GOP voters there continue to show their ignorance of the Constitution. Meet the Press tells us:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cazx37-XEAAOpJW.jpg:large)

Fear, ignorance and constitutional illiteracy continue to the rule the GOP.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-10, 04:07:48
Interesting point of fact. No Muslim terrorist group has ever managed to poison an entire American city, but Republicans have.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-10, 05:49:20
Meanwhile, GOP voters there continue to show their ignorance of the Constitution.
No, Sang: You continue to show your ignorance of the Constitution… Congress or the executive branch have the power to limit immigration however they choose. It needn't be "fair" — and the rights of U.S. citizens are not granted, by the Constitution, to foreign nationals.
Surely, you know that? :) No? :) Well, I'm not surprised: Much of what you think you know just isn't so! :)

Immigration policy is just that: Policy. (And, yes, policy usually has goals relevant to current and projected circumstances…) "Fairness" is not a policy, in this case; it's a canard.

Should everyone wish to be an American? Hm. I can think of a great many who wouldn't; and almost as many whom we should preclude…
How about you? (I mean, what do you think? :) You were born here, I presume; and of citizen-parents. No matter how much I disagree with you, you're a fellow American — as entitled to express his opinion as I am.
—————————————————————————————
No Muslim terrorist group has ever managed to poison an entire American city, but Republicans Democrats have.
Fixed that for ya! :) Aren't ya glad you don't have to drink the water in Flint, MI? :(
(What were you referring to, BTW? Don't be shy! Do tell…)
——————————————————————————————
I've chosen a source you will likely accept:
Quote
[I've clipped the egregious Democrat talking-points that pander to their "true believers"…]
CNN noted that (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/11/health/toxic-tap-water-flint-michigan/) “Flint residents say they were kept in the dark for 18 months until a local doctor, Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha a physician in a local medical center pediatric ward (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/11/health/toxic-tap-water-flint-michigan/) took things into her own hands. “When (my research team and I) saw that it was getting into children and when we knew the consequences, that’s when I think we began not to sleep…at first, the state publicly denounced her work, saying she was causing near hysteria. They spent a week attacking her before reversing their narrative and admitting she was right.” Ironically, adding that agent would have cost about $100 a day, and experts say 90 percent of the problems with Flint’s water would have been avoided.
[underlining added…]
(source (http://www.occupydemocrats.com/2016/01/15/after-poisoning-entire-city-with-lead-republicans-swiftly-vote-to-gut-obamas-clean-water-rule-2/))


The city of Flint couldn't come with an extra $100 a day…? And it's the Republican governor's fault? Why do cities elect Democrats, I wonder…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-10, 08:47:22
No, Sang: You continue to show your ignorance of the Constitution… Congress or the executive branch have the power to limit immigration however they choose.


No, Sang: You continue to show your ignorance of the Constitution… Congress or the executive branch have the power to limit immigration however they choose.

You're trying to invoke the plenary power doctrine, but I guarantee banning an entire religion of 1.6 billion adherents entry into the US wouldn't survive a legal challenge. Remember, Trump isn't just addressing immigration, but mere entry into the US. But let's say I'm wrong and it did, such a thing would be monumentally stupid on multiple levels. Wouldn't that be fabulous for international relations banning a Kuwaiti Sheik for entry into the US on the grounds that he's a Muslim. It's plays right in ISIS and Al-Quada's hands.

How do you necessarily know somebody is a Muslim in the first place? There are countries that pretty evenly divided between Islam and Christianity and even predominantly Muslim countries have Christians and Jews. How would those GOPers be able to tell them apart, gonna have the Christians were a cross and the Jews a Star of David (that would create problems of its own...), as if a Muslim couldn't pick one up for five bucks (if not less?) What of Caucasian Muslims? Then did you wanna open existing Muslims in the US to radicalization by making them feel discriminated against, wanna prove to Muslims that it's a "clash of civilizations?" In case you don't understand because you're slow, this attempt to keep terrorists out would create more terrorists. Obviously, you Republicans didn't think this one through (as usual with your issues) and I'm barely scratching the surface.

But it's doubtful that I'm wrong.
The Wall Street Journal (http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-calls-for-ban-on-muslim-entry-into-u-s-1449526104) tells us that constitutional scholars are calling it unconstitutional. It's your right-wing media that hallucinates that such a thing is legal in the constitution, although it should be noted the WSJ is a conservative publication. Your right-wing blogs point out cases in which people were denied entry based on race and national origin, but those cases are old. Banning an entire major world religion would not survive Federal Courts and ultimately the SCOTUS today, just as those old examples would have struck down  
Should everyone wish to be an American?

Of course not. But that's based on the personal background and character of the person, not on his or her race and religion. There are horrible middle-eastern Muslims just as there are toxic white, Christian Europeans. Likewise, there are hardworking, intelligent people with good character of every race, religion and nationality. I don't think this is hard, except to ignorant, racist GOPers.

Now onto Flint. Did I say it was all Snyder's fault? Flint was under the management of Darnell Earley, appointed by Snyder. Perhaps even you can understand this. He was not elected by the people. Earley claimed he objected to the switching the water source, but there is no record of his supposed objections in any of the resolutions. His excuse is that the decision to which water source was made before he became manager. Former Mayor Dayne Walling called Earley's account "blatantly false" and City Council President Josh Freeman called it a "fairy tale. " Regardless of who's to blame, why didn't Snyder's man order the hundred bucks a day be spent, especially after the problems with the water supply became evident (almost immediately?) Where the Snyder administration's culpability comes in is that they failed to respond months ago when they complaints over water quality and sick people were already coming from Flint. What we have here is a case of cost cutting over humanity , GOP style.  
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-10, 10:21:26
You're trying to invoke the plenary power doctrine, but I guarantee banning an entire religion of 1.6 billion adherents entry into the US wouldn't survive a legal challenge.
Upon what Constitutional basis would such a "legal" challenge be based…?
Is there a "right" of entry into the U.S. mentioned anywhere in the Constitution? There are laws passed by congress that prescribed and proscribed nationalities — and, while I'll agree, they weren't "fair" (or even reasonable…), they were Constitutional. Likewise, some of Obama's executive actions have actually abrogated adopted laws. Doesn't that bother you?

But I suppose you mean, if there are enough liberal activist judges on the Supreme Court, than "importing" international law (the laws of other nations, and those of the United Nations…) into our own Supreme Court's deliberations might swing their opinions towards the way you'd like…? :)

I'm opposed to accepting foreign-law precedent in our courts. Their ways are -often- not ours; and, while we may understand them, they are unlikely to ever understand us.
(I don't know why it's so hard, for those from the Old World -and Great Britain, in particular- to "get" us: They had all the same pieces of the puzzle we had…)

I suppose it's much like RJ imagines: Every crack-pot with a soapbox should be considered a viable candidate! What else is democracy about? :)

Someone said:
Quote
John Yoo, a conservative law professor at the University of California, Berkeley, said the” proposal is unconstitutional”, pointing to First Amendment guarantees of the free exercise of religion.

“The United States cannot discriminate on the basis of religion,” Mr. Yoo said. He added that in the past, the U.S. has discriminated based on country of origin, but that is different from a wholesale religious ban.
Why…? Yoo has been wrong before. (Some of you may remember…) But never so bald-faced, stupidly wrong!
The distinction is not moot; it is plain and persistently pernicious. Actual adherence to Islamic doctrine requires the elimination of the United States of America… Isn't that a declaration of war?
Of course, followers of Islam could reject much of what their Holy Books say… They won't, of course.
And the so-called "radicals" will continue, with a lot of support from the "moderates".

Where -I'd ask Mr. Yoo- does it say that it can't discriminate on the basis of religion…?
(This is a serious question: Until the U.S. rules the world, only our citizens are entitled to the "rights" of U.S. citizens… But, of course, most of us would like to see everyone else have them.)

Has it not occurred to the "powers-that-be" that those who desire (and conspire to achieve…) Shari'a seek the demise of American republicanism, and democracy in general?
The usual means of succession in Muslim countries is — assassination; their "books" and history show that that is what they expect.
Do we want that…?

Does anyone who says Yes understand how far back we'd go, to get there?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-10, 11:21:51
Shari'a seek the demise of American republicanism, and democracy in general?
Do yourself a favor and look up from those right-wing blogs, will ya? Such a ban will never get passed in the first place. It just red meat for GOP primary voters and the candidates know this. But the fact remains that its unconstitutional on religious grounds and if it wasn't.




Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ovas on 2016-02-10, 17:37:03
I hope you're lucky America with Trump. Offer to arrange a vote on moderators of candidate in Presidents of America.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-10, 17:53:15
One can only be unlucky with Trump.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-11, 00:52:09
But the fact remains that its unconstitutional on religious grounds and if it wasn't.
Cogent, as always, Sang! What was it you meant to say? Care to try again? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-12, 02:48:41
No. Instead I'll ask you how it's possible to think this good policy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-12, 03:18:14
Didn't say it was! But it is not unconstitutional.

The policy of taking into the U.S. refugees from Syria and other areas over-run by ISIS -knowing full-well we can't vet them- is risky. What benefits outweigh the risks?
(And please don't say something like "Good PR"… That matters little, in the Middle East.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-12, 15:01:42
Note again, we're talking about a total ban on Muslims coming into the country not just would-be immigrants. Perhaps you're not understanding how draconian the positions of your GOPers are here's where we're running into constitutional issues but acceptance or refusal of refugees probably is constitutional. Trump's proposal, which NH GOP primary voters seemed to support would ban people like Peter Murphy (former lead singer of Bauhaus) from entering the country on the grounds that converted to Islam. Get it now?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-12, 19:30:43
The highly unusual circumstances happening in the carnival, ooops, Presidential race show how much people have gradually become disconcerted with what passes for a political or representative system. There are unfortunately an almost circus for a developed country. Thankfully I live 3,000 miles away from Wall Street land but iordinary people have at last started coming round to what passes for a way of doing things. On the |Republican side there is really no-one of a moderate sense hence the rise of Trump and makes that side look so silly. On the Democrats corner, Clinton is a very snide woman who is being supported by big money. That incident where she got $670,000  for 3 speeches for a big money corporation she answered with a stupid stance. She is just as bad and is so much part of the in-house money lot. Even when she got beat by Bernie Saunders coming onto platforms you could tell she was so damn false with all that smiling and pointing to people with out on laughter. She is a hypocrite. If she wins it will just be the same establishment  and make no difference to the middle or working class people. Although I am no of Saunders tradition I would say that his thinking is long overdue for America..

One cannot but feel for the ordinary American who has had his loyalty misused and suffered the propaganda guff of the media which is controlled by the big money corner.  The republicans are at sixes and sevens but the Democrats under Clinton will make little difference. However Bernie Saunders does I hope it is a new direction especially for the young who have been sidetracked but now given some home by the views of that man.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-13, 00:50:24
Oh please, Howie. Here we go again. You're saying the British establishment candidates aren't supported by big money? Spare us.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-13, 22:37:30
The usual ex-colonist brained guff.

We in practice have a far wider parliamentary system. There are a 3 main national parties (4 if you consider that UKIP now has an MP and also won the Euro Elections on britain). In addition there are regional parties like the Welsh and Scottisn nationalist parties and the Unionists in Ulster. It is completely different from what goes on in your messed up money controlled fiefdom. Some 40% of your lower House are multi-millionaires and 60% of the Senate. The 2 parties are rules by money barons and you do not have the wider situation we have in parliament the standing committees and wider democracy. So you are the big losers and that Clinton woman taking in that $670,000 dollars from the finance sector from 3 speeches alone?

So you are trying to ignore that both the Democrats and Republicans aren't tied up with the Wall Street controllers whereas here having the national and regional aspect to our democracy puts you lot in the damnable shade.  So sneer and be as crassly ignorant as you like but even with rich people our system is broader based and more challenging to money than your political joke.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-02-14, 02:17:02
Some 40% of your lower House are multi-millionaires and 60% of the Senate.

I'd love to hear you explain The House of Lords.

But in Britain if you're born into money you're just supposed to have it therefore no one can say anything about it. So it'd just be a whiny mess of excuses.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-14, 02:39:44
Howie, tells us all about Lord Ashcroft worth 1.48 billion USD :) I'm not saying Republicans and Democrats aren't beholden to big money, I'm just saying you're quick to judge the US without looking at your own country first - as usual.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-14, 04:41:32
RJ, this might please you (…before you realize what it means! :) ): The sad new of Antonin Scalia's death creates a situation where the Republican Senators must prevent another Obama nominee from ascending to the Supreme Court. Should they fail to do so, the U.S. will likely see its first successful third party…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-02-14, 14:00:38
That clearly was a "the king[maker] is dead" event. You can spot a succession event by how the usual long-winded eulogies about the deceased's love of children and dogs are largely foregone for the more urgent matter of succession.

I liked Hillary Clinton's impromptu trolling of nominating Obama for Supreme Court Justice. It would probably be among the last candidates a President Clinton would pick, but for Candidate Clinton to "endorse" it was very House of Cards (the US version).
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-14, 15:57:58
Midnight Racoon is at his usual level and maybe there is a mental redneck degree in the ex-colonies. Trying to use Lord Ashcroft in comparison to what goes on over the pond is an illustration of stupidity. I detailed thw far wider parliamentary system we have compared to the big 2 money parties that run America. There is no comparison at all. Even with the Democrats the tens of millions of disadvanted are there everywhere in the USA. Instead of being able to compare with our better system and wider party involvement even for local issues we get utter stupidity from him.

It will in general make no damn difference to those tens of millions of the worse off in the wonderful Disneyland that is US politics or so-called democracy. What is there is by the decision of the money me and they are with the Democrats too and so is that smart arse, Hillary Clinton. The one more important matter is that the excellent showing nders will be a chance fror the future. When I watched her being interviewed regarding the Wall Street mioney men speech payment she squirmed. Both Trump and Saunders (who is more positive) get the bounce because so many Americans are fed up with what passes for a democratic thing and they know it.

Clinton like that two-faced Obama will continue with the Wall Street mob, encourage military bases everywhere for the age-old groan of "security". Indeed so many Yanks have been brained by that word they tend to accept it! Drones will continue to grow (remember wonderful Obama fired off more of them that GW Bush did). The unwanted base on Cuba will continue and is a damnable disgrace  being in a country that does not want the US base on their soil. Rights, freedoms, etc? A load of codswallop.

Clinton will get the White House and the people will have missed their chance to get somewhere more positive than bankrupting the place for imperialism and military corporate business. The salary stagnation, struggling economy and building a new Cold War will all continue The so-called 2 party system is a damnable joke and even more so the further down society you are. If there was a wider range of parties in the millionaires Hill that would make a difference but the money controllers will see that doesn't happen as they are in charge of the Democrats and republicans so forget real democracy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-14, 18:41:36
The specific complaint of yours that I was addressing is the supposed wealth of our lawmakers. I was merely noting that Lord Ashcroft has all of ours beat my large margin and he's not the only one your side. Then, as per usual, you veer off into your usual anti-American rant like a broken robot that can only repeat the same phrases in a loop.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-02-14, 19:56:13
Well he's doing enough body swerving to keep up a hula hoop. Jaws about a lack of democracy from a land where hereditary offices keep watch over his diverse parliamentary dreams. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-15, 14:48:07
There is no comparison at all ensband fine you dashed well know it. We DO have a wider political system in PRACTICE and you don't. Just two big money parties controlling everything and leaving increasing numbers of ordinary Americans out. For goodness sake even for your built-in self smugness on the wonderful system there is no comparison . Here more parties are involved and there is not a same situation as in the corporate string pullers in the ex-colonies. Trying to use the Head of state matter is grasping at straws and when you look at the repeated families in the USA involved in senior politics you do have a nerve.

I tried to make it as simple as I could for the would-be rednecks here by showing we had more than 2 national parties like your unfortunate controlled fiefdom as well as regional political parties. Far more democratic than the 2 control freak lots you have. That nearly half your lower house are multi-millionaires and over 60% of the upper fiascon says more directly. If your people were allowed a wider opportunity maybe there would not be so many Americans who wonder why they should bother voting and know who really runs the country. It is in practice a crying shame the way the country has been taken over by the greedy money barons and as I repeatedly have pointed out that there was a President and a Republican too (!) who warned tyou all of the increasing power of money moguls (Eisenhower, remember??)

What we get here i this thread is a determination not to face the hard truth that many Americans are feeling nowadays hence the rise of Trump and Saunders (more positive of the two. Utter frustration, misuses of that Constitution and money control while training people to be ultra nationalist mental flag waving brained. Rather than face the truth the mindset controllers try to avoid the truth by getting a dig elsewhere.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-15, 15:36:56
Utter frustration, misuses of that Constitution and money control while training people to be ultra nationalist mental flag waving brained.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/eo2I24NPAo9TG/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-02-15, 17:56:22

The usual ex-colonist brained guff.

We in practice have a far wider parliamentary system. There are a 3 main national parties (4 if you consider that UKIP now has an MP and also won the Euro Elections on britain). In addition there are regional parties like the Welsh and Scottisn nationalist parties and the Unionists in Ulster. It is completely different from what goes on in your messed up money controlled fiefdom. Some 40% of your lower House are multi-millionaires and 60% of the Senate. The 2 parties are rules by money barons and you do not have the wider situation we have in parliament the standing committees and wider democracy. So you are the big losers and that Clinton woman taking in that $670,000 dollars from the finance sector from 3 speeches alone?

So you are trying to ignore that both the Democrats and Republicans aren't tied up with the Wall Street controllers whereas here having the national and regional aspect to our democracy puts you lot in the damnable shade.  So sneer and be as crassly ignorant as you like but even with rich people our system is broader based and more challenging to money than your political joke.

Tell us more about how food and clothing pantries have exponentially increased since that twa* Cameron has been in office please.
Is that the UK you want? The Scotland you want?

He is of course (thankfully) your problem, but I for one loathe the man. I was very lucky to get to have my study abroad experience when I did, as the very next semester, that fawking c*nt imposed those outrageous tuition feed UK-wide.

I have many fond memories of my study abroad experience, but some of my favorite were marching against David Cameron and his jackass policies, in solidarity with loads of professors who were due to be let go at the end of the semester.

Apologies for some slight vulgarity, but this sums up my thoughts on Mr. Howie's hero, David Cameron:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V0zYJtMMpY[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-02-15, 17:59:28
I tried to make it as simple as I could for the would-be rednecks here by showing we had more than 2 national parties

You see it is my username that's really simple.
ensband

You're trying to over complicate this. Like your parliamentary system actually. I can only assume that is by design. Power is shifted around so you're not really sure who can do what, I guess. All I know is you can't explain it.

-92 peers are hereditary.
-26 of those are bishops.
-18 of 29 cabinet members are multimillionaires and that number has been higher more recently.
-400 people own over 90% of all the land in Scotland. 

Here's a good place to start explaining. (if you can put that hula hoop down.).

Defending your own system is probably impossible so you want to talk about the US all the time. You've proven that countless times. No thought you have is your own and you're nothing more than a bully. Your attacks only serve your tiny little feelings. Your wit isn't what upsets people. I gripe about my government too. I guess they feed you yours in a soup you find quite nice. As long as the establishment of clergy, hereditary peers and MPs that have enough influence and get nominated, not elected, don't cause too much fuss one house works pretty well if you give some of them executive powers and mention the queen every once in awhile. 

So please control yourself old man. Big boy time. (Or go back and play with your trains and boys like every weirdo ever.)      

*edited out some of the distraction.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-17, 03:12:09
You are a typical Yank and cannot answer the hypocritical charges. Instead you try and use the limited knowledge of how this democracy operates. It is the House of Commons which decides and the House of Lords does an excellent job of reviewing matters before the Commons which is the elected chamber makes the decision. The Commons includes a far wider political range than your chamber full of the moneyed lot does and you choose to ignore this because it does not suit you. In fact you lot are brained from young that you are the greatest democracy etc in the world and just look at the state of things in practice! Parties outside your bg two get nowhere but here they do and that does not suit you so handy for you to ignore the truth . It is always the same on this forum that when you system ius shown to be badly flawed grabbing hold of some small points where is the usual answer. Our MP's decide NOT the Lords which is a checking chamber. In addition our top taxed people pay around 25% of the tax brought in and they also get taxed more than your lot (not surprising considering the 40% and 60% I mention on the Hill).

So we in hard fact do have a broader representative system in our MP's the wide range of different parties and that is a much more democratic thing than you lot have got over there. Having been brained since young of being the world's greatest democracy it is hardly surprising the guff one gets from you but not your fault it is the way you are brought up. Only 2 parties in your "parliament" and you side swipe at us?! It doesn't matter a tinker's curse which of the 2 money controlled parties you have in power and when you see some of the people you have right now who want to be President that only belabours the deep flaw and problem you lot have got.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-17, 08:31:26
You are a typical Yank and cannot answer the hypocritical charges.
RJ, when a hypocrite calls you a hypocrite — what can you say? :) But, when a hypocrite is too ignorant or indoctrinated to know that he is one, others easily see it…
Carry on, old sod! :)
we in hard fact do have a broader representative system in our MP's the wide range of different parties and that is a much more democratic thing than you lot have got over there
First: You do know that most people are stupid and venal? :) Second, you've heard that stupidity multiplied by stupidity equals… Hm. What would you think? Third, your "parties" are mere window-dressing for the powers that be in you islands; if you are too daft to realize that, that's no skin off my nose. But It does mitigate the import of your diatribes… :)

Look at it this way, RJ: You're an ill-educated man, of little experience, little intellectual means or endeavor, and little interest in the world-at-large… But you are bellicose to an extent that makes something quite clear to me: You'd have made a fine Nazi! Most of the "pieces" are in place.
Too bad they didn't win WW II, huh? :)
You might have been an Uber-something or other!
But, quite naturally, you revert your admiration to the Russian strongman Putin — as the model of a statesman. (Guess even you recognize, the Reich ain't coming back.) Were you born a fascist, I wonder?
So we in hard fact do have a broader representative system in our MP's the wide range of different parties and that is a much more democratic thing than you lot have got over there.
Perhaps. But what has it got you? Indeed, if you can think of such tings, what will it get your children and grandchildren?
A Mao? A Lenin? A Hitler? A Tito? A Mussolini? A Lincoln? A Reagan? A Thatcher?

You're fond of being inconsequential. (You've earned that status, and you should be proud: When one has nothing left to give, one should retire — take up gardening, perhaps? Or toy trains? :) ) But you're also fond of criticizing your betters — those who have actually done better than you. That's just bile, boy-o; and you know it!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-17, 09:12:27
The Commons includes a far wider political range than your chamber full of the moneyed lot does and you choose to ignore this because it does not suit you.

Does it? The other day I read a piece proclaiming the Republican party has died and been replaced by waring factions of evangelicals, wall street types, perpetually angry Trumpites, Tea Partiers, etc. That in and of itself is not interesting. What makes it a little so is that poster noted that the Democratic Party is divided among Democratic Socialists, progressives, liberals (often conflated with progressives), etc. The take-away is that while only two parties have representation in Congress, they represent a wide array of viewpoints and backgrounds.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-17, 09:20:36
And the same kind of incoherent decadent society as GB? :)

Two of the things conservatism seeks to mitigate are incoherence and decadency… But some people actually want both! :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-02-17, 17:21:02
Instead you try and use the limited knowledge of how this democracy operates.

So you're saying I can't read some articles or such and understand the full scope of the situation? Don't worry. I knew you wouldn't understand. I did kind of expect you to give me a little more than I can read in articles or wiki tho. Sorry, I expected too much knowing your telly would provide the answers. Not like you've ever shown a capacity to be much more.

I guess the problem is I'm just not willing to attack a whole nation because I think you're a daft hypocrite. And others made a couple of points I meant to touch on in the follow up... So I guess this gets to be shorter than I initially thought.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-17, 23:14:26
No, you are being deliberately ignorant and grasp at straws which does not help you at all. Trying to use passing incidents to dismiss our far wider democracy is the point. Our parliament with far more political representation is way ahead of the 2 parties run by the rich that run your country.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-02-18, 00:37:13
No, you are being deliberately ignorant and grasp at straws which does not help you at all. Trying to use passing incidents to dismiss our far wider democracy is the point.

Translation: "Yo mama so fat she jumped in the air and got stuck!"

Our parliament with far more political representation is way ahead of the 2 parties run by the rich that run your country.

Okay. I'm still listening... Ehh, you know what? God save the Queen and good day, Sir. :salute: I'm in far too good a mood to bother.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-18, 18:17:18
No you cannot really answer the system your country is saddled with so fall back on the ususal trait of goung elsewhere to avoid the damnable truth. That so many Americans are suffering due to the system is only enhanced by the factual truth of this Presidential carnival race. On the Republican side a whole range of squabbling candidates and trump well in front (what a joke!). On the Democrat side Clinton who tries to say she is of the money barons corner but you lot ignore that hefty payout she got for speaking and sponsored by them. The other candidates Senator Saunders is of a stance that is traditionally out of sync with the traditional carve up. Clinton will get the job and will make no damn difference to the millions with stagnating incomes the homeless legions and the tens of millions of poor.

The support Trump and Saunders are getting says much about what passes over the pond as so many people as i have always said feel increasingly left out of things. There is no wide political party scenario and the 2 giants have made sure of that and Americans increasingly frustrated. Saunders is probably the best for the ordinary person but due to the control freakery of the money controlled government system and media a forlorn hope.  When you and others can come back with a proper multi-party representative system then boast but meantime give great credence to doing a sidestep or a desperate misdirection to somewhere else or fall back on sneering and sod all.

When Clinton takes over the barons will continue the half the global military bill will continue the numbers losing homes or or food stamps will not fall, confrontation with Russia for daring to challenge the part democracy country, attack countries that won't accept the hegemony are all going to be there. Democracy? The word is misused well!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-02-18, 23:39:12
About candidates, Pope Francis declared that that Trump thing can't be a Christian.
:lol:

Anyone that only thinks about building walls not about building bridges can't be a Christian, His Holyness said.
Francis, the people loves you.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-19, 01:16:18
It's a long-traditioned love: Fools have a special place in the hearts of most societies… But few forget that the fool is a fool! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-19, 01:55:13
 I wonder if Howie will at least learn to spell Sanders before the election?  ???
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-02-19, 01:59:24

I wonder if Howie will at least learn to spell Sanders before the election?  ???

Clearly this is who he is talking about.    :left:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Saunders_(American_football_coach) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Saunders_(American_football_coach))
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-19, 03:48:19
There's an amusing bio of Bernie Sanders on the Prison Planet site (…which I don't recommend, for any serious purposes!) that sticks pretty close to the facts. What a loser! Of course, government "service" was his best option…
His main idea seems to be that we can all get by, by taking in each others' laundry! :)
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Howie, you've lived your life the same way. Are you happy with it?

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-02-19, 06:57:52
It's a long-traditioned love: Fools have a special place in the hearts of most societies… But few forget that the fool is a fool!  :)

You go tell that to the hispanic vote... :)
Trump can say bye bye to his election. So many millon dollars vaporized with just a simple sentence. Yes, it must hurt deep inside. :lol:

The man was asking for it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-19, 15:54:06
Yep. He said a bunch of stupid crap already about them being rapists, etc in his quest to win the GOP primary. What he doesn't realize that a lot of legal hispanics (born in the this country or not) heard him call them rapists.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-02-20, 01:16:21
Yep. He said a bunch of stupid crap already about them being rapists


(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lol015.gif)  Geeeez, when will it ever end!?  Next, he might start calling them RACISTS.....well, it always works fer the Leftards. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)

Now, I know this is only the HuffPost, but somehow he keeps on keepin' on......no matter what he says.

It's almost like he's leading a protest, & everyone is angry enough to realize he's their only real shot to stuff it to the RINOs?

(https://i.imgur.com/YGrgQFd.jpg)


Hopefully they'll wake up soon enough to realize it's about the big picture.......stopping the Mother Queen Bitch....& the Socialtards

Now, excuse me....but the Captain says were coming into a school of Tuna....gotta go!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-20, 02:10:15
It's almost like he's leading a protest, & everyone is angry enough to realize he's their only real shot to stuff it to the RINOs?

Well the fact that it's HuffPo doesn't change the numbers any more that it coming from Fox or Breitbart does (I always find it amusing that Rightards think their sources are any better than HuffPo, Oakdale doesn't get confused again that doesn't mean that HuffPo isn't slanted and posts inane stories...:p) Anyway, Trump is and Sanders is doing so from his side of the spectrum. But Donald will never be elected in the general election, the electoral college stands in his way. Let me put this way; Trump gets the nomination, the Democrats break out the champagne.

But I have to wonder what happens to Trump's lead when more candidates start dropping out of the race. None of the those numbers show him having a majority. And what about delegate counts? The national poll for either party doesn't mean that much without looking at how each is doing in specific states, especially California.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-20, 02:49:51
This election carnival would mean something if the country had a wider democratic system and as I say it does not matter a tinker's cuss whether Democrats or Republicans win the scores of millions will be no better off. Well over two centuries and the place still hasn't grown up.  :happy:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-20, 10:30:19
A "wider democratic system"? :) You mean, street theater! Performance art! Such silliness does happen here; but not too many of us take it seriously: We're not so naive and ill-educated…
(I know you've seen "man on the street interviews" that do indeed make us seem ignorant idiots — but you'll note, they're always done in liberal strongholds! :) Something to ponder, eh? Nah. You don't ponder: You pussilate.)
You're welcome to your "system" and you well-know your next queen may well be a male! You precede us in almost all the varieties of perversities, excepting -perhaps- individualism: Without a backbone you can hardly manage to stand up on your own… Which is odd, considering we came from your stock; but we remembered, while you forgot.
(Of course, that's not entirely true; that we came from your stock… We're mostly English — you know, the folk that subjugated you. We had a history of freedom; you had a history of — what? Do tell, RJ!)

You'll stay in the EU because you are weak and poor: You need their alms, and you might require their strength. (Much as your devolution referendum per force failed, your threat of leaving the EU will… Need I mention again, weak and poor? :( I'm sorry it's so; but it's people like you who've made it so, RJ — half socialist, half fascist.) You know what you are — that makes you hate so many others, who aren't… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-02-20, 11:38:58
RJ — half socialist, half fascist.

Fascism was always very socialist by American republican standards. National-Socialism (nazis) even more. The working classes under fascism had much more social welfare and benefits than they ever had and still have in the US.

The political spectrum in Europe goes from Right to Left like this:
Fascist/Nationalists - Christian Democrats - Social Democrats (what you call socialists) - Socialists - Comunists - Exteme left groups (Trotskysts, Maoists and the sort).

Anarchists and environmentalists are somehow considered outsiders of the classic political spectrum but environmentalists are getting in.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-21, 02:46:57
Oakdale your system is not as wide as other places and very much including mine.. Although a completely different background the rise of the amusing Trump and in a completely different direct, Sanders proves your problem. And take note that Clinton's Democrat rival is right behind her and she is not getting landslides plus the high numbers of the young who are ired of what you have over there.

I would say Belfrager that National Socialism does as it claimed want to suggest it took the "best" out of Nationalism and Socialism but the other very obvious point is that places with a strong RC population where very easy to get a strong fascist stance. Spain, Portugal, Netherlands (25,000 joining the SS to fight in the USSR, Belgium), Germany, Italy! Will give an exemption and that is Ukraine where the west of that messed up place supported the Nazis and fought for them too!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-21, 03:52:32
Oakdale your system is not as wide as other places and very much including mine..
Wide? :) You're bailing with a sieve…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-02-21, 13:19:52

RJ — half socialist, half fascist.

Fascism was always very socialist by American republican standards. National-Socialism (nazis) even more. The working classes under fascism had much more social welfare and benefits than they ever had and still have in the US.

The political spectrum in Europe goes from Right to Left like this:
Fascist/Nationalists - Christian Democrats - Social Democrats (what you call socialists) - Socialists - Comunists - Exteme left groups (Trotskysts, Maoists and the sort).

Anarchists and environmentalists are somehow considered outsiders of the classic political spectrum but environmentalists are getting in.



i dont understand this well.
may someone from US translate this to  ;  Normal distribution .

with valid data  input please . 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-02-21, 13:37:26
I would say Belfrager that National Socialism does as it claimed want to suggest it took the "best" out of Nationalism and Socialism but the other very obvious point is that places with a strong RC population where very easy to get a strong fascist stance.

Let's not use this thread to discuss how "my" Fascism is better than "your" Nazism.

What happens is that political discussions between Americans and Europeans seems as a lunatics talking because, for starters, both don't use the same political culture, classification and standards.
I doubt that both can understand each other and that's the foundation for a western divider that, in today's world, has necessarily cathastrophic consequences.

Is no good thing that we look to the American presidential elections as if watching some Aboriginal's ritual.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-21, 21:21:08
Well it might as well be Aboriginal because it is a childish farce!

Your own dictatorship probably lasted longer no doubt due to the fact they were wise not to get into a war like say Italy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-23, 18:21:29
Back to the 2016 Presidential election:
======
Quote
Donald Trump said he wanted to punch a protester “in the face” after the man disrupted a campaign rally in Las Vegas on Monday night.

“Here’s a guy, throwing punches, nasty as hell, screaming at everything else, when we’re talking,” Trump told the crowd, although CNN reported the man did not appear to be fighting with security officers.

“The guards are very gentle with him. He’s walking out, like, big high-fives, smiling, laughing,” Trump continued, before saying to loud cheers: “I’d like to punch him in the face, I tell ya.”


Yes, sir, that's the man I'd like to see dueling with Vlad the Impaler Putin.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-24, 02:41:28
Interesting that you are keen to slag off someone else for repeating a stance and you do exactly the same thing yourself in a regular fashion. You were part of those generations who were brained into the Cold War stuff so that the corporate military business could make it's fortune and still doing it!

Equally you slag off another country as if it was still a Red dictatorship as it doesn't suit the propaganda Cold War mentality pumped into Yanks. What makes your place look even more ridiculous is that Trump is well into the position of becoming the Presidential candidate for one of the 2 conlomerate money parties. Dear, oh dear many countries a lot smaller could give you a better lesson in political width. That Trump is even getting the level of support shows an inbuilt weakness and how minds are so easily controlled over there.

On the other side of the semi-dictatorship, Clinton is deeply part of the political/money control that passes for democracy. But even she is not getting massive wins is she but being breathed on by a senator who is following a political agenda that is frowned on by the land of the free and home of the brave. How in heavens a nation can show so much support for Trump is beyond the simple answr of ridicule but illustrate a greater weakness of system. I really do feel very sorry for the decent over the water because they cannot give a proper answer to multitudes who follows head-bangers by the million and only illustrates how faulty the whole damn system is. It is neither a wide political system at all (no doubt why so many especially the young) support Sanders because they are so sick of what is meant to be a principled way of doing things. Even the damn bit of paper from the Revolution days is constantly fought over.

My one desperate hope is that following the White House carnival that there will be some definitive and stable aftermath of what Senator Sanders has created because it is what America actually needs and the young have got frustration in their teeth. Clinton is going to make no damn difference to the norm of creating in your face situations in the world, maintaining hundreds of bases for the emotional keech called "security" and keeping the imperialistic and military control of the world.

One lasat wee bit of advice to the propaganda subtly stuffed into American minds by the coroporate media control. Don't try anything too physical with places like China and Russia for example as you won't win. You don't want another S. Vietnam farce. Hhhm, maybe worth a look at and the young will force a second and more promising Revolution!  :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-24, 06:51:31
Howie, is your contention truly that Stupid + Stupid + Stupid + Stupid + Stupid = Smart? What else could your "wide" democracy comments mean? :)
Only by appropriately limiting the government's sphere can "democracy" function and maintain a free society. We tried (…and mostly succeeded) to do that; but it takes work, when the numbers become so large… We are struggling. But our struggle is mostly to keep from following GB and most of Europe into senescence…

That's why a principled, consistent conservative constitutionalist is needed in the presidency. And why anything less is so problematical: Our nation was founded and flourished upon principles; and these are being eroded…have been being so for generations.
I'd rather not see the cynicism and ennui of your side of the Atlantic become commonplace over here!
Can you blame me?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-24, 07:21:45
That's why a principled, consistent conservative constitutionalist is needed in the presidency.
But your Republicans are none of those things. Their constitutional principles go right out the window, except for perhaps the Second Amendment. They're unprincipled reactionaries appealing to the lowest common denominator and fail to address the real problems of poverty, substandard healthcare that requires ER visits at the taxpayers' expense instead of a routine doctor's office visit, etc. Is Flint really the only city with third-worldish water "issues" thanks to GOP cost cutting measures. The GOP seems too concerned that a Christian baker somewhere might have to bake a cake for a same-sex couple (although one admitted to baking a cake for an adulterous marriage :rolleyes: ) and inventing other threats to "religious liberty" than addressing the real challenges our country faces. 

But once again, we have poor choices for president. There's the loud mouth Trump, who promises idiotic things such a wall between the US and Mexico. He also admitted to trolling when things got dull, so we don't actually know where he stands on much and how much of what he says he means. I also heard a theory that he'll get his ass handed to him on Super Tuesday but I guess we'll see - South Carolina is hardly representative of mainstream America. Sanders does mean what he says, but his proposals stand a snowball's chance in hell of making it through congress. Cruz is another GOPer that will try to force his brand of Christianity down the country's throat and evidently doesn't know the constitution doesn't allow this and neither do his supporters. Hillary is another neocon on foreign policy and basically a 1990's - early 2000's Republican except for her support of LGBT issues. Rubio is just another bland establishment Republican. So once again, we're left with a choice of the lesser of two evils.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-24, 08:07:44
Cruz is another GOPer that will try to force his brand of Christianity down the country's throat and evidently doesn't know the constitution doesn't allow this and neither do his supporters.
As usual, your bias clouds your judgement… Cruz has -based upon his understanding of the constitution- no way to force "his brand of Christianity" upon anyone; he knows it, and calmly accepts it.
Oh? Did you mean that the constitution says potential moms can kill their potential kids — and that's what the Democrat Party "stands for"? And because Cruz is opposed to that he's a "meanie"?
I think all you really have to say is that you disagree with some of Cruz's policy positions (…and, unfortunately, most of his principles). I understand: You want what you want!
But —seriously!— most of your disagreements with Cruz don't matter at all, to most voters! (I know, you think you're "special"! And so you are… You're for you! That's all you know and all you care about.
And your party is much the same…)

Oh, I suppose that if someone doesn't come right out and say "Gay is good!" then they've transgressed? :)  That is your one issue, isn't it?
You'd consign them to the Gulag or asylum — because you're a fascist, at heart! If only you had the power!

Sure, this is a rant — with not too much support… But I trust you to provide it! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-24, 08:18:39
Oh? Did you mean that the constitution says potential moms can kill their potential kids — and that's what the Democrat Party "stands for"? And because Cruz is opposed to that he's a "meanie"?

I see you're getting drunk again. This isn't good for your liver, ya know.
That is your one issue, isn't it?
You'd consign them to the Gulag or asylum — because you're a fascist, at heart! If only you had the power!

I take it back. You must be shitfaced already.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-24, 09:31:28
Your view of the "political landscape" is what it is, Sang: No other opinion matters, because you're right! And anyone who disagrees must be suppressed…
"Green energy" isn't just sensible and profitable: It must be supported by the government! And older technologies must be — punished!
Same-sex marriage isn't just to be allowed: All must be made to say it's A-OK! (Or they'll be punished!) Universal (i.e., single payer) health care must be instituted, because — well, only the government can do such things! And -if it turns out that it can't- well, that just means that  the forces of evil have won another round… (Because anyone who disagrees with you must be evil, or stupid! You're a Trump sort-a guy yourself! Only, not so successful. :) )

It's true that I'm drunk. I'd say something similar to what Winston Churchill said to Lady Ashton when they bumped into each other in the cloakroom after a party:
She said, "Winston, you're drunk!" He replied, after recognizing her, "Madam, you're ugly! In the morning, I shall be sober…"

Do you "fight" for the right of guys to go into girl's bathrooms…? Or are you not that far gone? :)

What -I'd ask you- are your problems with Ted Cruz, as a potential president? (Let's hope you can do better than Trump, explaining your misgivings! But will you even try? :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-25, 04:01:52
Although people in the real world outside look at Trump, shake their heads and cannot beive that a system can have such the more concern is the amount of influence and support he IS getting. I know, I know the inteloigent observors including here will say "nah, he won't get in the White House" one rally seen 8,000 turning up and even if he lost an occasional place in this long walk the general drift is he is going to be out in front of the Republican race.

On the other side all the rubbish from that Clinton mouth about not being part of the establishment and getting flooded with corporate money makes her a hypocrite. Those in the Democrats camp who are championing the would-be great leader suitably ignore the fact that she is no Joan of Arc and that the gaps although she may win the gaps in the votes at present between her and Sanders are very close.

Looking from the outside this process that America has is a long drawn out and groaning procedure and they should just do what other countries do and simply have a damn election without all this hoo-haa. I am sure that many thinking people would have sympathies with that one. On a lesser note and as I pointed out that if Clinton corporate mouth wins it will not make a bit of difference to the large numers of people struggling on salaries that er not going anywhere the legions of un-insured and poor it will just be business as usual.

The puzzling thing for the lookers in across the world cannot understand why someone like Trump can draw in large parts of the population with the stuff he pumps out.  It is one think the opponents groaning at the man but how do you explain to the outside world that there are such large numbers of the citizenry who see him as great? Indeed it is an embarrassment for the thinking in the country but the hard fact that he is so high up amongst so many is disappointing and appalling. It is just unfortunate that the political system is as it is for the vasy mahority of the decent people it is a problem for them.  :-[
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-25, 04:14:10
Let me get this straight: You're all for democracy but opposed to a populist? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-02-25, 11:48:32
 i think they are not an ellitist, aristocrat , nor pluctocrat .

they are just take the parts in the democracy  , and do the easiest job  to do .

insulting

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-02-25, 17:36:31

Although people in the real world outside look at Trump, shake their heads and cannot beive that a system can have such the more concern is the amount of influence and support he IS getting. I know, I know the inteloigent observors including here will say "nah, he won't get in the White House" one rally seen 8,000 turning up and even if he lost an occasional place in this long walk the general drift is he is going to be out in front of the Republican race.

On the other side all the rubbish from that Clinton mouth about not being part of the establishment and getting flooded with corporate money makes her a hypocrite. Those in the Democrats camp who are championing the would-be great leader suitably ignore the fact that she is no Joan of Arc and that the gaps although she may win the gaps in the votes at present between her and Sanders are very close.

Looking from the outside this process that America has is a long drawn out and groaning procedure and they should just do what other countries do and simply have a damn election without all this hoo-haa. I am sure that many thinking people would have sympathies with that one. On a lesser note and as I pointed out that if Clinton corporate mouth wins it will not make a bit of difference to the large numers of people struggling on salaries that er not going anywhere the legions of un-insured and poor it will just be business as usual.

The puzzling thing for the lookers in across the world cannot understand why someone like Trump can draw in large parts of the population with the stuff he pumps out.  It is one think the opponents groaning at the man but how do you explain to the outside world that there are such large numbers of the citizenry who see him as great? Indeed it is an embarrassment for the thinking in the country but the hard fact that he is so high up amongst so many is disappointing and appalling. It is just unfortunate that the political system is as it is for the vasy mahority of the decent people it is a problem for them.  :-[

Here are your answers old chap: http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/dear-trump-fan-so-you-want-someone-to-tell-it-like-it-is-ok-here-you-go/ (http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/dear-trump-fan-so-you-want-someone-to-tell-it-like-it-is-ok-here-you-go/)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-26, 02:34:56
My dear educated (well Yankee style, oops). The tragedy is that there are very large numbers of people who ARE supporting Trump and it is a head-shaking sigh from the shocked world. How can so many people in a country be so taken on with the man?? As for Clinton she is a waste of space and time and will as I foretell do little to sort the salary marking time the numbers of poor and homeless to the point of being a crying shame. There are far too many people of the trump corner and that is not only a very sad matter but a national disaster.

What is a very telling and refreshing and eyebrow raising thing is the Sanders corner over there where the rightist mindset thinks it is the b-all and end all. That he gets so much young support on radical issues is a surprise to the wider and more wider political experience of the outside world. Knowing the way things go over there it is a matter of an interesting change that some of Clinto's win situation is not massive but narrow. At least he has started something over there and it would be good if that continued and a basis of a challenge to the corporates who run the Democrats and Republicans. You don't really have a "wide democracy" and many people are starting to relaise it more.

Maybe by the time the young mature we might see an improved nation, wider democracy and a better deal for the people who having been brought up to be loyal are wondering where things went wrong. You need a second revolution and by the people this time not the early corporates who created the first one.  Even the would-be historical heroes are a farce. George Washington a man who was a slave owner yakking about principles and that smart alex of a stone statue in DC, Lincoln who was a two-faced liar. All the guff about freedoms, democracy and the negatives about the hard done to Southern States and in private parties saying he didn't want Negroes to have full rights and politician advancement. Hhhm. Shows that having conned the people for so long it is no surprise that full democracy has been tainted. Well done Sanders.  :happy:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-26, 06:27:31
Maybe Sanders will emigrate…! Do you want him? :)

RJ, I do believe you could have become an RT reporter. (They have copy editors who know how to write grammatical English…) Your views are what should be expected, given your "wide" experience!
Again, I ask you: Why do you hate the U.S. so much? What did we ever do to you?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-26, 18:03:44
Here are your answers old chap: http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/dear-trump-fan-so-you-want-someone-to-tell-it-like-it-is-ok-here-you-go/ (http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/dear-trump-fan-so-you-want-someone-to-tell-it-like-it-is-ok-here-you-go/)

I never thought I'd have so much agreement with an article from the Blaze. What he neglected to discuss is how many of Trump's supporters are virulent racists, how is reportedly is the all the rage at Stormfront, how Neo-Nazi groups and KKK members (including a new story about a former Grand Wizard) endorse him. The mainstream media seems to miss that as well. When your man is endorsed by the hate groups, a non-racist should probably take a step back and reflect.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-02-26, 18:38:48
Why do you hate the U.S. so much?

Such feelings are most likely from a lack of maturity bred from ignorance. Expressed outside civility they pander to a need for primitive emotional justification. And one really has to take a narrow view of precedents to manufacture such precedence. Without any real knowledge for the nature of what they despise attacks are often aimed at superficial traits reflecting the insecurities of the accuser and are apart from any understanding of consequences or causality.

Of course I'm either describing racism or rj howie. There's no way it could describe both... Right?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-26, 20:28:48
Insecurities and hate from moi? Both Oakdale and ensbb3 unfortunately betray the in-depth and unfortunate national emotional kindergarten mindset. You lot boast about everything and even your Presients do about being the greatest country on Earth.That includes both the corporate parties, Democrat and Republican. Yet for all the guff, chest touching and constant flag waving your history of boasting is heavily compromised by the factual on poverty, lack of democracy, interfering in personal privacy and such by a myriad of secret service organisations that show how emotional and shaky you are. At the same time I have never said I hate the people full stop even thought there are millions of juveniles when it comes to politics and would-be leaders of which Trump is the latest. For a country that boasts of so damn much whilst contradicting the would-be principles on rights, blacks, political control by the corporates, red indian persecution, police widespread brutality, war starting, etc and the blatant hypocrisy of even so-called national heroes like Washington and that Lincoln is so obvious. You just cannot face the factual truth and never have either on Opera or here. Instead you try to distract.

Time after time the would-be ex-colonist wonder brains totally ignore the in the face contradictions in your history and of today. The sheer hypocrisy is ignored. And the added silly stuff about RT when one has watched the media and television news over there gradually having been taken over by the corporates who would have got medals from Goebells if he was still alive.  Mind you I can almost understand the attempts by the 2 flag wavers to ignore the hard factual truth that their system is a complete contradiction of the written principles. It is the way that Americans are brought up and brained from youth. Rows of flags outside government buildings, in the classroom and all super nationalist not just patriotic. This would not be so bad if the way the system works is something else. With so many damnable secret service agencies even that shows something about immaturity and blatant control getting away with it.

If I hated the place the way the short minded express here I would not have visited it twice. Ij basic terms that a child could take in I have said that it will not make a damn difference who is in the White House because the vast numbers of static wage people the legions of poor in tens of millions, house losing vast numbers, arrogant police, blacks treated, hundreds of military bases worldwide and so on are ignored is ignored and instead we get the damnable nonsense from these two for example who do the country no good at all.  That large numbers are leaning towards Sanders contradicts the propaganda brained. As for the usual stuff about Russia that is part of the braining and it would be a challenge to get a US President with an 80% ratio. That propaganda is because the US money barons who really run the country do not like anywhere that challenges US imperialism across the world. That they know they cannot beat the Russian President politically or militarily is a frustration hence the diatribes we get against a country that the US/West cannot control. The rest they can destabilise or find an excuse for invasion then in come the corporate string pullers.

There are millions of decent Americans who know they are stuck with the big two parties and the only slight difference in the two is a slight lesser evil approach. So snide all you like, ignore the factual truth the outside world can see and I will feel a sense of companion for the millions who love their country ut think the system stinks. No-one could have thought at one time the Soviet system would collapse or old traditional things like the Sha system in Iran and other seemingly impregnable things. The day that real and wider democracy can squirm out of the 2 corporate houses on the Hill then greater the country will be. All those bases everywhere while so many starve are homeless and rights shrivelled is head shaking. So try and be adults here as in practice you might find that difficult outside the of the house!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-02-27, 00:01:34
Pointing out every stereotypical American thing you can think of as a derogatory remark is racist.

Mostly, if you don't want people to think you are poo - stop stepping in shit. I've no problem with your country. That's easy to see with no evidence to the contrary. You're just lying to save face like the politicians you claim are such a problem.

Nothing you say is more than lazily bigoted commentary. There's no point in responding to you at all really. Well, I enjoy the rants personally. But nothing needs defense against your accusations. You just repeat the same lazy statements regardless. (Psst. you may want to avoid bringing up history. Your country doesn't do so well either.) To you every problem that has existed since the invention of government is an American only problem placing the system on the verge of collapse. So you are the distraction. You also bring up kindergarten a lot... But all you do is point fingers and tattle thinking it makes you look good somehow. So funny. Blind ignorance is what you are not what you're exposing. The US is foreign to you just as the UK is to me. I don't agree with everything in either system. Some I like from both too. When you grow up we can talk about it like adults rather than throwing insults around.    
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-02-27, 00:18:19
You speak too much rjhowie. 721 words in just one post.

Americans are entitled to be the biggest morrones in the planet. Better to be them than you...  :lol:
But you insist in the contrary.

I really don't give a fuck about this American Saga Elections.Who cares in the world about who wins the American elections? only americans.
The winner doesn't make any difference.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-27, 23:48:32
Ah but my favourite Romanist I have NOT been the only one to have stuck in large posts. And I do have to say that I know it will make no damn difference to the average and decent American whether that big mouth corporate, Clinton or the carnival showman wins. The wide poverty, violent police forces too much spent on military and destroying countries they don't like will all continue. All the millions of ex-colonists who are in a poor way will still be suffering in the land of the free and home of the brave (if you have money). Wars against people that country cannot control will continue as will the money spent on more secret agencies than any country in the world.

So I can go along with your feeling on the big-headed US of A but I will refrain from any so-so language as I don't want suspended from my Lodge membership!  :devil:

ps Even thought of a Lisbon trip one to get a ride on the hill trams me being a rail and tram fan!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-28, 05:29:57
I have to say that I know it will make no damn difference to the average and decent American whether that big mouth corporate, Clinton or the carnival showman wins. The wide poverty, violent police forces too much spent on military and destroying countries they don't like will all continue.
Perhaps you can now understand why Ted Cruz is the candidate I'd like to see win…
Nah! Probably not.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-28, 16:29:05
Cruz, the Canadian candidate, said recently, "I'm a Christian first, I'm an American second, I'm a conservative third, and I'm a Republican fourth."

What would Jesus say?

And now a report that Rubio had a mistress. Trump might have started this one.

And The Donald doesn't like him. I'm going to really enjoy the next few weeks. Super Tuesday, where are you?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-02-28, 17:53:26
Perhaps you can now understand why Ted Cruz is the candidate I'd like to see win…
Nah! Probably not.

Why would he? Cruz wouldn't do anything about those issue Howie mentioned besides make them worse.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-29, 00:16:57
Well jimbro it does have a comedy aspect and although those of outside may shake our heads and be bemused or wonder why such a system as I equally foretell little for the millions will see any great change. So on a mutual selfish note maybe we should all just be tickled by the show and enjoy the show.  :happy:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-29, 14:59:59
Trump's Famous Sayings. May they sink the SS Republican Party
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.sodahead.com%2Fpolls%2F000348787%2Fpolls_story_2123_854563_poll_xlarge.jpeg&hash=d5c9fe6c0259a55e8d7e14f1da46df26" rel="cached" data-hash="d5c9fe6c0259a55e8d7e14f1da46df26" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000348787/polls_story_2123_854563_poll_xlarge.jpeg)
=====================
1. “… don’t let the brevity of these passages prevent you from savoring the profundity of the advice you are about to receive.” ( How to Get Rich, 2004)
2. “I am a really smart guy.” (TIME, April 14, 2011)
Story Continued Below
3. “I’m intelligent. Some people would say I’m very, very, very intelligent.” ( Fortune, April 3, 2000)
4. “I know what sells and I know what people want.” ( Playboy, March 1990)
5. “I have a great relationship with the blacks. I’ve always had a great relationship with the blacks.” (Albany’s Talk 1300, April 14, 2011)
6. “I just have great respect for them, and you know they like me.” (CNN, July 23, 2015)
7. “A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well-educated white in terms of the job market. … f I were starting off today, I would love to be a well-educated black, because I believe they do have an actual advantage.” (NBC News, September 1989)
8. “Our great African American President hasn’t exactly had a positive impact on the thugs who are so happily and openly destroying Baltimore!” (Twitter, April 28, 2015)
9. “I have black guys counting my money. … I hate it. The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day.” ( USA Today, May 20, 1991)
10. “The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.” (Twitter, Nov. 6, 2012)
11. “I know the Chinese. I’ve made a lot of money with the Chinese. I understand the Chinese mind.” (Xinhua, April 2011)
12. “I did very well with Chinese people. Very well. Believe me.” (TIME, April 14, 2011)
13. “Who the fuck knows? I mean, really, who knows how much the Japs will pay for Manhattan property these days?” (TIME, January 1989)
14. “The Mexican government forces many bad people into our country. Because they’re smart. They’re smarter than our leaders.” (NBC News, July 8, 2015)
15. “Jeb Bush will not be able to negotiate against Mexico. Jeb Bush with Mexico said, ‘People, come in,’ they come in, it’s an act of love, OK?” (Birch Run, Mich., Aug. 11, 2015)
16. “Jeb Bush has to like the Mexican Illegals because of his wife.” (Retweeted and then deleted on Twitter, July 4, 2015)
17. “I’ll win the Latino vote because I’ll create jobs. I’ll create jobs and the Latinos will have jobs they didn’t have.” (NBC News, July 8, 2015)
18. “I’m leading in the Hispanic vote, and I’m going to win the Hispanic vote. I’m also leading in the regular vote.” (Birch Run, Mich., Aug. 11, 2015)
19. “I don’t have a racist bone in my body.” (“Entertainment Tonight,” July 1, 2015)
20. “I cherish women. I want to help women. I’m going to be able to do things for women that no other candidate would be able to do … ” (CNN, Aug. 9, 2015)
21. “I will be so good to women.” (CNN, Aug. 10, 2015)
22. “I will be phenomenal to the women. I mean, I want to help women.” (CBS’ “Face the Nation,” Aug. 9, 2015)
23. “Oftentimes when I was sleeping with one of the top women in the world I would say to myself, thinking about me as a boy from Queens, ‘Can you believe what I am getting?’” ( Think Big: Make it Happen in Business and Life, 2008)
24. “I’ve never had any trouble in bed …” ( Surviving at the Top, 1990)
25. “I have many women that work for me.” (CBS’ “Face the Nation,” Aug. 9, 2015)
26. “She’s not giving me 100 percent. She’s giving me 84 percent, and 16 percent is going towards taking care of children.” (TIME, May 23, 2011)
27. “All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me— consciously or unconsciously. That’s to be expected.” ( How to Get Rich, 2004)
28. “I have really given a lot of women great opportunity. Unfortunately, after they are a star, the fun is over for me.” (ABC’s “Primetime Live,” March 10, 1994)
29. “When a man leaves a woman, especially when it was perceived that he has left for a piece of ass—a good one!— there are 50 percent of the population who will love the woman who was left.” ( Vanity Fair, September 1990)
30. “You know who’s one of the great beauties of the world, according to everybody? And I helped create her. Ivanka. My daughter, Ivanka. She’s 6 feet tall, she’s got the best body. She made a lot money as a model—a tremendous amount.” (The Howard Stern Show, 2003)
31. “Every guy in the country wants to go out with my daughter.” ( New York magazine, Dec. 13, 2004)
32. “… she does have a very nice figure. I’ve said if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.” (ABC’s “The View,” March 6, 2006)
33. “I’ve known Paris Hilton from the time she’s 12. Her parents are friends of mine, and, you know, the first time I saw her, she walked into the room and I said, ‘Who the hell is that?’ … Well, at 12, I wasn’t interested. I’ve never been into that. They’re sort of always stuck around that 25 category.” (The Howard Stern Show, 2003)
34. “There’s nothing I love more than women, but they’re really a lot different than portrayed. They are far worse than men, far more aggressive … ” ( The Art of the Comeback, 1997)
35. “If Hillary Clinton can’t satisfy her husband what makes her think she can satisfy America?” (Twitter, April 16, 2015)
36. Women: “You have to treat ’em like shit.” ( New York magazine, Nov. 9, 1992)
37. “What I say is what I say.” (Republican presidential debate, Aug. 6, 2015)
38. “One thing I’ve learned about the press is that they’re always hungry for a good story, and the more sensational the better. … The point is that if you are a little different, or a little outrageous, or if you do things that are bold or controversial, the press is going to write about you.” ( The Art of the Deal, 1987)
39. “Sometimes they write positively, and sometimes they write negatively. But from a pure business point of view, the benefits of being written about have far outweighed the drawbacks.” ( The Art of the Deal, 1987)
40. “Sometimes it pays to be a little wild.” ( The Art of the Deal, 1987)
41. “It’s always good to do things nice and complicated so that nobody can figure it out.” ( New Yorker, May 19, 1997)
42. “If I get my name in the paper, if people pay attention, that’s what matters.” ( Donald Trump: Master Apprentice, 2005)
43. “The press portrays me as a wild flamethrower. In actuality, I think I’m much different from that. I think I’m totally inaccurately portrayed.” ( New Yorker, May 19, 1997)
44. “You know, it really doesn’t matter what they write as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass.” ( Esquire, 1991)
45. “There are two publics as far as I’m concerned. The real public and then there’s the New York society horseshit. The real public has always liked Donald Trump. The real public feels that Donald Trump is going through Trump-bashing. When I go out now, forget about it. I’m mobbed. It’s bedlam.” (Vanity Fair, September 1990)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-29, 17:21:25
You should be his campaign manager, Jaybro! Would you do the same service for Hillary Clinton? (Note, I don't ask about Bernie Sanders — he's a non-entity, and deservedly so. :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-29, 18:13:36
Would you do the same service for Hillary Clinton?

I'm sure I could. All politicians say stupid things that come back to haunt them.

Right now I'm busy digesting a pastrami, swiss, Roquefort dressing and sauerkraut on rye, so looking for politician's stupid comments could make me ill. Give me a little time.

On second thought, do it yourself!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-29, 20:02:59
I'd like to add this gem to the "discussion."
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.favrify.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2Ftrump-rushmore.jpg&hash=d1914db72c6a0bb9348266bf304beaca" rel="cached" data-hash="d1914db72c6a0bb9348266bf304beaca" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.favrify.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/trump-rushmore.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-29, 21:56:00
(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/02/toles02292016.jpg&w=1484)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-01, 01:04:21
May they sink the SS Republican Party

Trump is just the natural evolution of the Republican Party. With all their pandering their far-right fringe, someone like him was inevitable. Funny thing is some Democrats are cheering for him to win the nomination because that will ensure a Democratic president and he'll drag down the GOP candidates for the other offices.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-03-01, 01:05:39

Ah but my favourite Romanist.......(rest of the post is rambling Scottish bollocks)

And so it begins; RJHowie's slow but inevitable conversion to Roman Catholicism.   :sherlock:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-01, 03:56:22
And the clown who describes me in that fashion is the mindset that yakked about a long sub,missionby me. Maybe in fairness he might say the same about jimbro's long bit above. Nah he is a fellow ex-colonist so that is okay!

Maybe Oakdale you should ask jimbro what he thinks really of Clinton and instead of assumptions on Sanders too. After all he is the only candidate really concerned about the ordinary folk who deserve through their loyalty a better deal. Well maybe I should re-consider that as one news report commented that so many working class people support Trump! That a country can have someone like Trump is an entertainment from those outside in normality of the land of the free and home of the brave (yawn) however if we look at the show more wisely to show a vast failing. How a civilised country can have someone like him pursuing leadership of the country with his crass and stupidness does the nation no favours at all and only shows the deep flaws in what passses for a political system. I will from time to time watch the carnival that passes for an election and smile that I am glad not over there with so many nutjobs supporting a nut.  Ah, Colonel. Clever of you to get away wioth the embarrassment of the "system."

A numbe rof years ago during my time in the Education Dept of the city I was friendly with a young nun (about 30) who was a teacher in an RC State schol (ridiculous we pay for such). She was a teacher and was planning to move somewhere else to teach. She did look smart in a neat modern gear so on a regular visit to that school (as we chatted from time to time) took her out for a lunch at a nearby posh restaurant. It was very informative and she was not that happy with much including no woman priests and the negatives she relayed to me. At the end she smiled and she said "I have never had a date with anOrangeman before." I bemused said I was the same regarding a nun.

After I had walked her back to the schol one of the 3 janiotors and I had a pssing conversation as the 3 of them were bemused by the luch. As I started to leave I said that I hope the Saturday would see no rain. One of them who had self delusions about his competition to challenge as me what was on that Saturday. Smiling I answered that the largest of the 4 Scottish provincial Battle of the Boyne Orange Pares was on and in Glasgow meaning 182 city lodges and 90 bands. Trying to sardonic he looked at his 2 associates and said "Hope you get soaked." His friends knew he wouldn't get away with it or win. Starting to leave I looked over and replied "Well John we got wet crossing the River Boyne but we still knocked you out!" The others went into a laugh mode and suggested he would never win.

Never winning? Maybe that is the problem over the water in that too many Americans are feeling the system is flawed hence the support fir trump and indeed in a different direction, Sanders. And before the house hermit come on an yaks baloney I am not a Socialist but the ideas Sanders comes away with would help tens of millions of Americans which in itself shows the flaws in the place. We will watch the comedy show but sadly for you lot it is mean to be something positive!

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-01, 04:55:51
And before the house hermit come on an yaks baloney I am not a Socialist but the ideas Sanders comes away with would help tens of millions of Americans which in itself shows the flaws in the place.
You're not a socialist, but you insist on keeping your National Health and your North Sea government-owned oil and your England-provided subsidies…
You're quite wrong about your contention, that the "ideas" of Sanders would help anybody — beyond Sanders himself and his cronies. And that's part of why I call you a socialist: As your PM Thatcher said a long time ago, the problem with socialism is that, eventually, you run out of other people's money!
Sanders has only one plan: Spend other people's money.
It's not as bad as Hitler's plan to purge Europe of Jews, by gas ovens. But it isn't very much different. He wants to punish someone — for what life is. His life has been okay; he's an activist! Having never really had to work for a living, he thinks it's either luck (or pull? Yeah, he knows about that1) or malice that allows some people to succeed and others to fail.
He's basically an animist, and Voodoo should be his religion!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-02, 01:21:54
Shows your infinite ignorance but then you don't live in a proper demcoracy of principled system. Every poltcial party here from left, centre, right supports the Welfare State and health service. That includes Conservative Party people. But there again conservative here is more routine than the militiamen attitude of what is conservatism in the ex-colony land.  They can differ on how it is run hut everyone is for it. If you are so great with your rightist corruption how come there are 40 million on food stamps and a million a year losing homes?? Try answering the very obvious contradictions instead of trying to avoid the truth.

What passes for a Presidential Election over there is ponderous often bordering on the immature and childish and a big long drag out. Trump is benefiting from actually a wide range of Republicans if we are honest not just the knuckle-draggers. That shows that a great many of your fellow countrymen  are very, very dis-satisfied with the political system and politicians and why he gets the support he does. On the Democratic side the young are flocking to Sanders too astheir way of being dis-satisfied so try facing up to these issues as there is a great feeling of not being happy with things.

Clinton will win and as I have well indicated she will make no damn difference to the great millions suffering. She IS part of the financial establishment and when I watched a replay of her tv interview a while back on the "success" of Libya and death of Gadaffi it was disgusting. "We came we saw we wio and killed." Not very professional at all.

So in both their quite different ways, Trump and Sanders show their is a deep problem in the country and the way it is run. To say that someone is automatically as socialist due to matters raised is a cover-up re too many failings for millions of decent Americans. And whoever does win the aftermath will be this. The millions of suffering in the States will continue - countries who not bow the knee will be destabilised or invaded the economy wil still drag as the corporates still pull the strings. :yuck:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-02, 03:53:15
[…] you don't live in a proper demcoracy of principled system
Than why do you bother talking so much about it? (I know, I know: It keeps you from having to see the failures and inequities at home.) We -most of us, I hope- don't want to follow in your footsteps. It's true that your left, right and center are all committed to your welfare state… You practice what Bismark preached. But if we go too far down the same road you will have no one to save you, the next time you piss somebody off…
So, would you prefer learning Chinese or Russian? :) Or even Persian? (It won't much matter. You've yet to gain proficiency with English!)

"[…] as the corporates still pull the strings." Who, do you suppose, pulls the strings in your nation? Geppetto? :) (I know: You just want to be a real boy!)

[And why oh why do you refuse to use spell-checking? Surely you know you can't do it yourself?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-03-02, 14:27:44
So it appears the Clown Triumvirate will continue on; the egotistical maniac did well last night, winning Arkansas, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, and Virginia. The lipless Canadian Domionist won Texas, Oklahoma, and Alaska. The Establishment's preferred choice, and ardent theocrat, Marco Rubio, won Minnesota. All have vowed to carry on, though all 3 have called for the others in this Clown Triumvirate to drop out. 

Meanwhile, the murdering criminal, Hillary Clinton, won all the states Trump did, but she also added Massachusetts. Comrade Bernie won Vermont, Colorado, Minnesota, and Oklahoma ( :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: at that last one, as OK is one of the most conservative states in the nation).

What a fawking shiteshow this has turned into.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-03-02, 18:52:06
It looks like Monsieur Trump is on his way to becoming the US's first emperor. A former Mexican president said recently that Mexico is "Not Paying For That F***ing Wall."

Well, Mexico is going to have to deal with Trump's Secretary of State, Sarah Palin.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuHmV5bS1YwBD96Sp5cZb8noT_3nhP7ZtIPKfUXLgGN9X7CNvkzw)
===============
I ran across the following recently, "if you type the words "Is Ted Cruz…" into Google, one of the top results at this point is "the Zodiac Killer?"

I tried it and it took 16 entries before it happened. What does it mean? Damned if I know, but it's interesting.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-02, 23:38:58
I hope Trump wins the elections. There's no other leader at the level of the North Korean. Finally a companion for the Beloved Leader.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-03, 02:25:02
It looks like Monsieur Trump is on his way to becoming the US's first emperor.
He's not an emperor. He's Mussolini, the first full-on fascist to have a shot at the presidency.

Thanks, Republicans. Good fucking job, you utter twats. You played to your base's fears so long this was all but inevitable. You told your base that Obama wasn't enforcing immigration law, despite increased deportations under the Obama administration and decreases in both legal and illegal immigration just to try to win elections. Surely you idiots could see how how that would stoke racism and xenophobia, just waiting for someone like Trump to exploit. Of course you didn't, having been mindless reactionary monkeys for this long. Now your front-runner has the support of the Klan and neo-nazi groups. What does that tell you? Knowing you folks, probably nothing at all. Being fucktards, you confuse civility with political correctness and your walnut-sized brains conflate not being politically correct with "the truth" even though your "truth" is just as likely to be racist, sexist, homophobic Neanderthal ignorance. (which doesn't mean everything that's politically correct is truthful and to censor un-PC opinions, Oakdale :rolleyes: ) What the hell is wrong with you GOP folks? You're afraid of immigrants, fear the queer - especially they'll take away your pathetic excuse for "religious liberty". That a Christian baker might have bake a cake for a same-sex wedding and as if any gay wants his wedding to be catered with pizza in the first place, really? :rolleyes:  (never mind that you pissed all over the constitution trying to take away their equal protection under the law and then used it to wipe your flat asses) ; you're afraid of Muslims like the little bitches you are, conflating groups like ISIS with actual Islam and ignoring Christian terror groups such as the Klan. You insist on calling it Islamic Terror, without understand your hillbilly base, whose wife is also his cousin, lacks the brainpower to understand Muslims are the most common victims "Islamic" terror and the long history of Christian Terror (funny how you don't insist on calling a Christian bomber of Planned Parenthood a Christian terrorist. See how you're hypocrites even on the PC issue. Wow, do you guys ever suck. )

End of incoherent, ungrammatical rant for now. The take-away is you brought Trump upon yourselves, upon all of us. Time to check the immigration requirements for Canada in case Trump wins, I guess :( Yes, Oakdale, I can write this more professionally, politely and more coherent, but the fact is I'm choosing not to at this time. Maybe that will came later.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-03, 02:38:59
As a passing unimportant point to the thread I am sick to death of the media here going on and on about the damn long drawn out farce even taking up so much of routine political progs.  Meanwhil.....

Fascist, eh?? How odd and that would mean there are millions of Fascists across America then. Guess the guard at Mussolini's impressive tomb will be celebrating. A bit over the to  put it mildly and only shows that there is a deep fault in the basic system they have in America. Due to the number of candidates popping up on the republican side has in practice only given that no-political entertainer a big push. On the other side Clinton is another smart alec. She may have great knowledge of the system how the White House operates and such but a personality? Nah. All the stuff she waffles on just LIKE Trump about how great the places is and all that nationalistic emotion with rows of the brained whooping and hollering. Both sides are as bad with all that comedy stuff and makes those involved look very immature and childish. Clinton is following in the footsteps of Obama and he was hardly very inspiring. Saying something then wavering unsure. Neither Trump or Clinton will make much of a difference with all the cries of we are great ir as she waffled "we have always been great." Oh yeah? Neither Clinton nor Trump will do much for the middle class who provide the tax money stagnate on salaries and much else. As for those lower in the working class? Forget it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-03, 06:03:29
As a passing unimportant point to the thread I am sick to death of the media here going on and on about the damn long drawn out farce even taking up so much of routine political progs.  Meanwhil.....
Maybe you could try to create a free country of your own? :)

@Sang:
He's not an emperor. He's Mussolini, the first full-on fascist to have a shot at the presidency.
No. We had FDR!
Of course, I don't particularly have a problem with you "ranting"… (I've done it a few times myself, ya know?)

Thanks, Republicans. Good fucking job, you utter twats. You played to your base's fears so long this was all but inevitable.
Can we agree, that common terms of derogation don't necessarily have what meaning a dictionary would give… I don't think you yourself consider women (or girls) necessarily cowardly… And I doubt you're unaware of the role of the Democrats in forging this circumstance.
(I'd suggest -if you want to maintain your PC creds- use "twits" instead of twats. And when you talk about "Republicans" you should know that you're also talking about Democrats… The political class is what it is; but some of us don't like it, and would like to change it. Not you, of course! :)
You're afraid of immigrants […]
I've mentioned it before, but I'll say it again: When "immigrants" don't assimilate the situation is correctly termed "invasion"… :)
The "gay" thing, I don't understand: Is it illegal to be gay? To "practice" gayness? Aren't there laws that prevent discrimination…?
Oh, but gays want to lead Boy Scout Troupes and "recruit" gay scouts… Are you really okay with this, Sang?

Your understanding of Islam is — what I'd expect, from a Sociology major.
Perhaps you'll reason better, after your head has been severed. :( I hope that doesn't happen. (Don't emigrate to any Islamic country… They're really nuts!) These people are really nuts, I think I've said. And you can read their books, and note their actions…
conflating groups like ISIS with actual Islam
What is actual Islam? Might it have some basis in the Koran and the Hadith? Or do you prefer the Muslim Brotherhood version, one for Westerners and one for Arabic speakers…
Actual Islam has a long history. You, more than I, should fear them.

Re: Christian "jihad"… But of course five or six victims of nut-cases are the equivalent of hundreds of thousands… Because you consider them -those five or six- to matter more?
They were "only" killing unborn babies…
I don't support or encourage assassination of abortionists. Not do I excuse it.
Your "morality" is obtuse. Would you explain why -for example- only black lives matter? Why gays can make others do for them what they'd not do for others? :) You've bought into the liberal/social justice meme: Pick a group, persecute them; surely, you'll make things better!

@RJ: I'm sorry your telly has been interrupted… :) Maybe your "wide"democracy can give you interesting programming…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-03-03, 19:51:43

It looks like Monsieur Trump is on his way to becoming the US's first emperor.
He's not an emperor. He's Mussolini, the first full-on fascist to have a shot at the presidency.

Thanks, Republicans. Good fucking job, you utter twats. You played to your base's fears so long this was all but inevitable. You told your base that Obama wasn't enforcing immigration law, despite increased deportations under the Obama administration and decreases in both legal and illegal immigration just to try to win elections. Surely you idiots could see how how that would stoke racism and xenophobia, just waiting for someone like Trump to exploit. Of course you didn't, having been mindless reactionary monkeys for this long. Now your front-runner has the support of the Klan and neo-nazi groups. What does that tell you? Knowing you folks, probably nothing at all. Being fucktards, you confuse civility with political correctness and your walnut-sized brains conflate not being politically correct with "the truth" even though your "truth" is just as likely to be racist, sexist, homophobic Neanderthal ignorance. (which doesn't mean everything that's politically correct is truthful and to censor un-PC opinions, Oakdale :rolleyes: ) What the hell is wrong with you GOP folks? You're afraid of immigrants, fear the queer - especially they'll take away your pathetic excuse for "religious liberty". That a Christian baker might have bake a cake for a same-sex wedding and as if any gay wants his wedding to be catered with pizza in the first place, really? :rolleyes:  (never mind that you pissed all over the constitution trying to take away their equal protection under the law and then used it to wipe your flat asses) ; you're afraid of Muslims like the little bitches you are, conflating groups like ISIS with actual Islam and ignoring Christian terror groups such as the Klan. You insist on calling it Islamic Terror, without understand your hillbilly base, whose wife is also his cousin, lacks the brainpower to understand Muslims are the most common victims "Islamic" terror and the long history of Christian Terror (funny how you don't insist on calling a Christian bomber of Planned Parenthood a Christian terrorist. See how you're hypocrites even on the PC issue. Wow, do you guys ever suck. )

End of incoherent, ungrammatical rant for now. The take-away is you brought Trump upon yourselves, upon all of us. Time to check the immigration requirements for Canada in case Trump wins, I guess :( Yes, Oakdale, I can write this more professionally, politely and more coherent, but the fact is I'm choosing not to at this time. Maybe that will came later.

Reddit's r/IWantOut is quite useful for that kind of information.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-05, 02:03:47
Your "morality" is obtuse. Would you explain why -for example- only black lives matter?

The reason you think my morality is obtuse is because you make up most of it. For example, I never made the claim in your question nor supported BLM. We'd communicate much better if you'd stop trying to invent my positions for me. How many times do I have to tell you this?

Oh yeah, and I have no interest in being PC. I was merely pointing out so many of you folks don't know the difference between not following the dictates of PC and just being a dick. Hell, I've people offended in a PC way because because stories I read to my writer's group. But what is PC. It seems that many who claim to deplore PC are just offended as liberals (if not more so) when they're own beliefs are challenged. The Republican base in the past several election cyles demanded ideological purity of the candidates. Is this not a form a PC and censorship of the Right? Both sides political spectrum engage in it. That's why I claim neither side and get to offend both in very conceivable way :yes:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-05, 03:50:05
A writer who routinely confuses, misspells and omits words…? Doesn't that make you an incompetent? :)

You do know what any conservative or Republican would hear -from a great number of corners- had he used the phrase "so many of you folks"  would have been. But you don't see why.
(Hm. Modern education: You were taught to vilify those who are -so your professors said- your ideological enemies. And you have the further encouragement, that your deviant sexuality isn't readily accepted by them.
They'd allow it, as a matter of law. But you want them to celebrate it, as a matter of… Hm. How would you finish that? :) )
I appreciate your playing the "postmodernism" word games…
We'd communicate much better if you'd stop trying to invent my positions for me.
You've never stopped doing such to me… Why should I? :)
Oh. Unilateral Disarmament!
Russia was for it, for us. Europe was -sorta- for it, for us — because they damned well knew the Soviets wouldn't. And a great many liberal Americans were for it… Why?
The Republican base in the past several election cy[c]les demanded ideological purity of the candidates. Is this not a form a PC and censorship of the Right?
You mean adherence to shared principles is despicable? :) Of course you do! :) That's your way of thinking, your way of living.
Note: There was no actual "ideological purity" either demanded or enforced… You're off in LaLa Land again! :)

You offend people because that's what you do, Sang. You don't like them, and you wish you could just make them go away.
How dare anyone disagree with you…? :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-05, 14:24:19
Note: There was no actual "ideological purity" either demanded or enforced… You're off in LaLa Land again!

:lol: :lol: :lol: You pay no attention to your party at all, do you :lol: :lol: You didn't note  that during the teaparty years, the TP turned GOP office holders that weren't pure enough? What would happen to a GOP  candidate that supported equal marriage on constitutional grounds and noted the SCOTUS decision to that affect? Come now. You're too funny. :lol: My sides hurt now :( :lol:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-05, 15:36:33
I read that American (male) presidential candidates now discusses their penis merits. Trump has assured that there's no problem with his.
Americans can sleep soundly again...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-05, 15:50:38
Yup, Rubio noted that Trump's hands were small as a way of saying is other parts are. And yet people don't think the GOP is ridiculous. They're been comparing penis sizes metaphorically for ages, so all that happened is they made it literal.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-03-05, 17:54:19
This person argues that the core of the problem is that this way of voting just isn't natural.

http://tiamat.tsotech.com/solving-the-trump-problem-is-easy
http://tiamat.tsotech.com/more-on-score-voting

Quote
First, I want to think about why we use plurality voting. In my previous blog entry, I argued that approval voting is not only superior but also more natural—it is the system I believe human beings instinctively use when forming a group consensus. To briefly reiterate, when forming a consensus, the natural process is to identify the one selection that is approved of by the most people. Axiomatic to that process is the assumption that each person may and very likely will approve of multiple options.

For lunch, I could go for a burger, pizza, or tacos. You might want tacos, pasta, or a salad. Boom—decision made, and off we go to get some tacos. Another approval voting success story. They happen every day in our lives without even realizing the process has a name.

It is unnatural to constrain each voter to a single vote of approval as plurality voting does. So why is plurality voting widely used? I wasn't able to find an answer in spot searching. So here's my theory:

Approval voting is natural for small groups. However, processing votes from even a few dozen voters can make tallying of approval cumbersome, error-prone, and time-consuming. While it's easy to keep track of 5 peoples' approval votes for a movie or restaurant, a ledger might be needed to keep track of approvals from even a nominally larger group, say 10 people.

Requiring a single vote of approval from each voter also allows for a simple sanity check at the end of tallying: count the votes. Do you have a count of votes equal to the number of people in the group? If so, you probably have a valid tally. Meanwhile, with approval voting, the number of approval votes at the end of tallying votes from N people about M choices could range from 0 to (N x M). A simple count isn't enough to sanity check your tally.

I imagine at the scale of local, state, and federal elections, the complexity burden of manually tallying approval votes would have be too time consuming and too error-prone.

The genesis of plurality voting is therefore a matter of convenience for the people responsible for manually tallying votes (and presumably those who have to double-check or recount the votes).

Of course, computers have been with us for decades now. The persistence of plurality voting in the computer era has to be questioned. Plurality voting is an anachronism from an era of manual vote tallying.


I agree that their proposed alternative would make for a better solution.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-03-05, 20:53:55
Trump may actually break the GOP. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-06, 01:38:51
Oh, good, ensbb3: Then we can be Europe or Venezuela… (Sorry to Bernie fans, we're never going to be Sweden or Denmark.)
—————————————————————————
Ted Cruz has a new "old" idea: Mutual Assured Survival (http://us.blastingnews.com/news/2016/03/ted-cruz-proposes-reviving-sdi-to-counter-north-korean-nuclear-threat-00821649.html) via a reinvigoration of Ronald Reagan's "Star Wars" program… Taco Bell's catch phrase is "Live Mas!" Democrat strategy has always been MAD, Mutual Assured Destruction… (And too many Republican administrations, also.)
It always struck me as counter-intuitive, to risk civilization on an arms war… But that's just me. Wiser, smarter minds decided that it was worth the risk: Civilization doesn't matter that much, if your side can't win.
I think we all know by now that the U.S. isn't going to start a nuclear war… But there are a few nations that likely might. (We all know who they are.) Russia and China most likely won't. Perhaps even Pakistan and Israel won't; or India and — oh, well: You get the idea.

Why should a technologically advanced country not try to neutralize the impact of nuclear weapons?

What does Trump say? Something like -I imagine- "We'll negotiate! I'm the greatest negotiator ever! I can negotiate an Eskimo into buying a refrigerator for his Igloo!"
Nah! He'll say Cruz is a war-monger. Merely fielding defensive weapons has always been -according to the Soviets- an act of aggression.
Their logic was impeccable: If you won't allow us to attack you, you must mean to attack us… :)

The situation now is a little different.
Russia knows that it can't survive a nuclear exchange. It pays for the up-keep of its nuclear arsenal, out of patriotism.
Since neither Russia nor China have an interest in nuclear conflagration, that leaves the "rogue" states: North Korea, Iran, Israel, Pakistan and India.
(I leave the UK, France and Germany out. If for no other reason: They're in the cross-hairs… :( And they're easy, little targets.)

Why should we not develop a Strategic Defense Initiative? Is suicide the only option…? :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-06, 13:08:37
It has been clear for any European observer that this elections represents the end of republicans as a credible political force, even for American standards.

The republican collapse, as a solid and sound alternative to a more social democrat oriented policy defended by the democrats, will not help to change anything regarding to bring the USA into the modern world.

In it's place, proto nazi populism conquers terrain under the astonished eyes of the international comunity and increases a growing and dangerous isolationism of the country. It's not wise to let the Trumps of this world to play with atomic boms.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-03-06, 14:21:32
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ef0Gye4dfEMlq/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-06, 20:50:00
Let's see what the NYT says...
Quote
The damage to America’s image is already done, even if Trump is never elected. Simply as a blowhard who gains headlines around the world, he reinforces caricatures of the United States and tarnishes our global reputation. He turns America into an object of derision. He is America’s Ahmadinejad.

Wish Americans that Trump could be at Ahmadinejad's level...
Quote
There’s something heartbreaking about the prospect that America’s next commander in chief may be a global joke, a man regarded in most foreign capitals as a buffoon, and a dangerous one.

Indeed...
Quote
A starting point is Trump’s remarkable ignorance about international affairs. And every time he tries to reassure, he digs the hole deeper.

...

Enough. The rest is here (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/opinion/sunday/donald-the-dangerous.html).
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-03-06, 23:15:10
The GOP has no obligation to nominate Trump despite the reaction from polled voters (thus the break). Romney has been more vocal lately.. Hmmm?

Ted Cruz has a new "old" idea

Your boy Cruz is an idiot.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-07, 01:47:50
Your boy Cruz is an idiot.
His resume says you mean something other than what you say… Care to explain?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-07, 02:05:01
Unfortunately for too many over there the political "system" is not very mature nor equally positive and if either Trump or Clinton was elected it goes beyond head shaking to a groan as neither will help millions of the people nor the world be helped. How did it get to this mess?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-07, 02:11:15
That plan at the least is idiotic. How many hundreds of billions of dollars will that cost when the weapons would miss far more than they would hit? Funny how the Republicans think we don't have money education, infrastructure, etc but we do for lasers in space :rolleyes: North Korea tests atomic bombs for propaganda purposes (and often when that's investigated, the bomb turns out to not be what Kim says it....) It's true that Russia and China are modernizing their militaries, but even more so that they have zero interest in provoking war with the West. So this is just another military industrial complex money pit.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-03-07, 02:25:57
Quote from: rj
How did it get to this mess?

"Conservative ideas"... Mostly? Such a broad term one can say it's whatever really.
Care to explain?

No. He's doing fine on his own.

Anyway the drama is now just getting good here at the halfway point. The next acts should be fun.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-08, 01:38:31
And to add to the mess the word "conservative" has been well done in too.

One of the things I have noticed about the non-corprate man was some of the media attacking Sanders for being a one issue candidate?? This actually contradicts the fact that he has spoken separately on different issues such as education, economics, foreign policy, getting involved in military imperialism and so on. We know that the clown Trump is a corporate and as I pointed out recently that Clinton took $675,000 from JP Morgan alone for speaking. Sanders has taken less than $2,000 so kind of shows who is in a very real and practical way the nearest to the ordinary and sensible people.

That someone lile Trump can do so well in a country is abominable and a head shaker. Clinton has been in her own history, involved in dodgy business practice, downright lies and a two-fac. And on top of of that presently being investigated (!). Makes you really feel for people.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-08, 03:57:00
Unfortunately for too many over there the political "system" is not very mature nor equally positive and if either Trump or Clinton was elected it goes beyond head shaking to a groan as neither will help millions of the people nor the world be helped. How did it get to this mess?
Who's your daddy…? You want government to be a surrogate parent. (Maybe you should try being one, yourself, before you appoint others to the job!)

The real point of this election is whether we, the U.S., wants to go further down the "European" road.
I'd rather not. We're already doing our damnedest to "educate" our children to the level of a Howie

Let Europe go, I say. They've the wealth needed to defend themselves; let them. Or not. Their choice…

Where -in our constitution- does it say that we have to protect the rest of the world?
If they won't protect themselves, what do they deserve…? :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-03-08, 05:11:41
I pointed out recently that Clinton took $675,000 from JP Morgan alone for speaking. Sanders has taken less than $2,000 so kind of shows who is in a very real and practical way the nearest to the ordinary and sensible people.


Indeed you have. I've actually lost count how many times at this point.

The money you seem to mention is PAC funds - Regulated, registered must this and that blah blah. I'm no expert but if you wanna know you can find out what it was spent on.. A means towards regulation anyway... Then there's super PACs - Unlimited, farce of a omg how is this a thing. Still a matter of record.

Bernie, however, isn't playing that game while raising the most money - into his personal accounts.

It's whatever on that point of yours. I do love your enthusiasm, tho.

 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-03-08, 22:00:56
It will be interesting to see how this state (MS) votes today.

/Trump, the obnoxious jackas* who is the antithesis of what so many in this state profess to be ("good, God-fearing Christians")

/Cruz, the Canadian who thumps the Bible at every given opportunity


Cruz seems the logical choice for Repubs in this state but I am guessing that somehow, Trump will win the state.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-03-08, 23:51:02
Cruz seems the logical choice for Repubs in this state but I am guessing that somehow, Trump will win the state.

I know this exact feeling. Wait until someone you previously respected calls/txt you with the 'good' news. :faint:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-09, 02:07:22
Things have really got quite sad over the whole process which is a deep pity.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-09, 03:12:59
Cruz seems the logical choice for Repubs in this state but I am guessing that somehow, Trump will win the state.

Yeah, but when has logic had anything to do with the GOP primaries? Trump voters are "angry." Misdirected and unfocused anger makes people do stupid things.

As far as Cruz goes Barry Goldwater (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/13/barry-goldwaters-war-against-the-religious-right/) warned about the religious right taking over the GOP as well.

Quote from: Barry Goldwater, aka "Mr. Conservative"
“On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God’s name on one’s behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.

I’m frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in “A,” “B,” “C” and “D.” Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?

And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of “conservatism.”


Cruz is a  Dominionist and needs to be stopped as well.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-03-09, 17:39:56

Where -in our constitution- does it say that we have to protect the rest of the world?

Yeah, US military bases around the globe safeguarding humanity.
Wonder if you really believe this shit.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-03-09, 19:27:19

Cruz seems the logical choice for Repubs in this state but I am guessing that somehow, Trump will win the state.

Yeah, but when has logic had anything to do with the GOP primaries? Trump voters are "angry." Misdirected and unfocused anger makes people do stupid things.

As far as Cruz goes Barry Goldwater (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/13/barry-goldwaters-war-against-the-religious-right/) warned about the religious right taking over the GOP as well.

Quote from: Barry Goldwater, aka "Mr. Conservative"
“On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God’s name on one’s behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.

I’m frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in “A,” “B,” “C” and “D.” Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?

And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of “conservatism.”


Cruz is a  Dominionist and needs to be stopped as well.

@ensbb: Had 4 texts of that nature.

@Sang: True enough. Logic is for heathens.
Good news is that Cruz is done for; bad news is Drumpf has locked the shite up.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-03-09, 20:11:16

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ef0Gye4dfEMlq/giphy.gif)

I'm preparing myself for that in case The Donald wins.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-10, 05:19:49
None of the Republican lot are impressive and the leading Democrat is a liar, smart alex and very much part of the corporate establishment.  The whole thing is one big embarrassment and must make thinking people sad that it has come to what is now in process. How in earth have things got this bad?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-10, 23:12:33
As it's been showed to the world, the US vegetates between rats and intelectual nulities.
It's a good thing that will allow states with decent people to declare independence.
Secession is the only way to go.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-11, 01:37:06
As it's been showed to the [ignorant of] world, the US vegetates between rats and intellectual nulities.
It's odd, you know: You sound very much like Donald Trump… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-12, 14:35:13
And with vast American numbers showing support for the idiotic Trump who makes your country look a shameful laugh how do you explain that one OakdaleFTL?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-03-12, 15:22:42

And with vast American numbers showing support for the idiotic Trump who makes your country look a shameful laugh how do you explain that one OakdaleFTL?

Absurd. Does Scotland "look a shameful laugh" because of Sturgeon and Salmond?
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.ymaservices.com%2Feditorial_service%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F000%2F047%2F259%2Foriginal%2Fthqueen.gif.gif%3F1405266851&hash=3235a2a9619a61ff722322f7c315da94" rel="cached" data-hash="3235a2a9619a61ff722322f7c315da94" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn.ymaservices.com/editorial_service/media/images/000/047/259/original/thqueen.gif.gif?1405266851)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-13, 06:28:35
And with vast American numbers showing support for the idiotic Trump who makes your country look a shameful laugh how do you explain that one OakdaleFTL?
As I've said before, we're becoming "European-ized"…
I wish it weren't so. But ignoring reality is not a good way to preclude it.
Only plain and clear language -if it makes the point- can help.

Cruz has the ability to use plain and clear language to make that point. (There: I've endorsed Ted Cruz!) If others have different objectives, I'm not surprised!
Some want us to be Sweden, some want us to be Denmark. Some want us to be North Korea or what we used to call "Red" China… Some want us to be Zimbabwe. (You'll figure it out…!) What is clear is that there's only one candidate who wants to -and will- remain faithful to the constitution, who might be elected…
And he wants us to be America.

(I am truly dismayed, that so many of my countrymen would rather we be something else…)

I'm sure many of you thought that Ronald Reagan had no chance to gain the nomination, or win the general election… (Heck, I think many of you feel betrayed by reality…!) But he won. And won again!
And the USSR collapsed… (Was that a bad thing…?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-13, 11:42:32
As I've said before, we're becoming "European-ized"…

I doubt very much you ever will.

As for the recent news about Trump's rallies to degenerate into violent confrontations, with the candidate apparently fomenting it, it seems to be one more step into the decaying level Trump brought to American politics.

Another interpretation would be that we're assisting to a campaign aimed to discredit the candidate and associate him with public disorder and violence. If so, such would be not needed, Trump does the job by himself.

How the Republican side keeps admitting Trump to destroy any credibility the party can eventually still have it's a mystery indeed.
Does the man have any political ideas? does he have even the minimum of decency and good manners to appear in public?
Lock him in a mental health facility before it's too late.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-13, 14:44:05
No it is not absurd and that comment on me by an intelligent man?!

The country constantly claims to be the greatest in the world, champion of everything to do with rights and all that stuff (Presidents do the same on the media) yet at the same time makes a mockery by the internal and external actions. Thinking one can be intelligent and then just dismiss what is in the face as a big contradiction does not help.  That someone like Trump as bluntly ludicrous and so obviously vain as well as being a clown could be President is a disaster and make the country a world laughing stock. On the other side we have Clinton who has been a liar, cheat and very corporate inclined as an alternative?? I don't create the farce and embarrass that is self-created over there and at least you have a man like Sanders who is in a better leagues of his own.

Other places of a democratic tradition would not have such pathetic similar situations and although you might be miffed on Trump (Clinton no advantage) trying to ignore what your own country produces being supported by legions is of no importance? Tut, tut, boy. Do 50 lines on the system failure! :P
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-15, 03:06:09
As for the recent news about Trump's rallies to degenerate into violent confrontations, with the candidate apparently fomenting it, it seems to be one more step into the decaying level Trump brought to American politics.

At least Trump only has a plurality and not a majority. What's happening at Trump rallies is more representative of what's become of the Republican party of election cycle after election cycle of appealing to the lowest common denominator and playing to their base's fears and prejudices. The party of Lincoln, which not only freed the slaves but modernized the country in general with industrialization, railroads, etc is long dead. Lincoln himself is turning over in his grave as his party turns into its equally useless predecessor, the Whigs.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-15, 08:56:52
Quote
My previous view of Trump was as a kind of vaccine. The Republican Party relies on the covert mobilization of racial resentment and nationalism. Trump, as I saw it, was bringing into the open that which had been intentionally submerged. It seemed like a containable dose of disease, too small to take over its host, but large enough to set off a counter-reaction of healthy blood cells. But the outbreak of violence this weekend suggests the disease may be spreading far wider than I believed, and infecting healthy elements of the body politic.
I remain convinced that Trump cannot win the presidency. But what I failed to account for was the possibility that his authoritarian style could degrade American politics even in defeat. There is a whiff in the air of the notion that the election will be settled in the streets -- a poisonous idea that is unsafe in even the smallest doses.
(source (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/trump-poses-unprecedented-threat-to-democracy.html?utm_source=jolt&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Jolt03142016&utm_term=Jolt))
This is quintessential Democrat Party thinking… The Oops! factor is built-in; they can't help themselves! :)
[…] What's happening at Trump rallies is more representative of what's become of the Republican party of election cycle after election cycle of appealing to the lowest common denominator and playing to their base's fears and prejudices.[…]
So, MoveOn.Org, BlackLivesMatter, and Bernie Sanders "Sandernistas" had no part…? Who, then, disrupted the venue…? Reaganites? :)
Who are the lawless groups, Sang? The folk who wanted to hear The Donald speak, or the folk who resorted to violence to prevent him from doing so…?

I'm probably as appalled as you are, at Trump's popularity — and chances to become the Republican nominee… (More so, I think. But I won't bother to explain why, to the likes of you.) We do all reap what we sow.

You're stuck with Clinton or Sanders… How's that make you feel? (Schadenfreude is the term that comes to mind! :) I do sort-of enjoy it!) What I don't understand, is why you won't support a principled constitutionalist like Ted Cruz…
Sure: His dad is a nut-case Christian. He himself proclaims to be a Christian. But — he's a constitutionalist! And, on the basis of a long history, a man of his word. As president, he would uphold the constitution, I think.
Do you think otherwise? (Or do you fear that he would…? :( )

What do you think should be the direction, for our country?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-15, 09:54:47
or the folk who resorted to violence to prevent him from doing so…?

Or the Trump supporters who resorted to violence at other rallies, or Trump himself who promised to pay the legal fees of supporters who resorted to violence? I said a long time ago that the Tea Party would "small government" us straight into a dictatorship and now we're staring down having a full on fascist (not an epithet but a statement of fact) becoming president. How many of his supporters are the same ones that were at TP rallies? I saw this coming years ago; the only thing I didn't know was the name of the man who would transition us to that form of government.
He himself proclaims to be a Christian. But — he's a constitutionalist

I question this on the issue of separation of church and state. Some Republicans claim this doesn't even exist. I'll need to be shown his not among their number. In recent years; we've had "constitutionalists" show they pick and choose what parts of constitution they like; just as we've had Republican "libertarians" trying to protect and even expand the rule of government. So experience tells me to disbelieve a Republican when he claims to be either of those by default until he shows otherwise. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-15, 16:44:49
What do you think should be the direction, for our country?

Truly smaller government, unlike what the GOP hypocrites. Less surveillance, reduction in military spending. History tells us that having bases all over the world and spending this much on military is an unsustainable economic burden that makes enemies.

Actual constitutionalism - none of this "we believe in the constitution until it offends our 'sincerely held beliefs' (even as we ignore the rest the of the Bible) " crap faux constitutionalists offer. This means more than simply equal marriage. It tells me the GOPers are only willing to uphold the constitution up to the point where it becomes inconvenient. How else do they plan on breaking the highest law of this land?     
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-15, 18:37:59
Spot on.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-15, 19:14:36
You're on solid intellectual ground, there, Sang: Howie agrees with you! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-16, 05:06:27
It should be Trump and Cruz… But Kaisitch wants to be another Perot, a third candidate who gives the Democrats the majority. Does he think that will endear him to fellow Republicans?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-16, 05:18:29
The GOP is on intellectual quicksand. That's the case not only with producing candidates like Trump, but along the lines of the "full me once..." saying. Pretty much every single time they expand the military industrial complex, which the last decent Republican; Eisenhower warned us about along with the deficit. Cut taxes for the rich (again) and increase the military and the deficit balloons. Who would have thought it besides those that can add and subtract? Oh yeah, the military is a huge part of the government.

They promise to reduce entitlements. The payments to individuals is not going to decrease, due to the aging baby boomer population needing healthcare, etc. That leaves reducing overhead and administrative costs as the only means to control costs. Where are the Republican ideas for doing this? *crickets*

That's just the bringing. As I said, quicksand. All they have left is being "angry." Tell me, are people at their most rational when they're angry and lack a constructive way to channel their feelings?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-16, 06:11:15
I've finally figured it out, Sang: You're a Howie clone… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-16, 07:38:23
I see you're unable to address any of my criticisms of the GOP.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-16, 07:55:17
You don't have criticisms of the GOP, Sang… You have tics and twitches!
You know nothing about conservatism, and admit to nothing that you can't help but know about progressivism  or liberalism or Democratic Party "codes" of any other stripe!
But you want what you want! (That's your political philosophy…)

You have criticisms of the GOP? Well, boy-o, I do too!
Yours amount to: They're not liberal Democrats…! Mine are a little more nuanced.

So: Who are you going to vote for, Bernie or Hillary? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-16, 09:47:42
No,  I notice what actually happens when they come to power. This is every single time. Put them in Congress and they act like kindergartners, shutting down the government and lowering the country's credit rating if they don't get what they want. These children need to go to reform school. BTW, I probably know more about conservatism than you, having come from a true conservative family and having lived in conservative parts of the country. The brand of conservatism that taken over the GOP isn't small government at all. It's descended from the old "dixiecrats" that defected to the Republican party as result of civil rights granted to African Americans. Having lived in their heartland, I can tell you that those folks are socially conservative but are big government authoritarian, despite claims otherwise. To them, freedom means the right to discriminate and screw everybody else's constitutional rights.

You might read American Thinker and similar sites that gush about small government, but that's not what happens when they get elected and that authoritarian streak takes over. You lived in Massachusetts and California, but I lived in deep Red country, so perhaps you haven't seen what happens when the new "dixiecrats" with an R by their name take over a state, but I have.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-16, 22:14:23
I've also lived in Texas and Colorado… And traveled through a great many other states.

So, have you not decided who you'd vote for yet?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-17, 15:51:12
Colorado isn't right-wing anymore. I lived there for a while. Texas, it depends on where you're at. The point it the mind bogles when people think they're voting for a "libertarian" or even a small government person in these candidates. Even their stated polices indicate otherwise. Deport all illegal immigrants. Granted they shouldn't be here in the first place, what what kind of intelligence and surveillance apparatus would need to constructed to track down 11 million people and how long before it turns on legal citizens? In what way is this small government? Then, of course, we need to expand the NSA even as the Republican lead government becomes far more of threat to freedom than al Qaeda and ISIL ever was. Oh that's right. Republicans bring "freedom" because they promise to allow discrimination against queers :rolleyes:

I probably won't be voting for anybody, but against fascist Trump or dominionist Cruz.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-18, 02:41:52
Colorado isn't right-wing anymore.
I suppose you can be excused from knowing much about the '70s…

So: You'd rather have an avowed socialist or a master practitioner of kleptocracy than Cruz, because you fear him being a Christian?
He's a constitutionalist — something I'd expect you to have little understanding of!

(By the way: If you think "allowing" a "Christian" baker to refuse to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding is discrimination, you're one of the most intolerant people I've ever talked to… :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-18, 12:39:33
It is to a degree fairly obvious that there are large numbers of people fed up with the Beltway mindset. Mind you there is always an issue in any capital of course just a bit more in tr
the stablishment and corporate influence. Trump gets somewhere due to that I dare say but the stuff we get is that because he is not a regular politician that is why he is doing so well. Well maybe top a degree but it is however not a very good thing at all the way he acts and all those large groups of people acting like children at rallies. Very immature. Mind you it is the same on the Democrat side and neither Trump nor Clinton are very great. Clinton miight well have political experience but she is a waste of time. Lies, intrigue and all that style she puts on pointing to people and putting on smiles, etc.

Clinton will no doubt win and the global imperialism will continue the keeping up of confrontation with Russia, the tens of millions of people in the country in poverty and so on. When Obama won for the Democrats we were to expect big changes but didn't. He was sometimes unsure the economy didn't progress, the wrong base was still in Cuba, sent out more drones than Bush and killed more too, etc, etc. Many in all honesty do want to see change but will not get it with either Clinton or Trump and what they will get is the usual routine. Sanders was a unique change and maybe in the future a younger man may take up the mantle for a new direction becaue I feel for Americans who love their country and that they are not getting an answer and at this election will see that negative continue.

Damn shame.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: johnogaziechi on 2016-03-18, 13:04:00

As I've said before, we're becoming "European-ized"…

I doubt very much you ever will.

As for the recent news about Trump's rallies to degenerate into violent confrontations, with the candidate apparently fomenting it, it seems to be one more step into the decaying level Trump brought to American politics.

Another interpretation would be that we're assisting to a campaign aimed to discredit the candidate and associate him with public disorder and violence. If so, such would be not needed, Trump does the job by himself.

How the Republican side keeps admitting Trump to destroy any credibility the party can eventually still have it's a mystery indeed.
Does the man have any political ideas? does he have even the minimum of decency and good manners to appear in public?
Lock him in a mental health facility before it's too late.

:cheers: I'd drink to that last sentence....
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: johnogaziechi on 2016-03-18, 13:23:09

Many in all honesty do want to see change but will not get it with either Clinton or Trump and what they will get is the usual routine.

with Clinton maybe but not with Trump...if he wins, which is a strange thought to entertain, he surely would change America...maybe send the country 50 years back.
Title: 50 years back?
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-03-18, 17:50:39
:sst: Please, anybody send my country 50 years back!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-19, 00:54:52
I suppose you can be excused from knowing much about the '70s…

So: You'd rather have an avowed socialist or a master practitioner of kleptocracy than Cruz, because you fear him being a Christian?
He's a constitutionalist — something I'd expect you to have little understanding of!

Still unable to answer that the GOP at best has an incoherent message and has rendered itself incapable of being a party of small government, I see. Perhaps this another factor that paved the way for the rise of Trump. Further, I see you've yet to check Cruz's particular branch of Christianity, Seven Mountain Dominionism, to see that it's incompatible with the constitutionalism and is rather scary stuff with a goal of imposing laws based on the sect's heretical teachings on everyone else. Some have gone so far as to call it a cult.

I know Clinton and Sanders are not small government either. At least they don't lie about that.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-19, 01:01:58
with Clinton maybe but not with Trump...if he wins, which is a strange thought to entertain, he surely would change America...maybe send the country 50 years back.

You are correct, sir. Hillary will be more the same. Trump will be far worse. At one point, Trump said he'll change his rhetoric for the general election, but he doesn't realize that he's gone past the point of no return.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-19, 01:56:54
Sang, Trump never appealed to you, nor could; nor to me, either. But he stands a good chance of gaining the nomination… Which, unfortunately, will likely "elect" Clinton.
(Without Ross Perot, we wouldn't have had Bill… :) But you knew that, right?)

The Republican Party has an incoherent "message"? And can't be the party of small government? (Compared to what?)
I'll grant, that the Democrat Party has a coherent message: Let's all be good little socialists! Later, we'll see where we can go… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-03-19, 09:01:44
The next presidential election in Russia will take place on or before March 2018.
Anybody want to predict the outcome?


(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F01108%2Fvlad_putin_1108585c.jpg&hash=68b60aff916d761e75cfaafb5b9f4d92" rel="cached" data-hash="68b60aff916d761e75cfaafb5b9f4d92" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01108/vlad_putin_1108585c.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-19, 11:23:45

:sst: Please, anybody send my country 50 years back!

Immigrate Barulheira, there's no hope for "Order and Progress" when governed by thieves. Thieves in the Government, robbers in the opposition - the delight of democracy...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-03-19, 11:52:17

The next presidential election in Russia will take place on or before March 2018.
Anybody want to predict the outcome?

One thing is for sure. It won't be neither Billary nor the Donald. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-19, 16:58:59
Cold War style answer jimbro but then you were brought up in that stuff! With the system that exists in the ex-colonies it only parodies the problem you lot have sniding at someone else.  :hat:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-03-20, 09:17:47

:cheers: I'd drink to that last sentence....

And to long time, no see :cheers:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-20, 15:42:12
News on a smaller race. Sharon Angle is trying to take Harry Reid's spot in the US Senate. She already proved that either she's retarded or thinks the voters are in her last two attempts by blaming the decrease in Nevada home values in 2010 on Reid and claiming Frankford, Texas (a town that hasn't existed since circa 1975) is under Sharia Law and not the constitution. See, Oakdale, I tend to vote Democratic because not because they're supposedly liberal but because Republicans are either stupid or think the rest of us are. Those were among her more intelligent statements.

And she seems to support Trump for president and would like a Trump/Cruz ticket.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: johnogaziechi on 2016-03-20, 16:57:12


:cheers: I'd drink to that last sentence....

And to long time, no see :cheers:
yeah! Been a while jax...d&d seems a bit less diverse as it used to be...are there any active african here?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-03-20, 17:05:53
Dunno, are you active? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-03-20, 17:50:35
are there any active african here?

One that I know of.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/583530828891824128/2rqBeKth_400x400.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-20, 21:07:25
Makes him highly individual.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: johnogaziechi on 2016-03-20, 23:50:14

are there any active african here?

One that I know of.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/583530828891824128/2rqBeKth_400x400.jpg)
I meant others apart from me!!! Jezzz!! Did u have go all the way Jim?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: johnogaziechi on 2016-03-20, 23:57:53

Dunno, are you active? :)
dunno, my newbee tag doesn't suggest much 'activity'  :doh:..
However, for sake of clarification lemme rephrase...  Any African in the house who isn't johnogaziechi.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-03-21, 11:58:33
Obama counts?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-03-21, 12:02:41
Did u have go all the way Jim?

That's what I do, John!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-03-21, 12:03:21
Obama counts?

On his fingers.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-03-23, 02:43:50
So much truth, in such a small package!

Joe Dan's got it   'balls on dead center'   with this one!  (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smiliesuche.de%2Fsmileys%2Fgrinsende%2Fgrinsende-smilies-0189.gif&hash=261645026b0808e4a82036d7c8f9c3fe" rel="cached" data-hash="261645026b0808e4a82036d7c8f9c3fe" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.smiliesuche.de/smileys/grinsende/grinsende-smilies-0189.gif)


[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvzXfc7ereg[/video]  


(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/biglaugh023.gif)     ......... it seems the more they try to pile on Trump, the stronger he gets?!     (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/reading.gif)

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-23, 03:20:29
Again, though, when people are pissed (ie, "outraged) do they make the best choices?


......... it seems the more they try to pile on Trump, the stronger he gets?!

You don't understand. Hard core Democrats WANT Trump to be the GOP nominee. Real Clear Politics (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html)polls show Trump being crushed by Clinton. If you notice, he's not getting stronger, at least in the general election, with the newer polls showing him falling further behind her. By election day, we're looking at a landslide. The only question will be how dark of an aura will he cast on the Republican candidates for other offices.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-03-24, 16:45:36

dunno, my newbee tag doesn't suggest much 'activity'  :doh:..
However, for sake of clarification lemme rephrase...  Any African in the house who isn't johnogaziechi.

I'm not sure really. None of the regulars I don't think. Oh yeah, and we're just pulling your finger. ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-24, 19:19:45
It is one thing a man who is not a routine politician in principle getting involved but Trump is ignorant, embarrassing and makes the system look even worse than it practically is.  What an example and portrayal that gives to the world. Clinton will win and although steeped in politics has been a liar, cheat and such. I will tell you this that her election will mean damn all to the millions of poor, homeless of downtrodden inside the country and continue to be sticking the nosei n everywhere else ion the world. A more deep rooted change is needed but the might of the financial controllers makes that a dream - sadly.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-25, 04:20:16
It is one thing a man who is not a routine politician in principle getting involved but Trump is ignorant, embarrassing and makes the system look even worse than it practically is.
Sort-of like RJHowie running –twice! Huh?
Still, that was only for local office — something that I applaud! But, sir, you were rejected twice by your neighbors… Did you ever ask them why? :) No. Of course, not.

But of course you mean -when talking about Trump- that he might actually win! Well, it's a remote possibility… I'd hope not, too. But my reasons are different from yours:
I don't want to see my country follow the same path as yours.
So, if the Democrat candidate is H.R. Clinton — I'd vote for Trump! Better an idiot than a rabble-rousing socialist crypto-capitalist like Clinton. Kleptocracy is not what I'd vote for…

Of course, most Dems are assuming -that if Trump wins– both the Senate and the House fall back under Dem control… Because Democrats assume voters are stupid! Perhaps they are. Still, the Democratic "operatives" are stupider… They will do what they do; they know no other way.
What happens, if neither the Senate or the House changes hands!?
Good for the country, I'd say. Should Trump become president, we'd really need a Republican House and Senate — to constrain his "proclivities"… :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-25, 14:12:50
socialist crypto-capitalist like Clinton. Kleptocracy is not what I'd vote for…

Well... the only way of making sense together in a phrase the words socialist, crypto-capitalist and kleptocracy it's by calling the lady a sort of industrial Robin Hood... strange politics the American ones.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-25, 14:49:04
Good for the country, I'd say. Should Trump become president, we'd really need a Republican House and Senate — to constrain his "proclivities"…

Wow is that ever deluded. If Trump wins and a Republican Congress will be kissing his fascist ass.  If Congress does remain in Republican hands, I'm thinking there is one hope, depending on his fraud charges play out. We need to find out if a president can be impeached for crimes committed before entering office.

Article 2, section 4 of the constitution says:

Quote
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors
You'll note it doesn't specify when the crimes have to committed :left: The failure of the plan is that a party afraid of Mexicans, Muslims, Chinese, some red guy with horn, gays, etc doesn't have the balls since they're afraid of everything.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-03-25, 15:05:05
Christie says no more ‘blank checks’ for nearly bankrupt Atlantic City (http://nypost.com/2016/03/24/christie-says-no-more-blank-checks-for-nearly-bankrupt-atlantic-city/)

Atlantic City is a stronghold of Trump's business, where he (Trump) regularly and safely goes bankrupt. If now the city goes bankrupt, it will destroy Trump's reputation and he will not become the president. Of course, he has no reputation to begin with, so the fact that he got as far as he got in the presidential race is not a sign of health of U.S. politics.

As always, the question in U.S. presidential elections is not who is the best, but who is the least insane.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-26, 06:37:31
What an odd parallel Oakdale saying that you do not want to see your country going the same way as mine??

We have a far wider parliament and also a good selection of parties to put into it whereas you have 2 giant ones controlled by the Wall Street mindset. Trump has got where he has because so many people are fed up with the system you have but the downside is that the election is making your nation a bit of a world laughing stock I am afraid. Someone like Trump would get nowhere here and if he ends up the candidate for one party I have to tell you that such a step would be a disgrace. Your system is far too limited with the big two and the unlimited money and the "people" are being fooled.

I still think that the con merchant, Clinton will win and she will make little difference to the economy, military games and controlling the increasing deficit. The poor will see no change either and if you were not a citizen of the place you would be shocked and gob-smacked at the behaviour of Trump and how ludicrous he makes the country look. It is not democracy it is bordering on political farce and the people deserve much better. A clown and a woman con merchant so how sad is that?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-26, 08:24:55
We have a far wider parliament and also a good selection of parties to put into it […]
And that's a virtue? :) Tell me again how you feel about Salmond (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Salmond)!
A barrel full of monkeys kind of fun, i'n'it? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-26, 14:50:01
Don't you understand yet? Only America has screwballs, and Scotland certainly doesn't :left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-27, 19:33:30
It IS a far wider parliamentary system and it includes a far wider aspect of represntation than your Wall Street controlled mechanism. So don't try to avoid the truth . Outside of two controlled parties you don't have a damn proper system hence the embarrassment of Trump and the two-faced Clinton you lot are stuck with. Face the truth boy. :P
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-28, 12:18:26
 Winds of revolution blows from Alaska and Hawai... :lol:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-28, 15:58:16
Didn't Bernie win Washington state too? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-28, 17:04:40
Yes he did but I was kepting it secret to use later... kind of an unstopable wave...  :lol:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-28, 23:51:24
 :yes:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-04-01, 10:33:36
Yes he did but I was kepting it secret to use later... kind of an unstopable wave...

Maybe he should be referred to as Tsunami Sanders.

Compare him to Wrestlemania Trump and you have what makes America great.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic0.thesportsterimages.com%2Fcdn%2F864%2F603%2F90%2Fcw%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F11%2Fshaves-head.jpg&hash=aedf7ca2f32303dfc5e8b74b22f87c9d" rel="cached" data-hash="aedf7ca2f32303dfc5e8b74b22f87c9d" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://static0.thesportsterimages.com/cdn/864/603/90/cw/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/shaves-head.jpg)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F06%2FTrump-clown.jpg&hash=1d60cbea87cbfb81d539e40ec647a888" rel="cached" data-hash="1d60cbea87cbfb81d539e40ec647a888" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Trump-clown.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-03, 00:43:42
As I said earlier on this election it is a wide unsatisfactory attitude with the system that has brought Trump and sanders to the public eye. It would not be so bad of a non-politician running but Trump is an utter nutcase and he is an embarrassment for the country to the world. Sanders however is doing well because he is more genuine and is touching the deep despair people have for what is a political machine. How can a modern and advanced nation have someone like him in the front line?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-03, 01:21:45
Sanders however is doing well because he is more genuine and is touching the deep despair people have for what is a political machine.
You do know, RJ, that Sanders has worked for government and held elective office for 35 years?! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-04, 07:55:12
What a negative answer that one is for goodness sake. At the same time there have been scores holding office for years who are in the control of the money barons so you prove nothing. He is outside of the limited thing that is meant to be a wide democracy but isn't.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-04-06, 22:29:03
It's ironic to me that the most hated man in the US Senate (also a foreigner who is lipless) is who is now preferred as the next (R) candidate for the presidency.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-07, 00:06:35
Come on laddie -don't be a big feartie.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-07, 01:00:33
It's ironic to me that the most hated man in the US Senate (also a foreigner who is lipless) is who is now preferred as the next (R) candidate for the presidency.
You've done well, Grasshopper! You've learned to parrot your professors — without ever giving a thought to anything yourself…
You'll probably vote for Trump.

(BTW: You don't know what the term "ironic" means… :) )

Would you accept, explain or reject The Donald's campaign statement following his loss in Wisconsin?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-04-07, 01:34:58

It's ironic to me that the most hated man in the US Senate (also a foreigner who is lipless) is who is now preferred as the next (R) candidate for the presidency.
You've done well, Grasshopper! You've learned to parrot your professors — without ever giving a thought to anything yourself…
You'll probably vote for Trump.

(BTW: You don't know what the term "ironic" means… :) )

Would you accept, explain or reject The Donald's campaign statement following his loss in Wisconsin?

Wrong on all counts, and I will probably vote 3rd party once again. #NeverTrump  #NeverCruz  #NeverHillary
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-07, 06:50:44
Hallelujah. A good political assessment going third party. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-07, 06:55:37
Being "besides the point" is sort-of a Howie kind-a thing, i'n't? :) "Wider democracy," and all that rot.

(You weren't old enough to vote for Wallace, were you? Or Perot?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-04-07, 18:14:28

Being "besides the point" is sort-of a Howie kind-a thing, i'n't? :) "Wider democracy," and all that rot.

(You weren't old enough to vote for Wallace, were you? Or Perot?)

Nope. 2008 was the first time I was old enough to vote in the Presidential elections. Registered to vote in 2006.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-07, 23:14:53
I will probably vote 3rd party once again. #NeverTrump  #NeverCruz  #NeverHillary
As in #NeverMatters… :) Just another bloc to be used to the advantage of the Democrats or Republicans.
It's much the same in GB, but the "unwashed" never seem to catch on! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-07, 23:48:54
It's much the same in GB, but the "unwashed" never seem to catch on!

But you forget, the UK has "wider Democracy" and it isn't like every Prime Minister isn't since 1858 has been Labour or Conserve. Oh wait, they actually have been (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom).

Mississippi will automatically go to the Republicans anyway. Nevada is actually a competitive state. Those southern states would vote for a clone of Hitler himself (with the same ideology) as long as he had an R by his name.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-08, 01:06:09
Typical limited knowledge there and totally ignoring that our parliament has not just two corporate parties like the restricted ex-colonies.

Nationally in the Commons are Conservative, Labour, Liberal democrat and now the UKIP (which won the Euro Elections here). Then regional parties in Scotland, Wales, Ulster and all have MP's. In addition the standing committees of parliament have all of these parties represented on them. The government before the present one was a coalition of 2 main parties so we are of a wider democracy. You lot are stuck with the big 2 machines and no-ine else can get a look in. No political democracy comparison and that is why people over the pond are so frustrated that Trump a global laughing stock gets where he does.

It wouldn't be so bad if you had something to go on but you don't. For the tens of millions in the US it doesn't matter a damn whether Trump or Clinton gets the White House it will still be a restricted system.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-08, 01:47:51
I'm looking at a list of British MPs (http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/\) even know. While I do see some smaller parties (SNP, Democratic Unionist Party, ) I do see mostly Labour and Conservative. Now if you look at the US Senate by party division (http://www.senate.gov/history/partydiv.htm) You'll note that it's not necessarily all Democrats and Republicans. True, they do dominate, just like Labour and Conservative in the UK. However, we have two independents even now and we've had smaller parties represented in the past. So while my knowledge of UK politics is indeed limited, so is your's of American politics.

What's your plan now? To blather on about "wider democracy" , whatever that's even supposed to mean. More range of opinions? If that's the case, you should know that two Republicans or Democrats don't necessarily agree and vote on opposite sides of issues. Even bigger shock for you, a Democrat and Republican might even vote on the side of a bill, but for different reasons (or even the same reason! :yikes: ) , and it happens frequently. I guess I'll need to wait for you to get out of the hospital for the heart attack caused that last statement for your response.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-09, 01:10:05
Almost pontless.

The Commons is still far wider in hard practice and as I stated the parties are all represented on Standing Committees just as you lot have something vaguely similar.But the whole point is there is still a far wider involvement in Westminster by MORE parties than 2 corporate controlled once like the Democrats and Republicans.So a far wider political base. The Conservative Party is in power yet the upper house is controlled by Labour and Liberal Democrat parties as a majority of peers when checking government bills, etc. You are still behind no matter what. It is also why so many support Trump and Sanders. The weekly Prime Minister question time is used by every political corner. So there is a conspicuous difference in the wideness whether formally or otherwise and a couple of so-called independent mindson the Hill  are well, nothing.
ps. Conservative & Unionist, Labour, SNP (Scotland), Plaid Cymru (Wales), Liberal Democrats, UKIP, Ulster Unionists (Ulster) Democratic Unionists (Ulster), Social & Democratic Labour (in Ulster) all have MP's and on the committees.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-09, 05:30:23
The weekly Prime Minister question time is used by every political corner. So there is a conspicuous difference in the wideness whether formally or otherwise and a couple of so-called independent minds on the Hill are well, nothing.
You refer to the circus called "question time"? Everything that matters gets done behind closed doors, and usually -I'd guess- not in Parliament's offices… :)

You are easily bamboozled, RJ!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-09, 15:15:34
t is also why so many support Trump and Sanders.

What about the so many that supported Scottish secession? Why was that?  Did they perhaps feel unrepresented in the British Parliament, that perhaps London was too distant both geographically and in response to Scottish issues even on such a "wee island?" C'mon, Howie. Let's be honest. Our senators and representatives run this country like a bunch of poo-flinging monkeys. But recent events, especially in Scotland, say that your MPs and Lords are alienating your electorate with incompetence and disconnect from the real issues facing your people.  But you're not able to see that because to do so will be tantamount to an admission, especially to your America bashing self, that the UK as the same issues as the US.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-09, 15:44:41
Say. Howie, how many years was Alex Salmond First Minister again? It  seems odd that he ran unopposed in such a wide democracy, huh? :confused:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-04-09, 21:51:03

Almost pontless. ..................
It is also why so many support Trump and Sanders.

You are mentioning Trump and Sanders in the same breath and it's not for the first time. Why? What do they both have in common?
Assuming that you'd live over the pond, whom would you give your precious vote?
Since personalities like Genghis Khan, Chiang Kai-shek or the Iron Lady are not at disposal (God bless them), who would be your favorite?
Would Tony Blair or David Cameron be fine? Unfortunately neither of them can run for presidency in the ex colonies.
So which of those who can, would be your favorite?
Hillary? Ted Cruz (someone else's darling on these forums)? Cthulhu?
Or someone I've missed?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-13, 08:05:51
How drifting is that stuff from raccoon? If it does not fit into the limited idea of democracy across the pond then it is a failing??

That rather limited knowledge or understanding of a wider democracy is rather sad. I fully illustrated that we have national parties AND regional parties (Scotland, Wales, Ulster) .They are fully included in the parliamentary standing committees. The government before the present one was a shared one between 2 parties (impossible in the ex-colonies). I also pointed out that the Lords has more representatives from Labour and Liberal Democrats than the present government has!  The upper house in wide terms does have a wide experience and in fact has retired Trade Union leaders and people of no one political corner which gives wide opportunity.

The attempt to belittle a far wider remit representation here does little to correct the deep flaw in the USA system. People over there have for many  got fed up with the system. he wide suffering, restricted financial growth and frustration have seen the rise of both trump and sanders. Not that both are the same of course but have attracted vast numbers who are frustrated by the corporate carve-up on the Hill. In hard terms it has to be added that someone like Trump doing so well is an embarrassment but shows the flaw reaction very much in the face.  The more thinking Americans can understand why so many flock to Trump bandwagon but is also shows in another way a very obvious lack of depth by those on the bandwagon. Even allowing for the many in the States who are intelligent and thinking people the immaturity of this election also shows the flaws.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-13, 08:40:41
RJ, you do know that Trump talks much the same as you do…? :)

Part of the reason people in the U.S. are miffed is that we seem to be becoming British! They don't like that trend.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-13, 23:22:50
What utter tripe. It is too much to the stark point for you so up you come with something where you insult your own intelligence. People ARE fed up.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-14, 01:37:58
"People" are always fed up, Howie. That statement means nothing with being back by numbers. What are the reasons Trump's voters backed him by percentage and where's the same data for Sander's voters? Meanwhile, you just had just shy of 45% of Scots voting to leave the UK which indicates all is no well there either. At least we don't have a Salmond convincing that many people that the US should effectively be dissolved.

Since your cranium is about the same density of Plutonium and just as prone to overheating, I'll simply point that it's imbecilic to try compare width of the democracies. First of all we don't even have a proper definition. You're silly enough to claim the sheer number of political parties, when most of them have 8 seats or less out of 1,463. How many of those small parties are redundant with the Conservative and Labour parties (meaning, of course, they tend to have same positions and vote along the same lines as the larger ones?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-04-14, 02:45:02
The People are saying:
Up Yours Washington D.C.


(https://i.imgsafe.org/5c939b1.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-14, 06:44:26
Racoon, I think we agree — on Howie's confusion.
And I like Trump's reaction to Colorado's distribution of it's delegates: Their rules were set in August; how was he to know what he should have done to win them? :) He's a "rock star" after all!
Cruz has a good ground-game… I think he's likely to win the nomination. (I certainly hope he'll win the general election, too.) But I'd tell you something -just between us: I don't think you need to fear a Cruz administration.
He knows what is within the perview of the presidency…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-04-14, 08:48:29
......Cruz has a good ground-game… I think he's likely to win the nomination. (I certainly hope he'll win the general election, too.) But I'd tell you something -just between us: I don't think you need to fear a Cruz administration.
He knows what is within the perview of the presidency…

@OakdaleFTL    Well the delegate count has narrowed a bit, & it's looking more & more like an "Open Convention" may be in the cards.

Either way, we can't count "What does it matter" out.

She's got the juice & connections...a real machine, & plenty of Arab cash too!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-14, 08:49:23
Arab cash?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-04-14, 08:57:17
Arab cash?

@Frenzie   

Quote from:     http://mcaf.ee/orh8tj
Four oil-rich Arab nations, all with histories of philanthropy to United Nations and Middle Eastern causes, have donated vastly more money to the Clinton Foundation than they have to most other large private charities involved in the kinds of global work championed by the Clinton family.

Since 2001, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates gave as much as $40 million to the Clinton Foundation. In contrast, six similar non-governmental global charities collected no money from those same four Middle Eastern countries; the International Committee of the Red Cross was given $6.82 million. Since 2001, these global foundations have raised a staggering $40 billion to $50 billion to fund their humanitarian work.

The existence of foreign donors to the Clinton Foundation has been well-documented in the media. What hasn’t been revealed, however, is the disparity in donations by these four nations, all of which have been criticized by the State Department over the years for a spate of issues ranging from the mistreatment of women to stoking ethnic discord in the flammable Middle East.

Moreover, the level of Arab support for the Clinton Foundation, which occurred during the time Hillary Clinton was a U.S. senator, was seeking the Democratic nomination for president against Barack Obama, and was serving as secretary of state, fuels questions about the reasons for the donations. Were they solely to support the foundation’s causes, or were they designed to curry favor with the ex-president and with a potential future president?

Mideast nations favor contributions to Clinton Foundation

Between 2001 and 2014 Middle Eastern countries gave $18 million to $50 million to the Clinton Foundation, accounting for 1.4 to 4 percent of contributions over the period. In contrast, the same nations gave about $6.82 million to the International Committee for the Red Cross, accounting for less than 1 percent of the $11.2 billion in contributions the organization received.
Saudi Arabia
$10 million to $25 million
Qatar
$1 million to $5 million
Oman
$1 million to $5 million
UAE
$1 million to $5 million

Read everything here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article24782695.html#storylink=cpy



Need I say more......follow the money, & you'll eventually be into Hillary's purse.


More about Clinton Cash:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJngR1uZ1WE[/VIDEO]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-14, 13:42:45
And how much business dealings over there does your man Trump have? What favors does he owe Prince Alwaleed? What of his ties to the mob (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/02/ted-cruz/yes-donald-trump-has-been-linked-mob/)? Anybody can play this GOP conspiracy game.
More about Clinton Cash:
That makes the accusation that the Clintons work put them at the nexus of global money, influence and power. That could just as easily describe Trump. I'm not here to praise Hillary nor to bury her, just noting Trump is not an honorable man.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-04-15, 01:43:43
.....Rump is not an honorable man.

May be, but a rancid turd would be more acceptable than that crusty old lyin' snatch & her partner in crime Slickoooh anyday. Bernie is just more of the same.....increase turnout & voters through freebies on our dime. More government dependency, & less legit workers to foster the debt.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-15, 03:24:23
I’m sure you know by know that anybody that actually wants to be president shouldn’t have the job. The whole Washington establishment are crooks. Trump manages to be both a crook and literal fascist. Yes, I really mean it. Some of his policies border on actual fascism and the support he’s getting on Stormfront and other fascist/racist sites is disturbing. When you have neo-nazis and Klan members supporting your guy, you might want to take a step back and reconsider your position. I’d support Cruz, despite my concerns that he’s a theocrat, just to keep Trump from being president. Make no mistake, I’m not throwing around epithets. Bush was supposedly a fascist, then Obama . Neither had any basis in reality. But Trump’s xenophobic positions combined with his authoritarianism make him smell like the real deal, even if he’s not self-aware of that fact. I told you near the begining of the Tea Party thread that you folks will “small government” your way straight into a dictatorship. By supporting Trump, you’re helping make that come true.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-15, 03:37:07
Glad to see you coming around to the Cruz "camp"… But I've always felt his fidelity to the constitution precludes any tendency he might have towards theocracy.
But you will admit, the Trump candidacy is great fun! :) He's even less serious than Wallace was! And at least Perot had charts!

Still, I don't think he's a fascist: He's a wanna-be fascist! (He's not smart enough…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-15, 09:54:28
You really are very arrogant, ignorant, full of yourself, raccoon. Slag me off as you wish as you would not face me in person. We were talking about systems and comparisons but you lower thongs to the point of ignorance.  Some of the ignorant labels you shove on me could be very much stuck on one of your Presidential candidates. The man in qauestgion is a laughing stock of your country and would get nowhere in a normal democracy in Europe or here in the Western world. You choose to ignore the real obvious because you are a mental low life who thinks he is something.

Can I say Oakdale that the man you are leaning towards for the election seems to have some problems on the Hill on the personal popularity stakes.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-15, 15:44:57
Still, I don't think he's a fascist: He's a wanna-be fascist! (He's not smart enough...)
Here's a Slate (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/interrogation/2016/02/is_donald_trump_a_fascist_an_expert_on_fascism_weighs_in.html) you might enjoy. It discusses what the echoes of fascism in Trump as well the differences between past European fascists though an interview was fascism expert Robert Paxton. I found the article too short myself.

Salon (http://www.salon.com/2016/03/11/trumps_not_hitler_hes_mussolini_how_gop_anti_intellectualism_created_a_modern_fascist_movement_in_america/) has an answer and makes it's own points on the matter. and wraps it up by saying:
Quote
In conclusion, the Fascism analogy is admittedly not a perfect fit.  When it comes to ideologies, no analogy is.  This is because ideologies change through time.  The religious anti-Semitism of the Middle Ages was very different from its racial reincarnation during the nineteenth century, the latter of which was picked up by the Nazis (although religious anti-Semitism still remained a part of it).  The anti-imperial, liberal, nationalism of the first half of the nineteenth century was very different from its more virulent, expansionist, and repressive kind at the beginning of the twentieth.  Stalin’s Bolshevism was much scarier and arbitrarily deadlier than Lenin’s.  In other words, just like the overuse of historical analogies should not make us too quick to embrace them, a search for a perfect ideological replica of interwar Fascism should not blind us to its ugly re-emergence in 2016.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-15, 15:52:02
Slag me off as you wish as you would not face me in person.
Crying umbrage because you can't answer my questions, than?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-04-15, 19:45:42
Now this from Wisconsin.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usnews.com%2Fdims4%2FUSNEWS%2Fc9c2964%2F2147483647%2Fthumbnail%2F766x511%253E%2Fformat%2Fpng%2Fquality%2F85%2F%3Furl%3D%252Fcmsmedia%252F35%252F65%252Fd71c311f4a4893a405ae08a2ec6d%252F20160414edwas-a.tif&hash=1adbca6c061ec35d84fe9e97de63e263" rel="cached" data-hash="1adbca6c061ec35d84fe9e97de63e263" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/c9c2964/2147483647/thumbnail/766x511%3E/format/png/quality/85/?url=%2Fcmsmedia%2F35%2F65%2Fd71c311f4a4893a405ae08a2ec6d%2F20160414edwas-a.tif)

While looking for the derivation of a family name for my wife, I ran into the following:
"But back to modern life. It is a truth universally acknowledged that having children inevitably demands an increases one’s flatulent vocab. For us, apart from toot, we’ve talked a lot more about parping and trumping than we’d ever anticipated pre-children. And so I’m shocked to find out that according to my edition of the Historical Thesaurus of the Oxford English Dictionary (oh yes!), the word trump, meaning fart, was in usage from 1425-1798. I’d like to make a correction, please. It is alive and well in our house at least."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-15, 23:53:39
Listen raccy, I have indicated quite simply the vast difference in political systems and that ours IS wider but you choose to be one of those red neck mentalities that do your country no good at all. Instead you choose to ignore what was a straightforward thing into going berserk. Your problem not mine. It does not matter a damn which of the two corporate parties takes the white house as the tens of millions on food stamps will remain the same, big numbers losing their homes and salaried people under strain. If you did not go round the globe warring and at the same time look after your own people properly then there would be no room for what is emphasised.

You can scoff all you like about the smaller parties here but they in actuality get not only votes but MP's in parliament and as I also pointed out the regional players are as much part of the stadning committees as the bigger parties. Indeed there are chairmen who are not in the governing party!  Trump is an embarrassment to decent and sensible Americans and in a completely different corner the amount of support Sanders gets especially from the young shows there are problems. Trouble is that if you are in a party outside the big 2 who are corporate barons you haven't a snowball chance in the hot place. Wide democracy? Nope.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-04-16, 00:36:56
Slag me off as you wish
You might want to clarify that for those who aren't aware of y'alls bastardized version of the English language. :angel:
It could be.......misinterpreted.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-16, 01:07:59
Howie, you choose to ignore even the vast differences between three remaining Republican candidates and between Hillary and Bernie. In fact, Sanders is not really a Democrat. He's a democratic socialist. There are also arguments Trump isn't really a Republican (without going so far as to explore the possibility that he's a fascist.) Those two have simply latched themselves on to the Republican and Democratic political machinery even as the party leaders impotently protested.

What difference does it make if we have 246 Republicans in the House of Representatives, but 50 of them quarrel with the rest on occasion while agreeing with them most of the time instead of calling themselves by a different party brand? Likewise for the Democrats, with different numbers of course. A "Dixiecratic" Republican from the Bible belt is often a very different animal from an individualistic business minded one from Nevada. Our Senators and Representatives represent their districts' values and concerns , so there's no reason for a Nevada Party, California Party, etc.

But I doubt any of this will sink in, since your favorite hobby is bashing America. Oh and why did 45 percent of Scots voted to leave the UK even though London didn't pass any unfair laws against Scotland? All is not well when almost half the people vote like that without a precipitating event. Are you able to answer or not. I suspect not.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-04-16, 07:56:19
... Hillary and Bernie. In fact, Sanders is not really a Democrat. He's a democratic socialist.
So while Hillary represents the 'genuine' democrat, Sanders is kind  of a variation.
Be aware that I'm not arguing here. I'm just curious how Americans perceive different political nuances. :)
Hence my questions:
- Has the term "socialist" a negative connotation for most Americans? In case it has, what are the negative associations?
- What makes a real Democrat compared to a subvariety like Sanders?

Oh and why did 45 percent of Scots voted to leave the UK even though London didn't pass any unfair laws against Scotland? All is not well when almost half the people vote like that without a precipitating event. Are you able to answer or not.
Let me give a try even so I'm not RJ, neither would RJ agree with my point...
Would Americans prefer to live under Canadian, Australian or British law? All three mentioned countries are considered democracies.
So what could go wrong?  :devil:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-16, 15:31:03
Be aware that I'm not arguing here. I'm just curious how Americans perceive different political nuances.
She's a highly connected, establishment Democrat. Bernie is a self-proclaimed Democratic Socialist running on the Democratic ticket and is in the Senate as an independent. So he's not really a Democrat by his own description. Anyone can run for office as Democrat or Republican, regardless of how much or little they agree with DNC or RNC (Democratic/Republican National Committees), as long as they meet the requirements outlined in the Constitution and of course, it's up to the voters to accept or reject them. This one of the many things Howie fails to understand.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-04-16, 15:48:02
... Hillary and Bernie. In fact, Sanders is not really a Democrat. He's a democratic socialist.
So while Hillary represents the 'genuine' democrat, Sanders is kind  of a variation.
Be aware that I'm not arguing here. I'm just curious how Americans perceive different political nuances. :)
Hence my questions:
- Has the term "socialist" a negative connotation for most Americans? In case it has, what are the negative associations?
- What makes a real Democrat compared to a subvariety like Sanders?

Oh and why did 45 percent of Scots voted to leave the UK even though London didn't pass any unfair laws against Scotland? All is not well when almost half the people vote like that without a precipitating event. Are you able to answer or not.
Let me give a try even so I'm not RJ, neither would RJ agree with my point...
Would Americans prefer to live under Canadian, Australian or British law? All three mentioned countries are considered democracies.
So what could go wrong?  :devil:

1. "Socialist" has been a smear term in the US since the McCarthy ere of the 50's. When Republicans fall into a tight spot, the go-to political move is to assert (insert politician here) is a gotdamned Socialist!" The grand irony of this, is that the same Repubs will assert in the same breath that the US is a Christian country, but vehemently deny that Jesus was a socialist. If things weren't affected so much by such jackassery, it might be somewhat humorous.

2. Hillary is representative of the post-Reagan Democrats. In other words, she and her husband, as well as Obama, all whore themselves out to big businesses and swear to serve their interests (Obama will be a God in Big Pharmacy, forever more), but in public and speeches, deny such. Have a look at the debates so far. Bernie will assert such, but in much nicer language, and Hillary will deny it. She'll say, "I'm going to rein in the big banks!", all the while receiving huge donations to her PACs and Super PACs.

Bernie is more representative of the old-school, Franklin D. Roosevelt school of Democrats.

3. I would prefer to import the law allowing the open carrying of beer in the streets, nationally. New Orleans and Vegas are the only places I know of in that allow this. Also, I would greatly prefer a NHS-style system regarding healthcare, rather than the current abortion we currently have.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-04-16, 17:44:10
While American English is a more proper form of English in the sense that it has diverged less from earlier English, the political vocabulary is an exception. Left/right of centre might vary as different countries have different political midpoints (and individuals opinions), but there would be little confusion on the terms if a Norwegian, Portuguese and Australian were to discuss politics. Not so an American and virtually anyone else. Liberal, conservative, socialist, republican, red, blue, communist, progressive, and the rest of those labels in particular.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-04-17, 00:09:50
.......the open carrying of beer in the streets, nationally. New Orleans and Vegas are the only places I know of in that allow this........


Quote from:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_open_container_laws#Places_where_legal

Open container restrictions are not always rigorously enforced, and open containers may in fact be legally permitted in nominally private events which are open to the public. This is especially true in downtown districts and during holidays and sporting events; see tailgate party.
Places where legal

There are a few public places in the United States where open containers are always permitted in the street:

    The city of Butte, Montana, prohibits open containers only between 2am and 8am. Drinking openly in the street is allowed throughout the city (and elsewhere in Montana where no local laws exist) during the other 18 hours of the day.[3] A recent attempt to pass a comprehensive open container prohibition in Butte met with widespread opposition and was dropped.[4] However, Montana state law does prohibit open containers in vehicles on a highway.[5]
    In the Power & Light District of Kansas City, Missouri, a special Missouri state law[6] preempts Kansas City's ordinary local law against open containers[7] and allows the possession and consumption of alcoholic beverages on the street in open plastic containers.[8] Although Missouri has no statewide open container law, the Power & Light District remains the only part of Kansas City where open containers are allowed actually on the street, and throughout the rest of Kansas City, open containers remain expressly prohibited.
    In unincorporated Clark County, Nevada (including the Las Vegas Strip) the laws allow the possession and consumption on the street of alcoholic beverages except within parking lots or, if the alcohol was purchased in a closed container, on the premises of or within 1000 feet of the store from which it was purchased.[9] It is also illegal to possess a glass or aluminum beverage container on specially designated streets during special events, such as the Strip on New Year's Eve.[10]
    The entertainment district along Beale Street in Downtown Memphis, Tennessee, is specially exempt from both Tennessee's statewide open container ban and Memphis's local open container ban, thereby permitting the open consumption of alcoholic beverages on the street.
    The city of New Orleans, Louisiana allows the possession and consumption on the street of any alcoholic beverage in an open plastic container (not in glass bottles or containers). Throughout the rest of Louisiana, however, open containers are still prohibited, despite the fact that drive-thru frozen daiquiri stands are legal.[11]
    In the Savannah Historic District of Downtown Savannah, Georgia, city law allows possession and consumption on the street of one alcoholic beverage in an open plastic container of not more than 16 ounces.[12] Because Georgia has no state public open container law, the city law governs. Throughout the rest of Savannah, however, open containers remain prohibited.
    The town of Fredericksburg, Texas allows open containers of beer or wine (no liquor) in its Main street shopping district.
    The city of Hood River, Oregon, has no open container ordinance.[13] Oregon statewide open container laws only pertain to vehicles.[14]
    The city of Erie, Pennsylvania has no open container law; consumption of alcoholic beverages is not generally prohibited in public spaces.[15]
    The village of East Aurora, New York has no open container law; consumption of alcoholic beverages is not generally prohibited in public spaces.

Something everyone needs to know!  (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FQEmwAPx.gif&hash=98f59d0e70e594077dfeb56ae6a1711c" rel="cached" data-hash="98f59d0e70e594077dfeb56ae6a1711c" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://imgur.com/QEmwAPx.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-17, 01:02:10
1. "Socialist" has been a smear term in the US since the McCarthy ere of the 50's. When Republicans fall into a tight spot, the go-to political move is to assert (insert politician here) is a gotdamned Socialist!"
Correct, but if somebody describe himself as such is it still a smear to call him that?
In unincorporated Clark County, Nevada (including the Las Vegas Strip) the laws allow the possession and consumption on the street of alcoholic beverages except within parking lots or, if the alcohol was purchased in a closed container, on the premises of or within 1000 feet of the store from which it was purchased.
Or on Fremont street, which is in downtown Las Vegas proper the cops usually won't bother you unless you're acting like a jackass. I'm not sure what the exact law is there, but unless you're being an idiot, you should be fine.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-17, 10:29:09
Correct, but if somebody describe himself as such is it still a smear to call him that?
Yes. Someone reappropriating a smear doesn't stop if from being a smear in the context in which it is a smear in the first place.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-04-17, 16:23:25
.......the open carrying of beer in the streets, nationally. New Orleans and Vegas are the only places I know of in that allow this........


Quote from:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_open_container_laws#Places_where_legal

Open container restrictions are not always rigorously enforced, and open containers may in fact be legally permitted in nominally private events which are open to the public. This is especially true in downtown districts and during holidays and sporting events; see tailgate party.
Places where legal

There are a few public places in the United States where open containers are always permitted in the street:

    The city of Butte, Montana, prohibits open containers only between 2am and 8am. Drinking openly in the street is allowed throughout the city (and elsewhere in Montana where no local laws exist) during the other 18 hours of the day.[3] A recent attempt to pass a comprehensive open container prohibition in Butte met with widespread opposition and was dropped.[4] However, Montana state law does prohibit open containers in vehicles on a highway.[5]
    In the Power & Light District of Kansas City, Missouri, a special Missouri state law[6] preempts Kansas City's ordinary local law against open containers[7] and allows the possession and consumption of alcoholic beverages on the street in open plastic containers.[8] Although Missouri has no statewide open container law, the Power & Light District remains the only part of Kansas City where open containers are allowed actually on the street, and throughout the rest of Kansas City, open containers remain expressly prohibited.
    In unincorporated Clark County, Nevada (including the Las Vegas Strip) the laws allow the possession and consumption on the street of alcoholic beverages except within parking lots or, if the alcohol was purchased in a closed container, on the premises of or within 1000 feet of the store from which it was purchased.[9] It is also illegal to possess a glass or aluminum beverage container on specially designated streets during special events, such as the Strip on New Year's Eve.[10]
    The entertainment district along Beale Street in Downtown Memphis, Tennessee, is specially exempt from both Tennessee's statewide open container ban and Memphis's local open container ban, thereby permitting the open consumption of alcoholic beverages on the street.
    The city of New Orleans, Louisiana allows the possession and consumption on the street of any alcoholic beverage in an open plastic container (not in glass bottles or containers). Throughout the rest of Louisiana, however, open containers are still prohibited, despite the fact that drive-thru frozen daiquiri stands are legal.[11]
    In the Savannah Historic District of Downtown Savannah, Georgia, city law allows possession and consumption on the street of one alcoholic beverage in an open plastic container of not more than 16 ounces.[12] Because Georgia has no state public open container law, the city law governs. Throughout the rest of Savannah, however, open containers remain prohibited.
    The town of Fredericksburg, Texas allows open containers of beer or wine (no liquor) in its Main street shopping district.
    The city of Hood River, Oregon, has no open container ordinance.[13] Oregon statewide open container laws only pertain to vehicles.[14]
    The city of Erie, Pennsylvania has no open container law; consumption of alcoholic beverages is not generally prohibited in public spaces.[15]
    The village of East Aurora, New York has no open container law; consumption of alcoholic beverages is not generally prohibited in public spaces.

Something everyone needs to know!  (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FQEmwAPx.gif&hash=98f59d0e70e594077dfeb56ae6a1711c" rel="cached" data-hash="98f59d0e70e594077dfeb56ae6a1711c" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://imgur.com/QEmwAPx.gif)
Very informative. Thanks for that!

I'd have never guess that Butte, Montana, or Savannah, Georgia, would have had those laws on the book, Savannah especially.

I try to stay away from Beale St in Memphis though, as I do actually value my life.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-04-17, 19:30:09
2. Hillary is representative of the post-Reagan Democrats. In other words, she and her husband, as well as Obama, all whore themselves out to big businesses and swear to serve their interests... Have a look at the debates so far.
I see.  It confirms at large my own sentence about the Clintons and Obama. I find it ludicrous when Obama is labeled by some as a communist. A communist whoring himself to big business. :D

BTW,

(https://theuglytruth.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/hillary-clinton1.jpg?w=620)


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-17, 23:58:41
I find it ludicrous when Obama is labeled by some as a communist.
Now some are silly enough to try to label Hillary as one (http://freedomoutpost.com/exposing-the-marxistcommunist-past-of-hillary-clinton/) :rolleyes: I know there are issues with Hillary, but being a communist is not among them. Maybe even she had a little of that ideology in college, she certainly doesn't have it now.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: string on 2016-04-18, 19:59:42
As someone from the other side of the pond, I would enjoy poking fun at all of that, but I have to admit that we have our share of political combat consisting almost entirely of using labels. So no high minded scoffing there,  Maybe somewhere policies are actually discussed rather than caricatures.

My theory, therefore, is that Trump is actually a communist because he wants to build a wall round Mexico.

There seems to be some meat in the matter of open beer bottles though. It a matter of national policy? Is Hilary espousing a policy of making it illegal not to leave toilet seats down?

What are the real issues that matter.

So far I think my dime (wouldn't  bet more than that) would be on Hillary.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-04-18, 22:29:04
As someone from the other side of the pond, I would enjoy poking fun at all of that, but I have to admit that we have our share of political combat consisting almost entirely of using labels. So no high minded scoffing there,  Maybe somewhere policies are actually discussed rather than caricatures.

My theory, therefore, is that Trump is actually a communist because he wants to build a wall round Mexico.

There seems to be some meat in the matter of open beer bottles though. It a matter of national policy? Is Hilary espousing a policy of making it illegal not to leave toilet seats down?

What are the real issues that matter.

So far I think my dime (wouldn't  bet more than that) would be on Hillary.

Really the beer issue is a state one, but being as how the 10th Amendment is more or less gone at this point, I'd hope, being as how we just about have no other choice, that it would become a national issue.

After all, @string , my state refused to acknowledge that Prohibition had been repealed in 1933 until 1966. :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-19, 03:03:26
So far I think my dime (wouldn't  bet more than that) would be on Hillary.
What, in a Hillary versus "the Donald" general election? She'll crush him like a grape. The electoral college spells a defeat for Trump. Donald will get the deeply Republican states, but Hillary will get the Democratic states and the "Purple states." Further, Trump's approval keeps failing."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-04-19, 06:39:22
My theory, therefore, is that Trump is actually a communist because he wants to build a wall round Mexico.
Very interesting theory. Following the logic, the Great Wall of China was build by communists.
Who'd have thought that the Ming Dynasty was communist? :)

Is Hilary espousing a policy of making it illegal not to leave toilet seats down?

What are the real issues that matter.
Indeed:
Hillary Clinton’s nightmare neoliberalism and American exceptionalism makes the world a dangerous place (http://www.salon.com/2016/03/20/it_is_urgent_that_shes_stopped_hillary_clintons_nightmare_neoliberalism_and_american_exceptionalism_makes_the_world_a_dangerous_place/)

So far I think my dime (wouldn't  bet more than that) would be on Hillary.
So even people from the other side of the pond can have different views on the same subject. :)
The same thing perceived as a threat by someone can be perceived as an opportunity by someone else.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-19, 10:26:15
Very interesting theory. Following the logic, the Great Wall of China was build by communists.
Who'd have thought that the Ming Dynasty was communist?  :)
I don't know about the Ming Dynasty, but a great many Republicans are communists because they are proponents of taking out of a common well (i.e. the environment) without paying for it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-04-19, 14:53:07
Trump rules.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-global-warming_us_5601d04fe4b08820d91aa753 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-global-warming_us_5601d04fe4b08820d91aa753)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-19, 17:19:05
Quote from: Trump
The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/265895292191248385

This is one of those weird things that make no sense. When you're effectively banning the cheaper, more energy-wasting Chinese products, what you've got is a protectionist measure.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-04-19, 17:51:14
... a great many Republicans are communists because they are proponents of taking out of a common well (i.e. the environment)...
You mean something like fracking? Is it a Republican monopol? I don't think so.
And don't even try to tell me that fracking is of the table. It might be for the next few years but it is still part of the future economic and geostrategic expansion strategy.
I could add the environmental devastations abroad which aren't either a Republican monopol.
Should we conclude therefore that both the Republicans and the Democrats are communists? :devil:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-04-19, 21:02:08
This is one of those weird things that make no sense. When you're effectively banning the cheaper, more energy-wasting Chinese products, what you've got is a protectionist measure.
Did you know that Canada plans to build a wall on the US/Canadian border if Trump wins? They're going to make us pay for it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-20, 09:09:20
... a great many Republicans are communists because they are proponents of taking out of a common well (i.e. the environment)...
You mean something like fracking? Is it a Republican monopol? I don't think so.
You left out the crucial part of that phrase: without paying for it. I'm not talking about the act of polluting, but about the economic mechanism behind it. In communism, as the name itself says, your resources are in a commons. You can just give and take from the commons as you please. The reason communism fails is that there is too little giving, although it can be sustained by forcing people to give through totalitarianism. The reason capitalism works better is because through the money resources cost, you're disincentivized from taking more than you really need. So far so good. Republicans and I mostly agree up to this point. But then they suddenly insist that resources like mountain tops, the air, and the oceans, should be part of the commons![1] Yet recall your history classes. What happened when Lenin took over? What happened when Mao did? Mass food shortages.

That is what will happen under the communist system these Republicans advocate, just on a planet-wide scale. Putting a resource in the commons is the surest way to eventually destroy it, because there is no such thing as market clearing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_clearing) to balance what is taken in and out of the commons.[2] The reason acid rain is largely a solved problem is because capitalism was introduced through a cap and trade system, while in the 1970s acid rain was plagued by all the issues that come with communism. The Republican rhetoric in defense of the communist commons is one of freedom, and that's true. Capitalism is regulation. Regulation against the freedom of just taking as you please. And that's how the demagogues get the Republican base on board. Introducing capitalism into the communist system of polluting is pro-regulation, and regulation is anti-freedom. Isn't regulation just such an icky word? But purely speaking capitalism is regulation against the freedom of taking as you please, and communism the lack of it.
It would have been more accurate had I written that a great many Republicans strongly support various communist policies even though they are not in fact communists.
Of course market clearing is itself a utopian fiction, but the point isn't so much to what extent market clearing is real as that it is consistent with Republican ideology, unlike communism.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-20, 15:16:30
Besides, how many examples from history do we need to show unregulated capitalism is colossal failure in both human terms and economic terms? Economists agree that 2008 was caused over-zealous deregulation of the financial sector, re-legalizing financial instruments that had been illegal for their part in causing the 1929 crash. But the axe swings both ways. Over regulation by equally clueless Democratic officials can disincentize investment and stifle economic growth. The lesson here is to abandon ideologically driven economic policy in favor of policy that can be empirically shown to work. But the Democratic and Republican bases will have none of it.

  
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-20, 22:40:31
In communism, as the name itself says, your resources are in a commons. You can just give and take from the commons as you please.
Poor Frenzie... The Comunist Party can give and take, not you.
As for the rest, Capitalism is the lack of regulation. Capitalism is just the fancie word used for the Law of the Strongest. Judge Lynch style.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-21, 00:30:51
The Federal Aviation Administration grounded Trump's plane (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/21/nyregion/donald-trumps-jet-is-grounded-by-the-faa.html). The plane's operator, which a company controlled by Trump, failed to re-register it back in February despite having been given warnings that the registration was about to expire. :lol:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-21, 04:59:08
It's "a fixed system" ya know! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-21, 05:45:12
Poor Frenzie... The Comunist Party can give and take, not you.
Pretty sure I covered that in the next sentence or two. :P

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-21, 06:20:40
There's an "academic" reading of ideologies and an actual history… Just sayin'… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-21, 07:08:22
If you raised any specific objections we could see whether I actually failed to address them and both of us might learn something in the process. Just saying'… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-04-21, 14:31:08
Just saying, "Just saying".
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-21, 21:23:59
Well, to put it mildly: Every time "communism" has been tried involving more than a few score of people, millions have died… Does that not teach you something about your academic definition? :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-21, 22:38:13
Spot on there OakdaleFTL
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-21, 22:44:12
Glad we can agree on some things, RJ… (Have you seen my post (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=99.msg54549#msg54549) in the Guns thread? :) Wouldn't you agree?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-22, 09:00:31
Well, to put it mildly: Every time "communism" has been tried involving more than a few score of people, millions have died… Does that not teach you something about your academic definition? :(
No, unfortunately it just teaches me the complete absence of any interaction with my purposefully provocatively phrased argument.

First I gave a "pure" definition of communism,[1] in the sentence quoted by Belfrager.

Quote
In communism, as the name itself says, your resources are in a commons. You can just give and take from the commons as you please.

The very next sentence read:
Quote
The reason communism fails is that there is too little giving, although it can be sustained by forcing people to give through totalitarianism (emphases added).
Your supposed objection is practically the crux of my argument.
Call it academic if you will.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-04-22, 11:27:27
In communism, as the name itself says, your resources are in a commons. You can just give and take from the commons as you please. The reason communism fails is that there is too little giving, although it can be sustained by forcing people to give through totalitarianism.
That's a very arbitrary explanation. :) I don't blame you therefore. It's probably what you left with after your study and after reading some books.
Resources in commons in a socialist aka communist country:
Let's take a forest as an example. It was in theory public property. Imagine what would have happened to somebody if he would have been caught stealing wood and telling that he is just taking his part of public property. :)
Let's take another example. All factories where considered in theory belonging to the working class. Imagine what would have happened to a worker caught stealing some goods from the factory and claiming that he is just taking his small part of the working class property.
It was not the lack of regulations why 'communism' (communism was meant to be the final stage of socialism - something that was never achieved) failed and was doomed to fail. ;)

As Sang points out, it was first of all the ideologically driven economic policy which brought 'communism' to a halt. An ideology (in this case the communist one) based on utopian assumptions.
IMO, best example for how socialism can work was Skandinavia.

Capitalism is regulation.
In other words, all people should benefit from the generated wealth.
If (de)regulations are dictated by big money and their lobby (be it in Washington or Brussels) then they become a farce.
What we finally get: the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, social tensions and a totalitarian system which takes care of all...

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-04-22, 11:30:58
Well, to put it mildly: Every time "communism" has been tried involving more than a few score of people, millions have died… Does that not teach you something about your academic definition? :(
Is "communism" the only ideology which for millions of people had to die?
Think about it. It shouldn't be so hard. Many of the wars and killings took place during your lifetime...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-22, 12:13:42
Let's take a forest as an example. It was in theory public property. Imagine what would have happened to somebody if he would have been caught stealing wood and telling that he is just taking his part of public property.  :)
Let's take another example. All factories where considered in theory belonging to the working class. Imagine what would have happened to a worker caught stealing some goods from the factory and claiming that he is just taking his small part of the working class property.
It was not the lack of regulations why 'communism' (communism was meant to be the final stage of socialism - something that was never achieved) failed and was doomed to fail.  ;)
Although you present it as a disagreement, you're simply expanding on the last sentence of what you quoted. To be clear, I wrote down the argument from a Republican point of view. I'll break it down into its components, because when everyone fails to understand what I'm saying I suppose it must be my fault.

1. Communist policies are unsustainable, except through force.
2. Many Republicans advocate certain communist policies.
3. Capitalist policies avoid the problems with communist policies, because they are largely self-regulating.

1, 2, 3 => Republicans should be consistent about advocating capitalist policies.

On the first premise, everyone seems to be in total agreement, in spite of some serious reading comprehension issues. Premise two is supposed to be the provocative one, to make you think. Yet it is premise three which is probably on the shakiest grounds.

In other words, all people should benefit from the generated wealth.
If (de)regulations are dictated by big money and their lobby (be it in Washington or Brussels) then they become a farce.
I would probably agree, but unlike with the above bit about communism this isn't in agreement with what I wrote, or at the very least it isn't a paraphrase.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-22, 21:26:05
On the first premise, everyone seems to be in total agreement, in spite of some serious reading comprehension issues. Premise two is supposed to be the provocative one, to make you think. Yet it is premise three which is probably on the shakiest grounds.
You miss what really matters, the prohibition of private property as being the communist basis.
That's the first reason of the communism failure, being contra-natura. The second one, being a system that (by the same reason) couldn't offer as much reward to effort as capitalism can do.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-23, 06:59:48
I said communism fails because there's too much taking and too little giving. The reason why this flaw manifests itself isn't relevant to my argument, only whether or not it occurs. So yes, I didn't mention it on purpose. Incidentally, is contra-natura Portuguese/Spanish for unnatural or does it have the same kind of possibly religions overtones as antinatural?

In any case, while I was trying to be provocative through using the word communism, clearly I misjudged just how provocative that would be. I merely indicated the (simplified, but not at all unusual or strange!) definition of communism I was using. Taking that, I developed the (presumably unusual) argument for how many a Republican advocates communist policies.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-04-23, 08:53:52
In any case, while I was trying to be provocative through using the word communism, clearly I misjudged just how provocative that would be.
I for one didn't find it provocative, just simply incorrect. As absurd as when Reps call some Democrats 'communists'. :)

I developed the (presumably unusual) argument for how many a Republican advocates communist policies.
A rather far fetched construction than a "presumably unusual" one.
Whether you agree or not, at least this should be cleared out by now. :)

Furthemore it's naive to think that Republicans and Democrats are advocating two different kinds of economic systems.
Best example is Hillary the (most probably) nominee of the Democrats. She is lobbying for a deregulated unleashed turbo capitalism.
The charming lady would fit perfectly as a Republican nominee if she would only exchange her party membership card.

I couldn't care less about all these if there wouldn't be an "if".
For different reasons (...), the USA has a vast influence on Europe and how things evolve here.

BTW,
do you remember G.W.Bush? He was perceived by most Germans as a harmfull idiot.
Then came Obama and most Germans were naive enough to get impressed by his rhetoric. Do you know how most Germans see Obama since?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn4.spiegel.de%2Fimages%2Fimage-985217-galleryV9-weor-985217.jpg&hash=58b83eea237df896d6fb3e457c874178" rel="cached" data-hash="58b83eea237df896d6fb3e457c874178" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-985217-galleryV9-weor-985217.jpg)

What many Germans will still have to realize is that both Bush and Obama were the exponents of the same establishment.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-23, 09:22:50
I for one didn't find it provocative, just simply incorrect. As absurd as when Reps call some Democrats 'communists'.  :)
I did sort of say that originally, mea culpa, but I think I sufficiently clarified that I was calling a very specific policy communist. Communist or not (and by the definition I used it is), it definitely isn't capitalist in lieu of any kind of market.

Furthemore it's naive to think that Republicans and Democrats are advocating two different kinds of economic systems.
I did not say that. But different sides of the same coin can still be quite different in select areas even if they're roughly the same overall.

do you remember G.W.Bush? He was perceived by most Germans as a harmfull idiot.
Then came Obama and most Germans were naive enough to get impressed by his rhetoric. Do you know how most Germans see Obama since?
I suspect most Germans still think Obama is a much better president than Bush, your personal circle of friends notwithstanding. :P
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-23, 09:33:05
[…] Hillary the (most probably) nominee of the Democrats. She is lobbying for a deregulated unleashed turbo capitalism.
Apparently, Crack Cocaine has made a major landfall in Germany… :) There's no other explanation I can think of for this statement.
How's Merkel doin"…? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-04-23, 10:59:27
I suspect most Germans still think Obama is a much better president than Bush, your personal circle of friends notwithstanding. :P
Your guesswork and my personal circle of friends are both totally irrelevant.
Besides, "a better president" to whom? After all we are talking about the US President and not (yet) a President of the world.

Fact is, the USA had more credit among Germans during the Bush era than it has now.
I'll give you just a link (http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/neue-studie-deutsche-denken-immer-schlechter-ueber-amerika-13664236.html) to a FAZ article.
The FAZ like all other big news outlets here can be confidently considered a transatlantic cornet. So you can blame the FAZ for anything except for being US critical.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-04-23, 11:19:26
The person of the year?

[…] Hillary the (most probably) nominee of the Democrats. She is lobbying for a deregulated unleashed turbo capitalism.
Apparently, Crack Cocaine has made a major landfall in Germany… :) There's no other explanation I can think of for this statement.
How's Merkel doin"…? :)

The person of the year (http://time.com/time-person-of-the-year-2015-angela-merkel/)?
(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/angela_vick.jpg)

She is doing much better than I guess Krake would like, but then he's evidently no fan of guessworkers.

Back on topic this is not an election like most others. That Clinton would be the only conservative candidate in the running was not something I had expected. Wonder if whoever becomes president this time will be reelected in 2020?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-04-23, 11:55:10
The person of the year?

(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/angela_vick.jpg)

She is doing much better than I guess Krake would like, but then he's evidently no fan of guessworkers.
No, indeed I'm not a fan neither of guesswork, nor of trolling. ;)
Person of the year?
For sure she is - abroad. And even abroad by far not everywere... Ask for instance Belfrager. :D

On a more serious note:
You probably know about her approval rates at home. :devil:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-23, 12:20:15
Your guesswork and my personal circle of friends are both totally irrelevant.
Besides, "a better president" to whom? After all we are talking about the US President and not (yet) a President of the world.
If I said I suspect Germans think Rutte is a better prime minister than Balkenende, would you also have such strange objections? :P

Fact is, the USA had more credit among Germans during the Bush era than it has now.
I'll give you just a link (http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/neue-studie-deutsche-denken-immer-schlechter-ueber-amerika-13664236.html) to a FAZ article.
So? That's the answer to a different question.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-23, 15:08:18
Apparently, Crack Cocaine has made a major landfall in Germany...  :)  There's no other explanation I can think of for this statement.
The explanation is similar to thinking she's a socialist. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-23, 15:33:19
Delegates face death threats from Trump supporters
At the Republican National Committee’s spring meeting, delegates describe vicious missives demanding they support the GOP front-runner. (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/delegates-face-death-threats-from-trump-supporters-222302)

...

Quote
“The Trump campaign needs to publicly reject bullying and threats of violence. They haven't, yet. It's not OK to give supporters threatening violence a wink and a nod.”
....



Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-24, 19:15:50
The basic and rather sad if not shocking aspect of the election is the width of support Donald Trump is getting.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-24, 19:55:06
What? You, the fan of "wide" democracy dislikes the populist? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-26, 03:55:42
Of course I believe in democracy and you really have a nerve as your place is hardly widely democratic is it? Politically it is a jome but for large numbers of Americans it is even worse.  8)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-26, 04:21:20
So, you don't really believe in democracy — only the right people having rights and the vote… :) How very white of you!
(Please, the rest of you, don't get your panties in a twist at the phrase — we all know what it means, and where it came from.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-04-26, 18:07:07
The coming Republican demographic disaster, in 1 stunning chart (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/25/the-coming-republican-demographic-disaster-in-1-stunning-chart/?postshare=191461685886159&tid=ss_fb-bottom)

(https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2016/04/Screen-Shot-2016-04-25-at-12.22.19-PM.png)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-26, 23:16:19
Yes, but it's been known for some time that the GOP faced a demographic timebomb. They're gradually making it impossible for themselves to win the presidency with their policies. What's saving them for now is the low voter turnout by Hispanics:

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-27, 01:30:30
Yup! I agree, Sang: We're on our way to becoming a third world country… (I take it, you think that's a good thing?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-04-27, 04:18:07
The Drumpf went 5/5 tonight. He has essentially crushed the Lipless Canadian's chance of the nomination, and of course, that tag-along Ohio Governor.

Billary went 4/5, only dropping Rhode Island to Comrade Bernie.

Drumpf v Billary it is then.

FSM save us all.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-27, 08:32:25
Yup, the Trump has 950 delegates of 1,237 needed to win and Billarly has 2141 (counting delegates and super delegates) out of 2383 needed to win. So the primary is pretty over in practice. At least it will be amusing watching the GOP call a Wall Street capitalist a socialist until November (and beyond when she crushes Trump in the electoral college vote.)

Here's a map of the expected outcome (http://electiongraphs.com/2016ec/) Yup, a Billary landslide by 138 electoral votes. You could say that this early it's hard to say this, but the map looks about right. I'd maybe North Carolina and Iowa could actually go Trump in the general election, but that won't be enough to tip the results in his favor. But I'd also argue the Colorado will go Billary. Even questioning three states, we're looking at Billary the 2nd. It looks like the only GOPer that could have won is Rubio (http://electiongraphs.com/2016ec/?Dem=Clinton&Rep=Rubio&Days=0&Format=spec), but he didn't appeal the the out of touch Republican base enough.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-04-27, 11:59:43
Cultural geography is a topic that draws my attention. This article turned into more party political stratification, still worth reading, and relevant here: How the Other Fifth Lives (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/opinion/campaign-stops/how-the-other-fifth-lives.html?_r=0)

Quote from: NYT
In other words, Democrats are now competitive among the top 20 percent. This has changed the economic make-up of the Democratic Party and is certain to intensify tensions between the traditional downscale wing and the emergent upscale wing.

The Republican Party in 2016 is an example of what can happen when the dominant wing fails to address the concerns of the majority. The rebellion against the Republican establishment is on the verge of producing the nomination of a man who is anathema to the majority of elected officials and party activists, a candidate with the potential to drag the party into minority status for years to come.

The “truly advantaged” wing of the Democratic Party – a phrase coined in this newspaper by Robert Sampson, a sociologist at Harvard – has provided the Democratic Party with crucial margins of victory where its candidates have prevailed. These upscale Democrats have helped fill the gap left by the departure of white working class voters to the Republican Party.

At the same time, the priorities of the truly advantaged wing — voters with annual incomes in the top quintile, who now make up an estimated 26 percent of the Democratic general election vote — are focused on social and environmental issues: the protection and advancement of women’s rights, reproductive rights, gay and transgender rights and climate change, and less on redistributive economic issues. [...]

“Morally, I am a Democrat,” one of the participants commented, “but my wallet says I am a Republican.”

A Democrat whose wallet tells him he is a Republican is unlikely be an strong ally of less well-off Democrats in pressing for tax hikes on the rich, increased spending on the safety net or a much higher minimum wage.

Bernie Sanders has tried to capitalize on this built-in tension within the Democratic primary electorate, but Hillary Clinton has so far been able to skate over intraparty conflicts. In the New York primary, for example, she did better among voters making $100,000 or more than among the less affluent, while simultaneously carrying African Americans and moderate Democrats of all races by decisive margins.

For years, Grover Norquist, a leader of the anti-tax movement, boasted that the right has built a rock-solid “leave us alone coalition,” only to see Trump crack it wide open this year.

Bernie Sanders is unlikely to do the same to the center-left coalition. His support is heavily concentrated among young, well-educated, white, very liberal, independent voters and it is not broad enough to defeat Clinton, as Tuesday’s primary results continued to demonstrate.

Anticipating this development, Tad Devine, a top adviser to Sanders, said on Saturday, “If we think we have to, you know, take a different way or re-evaluate, you know, we’ll do it then.”

Sanders’s extraordinary performance to date, however, points to the vulnerability of a liberal alliance in which the economic interests of those on the top — often empowered to make policy — diverge ever more sharply from those in the middle and on the bottom.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-27, 18:26:19
It is no credit to the millions of decent and intelligent Americans that the race is between two clowns - Trump and Clinton. She wil win and the country will have a historical liar, cheat and arrogant female who is as much prt of thje corporate corner as the Republican jokes.

Now that picture general is an outstanding one and a man of good mind, leadership and respect. Yee-haw.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-04-27, 21:26:22
It is no credit to the millions of decent and intelligent Americans that the race is between two clowns - Trump and Clinton. She wil win and the country will have a historical liar, cheat and arrogant female who is as much prt of thje corporate corner as the Republican jokes.

Now that picture general is an outstanding one and a man of good mind, leadership and respect. Yee-haw.
I particularly like that quote of his in the signature, personally. :D
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-29, 01:28:01
Former Speaker of the United States House of Representatives on Ted Cuz. “Lucifer in the flesh,” the former Speaker said. “I have Democrat friends and Republican friends. I get along with almost everyone, but I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life.” source (http://www.stanforddaily.com/2016/04/28/john-boehner-talks-election-time-in-office/)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-29, 01:51:55
Sad, sad process. I am going to drift to history and try and get a CSA battle flag for the flagpole I am getting (supplied with the GB Union jack of course). Then i can celebrate the Fort Sumpter anniversary and an imperial flag I have for the massacre of the Romanovs by the scumbags.

Mind you I still do feel for modern ex-colonists stuck with such a damn system where the two giant corporate parties are the bosses and the ordinary folk with fund no help no matter whether it is a Democrat or republican who wins. As I have said Mrs Arrogant will be in the White House and frustrate the ordinary people still. Sad really.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-29, 07:03:44
Former Speaker of the United States House of Representatives […]
Quote from: wiki
As Speaker, he was still the leader of the House Republicans. However, by tradition, he normally did not take part in debate, although he had the right to do so, and almost never voted from the floor. He was not a member of any House committees during his Speakership.
He was all about tradition! (So are you: Alinsky's Rules…) Boehner was the most pathetic "leader" of the Republican party in modern history; but you're okay with that, since you were always on the "other" side…

I appreciate that you'd oppose Senator Cruz's candidacy. But your tactics are reprehensible.
I also appreciate that you don't care about such…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-04-30, 00:42:24
What tactics are those supposed to be and to what end? The primaries leading up to my previous post (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=315.msg61106#msg61106) sealed the fate of Cruz's candidacy. There is no need to engage in anti-Cruz tactics at all. I merely found Boehner's quote amusing and Cruz's inability to get along with or work with anyone approaches legendary status.

"Lucifer" is clearly an exaggeration on Boehner's part. If anybody's Lucifer in this race it's Trump, deceiving his is gullible followers and putting them in his thrall like the anti-Christ.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-30, 05:14:49
There is a very outstanding matter reflecting on this election. Sanders has the lowest income depending on ordinary people sending in donations. Trump being a billionaire can use hos own money but Clinton is up to her ears in corporate dosh. An interesting matter neatly ignored. Everyone will already know my attitude to the system over there but there is yet another rather bad thing in the shadows. It is the matter of people NOT having the vote and this is not a tiny thing as in New York over 120,000 no longer have a vote  the vote and this is happening all over the place. Sometimes it is incompetence by the authorities but there is also some more concerning as this is a terrible thing all over the country. Not a very good advert for democracy is it? Clinton will be in the White House thanks to all that massive corporate money and have her strings pulled.Kind of funny that she is well, guilty!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-04-30, 21:03:26
There is a very outstanding matter reflecting on this election. Sanders has the lowest income depending on ordinary people sending in donations. Trump being a billionaire can use hos own money but Clinton is up to her ears in corporate dosh. An interesting matter neatly ignored. Everyone will already know my attitude to the system over there but there is yet another rather bad thing in the shadows. It is the matter of people NOT having the vote and this is not a tiny thing as in New York over 120,000 no longer have a vote  the vote and this is happening all over the place. Sometimes it is incompetence by the authorities but there is also some more concerning as this is a terrible thing all over the country. Not a very good advert for democracy is it? Clinton will be in the White House thanks to all that massive corporate money and have her strings pulled.Kind of funny that she is well, guilty!
Fair enough, but let's be fair here; after the Gormless Gordon Brown debacle, the Swine, Cameron, was a shoo-in for your PMship. There was no doubt about it.

Our system is admittedly corrupt, but your lot's is too, admittedly so.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-01, 02:05:40
No it is not like your at all and you slip into the usual ex-colonial nonsense of trying to take someone else in with you instead of just admitting the truth full stop. I do know that you know (!) that Clinton is the main corporate queen.

Our last government was a coalition between the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats. Would never happen in nutjobland. As I well pointed out elsewhere on the forums we have 4 national parties. The Tories and labour the main two and the LibDems have declined but UKIP won the UK Euro Election may I add. The parliament also includes regional parties from  Scotland, Wales, Ulster (hooray). Again this cannot and will not happen in the US of A and you damn well know that too. Our Commons Committees include all of these parties as well so a far wider democracy and the government recently lost a Commons vote on an issue so put that in the proverbial pipe and smoke it. Corporates have totally corrupted your system hence the success of Trump from people fed up with that way things are and in a different direction so many ordinary and especially young Americans supporting Sanders.

So laddie use yer heid and don't let the long standing political hypocroi=isy of your part democracy rule you.  Oh and time you had a damn limit of your string-pullers money control.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-01, 05:07:18
In other words, RJ: The more incoherent government is and the more loosely it's controlled, the better you like it? Because it's "wider" :) That is indeed a good definition of "democracy"… You're welcome to it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-01, 14:49:39
Our last government was a coalition between the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats.
From what I understand, Liberal Democrats is actually a conservative party. So in the US it would still translate in Republicans and Republicans with a few differences of opinion. I'm not feeling too impressed.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-01, 21:52:16
When it comes to political sense Oakdale you really are brain struck. A system with a far wider representation from the mess yours is in is somehow less democratic? Tell that to those flocking to Trump or Sanders legions.

As for the Liberal Democrat Party here in the home of democracy I musts helpt and say that that party is not a traditional conservative party at all.  Indeed they slumped badly from over 50 MP's to a tiny rump because their followers did not go along wi the party going into a coalition in the last parliament with the Conservatives! Since Victorian times it was simply tyhe Liberal party then a group  of MPs left the left the Labour Party to form the Social Democrats. A while later the SDP then merged with the Liberals to form the Liberal Democrats so there is no way the tradition was conservative.

How Oakdale can claim that 2 giant parties that are controlled by the corporates and big money are part of a wide democracy is puzzling to be polite. More and more Americans have lost out and are publicly saying that what they are stuck with stinks and not people orientated hence my feeling on the restrictiveness. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans have done much about the hard truth that salaries are strained, poverty is widespread in the tens of millions and the housing losses of people.  In my country the top 1" cover nearly a quarter iof government tax income and the top 10% cover almost half! As the topic is US there is a deep fault and more and more are getting frustrated at the hard truth on money barons running things and the ordinary people frustrated.  So the system is creaking and the corruption over lost voting rights across the nation are frightening.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-02, 05:54:18
A system with a far wider representation from the mess yours is in is somehow less democratic?
No! It's more democratic! And much stupider!
I read your "explanation" of British politics: It seems to me that you're a bunch of little girls. (But, of course, you've never read any psychological studies…) But perhaps not all Britishers feel the same? :)

I certainly don't claim that the Republicans and the Democrats are part of or will ever lead to a "wide" democracy.
In my country the top 1" cover nearly a quarter iof government tax income and the top 10% cover almost half! As the topic is US there is a deep fault and more and more are getting frustrated at the hard truth on money barons running things and the ordinary people frustrated.  So the system is creaking and the corruption over lost voting rights across the nation are frightening.
I assume you mean "1%" but you might just mean one inch.(…who'd expect you to know English measurements?) but one never knows with you!
(Didja measure your wee willie winkie? :) )
What a marvelous tirade, RJ!
 "Lost voting rights?" You, sir, are truly a moron.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-03, 00:11:11
Aw, come on now. That guff about whether the Democrats or republican would lead to wider democracy. No they won't because both are controlled by the money barons as you dashed well know! You insult your own grey cells by mocking us as softy girls as a daft cover up for the hard fact that your "democracy" is NOT as wide as ours and represents more.  It is the old red neck mentality of gibberish about somewhere. else knowing that the truth hurts.  Although 2 different corners the hard fact that Trump and Sanders both have attracted so many of your fellow brainers shows the extant of utter frustration of what passes for a system. Oh and of cours ignore the hundreds of thousands who are not getting a damn vote either. Due to the level of the big buck controllers you need to be with the Democrats and Republicans to get on to the Hill and that is damn pathetic.  On a lower level (so easy over there!) you are a bit immature politically and in general and can be manipulated like wee lassies.

You know that I am too near the truth bt do follow the nutjob mentality so widespread over on the land of the free and home of the brave (if you have money and cry under the flag, snigger, snigger). Yeah by all means enjoy doing that being such a house hermit and not able to mix with normal people - well except when drunk too much! So maybe I should make allowances for that unfortunate state but there are many like you over there so there we are!  :happy:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-03, 00:57:56
Why do you persist in this delusion that Americans want democracy? Especially a "wide" one? :)
[…] of cours[e] ignore the hundreds of thousands who are not getting a damn vote […]
Yes, that "damn vote" thingy! I'll bet your lodge and church allow all comers to "vote"…on all matters! Muslims, communists, IRA members! The more the merrier — you know, "wide"…
Both the Democrat and Republican parties are private associations. You have a problem with that, too? :)

Of course you do! In America. It's just fine for the minions in GB… What harm, eh? :) A few parades a year, football riots; an occasional referendum. No big deal, for a "wide" democracy: Power stays where it always was.
———————————————————————
I assume you're talking about the selection of candidates for the general election? (Or am I giving you too much credit?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-05-03, 01:37:43
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KcHg5ZOIgU[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-05-03, 02:10:26
the top 1"
Ah, the old "just the tip" gag? Nice. Before ya know it you're bollocks deep.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-03, 02:19:44
Before ya know it you're bollocks deep.
Nah. I know what's what! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-05-03, 03:04:39
Oh dear. :-\
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-03, 03:35:51
However much one drinks, some things are just obvious… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-05-04, 03:06:38
Donald Trump is the Presumptive GOP Presidential Nominee ..... Ted Cruz has withdrawn from the race, & has said he would not contest the nomination at the convention.

Being I think Sanders has no real chance, & never did, it will be Clinton v Trump in November. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-04, 03:51:20
A sad moment in American history…

RJ should disagree; but consistency ain't exactly his strong point! Now that we have a "wider" democracy, we deserve what we get.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-04, 04:33:15
Well actually I do think it is damn sad to be frankly honest.

All those large numbers following Trump and the excuse being given that he is not part of the establishment is the reason given. He would be a nightmare as President not only for the wider world but for America internally. As for Clinton she might be a clever cookie but she IS deep into the corporate world and will make no damn difference to all those Americans wanting a change and being frustrated. Senator Sanders I had surmised would not win due to money crowd Democrats but he has shown a very deep unhappiness of many especially the young who supported him. A combination of a liar and smart alec, Clinton will be no great strength to the mass of people in the country and I think it is so damnable that the race became a farce. Clinton will be a bossy boots and Trump would be a world jome. A friend of mine who has lived in California for over 40 years when I told her how much news we get dumped on here re the election said she felt embarrassed.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-04, 05:37:03
But, RJ, that's what the people want… You know: democracy! :)
We're moving in the direction you've recommended, no?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-05-04, 11:18:19
Democracy failed miserably here. (It didn't even take 3 decades.)
Don't our mistakes teach you anything[1]?
No... they don't teach anything at all. :left:
People(*) get what they choose.
(*) Me not included
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-05-04, 13:47:47
They might be taking notes. Clinton has fairly broad support in her own party, newcomers to the party Trump and Sanders have not (neither did Cruz). An impeachment process might actually succeed.

The classic trick of course is to pick a Vice President more terrifying than yourself.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-04, 13:58:13
The classic trick of course is to pick a Vice President more terrifying than yourself.
Kanye West? :P
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-04, 15:04:42
An impeachment process might actually succeed.
Thankfully, the electoral map is against Trump. But if he somehow becomes president, he stands a better than average chance of impeachment: Trump "University", mafia ties. A President Trump could be brought down if a Republican congress would actually grow a pair.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-04, 16:54:15
This might be of interest to some.

Quote from: http://atheistethicist.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-three-failings-of-trump.html
It seems that the Republicans have selected Trump as their candidate for President of the United States.
 
I was caught entirely by surprise - as were a great many others.
 
The reason for my surprise is because I did not think people would actually vote for such poor candidate. I was confident that voters would ultimately turn away from him and give their vote to somebody worthy the office of President.

An earlier post on the subject:
Quote from: http://atheistethicist.blogspot.com/2016/03/reforming-bernie-sanders-revolution.html
If people intend to see the Bernie Sanders revolution continue, I would like those within the movement to make the effort to advocate for three reforms among their fellow revolutionaries.

Reform 1: The poorest of the poor around the world matter.

If the moral principle at play here is that there is a moral permission - even a moral obligation - to take firm those who have a great deal of wealth to those who have little, then there is an obligation to help those in extreme poverty.

[…]

Reform 2: Respect the scientific consensus and the principles of evidence and rationality.

The practice of using political ideology to filter good science from bad science must end. On matters of scientific knowledge, the scientific consensus has a privileged status.

This includes such things as the climate change, genetically modified foods, nuclear power, gender differences, and innate versus learned abilities. Picking up the claim of some rogue scholar and declaring, "He is correct because I like his conclusions," or dismissing the consensus of experts because their conclusions contradict a cherished personal belief is intellectually reckless at best.

[…]

Reform 3: Quit using the decisive language of political scapegoating.

This refers to the types of finger-pointing language where a politician of political movement points a finger at some group of individuals and identifies them as "the other" - a threat that the politician promises to deal with if given political power.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-05, 02:42:24
I watched a television item about Obama and he was very belligerent. The world should take note of his country and fall in line with it and included everything including it's control of world business and economics. He said the world should be very envious. Eh? Dear, oh dear.

The trouble is that Clinton will follow that line too and she will do damn all about the inadequacies internally in America. One cannot help but feel for the vast amount of people over there who are being used by the corporates and she is fully part of that corner. What ever items one could maybe challenge Sanders on the fact that a very wide number did support him and especially the young is increasingly showing that so many people feel disgruntled and being taken for a ride. With a nation controlled by 2 corporate big parties the frustration has got wide and making many there so damn fed up. Some may say that is why Trump gets so many behind him but he is embarrassing the country everywhere and he would get nowhere elsewhere in the world. A long time back I said on Opera that even a Republican President way back decades ago (Eisenhower) warned his countrymen of the rise of the corporates into the political machine. He was proved right.

Clinton will be a bossy boots like many women who get high office but it will not help the world nor the millions suffering in the country. The loyalty of people has been stolen.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-05, 03:48:57
I think I now fully understand why your neighbors twice refused to elect you, even to local office: You can't help yourself. Your ticks and twitches are what you are, what you really believe!

America can survive a Clinton or a Trump presidency. What can Scotland survive? (Of course, you don't care… :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-06, 00:27:05
Look numpty heid, America survive?? Before you type anything do try and use your brain. Armies of people losing homes, inflation, economy tens of millions on food stamps and so on. If that is survival then you deserve to have some imbecile like Trump making your country look like a laughing stock. Yeah could only happen over there.  Satire is for people with grey cells.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-06, 05:06:41
I know what you mean, RJ! If things continue this way we'll be as bad off as Scotland! Heaven forfend…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-07, 01:02:22
When you become a democracy your hermit life style maybe be better influenced.......
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-07, 01:57:17
I am a democracy! I let my rational mind, my emotions and the traditions I grew up with determine what I believe! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-07, 19:27:51
Outside your front door not of that happens Oakdale.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-09, 00:22:46
Look numpty heid, America survive?? Before you type anything do try and use your brain. Armies of people losing homes, inflation, economy tens of millions on food stamps and so on. If that is survival then you deserve to have some imbecile like Trump making your country look like a laughing stock. Yeah could only happen over there.  Satire is for people with grey cells.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quotesfrenzy.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F12%2FCool-Story-Bro-Inspirational-Life-Quotes.jpg&hash=54044338554797f5152876e499212a34" rel="cached" data-hash="54044338554797f5152876e499212a34" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.quotesfrenzy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Cool-Story-Bro-Inspirational-Life-Quotes.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-09, 00:41:31
Typical American answer from the ordinary Yank. Not once have you lot ever been able to answer the in the face hypocrisy on the lack of democracy the constant interference in rights the lack of a wide political system those millions on food stamps, economy, house losers in the million and so on. Instead the routine is to avoid the obvious and sneer or mock.  All that does to thinking people outside how stupid many are . Is also an embarrassment for the sensibles in the US You suit the nutjob mentality well midnight and what a country that has 2 numpties wanting to be President. Trump is a nightmare of a clown and Clinton is a lying, cheating and two-faced corporate pal. So call me whatever you want but shows how ridiculous things are. No sensible and democratic country would tolerate a Trump but you lot have no choice. So sneer away by all means as an excuse to avoid the truth! I do feel for progressive Americans but the Presidential stuff is a tragic joke.

I do sincerely hope that one day the system does change and become more democratic in a practical wide way and beyond the control of the corporate controllers.  Senator Sanders did make a very plausible and progressive (and surprising change) to the dumb routine and one can hope that it may one day be the basis for that wider regime that Americans of intelligence want to see and I keep the optimism. Sadly the success of Clinton will make no damn difference to the economy, salaries, big homelessness or the tens of millions of poor in a country that Obama has been telling the world they should be envious off. Head-shaking hypocrisy.  So enoy the childish razzmatazz because nothing will change when she gets in.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-09, 01:35:59
RJ, we can take our soapboxes to the park just as you do… :) And, now, that we might elect someone from his soapbox you say we're un-democratic?
But I agree, it's not hypocrisy on your part: It's stupidity!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-05-09, 02:23:35
I was just passing through, & found myself needing to re-educate that ole Scot .....again.

Ole man you keep harping on about democracy this & democracy that.

Maybe you've been watching too much TV rather than reading what you're responding to.

Now, you are forgiven if you've been duped by those that know no better here in America, or anywhere else for that matter, who have been saying that America is some sort of super democracy....bla...bla...bla. If you were taken in by all that ra, ra, ra stuff, you should know better.

America isn't any super democracy. Not even a great democracy, or even a fair democracy....& if you've been complaining that it isn't a democracy, well then you've been right.....America isn't.  All America happens to be, it's the best damn place in all the world. For better or worse it's the land we love, & love it we do for what it is, & not for what the world wants it to be.  We wouldn't have it any other way.

Now, for your re-education RJ:

As I've told you once, I've told you a dozen times ....... America doesn't live up to your high falutin' "democratic expectations", not because it's inferior in any way, far from it, but it's because America isn't even a democracy, so pardon us for not giving a rat's ass if we don't fit your expectation of a democracy.  We don't care to, nor want to be.

Nope, America isn't a democracy (never was, & hopefully never will be)..........America is, & get it into that thick Scot skull of yours once & for all, America is a Constitutional Republic. Sure, much of our Constitutional Republic is based around a form of democracy, but in the end, our American form of government is far from being the democracy as you strive for.......& happily so!

Now, put that in yer haggis, & stew on it fer a while. You've been educated....like it or not! 

Class dismissed.      Ooh Ah Up The 'RA!!!     

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-09, 07:02:24
He won't get it, Smiley… But of course you knew that already.

I've heard Sean Hannity (for months now…) saying that the Republican Party should constrain their state arms to a caucus or primary; because -you know- people's votes are what matters. That tells me that he's gone over to the dark side.
(Or that he's just not very bright! :) )
Good government and conservative principles no longer matter! :(

As for RJ, he has no idea how much he relies upon such! (And how quickly he's losing them.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-10, 11:11:29
Not once have you lot ever been able to answer the in the face hypocrisy, and the rest of the rant I vomit unto this forum for the 1000th time
[troll]You mad, bro? [/troll] Seriously, what kind response did you expect for ranting the same fucking thing for who knows how many times regardless of the thread topic. C'mon, man. Come up with some new material. Do you even type all that out, or do you just have a folder full of "responses" and just copy/paste? Yes, we're stuck with bad choices for president again. We all know this. But you can't tell me you don't wind up with complete twats as PM, can you?  Nope, didn't think so.

Now do try not to spill haggis on your kilt as you scramble for a bullshit answer. I'll bet those thing are hard to clean and not fade the "colours", but you would know better than me. By the way. what are your clan colors on your kilt? That of the McDipshits?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-12, 01:29:15
Well there you are raccoon your fellow Yank, Smiley has encapsulated it well on not caring a damn about real democracy. For all the hype that dribbles out we are told how great, democratic, free and rightful the place is and your President has repeatedly said the same thing on tv even recently. This however does not square with the large numbers over there who are internally suffering and you can get as nasty as you like because you and people before you are never answering the long nonsense about the greatnesses when the history and even present day practice. So lower yourself to disgusting cursing because nothing I have said is anything but the hard truth.  When a President is as locked in as all of you who are brained there is a deep problem. Haggis and kilts mean little to me  an shows the juvenile red neck mentality you unfortunately have.

As for the Presidential farce election how can such a "great nation" be stuck with a corporate head-banger and a female cheating, sleekit and corporate controlled mind.  A farce, embarrassing and disgraceful choice.  Ireland has one great advantage of one terrorist supporter less in Smiley. Yur country politically is a nightmare and the race for the White House is ridiculous in a modern country. It does the country no damn good and makes it a joke.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-13, 01:44:23
Well there you are raccoon your fellow Yank, Smiley has encapsulated it well on not caring a damn about real democracy.
Yes, he did. And it's not our fault that ESL classes came too late for you… :)
The "hype" (as you call it) is the result of ignorance, on your part.

But, if it makes you feel any better, Sean Hannity has caught the "democracy" bug too: He seems to think that the Republican Party is an organ of the state… You know that's not how things work in your country either!
Or am I wrong? Does the government control everything over there? :)

Well, you're the "expert" on democracy… So, you tell me.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-13, 01:59:48
And yet you can't explain how the UK is any better besides having more political parties, most of which only have token representation in Parliament. Oh that's right, they have token member on committees :p You complain of "millions on food stamps" even as record numbers use foodbanks in your country. "Millions" on foodstamps means nothing in and of itself in country of ~320,000,000 million people. One percent of the population would be over 3,000,000 people. Of course it would be easy enough to google up the real figures, but the point is your posts mean nothing. As such, the don't deserve a more serious answer.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-13, 07:34:05
I'm aghast to find myself agreeing with you, Sang… But you and I have known people at the margins of society: The bureaucratic "hoops" people are made to jump through — or fall through the cracks — are not justifiable!
I don't care (much…) that Scotland is worse off. I do wish it weren't; I don't like people suffering unnecessarily…
But we do have real problems, here. And I'd like to see policies that deal with such.
Of course, we'll likely disagree about which would do so…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-13, 16:25:56
I don't care (much...) that Scotland is worse off
What Howie does care about is this delusion that Americans are worse off than Scots both economically and politically. Gloating about America's problems somehow makes him feel better about himself. It's sad. He doesn't care about America's poor. If poverty was his chief concern, what about the poor in Glasgow? Glasgow's child poverty rate is 33 percent (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-29618050)and according to the chart, the worst in Scotland Why doesn't he rail against that and "leaders" there who seem unable to reduce that number?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-13, 19:38:15
Glasgow is NOT Scotland and anyway the hype you dish out is that from the usual lefty mindsets here. In those same areas of the city mentioned which I sometimes had to work in pubs and betting shops were never empty. Satellite tv dishes the norm. Majority of children had mobile phones no-one look liked tramps. The Welfare State for allit's high proncipled side has been a bonus for them and they do not really want. Computers and more than one tv is the standard so poverty is NOT the same as in the non-welfars system in the USA. I even ran a youth organisation on one such area for decades and we went across the Irish sea to Northern ireland for years and they were all from such supposed backgrounds yet paid to go. 

The guff we get here is typical of the brain propagandad that hass been foiste on Americans. Let me make it clear in simple terms whoch the midnights ofm the world will of course ignore. The President boasts of being the greatest country in the world and envied in it's democracy, rights, freedoms and greatness, blah, blah. Yet at the same tim just look at the actual truth....

. 1. Founded by the money class and ruled it since.
2.  Stealing Indian lands, conning them and mistreatment.
3. Lincoln the arch hero was a liar and disgrace and made it clear out of public eye that Negroes would get no real rights at all so mass numbers died in a Civil War for what?.
4. Blacks treated like animals. The greatest country in the world on freedom and rights separated black and white soldiers in WW2 fighting the racist Nazis (!)
5. In the Russian Civil War while it had troops in Russia with GB and Japan to support the Whites against the Reds were in practice going behind Allied backs to deal with business with the damn Reds.
6. At Yalta after WW2 the President going behind Churchill's back to deal with that git, Stalin as the Yanks thought they were supreme.
7. Try and be a third party nationally, State-wise or locally and democracy fails due to the big two corporates.
8. It is reckoned that the numbers of Americans not getting a Presidential vote is in 7-figures.
9. In the bad thirties workers getting beaten up by gangs organised by bosses and getting away with it.
10. Police forces in cities all over acting like armies and getting away with just about anything.
11. Made a damn mess of South Vietnam with 500,000 military there and hopeless.
12. Some 2.3 million in prison.
13 A Military of what is it around a million as you have the right to dictate to the world on your glorious principles?
14. That 1,000,000 a year losing homes.
15. The 40,000,000 poor living on food stamps.
16. More spy agencies than any other country in the world then added yet another under GW Bush (!). Control freaks.

Just a wee selection. Now it would be a passing thing if it wasn't that your leaders boast so much and actually tell the world it is the greatest country in the world with the best rights, democracy and principles. The nationalism outdoes many other places so maybe you lot should shut you global mouths, stop disestablishing the places that will not succumb to your imperialism  in modern to
times.

Now you would have an axe to try and grind if tyou were not such a boasting world controlling bunch oif hypocrites and the section of things I have given not only contradicts such but always gets ignored so shows how deep the nationalism work is the the country. Now it does not mean there are not principled people over there  but they are by far ignored because the media, economic world, etc is subtly controlled.  :rolleyes:

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-13, 21:38:00
And yet you find us endlessly fascinating! :) You're a hoot, Howie.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-14, 16:43:37
Now it does not mean there are not principled people over there  but they are by far ignored because the media, economic world, etc is subtly controlled.
You mean like the telly and DM control you?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-14, 23:15:27
Everyone please note that the country that boasts so damn much and beats the chest is unable to deal with the truth. Always, always a smart trait away from the deep contradictions of the built-in global boasting!   :D  :lol:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-15, 03:08:26
Everyone please note that the country that boasts so damn much and beats the chest …
You do know that most of this exists only in your imagination? :)
"Projection" is what the Freudians call it. (I'd bet Scotland has more Freudians per capita than the U.S. … But I'll let you do the search; use your "wide" democracy" if you like!)

BTW: How does a country boast? Oh, yes! I remember: Some ignorant git hears some other ignorant git say something "boastful" and decides that it represents the attitude of the entire nation — because he can't imagine a country where people think for themselves. (He must, this "imaginer," be a Glaswegian… :) You know: People that aren't Scotland… Or is that only people who aren't Howies? What are there now? Two left?)

You long ago "jumped the shark," RJ.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-15, 08:43:28
BTW: How does a country boast? Oh, yes! I remember: Some ignorant git hears some other ignorant git say something "boastful" and decides that it represents the attitude of the entire nation -- because he can't imagine a country where people think for themselves.
Through a stylistic figure popularly known as totum pro parte. Although I think that claimed belief in American exceptionalism (i.e., America's foreign policy is formed by ideals rather than self-interest like in other countries) is largely rhetorical, such ideas — perhaps originating with John Winthrop and his contemporaries — still find their echoes in anyone from George Washington to Barack Obama. Germans, especially @krake, would say America is simply practicing Realpolitik while deluding itself. In any case, part of this self-delusion can, perhaps somewhat crudely, be called boasting. You and Smiley take part whenever you repeat the silly meme that America is a republic, not a democracy: a statement somehow meant to imply that America is different from other modern democracies, but it's no more than a bait and switch. It doesn't matter what Plato the killjoy had to say about ancient Greek democracy. Think more Kant than Plato — any (proper) modern, liberal democracy is a rechtsstaat, including the United States. Keep in mind that America has a lot to boast about. I only object to some of the 19th-century style grasping at nationalistic straws. But this rhetorical [strategy] against @rjhowie is disappointing. :)

Edit: added the intended word "strategy" to the last sentence.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-15, 10:27:04
American exceptionalism (i.e., America's foreign policy is formed by ideals rather than self-interest like in other countries)
First time I hear such interpretation. Exceptionalism it's meant as simple superiority, either trhough American mission or by American nature or by both.
Basically a failed intempt to gain aristocratic status.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-15, 12:52:47
Exceptionalism it's meant as simple superiority
I would say that's the wrong, ahistorical interpretation recently charioted by Dick "bomb the shit out of" Cheney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exceptional:_Why_the_World_Needs_a_Powerful_America).[1]
Wait, that quote's Trump. Might as well be Cheney though. :P
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-15, 13:25:45
I found this interesting Sanders, Trump, and the War Over American Exceptionalism (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/sanders-trump-and-the-war-over-american-exceptionalism/462267/).

Quote
American exceptionalism has meant different things at different historical periods. But today, it generally denotes Americans’ peculiar faith in God, flag, and free market—a religiosity, a nationalism, and a rejection of socialism and class-consciousness that distinguishes the United States from other advanced democracies.

No matter how and when you look at it, it's always the same thing, an attempt to create "History", to create an Ancestry, an Heritage, a "different and above" others. That such thing can emanate from a society like America, it's unbelievably ridiculous.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-05-15, 15:04:27
Quote
American exceptionalism has meant different things at different historical periods.
Nope.
Only the rhetoric was different at different historical periods.
American exceptionalism always translated as tradition of militarized global hegemony.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-05-15, 17:40:29
Rj's "Deceleration of Grievances" holds some 'truths' to be self-evident. And I, for one, don't think anyone appreciated that... He fuckin' numbered 'em y'all. [lol.] As we move into this new era of rj posts one can only look to the horizon and wonder, what's next? Supporting links? Quotes? It's no time to get carried away, tho, as spell check and sentence structure are still well beyond that horizon. But seeing primitive bullet points and an overall loose format gives me hope for the future. And I don't mean that he'll spend hours chicken-pecking out mediocre content, like he undoubtedly did there, but that even in these modern times the most stable of rock can be carved to resemble American Presidents... ??? Or something. (Eh, moot point anyway.) :cheers:   
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-15, 19:02:57
My imagination Oakdale??

Now i can understand a mental red neck giving that unbelievable guff but, eh?  Not one of those in the shrunk list (!) are made-up and fine that everyone knows even if they don't want to admit it. Indeed it is one thing the odd person being belligerent becaue of the deep inherent nationalism pumped into Americans from a young age. Even the flag is everywhere except the toilet (yet).

The sensible over there can silently admit that there is not much that can be detracted from my list that makes their country look ridiculous when it portrays so-called great principles to the world. The practical history depicts the hypocritical and state of the system and that more and more there are getting frustrated by what they are having to put up with. Leaving aside the overbearing patriotism which is frankly downright groaning nationalism. Although from two much different corners the hard fact that both the eejit Trump and the more practical Sanders are so well supported indicates in their different ways the deep frustration of more and more Americans.

What will they get when Clinton takes the White House> Sod all. All those millions inside the country wil still be in mass numbers and the foreign policy will be leaning towards the neo-con daftness. For all her put on rhetoric Clinton is a corporate woman and that she gets so much support from that corner is not good for America either in foreign policy, imperialism or what is more damn important than trying to rule the world is the suffering of tens of millions of decent Americans at home. They have had their decency, loyalty, etc, string pulled by the Wall Street lot and the global military cost weighing them down is yet another part of the money baron ploy.

Have met many fine Americans over the years and got into good conversations on my two visits years ago and damn well wished they got a better deal but Clinton will be a horrible President and she has to support all the money men who funded her. That does NOT help the routine American one damn bit.
home
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-15, 19:08:58
Nope.
Only the rhetoric was different at different historical periods.
You confuse my quotes with my posts.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-16, 16:21:30
Not one of those in the shrunk list (!)
And what do you suppose the purpose of that silly thing that slanders a president from a century and half ago? Do you suffer the delusion that it's not just as easy to come up with a list of negatives about the UK or any other country? Oh yes, the stereotypes about Americas. I suppose Scots are a bunch of skinflint, drunken, wife-beating, haggis eating, kilt wearing sheep shaggers, aren't you? Of course I don't really believe that. But you belief the rubbish you say about Americans? If so, what is your defect?

What do you think you have to say for yourself now? Negatives about Trump and Clinton, as if we already didn't know this? If Clinton gets elected, will she really be worse than Tony Blair was? "Millions on foodstamps?" as you explain away 1/3 of Glasgow children live in poverty (yes, official poverty not controversial concept of "relative poverty." ) Of course, you incoherently complain about the number of people on food assistance in the US, while in other posts complain that the welfare state in the US isn't large enough. So I guess you want us to have 60 million on "foodstamps" so you can complain about that while being happy about the American welfare state being expanded? WTF?

I suppose I must not be a "sensible American" in your view. The fact is some of what you say is true. But I see it as the mean-spirit, America bashing way you mean and not as constructive criticism or to start an open minded dialog. That's why some of your America bashing is self contradictory.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-17, 03:36:41
Usual guff from you midnight asd a drift away from the abject national and international hypocrisy. Instead you desperately grab at the rubbish that comes from our version of the leftist propaganda. May I say again as it does not register with you that tghe "poor" here are not in some shocking desert. When one pays tax has been almost doubled since the last Labour and left government was in (2 elections ago now), welfare payments are wide, minimum wage level is up, pensions are up and so on.  Basically the lower people have more of their money and also get rent allowances.  I also pointed out they don't basically want and have telephones, usually more than one tv, computers and so on. We recently had a tv programme about them and what i found head shaking was one moaner who had an Apple laptop in a "poor" neighbourhood and another an Appe I phone. Some even have second hand cars and so on.

The situation is totally different in your country and there is no Welfare state and the things we have and taken for granted. Secondly you totally also ignore all the national mental flag waving in the USA the boasting and doing so across the world just as your president does right now. The widespread situation of the poor in America is something a lot worse than you using leftists here  to draw away from the hard truth. Big money rules over there and if you are down then tough. The last time we had a Labour Party in power they did little for the poorer in society and as I state since then wider payments, tax, pensions, etc all far better. You do what all you ex-colonists do and scratch around for something because you cannot really deal with the hard truth of the national hypocrisy. Poor in the US IS a lot worse than here.. You may possibly be aware of the matter regarding Trump and Clinton but damn well stuck with it due to the 2 corporate parties and no-one else has a damn chance and well you know it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-17, 05:08:37
Usual guff from you midnight asd a drift away from the abject national and international hypocrisy.
…forgot which tread you're in, again, Howie? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-17, 07:44:37
...forgot which tread you're in, again, Howie?
It's because the Irn Bru went to his brain. Howie, are you aware that this thread is a actually the 2016 elections. It's not the "Bash America" thread.

Our poor have much the services as yours. In fact, it's long been controversial because it's not uncommon to see people in $100 plus Nike shoes paying for their groceries with an EBT card (replacing the actual stamps in "foodstamps") and purchase pizzas with it at the Seven-11. There are housing subsidies for the poor and private programs such as Habitat for Humanity.  I'm not sure where you get your misinformation. There is real poverty and homelessness in America as there  in Britain, of which there are many causes that are better discussed in thread on the subject. Again though, the poor are not your concern. Bashing America is.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-18, 03:06:31
The poor are in hard practice worse off in the ex-colonies as we have a Welfare State. And for the information of the know-it-all folk here I have great experience of the "poor." My full time job involved me with them for years and my voluntary youth work in a national voluntary youth organisation in a challenging area gives me credit that the bunk here. Before the Education job I worked in the Social Security Dept so unlike your mindsets I have a great deal of practical experience both job-wise and very long and deep community voluntary work.

The area I knew well in it's hay day had 30,000 people and like other places you never seen anyone looking like a tramp, pubs well used and the betting shop.  Homes I visited in my job and my well known youth involvement were all very neat and lacked nothing. Like elsewhere more than one tv, computers and just about every kid had a mobile phones.  Nobody starved and many just lived off the State as well as free rents, etc.  The guiff you come out with midnight is based in the selective equal guff from the leftist mindset which has been in such a mess they have lost the last 2 general elections by big numbers.  In my comment I also said that the rate where you start paying any tax has went up £500 each year and will shortly be double what the last Labour government miserly gave. Pensions rose over £3 a week. Senior Citizens get £200 every Christmas towards winter heating bills as well. Thes folk in "poor areas" don't actually do any protesting because they actually do very well thank you and a lot better than the equivilant across the pond.In one regular house I visited I was stunned to find them throwing out packets after packets of frozen food from a big freezer as they didn't need theml

As for bashing America that is so easy because as a country you are so boastful and as I also pointed out I watched Obama giving an address about how great a country, democracy, ful of rights that everyone was envious of it. Uh?When i detailed the 40 million on food stamps or the vast numbers losing homes and many having to live in cars  too this is ignored. If you were not so damn boastful whilst ignoring the hard truth so many decent Americans suffer with because of no National Health or Welfare State you leave yourselves wide open! If you lot didn't do all the yak boasting you could scuff me off the planet but I am too near the damn truth hence the inability to balance the chest beating with the truth.  So easy dealing with somewhere so politically immature!  :)

ps Enjoy yh carnival that passes for an election and the result will make no damn difference for those massive numbers of your country folk who are the doldrum.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-18, 08:48:19
Yes, because you have so much experience with our poor. :p Some are really in poverty, others have basically a middle class lifestyle for all their benefits. It probably is true that your welfare is more developed than ours, but you'll note the the Per Capita GDP by purchasing power parity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita) in the US is quite a bit more than that of the UK. So let's your low income person gets the equivalent of USD 10000 in benefits but ours gets 8000.  That USD 8000 goes further than your 10000 because of the actual buying power.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-18, 19:06:48
Although I did spend a great deal of time and especially in my voluntary work (hence a chapter in a book, BBCRadio interview, etc) I was also aware that there is a very deep matter of people who see the Welfare State as an alternative not a net due to the asmount of money which IS put into it and that is huge.  It was overdue for a government to do something about it and successive ones had simply went along with pushing up payments pushed into work. It is so easy for a particular corner of politicians to wax on about poverty and misuse the word totally. We don't have areas full of slims people pusing trolleys about homeless or folk in rags. There are large numbers of people in the category you go on about who are getting payments they can fully live on and have more than one television, and all the things that people in cumfy situations have.

So it is neat to misuse the word "poor" to try and detract from the situation in your own land where there is no Welfare State national free health and so on. I worked hard in my job areas and even more so n my voluntary capacity where I was much appreciated even stretching to being asked to conduct funerals! At the same time I was consciously aware that there were far too many people who are misusing the Welfare system. They do not starve nor want for any routine things at all but quite content to go along with Labour politicians who keep misusing the words like poverty and so on. That the numbers who were on sickness benefits has fell by mass numbers only emphasises what I say and it was not before time that Housing estates for the less well off including the one I soent so much time in are modern, smart and a lot better than many places over the pond. There are no riots, parades and all that stuff.

So a nice try using the propaganda of the British left but it has been out of power for 2 general elections with the worse results for decades and the reason is not because others want to destroy the "poor." It is because far too much was dished out quite literally with no real checks or balance.  In your corner ven getting a job with health benefits is a basic thing but not needed here. We even get people going on holiday trips to Europe who are living off the country so the less well off are I stand by saying are safer here than in the States.  Your biggest problem is the well indoctrinated nationalism that has patriotism as the cover and because of the stuff heavily portrayed as the greatest country in the world does make it open to a kick as nothing will happen to reduce the million a year losing homes, the tens of millions of poor on stamps and so on so the election does zilch for them.  Twice on tv here we have seen a documentary where a team of doctors and dentists organised a tour of the USA setting up tents etc to offer free health care and they could not cope.  I can almost understand using the let politicians here to try and detract from a very deep malaise over there but it is no excuse for the sad hypocrisy that effects far too many in your own land. Oh and I came from a city working class family background and wanted for nothing and we as a family were not gong to drift into what happened with the Welfare State being seen as an alternative to working, etc.   Still stand by that being less well off in the States is I am afraid, worse.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-05-18, 19:39:48
here are large numbers of people in the category you go on about who are getting payments they can fully live on and have more than one television, and all the things that people in cumfy situations have

What is your obsession with TV about?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-19, 00:59:01
What is your obsession with TV about?

Evidently, he's worried our poor don't have access to it, despite the fact that lower income houses use it more than higher income ones :)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nielsen.com%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fcorporate%2Fus%2Fen%2Fimages%2Freport-insights%2F2015%2FQ3-TA-landing-page-image.gif&hash=3cf2abfbd71f4ec66d7caeab08f47a99" rel="cached" data-hash="3cf2abfbd71f4ec66d7caeab08f47a99" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corporate/us/en/images/report-insights/2015/Q3-TA-landing-page-image.gif)





Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-05-19, 11:11:05
That's why they are lower income houses. :left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-19, 21:18:08
Anyway back to the theme.

Clinton is an arrogant actress and will not be an asset to the country nor to the world in general that her country intereferes with.  Trump is a total embarrassment to America and we can I suppose lighten the load by falling into the theme that many are fed up with what goes on in the political system. That may of course have an element of truth in it but at the same time it is a total negative thing for such a man to be as prominent and influential amongst so many people. Indeed that is more of a groan to the decent and sensible that he is as he is. It betrays more generally the fact that there is a deep problem and so many people are frustrated.

A really big change is needed and that so many don't bother to vote or legions who cannot have a damn vote is shocking is it not? All that stuff Clinton puts on at a rally or event is a neat bit of acting but I do not envy the people when they get stuck with her. The armies of the less off and straining will see no difference and the people deserve far better than they are getting and will get.  I think that Sanders is holding on as an encouragement to so many both those who feel sidelined and the young in the hope that it will produce a new direction in the future so someone needs to take up his cudgel in the time to come. Under Clinton world imperialism will continue and strains between the US and Russia the less off will see no change and the corporates and military business world will remain happy. The American people deserve a big change and a modern revolution. Crying shame what the people are stuck with.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-19, 22:53:09
Again, I hope Trump wins so the world can see what the American society really is like.
A society that chose Trump as the best they have.
Then, things will change.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-05-19, 23:42:05
@rjhowie

Were you able to run for President, what would your platform be?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-20, 01:38:15
Clinton is an arrogant actress and will not be an asset to the country nor to the world in general that her country intereferes with.
It's better to have someone that's not asset than a lunatic. Perhaps Trump is sane personally, but his policies are deluded. Start a trade war with China? Way to wreck havoc on American economy and possibly on the world. Yes, manufacturing jobs need to be brought back to the US but hallucinating that he'll bully China is not the way to accomplish this and will backfire. Another word about Trump, he's become notorious for making a stance one week and contradicting it the next. His supporters think he's a straight shooter and they know where he stands, lol.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-20, 02:17:40
I take what you just said to mean that the Chinese will need to deal with someone who is "Chinese"… :) My goodness, what will they do?!

You're always giving advice to Republicans; as if you have any idea what they want to achieve… Of course, what you really mean is that whatever they want should be defeated, sooner or late.

Why do manufacturing jobs need to be "brought back" to the U.S.? We're -most of us- "social scientists" and fast-food servers, nowadays! (Is there a difference…?!) The world's economy is "hairy".
Perhaps we need more stylists?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-21, 01:00:34
My dear colonel,

I would want to set a financial limit on what a person can spend in a district to elect a congressman or senator.

Introduce a better welfare health system (to become an MP here or a city councillor there are limits).

Require the rich to pay a more constructive percentage.

Widen the media television interviews to include smaller parties and try and get away from the incessant hold of Democrats and Republicans.

Widen the local situation for city councils so that small local parties can have a better chance.

Investigate the reason why massive numbers are not getting the chance to vote because they are told they cannot prove who they re.

Reduce the armed forces, stop interfering everywhere as if a God given right.

The present system no longer is suitable for the country and many know that but not getting any chance of doing a sod about it hence the poor turnout at the last elections.  In the media there is also a need fror another reformation because it does not effectively do a wide enough franchise and even at present Sanders for example was back seated often.  Many of your countrymen know that there is a malaise and do not get involved  in the present farce the system has become. maybe at one time it was (and I stick with maybe) better a long time ago but the world has changed and at the moment things are not democratic enough. Just to fall back on being a republic means nothing as republics are often open to falseness and lack of democracy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-21, 05:02:33
What's this "democracy" thing you keep mentioning, RJ? :)
And why would it be so good…?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-21, 08:29:20
ust to fall back on being a republic means nothing as republics are often open to falseness and lack of democracy.
Technically it's correct that constitution does not specify a democracy. Witness the old USSR, where you got to vote for communist A or communist B. This brings us the point of just saying the "the US is a republic and not a democracy" is dangerous to freedom. Some of the most oppressive regimes in modern history (Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, the DDR do you own research...) have been "republics."

But, Howie, you need to do research as well. I don't disagree with the idea of having candidates from smaller parties having debate and thereby gaining media exposure. But you also need to understand many of the innovations of the Democrats and Republicans originated in the "third parties." It's also true we're stuck with the choice of Ass Clown vs Fuck Wit for president, so it's not a surprise that many (or even the majority) vote for neither. In principle, I like Sanders. But many of his policies would never or even should never see the light of day. That isn't to say all of Trump's or Hillary's crap should either.








Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-21, 10:53:27
Many of your countrymen know that there is a malaise and do not get involved  in the present farce the system has become.
The USA will never be run as a pretty nice European country. Not even as a civilized Canada.
The US are at an entropic process that will culminate with Trump's (or someone alike) final country destruction.

These are really the wrong times to enter into collapse and clearly neither the Republicans or the Democrats knows what to do. Both are the cause not the solution.

Meanwhile, Russians, Chinese and Europeans smile and regroup their positions.
The Eagle will not fly for a very long time.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-05-21, 13:58:35
The US are at an entropic process that will culminate with Trump's (or someone alike) final country destruction.
This would be the best case scenario. I don't think we will be so lucky.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-22, 00:35:53
Nice try as usual Oakdale but just about anything would be better than you have got.

I think midnight you people are I am afraid stuck with what you have for an awful long time yet  -unfortunately and ersi realises that i suspect. That the system produces Trump and Clinton is  a mess and it is all about big money i am afraid. Clinton is the lesser of the two evils and that is all that is allowed in the country. What ever may have been put out in the early days of growing was lost a long time ago and it is now that more are coming to realise that.  I would still think the media went on more about Clinton and Trump because it the money baron clique that very subtly controls that as well.

maybe one day in the future the string pullers will be overcome and I never thought I would ee the collapse of the USSR and those it controlled outside the place . Even my historical interest in pre-1917 Imperial Russia it was the case the revolutionaries felt they would never see a change in their lives.  So better if change comes in a constructive way and the dis-satisfaction of more and more frustrated and intelligent Americans is one day sorted. For a country to be limited to the big two and anyone else gets stuffed is not right nor good for everyone. Clinton will get the White House and she is a strident, self-smug, bossy that will do many Americans no damn good at all nor the world.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-22, 23:30:47
Clinton will get the White House and she is a strident, self-smug, bossy that will do many Americans no damn good at all nor the world.
But she's not as dangerous as Trump. Many of those Bolsheviks were completely naive about the the era they were helping to usher in. At first it might seem like an odd comparison between Russian communists and Trump supporters, but they have one thing in common - an angry mob mentality. But who really knows what Trump will do or why he even wants to be president? If you follow Trump's statements, they're a maze of contradictions on almost every issue and one gets the feeling he makes up them up on the fly to please whatever crowd he happens to be speaking to. One theory is that President Trump (God help us if that happens), will simply sign whatever the Republican National Committee sends him. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-23, 03:58:57
Well I would say yes is at the best the lesser of two evils. She is a very snide woman and I was not taken in by all that stage stuff she puts on as she has a built-in arrogance and smugness. It was interesting that a couple of polls illustrated a substantial minority that were not keen on her but it is either her or that man Trump. How does one explain how someone like that plays such a big part in things it is stunning. That my friend in California is so deeply embarrassed by him when I told her the stuff we get about him here is a shame. Personally on the global stage she will be a strutting in the face person and when a woman does that makes her look even less a person. Just an overall pity that things are not wider over there. I am still convinced that the large numbers of people in the country who are not doing well will not see any change in her and her stance in the world is another iffy thing.  A shame of a choice in a general way but in practical terms have to sigh that is the choice.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-23, 07:16:59
Do you know how your government is chosen, RJ? I'll bet you don't. But you can prove me wrong: Explain it to us.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-23, 20:43:01
Nice try hermit. It is a good try at bypassing your fundamental political problems so by all means try the satirical bypass boy but it is just too obvious!  :(  :P
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-23, 21:01:44
That's what I thought, RJ: You're clueless… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-24, 10:38:35
According recent pools, candidates are already matched.
(You'll see that Trump will win the elections while nobody saying that voted for him...)

From a joke directly to a nightmare, that's the near American future.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-24, 12:18:15
Don't worry. He'll say something stupid beyond belief and blow it and Hillary will remind people of his past proto-fascist statements. Even baring near certainty, he's getting a boost emerging as the Republican candidate, If Clinton wins California, she's liable to rise as well. A whole lot of Sanders supports will switch to Clinton just to keep Trump out of Oval Office. I'll be a reluctant Clinton supporter myself just to keep that bastard out of office.

Now a word on polls. I remember Gallop saying McCain was beating Obama. That was because of a sampling a sampling bias in favor of white, suburban middle-class people. Minorities pushed Obama over the top. The same thing will happen to Trump, only worse. Minorities fear him, perhaps rightly so. Here's were Oakdale might say Trump doesn't plan on doing against African Americans and perhaps/probably would be correct. That still doesn't change how people feel. Trump will especially go down in flames in states with large hispanic populations. One doesn't forget that he called you a rapist, murderer, etc. The counter argument would be Trump meant that for illegal aliens, but what people heard was him calling Mexicans (even ethnic Mexicans that were born  here that) and other minorities that. Again, these are people that are often missed in the polling.

Another problem is that computer dialed polls can't call mobile phones. That diminishes the accuracy greatly. Interesting 53 % (http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-wireless-only-households-in-america-20140708-story.html) of Hispanics don't have a landline. How this is important is among Hispanics that were able to get polled (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/21/trump-gets-crushed-among-hispanic-voters-poll/) he's getting crushed. That means Trump's numbers aren't as good as they appear and Clinton's lead is wider they it appears. Oakdale, note this a conservative source backing what I said in the previous paragraph.

So no, Trump is not going to win.

ps  I wonder if this the election that flips Texas blue? Texas is 32 percent (http://www.texas.com/demographics.html) hispanic, so it's not outside the realm of possibility.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-05-25, 00:25:04
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.damnpic.net%2Fimages%2F2016%2F05%2F25%2F6ec6737.jpg&hash=1f4672a30152243cdd96b987114e2131" rel="cached" data-hash="1f4672a30152243cdd96b987114e2131" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.damnpic.net/images/2016/05/25/6ec6737.jpg)

Blacks aren't motivated this time around.......Hillary doesn't motivate them.........they don't have a 'horse in the race' like in 2008 & 2012.

All Trump needs to do is motivate those that didn't vote in 2012......he's already leading Hillary in Independent voters (by about 16%), who comprise more voters than either political party!

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.damnpic.net%2Fimages%2F2016%2F05%2F25%2F1_A_2012_Election_Simple_Breakdown_B.jpg&hash=c1e868e2f8cc640723ed0deddd4f81e8" rel="cached" data-hash="c1e868e2f8cc640723ed0deddd4f81e8" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.damnpic.net/images/2016/05/25/1_A_2012_Election_Simple_Breakdown_B.jpg)




(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.damnpic.net%2Fimages%2F2016%2F05%2F25%2Fpartybreakdown.jpg&hash=6bf05ee545a5eda871040200329b94ba" rel="cached" data-hash="6bf05ee545a5eda871040200329b94ba" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.damnpic.net/images/2016/05/25/partybreakdown.jpg)





Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-25, 01:40:39
And throw in the time she flew to the Balkans when the warfare was on. She boasted about being lucky as they were fired at on the plane. She lied.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-05-25, 02:02:04
And throw in the time she flew to the Balkans when the warfare was on. She boasted about being lucky as they were fired at on the plane. She lied.

OMG.....no, you don't say.....surely they just misquoted her! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lolfun.gif)

And these are all mere coincidents too........Hillary is the most transparent person she knows:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uT68riwrFI[/VIDEO]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-05-25, 03:11:01
The president of the United States has to be a moral wreck. It's a requirement. You don't get to be the President otherwise.

Of course Trump has better chances than Hillary, because he is far worse.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-25, 03:31:39
Howie, you might have gotten your wish for a wider election. In a three way race between Libertarian Gary Johnson, Hillary and Mussolini Trump; Johnson gets 10 percent (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/pay-attention-to-libertarian-gary-johnson-hes-pulling-10-vs-trump-and-clinton/)Obviously, this still trails Clinton and Trump by wide margin but this could make things interesting. I don't know enough about Johnson to support him or not at this point.

Blacks aren't motivated this time around.......Hillary doesn't motivate them.........they don't have a 'horse in the race' like in 2008 & 2012.
Don't they? First of all the Clinton have always been popular among Americans Americans, this is why they voted for her instead of Sanders. Then there's the issue I raised in my previous post; Trump has upset all minorities.  You also seem to forget hispanics outnumber African Americans (by a considerable margin) and he's pissed them off royally.

Of course, there's also the electoral college. In the map below, the darker blue the higher the percentage of African Americans.


With the exception of Maryland, what do the darkest blue states have in common? They're southern Republican states that would go for who the GOP offered regardless.

So you're wrong on several accounts about "blacks" on several accounts, while ignoring that hispanics stand be the larger factor this time around.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-25, 03:45:49
The president of the United States has to be a moral wreck. It's a requirement. You don't get to be the President otherwise.

Of course Trump has better chances than Hillary, because he is far worse.
The battle to defeat Trump is nothing short of a war for America's soul. Sadly, who the Democrats have chosen as the general doesn't have much of one, either. I least, I can say she doesn't have fascists from places such as Stormfront backing her and Ku Klux Klan leaders endorsing her.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-25, 04:16:34
Now for a modest proposal. maybe we should end the United States of America if Trump wins. Culturally it's several different countries as it is. The stereotypes Belfrager and Howie offer are not America as a whole, but generally the South. So the first division would be to reconstitute the CSA (Confederate States of America) at least for the Deep South. We'll let Trump be president there and he can preside over the CSA's descent into a third world proto-theocracy without the support of the current Democratic states. Atlanta will be the capital. The major industries will be assembling products designed elsewhere on the cheap with most of those workers making ~9 bucks a hour and their best Republican minds won't be able to figure out why the consumer economy collapsed with people making those wages.

The west coast states can be a nation called Pacifica or something. San Fransisco is the capital. The big industry will be tech. Nevada can be problematic since we're our own unique libertarian culture, so there will need to be a debate over an independent Nevada or our join Pacifica.

New England as region consists of Connecticut northward. But I'd say the independent New England can have Maryland northward. New York is the capital. Major industries will be finance and healthcare.

Then we have an agricultural midwest, with Chicago as the capital.

The Jews have their own country, so why can't the Mormons have one? Of course, I mean Utah. Salt Lake City is the capital, of course. I guess the major industry is sending young men out to convert others to Mormonism so the church can collect more tithes.

We'll have a transition period when people can freely move to the new country they feel most comfortable in. For instance, if you happen to be an inbred jackass you can move to the CSA.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-25, 05:30:33
Apparently, Abe Lincoln taught you nothing, Sang… :)

Conservatives suffered through some rough years; Nixon, Carter, GHW Bush, Clinton (…but Newt Gingrich helped a lot, then!!), GW Bush, Obama… I'm pretty sure you'all can take a term or two of Trump! Suck it up, boy-o.

Or write a book of alt-history! (Turtledove is my favorite in the genre…)
In the mean time, every prediction that Trump will "say something so stupid that it kills his campaign" has left the predictors with egg on their face. Your reason for believing that now is different is mere wish-fulfillment; but you're good at that! You've lived in a fantasy world for a long time…

I do appreciate how those who tout democracy immediately reject it, when they don't get their way! Isn't populism merely another term for democracy? :)

Let the Hilde-beast and the Trumpenator get it on! Such fun! (The more squeamish "democrats" can attempt to sneak over the border to Canada; the more well-heeled can go south… :) ) But you've wanted this kind of showdown for a long time, Sang — haven't you?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-25, 07:01:19
Clinton was rough years? Why was that? All the economic growth? Turning a budget deficit in a surplus, reducing the debt as percent of GDP? I'll bet you guys cried your little eyes every night, huh? Poor little things, having America going in the right direction. But your tears ended with the advent of GW Bush and his pointless wars and banking deregulation crashed the economy, making you happy.
In the mean time, every prediction that Trump will "say something so stupid that it kills his campaign" has left the predictors with egg on their face.
Hasn't it already? Winning the GOP primary is one thing, the general election is completely different. This is just a quick reference, but here's what Gallop tells us (http://www.gallup.com/poll/190403/seven-women-unfavorable-opinion-trump.aspx) I still think Gallop has a conservative sampling bias.
[img=http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/8zooeab2ckq4vuoag1c0kq.png]http://[/img]
Is Trump continuing to lose ground among women, even among a polling group the seems to have samples a little to heavy on the conservative side?

This (http://www.gallup.com/poll/189887/trump-major-image-problem-hispanics.aspx) article by Gallop doesn't have neat graph like that, but they do have bullet points for easy reference. This last one is no longer relevant, so I'll omit that.

Quote
* Trump has 12% favorable, 77% unfavorable image among Hispanics
Quote
* Trump has become better known, but more disliked since summer

By pandering too heavily to his base, he might have already cost himself the general election with his mouth. Again, there's good chance that he got a temporary boost from being the GOP nominee. Those polls also aren't telling us if anything changed in the projected electoral college. Where did his numbers rise the most? Was it in states that would have voted for him anyway? Do we know this yet? As you well know, a close popular election can still be an electoral college landslide and Bush won an election there despite losing the popular vote.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-25, 07:24:53
Apparently, Abe Lincoln taught you nothing, Sang...
Sure he did. But so did Jonathan Swift ;) As quick historical footnote, at first it was unclear if Abe could legally prevent the south from seceding. The mistake was Confederates firing on Fort Sumter, which provided a legal grounds for declaring war.

Like alt-history books do you? Check this out. A Trump-like figure gets elected so the blue states secede. The Trump sends troops. The blue states most likely lose in the face of the Federal army, unless their tactics are brilliant. Brother against brother, families torn apart, of course. The blues regroup and start a counter-attack.

What does NATO do? An attack on one means an attack on all. What an epic story idea with international intrigue, battle field action, personal tragedy, etc.

We might even have cyber-warfare. A disproportionate amount of America's technological prowess is the blue states, so re-named Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc are enlisted in the fight. Maybe they can crash the Fed's computers, stopping the bombers and whatnot. But, oh no, the single most skilled blue hacker has family in a Federal state :( :) Worse, he disrupted the missile guidance computers (or something) and caused a disaster in his family's town and thus inadvertent killed them all.

Oh no! It turns out the election was rigged in the first place and a corrupt "Microsoft" employee hacked the voting machines, so it was all his fault and all this death and destruction was for nothing :( :D  Okay, I see I have about 1000 pages go write......  
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-25, 07:26:50
Clinton was rough years? Why was that? All the economic growth? Turning a budget deficit in a surplus, reducing the debt as percent of GDP? I'll bet you guys cried your little eyes every night, huh? Poor little things, having America going in the right direction.
After Newt engineered the resurgence of the Republicans in the House, indeed, things got much better! :)
Clinton, being a savvy politician, went along for the ride… Good times, eh? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-25, 07:31:33
Okay, I see I have about 1000 pages go write......
I've seen this sort of thing before: You have 1000 words; if you print them one to a page… :) Or did you mean I should write it? :)
(Actually, your outline was only 188 words… Thankfully, you're not as prolix as you think you are! :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-25, 09:18:52
Oh, that doesn't count as an outline. For instance, I'd need to come up with some scene that show accidentally familicidal hacker's relationship with his family so the reader can feel his pain with him, etc. Maybe his dad likes "Trump" but he think the candidate is a Nazi but family conquers all and that gay shit, until the "accident." Or the family fight leads to everybody be estranged (too obvious foreshadowing, maybe? :/ ) And why was he in the red state in the first place (and which one, because it has to be important to the story?) Just it being somebody's birthday or christmas isn't enough because then you can just call and send presents and that would be cliche' anyway.

How do these subplots relate to each other and eventually converge? So the outline itself would easily be 1000 words and I only make them very sketchy. But, no I don't think I'm prolix. In fact, I get fussed at by epic fantasy fans/writers for not doing enough world building even though I tell them it's urban fantasy and don't need that kind of detail unless it actually moves the story forward or tells something relevant to the plot about the character.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-25, 10:08:13
International politics under Trump must be funny. I suppose that half of the world leaders will even refuse to shakehands with him. Grotesque.
Basically, Kim Jong-un's blonde American version.

A suggestion, teach the man how to play harp, as for the rest he's a natural born Nero.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-25, 10:31:44
A suggestion, teach the man how to play harp, as for the rest he's a natural born Nero.
I only disagree slightly. Instead of "Nero fiddled while Rome burned" , in the future people will say "Trump boasted while American burned." Nice analogy, but the demagogue doesn't need any instruments. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-25, 10:44:30
And, yet, Sang, you don't write it… Typical liberal excuses. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-25, 11:02:49
I tell them it's urban fantasy and don't need that kind of detail unless it actually moves the story forward or tells something relevant to the plot about the character.
Of course you do!
Talking about writing is so much more fun than -you know- like, writing.

But I'm game: Perhaps we can collaborate on this one? :) (I'll try to stay sober enough to see that my spell-checker is doing a reasonably good job…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-05-25, 11:25:04
[obvious]
When the debate isn't about who's better but about who's not worse, there's no hope.
[/obvious]
(This does not apply to America only.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-25, 12:51:57
But I'm game: Perhaps we can collaborate on this one?
We'll see. I'm not brushing you off. My friend just sent me back a book that I wrote with suggestions/corrections, so I have a lot of work to do on that. My typing remains atrocious, so he had some typo suggestions but some real plot points. That's an interesting proposition, though. Maybe one night I'll crank out a real outline and send it to you.

Right now, I'm the one that's not exactly sober. I had to do to the dentist yesterday morning and needed to dull the pain, at least that's the excuse. And we're looking a month of going back every week. So that's gonna suck. If I was more sober, I wouldn't haven't have spent so time on the forums last night.

Every since the best interface (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=868.msg53333#msg53333) for writing thread, I've been thinking we need a thread about writing. For one, it's getting old arguing about the same things. You and I aren't gonna change either other's minds. It might be a forlorn hope, but maybe it will bring some fresh blood into this place


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-05-25, 18:05:53
International politics under Trump must be funny. I suppose that half of the world leaders will even refuse to shakehands with him.
I assume you are exaggerating. Aren't you? ;)
How many leaders of the world do you think would dare not to shake hands with the President of the USA?

BTW, do you think that Trump would manage to surpass Obama, the Nobel Peace Prize winner?
Quote
President Obama came into office seven years ago pledging to end the wars of his predecessor, George W. Bush. On May 6, with eight months left before he vacates the White House, Mr. Obama passed a somber, little-noticed milestone: He has now been at war longer than Mr. Bush, or any other American president.
source (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/us/politics/obama-as-wartime-president-has-wrestled-with-protecting-nation-and-troops.html?_r=0)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-25, 19:05:35
I assume you are exaggerating. Aren't you?  ;)
How many leaders of the world do you think would dare not to shake hands with the President of the USA?
Okay, wait to to see their faces while shaking hands... :)
BTW, do you think that Trump would manage to surpass Obama, the Nobel Peace Prize winner?
I think Trump if elected will not last too long.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-26, 01:07:56
And now it is being confirmed that what Clinton did with the email situation was not correct but her side is using the handy explanation that everyone did that. However what if the FBI involvement leads to impeaching, eh?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-26, 12:58:54
Sincerely, I can't comprehend how the elections at the main potency in the world are so low level be it programatically, politically, economically, strategically, whathever-lly.
Three hundred fifty million citizens are going to vote based at bit sounds and clowneries.

The political level of discussion all over the world has decayed into ridiculous levels but this is too much. That's the kind of situation that precedes totalitarian regimes, it's a sociological "perfect storm".

In face of this, Right Wing sectors (as understood in Europe) should be already urging the Army to intervene, declare martial law, the suspension of civil rights and nominate a national salvation government for the next three years.
Instead, what do they do? they vote for Trump, being accumplices of their country's destruction.

If a butterfly in China can create a tempest in Europe, imagine what a Trump in America can do.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-05-26, 13:23:01
Sincerely, I can't comprehend how the elections at the main potency in the world are so low level be it programatically, politically, economically, strategically, whathever-lly.
Three hundred fifty million citizens are going to vote based at bit sounds and clowneries.
Another thing hard to comprehend is that it's not the citizens who are voting for the President. The President is chosen by what the U.S. constitution calls "Electors". Even Americans themselves are often deluded on this point and they think the people are electing the President.

The political level of discussion all over the world has decayed into ridiculous levels but this is too much. That's the kind of situation that precedes totalitarian regimes, it's a sociological "perfect storm".
The funny feature with the U.S. presidential elections is that the campaigning goes on for two or so years, whereas in the rest of the world it's maximum half a year. This is particularly funny considering that the people actually have no vote in the matter, according to the constitution, but the people are kept under mass delusion.

If a butterfly in China can create a tempest in Europe, imagine what a Trump in America can do.
Yes. That's funny too.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-05-26, 19:16:30
In face of this, Right Wing sectors (as understood in Europe) should be already urging the Army to intervene, declare martial law, the suspension of civil rights and nominate a national salvation government for the next three years.
A military junta suspending all civil rights, that's for sure the way to go for a better future.
What you missed to add is all the above flanked by some religious and nationalistic fanatism.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-27, 01:43:27
A thing about Obama. Why the devil he got the Peace Prize prior to his position is beyond me. Anyway as for delusion that has unfortunately been a long standing indoctrination for a long time. Many people are becoming to realise that one but not enough as of yet.  Preparations take far too damn long and the whole thing is so cleverly controlled but not by the people for the people in any meaningful way.  Obama has been a mess and did little to reduce the country's interference on other countries and was worse than GW Bush who would be easy to castigate. The Constitution is frequently a conflict area and also much misused when it suits those who pull the strings. Neither of the 2 candidates is a credit to the nation at all as both are in the big money camp and although I generally like women (as many have known in my life!) an arrogant woman in a high office can become a bossy boots and she has all the credentials for that.

Hey a military dictatorship would be passable (police half way there already  :D ) but get rid of the floppy discs being used for rockets  and more modern techy stuff first!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-27, 05:20:58
A thing about Obama. Why the devil he got the Peace Prize prior to his position is beyond me.
That's what Europeans do, Howie. They drift into deep and deeper fantasy… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-05-27, 05:41:28
That's what Europeans do, Howie. They drift into deep and deeper fantasy… :)
Nobel prize to Obama was a cause of astonishment over here. And the committee itself is now ashamed of the decision.

Quote from: Nobel panel saw Obama peace prize as ‘mistake,’ new book claims, http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/16/nobel-panel-saw-obama-peace-prize-mistake-new-book/
“[We] thought it would strengthen Obama and it didn’t have this effect,” he told the Associated Press in an interview.

...

Normally the Nobel committee’s decision regarding recipients remains private, and Mr. Lundestad’s frank and revealing remarks regarding internal decisions have caused a stir in Norway, detailing the politicking and compromises that have gone into determining the annual laureate.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-27, 05:48:07
Nobel prize to Obama was a cause of astonishment over here. And the committee itself is now ashamed of the decision.
Always behind the curve… :)

The "Peace Prize" is an indication of European political trajectory. And, of course, fantasy!

Perhaps your country should remain in NATO…

Myself, I think NATO is an anachronism. I'm sure you have no fear of Soviet Russian hegemony! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-27, 10:03:18
The "Peace Prize" is an indication of European political trajectory.
Quote
the Nobel Peace Prize is awarded not by a Swedish organisation but by the Norwegian Nobel Committee.
Quote
Its five members are appointed by the Norwegian Parliament and today roughly represent the political makeup of that body.
By the way, Norway is not part of the European Union.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-27, 12:50:24
Nobel prize to Obama was a cause of astonishment over here. And the committee itself is now ashamed of the decision.
Nothing Nobel Peace Prize-related has shocked me since that terrorist Arafat got it. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-05-27, 13:11:20
The "Peace Prize" is an indication of European political trajectory. And, of course, fantasy!
No fantasy at all.
Often the Nobel committee's decisions are politically motivated. Should sound familiar to you.
As an example, years ago the award for the Nobel Prize in Literature was a bad taste joke. It passed unnoticed because few people read books and even the name of the winner is often unknown to most people.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-27, 22:13:28
Always the same thing, the Swedish/Norwegian lunatics.
Northerners not knowing what they are doing.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-05-28, 06:32:20
.......years ago the award for the Nobel Prize in Literature was a bad taste joke. It passed unnoticed because few people read books and even the name of the winner is often unknown to most people.

This sums it up in a mere nutshell......

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFrYEV07p4I[/VIDEO]

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/imthinkin6.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-05-28, 09:03:38
No fantasy at all.
Often the Nobel committee's decisions are politically motivated. Should sound familiar to you.
As an example, years ago the award for the Nobel Prize in Literature was a bad taste joke. It passed unnoticed because few people read books and even the name of the winner is often unknown to most people.

That statement should receive an RJH award for vagueness. Which one? (https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/) Rudyard Kipling?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-05-28, 10:08:27
That statement should receive an RJH award for vagueness. Which one? (https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/) Rudyard Kipling?
Herta Müller.
Does the name tell you something?
Have you read the book?
Do you feel now better informed?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-05-28, 10:20:08
Back to topic

10 ways the Democratic primary has been rigged from the start (http://www.salon.com/2016/03/30/10_ways_the_democratic_primary_has_been_rigged_from_the_start_partner/)

Quote
This race is still far from over, but that won't stop the establishment from trying to hand the nom to Hillary
Well, the article is from March 30, 2016 but we know now how it ended. The establishment did get their Billary.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53nL_aQe_ek[/video]

The above vid sums all the 'election' circus up. At least it does it the funny way and people have a good laugh.
Making fun out of the fraud seems to be the only thing people can do about. However, in a dictatorship, you aren't allowed to do even that.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-28, 12:34:28
Why to put a cave man and a housewife running for presidential elections? to elect the cave man? course not, to push the population towards the housewife arms. Anything sems better than the cave man.
Everything it's already fixed, there are no elections at all and the housewife will be the next puppet.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-28, 19:04:50
Yes an interesting point on election fraud and why is the other hard truth simply danced around. By that I mean the hundreds of thousands across the country who cannot vote. One news item I noted commented that many people could not properly identify themselves. Eh? How can armies of people in a country be like that? Puzzling.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-05-29, 13:48:08
The Republican circus is in town.
(https://noteatoday.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/trump-clown-multi-color.jpg?w=178&h=278)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-06-12, 03:09:49
Bernie's still running — in his walker… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-06-12, 11:26:30
(https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/xNYhSNHzMPE-sabbyNfjJhvIQOkZb63RH0pwl4NzflYBj-cLKGm3F4VSCVDGd9le7xf4SL-5coplJyC9SdxlwGF3NjLJ6CQ6gnHbl_iwKy_SAChRYq488KP8RQ3jKzI69katNcx51rrCrq5VW6jnex1qrYSX_eRWNMeXodglUButZVhY_frxPxaOyhOVs-0W31WAmm1JcCOJfEQSsGpEBFriHh79LcXoCnyH5nabu4wodMOIeM8QgZILZiNERpdleCut0vIJlqgDhkCZu-SiJaQ5YPKLVC-xMgVmERMDBA=s0-d-e1-ft#https://rainbowapi-a.wpdigital.net/rainbow-data-service/rainbow/image-data.is?url=http://tabletimages.washingtonpost.com/prod/0612_VoterStruggles_B_tstmp_1465689159.jpg&height=580&width=580&webp=false)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-06-12, 16:25:43
I assume that it will be Clinton, no matter where you'll put your checkmark. :D
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-06-12, 17:33:24
This was always leading down to Hillary v. Trump. I'm not as sure as I was heading into the primaries that Hillary wins... But it's still a good bet.

Jaybro's pic reminds me of what I told my son about it all when he asked. (His mom is a Trump supporter, bless her heart.) I said if I could go post an abstention, and that matter, I would.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-06-12, 17:51:54
Anyone that checks "Trump" needs to rethink. For starters, Trump insists on calling Elizabeth Warren “Pocahontas” because she has a tiny amount of Cherokee ancestry. Judge Curiel can't preside over his trial because he has Mexican heritage, according to Trump. How's someone this racist going to unit this country. How will he deal with leaders of other nations that are not white The only choice is to vote against Trump because he'll tear this country apart and make us an international pariah.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-06-12, 19:57:11
needs to rethink.
They are one step ahead of ya. Most are guilty of (re-re)thinking. lol.

I've been holding my synopsis until the nominations are final. But neither prospective candidate is detrimental to the system. Still interested to see how/if Trump swaps his game up. Hard to admit but he is either accidentally or purposefully genius in a lot of ways - but which remains to be seen. He holds the weak hand... I'll go into more details on both soon or sooner if solicited.

I've actually enjoyed watching a lot of the political types have to eat some Trump. He is exactly why what any of them say doesn't matter. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-06-12, 22:21:57
For starters, Trump insists on calling Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas" because she has a tiny amount of Cherokee ancestry.
He calls her fauxcahontas (…not an original cognomen; Trump is no kind of "originalist"… :) ) because she used her (perhaps) miniscule Amerind blood to get preferential treatment among Harvard faculty…
So, for starters and as usual, you don't know what you're talking about.
Judge Curiel can't preside over his trial because he has Mexican heritage, according to Trump.
Trump is inarticulate… (You, of all people, should have more sympathy… :) ) There are some good reasons for Trump to object to Curiel. But they should have been left to Trump's lawyers in the case to argue.
How "racist" is Trump? Dunno. Probably not as much as Obama.

So. I take it, you prefer Hillary? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-06-12, 22:48:45
The best thing that could happen to the world is to watch that Trump shit to win.
Maybe then people could realize what America is about.

Unfortunately, the Clinton woman will win. I wonder if she will follow her husband practices. Stay tuned for the next sexual episodes at the White House.
Or is it already the Black House after the last occupant?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-06-13, 07:51:55
Unfortunately, the Clinton woman will win. I wonder if she will follow her husband practices.
Highly unlikely.
I can't imagine her enjoying oral sex in the Oval Office.

:) BTW,
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffun.drno.de%2Fpics%2Fclinton%2Fhole-comparison.jpg&hash=a233b44b169c9f3a288b8b42954637f2" rel="cached" data-hash="a233b44b169c9f3a288b8b42954637f2" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://fun.drno.de/pics/clinton/hole-comparison.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-06-13, 12:01:17
Or is it already the Black House after the last occupant?
Disgusting pun... but I liked it! :D
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-06-14, 08:15:01
Please watch this Trump takedown by the great documentarian Ken Burns. Masterful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F8zCQ4YnZ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F8zCQ4YnZ8)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-06-14, 10:02:17
"I'm coming to get you!" The man scares me.
(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2016/06/RTX2FPFJ/lead_large.jpg?1465829003)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-06-14, 12:04:01
He is scary, isn't he. It's been a strange election campaign, the strangest I have seen.

I never had much patience with the American preoccupation with "likeability". I don't see any reason why we should like our politicians rather than see which of them could do a reasonably acceptable job, and implement beneficial policies. Most of us won't invite them to dinner, so what kind of monsters they may or may not be in private is not of our concern.

Successful politicians are a little sociopathic, it goes with the territory, but there is a point where mental concerns carry higher weight than political ones. I think the trinity of Trump the Candidate, Trump the Persona, and Trump the Person are one and the same, and that is a greater worry than the program, which seems to be ⅓ Democratic, ⅓ Republican, and ⅓ lunacy.

I think the US political system, set in place for a situation like this, would manage, but I am curious about the cost.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-06-14, 23:32:10
He is scary, isn't he. It's been a strange election campaign, the strangest I have seen.
I prefer much more Kim Jong-un. A natural born leader compared with such an abortion.
Americans should export him for North Korea and import the other.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-06-15, 01:18:34
It's been a strange election campaign, the strangest I have seen.
Heh, goes without saying. I wouldn't be surprise if this did come down to a dick measuring contest... Just I'm still not sure he'd win though!  :yikes:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-06-15, 03:10:17
So. I take it, you prefer Hillary
I prefer a stray cat to Trump. The mewing response to issues would make more sense than whatever Trump vomits up.
He calls her fauxcahontas
Nope. Google it. He indeed called her Pocahontas. If at one point he called Warren "Fauxahontas", he did it in addition to calling her Pocahontas (or maybe you just watched a video and thought that's what he said? If so, that's understandable since he NY accent isn't always clear.) Then he claimed she the tiny bit of Cherokee heritage to advance her career, despite the fact there's little to no evidence she did if for no reason because she has too little Cherokee blood to qualify for membership in the tribes and thus use that to prove such a status. For instance, in her law school application her race/ethnicity is listed as white. Trump talks out of his ass and you know this as well as I do.
I wouldn't be surprise if this did come down to a dick measuring contest... Just I'm still not sure he'd win though!
Nonsense. He is a dick. Being such, he's gonna fuck America and then the whole world.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-06-15, 03:26:11
Trump incorrectly claims that Omar Mateen, the man that killed 49 people in a gay club in Orlando, was born in "Afgan." Of course, Mateen was born exotic and strange Long Island, New York. I find it bizarre that his followers like him because supposedly he speaks the truth, in fact what he says turns out to be completely wrong and are most likely deliberate lies.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-06-15, 09:54:12
I wouldn't be surprise if this did come down to a dick measuring contest... Just I'm still not sure he'd win though!  :yikes:
Dick Cheney maybe? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-06-15, 10:06:56
Well he is a dick in both name and behavior :left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-06-15, 10:51:59
Are we seeing a return to reality? Washington (CNN)Hillary Clinton has a 12-point lead over Donald Trump nationally, a new Bloomberg Politics poll shows. (http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/politics/poll-hillary-clinton-leads-donald-trump/)
Quote
Clinton has 49% support to Trump's 37%, with Libertarian Gary Johnson at 9%, according to the poll of 750 likely voters. The poll was conducted Friday through Monday and released Tuesday evening, meaning many of those polled were surveyed before the Orlando terrorist attack.
Particularly damaging for Trump: 55% of those surveyed said they would never vote for him, compared to 43% who said they'd never back Clinton.

I also said Trump would say something stupid to damn his campaign. The article notes several of these. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2016-06-15, 14:02:24
I find it bizarre that his followers like him because supposedly he speaks the truth, in fact what he says turns out to be completely wrong and are most likely deliberate lies.
He speaks what his fucktard followers want to be the truth. Not that they'd know the difference.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-06-15, 19:09:14
His supporters are like NASCAR fans. 80% of them are unaware of what's going on in the race but they think being there is so awesome. Trump is all about feelings so that's actually working for him. In fact, it seems most of the people taking time to advocate against him feel the same way about him as his supporters do. That what he says matters. Now he's built relevance out of all these feelings.

IF... He reconciles with the GOP and shelves some of the stooopid things he's been saying in favor of actual issues I'll start thinking he's really got a shot. The problem is in the position he's put himself that's not going to be that hard.  :nervous: 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-06-16, 15:11:14
Based on the state of the presidential race in April rather than actual factions in the political parties, which would be more interesting. That the Democratic party were to be split in two and the Republicans into three parties seems about right though.

 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck8pfo9WUAIZnSD.jpg)

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-06-18, 03:20:36
Thankfully, we don't have a parliamentary system! :) Incoherence isn't really a virtue, you know? We'll get back to a 2-party system soon, I think.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-06-18, 10:19:32
Trump has short fingers. And we know what that means! :yikes:
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffreebeacon.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2FTrump-fingers-540x358.jpg&hash=c02c2be1c64fd18fec53fa84b950a013" rel="cached" data-hash="c02c2be1c64fd18fec53fa84b950a013" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Trump-fingers-540x358.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-06-21, 11:44:06
I suggest that this is the sort of thing The Donald would post.
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13512161_265352603820586_468990301208398927_n.jpg?oh=e615f3e8a55c32783fe8eddef69a9f29&oe=57CBB7CD)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-06-21, 13:42:31
Of course. This way the beaver won't get fleas all over the place, even if becomes strange looking as a result.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-06-22, 07:56:41
Why isn’t the assassination attempt on Donald Trump bigger news? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/21/why-isnt-the-assassination-attempt-on-donald-trump-bigger-news/)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-06-24, 13:41:55
Anybody want to buy a Trump magazine?
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Frlv.zcache.com%2Fdonald_trump_make_america_dumb_again_poster-ra5eca34a5fee41f693f544f8462476a4_vevj5_8byvr_324.jpg&hash=2e0581601e1adccd5080b204ea9a2110" rel="cached" data-hash="2e0581601e1adccd5080b204ea9a2110" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://rlv.zcache.com/donald_trump_make_america_dumb_again_poster-ra5eca34a5fee41f693f544f8462476a4_vevj5_8byvr_324.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-06-24, 16:23:16
Not to worry. You probably already his campaign is broke, is approval numbers are in a downward spiral. See, Oakdale, I told you he would say something stupid to cost himself the election, it just not have been what was expected. It might have been that he would self-finance his election, although his complete idiocy after Orlando (and other jackassery) didn't help. Those that think Trump is a symptom of America gone off the tracks, someone like him was the inevitable conductor of that crazy train of a political party, the Republicans. I'm not joking, the GOP has lost its mind. A party that demeans any complaints of racism and sexism as mere PC, will get a racist, sexist candidate that will alienate most of the country in short order, especially once his novelty wears off. A party fit for the asylum will get a candidate fit for the asylum.

Trump is such a bad candidate that I've read conspiracy theory that he's actually a Manchurian one - a plant there to lose so Hillary can become president (until recently most of his political money went to Democrats.... (http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/07/28/426888268/donald-trumps-flipping-political-donations) I don't really believe this, but it's an interesting idea.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-06-24, 16:33:00
Here's a little more on the Manchurian candidate theory (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/06/21/daily-202-is-trump-a-manchurian-candidate-or-maybe-the-1919-chicago-white-sox/57689ffd981b92a22d2421e1/)
Quote
THE BIG IDEA: Salman Rushdie floated last fall that Donald Trump is a Democratic plant whose ultimate goal is to get Hillary Clinton elected president. To many conservatives, this feels less and less facetious.

The presumptive GOP nominee has spent the past few weeks doing almost everything you would do if you were trying to throw an election, from attacking a federal judge over his Mexican heritage to not building a serious ground game or actively raising the money necessary to wage a credible campaign for the presidency.


Sadly, the Manchurian Trump conspiracy theory doesn't appear to have been developed enough to be as fun as it could be :( There is the fact that he hasn't raised much money, but his supporters were sold on the idea that he would finance (He's rich!) and he's offended many of the big donors.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-06-24, 18:17:23
Not to worry. You probably already his campaign is broke, is approval numbers are in a downward spiral.

Hope it's not time to start worrying. He hasn't needed money with all the free air time he's gotten saying crazy things. If he reconciles with the GOP he can bring big contributors back in line while 'showing' he is good at negotiating like he said. If that also shelves his dumb positions on things he could turn it around. I just hope not.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-06-25, 01:10:42
True, you actually don't need a lot of money to keep your polls sinking.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKCN0ZA3KG
Quote
The June 20-24 poll showed that 46.6 percent of likely American voters supported Clinton while 33.3 percent supported Trump. Another 20.1 percent said they would support neither candidate.

That's not the interesting part of the article, though.

Quote
Meanwhile, Republican leaders including House of Representatives Speaker Paul Ryan and Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker continued to express reservations about their new standard bearer, who has angered some in the party with his fiery rhetoric.

Ryan and Walker both said over the past week that they felt Republicans should follow their "conscience" when deciding to support the party's likely nominee, instead of urging party members to support him.

I think that speaks for itself...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-06-25, 12:24:01
Have any of you heard Trump's latest?

"“I’ve been rude, rotten and repulsive throughout my personal and business life. I sincerely regret this, and the way my unpalatable proclivities have spilled into my thuggish political campaign. Unlike my trademark hair, my racism has not been thinly veiled but central to my dubious success. My nudge-nudge dislike of blacks and my 110-decibel detestation of Mexicans and Muslims won support from many of the nastiest elements in this nation – from the Ku Klux Klan to rabid anti-Semites. And my plan to build the Great Wall of Trump across our southern borders has alienated global opinion. I have been seen as a nasty hybrid of Berlusconi and Putin. But a long, private audience with Pope Francis has changed everything. I am withdrawing from the race for the White House, shaving off my silly comb-over and joining a silent order of Benedictine monks”."

I got this from a friend in the Trump palace. Please keep it to yourself until Trump makes it public.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-06-25, 12:31:06
Trump on religion. You might not know that he's a very religious man.
(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/06/toles6-26-16.0001.jpg&w=1484)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-07-01, 14:26:20
Speaking of failed election plans, London has lost its candidate for the mayoralty, Bad Boris, the UK's Trump.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.londonlovesbusiness.com%2Fpictures%2F462xAny%2F1%2F4%2F5%2F20145_Boris-Johnson-wins-seat-MP.jpg&hash=324fbc51867474d7ffdbd8eedf27ee39" rel="cached" data-hash="324fbc51867474d7ffdbd8eedf27ee39" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/pictures/462xAny/1/4/5/20145_Boris-Johnson-wins-seat-MP.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-07-02, 06:28:24
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fstarecat.com%2Fcontent%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgudjohnsen-bad-johnson-boris-iceland.jpg&hash=846ef4a5fa27978fbfc6e3c0ddaa6930" rel="cached" data-hash="846ef4a5fa27978fbfc6e3c0ddaa6930" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/gudjohnsen-bad-johnson-boris-iceland.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-07-02, 17:23:53
I like Bad Johnson, but I like your post even more! :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:
(That's a three beer cheer)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-07-02, 19:11:52
Wow, that's a lot! :wizard:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-07-08, 13:04:50
More on the '16 election.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bikersfortrump2016.com%2Fuploads%2F6%2F9%2F6%2F1%2F6961503%2F5891571.png&hash=cae6a777ae2263e1a863ac48a4a0d399" rel="cached" data-hash="cae6a777ae2263e1a863ac48a4a0d399" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.bikersfortrump2016.com/uploads/6/9/6/1/6961503/5891571.png)
And then there's this gem about Making America Grate Again.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/liza-larregui/why-donald-trump-will-make-america-grate-again_b_9638356.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/liza-larregui/why-donald-trump-will-make-america-grate-again_b_9638356.html)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-09, 01:33:24
And what about Corporate Clinton? She denied some email matters between her own system and the government ones yet the FBI boss had to admit she was wrong. Whatever the Founding Fathers had perhaps thought about hasn't materialised yet.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-09, 03:27:20
Ah, Mr. Howie :cheers: Clinton may be corporate and all that, but how is that different from Trump? Yes, it seems she was wrong in using a private server, but not criminally so. I know you're not a fan of Trump either, so let me say that he's precisely the wrong man at the wrong time. Right now racial tensions are increasing in the US in no small part thanks to police gunning down black men, some might have been exactly innocent, but were far from deserving of death. Now the police are being targeted. Here's a link to a CNN article about the officers killed in Dallas (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/08/like-a-little-war-snipers-shoot-11-police-officers-during-dallas-protest-march-killing-five/) in case you haven't heard yet.

Let me explain how this relates to Trump. He's is the man that inflames racial tensions in the name of not being politically correct, often by not being factually correct either. The violence between officers and black people (yes, Oakdale including black people targeting police as well....) will only escalate under Trump. He'll encourage shakedowns of black people and probably hispanics as well, which will foster more resentment and create more incidents of violence. Even his rhetoric at rallies incited violence between whites and minorities. Of course, I'm not blaming Trump for those officers getting shot. What I am saying this that what he'll do and say will lead to more incidents like this.

I have every confidence in Trump's ability to rip this country apart along racial and ethnic lines. This is not an endorsement of Clinton. This is keep Trump the hell out of the White House. I don't know that Clinton can heal America's wounds, but at least she won't keep picking and scratching at them.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-09, 04:50:31
I guess in summary, it's better to have someone "corporate" than an insane moron like Trump.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-10, 01:57:54
Trump vows to protect Article XII of the constitution. (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-hell-protect-constitutions-article-xii/story?id=40422352). Okay, he actually vowed to  The only problem is there are only seven articles to the US constitution, His jackass supporters don't care about his total ignorance, however. Maybe he meant the 12 amendment, which is the procedure for electing the president even though that was never under threat?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-10, 02:15:43
I think in assessing midnight that the problem is in a true to life fact that the electoral system does need a kind of revolution. Clinton got two six figure sums from the banking sector was it for two talks. What is a sadness is that someone like Trump can get so far in a civilised society. One commentator recently thought it was touching on my feeling that it is the frustration of so many people on he actual system.  My former Glasgow friend living in California for decades as I indicated is totally embarrassed by Trump in the running. Clinton if I stretch it is the lesser of two evils but also sadly will not be an answer. On the global stage i feel she will be strident and confrontational and internally with all the stress on the economy the overinflated military budget, unemployment and the large numbers of unemployed make no difference. Just a pity that sanders impressive advance was not some time ago and when he is as now limited by age. That so many young people were taken by him and ignored the big money freedom of the Republicans and the democrats.

If only there was in hard practice a far wider political framework like other progressive nations it would be far better. Trump may shockingly get in the late 30% corner in votes which is bad but Clinton will win and I am afraid that all those thinking and progressive minded Americans who want to see genuine and wider progress will be disappointed.  There are many, many Americans who must be frustrated and on a passing note that there is no limit on spending for the Presidential does not help. At the same time that so many were taken on by Senator Sanders was progressive and valued thing but the money is not there and with only Clinton to get stuck with as Trump is a complete bampot and a damnable disgrace to the decents. So yep she will win but she will have a job containing her arrogance, etc and locally ang globally not be a great help. So trump will be dead in the water but how someone like that could get to this stage is a deep and  sad matter to so many decent people.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-10, 06:20:14
I'd expect, Howie, that your own "wider" democracy would trouble you more — what with Brexit, and all. But I'd be wrong, of course.
Schadenfreude is the only pleasure left to one like you… :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-11, 02:55:37
Yes you are wrong. Trump would get laughed at and be nowhere and corporate Clinton likewise.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-11, 04:45:33
But Great Briton is out of the EU, and Scotland is reconsidering leaving the "united" Kingdom… Your Prime Minister has resigned, and those who'd step up are —well, shall we say, back-benchers? :)
It's true, Europeans laugh at Americans. Will they still laugh when our money doesn't flow to them?

I wish Great Briton well, and Europe too — as a whole. But you "first-worlders" need a reality check!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-07-11, 08:29:26
It's true, Europeans laugh at Americans. Will they still laugh when our money doesn't flow to them?
Indeed it would be a disaster.  :o
Hard to imagine: No more 'painted' revolutions, no more bribery of corrupt politicians abroad, less meddling in internal affairs of foreign countries, less puppets,...

I wish Great Briton well, and Europe too — as a whole. But you "first-worlders" need a reality check!
Taking lessons from our great role models like G.W. Bush, B. Obama, H. Clinton or D. Trump?  :left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-07-11, 20:03:45
It's true, Europeans laugh at Americans. Will they still laugh when our money doesn't flow to them?
Indeed it would be a disaster.  :o
Hard to imagine: No more 'painted' revolutions, no more bribery of corrupt politicians abroad, less meddling in internal affairs of foreign countries, less puppets,...
Come now @krake , it's been going on since the late 1800's when @rjhowie 's ancestors and the English were directing them. Surely you don't want the torch to pass from the unruly eldest son of the UK to..........the Aussies and @tt92 ?   :yikes:

Or even........the French?  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

But let's be honest; even if we weren't directing it, someone else would. "The  :devil:  you know and all that."   :left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-12, 01:33:15
Well excuse me sonny. The BRITISH Empire was very much supervised administration wise by Scots as it happens. Shows the intelligence lack in skipping what the great America does in the world interfering, de-stabilising those it doesn't like or finding an excuse to invade them an use the places as part of a global financial empire. At the same time when you see the way America is run, political and moral corruption is a tradition over there. In our colonies legal situations were set up and were progressive and not laden with corruption like the US empire - and the country itself.

You poor folk cannot even run your own nation properly. The situation of two corporate parties makes no damn difference to the tens of millions of poor the violent society (especially if black), immoral police and people who cannot get their health dealt with.  Going back deep into history on somewhere else because you cannot argue on the present mess your own place is in does not say much for education  over there! Mind you on a lesser note you have one advantage in that you cannot be called a Yank so yippee for that.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-07-12, 03:29:39
Well excuse me sonny. The BRITISH Empire was very much supervised administration wise by Scots as it happens. Shows the intelligence lack in skipping what the great America does in the world interfering, de-stabilising those it doesn't like or finding an excuse to invade them an use the places as part of a global financial empire. At the same time when you see the way America is run, political and moral corruption is a tradition over there. In our colonies legal situations were set up and were progressive and not laden with corruption like the US empire - and the country itself.

You poor folk cannot even run your own nation properly. The situation of two corporate parties makes no damn difference to the tens of millions of poor the violent society (especially if black), immoral police and people who cannot get their health dealt with.  Going back deep into history on somewhere else because you cannot argue on the present mess your own place is in does not say much for education  over there! Mind you on a lesser note you have one advantage in that you cannot be called a Yank so yippee for that.
Couple of notes here:

1. Thank you kindly for being quite correct in your last sentence! :cheers:  ( <-- Diet Irn Bru )

2. Yes, I am quite aware of the Scottish influence on the BE, hence why I gave your lot credit first, then the English. :)

3. Please do carry on cottoning on about how we can't run our nation, when your lot have just had a complete and utter national AND political collapse, are facing an inevitable and impending economic collapse, and your youth and other young are fleeing the UK's shores just as fast as they can. They are fleeing to Europe, here, Canada, etc.

4. Corresponding to #4, tell me more about that educational divide that is apparently also lacking in Scotland, being as how you are turning a blind eye to the final death throes of a once great and proud UNITED union of nations, which will cease to exist in two years time or sooner, as your Scotland and N. Ireland will be leaving England and Wales at the conclusion (or before) Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is concluded by PM May. :sherlock: .

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Wz8ig2y9Y[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-12, 08:04:08
There's a reason the Scots are now all but forgotten… (But their early intellectual lights still shine, over here. Although they're rejected by the "enlightened" modern Scot! :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-12, 08:20:34
At the same time when you see the way America is run, political and moral corruption is a tradition over there. In our colonies legal situations were set up and were progressive and not laden with corruption like the US empire - and the country itself.
Okay, Howie. In your previous post you were largely correct about the poor state of the American electoral system. I mean with a nation the size of the US, the best we can come up with for presidential candidates is Clinton and Trump (Gary Johnson is running for the Libertarian Party and I've seen polls showing him at 10% but  doubt that will actually translate into 10% of the votes.)

But what's happening with UK? Brexit and now Scotland threatens to leave the UK for the second time in two years, with a stronger case this time around. Something is going very wrong on your side of the pond as well.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-12, 08:36:55
Something is going very wrong on your side of the pond as well.
It's called "democracy," Sang. It has a long history, that they don't bother to teach in schools anymore…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-07-12, 10:27:17
Come now @krake , it's been going on since the late 1800's when @rjhowie 's ancestors and the English were directing them. Surely you don't want the torch to pass from the unruly eldest son of the UK to..........the Aussies and @tt92 ?  :yikes:

No, I don't. Not even to today's UK. It would be unfair to blame present generations for what happened in the past.
At the same time the past shouldn't be used as a pretext or even an excuse for present 'misbehaviour'.
E.g. it would be insane to blame T. Blair for what happened centuries ago but for things that happened under his administration he would deserve to face the criminal court. I'm not naive and I know that it won't happen. Otherwise, T. Blair is just an example among several...

But let's be honest; even if we weren't directing it, someone else would.
Quite possibly. But would the above statement also qualify as a valid pretext or even as an excuse for a fool's license?
BTW, that's also the reason I'd favor a multipolar world.

"The  :devil:  you know and all that."  :left:
I know, the :devil:, it's us. Part of the human nature, a shortcoming of His creation. We have to deal with it. :)

------------


:) As for Amy Macdonald:
[video]https://youtu.be/hyrcQCYcn08[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-13, 03:01:17
Nice Glasgow touch there - of course!

Southern boy you really are getting too near to being like Oakdale so watch out. Collapse? What rubbish and typical of his mindset. The Prime Minister intended to go later this year but stepped down as he lost the Referendum. Fair enough and the Conservatives narrowed down to 2 with one standing down and Mr May would have won that anyway so she wil be off to Buckingham palace to be sworn in; It is the Labour Party in a mes that is all. The House of Commonsis far more representative than your joke on ther 'Hill and only one party is cracking.

On another level the Empire was part of history so came and went but the Commonwealth has dozens of countries in it and something your lot could never have done. Instead you have a hopeless system run by money and people are increasingly getting strained by it hence the surprising support for Sanders. Equally but although an idiot look at the support trump gets. He would get nowhere here and he is a total embarrassment and in theory a nutcase who could endanger the world. So going back to the thread as you and others who do not support either the Republicans or democrats are left in a corner whereas our parliament covers both national and regional representatives. Whatever the would-be intention of your founding posh lot had centuries ago it was lost a long time ago.  So having been brained from an early age about being propagated by the greatest place in the world mentality and flags everywhere except the toilet it is I suppose in being fair you cannot help being passingly funny but a damnable indictment reacting as you do. Imagine a "progressive country" having a man like Trump as one of two possibles to be Head of State (along with only 2 parties) and official war starter! Hahha, it is funny but an indictment of the mess.

Visited the place twice years ago but glad I don't live in it as it is a paper democracy!  :faint:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-13, 08:56:47
Back to the election and away from reading about about the British Empire through rose tinted glasses, Sanders has endorsed Hillary. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36777424) What choice did he have? He lost the primary so it's either her or a quasi-fascist madman.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-15, 02:43:53
Oh heavens an ex-colonist waxing on rose coloured specs, haha!

There will be those amongst the young who flocked to Sanders who are not so happy because they feel done in. She will win the election but the points I make midnight raccoon about it making no difference to millions inside the country will be shown and I am afraid in the world another dangerous stirrer.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-07-15, 15:11:08
'Open carry' gun law gives Cleveland a headache for Republican convention (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/14/open-carry-gun-law-cleveland-republican-convention)

Quote
Prohibited items range from glass bottles to lengths of rope and knives, and from tennis balls to lasers, gas masks, sledgehammers and drones, according to a list issued by the Cleveland authorities. Umbrellas with sharp tips are banned. So are pellet guns. But ordinary guns and bullets must be permitted if legally toted, because of an Ohio (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ohio) law that carrying a firearm is not prohibited.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-07-15, 15:54:30
Nice Glasgow touch there - of course!

Southern boy you really are getting too near to being like Oakdale so watch out. Collapse? What rubbish and typical of his mindset. The Prime Minister intended to go later this year but stepped down as he lost the Referendum. Fair enough and the Conservatives narrowed down to 2 with one standing down and Mr May would have won that anyway so she wil be off to Buckingham palace to be sworn in; It is the Labour Party in a mes that is all. The House of Commonsis far more representative than your joke on ther 'Hill and only one party is cracking.

On another level the Empire was part of history so came and went but the Commonwealth has dozens of countries in it and something your lot could never have done. Instead you have a hopeless system run by money and people are increasingly getting strained by it hence the surprising support for Sanders. Equally but although an idiot look at the support trump gets. He would get nowhere here and he is a total embarrassment and in theory a nutcase who could endanger the world. So going back to the thread as you and others who do not support either the Republicans or democrats are left in a corner whereas our parliament covers both national and regional representatives. Whatever the would-be intention of your founding posh lot had centuries ago it was lost a long time ago.  So having been brained from an early age about being propagated by the greatest place in the world mentality and flags everywhere except the toilet it is I suppose in being fair you cannot help being passingly funny but a damnable indictment reacting as you do. Imagine a "progressive country" having a man like Trump as one of two possibles to be Head of State (along with only 2 parties) and official war starter! Hahha, it is funny but an indictment of the mess.

Visited the place twice years ago but glad I don't live in it as it is a paper democracy!  :faint:
1. Nonsense, Mr. Howie. The Pig Fornicator and worst UK PM in recent history had stated he wanted to step down in 2017, not 2016. Kindly don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. Not only did I do an in-depth study of you lot's politics when I was over there, I scored the highest on the semester-ending exam with full-marks and bonus points. Furthermore, I remain in contact with friends of mine involved in politics over there, from the Labour lot, Tories, and even the Lib Dems.

2. I will say that the Tories have put on a good public face, but one has to wonder if they truly have reconciled?

3. Good that you aren't denying the high level of involvement that the Scots had in he BE. Kenya and Ireland will never forget for sure.

4. On another note, I do want to know your take on Mrs. May, as it is well known she is a Type 1 Diabetic. Do you think as a result, education about diabetes and it's treatment will improve under her watch?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-16, 02:00:13
Did Newt jump the shark? :)

Former Speaker of the House of Representatives Newt Gingrich said:
Quote
“Let me be as blunt and direct as I can be. Western civilization is in a war. We should frankly test every person here who is of a Muslim background, and if they believe in Shari‘a, they should be deported,” Gingrich said in an interview Thursday on Fox News. “Shari‘a is incompatible with Western civilization. Modern Muslims who have given up Shari‘a, glad to have them as citizens. Perfectly happy to have them next door.”
(source (http://time.com/4407756/newt-gingrich-muslims-sharia-law/))
I've been saying this for years… (But you'all know me!)
Since Gingrich has not been selected as Trump's VP running-mate, he may have been freed to argue he'd be a good Secretary of State!

He'd get an enthusiastic nod from me. How about you?
(French citizens and their neighbors are excused from answering — a period of mourning is what civilized people expect and accept; including Muslims. Is Newt wrong? Most Muslims aren't jihadists, but all those who yearn for Shari'a would be, if they could. Well, they're supposed to… Should we allow them into our homeland? You know, Dar al Harb…  )

BTW: I assume that the U.S. will be the last bastion of western civilization… :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-16, 02:31:17
Usual junk form the grey clad boy - of course. One has to realise what country he was educated in of course so understandable. Interesting he singles out Kenya and Ireland. Since they got independence Kenya been a mess and may I also remind that Ireland (not all of it for his limited education) was not independent) was crawling for decades unable to do much on itself until it rushed to join the EU and like other smalle places like Portugal and Greece the begging bowl was out.  Ireland is now getting back on it's pa feet and WE loaned it 7 billion to help by the way. Tell you what boy you try and form a Commonwealth on all the places you hce invaded, warred or economically taken over.  Yes the British PM was going to stand down before the next General Election but as had been so strong for being IN felt in principle the right thing to do. When you get a principled President I will send you a crate of Irn Bru but th cost of that is permanently safe. The new Prime minister nd cabinet has been quick, good and a future.

Now having as Americans normally do in this damn forum and unable to face things that are so obviously wrong in their own corner may I emphasise the thread and the wonky thing that passes for "democracy in gun totin' nutjobland.

Just look at the choice over there. A man that is unbelievable being one of 2 challenges for leadership of a country that sticks it's neb into everyone else's business and affairs.  Trump has not only been an embarrassment to sensible and concerned people who exist over there but made the country an almost laughing stock in the world at large which is a damn shame. Clinton is a hawk and will be too on the world stage. The senator who was being directly different even if behind comes out and publicly endorses that lying hawk of a woman? Many especially of the younger generation have been let down by that after all he stood for in the world of overdue change.

Do I wish tht America had a wider system than 2 major money controlled parties? Yes, I dashed well do and you Southern ladie must be frustrated too as you are not of either of the two. Instead of desperately diverting off unable to face the problems use the grey cells.

Meantime that yakky hawkish woman will win but what a joke the Presidential race has been. When Obama goes he will not be historically a champion but fits in well with the tradition.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-16, 02:36:52
rohibited items range from glass bottles to lengths of rope and knives, and from tennis balls to lasers, gas masks, sledgehammers and drones, according to a list issued by the Cleveland authorities. Umbrellas with sharp tips are banned. So are pellet guns. But ordinary guns and bullets must be permitted if legally toted, because of an Ohio (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ohio) law that carrying a firearm is not prohibited.
So you can walk in with an AR15 but not a knife. Such is the genius of GOP policy. If the Dallas shootings should tell the Republicans anything, it's that somebody walking around with a weapon like that is up to no good... Of course, for everybody else it was always common sense.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-16, 02:40:11
Now having as Americans normally do in this damn forum and unable to face things that are so obviously wrong in their own corner
Howie, we know things are wrong here. I know, perhaps more than you, there are deep problems over here. My critique of  you is that you turn a blind eye when it comes to problems in your own country.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-16, 04:38:49
I was once stopped, for walking down the street after dark carrying a soft-cased pool stick… I, of course, complied with the officers' request to lay it on the sidewalk and step back. They "inspected" it and let me go on my way. (It was a Smelke, a pretty good cue! But I don't think they would have shot me, unless I resisted their legal orders…)
it's that somebody walking around with a weapon like that is up to no good...
Did someone -anyone- call it in?
This is the second "event" recently where Homeland Security had vetted the shooters and found them to be A-okay. (It is the Obama administration, however. You know, where Maj. Hassan committed "work-place violence"…)
I assume your point, Sang, is that guns should be confiscated… (It's only "common sense": Only government agents should be allowed to use lethal force! BTW: Tell that to the Black Lives Matter nut-cases!) How would that happen? :)
Your fantasies are not good grounds for fashioning policy. Or for amending the Constitution…
You know how that can be accomplished. Why don't you try it?

p.s. @Sang:
Howie doesn't turn a blind eye… He —like you— is eyeless in Gaza, at least in your own minds.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-07-16, 08:49:41
Is Newt wrong? Most Muslims aren't jihadists, but all those who yearn for Shari'a would be, if they could. Well, they're supposed to…
A terrible misunderstanding of Shari'a there. Newt is wrong and so are you.

By "they're supposed to..." you mean of course that Muslims are supposed to blow themselves up and behead people. They are only supposed to do that if they take Shari'a literally (like Jews should take Tanakh literally) and there's a crusade on them. And blowing oneself up is questionable even then, because it's not in Shari'a. Suicide attack viewed as heroism is more likely an influence of Hollywood movies. (E.g. Aliens, Leon, Independence Day; surely there are better examples, but I am not too familiar with earlier American war propaganda).

Then there's the fact that there's a fairly wide-spread non-literal understanding of Shari'a, such as among Sufis. Tanakh prescribes animal sacrifices, but Jews haven't done it for millennia now. Are they supposed to? Looks like you are telling them what they are supposed to do...

I assume your point, Sang, is that guns should be confiscated… (It's only "common sense": Only government agents should be allowed to use lethal force! ...)
What if the point is to behave civilised? In civilised countries there are hunters and gun sports practitioners who can obtain guns. And both categories are construed broadly. You don't have to be a professional hunter or professional sportsman, just announce your interest in it. And there's a test, similar to driver's license test, to see if you can handle guns. Driving a car may be mostly a necessity, but not everybody can do it. Some persons are dangerous behind a wheel under all circumstances, and all people are dangerous under some circumstances, such as when drunk. Why can't similar considerations apply to guns? Why are guns a "right" when cars are not?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-16, 11:41:09
My point midnight raccoon is that nowhere is 100% but your country's system is unfortunately  one of the unfortunate contradictions. In that I mean there is much boasting about how great the place is and things like democracy, rights, freedoms and so on. Yet at the same time so much contradicts that as I do understand you know.. As for the electoral system it is in a very deep need of a new revolution and because of the money barons your democracy has been hijacked for far too long and because it is being perpetuated wide open for the sad matter of being ridiculed.  Here we are in one sense more fortunate in having a wider political corner whatever routine faults there may be. Your Presidential election is in itself important as America unfortunately sticks it's nose into far too much across the world both politically and militarily. Some time ago I referred to President Eisenhower who decades ago warned Americans of the increasing power of big business and money people and he was a Republican! He has been proved right. Here the top 1% cover almost 25% of the government income and because most political parties are involved in parliament and all it's Standing Committees there is a vast difference in comparisons.

In the States you are stuck with 2 big money parties and the percentages of the wealthy whoo control things on the Hill are disproportionate. The dilemma has got stark as I stick to the thread (!) in that the 2 running for the top job are both big corporate minds and the vast numbers who are not doing well in the country are not getting anywhere hence frustration. Trump is an idiot and yet is a runner. Clinton is a hawk a corporate corner and for all the hype she comes out with tens of millions will still be stuck in a rut. Sanders was a refreshing change to the election but dimes against dollars.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-07-16, 16:03:57
Usual junk form the grey clad boy - of course. One has to realise what country he was educated in of course so understandable. Interesting he singles out Kenya and Ireland. Since they got independence Kenya been a mess and may I also remind that Ireland (not all of it for his limited education) was not independent) was crawling for decades unable to do much on itself until it rushed to join the EU and like other smalle places like Portugal and Greece the begging bowl was out.  Ireland is now getting back on it's pa feet and WE loaned it 7 billion to help by the way. Tell you what boy you try and form a Commonwealth on all the places you hce invaded, warred or economically taken over.  Yes the British PM was going to stand down before the next General Election but as had been so strong for being IN felt in principle the right thing to do. When you get a principled President I will send you a crate of Irn Bru but th cost of that is permanently safe. The new Prime minister nd cabinet has been quick, good and a future.

Now having as Americans normally do in this damn forum and unable to face things that are so obviously wrong in their own corner may I emphasise the thread and the wonky thing that passes for "democracy in gun totin' nutjobland.

Just look at the choice over there. A man that is unbelievable being one of 2 challenges for leadership of a country that sticks it's neb into everyone else's business and affairs.  Trump has not only been an embarrassment to sensible and concerned people who exist over there but made the country an almost laughing stock in the world at large which is a damn shame. Clinton is a hawk and will be too on the world stage. The senator who was being directly different even if behind comes out and publicly endorses that lying hawk of a woman? Many especially of the younger generation have been let down by that after all he stood for in the world of overdue change.

Do I wish tht America had a wider system than 2 major money controlled parties? Yes, I dashed well do and you Southern ladie must be frustrated too as you are not of either of the two. Instead of desperately diverting off unable to face the problems use the grey cells.

Meantime that yakky hawkish woman will win but what a joke the Presidential race has been. When Obama goes he will not be historically a champion but fits in well with the tradition.
1. Interesting take on Kenya there, dear Scot. You constantly moan and complain about our interference elsewhere in the world, yet knowing your posting persona, and I know it well, with your remark about Kenya, it is clear that you'd like to "step back in and restore order"....hmm? You'll deny this of course, but we all know ya better than that old fella. :)

2. Indeed, I was educated both here in the US and in Liverpool, England, UK. Are you claiming that the UK too doesn't educat it's ppl properly?

3. We do not want a Commonwealth. As old as you are, surely you remember when Franklin D. Roosevelt told Churchill that "we are all in this together now, but makes no mistake, we are not here to save British Imperialism"?

4. Cameron stated his was going to step down in 2017. Being the arrogant, pompous, entitled prick he is, he knew, just knew that the British public would bail him out of a party predicament that goes all the way back to the Iron Witch and beyond, back to Heath's decision to join the EEC. His disconnect with the British public cut short his administration a year early. Good riddance, but I'm not sure Mrs. May is much better.

5. I'll be holding you to that promise, Mr Howie! :cheers:

6. I am indeed frustrated, but that has stepped up my efforts in trying to get ppl to vote for either Gary Johnson, the Libertarian Candidate, or Jill Stein, the Green party candidate. My conscience remains clean from 2012, as I voted for Johnson then too.

7. Should you pop back over here at some time, I'd be more than happy to show you my collection of handguns, shotguns, rifles, and even a cannon ball I have from the Civil War!

8. You never did answer my question about Mrs. May; given that she is a Type 1 Diabetic, do you think that diabetes awareness and education will improve?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-16, 17:20:36
6. I am indeed frustrated, but that has stepped up my efforts in trying to get ppl to vote for either Gary Johnson, the Libertarian Candidate, or Jill Stein, the Green party candidate. My conscience remains clean from 2012, as I voted for Johnson then too.
My friends and I were discussing the poor choice of candidates at work, so I informed Kevin about Gary Johnson. There's a growing liberation movement within the LGBT community since the root of the problems, such as idiocy such as NC HB2, stems from the religious using the power of big government (even on state and local scales) to impose their religious beliefs on everyone else.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-17, 00:52:52
Being diabetic colonel I do hope that health issue improves so well done you.

On a more sensible note it is good that there are Americans who have realisation about the narrowness and limitation sin the political gameplay and that IS a healthy sign. You folk do need to be able to have a wider situation than being stuck with and eventually be able to challenge the matter of being stuck with 2 choices from 2 giants who are beyond it. Both you and midnight are wise enough to want to aid the frustration that in fact a great many over there feel about choice and being optimistic is not to be hidden but continue to be acted upon. That you had a politician who jilted so many and particularly the young is something to be proud of and what a change that is from being stuck with just a couple of big money people time after time. Empires and systems come and go and it is time for practicality and better choice. One day the matter of hope must be realised before more suffer from the dearth of proper political working for people. Keep at it boys and don't let the need challenge go like when you come out of the youth years as that is what the big two would be happy for.

ps. Colonel if I ever came over again would maybe wear a grey suit........
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-23, 10:18:06
I now support Trump. I am flip-flopping! :yes:

(https://i0.wp.com/cthulhuforamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/160516-nevertrump-1.jpg?resize=1080%2C675&ssl=1])

As you can see, there is now proof that Cthulhu controls Trump, explaining that latter's insanity. This being the case, I must now embrace the madness by voting Trump. Fhtagn!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-07-24, 09:44:35
I can't tell if Cthulhu controls Trump but it's now fact (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/wikileaks-emails-democratic-officials-plotted-to-expose-bernie-sanders-as-an-atheist-a7151476.html) that the Democratic National Committee - a supposedly neutral organisation, is anything except neutral.
Quote
The Sanders campaign for months complained that people in the DNC were biased in favour of the establishment candidate, Ms Clinton. The campaign even sued the DNC to allow it access to its voter database.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-24, 11:10:55
How can a country have a Trump running for the top office??
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-25, 07:47:16
The Sanders campaign for months complained that people in the DNC were biased in favour of the establishment candidate, Ms Clinton. The campaign even sued the DNC to allow it access to its voter database.
But who didn't know that? The RNC themselves were in favor that party's establishment candidates. Howie does have a point that both our major parties are corrupt.

From that same article:

Quote
“This could make several points difference with my peeps. My Southern Baptist peeps would draw a big difference between a Jew and an atheist.”
The sad thing is that the Southern Baptists wouldn't vote for Clinton, either and the states full of them pretty much automatically go in to the "Red" column regardless. But. at least I don't recall the possibility really being a major issue in the primaries. Seven DNC officials does not equal the DNC itself.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-26, 00:08:03
The Democrat and second political circus in Philly has started rather poorly. The chair resigning after the disclosure that strings were pulled to stop Sanders. Now he has advocated Clinton and many of his supporters were booing at the hall and making protests in public saying that many would not vote for Clinton. She is a waste of space, not very honest really and involved in disasters in countries never mind her ease at being a liar.

One cannot help feeling for a place that ends up with a corporate influenced woman who will be damn hawkish on global matters and do damn all for the millions suffering in America.  It is obvious that inside the Democrat wing there is much unhappiness with her and what a poor choice toy people over there have. Head shaking  and well overdue for a revolution in politics because for all the loyalty of people they re being done in by both parties.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-26, 10:23:29
She is a waste of space, not very honest really and involved in disasters in countries never mind her ease at being a liar.
I showed you before that Trump managed to lie twice as much as she did, in far less time. It's been a decades long GOP project to portray Hillary as a serial liar, if not a veritable  American Lady MacBeth. But it simply isn't true. When every the GOP accuses someone of nefariousness, it often turns out that what they accuse the other person of doing is exactly what they're doing.

You somehow think thin skinned Trump won't be a disaster on the world stage? This might a case of not being able to see as well as Americans do, being all the way across the pond and all, but Trump's personality alone makes him a dangerous man to occupy the oval office. He lashes out, makes rash and reckless decisions. A man like this is not to be trusted with the nuclear codes. Nuclear armageddon  aside; I see him starting far more wars than Hillary if for no reason other than something pricked his thin skin. I fear not just for America, but for the entire world if this mentally unstable guy gets elected.

In short, Hillary is not perfect. She's human and therefore imperfect and flawed. Who isn't? Besides, who among your British PMs have flawless? Like Hillary, at least they weren't more fit for the asylum than a position of power.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-26, 11:57:13
i have made my feelings on Trump very clear here and not to be side-stepped. Being concerned about a system then as normally happens here an effort made to look at some other place or country is not the way to go. America does have clout in the economic world (that will pass) and in world politics and military stuff yet what have you produced from the big 2 corporate party control system? Trump who gets millions of your fellow country people thinking he is wonderful. Someone like that in  country in the world position it is in?? As for Clinton she is no great person at all and there are many democrats who have no great feeling for her. In foreign affairs she was hardly outstanding and puts on a front but what has she said about the economic gloom the millions struggling an poor? She IS well into the corporate corner and has well proved that. Throw in the behind-the-scnes attempt to negate Sanders and the protests regarding him and her at Philadelphia.  Neither of them are much to boast about and because Trump is such a mouth excuses are made for Clinton and all the guff we get about her being the first female President. I do not think she is impressive and many of the young Democrats will not maybe vote for her is something else.

The "system" is not fulfilling anything nowadays  and it is about money people.  The Conventions do not look very impressive or anything but a ramataz. Indeed they tend to look very kindergarten like I am afraid but that is what you folk are stuck with. The con woman will get in and when one sees the number of votes that will go to Trump it only emphasises a deep problem there is in society.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-27, 11:46:52
What Michelle Obama's speech here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZNWYqDU948) and tell me if it's still Kindergarten. The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/a-speech-for-the-ages/493010/) calls it a speech for the ages. This contrasts with the idiocy and lies of the Republican convention, which was at the Kindergarten intellectual level. You say "what has she said about the economic gloom the millions struggling an poor" but her work on this manages to get her labeled as socialist among some Republicans. Getting a speaking fee from Wall Street doesn't make her their puppet; the speaker influences the audience far more than the other way around.

I know you don't like Trump, either. But I was just trying to keep perspective. The man is unhinged.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-27, 17:31:39
Well Mrs Obama is capable of speech standards but proves little in practice!so was her husband and he is not outstanding. he has done little on the economy or the tens of millions who are suffering, killed  more people than GW Bush did especially with the drones and so on.  Words mean damn all when things do not change effectively. There were boos and unhappiness from Sanders people and protests outside as well showing the pointed divisions in the Democrats. Clinton will jut be an extension of the Obama terms and in practice will mean no great practice apart from words. She does not impress me at all and the money that poured into her funding from big money corners does indicate something and Obama before her got the same. The booing also showed something too did it not?

her record is not that outstanding in international affairs and she will be a bossy boots and the legions of Americans who have been suffering will see no change and the economy and global strutting will be bossy boots. Pity but until a wider change affecting more of the population. A side issue also is the hard fact that there are a lot of Democrats voters who re not that taken with Clinton either and the future is very questionable I am afraid.  :down:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-28, 02:46:05
Michelle Obama remains as ignorant and uninformed as she was when she was in college... (I read here thesis.) The White House was built by slaves? Really? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-07-28, 07:34:53
How can a country have a Trump running for the top office??

Simple....Any American Citizen that satisfies all the prerequisites outlined in the US Constitution can throw their hat into the ring to become U.S. President, in any political party they choose, or as an Independent. 

Next, they need to get on the State Ballots by satisfying their individual State prerequisites. It would be very helpful to get on all 50 State Ballots.

Trump obviously satisfied the prerequisites.....you probably couldn't.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/nopeyr4.gif)

IMHO....You're not even fit to shine the Donald's shoes. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/taunt.gif)

Otherwise, follow this (http://bfy.tw/6wvk) to get you started......not for the overly intellectually challenged, so RJ expect to give it more than you have....as it may find you wanting!  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/firefart.gif)

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-07-28, 14:55:26
Well, Americans have to choose between the devil and the deep blue sea.
As far as I can see most Americans (and all American posters here) have made their choice and favor Killary (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-fein/-hillary-clintons-appalli_b_9157892.html).
She is the darling of the establishment and of the media (moguls). Now that they got rid of that bothersome Sanders nothing can go wrong.
Congrats to R. Kagan and the rest of the neocon pack (https://theintercept.com/2016/07/25/robert-kagan-and-other-neocons-back-hillary-clinton/).
May the Warrior Queen be the best option - for Americans at least. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-07-28, 22:59:34
So... we, the superlative Europeans, who do we think the political illiterate Americans should vote for?

To me it's indifferent the moment they kill they next President. Killing their Presidents it's the best costume they brought to international politics. They are good at that.

By the way, they are releasing the murderer that tried to kill Reagan. That's not American.
Americans are not what they used to be.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-07-29, 01:35:11
So... we, the superlative Europeans, who do we think the political illiterate Americans should vote for?

To me it's indifferent the moment they kill they next President. Killing their Presidents it's the best costume they brought to international politics. They are good at that.

By the way, they are releasing the murderer that tried to kill Reagan. That's not American.
Americans are not what they used to be.
Well one thing is for sure; at the rate you all are letting the Islamic fanatics in, Portugal will return to it's Middle Age state. :(

Pity that.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-29, 02:32:34
Portugal will return to it's Middle Age state.  :( 

Pity that.
Nah! Bel wants to be a subsistence farmer… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-07-29, 05:32:43
Well one thing is for sure; at the rate you all are letting the Islamic fanatics in, Portugal will return to it's Middle Age state.  :( 

Pity that.
Remember Colonel that at our Middle Age state we destroyed the Islamic fanatics, it was the Reconquest.... :)
Modern Age it's the problem.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-07-29, 14:30:12
Which reminds me how we lived in the Middle Ages. Those were the good times.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-07-29, 15:07:32
You both must be pretty old.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-29, 21:27:57
Thank goodness the 2 damn Conventions are over an what a load of cobblers they both are. All those emotional people like children waving the dished out cards and pole banners, tears, hoorays and all like a kindergarten day out. Politics? it is a joke of the most juvenile kind. Many Americans don't want either Trump the renegade non-politician or the actor corporate, Clinton.  Will either make a damn difference to the tens of millions of poor the homeless the economy? nope and a couple of conventions every several years to keep the children happy is the usual.  it sadly all looks so immature and you cannot help feel sorry that the country is stuck with these big carnival waste of times.

Many are sick of what goes on and the trip and both parties have candidates that many, many sensible people will groan over.  It is sad and if I laid bets all those millions I mention will still be there under mouthy Clinton.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-07-29, 23:42:25
I saw a few images in tv with Hillary Clinton while I was having dinner. It was the Democratic convention I suppose.
The lady is a tramp, said Sinatra. The other is a trump.
I pronounce both the same way.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-07-30, 15:35:10
You both must be pretty old.
We both are approaching 900, aren't we @Belfrager ?

:D
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-07-30, 19:13:19
It is the same waffling guff every Presidential Election and when one finishes a term the millions who are not doing well will still be there and the big two will come out with the traditional stuff and all those emotional carnival orientated people at the 2 conventions maintain the same tradition. nothing changes. Obama came out with stuff that is  nothing and Clinton will do the same as the previous tenants of the White House. Many over there are fed up with the way things are and one cannot blame them. The so-called lesser of two evils, namely Clinton means sod all. She got big bucks from the corporate baron lot and will toady to them. Internationally she will be a groan but more important the millions of decent and badly done people in the ex-colonies will see no change and the folk at the top continue to get further away but still in control.

When the tens of millions who are suffering get attention that will be something instead of all the juvenile Convention posturing and child-like whooping up and so on. It looks pathetic and childish!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: string on 2016-07-31, 19:28:49
This Process is going to be quite a roller coaster methinks. As an outsider looking in, Hilary Clinton looks to be a much safer pair of hands than Trump. So in the interests of my own survival I favour Clinton.


In rthe meantime, here's a nice song for you Yanks (https://youtu.be/4O1BLhU_a3Q)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-01, 09:24:05
As an outsider looking in, Hilary Clinton looks to be a much safer pair of hands than Trump
Crooked and inept politicians are to be preferred? :) Trump is a wild card, granted. But the world has become the equivalent of the the children's card game War — otherwise known as 52-pick up. (At least that's how I remember it…!)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: string on 2016-08-01, 09:41:43
As an outsider looking in, Hilary Clinton looks to be a much safer pair of hands than Trump
Crooked and inept politicians are to be preferred? :) Trump is a wild card, granted. But the world has become the equivalent of the the children's card game War — otherwise known as 52-pick up. (At least that's how I remember it…!)

Like I said, I am an insider looking in, not that that stops any of us offering a view on the matters in this forum, but the claims about Hilary Clinton smell like political spin to me rather than real substance. I can only really judge on the policies that I have heard expounded and what they actually say.

Clinton passes that test for me whereas Trump does not. He has said so many silly things that I cannot see him as a President who would do good by America or would do anything but debase America's reputation in the world.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-08-01, 09:52:20
Crooked and inept politicians are to be preferred?  :)
Over one of the most intellectually dishonest and reckless people of our time? It'd certainly be possible. As it happens I think Hillary Clinton is neither much of a liar (http://americannewsx.com/politics/why-cant-you-believe-hillary-clinton-is-inherently-honest/) nor inept, but I'm not voting. :)

When you don't care about the truth you can't do anything but induce disaster, no matter how lofty your intentions.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-01, 22:18:55
When you don't care about the truth you can't do anything but induce disaster, no matter how lofty your intentions.
And that, precisely, is the dilemma we Americans face in our upcoming presidential election: Both major candidates are -shall we say, "challenged"? :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-02, 00:21:33
Clinton is NOT a safer pair of hands whatsoever. She is a hawkish person and well in the corporate corner and she damn well lies when it suits. She lied over the email process by the piles and I remember when she flew to the civil war situation going on at the former Yugoslavia break-up. She yakked about being shot at on the plane landing in only to find out later it was not true. In earlier times wasn't there some financial hokery pokery over land deals or something like that? Has she stated what she will do with the 43 million on food stamps and suffering or the other vast numbers losing homes and wide poverty? nope. Many Americans will only vote for her because it is either her or Trump and shows how sick the political side is. So she is not universally popular just because Trump is about.

The whole thing has been corrupted for a while due to the money men and their string pulling and you cannot help but feel for the large numbers over there who feel so totally frustrated and deep down know that the economy, poor, global situations will be no better off when she gets into the oval office. Mrs con woman 2016.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-02, 03:07:23
Could things be worse? :) (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=2403.msg64305#msg64305)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-02, 08:07:40
Once again we seem to be agreement. It doesn't look like things are any better in the UK. Maybe Hillary is a conwoman, but Trump certainly is a conman. But we're just going around in circles here. We don't have the best choices of candidates, but who remembers actually having good candidates? (And I remember jackass UK PMs as well, Howie...:p ) Anybody that should be president know better than to take the job. So enough with running that point into the ground.

So onto something twenty percent more scandalous. :yes:

(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/melania_-_copie_6.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=664&h=441&crop=1)

If anyone's offended by the nudity, I will need to ask you to stop being a prude at this time. Besides, the nipples are pixelated out as to offend sexless mama's boys and girls who remain emotional children. This photo, first published in the France's Max Magazine in Jan 1996, shows would-be First Lady Melania Trump embracing the other women from behind and was republished in the Aug 1 issues of the NY Post (http://nypost.com/2016/08/01/melania-trumps-girl-on-girl-photos-from-racy-shoot-revealed/). The San Jose Mercury News (http://www.mercurynews.com/celebrities/ci_30194331/melania-trumps-nude-photos-whos-behind-them) brings up the interesting question of who leaked it to the Post?

The Post brings up the easy explanation first:

Quote
The simplest motive seems to have been to embarrass and shame Melania Trump, a political spouse who is clearly not comfortable in the political spotlight and who is already trying to live down the scandal of plagiarizing Michelle Obama for her speech at the Republican convention.


That would point at someone in league with Clinton. But that's too easy, isn't it? Did the Trump campaign itself leak the photo?

Quote
Gawker and the Huffington Post have some theories. A.M. Mitchell with the Huffington Post believes the publication of the photos was timed by Trump or his people to "plant a red herring into our political news cycle."

Mitchell drills down on the timing. The photos went online after the Republicans had a pretty disastrous convention the week before and after Hillary Clinton accepted the Democratic nomination on Thursday ... And after Trump this past week incited outrage over his various comments about NATO, Russian hackers sabotaging Clinton, Vladimir Putin and the Ukraine ... And after he launched his controversial and lacerating criticism of the Muslim-American parents of a slain army captain.

What's disturbing, Mitchell said, is that by publishing the photos, "Donald Trump and the Post are hanging Melania out to dry in a culture which is still, at its core, puritanical. ... They are counting on her being retributively shamed by liberals who are hungry to avenge sexist slights against Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton in order to gain what? A couple of points in the polls?"

She continues: "Donald Trump is complicit in allowing a publication which has endorsed him to victimize his own wife. If there is any story worth talking about here, that is it."

The hole in the theory is in last two paragraphs of Mitchell's theory, even if Mitchell thinks Trump would actually throw his wife under the bus like this. It does make a little sense that Trump would attempt to disrupt the stream of negative stories about him, however. Also, if it wasn't the Trump campaign, why would the ragsheet that first endorsed Trump publish it?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-02, 22:47:04
Typical reaction there midnight trying to avoid the mess your political system is in - and trying to say we are as bad as what you have. Piffle and the usual US body-swerving. Your leaders stand up on vast platforms yakking on about the greatest country in the world, freedoms, rights and all the emotional ballyhoo which contradicts the hard facts of political life.. All the boasting, flag waving and those farces of would be political meetings? Ugh. If you lot reduced the silly boasting about the country it would be not quite so bad putting up with what is!

You folk grow up with all the nonsense and that razzmatazz but you do not really understand how silly and emotionally childish it all looks from outside the country. And even more so the hypocrisy going inside for millions of loyal Americans make it even seem worse! You need a revolution over there but this time not by the wealthy as before.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-03, 04:42:54
And yet we remain among the most stable and prosperous nations that ever existed Howie. Oh, I know "millions" on foodstamps and all that blather. Of course there are. In a country of over 300,000,000 population, "millions" means nothing without other data. I believe there are "millions" of millionaires as well (not bothered to look that up for you, since it means nothing to an America-basher.)

We do get one mediocre to bad president after another. The fact that we not only survive, but thrive speaks to American strength and resilience as a people. The Republican party, and to some extent the Democratic party have made cartoons of themselves (my suspicion is the Dems only trail the Repubs by a couple years in this regard) , but your politics seems to have completely looney toons as well with Brexit, another looming Scottish referendum, etc.

But at least we have a sexy whodunit to solve in the meantime. So who leaked the naked. lesbian  photos of the would-be First Lady? The Clinton camp, or the Trump camp?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-03, 05:18:12
If only we had a reputable journalistic institution, like the Sun…eh, Howie? :) (Your wider democracy, and all that!)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-03, 16:24:46
Clinton is NOT a safer pair of hands whatsoever.
That's not correct, Mr. Howie. Not at all.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/290217-scarborough-trump-asked-about-adviser-about-using-nuclear  Make sure to watch the video with Hayden.

Quote
Donald Trump repeatedly asked an unnamed foreign policy expert why the U.S. couldn’t use its nuclear weapons stockpile during a national security briefing earlier this year, MSNBC “Morning Joe” co-host Joe Scarborough said Wednesday.

Scarborough told the anecdote amid an interview with former CIA director Michael Hayden, who said he could not see himself voting for the “inconsistent” and “dangerous” GOP nominee. Asked if he was aware of anyone among his peers who was advising Trump, Hayden said “no one.”

Of course, the Trump campaign denied this, but observe his Politifact scorecard (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/) More than half his statements (56% to be exact) are either "Pants on Fire" or "False." Another 15% are "Mostly False." (Amazing that Trump supporters think Hillary is a liar. Trump is possibly the worst one in history.)

Okay, so he lies. There is a chance his denial was the truth. However:

Quote
He has openly suggested that major powers such as Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia obtain nuclear weapons, in what experts say could lead to a dramatic proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Trump later appeared to walk the statement back, though his position has been hard to pin down.

Separately, the GOP nominee has refused to rule out using nuclear weapons in Europe or against extremists such as the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

Yes, Trump is far more dangerous than Clinton. Whatever any American does in his or her life, don't fucking vote for Trump.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-04, 00:37:45
Fortunate language towards the end there unfortunately midnight. However I stand by what I said about Clinton and the long and deep problems in the country like the numbers of poor on stamps unemployment, economy will see no dashed difference with her at all. On the global side she will be hawkish and can only stretch to her being I suppose the usual lesser of two evils stance. Indeed I would alomost bet the 43 million food stamps folk will still be there after her and all the other ills; She wasn't that brilliant on foreign affairs and she has been a liar; Even routines where she was definite on the email passing thing turned out to be a lie. There were other things like the incident I mentioned about the lies about her plane being in danger over in the former Yugoslavia civil war situation and they are not isolated.

Unfortunately for so many over there my assertions on "no change" for millions of America will be proved true and many Americans of sound mind and thinking don't like her at all so he only looks good against the mental monster Trump.; What a damnable political situation you folk are being left in time after time and even more so today - Trump and Clinton? Sad really.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-04, 03:01:46
Fortunate language towards the end there unfortunately midnight.
Quite so. It wasn't strong enough. No American President nor Russian (or Soviet era leadership for that matter) had to ask three times why he couldn't start a nuclear war. The answer is obvious, global nuclear annihilation. Not that Trump would launch at Russia, but there seems to be lunatic wing of the GOP that fantasizes about "turning Iran into glass."Misstatements about being fire upon aren't even in the same league as Trump's lunacy and Hillary did not cause 43 million people (actually a small fraction of the US population, although it seems to like large number...) to be on foodstamps.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-04, 10:45:31
Hey, Sang: Someone calling themself "leftylurker" posted a comment to an article about Trump's handling of presidential briefings
Quote
Can we just call a do-over this election? And have a Biden/Cruz joint presidency for two years to reset. Sweet god this is a horrifying mess.
Amen, eh?
I never thought I'd consider Joe Biden the grown-up in the room… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-05, 00:02:03
Clinton does not impress me at all and she will get in due to the unbelievable candidate from the Republicans. It does show a great political weakness and time after time I have watched ordinary people being interviewed who are not very taken with Clinton at all but the other choice is a nightmare. As I said she will make no damn difference to all the people suffering in the country  and I could bet that at the end of her term all those weaknesses will still be there like trigger happy cops, millions on food stamps, millions in jail and losing homes. What will follow is another couple of carnivals passing for political get togethers and the same promises that mount to a hill of bean and all those suffering will see no damnable difference at all. Very frustrating as it just a continuous merry go-round unfortunately. and the same stuff every term as the people have been brained into it. Despairing in a ense and wish it was better.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-05, 01:13:35
I have watched ordinary people being interviewed
There are a number of shows here that do "man in the street" interviews… They routinely show committed Democrats' ignorance. :)
We here are lucky: You show yours without any need of questioning!

About the number of people incarcerated: You prefer your criminals roaming the streets, where they're safe from the coppers, eh?
Being poor in Glasgow is like being rich in America… But that's not your problem; what interests you is other peoples' problems.
(But at least you got the right thread, this time! :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-05, 23:24:59
Well we have a national minimum starting wage (not just like over your way), don't start paying taxes until you reach £11,000 (due to go up to £12,000), modern and cumfy non-private housing, Welfare State. The poor in the semi-democracy you live in would be envious of the less well off here. And all the improvements by a conservative government which is something impossible in your God forsaken place.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-08-06, 00:15:16
Does Clint Eastwood suffers from Alzheimer?
I was hoping Republicans to defend the USA more than the Democrats, which are much more pro European lifestyle, but they clearly don't. Who needs enemies while supporting clowns such as Trump.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-06, 02:23:58
The Republicans can't even defend themselves from their own candidate right now, Belfrager.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-06, 02:32:48
Does Clint Eastwood suffers from Alzheimer?
No. He suffers from sanity, a rare but unfortunately curable malady — both here and abroad. Of course, in Europe, long-established programs of inoculation have all but eradicated this problem!

BTW: At first, even I was a little miffed — that The Donald didn't endorse Paul Ryan (our current Speaker of the House)… Then, when he did, I couldn't help but chuckle! It's the same dance-steps Ryan used; except this time it's funny!
(There are legitimate reasons for Trump to oppose Ryan, as there were legitimate reasons for Ryan to oppose Trump…)
——————————————————————————————————————————————
p.s., Bel:
If you're referring (https://medium.com/@davepell/talking-dirt-with-dirty-harry-4c749d1985fd#.d2t86q2i5) to the imagined conversation between Clint and an undistinguished "journalist," you've presaged my point.
—————————————————————————————
"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right — here I am, stuck in the middle with you." A very clever tag line, eh? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-06, 06:29:26
Here's the Dems' platform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1joyvbJcI8
(Please watch to the end…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-07, 00:01:20
Can't stop feeling sorry for sensibles over there stuck with hawkish and corporate leaning Clinton as the would-be lesser of two evils and someone like Trump?? What this is all showing to the world is an embarrassment and dreadful thing.  :down:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-09, 10:12:56
Here's the Dems' platform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1joyvbJcI8
(Please watch to the end…)
Once again, we have a meddlesome Republican afraid of everything he doesn't understand. I'll bet that wuss Hillard wets himself on a daily basis at the sight of his own shadow, speaking both literally and metaphorically.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-10, 03:19:36
Actually, Sang, I liked the last part: Where Gomez says they may just have saved modern civilization; and Mortisha pauses before saying "Do you think that's a good thing…?"

Anyway: The Donald is at it, again.
Talking about a Hillary Clinton presidency and her effect on the federal judiciary, he said "And there'll be nothing you can do about it! …well, some of the 2nd Amendment folks… I don't know."
Now, mind, everyone I grew up with —liberals, Black Panthers, BLM johnny-come-latelys and good ole boys— would have said the same thing!
Of course, you don't expect it from a candidate for the office himself (…it's a long time since we had someone like Burr contend). And you know what offends me the most?
Trump stuck his foot in his mouth again. But this time he explained he was only trimming his toe-nails…

BTW: The running joke was, GHW Bush (Bill Clinton, GW Bush, Barack Obama…) didn't need Secret Service protection: Who'd want Dan Quale (Al Gore, Dick Cheney, Joe Biden…) as president? :) It's a tradition among us troglodytes, making informed decisions on the basis of democratic principles!

But news outlets are calling Trump's comment  a "veiled threat" against his opponent in the up-coming general election…
There are no adults left commenting on politics anymore: We're all just children bullying or being bullied!
(I blame the XIXth Amendment… :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-10, 08:57:59
I told you some time ago that Trump's mouth would cost him the election. I believe the phrasing was "Say something stupid" or to that effect. You didn't believe me and and tried to rub my nose in the have that the idiocy coming from his mouth did seem to be impacting his poll numbers. Believe me yet? He's one confuses not bowing to political correctness with just saying any ignorant thing he feels like at the time, and I think he just ways whatever his crowd wants to hear at the time.

Of course, you know that even with Hillary's rise the polls, more people are planning on voting against Trump than actively for Hillary.

Also, I heard some noise about the #nevertrump Republicans putting together a campaign, caring more about keeping a potentially dangerous man out of the office than getting the Republican candidate elected (or maybe they realize he's going down in landslide so badly that it actually won't matter for the final results...) and supposedly they have big money backers. But I guess we'll see what happens with this. If this pans out, it at least gives you somebody sane to support.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-10, 09:26:08
I supported somebody sane from the git-go! (His name was Cruz…) Your delusions are consistent, Sang; as are my values, and valuations…
When -and if- Hillary wins the presidency, you'll be sorry. (Excuse me: I was going to say your kids would be… But why would you care? :( )

I do miss when politics was less of a "contact" sport…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUnHZAUR6hE
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-10, 13:23:26
You just can't admit that I'm right about anything. Every week Trump just digs himself deeper in,

Right now, based on the polls of the individual states, the electoral college maps looks much like 2012 (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/obama_vs_romney_final_results_map.html) in which Obama won 332 electoral votes to Romney's 206 although Clinton seems to have started to lead in North Carolina for an additional 15 electoral votes. Trump is toast, done in by his own mouth. Yes, the current map has 246 votes so far for Clinton. But when you check the states, some "toss-up" states aren't really toss-ups.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-08-10, 13:49:46
Republican campaign tactics is to not mention Trump at all. This way he might have a chance.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-10, 14:54:31
But his strategy is to stay in the news. It worked well for him in the Republican in primaries. As a group, those are low information voters that actually want to hear his idiocy. In the general election, this is hurting him bad.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-08-10, 15:27:41
Of course Trump must speak some. He is the candidate after all. But Repub campaign supporters, such as Oakdale and SF here, only talk about Hillary and how the word democracy and its derivatives have bad associations in various ways.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2016-08-12, 05:04:45
Of course, you know that even with Hillary's rise the polls, more people are planning on voting against Trump than actively for Hillary.
She's been some kind of republican lite until Sanders pushed her to the left anyway. And she'll probably revert to that once elected.

Also, I heard some noise about the #nevertrump Republicans putting together a campaign, caring more about keeping a potentially dangerous man out of the office than getting the Republican candidate elected (or maybe they realize he's going down in landslide so badly that it actually won't matter for the final results...) and supposedly they have big money backers. But I guess we'll see what happens with this. If this pans out, it at least gives you somebody sane to support.
They probably think the backlash against senate and house republicans if drumpf got elected would be worse than clinton getting the job.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-12, 07:45:41
I just watched a commercial that said Trump was too irrational for us to give him the "nuclear codes"… Bill Clinton "misplaced" them for a few days, during his presidency. I'm sure Hillary knew nothing about it… :)

You're wrong, Mac, that Mrs. Clinton is some kind of "Republican lite": She's the common variety Democrat. The sort who uses anything and everything, to get what she wants…
But I don't worry! (I expect she'll stroke out within a few months of taking office.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-08-12, 11:01:49
But I don't worry! (I expect she'll stroke out within a few months of taking office.)
You'll be happy with her vice president for the rest of the term?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-08-12, 18:07:40
(I expect she'll stroke out within a few months of taking office.)
:cheers:  Hmmmm. Trump lite comment.  :D
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-08-13, 17:38:21
She's the common variety Democrat. The sort who uses anything and everything, to get what she wants…
I think you might consider adding "modern" in between "variety" and "Democrat". After all, Slick Willy was a "3rd Way" Democrat, rather than the previously "traditional" Democrat.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-13, 19:23:09
Clinton is a bossy boots strident hawk.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-08-13, 20:06:14
Clinton is a bossy boots strident hawk.
Can't wait to hear your commentary about Mrs. May.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-08-13, 22:03:09
November is approaching.
Nothing new will arrive, both clowns are the different faces of the same coin.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-08-13, 22:36:39
November is approaching.
Nothing new will arrive, both clowns are the different faces of the same coin.
If I didn't know any better........., I'd think you were an American.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-14, 00:01:02
I think you might consider adding "modern" in between "variety" and "Democrat". After all, Slick Willy was a "3rd Way" Democrat, rather than the previously "traditional" Democrat.
Granted: Hubert Humphrey was seen, when he ran, as a committed Liberal… (I remember when we used to call them that!) But, back then, the Democrat party had yet to fall under the sway of the loons.
If you'd care to do some reading, you'll easily find that Barry Goldwater would have made a good president. Humphrey would have too; instead, we got Johnson (also a consummate politician) and  Nixon… :)
Politics is a funny business.

In Bill Clinton's favor, I'd say he was a real politician: Doing the possible, within the constraints of political reality. (Welfare reform and the budget reductions — as well as the growing economy — came mostly from Newt Gingrich's leadership in the House of Representatives… Clinton gets the credit, for caving to a unstoppable force: The Power of the Purse, which is how it was always supposed to work. —Lately, Newt has gone off the rails… But he was always a "big ideas" guy! :) For instance, I liked the idea of a colony on the moon! Of course, the Lunies would claim anti-colonial status, shouting "Earthmen, go home!" </end stream-of-consciousness rant>)

What Clinton did -I think- was enable the cynics to openly try to rule. There is the genesis of the Trump candidacy: As RJ would say, "Sad!" (Had no one noticed that they were cynics, we could have been Scotland!) But. instead, we became the U.S. that RJ rails against… Because he won't look at what's happening closer to home.
Impotence is what it is.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-14, 15:25:31
For tens of millions (at least) it will make no damn difference whether the hawkish, gung-ho world hawk or the comedian get the White House. Indeed if I was a betting man I would see strongly that at the end of Clinton's first term if we looked back we would stil see economic problems the tens of millions of poor and on food stamps the SS, oops police still gunning away and so on.  The present corporate two-party lot are not doing anything for far too many Americans and after well over 2 centuries any principles lauded after the Boston tea party lot have still to be seen by many. Mind you the people who did that dumping were from a cumfy background and Freemasons (hence that lot's symbol on the banknotes!).

Clinton will also get people voting for her not because they want to and only because Trump is what he damn well is and not on any deep principle which shows the deep problems with what passes a system for many people.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-14, 16:32:38
the SS, oops police still gunning away and so on
Calumny is your main mode of expression, RJ… Were we a wee little half an island, there'd be far fewer police shootings.
The present corporate two-party lot are not doing anything for far too many Americans and after well over 2 centuries any principles lauded after the Boston tea party lot have still to be seen by many.
I take it your family's fortune went into the harbor that night? (At long last, I understand your animosity! :) )  Not much more than two centuries ago, your lot were just recovering from a religious civil war… And you yourself have mentioned how well Scotland is doing, politically and economically, nowadays — thanks to your "wider" democracy!


Clinton will also get people voting for her […] not on any deep principle which shows the deep problems with what passes a system for many people.
You seem to see a lack of "deep principle" whenever someone disagrees with you… You're a Democrat at heart! (A Marxist, actually. But so un-read as to be unaware.)

BTW: What's wrong with Freemasonry?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-15, 00:26:33
You would have been a great Goldwater fan boy. Anything outside of the two money corporate corners (Republican and Democrat) are Reds to your kind of mindset. As for Freemasonry that was a contributory factor in that rebellion started by the Boston Tea Party. As I pointed out they were from a cumfy money side and freemasonry so part of that set and the local freemasons were part of it hence as I also pointed out their  motif on the dollars. So a secret society full of more affluent members of the colony  did what suited them.

When one considers the numbers of Americans who's loyalty to stuff brained into them from young and suffering it makes an awful contradiction of the whole farce. You stopped being  colony over two centuries and now there is a larger number suffering poverty, rights being spoiled and watched by the State in a skulduggery control system and a nasty police control. My one consolation is that I am glad we don't have to be bothered not being a colony but you would have thought that after the 2 centuries you would have had a better situation. And now look at what you have in the next election. Trump a world embarrassment and Clinton who is a control freak corporate with people only voting for her who don't want Trump but no alternative to her. Freemasonry has played it's part and a sad matter to boot!

That Sanders did so well shows one that the fact that so many are fed up with the system but stuck under Wall Street control is an indictment on a very limited form of democracy that is coming to more of an attention. Your people do deserve a lot better than they are getting and what a damnable choice they will be stuck with later in the year. I feel sorry for them. Masons? - Bah.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-08-15, 08:42:00
https://youtu.be/7L0k2-kO_yc

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-15, 15:15:30
I hope that's a parody or satire :faint:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-08-15, 18:22:00
That's mildly amusing.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-08-15, 19:57:22
I hope that's a parody or satire
Old white guy. 70's style collar - 80's style keyboard... Cross necklace.

Nope. Seems pretty legit.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-08-16, 13:46:43
how many donald trump IQ ?

he boast have 150++
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-08-16, 15:24:47
Nothing new will arrive, both clowns are the different faces of the same coin.
I wish you a local Trump.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.capitolhillblue.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2F120915donalttrump.jpg&hash=d7af429a481e87745567094951dcd863" rel="cached" data-hash="d7af429a481e87745567094951dcd863" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.capitolhillblue.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/120915donalttrump.jpg)

I can live with Hillary, but Trump would make a move to Canada, the home of my ancestors, necessary. Have you heard that if Trump wins Canada is going to build a wall and make the US pay for it?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-16, 20:44:49
How can a civilised nation have him as one the two supreme candidates??
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-08-16, 21:07:46
We're not going back over it! If you weren't paying attention at the beginning it's your own fault. :mad:

 [:love:]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-18, 01:18:07
You are n infantile laugh. The problem is caused by the "system" you have and the idea of democracy is a word but not a very competent version. That a country in this day and age produces one candidate for the top job as stupid as Trump has a deep fault and lack of sense. The other one that mouthy Clinton woman is not of course like him but she is a liar. She lied to a Senate Committee that she did not send government emails via her own service and she did - piles of them. In addition she lied to them in saying only one device was used and it was at least two.

For a civilised country that can only produce those two is an inherent failing and many are only voting for Clinton not because they like her but simply because trump is a devastating clown who cannot give a proper speech. So don't come sniping at me for your own damn national failings. When Clinton mouth fishes her first term and I bet her second the 43 million poor stamp people will still be there the million a year going homeless, hundreds of pointless military bases across the globe, economic problems and so. Just because you might be frustrated or don't have the guts to face the obvious do try and grow up but there again with millions voting for a lying woman and millions voting for an idiot the place is a laughing stock; I didn't create it you lot of emotional political retards did!

There are large numbers of sensible people over there but stuck with an out of date process and political machine in which the big 2 are still going to continue to be corporate inclined and you are long overdue for a wider and more progressive thing than at present. What you folk need is a modern and more sophisticated revolution for more of the people not the select ones. Do feel okay to stick your stupidity where you like but don't hurt yourself! :hat:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-19, 03:22:02
She lied to a Senate Committee that she did not send government emails via her own service and she did - piles of them.
No, she correctly noted that previous secretaries of state used a private server and denied sending classified information over it (and a tiny number of them turned out be classified.) But your real problem with Clinton is her gender (Miss Bossy Boots...)

Good thing you're not American or you'll one of those jackasses voting for Trump over Benghazi, emails or because of "Crooked Clinton" (despite Trump's long train of lies and Trump "University."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-19, 09:37:22
your real problem with Clinton is her gender [—]Miss Bossy Boots...
That may well be the case. But your problem is more pertinent: Anyone committed to the LGBT "crusade" is your candidate! :)
BTW: How many people died because of Trump's whatever…? :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-08-19, 11:17:05
Just find a black Hispanic homosexual wealthless female and let her run for President. Nothing can go wrong.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-08-19, 11:54:56
Old white guy. 70's style collar - 80's style keyboard... Cross necklace.

Nope. Seems pretty legit.

I find that kind of campaigning kind of endearing (though not really kind of kind), and who knows, maybe it's working? In any case a little zeitgeist captured and encapsulated for posterity.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-19, 16:45:21
That may well be the case. But your problem is more pertinent: Anyone committed to the LGBT "crusade" is your candidate!
Really, you're trying to troll me on that? Let me know when you decide to stop being a jackass.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-19, 21:32:50
Sang, what is your reasoning behind supporting Mrs. Clinton then?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-20, 00:10:51
Stick by what I said about Clinton and I have watched the news reports and the answers given by your security chums in the FBI, etc. None of those visual tv reports agree with your stance.

On Clinton I am sticking by what I said about her as President and she will make no damn difference when she is done once or twice. Indeed I strongly stand by what I said about the economy, unemployment, poverty/food stamp numbers, home losing is bordering on an entertainment farce on both sides. That people are voting for her with an effort because of Trump is not just something I have concocted it is another sad thing in reality - the lesser of two evils.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-20, 02:17:17
Sang, what is your reasoning behind supporting Mrs. Clinton then?
Is there a case at all for supporting Trump at this point or even voting for him? He shows a complete lack of judgement at every turn. The man is so reckless he accused Obama of founding ISIS. It doesn't matter if he really meant it or not (although at first he insisted that he did, then said it was a joke. So what did he really mean?) What matter that he's reckless enough to say and do things like this repeatedly. In no way, shape or form is he presidential material.
Indeed I strongly stand by what I said about the economy, unemployment, poverty/food stamp numbers, home losing is bordering on an entertainment farce on both sides.
Economists are in agreement that if a President Trump did the things he promised to do, it will wreck the economy. What will that do to "economy, unemployment, poverty/food stamp numbers, home losing?"
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-20, 09:07:09
The man is so reckless he accused Obama of founding ISIS. It doesn't matter if he really meant it or not (although at first he insisted that he did, then said it was a joke. […])
So what did he really mean?
It's a hoot, hearing such criticism from you — one of the most inarticulate people I —sort-of— know! :)
Economists are in agreement that if a President Trump did the things he promised to do, it will wreck the economy.
Let me answer this one for RJ: "Economists"? Care to name any of them? (You can skip all those who didn't forecast the 2008 crash… Does that leave you any? :) )

As much as I dislike the guy, his stated tax policies would be beneficial… The tariffs thing would not, of course; trade wars seldom benefit anyone. (And we have so many tariffs already in place…) But some of the other things he's talked about are simply beyond the powers of the presidency, so I don't worry too much about them!

Had you considered answering my previous question? Or are you simply for Clinton because you're anti-Trump? (That seems to be what this election is becoming — hey: didn't I say that's what it would be, months ago? :) )

Sure wish Ted Cruz was the Republican nominee.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-08-20, 11:41:55
Just find a black Hispanic homosexual wealthless female and let her run for President. Nothing can go wrong.
Yes and a wall around the president is much more cheaper than around Mexico.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-20, 23:32:52
Midnight you are missing out my very obvious point that Clinton will make very little damn difference to the tens of millions who are suffering and that point is neatly passed over. I say that I could bet that when her first term is over the negatives will still be there and the bad side will continue until the next round of carnival party nonsense conventions.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-21, 02:41:55
et me answer this one for RJ: "Economists"? Care to name any of them? (
Look it up yourself. His economic policies are disastrous and it's much harder to find one that doesn't say the main thing he'll accomplish is increasing the deficit.  This is bipartisan BTW. The American Enterprise Instutute (https://www.aei.org/publication/the-trump-miracle-growth-plan-examined-briefly/)charitably questions how his trade plan would "supercharge" growth.
As much as I dislike the guy, his stated tax policies would be beneficial...
Here (https://www.aei.org/publication/some-economic-lessons-about-international-trade-for-donald-trump-from-milton-friedman-and-henry-george/)they take the kid gloves off. "In the video above Donald Trump’s uninformed, economically illiterate, and childlike views on international trade and trade policy are contrasted with Milton Friedman’s informed, economically sophisticated and mature views on trade." What's interesting about this election is that in many ways we're getting past the Right vs Left, Democrat vs Republican bickering to note one candidate is a disaster. Many Republicans for Trump are for the "nominee." Note the word choice; they can't say they're for Trump. Maybe that's because for an informed person, being for Trump is pretty well inexcusable.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-21, 19:56:36
I note that two of the three economists mentioned are dead… Funny, I don't remember you being a fan of Friedman before… But I'll agree with you and your economists about Trump's foreign trade and protectionist tariffs plan.
(Luckily, not much of that is within the power of a president.)

And I'd ask you to explain what Clinton's domestic plan (and tax increases) would do? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-22, 00:28:16
it must be really embarrassing for the country the world seeing that one of the 2 hopefuls is a man like him? Terrible.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-22, 01:45:52
I note that two of the three economists mentioned are dead...
I wasn't answering the question about the economists, rather showing that liberals and conservatives alike note that Trump's plan is a bad economic news. As far as a direct answer to the question goes, that answer is almost all of them.
And I'd ask you to explain what Clinton's domestic plan (and tax increases) would do?
Very little, as the Tax Policy Center (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/analysis-hillary-clintons-tax-proposals/full) tells us. Those this incomes below 300,000 USD will have little to no impact on their taxes. But what will tax increases on higher incomes do?
Quote
The actual effect of tax changes is an empirical question, and researchers have applied many methods to estimate the effect.16Examination of particular historical examples of tax reform, including shifts between the pre–and post–World War II periods, and the tax changes that occurred in 1981, 1986,2001, and 2003,suggests that taxes have little effect on growth. Simulation models suggest that deficit-financed tax cuts or tax cuts financed by cutting productive government spending are less effective at promoting long-term growth than tax cuts that are financed by cutting unproductive government spending (Auerbach and Slemrod 1997; Dennis et al. 2004; Desai and Goolsbee 2004; Gale and Potter 2002).
I know this runs counter to the GOP orthodoxy of Supply Side "Trickle Down" economics, but the tax rates in the US are below the point where lowering taxes further are the rich are going to have an positive impact. Further tax cuts to "1 percent" will only add to the deficit. Again, voting for Trump even on economic issues is indefensible. His tax plan would increase the deficit even as his mercantilist trade policies reduce GDP. "Economists"? Care to name any of them?" you ask? Pretty much all of them.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-08-22, 16:10:54
I find that kind of campaigning kind of endearing (though not really kind of kind), and who knows, maybe it's working?
You just had to make me check out his channel. The cynical side of me was correct. People that resonates with are of a type. I doubt it carries much to outsiders.
('i' before 'e' except after 'c' annotations will not save me. :doh:)
In any case a little zeitgeist captured and encapsulated for posterity.
Only you could find the silver lining in that. :P
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-08-22, 16:29:10
it must be really embarrassing for the country the world seeing that one of the 2 hopefuls is a man like him?
I'm not even sure Trump would be the worst President ever. L.B.J? Nixon? Come on, the system can handle it. Despite what listening to some would suggest the government buildings weren't built of glass.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-08-22, 17:23:55
yes, the system can handle it. Only the flies changes the shit remains the same.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-22, 19:11:46
Unfortunately no matter which of the two are in the suffering legions will I am afraid not change.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-23, 00:25:58
…I especially liked all the asterisks! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-23, 02:05:27
…loved all those asterisks in the "report" on Clinton's plan! :) (They focused upon it in March.) Here (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/analysis-donald-trumps-tax-plan/full)'s their (the same outfit, different people) "report" on Trump's plan, from 2015…
BTW, Sang: Haven't you mostly dis-agreed with reports from the Bookings Institute, previous to this election cycle? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-08-23, 04:37:34
It's been over 260 days since Hillary has had an unmoderated Press Conference, taking unscripted questions from the Press?

Why?  (https://i.imgsafe.org/b232a46.gif)
What medical conditions might she be hiding from the public?  (https://i.imgsafe.org/b9e0347.gif)

Is she fit to be President ...... how can she handle a legitimate international crisis if she can't even hold a simple, unscripted, press conference during a hotly contested presidential campaign??

What about the 24/7 stresses of the Presidency? .... arguably one of the most stress filled occupations on earth! :sherlock: 

So again, I ask .......why?

I think these are legitimate questions that need legitimate answers ..... don't you? ..... Anybody .....

'Coony? 

You have a clue? .... she's your girl....wassssup with her? ..... does she have brain damage from that clot & concussion after her fall a while back,  or is she being treated for epilepsy, stroke ........... or worse??


It's well documented .... she seems to freak when she's confronted by questions from more than 2 people at a time ..... shrieks ..... super sensitive to adversity  .... uncalled for angry outbursts with staff ....  makes bizarre faces ..... displays various tics & exaggerated tic like gestures .... barking .... what on earth is really wrong with her??

Honestly, is she really fit enough to be our military's Commander in Chief? 

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqbDBRWb63s[/VIDEO]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-23, 09:51:33
Oh please. :rolleyes: Yeah, some rightwingers have been trying to flip the script that she's the crazy one despite their boy displaying mental health issues on daily basis.  This accusation is nearly a sign of mental illness in and of itself.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-23, 16:20:55
This accusation is nearly a sign of mental illness in and of itself.
Physician, heal thyself! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-08-23, 22:20:08
This accusation is nearly a sign of mental illness in and of itself.
Just a lack of elegance at the political combat not allowed elsewhere in the world but in the USA.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-08-24, 05:02:06
What medical conditions might she be hiding from the public?
If even you can figure it out, then she's not really hiding. And Trump, he's definitely not hiding. But yeah, you never have anything to say about Trump, because *you* are hiding.

God have mercy on America and on her unfortunate inmates.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-24, 06:52:00
Quote
His latest pivot may be too late, but it certainly hit the right notes by presenting his populist themes — unwise trade deals, defense cuts, inner-city violence, attacks against police, illegal immigration, the war on coal, big-government regulations, and boutique environmentalism — as symptomatic of elite neglect not just of the white working class but of minorities as well, upon whom liberal policy falls most heavily. By curbing his personal invective and focusing on Obama’s incompetence and Clinton’s corruption, Trump may succeed in allowing 4 or 5 percent of the missing Republicans and independents to return and vote for him without incurring social disdain.
(source - you can look it up, if you want; I'm tired!)
How will Hillary counter this?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-08-24, 09:26:14
That's the old Republican rule book to get the party out of the shrinking elderly white suburban male ghetto demographic.

Done deftly it can be a winning strategy. Depict the other party as the establishment, find the grievances of the target demographics that could conceivably play well with your current base, and amplify their fear and anger. That works pretty well everywhere, and in the US for both parties whether or not the party's policy is actually to the benefit of the target group. A complication is that in US elections only a few voters in a few states matter, the rest will do as they're told.

Recent immigrants is a good group. They generally feel threatened by the newest immigrants. "Boutique environmentalism" is nonsense, it would be a repeat of the Republican party as the anti-gay party. It gave the party a boost a decade ago, now it is a millstone.

The energy boom and bust led to a good number being hired and then fired. Being fired is good for aggrievances, However, the number is pretty small, that a few of these are in swing states notwithstanding. Worse, these are the ones likely to vote Republican anyway. These are industries that make a few people very rich (and willing to lobby, so good for income), but don't affect many people. In an increasingly urban USA that makes as much sense as being the party of textile factory workers.

In any case Trump doesn't follow this Republican-sanctioned rule book.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-25, 15:28:43
. A complication is that in US elections only a few voters in a few states matter, the rest will do as they're told.
That might not be an issue this time around. Because of the poor quality of the GOP candidate, once solid GOP states are suddenly in play That includes South Carolina of all places.
If even you can figure it out, then she's not really hiding. And Trump, he's definitely not hiding. But yeah, you never have anything to say about Trump, because *you* are hiding.
The "birthers" have morphed in the "healthers."  This is a strategy that work ever so well against Obama and certainly didn't make the subscribers to the conspiracy theory look like a bunch of nutcases.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-26, 02:38:57
How will Hillary counter this?
Trump and his "pivots." Hillary won't need to counter it because every time he tries to "pivot", he goes right back his same old self.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-08-26, 07:12:57
[glow=black,2,300]Latest Emails [/glow](newly discovered....as of 3 days ago) [glow=black,2,300]reveal how choice Clinton Foundation donors got easy access to Hillary Clinton & her close aides at the State Dept.[/glow]


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPAViB9kDao[/VIDEO]


:insane:    :insane: Word is the Clinton Campaign is sweating bullets over this latest new FBI discovery.  :insane:    :insane:


[glow=green,2,300]Seems Hillary's chickens are coming home to roost...
....by the truckload!
[/glow] 
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.pennlive.com%2Fopinion%2Fphoto%2Fhillary-chickens-cartoonjpg-3dc6eac681f20997.jpg&hash=1c8264a79d4cf0244bd13b560c40c00f" rel="cached" data-hash="1c8264a79d4cf0244bd13b560c40c00f" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://media.pennlive.com/opinion/photo/hillary-chickens-cartoonjpg-3dc6eac681f20997.jpg)
[glow=green,2,300]She just can't get away from those lies about the emails now can she![/glow] (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/big%20laugh%20007.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-26, 15:04:29
Oh no! Emails!  Funny how that video says no such thing. Hillary's chickens are coming home to roost? Have you seen the electoral vote yet? 272 probable electoral votes for Clinton and most likely at least Florida and Ohio will swing her way. There's fair chance Nevada will too. She won't actually need those three states given the high probability that  the states polling with Clinton remain her camp. It just keeps getting worse for Trump, never better. He's toast regardless of how many scandals the desperate GOP invents. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_elections_electoral_college_map.html)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-26, 21:33:29
Well I* do think Clinton is a liar and she was a hawk dealing with international matters. That area will be worse 9f she wins but I am convinced she will make no damn difference tot the tens of millions suffering in the country.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-08-27, 06:19:31




....Hillary's chickens are coming home to roost?.....

Julian Assange pretty much says in his exclusive interview with FOX News, & reported by Time .... stay tuned, you ain't seen nothin' yet ..... regarding his future planned "Significant" releases involving Hillary Clinton, & her campaign to become President of the United States.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BigToothSmile.gif)

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPLVxlTbijQ[/VIDEO]
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/imthinkin6.gif)          (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)

Assange has very little regard for Republicans.......has no use whatsoever for Trump.......but he can't stand the demonrat party, & for whatever reason yet unknown by me, he flat out detests Hillary Clinton! 

I see great things to come from this despicable lad, &[glow=blue,2,300] I only hope he hits one out of the park! [/glow](https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/yes.gif)





Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-28, 00:48:53
I only hope he hits one out of the park!
That's the problem isn't it? Too many GOPers have been trying to bank on some scandal to bring down Clinton when Trump has his own scandals, such Trump "University" which is know being sued for fraud by the students. But the Democrats don't have to scandal monger Trump, because the delusional guy is still his own worse enemy.

For instance just today he tweeted:

Quote from: Trump via Twitter
Dwyane Wade's cousin was just shot and killed walking her baby in Chicago. Just what I have been saying. African-Americans will VOTE TRUMP!
NBA basketball star Dwyane Wade's cousin gets murdered and the first thing Trump has to say is a delusion that African-Americans will vote suddenly vote for him because of the tragedy. Seriously, WTF is wrong with this guy? One incident like this after another is why Trump is losing badly. It shows that he's delusional, has a lack of empathy (sociopathic?), at best shows a serious lack of judgment.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-28, 01:08:14
What has been a surprise is some of the information coming back here in special programmes. When Channel 4 sent a well known member over there to see about Trump amongst ordinary people it was very surprising. Places where people had lost industry to overseas and so-on. He had got a response from people fed up with the way Washington is run and Clinton will not do much to improve things. When you see long working class Democrats saying they are voting for Trump and not impressed with Clinton it is an eye opener. I dare say that the lack of political experience of Trump will be a challenge for him although he is touching numbers of people unexpectedly and the other candidate, Clinton has a number of people who are not convinced or like her. She is far more involved with the corporate money people too. The reaction of those working class people when interviewed in a bar, cafe or wherever I think also surprised the interviewer and the election may be one of the lesser quality ones for the country - and a bit brutal. When you get a woman who has voted all her life for the Democrats and is now voting Republican it is thought provoking.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-28, 01:48:57
The fact is both parties failed the working and middle classes and will likely continue to do so, but they aren't being fooled by Trump into supporting him. Trump is managing to fare even worse among the white working class than Romney did (https://theintercept.com/2016/08/10/the-great-white-hype-no-one-is-energizing-the-white-working-class-not-even-donald-trump/). He does draw large crowds, which creates good optics of support levels; but it's smoke and mirrors and the support numbers disagree. BTW, over here the myth of Trump's supposed working class support has been told time and time again - just like the childhood myths of Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy.

In a nutshell, Trump's economic policy is outdated mercantilist protectionism combined with tax cuts mostly for the rich. This won't help the working class any more Hillary's policies; and if economists are right (again, this is pretty much all of them regardless of politics, Oakdale) Trump's policies stand a good chance of causing recession which will hurt all classes except maybe the One-Precenters.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-28, 06:12:54
Sang, you always cherry-pick your data and your sources… Come November 8th, we'll have an election; I know you'd rather just go by the "opinion" polls — but life is sometimes tough. (It could be worse for you: Mrs. Clinton could win… But you're too stupid to know that.)
If there's anything that might make you appreciate the need for American Constitutional government, it would be a Trump presidency! :)

Then, again, you're college educated… Learning is something you've learned not to do.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-08-28, 09:59:49

[glow=green,2,300]Clinton: 'I am sure' that there are no damaging emails[/glow]



Source:    Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/clinton-no-damaging-emails-227442)   
Quote
Hillary Clinton forcefully and unequivocally rejected on Friday the prospect that her presidential campaign could be derailed by any new emails or scandals related to the Clinton Foundation.

"Are you certain that there are no emails or foundation ties to foreign entities that will be revealed that could perhaps permanently impact your presidential prospects?" co-host Mika Brzezinski asked Clinton during a telephone interview on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."

"Mika, I am sure, and I am sure because I have a very strong foundation of understanding about the foundation—not to have a play on words—that the kind of work the foundation has done which attracted donors from around the world is work that went right into providing services to people,"Clinton replied.

Clinton reiterated that neither she, nor Bill Clinton, nor Chelsea Clinton have "taken a penny" for the work of the foundation.

"My work as secretary of state was not influenced by outside sources............continued


(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/laughing024.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/big%20laugh%20007.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/biglaugh023.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lolfun.gif)

(https://i.imgsafe.org/2b5a2ecab5.jpg)



Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-08-28, 12:53:11
Amazing, one can positively see the echo in the chamber.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-28, 19:06:38
Clinton would make no damn different to the present actual economic problems in the country nor the vast numbers of poor and homeless because she is part of the corporate world and her income well shows that one. Your forthcoming election is one of the more iffy ones for a long time I would add. A routine non-political eccentric and a scheming and lying woman. She has operated improperly and there were things in her term as that Secretary that cannot be boasted about. It will not be a pleasant course between the two and there are a lot of people I think with mixed views on her as a long term politician. So when people try to make her normal in the war with Trump they are  fooling the people and we have to guess what Trump would be like she will be a disaster and a global hawk of the most infantile kind. Feel concerned and sad the state the election is in.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-08-29, 22:19:30
If everyone is entitled to choose his own way, let the Americans do it.
Trump or Hillary it's indifferent. It only affects the American distribution of jobs and power, all the rest remains the same.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-30, 00:09:22
FBI says foreign hackers penetrated state election systems (https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-says-foreign-hackers-penetrated-000000175.html)

Quote
The FBI bulletin listed eight separate IP addresses that were the sources of the two attacks and suggested that the attacks may have been linked, noting that one of the IP addresses was used in both intrusions. The bulletin implied that the bureau was looking for any signs that the attacks may have attempted to target even more than the two states. “The FBI is requesting that states contact their Board of Elections and determine if any similar activity to their logs, both inbound and outbound, has been detected,” the alert reads. “Attempts should not be made to touch or ping the IP addresses directly.”

“This is a big deal,” said Rich Barger, chief intelligence officer for ThreatConnect, a cybersecurity firm, who reviewed the FBI alert at the request of Yahoo News. “Two state election boards have been popped, and data has been taken. This certainly should be concerning to the common American voter.”

Barger noted that one of the IP addresses listed in the FBI alert has surfaced before in Russian criminal underground hacker forums. He also said the method of attack on one of the state election systems — including the types of tools used by the hackers to scan for vulnerabilities and exploit them — appears to resemble methods used in other suspected Russian state-sponsored cyberattacks, including one just this month on the World Anti-Doping Agency.

As paranoid as it sounds, this isn't the first time Russians appear to have attempted to alter the election (http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/07/how-putin-weaponized-wikileaks-influence-election-american-president/130163/)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-30, 00:39:05
You are quite direct and definitely right Belfrager.

Russia? Dear oh dear Midnight Raccoon. I thouight you might be a sensible Yank but  by coming out with this utter propaganda stupidity that Russia is effecting the election! H aha, how really infantile and daft that is.  It is a mess in it's own right with who they have - Clinton and Trump! It will not make one heavenly damn who wins the joke that is a system in the country because all the people I have felt sorry for will still be there in their tens of damn millions.  The only principled man you had was Sanders and money barons killed that corner.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-30, 01:27:41
When the Russians effect an election, RJ, they do it the old fashioned way! :) But, with the way you mumble, you nor anyone else would know if you meant affect… And, with your "wide" knowledge of computers, your understanding of intelligence operations likely stops at tea-soaked secret papers.

Sanders never stood a chance, anyway, BTW! He joined the Democrat Party to enjoy a last fling and quit it when he lost the nomination… Since he never bothered to actually try to win it, I see no other explanation. (I wonder, though: What became of those campaign contributions? :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-08-30, 08:52:28
As paranoid as it sounds, this isn't the first time Russians appear to have attempted to alter the election (http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/07/how-putin-weaponized-wikileaks-influence-election-american-president/130163/)
No proofs, lot of claims and allegations using the subjunctive - that's how propaganda warfare works.
BTW, Russian hackers paid by Putin hacked the voting machines in favor of Hillary. Sanders should immediately complain to the Kremlin. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-30, 10:07:47
Have you and Howie read the article? The IPs implicated in the attacks were found on criminal Russian hacker forums. Putin and the Kremlin may well have nothing do with it, but evidence indicates attacks did originate from Russia. In this case, the attacks were on one "red" state (Arizona} and one "blue" one  (Illinois) so maybe it might have Russians with no political preferences about either candidate. Does this change the country of origin of attacks at all? You tell me, after you're done mindlessly calling "propaganda" of course.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-08-30, 15:53:54
Have you and Howie read the article? The IPs implicated in the attacks were found on criminal Russian hacker forums.
Have you any clue about computing?
No half brained script kiddie (let alone hacker) would attemt to attack a system directly from his mashine revealing the source (IP).
The above fairy story is aimed to clueless people. Unfortunately most internet users make part of the latter category.
Be assured that an IP doesn't say nothing about the source of an attack.
In case you don't believe me, do a favor to yourself and inform yourself on any half decent security forum out there. ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-08-30, 17:47:51
Have you any clue about computing?
No half brained script kiddie (let alone hacker) would attemt to attack a system directly from his mashine revealing the source (IP).
The above fairy story is aimed to clueless people. Unfortunately most internet users make part of the latter category.
Be assured that an IP doesn't say nothing about the source of an attack.
Actually, IP is precisely how the source is pinned down. There may be (an) intermediate machine(s) used, but that machine became intermediate by attack from another IP.

I haven't read the article, but if it was anything like the attack against Estonia in 2007 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_cyberattacks_on_Estonia), the source is clear by IP. You can hide the source IP when you attack from a single machine, but not when you are coordinating a mass attack.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-30, 18:07:47
Really, Krake?  You somehow don't think the FBI doesn't know the hackers will attempt to conceal their IPs and know how to defeat this? That's almost cute.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-08-30, 18:25:59
Hackers, somewhere, trying to attack some prominent machines to get in the news... That is older than the internet itself.
Russian hackers attacking American machines... That must be something special. :right:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-08-30, 18:40:44
Actually, IP is precisely how the source is pinned down. There may be (an) intermediate machine(s) used, but that machine became intermediate by attack from another IP.
To make it easier to understand for everybody:
The source pinned down is the IP of the last link of a chain aka involuntary intermediar. The intermediar(s) are usually clueless persons.
So even you've pinned down the IP of the intermediar, you still don't know anything about the attacker.

I haven't read the article, but if it was anything like the attack against Estonia in 2007 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_cyberattacks_on_Estonia), the source is clear by IP. You can hide the source IP when you attack from a single machine, but not when you are coordinating a mass attack.
a.) No, it wasn't a DDoS attack like that against Estonia in 2007.
b.) If done by professionals you can fake the IP even when you are coordinating a mass attack (DDoS).

Under normal conditions when you want to visit a site the remote server's respose will be transmitted to the IP the request is comming from.
In case of a flooding attack you don't need the remote server's respones and such the requesting IP can be a fictive one.
Your only goal is to bring the server down by flooding it with requests. ;)
All you need therefore is a network capable "client" where you can fake all outgoing data.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-08-30, 18:47:48
Really, Krake?  You somehow don't think the FBI doesn't know the hackers will attempt to conceal their IPs and know how to defeat this? That's almost cute.
Did you bother to ask in any half decent security forum? Namely that he source of the IP reveals nothing about the real attacker.
Only parroting the FBI's warfare propaganda will leave you as clueless as you are at the moment. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-08-30, 19:56:58
To make it easier to understand for everybody:
The source pinned down is the IP of the last link of a chain aka involuntary intermediar. The intermediar(s) are usually clueless persons.
So even you've pinned down the IP of the intermediar, you still don't know anything about the attacker.
Are you saying you can only reach the first intermediary and not go further?

a.) No, it wasn't a DDoS attack like that against Estonia in 2007.
b.) If done by professionals you can fake the IP even when you are coordinating a mass attack (DDoS).
Let's grant that, but to have a point, you must also be saying that when a professional cyberattack occurs you can never tell where it came from. Are you saying that? Evidently, you admit that there are cyberattacks, but are you saying it cannot be Russia, because it's impossible to tell where cyberattacks originate? None of this makes sense.

If cyberattacks occur and FBI/CIA can do them, then so can KGB/FSB. It's highly plausible that they all do it, because all of them have active research projects in this field. And specific departments/squads for the purpose.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-08-30, 21:18:00
Are you saying you can only reach the first intermediary and not go further?
The last not the first. Theoretically you could use the last mashine you got the IP from as a honey pot to go further.
However if the damage is already done there are little chances that the attacker will trap into it.
Let's grant that, but to have a point, you must also be saying that when a professional cyberattack occurs you can never tell where it came from. Are you saying that?
It depends what kind of cyberattack you mean. DDoS or an intrusion are different pair of shoes.
As I said, you can put up a honey pot in case of an intrusion and hope that the attacker won't change the intermediar.
It's a cat and mouse game. However in most cases ther server will be fixed as soon as the intrusion was detected.
Evidently, you admit that there are cyberattacks, but are you saying it cannot be Russia, because it's impossible to tell where cyberattacks originate? None of this makes sense.
No, you are misreading what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that it could be anyone. Whoever it was (Russians included), the story as presented in the article is a fairy tale.
In addition to the above - you don't need therefore any knolledge about computers, just a little common sense.
If the police is suspecting somebody for a crime it will try to monitor that person till it can get him with proof.
The last thing would be to warn him by making the suspicion public.
If cyberattacks occur and FBI/CIA can do them, then so can KGB/FSB. It's highly plausible that they all do it, because all of them have active research projects in this field. And specific departments/squads for the purpose.
There is a huge difference between "highly plausible" and ventilating accusations without any proof.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-30, 23:58:59
Is there something odd going on with Clinton??

She has not given a press conference for about eight months. Some of her election appearances seem to show someone who is ill. She has two men helping her up stairs and has a footstool to help her into her limousine.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-08-31, 03:54:42
What I'm saying is that it could be anyone.
So, you are still in effect saying that when a professional does it, he will never be found out. Compare: When a professional does it, murder will never be solved. Not so simple.

In reality, yes, there are ways to hide your traces, and yes, professionals are more likely to hide their traces better than amateurs, but the investigators are also professionals and eventually it's a random set of crimes that remains unsolved for a random set of reasons.

There is a huge difference between "highly plausible" and ventilating accusations without any proof.
There is also a huge difference between "didn't do it" and having a specific case where the general direction of the attack is known, plus a suspect in that direction with the means, motives, and repeated history of having done it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-08-31, 06:25:56
So, you are still in effect saying that when a professional does it, he will never be found out. Compare: When a professional does it, murder will never be solved. Not so simple.
There is a huge difference when the crime is done locally and the criminal is hiding in your country or the crime is done from thousands miles away and the criminal could be hiding everywere around the world (your backyard included). In the latter case you'll need the cooperation of the countries the intermediars' IPs belong to.

There is also a huge difference between "didn't do it"
Are you misreading me again?
I neither said they "didn't do it" nor that they "have done it".
What I'm saying (for the second time) is that you can't accuse someone without evidence, except your accusasions are part of your warfare propaganda.

As for Hillary, she might be the darling of Wall Street but she is not everyone's darling - neither on all places of the world, nor at home.
Either the lady didn't do anything illegal and her leaked emails can't bother her at all, or she did something illegal and Americans can be thankfull for getting the chance to know about it.
a suspect in that direction with the means, motives, and repeated history of having done it.
Leme add for better understanding: a suspect that can encrease the blood pressure of ersi only by mentioning the country's name. :D

Last but not least:
Quote
Hillary Clinton claims that Russia hacked the Democratic National Committee's emails to help Donald Trump in the 2016 race, but a NSA whistleblower disagrees with her assertion.
Former NSA official William Binney, an architect of the agency's surveillance program, says that it is more likely that a disgruntled member of the U.S. intelligence community leaked the emails.
On "Fox and Friends" this morning, Binney said that accusing the Russians is a way of diverting attention from the actual issues that the emails bring to light.
source (http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/08/03/former-nsa-official-william-binney-dnc-email-hack-likely-wasnt-done-russia)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-31, 07:03:56
Krake, you know I'm a partisan… But your reading of this kerfuffle is spot-on!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-08-31, 08:16:03
There is also a huge difference between "didn't do it"
Are you misreading me again?
I neither said they "didn't do it" nor that they "have done it".
What I'm saying (for the second time) is that you can't accuse someone without evidence, except your accusasions are part of your warfare propaganda.
Evidently somebody did it, there is a plausible suspect and I suggest that the denial of the plausibility of the suspect, if unreasoned and boneheaded, is a sign of brainwashedness, not of analytic skepticism.

The following is a good example of misdirection:
a suspect in that direction with the means, motives, and repeated history of having done it.
Leme add for better understanding: a suspect that can encrease the blood pressure of ersi only by mentioning the country's name. :D
In reality, I pointed to an actual cyberattack from Russia to Estonia. You have essentially wiped it under the rug.

I relate to Russia and Russians based on their past behaviour. I'm forced to relate to them because they live next door (and a fifth column and other possible Trojans are planted indoors).

Do you remember the divisions of Poland or Molotov-Ribbentrop or Nord Stream? Do you think they are all good things or do you think they are irrelevant historical accidents nothing to do with current geopolitics? Do you think that your lack of sensitivity to Russia's character (because Russia is not immediately next door to you) enables you to claim you are politically neutral and impartially observant of facts? No, your stance is political through and through. As is mine.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-08-31, 09:09:30
Evidently somebody did it, there is a plausible suspect and I suggest that the denial of the plausibility of the suspect, if unreasoned and boneheaded, is a sign of brainwashedness, not of analytic skepticism.
Here it is for you, the third and last time:
I neither said they "didn't do it" nor that they "have done it".
What I'm saying (for the third time) is that you can't accuse someone without evidence, except your accusasions are part of your propaganda warfare.

Whether your 'analytic' abilities can grasp my above statement or not, there is nothing to add - period.
Your psychopathologic problems resulted from the past are off topic.
So you can try to twist my statement as long as you wish, it won't change the facts. ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-08-31, 09:52:22
Perhaps the Russian "secret" service did this… Perhaps not. This is the sort of thing that fiction writers love! (Remember "Riley, Ace of Spies" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reilly,_Ace_of_Spies)… :) ) You can't make this sort of stuff up!

Indeed, the Russians might have done this, and might do more. We do, I think, similar things… But what do Russian authorities care about "public" opinion? (We're very much out-"gunned": They repress they're people; even oppress them! We have a third-string quarterback who's sat on the bench for a season sitting on his ass again, but this time during the playing of our national anthem… That's a revolution!?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-08-31, 10:06:58
Since Americans, Russians, Chinese and probably some Europeans constantly spy all of us, I don't see any problem on stealing the emails of some American mediocre politician.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-08-31, 14:03:47
Here it is for you, the third and last time:
I neither said they "didn't do it" nor that they "have done it".
What I'm saying (for the third time) is that you can't accuse someone without evidence, except your accusasions are part of your propaganda warfare.
Let's review how it went. You said:

No proofs, lot of claims and allegations using the subjunctive - that's how propaganda warfare works.
In response, I presented you with another case with more data and evidence that you didn't counter. You basically wiped it under the rug (a demagoguery move) and you're pretending that your accusation of propaganda warfare still applies. To be brief, it doesn't because of the way you treat evidence. Enough said.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-08-31, 17:13:17
The US election campaign is a media circus but has also its funny moments.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrJ9e_1WIAA0XDn.jpg)
Could you imagine having to share a cell with these two? That was my life for 16 years.

Anthony Weiner -not the real one :)) source (https://mobile.twitter.com/AnthonyVVeiner/status/770816464798515205)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-31, 23:40:42
Just as well it has a passing funn y side to it because for tens of millions of Americans it will simply make no damn difference whether Trump or Clinton wins.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-05, 00:45:54
REPORT
Turns Out You Can’t Trust Russian Hackers Anymore (http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/22/turns-out-you-cant-trust-russian-hackers-anymore/) The odd capitalization comes from the source. But anyway, who would have thought you can't trust the word of cybercriminals....:rolleyes: In a nutshell, It turns out Russian hackers broke into a systems operated by a philanthropic organization run by George Soros and altered the stolen documents (of course the source provides exactly how.) This brings us to a point more directly related an issue directly related to this election.

Our Republican friends wait with baited breath for something damning to come out of Clinton's stolen emails. It doesn't seem to register with them that this is information provided by Guccifer, a criminal.  What's that old saying? Oh yes, "there is no honor among thieves."So how exactly are we supposed to know emails posted on Wikileaks are accurate? If a hacker breaks into a system and steals a document, he can gain change it however he wants. In fact, the the BBC reports that forensics of the metadata on documents provided by Guccifer 2.0 indicate that they were edited. (http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36913000)(Krake, Guccifer 2.0 did use a French VPN but the IP was traced beyond that. As I said, it's almost cute that you don't think the FBI and other agencies  can't see beyond the first IP presented...)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-05, 03:43:22
Our Republican friends wait with baited breath for something damning to come out of Clinton's stolen emails. It doesn't seem to register with them that this is information provided by Guccifer, a criminal.
Your (…probably only!) Republican friend asks: Does the Kremlin run the FBI and handle FOIA requests?
Nobody in the DNC denied their e-mails, and their chairman resigned… The problem you have is your preferred candidate is Hillary Clinton! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-09-05, 07:13:02
Hillary Clinton’s Most Recent
Mind-Boggling FBI Interview


 :doh:   And this excuse maker liar wants to lead America??   :lol:  :lol:

Source: National Review (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/439676/clintons-fbi-interview-what-was-cheryl-mills-doing-there)   
Quote

As David and Rich have already noted, the FBI-302 report of the interview of Hillary Clinton, along with the other notes of investigation released today, make for mind boggling reading. Most bracing is the fact that Mrs. Clinton had her server wiped clean sometime between March 25 and 31, 2015, only three weeks after the New York Times on March 3 broke the story of the server system’s existence. David notes that, at the same time the Democrats’ Janus-faced presidential nominee was outwardly taking the position that she “want[ed] the public to see my email,” she was having her minions frantically purge her emails behind the scenes.

I’d add that this was five months before she feigned ignorance when Fox News’s Ed Henry pressed her on whether she’d “tried to wipe the entire server … so there could be no email – no personal, no official.” Henry finally asked, “Did you wipe the server?” Famously, Clinton scoffed, “Like with a cloth or something?” But we now know, as the FBI notes recount, she had the server purged with a sophisticated software program, BleachBit, which eventually made it extraordinarily difficult for the FBI to recover her emails, several thousand of which were successfully destroyed.

And remember: We’ve just learned that 30 emails related to Benghazi were on the server Clinton purged – emails that she never turned over to the State Department despite claiming repeatedly that she’d surrendered all of her government-related emails. I would thus note that the March 2015 purge right after public revelation of the server’s existence occurred long after Mrs. Clinton was well aware of several official government investigations of the Benghazi massacre – one by the State Department, several by Congress, and a judicial proceeding involving the one defendant who has been indicted for the terrorist attack. There were also, quite obviously, several relevant Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) litigations. From what I’ve been able to glean so far, it is not clear from the FBI’s notes (and it was certainly not clear from Director James Comey’s press conference and House testimony) whether any consideration was given to indicting Mrs. Clinton for obstruction of justice and of government investigations – and if not, why not.

Among the most eye-popping claims Clinton made to the FBI was that she was unfamiliar with the markings on classified documents. Yes, you read that correctly: one of the highest ranking national security officials in the United States government – an official whose day-to-day responsibilities extensively involved classified information; who had secure facilities installed in her two homes (in addition to her office) so she could review classified information in them; and who acknowledged to the FBI that, as secretary of state, she was designated by the president as “an Original Classification Authority,” meaning she had the power to determine what information should be classified and at what level – had the audacity to tell the interviewing agents that she did not know what the different classification symbols in classified documents signified.


For example, when asked about an email chain containing the symbol “(C)” – meaning “confidential,” a designation ubiquitous in classified documents – Clinton claimed not to know what it meant and, according to the notes, “could only speculate it was referencing paragraphs marked in alphabetical order.” This is a response so absurd as to be insulting (the interview notes do not tell us if the FBI asked her to find (A), (B) and (D) notations that would be necessary to have the “alphabetical order” story make sense – assuming, for argument’s sake that one would indulge the possibility that this could be a truthful answer from a classified information consumer as high-level as Clinton).

Mind you, Mrs. Clinton was not just secretary of state for four years. She was a United States senator for eight years, during nearly all of which she was assigned to the Senate Armed Services Committee (and such Armed Services components as the Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and Capabilities). Reviewing classified information, including highly sensitive national defense secrets, is a routine part of that committee’s work.

Clinton also claimed that she “did not pay attention to the ‘level’ of classified information.” The interview notes do not explain how the FBI squared this with, for example, (a) Clinton’s acknowledgement that top-secret “special access program” (SAP) information was delivered to her by paper in her office and she knew it was supposed to be handled with extraordinary care; and (b) Clinton’s admission that she made use of her Original Classification Authority at times (though she couldn’t say how often). That means she had to have assigned to some information the very classification levels with which she portrays herself as scarcely familiar.

We also learn in the FBI documents not only that Mrs. Clinton frequently lost her Blackberry devices, but that the FBI failed to account for some thirteen of them, most if not all of which she used while transmitting the over 2,000 classified emails the FBI identified.

Clinton aides told the FBI that her devices – loaded with stored emails – would at times disappear and their whereabouts would become unknown. Interestingly, in the notes of Mrs. Clinton’s interview, the FBI says she told them that her BlackBerry devices would occasionally “malfunction”; when this happened, “[h]er aides would assist in obtaining a new BlackBerry.” I have not yet found indications that the FBI asked her about lost rather than malfunctioning devices.

We do learn, though, that on February 9, 2016, the Justice Department asked Clinton’s lawyers to turn over all 13 mobile devices that the FBI identified as having potentially transmitted emails. Almost two weeks later, on February 22, the lawyers told the FBI “they were unable to locate any of these devices.” As a result, the notes recount, “the FBI was unable to acquire or forensically examine any of these 13 mobile devices.”

Finally, something else about those lawyers. I nearly fell out of my chair upon reading the very first paragraph of the notes of Clinton’s interview, which identifies the lawyers for Clinton who were permitted to be present for the interview. Among them is Cheryl Mills, Clinton’s longtime confidant and chief-of-staff at the State Department.

Readers may recall that I suggested back in May that “the fix” was in in the investigation of the Clinton emails. The reason was that the Justice Department was allowing Cheryl Mills – a witness, if not a subject, of the investigation – to invoke attorney-client privilege on behalf of Mrs. Clinton in order to thwart the FBI’s attempt to inquire into the procedure used to produce Clinton’s emails to the State Department. Mills was a participant in that procedure – and it is the procedure in which, we now know, well over 30,000 emails were attempted to be destroyed, including several thousand that contained government-related business.

When she worked for Clinton at State, Mills was not acting in the capacity of a lawyer – not for then-Secretary Clinton and not for the State Department. Moreover, as Clinton’s chief-of-staff, Mills was intimately involved in issues related to Clinton’s private email set up, the discussions about getting her a secure BlackBerry similar to President Obama’s, and questions that were raised (including in FOIA requests) about Clinton’s communications.

That is to say, Mills was an actor in the facts that were under criminal investigation by the FBI. Put aside that she was not Mrs. Clinton’s lawyer while working for the State Department; as I explained in the May column, Mills, after leaving the State Department, was barred by ethical rules from acting as Mrs. Clinton’s lawyer “in connection with a matter in which the lawyer participated personally and substantially as a public officer or employee.”

There is no way Mills should have been permitted to participate as a lawyer in the process of producing Clinton’s emails to the State Department nearly two years after they’d both left. I thought it was astonishing that the Justice Department indulged her attorney-client privilege claim, which frustrated the FBI’s ability to question her on a key aspect of the investigation. But it is simply unbelievable to find her turning up at Mrs. Clinton’s interview – participating in the capacity of a lawyer under circumstances where Clinton was being investigated over matters in which Mills participated as a non-lawyer government official.

According to the FBI’s report, Mrs. Clinton had four other attorneys (one whose name is deleted from the report for some reason) representing her at the interview. She clearly did not need another lawyer. And it is Criminal Investigations 101 that law enforcement never interviews witnesses together – the point is to learn the truth, not provide witnesses/suspects with an opportunity to keep their story straight, which undermines the search for truth..........continued (but for SHillary, will it ever, ever, end?)


So, what was Mills doing there?

Anyone?

Or, as Hillary might famously interject:

(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/67271926.jpg)

'Crime, once exposed, has no refuge but in audacity.'  ...  Cornelius Tacitus

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-05, 15:39:08
The problem you have is your preferred candidate is Hillary Clinton!
Did I actually say this is the case? I've been hearing Gary Johnson on the radio and he makes some very valid points.
And this excuse maker liar wants to lead America?? 
Have you looked up Trump's lies? While neither can be called honest, Trump's more full of shit than a fertilizer factory. Beside, she was found to have not committed a crime with the emails anyway. Additionally Secretaries Powell and Rice also used private servers. So why is it that you guys are banking so hard on this stupid emails? Because there's nothing positive you can say about Trump? He has got to be the worst candidate ever offered by either of the major parties and again, the worst liar of them all (including either of the Clintons.

"Crooked Hillary" pales in her corruption to Trump. He's the very living incarnation of it. This to be expected of a man doing business with mobsters (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-mafia-linked-figure-describes-association-with-trump/2016/05/17/cec6c2c6-16d3-11e6-aa55-670cabef46e0_story.html#comments) (which he lied about.... )

At this time, I ask you to recall that there's a good chance I'll vote for Johnson not her and I'm far from a Hillary supporter. It's just that the "scandals" the GOP levels against Clinton are hypocrisy at its finest when contrasted with the lies and corruption of Trump.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-09-05, 17:50:33
I've been Gary Johnson on the radio...
Were you Gary Johnson somewhere between Sang and midnight raccoon or do you hold multiple passports simultaneously?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-06, 03:53:36
Just some advice from beyond the grave...

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14192017_1035675496549966_4012664223310582829_n.jpg?oh=e1410a0e8222936f5c4c4290067dbeea&oe=58819FFF)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-06, 05:39:04
As always, Sang, you present as serious an argument as you are capable of… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-06, 07:31:02
Krake, Guccifer 2.0 did use a French VPN
That means that even he is skillful, he isn't a pro. No pro would use a VPN service exept the service is run by himself. ;)
but the IP was traced beyond that.
Nonsense. The've probably obtained the log files from that VPN service.
As I said, it's almost cute that you don't think the FBI and other agencies  can't see beyond the first IP presented...)
There is no magic. Keep on dreaming. :)
Either the intruder makes a blooper or you need the cooperation of the authorities where the IP is coming from.
In the above case aside French authorities (if the VPN service is located in France) they needed the cooperation of at least one more authority. Namely the authorities of the country where the VPN service log files pointed at.

BTW, was it a Russian hacker?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-06, 07:37:32
What serious arguments have I seen in favor of Trump?  Am I meant to provide an in-depth serious response to Smiley's conspiracy gibberish about "Emails!" and "Benghazi!" Fine, but I'm not bothered to type it out so so we have the NY Magazine (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/07/most-corrupt-candidate-ever-is-donald-trump.html)article to read through. It first condemns the Clintons' corruption, but also notes Trump is the most corrupt candidate in US history:

Quote from: NY
Trump is the figure whose corruption stands out on a historic scale, and the notion that disdain for corruption would supply a rationale to elect him is nothing short of bizarre.

That's the last line of the article but here's another good one:

Quote
Trump is flamboyantly corrupt in ways that run to the very core of his identity and prospective governing choices.
Gotta love it. :D What kind of sheeple believe "Crooked Hillary" but don't recognize "Don the Con?"

Hillary is the lesser of two evils. But that's still an evil.  Johnson on the hand, appears to be true libertarian who ran a successful governorship of New Mexico for two terms and deserves a serious look.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-06, 07:41:12
Johnson on the hand, appears to be true libertarian
Good God, Sang, you're actually looking for Kool-Aid to drink…! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-06, 08:03:22
That means that even he is skillful, he isn't a pro. No pro would use a VPN service exept the service is run by himself.
I can see your reasoning in that. Perhaps this why Guccifer 2.0 was so readily identified as Russian. This is a serious problem if the Russian hackers are executing dirty tricks on behalf Trump, especially if it was under orders from the Kremlin. This is the modern day version of Watergate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal) in which GOP operatives burglarized Democratic headquarters to steal documents, except this is even worse since we have a major foreign power trying to change the outcome the election. If Trump himself requested this, he needs to be in prison on multiple accounts, possibly including treason.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-06, 08:04:19
Good God, Sang, you're actually looking for Kool-Aid to drink...!
The entire world's supply of it was used up by Trump supporters. But what's wrong with looking at alternatives to the Democrats and Republicans? Howie's not wrong that these parties are both corrupt.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-06, 08:48:34
Perhaps this why Guccifer 2.0 was so readily identified as Russian. This is a serious problem if the Russian hackers ...
By reading your post I had the (false) impression that Guccifer 2.0 was identified  and caught.
He was readily identified as Russian because that's how propaganda works.
Aside the usual presumptions, is there any stalwart evidence that he is a Russian hacker?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-06, 08:54:13
[…] these parties are both corrupt.
Damn, boy! You're making progress! :) (Now, if you'd only come to recognize the source of the corruption…)
But it's going to take a lot more thikin', to return to our founder's original conception of republican government… Of course, you don't want to go there!

BTW: If Howie told me it was raining, I'd put away my "bumbershoot," knowing I wouldn't need it…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-06, 09:21:02
Guccifer 2.0: All Roads Lead to Russia (https://www.threatconnect.com/blog/guccifer-2-all-roads-lead-russia/)That security firm as well as Crowdstrike (https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/bears-midst-intrusion-democratic-national-committee/)should have all the information you need. The attacks did originate in Russia. Why does this hurt your feelings?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-06, 09:24:08
BTW: If Howie told me it was raining, I'd put away my "bumbershoot," knowing I wouldn't need it...
Or you could look up from the right-wing blog that's poisoning your mind and look out the window...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-06, 22:27:58
Likewise, if you told me it was raining, I'd assume you were making a political point… :) For you, everything is political!
———————————————————————————————
Fred Reed has an argument (http://fredoneverything.org/hillary-trump-and-war-with-russia-the-goddamdest-stupid-idea-i-have-ever-heard-and-i-have-lived-in-washington/) you should be interested in…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-07, 02:28:14
Wish Oakdale was sober when he patters. Anyway last night I seen a passing news item on polls for the election and recent one showed Trump 2% ahead. We know they fluctuate but isn't it a revelation that Trump is showing the level he is??
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-07, 03:34:50
I'm one of those old-fashioned people: I'll wait for the actual election results… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-07, 12:59:35
The attacks did originate in Russia. Why does this hurt your feelings?
Not exactly my feelings but rather my intellect, dear Sang.

- If you read carefully that article you'll notice that even the author admits that he has no stalwart evidence.
Besides, anybody can use a Russian VPN service (the author did himself) and anybody can use a Russian mail service. Only an idiot hacker will use the same mail address for different tasks.
- Not hobby-hackers are the world's real problem. They don't wiretap intercontinental telecommunication cables, international institutions (e.g. the UNO), foreign governments and foreign industrial objects.
- There is a large scale anti-Russian propaganda campaign and 'Russian' hackers are only a small part of a broad picture.
'Russian' hackers are just the first step in the process of demonising leaking platforms like WikiLeaks. Such sites became a thorn in your government's eyes.
As long as the leaks would refer only to pariah countries like Russia, China, Iran,..., such platforms would be great. But leaking documents from Western 'friends' let alone the USA can't be anything else but Putin's propaganda. A platform demasking our incorruptible politicians must be a bolshevik conspiracy that threatens our Western values. Such a bolshevik conspirator is for instance Julian Assange, Putin's undercover KGB agent.
Hence it doesn't come as a surprise that the attention is not focused on what Hillary's mails might reveal but instead on who uploaded them.
It's sad that whoever uploaded them, had to choose (for good reasons) a Russian VPN service. Otherwise the person might be already sitting behind bars.
- The broader picture is the revival of the cold war by all means, something serving US interests but not those of the EU.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-07, 21:21:29
What I find rather strange is the stuff that Clinton came out with that Russian hackers were interfering with the electoral system. Even officialdom had to admit that there was no proof at all on such stuff. However it did not stop the media and newspapers right across the country coming out with the same stuff.  How easy is it to brain people into a Cold war on well nothing?

Oakdale can I say that waiting is an excuse then you will come up trying to show how positive you were!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-08, 00:52:11
Oakdale can I say that waiting is an excuse then you will come up trying to show how positive you were!
As usual, RJ, your inability to express yourself clearly makes it hard for one to respond… :)

Simply put: If Trump wins, I'll hope for the best. If Clinton wins, I'll fear for the worst.

(How's your new PM working out? Any progress on that Brexit thing?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-09-08, 18:27:50
Since I don't like either candidate, I'm going to write in my choice, Queen Elizabeth II. She's not likely to win, but it will make me feel better about my vote.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-09, 01:06:15
Well Queen Elizabeth gets around 80% support so you poor folk are way behind. Neither of the 2 for the White House are very impressive at all but how can someone like Clinton who has the more political experience come out with guff as she has done on things like the election system being infiltrated  when there is no damn proof. The ex-colonists here know deep down that neither Clinton nor Trump will help the millions of fellow country people who are suffering and/or finding things difficult at home. The idea of a man standing without political experience is not a fault in itself it is just unfortunate whop that man is and the woman is a dangerous hawk. Damn shame for the people.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-09, 02:27:06
Such sites became a thorn in your government's eyes.
True enough, but why his all the leaks are on Clinton when Trump has at least as much dirt. Where are the leaks on Trump's mob ties, to Trump University.  They don't seem to exist. Is this because Trump has forged an alliance with Vladimir Putin, the Russian autocrat who crushed freedom of speech under his heel in Russia?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-09, 07:06:17
It's more likely that Trump didn't have the power of the government behind him… He may have done reprehensible things; but not under "color of law".
Do you not see the difference?

Let me give you an example:
I don't know about you :)), but I've often been a jerk. Bothersome, to some people, of course… But if I were a cop on the beat acting like a jerk, the level of harm likely to be caused to civil society escalates considerably. No?
(If you disagree, the whole Black Lives Matter movement is bogus…)
______________
Another curious thing:
Hillary Clinton tells you stuff you know is false, but you don't care… (Of course, you're used to being lied to! :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-09, 14:30:14
Hillary Clinton tells you stuff you know is false, but you don't care... (Of course, you're used to being lied to!  :)  )
How do you feel about Trump's lies? Have you seen his Polifact file? (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/). He actually lied more than he told the truth. It could well be true he's the worst liar on presidential campaign trail in history. Voting for him because one thinks  he's honest is quite bizarre.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-10, 01:25:42
Oh dear oh dear midnight in giving you some credit of your grey cells I muse that I was mistaken. That utter nonsense about Trump and Putinin. Over 80% of Russians support him whether you like it or not and trying to find a US President with such a tally would be difficult. Living in a nation controlled by corporates you really have a nerve. Putin was elected and Russians like strong leaders. I would also have to say that what Trump commented on Putin was nearer the truth on leadership as Obama was a zilch. Clinton comes out with some very unhealthy attitudes to the Russians because she IS a hawk and her attitude is typical. You lot will believe anything drummed into you by a corporate controlled media like all that nonsense I mentioned regarding the Clinton childish of the bear disrupting the electoral system and all your newspapers delivering stupid propaganda. You are so easy to fool being so damn emotional and over-nationalistic.

On top of her nonsense why has she deliberately kept away from press meetings, eh? As a president she will be a dangerous woman on global matters and she will do damn all about the people in their legions in your country who are so bad off. Not one of you has yet been able to tell me she will see to them because you know she damn well won't bother her backside. She is funded by the money barons is a liar and if elected be a head-banger.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-10, 03:22:21
Howie, there's plenty of technical evidence that the attacks originated in Russia. This is not only for Clinton's emails, but also for the election computers in Illinois and Arizona. The later shows this election might be at serious risk for being hacked, so the need for uncovering who did it far exceeds that of trying to falsely excuse Putin. Get it? The FBI and the cybersecurity firms have no interest in claiming Putin did it without cause.
She is funded by the money barons is a liar and if elected be a head-banger.
I'm not sure what you mean by that she's a head-banger (the usual connotation would be that  she's a fan of heavy metal music...), but Trump himself is a "money baron" and the very living definition of corruption and even worse of a liar than she is.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-10, 07:51:26
I think, Sang, that RJ means that he'll be banging his head — carrying on a long tradition: He must have been dropped on his head as a baby! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-10, 19:58:55
You really are like so many over there and just absorb the stuff your controlled media dishes out. Your own would-be brilliant security has NOT produced ANY actual evidence that Russia is involved in what passes for a political system over there. It is a load of nonsense but being brain controlled you accept it. Not one tv station or newspaper has produced any damn thing. Clinton being a hopeless and liar person dishes that stuff out and you just take it in. Mostly because for decades in USSR times Russia was a competitor. When it dumped the Reds and became capitalist you thought there was another big market to get into and like everywhere else control things. However that country with it's  flair and tradition made it clear they would not be controlled. So your political bosses irked as they are run by the corporate business lot were not happy. After years of such infantile propaganda during the Cold War it was easy to brain modern Yanks into anything because so many of you are so politically immature and nationalistic.

You are just mouthing a brained thing and there is NO PROOF. Clinton will be a mess and a global war stimulator and you have still not shown how she is going to deal with the 43 million poor on food stamps the million a year going homeless the gap between the ordinary salaries and the top lot the economy  and so on. So falling back on the Cold war days is a neat trick but that you are taking that in is head shaking! And such a powerful country produces what - Trump and Clinton?  You have serious problems.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-11, 02:27:40
"Controlled media" , Howie? Have you noticed my sources? Nope, you sure haven't.  You're like Krake in the for emotional reasons, the attacks couldn't have originated in Russia. But why do you feel this way, because of your admiration for pre and post-commnunist Russia. This also why deny Russia's underhanded annexation of Crimea and interference in the rest of Ukraine.

You say "no proof" even though the cybersecurity firm that I cite goes into lengthy detail why. Get it? It's not traditional media at all, but a security firm reporting its findings. The only part that's conjecture is the possibility that Putin ordered this on behalf of Trump because of his relationship with Trump and freud with Clinton. Where's your or Krake's data suggesting the attacks came from elsewhere? Oh, I get it. There's no data that can even begin to say that.


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-11, 02:56:47
Tell us, Howie and Krake, why would a non-Russian have metadata in Russian throughout his files? Guccifer 2.0 claimed to Romanian but speaks very poor Romanian (even Google Translate Romanian.) Not only is his metadata in Russian, but even his sentence structure is Russian when he tries to speak Romanian.

It's easy to spot someone that doesn't speak the language he claims to. For instance somebody can claim to a Mexican online and attempt to post in Spanish, but if his noun/adjective order is incorrect for Spanish; you know right away that he's lying. It was problems like that first told investigators that Guccifer 2.0 was not Romanian as he (or they) claimed to be. After this, his metadata was analyzed and sure enough, it was in Russian.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-09-11, 06:16:40
When they start callin' you Racist, that means they're losing the argument!    (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/taunt.gif)

:yikes:  Both the Clintons are throwing the Race Card left, right, & center, proof positive their campaign is in deep shyte, & they're floundering for a desperate breath.....cough......cough......cough...........while the Trump Tsunami starts to take them under......wave, after wave, after wave.........................

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txq-eSlxBIQ[/VIDEO]

 :cheers:

Not being a visibly well woman by any account, will she be able to take the relentless Trump onslaught, & vicious bombardment she surely must know will be coming form every direction ... even from within over the next 2 months?

You've got to know it wont be pretty, & Trump always goes for the kill when he smells blood in the water!  :lol:  :devil:  :chef:
 

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fbestanimations.com%2FAnimals%2FFish%2FSharks%2Fmany-sharks-swimming-ocean-animated-gif-2.gif&hash=fa58d11afcbd1bc2a21a9e197c06b359" rel="cached" data-hash="fa58d11afcbd1bc2a21a9e197c06b359" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://bestanimations.com/Animals/Fish/Sharks/many-sharks-swimming-ocean-animated-gif-2.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-11, 09:46:46
@midnight raccoon

Don't panic Sang.
The leader of the Free World has once again two great candidates for presidency.
The two hopefully candidates aren't the result neither of 'Russian' hackers nor of 'Russian' metadata.
They are the result of the best electoral system, Americans are so proud of.
Be confident that America will get the best President, money can buy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-11, 16:19:30
Oh I agree with your sarcastic intent and we certainly can't blame the quality of the Trump and Clinton on hackers of any nationality.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-11, 19:32:10
Hillary's state of health will rise new questions - not only among Trump's supporters.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzZl9j580tM[/video]

In case Hillary will become President, the person who'll get the nomination for vice president could become the real winner of this campaign - a person nobody did vote for.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-11, 23:40:08
May I remind brained moonlight that not one newspaper nor television station could confirm the Russia nonsense. It very ably fitted into Clinton's bullying and very hawkish stance. Government sources have came out with guff that it could have been but proof? nope. Too many over there are so emotionally controlled they accept any such nonsense.

Try telling me what Clinton would do for the big groups of people I mentioned and why is such so patent;ly ignored as it involves tens of millions of your own suffering people??There are Americans who do not just accept any old cobblers dished out by the corporate media but unfortunately too many do not follow sense. On top of that nonsense i the media nonsense because Trump was interviewed on the Russia Today network. May I remind the brained over there that Larry King has been a life-long interviewer of many different people but that pro-Clinton using Russia as a ploy stupidity does well amongst the legions of easily controlled minds.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-11, 23:50:04
May I remind brained moonlight that not one newspaper nor television station could confirm the Russia nonsense.
Isn't there? (https://www.google.com/?client=opera#q=russian+attacks+election) :p Of course, your television and newspapers are relics of the past. These days you would need go to technical blogs and even access the security firms investigating the situation. The foresenics indicates the attacks were by a Russian and originated from within that country.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-12, 00:49:54
Try telling me what Clinton would do for the big groups of people I mentioned and why is such so patent;ly ignored as it involves tens of millions of your own suffering people?
Why do you use the same primitive talking points repeatedly against Clinton? You do you think Trump will help the "millions?" Think Clinton is a hawk? Well, did you hear Trump's comments about Iran? You're correct that Clinton has a neocon foreign policy, but Trump has shown that his might be even worse. The more you learn about his guy, the worse he is.

May I remind you that I am not a Clinton supporter. I'm leaning towards Gary Johnson. Here's Johnson's foreign policy:
https://www.johnsonweld.com/foreign_policy_and_national_defense

Quote
Looking back over the past couple of decades, it is difficult to see how the wars we have waged, the interventions we have conducted, the lives sacrificed, and the trillions of tax dollars we have spent on the other side of the globe have made us safer. If anything, our meddling in the affairs of other nations has made us less safe.

Many senior military and foreign policy analysts have concluded that the rise of ISIS can actually be traced back to instability created by our meddling in the affairs of others. This is because the last several administrations, both Republican and Democrat, have used our military resources to pursue undemocratic regime changes, embark on impossible nation-building exercises, and to establish the United States as the policeman of the world.

This imperialistic foreign policy makes it easier for ISIS, Al Qaeda, and other violent extremists to recruit new members. We need to build a strong military. But we should not use our military strength to try to solve the world’s problems. Doing so creates new enemies and perpetual war.

Besides, we have enough problems to solve right here at home.

As President, Gary Johnson will move quickly and decisively to cut off the funding on which finance violent extremist armies depend. He will repair relationships with our allies. And he will only send our brave soldiers to war when clearly authorized by Congress after meaningful, transparent deliberation and debate.

The idea that we can defeat terrorism by simply putting more boots on the ground or dropping more bombs ignores the reality that this expensive tactic simply hasn’t worked. In fact, it’s made the situation worse.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-12, 01:08:57
the last several administrations, both Republican and Democrat, have used our military resources to pursue undemocratic regime changes, embark on impossible nation-building exercises, and to establish the United States as the policeman of the world.
Which of these…? Johnson is all over the place, on foreign policy. But he'd like to legalize recreational pot…
Some consolation, for a lack of a coherent view; and quite understandable, at that! :)
the rise of ISIS can actually be traced back to instability created by our [Europe's] meddling in the affairs of others
…You know, like, HISTORY, man?! :) (They used to teach it in school…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-09-12, 03:26:32
What about Hillary's health issues.

Sure, she collapses, is rushed off obviously gravely ill, then there's a matter in fact release that says she is suffering from pneumonia.

Poor Hillary.....hope she rests & gets well.

But.......

Then,  :jester:  out of the blue, we find out she wasn't taken to an urgent care facility, she was at her daughters triage apartment, & she basically emerges clicking her heals, singing & dancing to the paparazzi tune ..... Everything's Honky Dorey ..... 2 short hours after being carted off gravely ill?

Forgive me, but are we to be so naive to believe the malady's she's been suffering from all along.....for weeks......are all attributable to a simple case of a 70 year old's pneumonia?

Sorry, I just can't buy it.....that dog don't hunt!    :sherlock:

Is it only me? What do you think?
   :sherlock:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-09-12, 03:56:51
Poll: Unconscious Clinton more fit to be President than conscious Trump (http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/poll-unconscious-clinton-more-fit-to-be-president-than-conscious-trump) (Borowitz)

Quote
In a hypothetical matchup between a Clinton who has been rendered completely unconscious and a fully sentient Trump, voters chose an inert Clinton over an ambulatory Trump by a margin of nine percentage points.

A spokesperson for the Clinton campaign hailed the findings. “We have every reason to believe that Hillary Clinton will be a fully conscious President,” the spokesperson said. “But even if she is not, she is still the far better choice.”

The same poll revealed that a broad majority of voters found an unconscious Donald Trump more fit to be President than a conscious one.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-12, 05:33:03
Do any Europeans know the difference between humor and Schadenfreude?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-09-12, 06:11:06
The two posts above yours should illustrate the latter and former respectively.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-12, 06:13:24
Quote
In a hypothetical matchup between a Clinton who has been rendered completely unconscious and a fully sentient Trump, voters chose an inert Clinton over an ambulatory Trump

There might be a valid point that an unconscious Hillary could be the better President - not only compared to a conscious Trump but also compared to a conscious Hillary.

Hillary Clinton: “We are not putting ground troops into Iraq ever again, and we’re not putting ground troops into Syria. We’re going to defeat ISIS without committing American ground troops.”

Quote
There’s just one problem: the number of American troops deployed to Iraq has been rising steadily in the past few years and will most likely continue to for a long time. In Syria, the U.S. has made no secret of the fact there are special operations forces on the ground now, some of whom recently came under fire from Syrian warplanes.
source (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-10/media-slams-gary-johnsons-aleppo-gaffe-ignores-even-worse-one-hillary)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-12, 06:25:32
Do any Europeans know the difference between humor and Schadenfreude?
You are aware that "Schadenfreude" is a borrowed word.
Since it is borrowed from an European language, your question is funny at least, not to say stupid. ;)

BTW,
How would you translate: Er ist schadenfroh.
:)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-12, 06:27:15
Europe never seems to clean up it's own messes… One wonders why? :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-12, 06:28:15
You are aware that "Schadenfreude" is a borrowed word.
Yes: We borrowed it from the barbarians… We do know now that that's how they think.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-09-12, 06:38:26
The first half of the word is present in some English words as well, like scathing (or for that matter the Czech car brand Škoda, now a Volkswagen product, is a cognate as well). Freude on the other hand seems to have been lost to the English language, apart from the close cousin frolic

Clearly joy was reserved for the Norman invaders, though then again they also brought in toil.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-12, 06:45:01
You do know, jax, that none of what you said makes any sense to Americans…? :)

It's the mind-set that matters: Europeans understand it instinctively and immediately, that term. American have to be "schooled"…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-09-12, 06:53:18
Hardly. Glee has taken the same lexical niche, and there may be a substrate of mirth
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-12, 09:16:50
Your grasp of English is less sure than I'd thought… Neither glee nor mirth have connotations anywhere similar to the term Schadenfreude; we'd use additional words to express such. (Perhaps because it wasn't readily understandable? :) )
I stand by my explication of European understanding of the term.
And Krake's calling me stupid amounts to saying I don't share his prejudices… Ouch! Isn't that what kept Europe at war for three or four centuries?

No wonder simpletons like Trump consider just staying out of whatever mess you have, "over there"…
But, Jeez. wouldn't you like us to be isolationists again? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-09-12, 10:12:52
You should read what's written. It is generally a good idea. Subsequently you can make hypotheses on intent. If you use the Google- dictionary

glee ɡliː/ noun
noun: glee; plural noun: glees
1. great delight, especially from one's own good fortune or another's misfortune.

Mirth is far more subtle. No dictionary entry would define mirth in the sense of schadenfreude, that has to be picked up from other cues, but mirth is one of the words likely to be picked for expressing the enjoyment of someone else's misfortunes. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-12, 11:39:46
It's the mind-set that matters: Europeans understand it instinctively and immediately, that term. American have to be "schooled"…
Wasn't it you first trying to "schoole" Europeans about the meaning of "Schadenfreude"?
Do any Europeans know the difference between humor and Schadenfreude?

Go on Oak, you're consistent like a fart in the wind. ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-09-12, 12:35:55
Honky Dorey
"Hunky dory"*
that dog don't hunt!
"that dog won't hunt"*

Sry, Had to get that in there while the getting was good. Carry on.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-09-12, 13:19:56
Your grasp of English is less sure than I'd thought... Neither glee nor mirth have connotations anywhere similar to the term Schadenfreude; we'd use additional words to express such. (Perhaps because it wasn't readily understandable?  :)  )
I stand by my explication of European understanding of the term.
Although I imagine that your pompousness about the supposed evil mentality of "Europeans"[1] is humorous,[2] in case you aren't I'll just add that schaden is a qualifier. In other words, freude is joy/happiness and schaden is sorrow/suffering. Germans are quite literally saying joy at suffering, i.e., they're using "additional words to express such." The fact that German orthography makes it schadenfreude rather than schaden freude is irrelevant.
Only a sizable minority natively speaks German.
I think it was Europeans who came up with such celebrations of schadenfreude as Laurel & Hardy, The Three Stooges, America's Funniest Home Videos… keeping in mind that Americans are Europeans too. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-12, 21:33:37
It is so easy to get stuck on moonlight's ridiculous nonsense about Russian interference in the political machine when it has not been proved at all. All we have had are a thing being thought up and then dished out and trying to convince people there could be something in it. It is the old story of creating propaganda to  emphasise a wrong direction. Because a hawk like Clinton comes out with this and nods her head with a "I know" look" means sod all.  Instead it is the routine tripe of constantly and cleverly repeating nonsense. No proof just brained ex-colonists as per usual.

On a wider and more serious stance will those who dismiss Trump for various reasons and expound the experience of Clinton please answer my queries on the unfortunate people - please? If she is so more suitable why no answer. Why too does she keep away from the idea of media interviews? But mainly the lack of a direction and help for millions is ridiculously ignored on this forum.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-09-12, 23:44:00
The Clinton Lady has really very very... uncommon behaviors.
These elections are a total farce between an idiot and a... I really don't know how to categorize what's happening with the Democrat candidate.

Change the constitution, reelect Obama again and wait for when you have candidates instead of aberrations.
That's the only way to stop such an unbelievable freak show.

Most Americans don't deserve it. (I want to believe so,)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-13, 02:45:45
At least get my name right, Howie :p

These elections are a total farce between an idiot and a... I really don't know how to categorize what's happening with the Democrat candidate.
You are correct, sir! But I'm not really sure how this makes it any different from the rest of our elections, though :confused:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-13, 06:05:21
If you use the Google- dictionary
I don't; it's inferior… :)

@jax: BTW, did you think Borowitz's column was actual news? Did you intend others to take it as such? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-09-13, 10:25:35
That's why I marked it with "(Borowitz)", and, since he's a fairly obscure comic, quoted enough of the article to make it obvious that it was humour.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-13, 13:57:07
Hillary's state of health will rise new questions - not only among Trump's supporters.
Her health episode was something millions of Americans suffer from every year. She had walking pneumonia, which you can have for days without even knowing it but now she's apparently recovered. This is hardly uncommon. The real questions is why some in the press are now proclaiming Trump's Clinton health conspiracy theory as serious campaign issue. In addition to the walking pneumonia, she also had allergies. Just of out curiosity, I googled the number of Americans with her type of allergies (https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=number+of+americans+with+allergies&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) and it turns out to be 50,000,000, breaking down to 30 percent of adults and 40 percent of children. This is hardly a sign of overall bad health. Regardless of her health (probably fine or even above average for 68 year old), she's still better than the crazed goon the GOP is offering. Trump is the sick one, in the head.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-14, 01:26:58
In fairness Trump did say he hoped she would get better soon. Clinton does seem to have a problem with stamina more than the present thing which is passing.  Didn't her husband speak on the matter? For countless people in the country it will not make a damn difference whether Trump or Clinton gets in and that is a hard truth that is danced away from.  The present system is so entrenched and  an economical mess that will one day go too far and that will be unfortunate and sad. You folk over there need a new revolution but FOR the people in the real sense of the word.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-14, 06:33:14
In other words, "Who's your daddy?" Your answer is: The Government! (It worked so well, in the Soviet Union and Maoist China… Why not try it here? :) )
Your premise, that the government's "job" is to "take care of the people" is anathema to most Americans… We flirted with socialism for the first 40 years of the last century; then, for 20 more during the 60s and 70s. What we got was — well, we almost became a typical European nation.
Where would that leave you and the rest of them?

But, take heart: If Trump wins, you'll likely find out! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-14, 09:56:49
Since this is the thread RJ usually drops his "poor Americans" tripe, I'll link to this (http://dailysignal.com/2016/09/13/15-facts-about-poverty-in-us-government-buries/?utm_source=TDS_Email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MorningBell&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTm1NNE5ESXdaVGczTlRjMCIsInQiOiJySzBsREFFRWdKOHdaSEdHb0FcL0d1M254emZGMlViOEVPSktWdHFSRVNuNTBpaitvUnRKRG1DMWRWeU4rVmRHZzlVd3NJUkN5TW9Cano5WU80Y1F5RUJtNGlXN0lpV0pEWThUT25WSlY5Z3c9In0%3D)…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-14, 09:59:07
The real questions is why some in the press are now proclaiming Trump's Clinton health conspiracy theory as serious campaign issue. In addition to the walking pneumonia, she also had allergies.
For many Americans the question is what other diseases in addition to her 'walking pneumonia' and her 'allergies' might surface in future.
By simply labeling those questions as "Trump's Clinton health conspiracy theory" might backfire in a not so distant future...
Speaking of conspiracy theories, wonder which one will make the headlines next. ;)
How about: Hillary Clinton poisoned by Putin's KGB (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/09/12/the-man-who-discovered-cte-thinks-hillary-clinton-may-have-been-poisoned/)  :right:

However, I couldn't care less whether your next President will be Clinton, Trump or anybody else.
IMO, (Hillary's vice president) Biden has best chances to become your next President. Namely in case she wins, I doubt that she will stay in office for long...
It's the direction things are moving to - at least from my perspective, watching the circus from the other side of the pond. :)

BTW,

[video]https://youtu.be/q5mYx5oCxEg[/video]

I added the source (http://www.vidzette.com/index.php/2016/09/12/analysis-of-hillarys-911-event/#comments), so you can read the comments or add your own. ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-14, 17:21:54
.From the get-go, the video is factually incorrect. The "unspecified" illness is specified as the treatmeant. Towards the end of the video, the nutjob is making up that she has Parkinson's. Good thing she's not like that guy's mamgo messiah, or the jackass would find himself sued. Every idiotic conspiracy theory has been thrown at Clinton. This election isn't about the issues, it's just character assassination against Clinton by the media and the worst scumbag to ever disgrace a national election.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-14, 20:09:00
IMO, (Hillary's vice president) Biden has best chances to become your next President.
Eh? Biden is Obama's VP, and he's not on November's ticket…
—————————————————————————————
BTW, good catch (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=315.msg65701#msg65701) above, Frenzie! :) Specially, footnote 2.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-14, 22:03:12
Eh? Biden is Obama's VP, and he's not on November's ticket…
You are right. I meant the person who'll become VP under her presidency, whoever that person will be.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-15, 09:21:00
Nah, she has nothing terminal and just had commonn malady. Impeachment is fodder for gullible Trump supporters, especially since she been cleared of criminal wrong doing. However a hypothetical President Trump does have impeachment hanging over his head with Trump University fraud and how deep his ties to the mob go, etc.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-09-15, 09:42:45
While the Congress seems very flexible in what constitutes "High Crimes and Misdemeanors", I don't think it will be flexible on the requirement that those acts have to be done while in office, so unless he'll continue any alleged crimes in office, Congress will have to find some other reason for impeachment.

Trump being Trump, and not all that popular in the Republican party, might actually run the risk of following Dilma Rousseff's lead and be the first US President removed from office. In which case say hello to President Pence, who would be the first alliterative President since President Pierce.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-15, 11:57:17
might actually run the risk of following Dilma Rousseff's lead and be the first US President removed from office.
Since you refer to Brazil - are you comparing the US establishment with the gang of thieves who have impeached Dilma Rousseff?  :left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-09-15, 12:30:01
Not directly, but I am not convinced that impeachment as enshrined in many constitutions actually works by intention.

In a country where a single person amasses much power, like USA, France, Russia, I can see the need for a mechanism to remove that person from office if he or she turns into a latter-day Caligula, commits gross abuses of office or becomes a Godfather-in-Chief.

The process led to the resignation of Nixon, and that must be said to be a win for impeachment. But if you look at the processes held not only in the US but internationally, and not just recently, but since those constitutions were drafted, most of these can be classified as petty.

I don't know enough about Rousseff to say much about her performance as President, but the reasons given for removing her were underwhelming, basically "because we can".
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-09-15, 17:14:35
Her performance as President was disastrous, and she was impeached right according to the constitution.
The problem is: the constitution allows a gang of thieves to impeach whomever they want, basically "because they can". The final impeachment session wasn't a judgment: it was a poll.
You better check your constitutions about how it's going to work there. :right:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-09-15, 23:12:51
The final impeachment session wasn't a judgment: it was a poll.
That's called democracy. Enjoy.

Except for Barulheira and myself no one here is able to understand the problem.
DnD can't discuss "everything under the sun".
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-09-16, 05:21:16
[glow=black,2,300]Democrat Trivia Time[/glow]

Part I:

A. Back off and let those men who want to marry men, marry men.

B. Allow those women who want to marry women, marry women.

C. Allow those folks who want to abort their babies, abort their babies.

D. In three generations, there will be very few Democrats.



Part II:

Ten Poorest Cities in America  (How did it happen?)

City, State, % of People Below the Poverty Level



1. Detroit, MI 32.5%

2. Buffalo, NY 29.9%

3. Cincinnati, OH 27.8%

4. Cleveland, OH 27.0%

5. Miami, FL 26.9%

5. St. Louis, MO 26.8%

7. El Paso, TX 26.4%

8. Milwaukee, WI 26.2%

9. Philadelphia, PA 25.1%

10. Newark, NJ 24.2%



What do these top ten cities (over 250,000 pop.) with the highest poverty rate all have in common?



Detroit, MI - (1st on poverty rate list) hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1961

Buffalo, NY - (2nd) hasn't elected one since 1954

Cincinnati, OH - (3rd) not since 1984

Cleveland, OH - (4th) not since 1989

Miami, FL - (5th) has never had a Republican mayor

St. Louis, MO - (6th) not since 1949

El Paso, TX - (7th) has never had a Republican mayor

Milwaukee, WI - (8th) not since 1908

Philadelphia, PA - (9th) not since 1952

Newark, NJ - (10th) not since 1907



[glow=green,2,300]Einstein once said, 'The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.' [/glow]

It is the poor who habitually elect Democrats... yet they are still POOR.



Part III:

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.

You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.

You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence.

You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."  ~Abraham Lincoln



"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him had better take a much closer look at the American Indian."  ~Henry Ford



Six trivia questions to see how much history you really know.  Be honest; it's kind of fun and revealing.  If you don't know the answer, make your best guess.  Answer all of the questions (no cheating) before looking at the answers.



1) "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

A. Karl Marx              B. Adolph Hitler          C.  Joseph Stalin

D. Barack Obama                E. None of the above



2) "It's time for a new beginning, for an end to government of the few, by the few, and for the few... and to replace it with shared responsibility, for shared prosperity."


A. Lenin                    B. Mussolini                C. Idi Amin

D. Barack Obama                E. None of the above



3) "(We).... can't just let business as usual go on, and that means something has to be taken away from some people."


A. Nikita Khrushchev    B.  Joseph Goebbels    C. Boris Yeltsin

D. Barack Obama                E. None of the above



4) "We have to build a political consensus and that requires people to give up a little bit of their own ... in order to create this common ground."

A. Mao Tse Tung        B. Hugo Chavez          C. Kim Jong II

D. Barack Obama                E. None of the above



5) "I certainly think the free-market has failed."

A.  Karl Marx              B. Lenin                    C. Molotov

D. Barack Obama                E. None of the above



6) "I think it's time to send a clear message to what has become the most profitable sector in (the) entire economy that they are being watched."

A. Pinochet                B. Milosevic                C. Saddam Hussein

D. Barack Obama                E. None of the above



No peeking!






Scroll down for answers...







(1)  E. None of the above.  Statement was made by Hillary Clinton
6/29/2004



(2)  E. None of the above.  Statement was made by Hillary Clinton
5/29/2007



(3)  E. None of the above.  Statement was made by Hillary Clinton
6/4/2007



(4)  E. None of the above.  Statement was made by Hillary Clinton
6/4/2007



(5)  E. None of the above.  Statement was made by Hillary Clinton
6/4/2007



(6)  E. None of the above.  Statement was made by Hillary Clinton
9/2/2005
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-09-16, 06:04:38
Ten Poorest Cities in America  (How did it happen?)
Cars and segregation.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-16, 06:18:04
I had already seen that video by the doctor  and was an interesting item. Anyway midnight going bananas on the media? Up until now it kind of struck me the media had been leaning towards her but there is something even more odd. I know she will be spending a great deal of time and effort on a campaign and can have an effect but there is something really puzzling about her. For months she has avoided being interviewed by them so why is that? Trump doesn't mind being interviewed by the papers so why is she keeping a distance?

This Presidential Election is one of the most controversial for a long time and why isn't there more coming out on actual policies and details that will help the ordinary people??  Her side is so well into the corporate camp so they cannot moan at anyone else and on top of that she is a very hawkish and war freak person. So maybe someone will be honest or more practical and say why she ignores the reporters?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-16, 15:13:53
Up until now it kind of struck me the media had been leaning towards her but there is something even more odd.
Are you kidding? They're going over her with a fine toothed comb, but often Trump outright lies and inaccurate statements are barely reported. Clinton's emails are in the news almost daily, despite the fact they show nothing and yet Trump defrauding his "students" got only a brief mention. Trump's other morally/ethically challenged behavior gets no mention at all in the mainstream media. It almost seems as if the maistream media supports Trump.

Oh yeah, about her supposedly not speaking to the media..http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-hillary-clinton-tim-kaine-democratic-ticket-scott-pelley/

Why are you being into Trumo's bullshit? Oh yes, because she's "Miss Bossy Boots" , which means you can't stand a woman with authority.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-17, 00:37:18
For all the emotional shouting from you on Clinton as some kind of more practical person than Trump is something else. She is way ahead on the corporate money corner as you should well know living there. Two additional occasions of speaking to corporate companies gave her a 6 figure each for showing her support for them.  Somehow because of Trump she is somehow an automatic wonder woman?  We already know how war footing a mind she has but maybe you can tell us what her policies are please on those big sections of the population I mention but we don't get an answer on?  You know fine well that there ARE many sensible Americans who as it happens fail to trust her. That your country fancies Trump so much is your problem boy and you have no answer unless you follow her stupidity when she had to apologise for going over the score. I didn't push a button for millions of ex-colonists to flock behind Trump you did that well yourselves! That both Trump and Clinton are so close in the polls is your problem and you cannot handle that as it shows something very negative about an awful lot of your fellow country men and women. Snarling at me is just another body-swerve  so please do tell us what she will do regarding policies on the vast poor and suffering people and that would be more sensible and appreciated.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-17, 02:06:44
She is way ahead on the corporate money corner as you should well know living there.
You keeping saying this but Trump IS the corporate money corner. Trump supporters like to claim he isn't beholden to Wall Street interests. The fact that he IS a Wall Street interest eludes their tiny minds.
We already know how war footing a mind she has but maybe you can tell us what her policies are please on those big sections of the population I mention but we don't get an answer on?
You somehow think he's better on this regard? He threatened war on Iran because some Iranian sailors evidently made rude hand gestures at an American ship.
Snarling at me is just another body-swerve  so please do tell us what she will do regarding policies on the vast poor and suffering people and that would be more sensible and appreciated.
You also keep saying this, but what's Trump going to do? He's only out for himself and the probable reason he wants to be president is to enrich himself (sending business from the US government to his companies, etc)

You just repeat the same things about Clinton, without taking into account he's the same (and worse) and each of your complaints.

 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-18, 01:54:28
I recall watching a programme on tv which indicated that the democrats via Obama drew in more from the corporates than the republicans. As for Clinton we are constantly being leaned on that she and her side ar automatically a better deal for the people than Trump. We know Trump is a big money man but it IS Clinton who is getting a big deal from the Wall Street lot even if it does not suit to hear it. As for repeating a stance that has had to be made because one does NOT get an answer to a direct question so will try again raccoon.

If Clinton and the Democrats are a better deal why can't you tell me what she and them will do for the millions on food stamps, house loss and so on? If the Democrats are somehow a better deal for the people why cannot you answer these points from the Democrats corner?? For all the faults that trump has I fail to see how the democrats are somehow the people of vision when those questions of mine cannot or will not be answered. She has not come out with anything poistive yet just like trump shouting out slogans and you know fine well that she is getting more from the corporate interest whether you like it to be mentioned or not. She is also a war woman too and confrontational. Many of your compatriots who are level headed do not take to her either and get by with the old lesser than two evils waste of time nonsense. In addition many people are sighing over the political system and feel it is no doing what it is meant to do for so many of the people. Definitive polices at home and shutting damn bases you have on the hundreds would reduce the constant trillions of debt or even help the tens of millions of poor you are ignoring because you have no answer,

The problem is with the big money controllers and the system has been corrupted and flawed with more and more realsing that.Sanders in a way was a welcome different direction but you are stuck with the big 2 and neither has a great candidate unfortunately. Many realise that now.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-18, 07:28:42
I recall watching a programme on tv which indicated that the democrats via Obama drew in more from the corporates than the republicans.
I'll not reply to the rest of this, RJ… But Obama was the first candidate for the presidency to eschew public financing (and the limits it requires) in modern history.
And, yes, he spent more than anyone ever had: Not bad for a junior senator who hadn't even finished one term! (:) the Dems are good at getting money, eh?)  I expect the same from Clinton.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-18, 14:01:34
you are stuck with the big 2 and neither has a great candidate unfortunately. Many realise that now.
On that account, you're not wrong. I was wondering why you were harping on Clinton when every negative you can say also applies to Trump (often even worse.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-18, 19:42:23
The point I am making midnight I would have thought was in honesty very practical. The impressions is always been the trait that the Democrats in general are a better breed in the system but when one asks about the very big and negative things like the points I have raised Hilary Clinton never speaks on them and when i ask if the Democrats are so much the better brand why do they not say anything about the levels of unemployment the 43 million poor and the million as year losing homes|?? These very in the face tragic negatives are ignored and that includes the routine of a forum. If the Democrats are even in the stuck big two system the more positive why are we getting no answers to these serious and important points. That needs to be expressed here on this thread.

Unfortunately in the rather restricted way of the big two tens of millions of the suffering are bypassed and unfortunately that tradition does so here. I only wish that such a dismal thing was answered here but even the thinking cannot because the 2 parties do a body-swerve and if the Democrats are viewed as being broader based why the silence? I also stick by the view that she was th wrong person for her party to take on and she is a very world conversationalist. So what is Clinton and the democrats stance on the subjects I refer to?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-09-18, 23:28:54
The MSM has had a meltdown, a flat out apoplectic fit. (https://i.imgsafe.org/342daf5.gif)(https://i.imgsafe.org/342daf5.gif)(https://i.imgsafe.org/342daf5.gif)

Jimmy Fallon broke one of their cardinal rules.....don't let Donald Trump look like anything but a bad guy, a monster, a Hitleresque Nazi, ....& don't, by any means whatsoever let him enjoy himself in the public eye ... like a 'regular' guy would...... well they've gone absolutely apoplectic!

Livid because of this:


[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPh_raqO_A0[/video]

Then it led to this, something I never thought I'd ever see Trump let someone do.....ever.....

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0BYqzdiuJc[/video]

Words out, Fallon want's to do a strip search of Hillary next week......& she's so hard up to get her campaign on track she's thinkin' about it!.....stay tuned! (https://i.imgsafe.org/080eb5d.gif)


(link) See how the MSM & the Progressive left has taken to Fallon's Trump spot.
 They didn't like Fallon's "normalization" of Trump .. not one lil bit!!
(http://tinyurl.com/h89lpsv)



Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-19, 01:19:10
I also stick by the view that she was th wrong person for her party to take on and she is a very world conversationalist. So what is Clinton and the democrats stance on the subjects I refer to?
Her stance on those issues is no mystery, just check her website (https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/). Meanwhile Trump's economic stances are the same failed "trickle down" economic policies that no longer work because the money gets hoarded by robber barons like him and not invested in jobs.

You speak of poverty in the US. Poverty in the US is actually declining.
http://www.census.gov/library/publications/2016/demo/p60-256.html

Quote
Poverty:
The official poverty rate in 2015 was 13.5 percent, down 1.2 percentage points from 14.8 percent in 2014.

In 2015, there were 43.1 million people in poverty, 3.5 million less than in 2014.

The 2015 poverty rate was 1.0 percentage point higher than in 2007, the year before the most recent recession.

For most demographic groups, 2015 poverty rates and estimates of the number of people in poverty decreased from 2014.
Between 2014 and 2015, poverty rates decreased for all three major age groups. The poverty rate for children under age 18 dropped 1.4 percentage points, from 21.1 percent to 19.7 percent. Rates for people aged 18 to 64 dropped 1.1 percentage points, from 13.5 percent to 12.4 percent. Poverty rates for people aged 65 and older decreased 1.1 percentage points, from 10.0 percent to 8.8 percent.


Maybe you really do think America is a land of suffering and poverty, but I assure it you that it isn't and progress is being made in this regard. However, CNN Money (http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/14/news/economy/donald-trump-economic-plan-1-trillion/index.html)tells us Trump's policies would cost the US economy a trillion dollars and four million jobs.

Quote
Oxford Economics found that if fully implemented, Trump's economic, tax and immigration policies would cost 4 million U.S. jobs, weigh down global growth and U.S. consumer spending, and could spark a trade war with other nations.
"Combining these policies together, the impact could be significantly negative for the U.S. economy," says Jamie Thompson, head of macro scenarios at Oxford Economics.
Oxford's figures are in line with other analysis.

What's that going to do to the poverty? We can't let him get elected and wreck this havoc on the US and global economies. Clinton's policies contain no magic bullet that will fix all the problems. A candidate that makes this claim is either an idiot or lying. Oh wait, Trump pretty much makes this claim....

Incidentally,   the income-based poverty rate in the UK is at 16.8% (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/articles/persistentpovertyintheukandeu/2014). well above that of the US :left: Again, the size of the America's population generates large numbers, but as a percentage, America's poverty isn't that that bad. It's easy to say "43 million on foodstamps!", yes but out of country of ~320,000,000.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-19, 01:45:56
The MSM has had a meltdown, a flat out apoplectic fit.
Hyperbole, of course.

The problem is his softball questions.

Quote
—This is getting real. You still have time, do you still want to do this?

—There's kids watching at home right now ... Why should they want to grow up and be president?

—Did you always see yourself getting into politics?

—Do you think your business background helps you with campaigning?

—What has changed, from when you started running to now?

—Do you pay attention to the polls?

—You said, “If [Putin] says great things about me, I'll say great things about him.” Um?

—You say you don't traditionally prepare for the debate?

—Do you know what a coin is, by the way?

—Have you ever played the board game Sorry?

—Hillary getting sick, you handled that very well, saying you hoped she gets better. Have you gotten close to getting sick this whole campaign?

—How do you not get sick from shaking all those hands?

—I've read you eat fast food all the time?

—You're from Queens?

—Why would you excel at this job?

—How would your co-workers and peers describe you?

—What do you like to do outside of work? Do you have any hobbies?

—Why do you want to leave your current job?

—What will you do if you don't get this position?

—Could I mess your hair up?

What a milquetoast wuss, an obsequious little pansy. Is it even possible for a nose to get more brown? I think not.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-09-19, 03:10:37
......The problem is his softball questions........

Awwww, do da poor, poor leftists have a problem because Trump was on a late night comedy/entertainment program, having a chat with an entertainer, kind of entertainer to entertainer, are they expecting that anyone associated with the MSM must, under orders, only pose hardball political questions or demonstrations?  Smiling, chatting, making the audience applaud, & laugh, joking......all forbidden under MSM political brown shirt guidelines?

Late night entertainment/comedy talk show hosts must be firm & hard on anyone that comes before them!  Right?

Like unscrewing an already open jar of pickles?

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P2bmfiisVU[/VIDEO]

I bet SHillary sweated that one out......she exerted a powerful lot of energy opening that already open jar didn't she? 

Why was she laughing, the host was dead serious.....right!?  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/big%20laugh%20007.gif)

Or, maybe Jimmy Fallon was the shrewd interviwer here......playing hardball with the soon to be pneumonia riddled Hills?

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiDFL8tgn0Q[/VIDEO]

Now, did the MSM give either one of those shows harsh reviews for being soft on SHillary?? ...... OF COURSE NOT!! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/taunt.gif)

'Coony, you're a joke! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lolfun.gif)

Your whole defense & explanation was a shameful joke!! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/taunt.gif) 




Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-19, 14:08:51
e they expecting that anyone associated with the MSM must, under orders, only pose hardball political questions or demonstrations?
Why not? Clinton gets sick for a few days and its like she won't even survive one term in office for health reasons all because Crooked Donald has been engaging a conspiracy theory about her health. The MSM, in fact, has been treating Don the Con with kid gloves by comparison to the grilling Clinton gets. You probably missed the post where I noted that I'll probably not even vote for her, but for the Liberation candidate Gary Johnson. It's amazing that Trump's bozo supporters somehow think they're going against the establishment by voting for a billionaire born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Along with big government, people like him have been the problem all along. He's not even a good businessman, with his personal bankruptcies and failures of his ventures and yet his sheep somehow think he'll do better with the US economy?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-09-19, 15:49:51
I can't wait to get this damned election behind us. It'll also be nice not to have to see this thread again.

FFS, @rjhowie is looking like a serious contender these days. (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sectalk.com%2Fboard%2Fpublic%2Fstyle_emoticons%2Fdefault%2Ftrollface.gif&hash=665db6eec9584d69e6bd4e70d368aa3a" rel="cached" data-hash="665db6eec9584d69e6bd4e70d368aa3a" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.sectalk.com/board/public/style_emoticons/default/trollface.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-19, 16:04:54
Fuck it. Let's change the constitution to make it happen. Robert Howie for President! I'll send him plane tickets to start the campaign here in Vegas :yes:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-09-20, 00:47:28
[glow=blue,2,300]Black voters are turning from Clinton to Trump in Latest Poll [/glow]



Source:  THE N.Y. POST (http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/)   
Quote
Donald Trump is gaining support among African-American voters — whose enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton is eroding, a tracking poll released Saturday revealed.

Trump saw a 16.5 percentage-point increase in backing from African-American voters in a Los Angeles Times/University of Southern California tracking poll, up from 3.1 percent on Sept. 10 to 19.6 percent through Friday.

Meanwhile, the same poll showed Clinton’s support among that group plummeting from 90.4 percent on Sept. 10 to 71.4 percent.

Clinton’s nearly 20-point crash began Sunday, said Dan Schnur of USC. Sunday was the day Clinton was recorded collapsing while entering a Secret Service van at a 9/11 event.

The survey, which spanned through Friday, included the days in which Trump reignited the divisive “birther” issue — which critics contend is a thinly veiled attempt to undermine the legitimacy of the country’s first black president.......continued (http://nypost.com/2016/09/18/black-voters-are-turning-from-clinton-to-trump-in-new-poll/)


Now, this spells more trouble for SHillary than almost all the other polling, because these "VOTERS" were solid for Obama in 2012, where their overall plurality in many states gave Obama his edge.

Yes, The Donald is making inroads where the demonrats can hardly afford defections  ..........  from their
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/exitstageleft.gif)  [glow=green,2,300]"taken for granted" [/glow] Afro-American base.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/exitstageright.gif)

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-20, 00:50:07
Oh dear. I wouldn't use that kind of language midnight at someone - even from Edinburgh.

Still think that 43 million poor is a shocking thing along with the million annually losing homes. Trying to lessen that against the total population is a tut-tut thing my boy. Doesn't matter which of the two puppet controlled parties run the country the tens of millions remain there as much as anything else.

If I wasn't such a royalist I would make a most different President for the ex-colonies. There would be big changes, wider democracy, honesty and women fainting. Mind you being a highly individual kind of man I would pay my own fare.  :whistle:  :cheers:  (Irn Bru)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-20, 04:52:26
Yes, The Donald is making inroads where the demonrats can hardly afford defections  ..........  from their
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/exitstageleft.gif)  "taken for granted" Afro-American base.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/exitstageright.gif)
The democrats and republicans both can take certain demographics for granted. Now is the time for the Libertarian and Green Parties to rise and clear out the corruption and pandering to the most small minded supporters in the primaries that produces candidates such as Trump and Clinton.

As far as the polls are concerned, you can actually get a good idea of the accuracy of them for 538 (http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/).  But let's see what happens to them after the debates. The election might even come down to how much discipline Trump shows then. Trump's erratic behavior is major deterrent to a whole lot of voters, meaning he's approaching a low ceiling already.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-20, 05:43:54
Now is the time for the Libertarian and Green Parties to rise and clear out the corruption and pandering to the most small minded supporters in the primaries that produces candidates such as Trump and Clinton.
:) Neither of those parties poll beyond 15%, and actually much less… They'll muddy the waters, is all.

Your last "big-minded" suggestion was to amend the constitution, to allow a certain "RJ Howie" to run… :) Of course, you didn't mean that: The most you meant was that he should be "installed"; not an unusual plea from one of your political persuasion! :)

The Greens (…used to be Reds, remember?) and the Libertarians (…rejected conservatism for libertinism) won't be a factor in this election, or any that you or I will see. They're marginal parties, like the "wide democracy" Howie wishes upon us; because he'd like us to be as schizophrenic as his lot!
(He bemoans our problems yet ignores his own -which are worse- because we're not going fast enough into the inevitable hell that socialism leads to… He'd like to see us fail the way his country has. One wonders why?
Well, there's that German word that I'm no longer allowed to use… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-20, 07:57:15
@midnight raccoon

An article you'll probably enjoy, Sang. :)
Wonder if you'll enjoy all the user comments too. ;)
However it's a fortune that you don't speak German, because the user comments referring to that article (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/europaparlamentschef-schulz-trump-ist-ein-problem-fuer-die-ganze-welt-a-1112411.html) are much more devastating.

'Trump Is a Problem for the Whole World' (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-parliament-president-trump-a-problem-for-the-whole-world-a-1112505.html#js-article-comments-box-pager)

Two thinks, it might be worth to know for people abroad.
- "Der Spiegel" which once was a left magazine, became step by step the mouthpiece of hawkish US neocons.
- The "SPD" (Social Democrat Party) suggests that it is a left oriented party. It was once but changed drastically course under Gerhard Schröder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der).
Since, hundreds and thousands of voters have turned their back to this pseudo social democratic party. As a result, the big tent party it was once (http://www.wahlrecht.de/ergebnisse/bundestag.htm), will have to struggle now for 20% of the votes.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-09-20, 08:06:58
I don't think an English speaker needs much of an active grasp of German to understand sentences like "Clinton oder Trump ist die Wahl zwischen Pest und Cholera." :P
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-09-20, 23:21:29
.....Now is the time for the Libertarian and Green Parties to rise......

Yeah.....Suuuuree.......Where's Allepo Johnson, & where's Columbus Stein.   
That's Real rising Hi-Class Commander-in-Chief material there! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lolfun.gif)  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cleanteeth09.gif)

Nope, I see it with the loss of BHO as a "someone to vote for" rallying point, the demonrat party has a hard time keeping it's base awake past 9PM, much less motivated to vote for their outstanding, but sickly, candidate, SHillary "I have more scandals in my closet than Carter's got little liver pills" Clinton.

Even the sexy allure of her hottie cigar thrusting, syphilis ravaged hubby can't draw a yawn from the crowd! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/big%20laugh%20007.gif)

All the while Trump's base of support stays steadily increasing, & never retreating.

Regardless what the MSM & everyone on the left says about Trump's so called bigoted, racist, red-necked, ignorant, 'Basket of Deplorables' base, they are quite loyal, their votes count just as much as Coony's or mine, & they will be storming the polls come November. This is like an election we've never seen before, whereas the political tried & true 'normalcy' really doesn't have as much punch, if any, with that bunch.

SHillary isn't going to siphon off Trump voters except in her wildest wet dreams. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lol00100.gif)

BTW......Trump's voters seem to enjoy the tag SHillary gave them........ 'Basket of Deplorables' .........they wear it like a badge of honor! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/yes02ix3.gif)


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-21, 02:12:04
I know Oakdale only likes playing the fool amd use his ignorance of the real world outside but Socialist here? The Labour party with it's new leader is going nowhere and will be out of office for years. Living outside of the country I assume there is some way that other parties outside of the Democrats and Republicans cannot get played much and it is always just the big 2 and I am glad we are not like that at all. The frustration of many in America is there to witness including many who are concerned about their country.  I am not suggesting a whole squad of people in the tv dates but there needs to be more than just the 2 corporate controlled lot for goodness sake. It would be far more progressive if one or two more parties even if including the two others mentioned were on the "show." It would give many frustrated Americans something far better than they are getting stuck with.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-09-21, 02:50:45
RJ doesn't need a Constitutional Amendment......he's already running (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/biglaugh023.gif)


(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.com%2Fimg922%2F3724%2FPwVZsk.gif&hash=6e83724108fa2291de035747824fd254" rel="cached" data-hash="6e83724108fa2291de035747824fd254" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3724/PwVZsk.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-21, 04:25:36
I assume there is some way that other parties outside of the Democrats and Republicans cannot get played much and it is always just the big 2 and I am glad we are not like that at all
And when, pray tell, was the last time GB had a PM that was neither Conservative or Labour? ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-21, 21:58:57
Nothing worse than a Yank that knows little of the outside world trying to be something. The last government which only went recently was a coalition between Conservatives and Liberal Democrats. No matter who is in power all House of Commons Committees have members from a whole range of parties. It also includes a chairman who is not o the governing prty as part of the system. In addition the regional parties outside of the 3 main ones are ALSO on those parliamentary Committees. Scottish nationalists, Welsh nationalists, the two Ulster Unionist parties. None of this happens in your messed up corporate controller just 2 so what we practice IS a far wider democracy than the 2 giants who run your mess.

You are stuck with what you have morphed into and there are an awful lot of Americans who are fed up with what they have and control freakery of the big 2. So please do stop trying to sneak away from the subject which includes the lack of a more open system would be better over there. It is also why that Senator Sanders created a new sensation and indicates the dissatisfaction at things.  The Democrats and Republican dictatorship has created the lack of wider ways of doing things and is a very fundamental problem.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-22, 15:21:15
And when, pray tell, was the last time GB had a PM that was neither Conservative or Labour?
I'll answer for him, that would have been a mere 100 years ago (http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/pm.htm), when Howie was only 30 years old.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-09-24, 11:09:37
The Democrats and Republican dictatorship has created the lack of wider ways of doing things and is a very fundamental problem.
Very true.

Bi-partisanship it's a false democracy aimed to perpetuate a dictatorship - chose whatever you want but only between black or white.
Colors are subversive to the establishment.

The same happens in my Country between the Social Democrat and the Socialist party, everything else being accused of lacking "credibility".
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-24, 12:29:42
Well midnight you are as bad as Oakdale. I have already proved twice that our system is more democratic than yours by a damn mile. Apart from the last government being of 2 parties (note more than one) I emphasised that all parliament committees are spread over all parties in their composition. On top of that it is also routine for a chairman to be from the official opposition to the government broadening even more so. Anyway none of that means sod all to you lot because you are stuck with 2 corporate parties and your parliament is not as wide as ours either.

Trump's popularity is because more and more ex-colonists are getting fed up with the routine controlled system and the party hype merchants. Amongst not sures or don't knows Trump is not doing very well in scores BUT neither is Clinton on trust and much else. You poor sods will be stuck with the usual and going nowhere except increasing the debts, military stuff for the corporate companies whilst so many at home are as they are. I feel sorry for you being stuck with Clinton and Trump.  :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-24, 17:30:38
I was merely stating a fact, Howie. The last PM that wasn't Labour nor Conservative was in 1916 with Liberal PM David Lloyd George. Despite token representation by smaller parties, your two main parties seem to have it sewn up pretty tight. 559 of your MPs are either Labour or Conservative, 54 (the majority of the remainder) are SNP.

I looked up your  "coalition" government (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Cameron_ministry)
Quote
David Cameron formed the First Cameron ministry after being invited by Queen Elizabeth II to begin a new government following the resignation of the previous Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Gordon Brown, on 11 May 2010. It was a coalition government, composed of members of both the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats.

The government's Cabinet was made up of sixteen Conservatives and five Liberal Democrats with eight other Conservatives and one other Liberal Democrat attending cabinet but not members
Okay, so now we know what coalition government is and it doesn't seem to mean a whole lot. The party with PM gives another party seats on the Cabinet. Nice way for Cameron to lock out the second and third largest parties in the UK, btw. You know, the ones just about everybody voted for outside Cameron's own party. "Wide democracy" by ass.

It seems the US even has defacto "coalition" by those standards. Republican Robert Gates was Obama's Secretary of Defense until 2011, followed by Chuck Hagel for same position since 2013. Republican Ray LaHood was Secretary of Transportation since 2009. There are other Republicans in Obama's government (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_political_appointments_across_party_lines) as well (scroll to the bottom of the list) 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-25, 02:32:46
Utter rubbish from midnight of course. The government coalition between Conservative and liberal Democrats was not a mess thing. It meant the Tori(Conservatives) had to scale back some things to accommodate the LibDems and sometimes vice-versa. That IS democracy. There have also been parliaments where the government has been outvoted by a combination of other parties (another education for dumb Yanks)he commons Committees in hard practice do have influence as it happens on the parliament and finalising situations and decisions. All of this is far more widely democratic that the rubbish over in America. You have 2 parties  run by corporates on both sides> many over in America are getting frustrated because the Democrats and Republicans do stitch up things and any others suitably stopped from getting anywhere. To somehow ignore the wider attitude here to the control freakery in the US is so stupid to be blunt.

You try to avoid the hard truth of the political system in the USA and that people are using their grey cells getting fed up with things. That is why Sanders actually did so well and why Trump is as well. We can question him of course but the fact that he is not a regular Beltway politician has attracted a great chunk of the population. On the Clinton corner the proportion of don't knows yet but who are suspicious of her is very high . Both are the result of a limited democracy  and trying to get a dig at a wider system because of frustration is not very constructive. With what you poor ex-colonists are tuck with just the 2 what  difference it would be if your 2 Houses and a couple or more of other parties in them. Waken up.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-25, 04:51:02
If it's democracy, where's Labour and SNP in this? Let a Las Vegan tell you this some kind of sweetheart deal between a major party and a smaller one. If you don't understand this, you're naive about your country and overly cynical of our's. I'm fed up with Democrats and Republicans as much as anyone, but open your eyes about this grand "coalition" of yours and while you're doing that notice defacto ones happen in the US routinely.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-09-25, 09:06:21
Bi-partisanship it's a false democracy aimed to perpetuate a dictatorship - chose whatever you want but only between black or white.
Colors are subversive to the establishment.

The same happens in my Country between the Social Democrat and the Socialist party, everything else being accused of lacking "credibility".
It might be of interest to mention that the names of your parties are misleading.
Portugal's Socialist Party (Partido Socialista/PS) resembles the German SPD or the British Labour Party.
The so called Social Democratic Party (Partido Social Democrata/PSD) is a center-right party resembling the German CDU or the UK Conservatives.

At some point I have to agree with Belfrager that there are no more Social Democratic Parties, at least no Social Democratic Parties as they used to be programmatically. During the last decades there was an intense drift from the centre to the right.
As an example, "The Left" (Die Linke - Germany) considered today a left-wing party, stands where the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) stood 20 years ago. The Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) is today much closer to the right-wing than the CDU was 20 years ago.

I'm afraid that for some Americans it isn't easy to evaluate Europe's political spectrum since in the USA even Obama and Hillary are labeled sometimes as communists.  ;)
So far, Wall Street and hawkish neocons (no matter if Reps or Dems) alltogether seem to love 'communists'.  :lol:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-09-25, 10:32:17
I'm afraid that for some Americans it isn't easy to evaluate Europe's political spectrum since in the USA even Obama and Hillary are labeled sometimes as communists.  ;)
American intelligentsia knows perfectly well the European political spectrum, after all how many European political parties have they already financed? not a few I can guarantee you.

There you have something that will drive mad our American friends, to know that their "tax money" has been paying for "our" political parties. :)
And yet that was the right thing to do to preserve America's influence over Europe. It's the hidden war.

I don't see the American candidates to explain too much of these things to their supporters. In fact, the Presidential campaign has such a low intellectual level that it turns into a frightening thing the world assists astonished to.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-09-25, 16:09:04
I can only assume I'm wrong because I don't see what any of you are on about.

The only difference to me is how many labels does it take to make you feel comfortable. A short game mindset. I'd like to see a third party only to snatch up votes. It's strength is as irrelevant as the words that come out of politicians' mouths. When the dust settles we are left with two opinions to vote on. Or really one plan and one "aw hell no". A third party will help that at least be two plans to vote on. Even for a long game player change moves too slow when disaster comes so quick.

What we need with what's available is a one term Hillary. To do that we'll have to give her enough rope to hang herself ( a favorable congress at least 2yrs) We'll get regulations we need and her going too far will hopefully get the GOP to put up a serious candidate that can win. We then lose some of that regulation but buy a decade or so of prosperity. Depending on how congress sits.  

Rotate the power between parties. How many you do that between isn't that important.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-25, 16:15:31
We'll get regulations we need and her going too far will hopeful get the GOP to put up a serious candidate that can win.
You're forgetting who you're talking about. The GOP will all turn into Trump :p Trump himself was the inevitable outcome of years of Palin, Bachmann, the Tea Party and assorted other clowns.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-09-25, 16:28:27
You're forgetting who you're talking about. The GOP will all turn into Trump :p Trump himself was the inevitable outcome of years of Palin, Bachmann, the Tea Party and assorted other clowns.
You mean the result of being in power too long. Party front-runners aren't there because they have good ideas.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-09-25, 18:07:57
There you have something that will drive mad our American friends, to know that their "tax money" has been paying for "our" political parties. :)
And yet that was the right thing to do to preserve America's influence over Europe. It's the hidden war.
What "drives me mad" is not that. It's the fact that with the farce we call NATO (and fund for the most part, with the exception of a few countries paying in their 2%) we waste money that could have been spent setting up a national health service for all in this country, not just the poor and old.

Instead, we opt to fund that jackass organization. I am all for you all setting up a "European Defence Force". The sooner the better, in my opinion.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-09-25, 20:08:22
Instead, we opt to fund that jackass organization. I am all for you all setting up a "European Defence Force". The sooner the better, in my opinion.
Forget it, it's impossible.

Edit: I read that Trump invited some ex Bill Clinton's lover woman to the first row at the debate with Hillary.
That's low, that's really low.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-09-26, 02:44:28
I read that Trump invited some ex Bill Clinton's lover woman to the first row at the debate with Hillary.
That's low, that's really low.

Not Really.

It's simply a retaliation to a first shot by Clinton ............ & not low at all.

In American Politics, all's fair game, & SHillary made it wide open by inviting a despised adversary of Trumps, & by placing him front row center to harass Trump, & by further trash talking Trump's alleged indiscretions with women, as if the Clinton's are pure as the white driven snow.  :lol:

SHillary pounds her chest, & exclaims she is out there running as the heroine for all the women of America, but she conveniently omits her vile treatment of the American women who either disagree with her, or attack her husband by simply making sexual misconduct claims against him, which BTW Clinton....affectionately known as 'Slick Willy'.....was well known for!

These claims btw were widely reported on, & thoroughly investigated.

Slick Willy's indiscretions are well documented & legendary, as are Hillary's vicious & relentless attacks on the women who Bill had trysts with ......... which actually enabled his ongoing affairs, as well as his both their political aspirations.

Source:  The N.Y. Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/21/us/politics/90s-scandals-threaten-to-erode-hillary-clintons-strength-with-women.html?_r=0) 
Quote
........the resurfacing of the scandals of the 1990s has brought about a rethinking among some feminists about how prominent women stood by Mr. Clinton and disparaged his accusers after the “bimbo eruptions,” as a close aide to the Clintons, Betsey Wright, famously called the claims of affairs and sexual assault against Mr. Clinton in his 1992 campaign.

Even some Democrats who participated in the effort to discredit the women acknowledge privately that today, when Mrs. Clinton and other women have pleaded with the authorities on college campuses and in workplaces to take any allegation of sexual assault and sexual harassment seriously, such a campaign to attack the women’s character would be unacceptable.

Back then, Mr. Clinton’s aides, having watched Gary Hart’s presidential hopes unravel over his relationship with Donna Rice in the 1988 Democratic primary race, were determined to quash any accusations against Mr. Clinton early and aggressively, former campaign aides said. Mrs. Clinton had supported the effort to push back against the women’s stories.

Much of her involvement played out behind the scenes and was driven in part by her sense that right-wing forces were using the women and salacious stories to damage her husband’s political ambitions.

Her reflex was to protect him and his future, and early on, she turned to a longtime Clinton loyalist, Ms. Wright, to defend him against the allegations, according to multiple accounts at the time, documented in books and oral histories.

“We have to destroy her story,” Mrs. Clinton said in 1991 of Connie Hamzy, one of the first women to come forward during her husband’s first presidential campaign, according to George Stephanopoulos, a former Clinton administration aide who described the events in his memoir, “All Too Human.” (Three people signed sworn affidavits saying Ms. Hamzy’s story was false.)

When Gennifer Flowers later surfaced, saying that she had had a long affair with Mr. Clinton,
Mrs. Clinton undertook an “aggressive, explicit direction of the campaign to discredit” Ms. Flowers, according to an exhaustive biography of Mrs. Clinton, “A Woman in Charge,” by Carl Bernstein. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/05/books/review/05kaku.html)


Mrs. Clinton referred to Monica Lewinsky, the White House intern who had an affair with the 42nd president, as a “narcissistic loony toon,” according to one of her closest confidantes, Diane D. Blair, whose diaries were released to the University of Arkansas after her death in 2000.

Ms. Lewinsky later called the comment an example of Mrs. Clinton’s impulse to “blame the woman.”..........

Over the years, the Clinton effort to cast doubt on the women included using words like “floozy,” “bimbo” and “stalker,” and raising questions about their motives. James Carville, a longtime strategist for Mr. Clinton, was especially cutting in attacking Ms. Flowers. “If you drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you’ll find,” Mr. Carville said of Ms. Flowers. (Mr. Carville has maintained that earlier reports indicating that he had made the remark about Paula Jones, another Clinton accuser, were incorrect.)

Now that the stories are resurfacing, they could hamper Mrs. Clinton’s attempts to connect with younger women, who are learning the details of the Clintons’ history for the first time. Several news organizations have published guides to the Clinton scandals to explain the allegations to a new generation of readers.

Alexis Isabel Moncada, the 17-year-old founder of Feminist Culture, a popular blog, was not old enough to remember the 1990s, but lately she and her thousands of young female readers have heard a lot about the scandals.

“I heard he sexually harassed people and she worked to cover it up,” Ms. Moncada said of Mr. and Mrs. Clinton. “A lot of girls in my age group are huge feminists, and we don’t react well to that.”............continued (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/21/us/politics/90s-scandals-threaten-to-erode-hillary-clintons-strength-with-women.html?_r=0)

If Donald Trump invites Gennifer Flowers as one of his 400 guests to the debate, & places her front & center to Clinton, it's a stark reminder to Clinton that it takes two to tango, & this is just one of her chickens coming home to roost......they'll be more to come....count on that...........all's fair in politics.

If she wouldn't have verbally assaulted, demeaned, & attacked Flowers the way she did, Flowers probably would have faded out of memory years ago .....  as a distant memory, but Clinton famously bashed Flowers mercilessly, as she did to all the others who spoke up about Bill, bashed them both verbally & financially.....& in Flowers' case also had her followed * harrased by agents day & night, & now SHillary has the gall to run as the 'heroine of all woman kind'?!!

What a lying hypocrite!

Gennifer Flowers will be a stark reminder to all that Clinton is willing to pompously say one thing, but in reality, she hypocritically does another.........& that's well documented. ;)

(https://i.imgsafe.org/8849ef2b5d.jpg)
(https://i.imgsafe.org/884a8f408f.jpg)


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-09-26, 13:42:28
In spite of all of the above, Americans miss out on some fun: http://www.quirksmode.org/politics/blog/archives/2016/09/dutch_pirates_d.html
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-09-26, 14:40:42
Oh, there is an American Pirate Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Pirate_Party) as well, but just as the Libertarian, the Green, and all those other parties, they are kind of pointless. First Past the Post and all that. Though, if I was American and wanted to vote, but not to vote for one of the two that would get elected, I might go for the Pirates. They are also members of Pirate Parties International (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Parties_International).

The European Pirates are in different states. The Norwegian leadership decided they wanted to reinvent democracy, and are unlikely to surface for air in the next few years. The original, Swedish Party, lost the last election, but are more experienced and mature than most. The German Pirate MEP, Julia Reda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Reda), I think does an excellent and commendable job. 

The big one is Iceland, with an election a month hence, and with the Pirate Party still the largest Icelandic party in polls, neck and neck with the Independence Party. Whether they will actually become the largest remains to be seen, and a Pirate Prime Minister is unlikely, but they have a pretty good chance of getting in government or get their policies through. That includes giving Icelandic citizenship to Edward Snowden.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-27, 02:59:29
Well, the first of three presidential debates is over… That's an hour and a half of my life I'll never get back! :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-27, 03:06:48
I just got through watching most of the first debate. As expected, Trump was defensive and agitated - the opposite of presidential. He was short on specifics and spoke in bumpersticker slogans.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-27, 04:22:09
And Hillary was Hillary… Towards the end she even accused Trump of saying that women should be paid the same as men, if they do as much work! (Democratic code "equal pay for equal work" long ago dropped the "for equal work" clause… :) Entitlement is the commodity they sell, for votes.)

There are only two things I can think of that Hillary didn't screw up: Her 1000% profit on her first cattle futures deal. And her speaking engagement deals with Wall Street banks.
Everything else seems either shady or outright failure… (See the pattern, Sang? :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-09-27, 05:57:59
:love: And DnD is DnD

Although, it's feelings being sold. And people can't get enough of them.  :worried:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-27, 06:02:10
The implication is that women don't work as hard. In my experience, it depends on the person.
And her speaking engagement deals with Wall Street banks.
Okay, Howie......

Even Republican leaning Fortune agrees with me (http://fortune.com/2016/09/26/presidential-debate-who-won/)

Quote
  In the first and potentially most consequential presidential debate of 2016, the Democratic nominee presented as composed and commanding, ticking through her policy prescriptions while landing a series of devastating blows on Donald Trump’s record and readiness. A fidgety Trump meanwhile tried repeatedly to ruffle her with interruptions while riffing his way through his own answers, but struggled on both counts.

On many occasions, Trump was factually challenged as usual.

Hillary might not be great, but with Republican contender we need to ask ourselves how we sank so low. Nothing about the man says he should be president. Policy and not even having the facts about his his own history straight aside (usual failed Trickle Down Voodonomics), even his temperament is off.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-27, 06:43:01
The jackass even tried to double down on the claim that Hillary started the birther conspiracy. Maybe some Hillary supporters back then did make that claim about Obama, but who was one of the main ones keeping that idiocy going? :confused: Oh, I remember now! Hint, he look like a mango with a dead read on it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-09-27, 08:19:21
The jackass even tried to double down on the claim that Hillary started the birther conspiracy.
… Yeah, I know: Like the "Willie" Horton story: Dems start them, and then back away when Republicans follow up.
I grant that Trump is inarticulate, and "fact" challenged in a debate setting.  But it was Hillary Clinton operatives who began the "birther" meme.
"All's fair, in Democrat party politics!"
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-27, 09:57:13
Dems start them, and then back away when Republicans follow up.
In this case, the few Dems that ever believed it back away when it was found to be bullshit. Maybe Donald was conflating Hillary with some of her supporters. Hillary herself rejected the use of this stupidity in her campaign against Obama. It's very possible this shows she's smarter than Donald. Perhaps (unlike him) she saw this would turn around and bite her in the ass as it is for him and his only excuse is incorrectly saying she started it.

Inarticulate is one thing, visibly agitated is another. If he gets agitated in the debates; how his he going to be able to handle the fiendishly clever President Putin or  Xi Jinping. I suspect the answer is that he won't. Putin will play him (and by extension America) for the fool he is. I don't know much about Xi Jinping, but suspect the same outcome. The Chinese are reaching for superpower status (perhaps already have it?), are nobody's fool; and aren't going to cave to the demands Donald claims he'll put on them - especially if he can't keep his cool. This was not only a presidential debate; it was also a test to see how well he'll handle himself on the world stage. He did okay for the first thirty minutes and then fell apart. So maybe he gets a D-. Funny how he brought up possible issues with Hillary's stamina when he couldn't keep his mental endurance for an hour and half. Maybe his handlers should give him Valium for the next two debates since he'll probably do better napping than talking.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-09-27, 22:08:01
For what it counts the entire civilized world considered that Clinton was less bad than Trump.
To me, it's indifferent.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-28, 01:00:07
Didn't watch the boring process although the news channels here also boringly gave excerpts. Ultimately I think that Belfrager has a very concise and very practical point in making not much of a difference who wins as it is a farce.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-09-28, 01:51:29
If he gets agitated in the debates; how his he going to be able to handle the fiendishly clever President Putin or  Xi Jinping. I suspect the answer is that he won't. Putin will play him (and by extension America) for the fool he is. I don't know much about Xi Jinping, but suspect the same outcome.
Presidents have their scripted role and less predictable characters have their handlers. W definitely had.

The thing is, Trump used to be a businessman and those guys have to have some negotiating ability. I believe he has some of that. It's just that business negotiations have a totally different aim and character than political and diplomatic meetings. Prez Trump would be kept on short leash by his team lest the country would fall over too soon.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-28, 14:01:21
One problem issue is the tension between America and Russia which is the worst for a while. Burt part of that issue is that the US does not like anywhere that challenges their self opinionated world dominance. Trump may well be able to get on with Russia and I see nothing principally wrong with that at all. Clinton on the other hand is full of hawkishness to the point of stupidity.  On a general situation apart from those over in the messed ex-colonies having concerns about a non-politician being a candidate part of that is due to an increasing fed up attitude with the system as it now is. Or is it being said that tens of millions in America are brainless? they are fed up is more to the point! On the Clinton side there are a lot of people who do not trust her at all and grudgingly going to vote for her. Both in polls see  people who are not happy about either of them. atall and says much too doesn't it??

The whole thing is geared up to both the big political conglomerates and the democrats are just as up to their ear in the corporate corner as the Republicans. No-one else can get involved in the tv debate if less than 15%. Pathetic control at it's worse. Now i am not suggesting that every other party can be on stage but this is ridiculous control mind-set stuff.  Clinton will probably win but it will not make a damn difference to the mass numbers of people at the bottom of things and will increase world tensions the way she goes on.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-29, 14:49:23
Now Trump has a new conspiracy theory. He thinks Google is plotting against him (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/politics/donald-trump-google-conspiracy-election-2016/) and somehow thinks it suppresses bad news about Clinton, despite the fact negative articles about her shows up regularly....) He not only has no grasp of policy whatsoever, but is also a paranoid nutcase. How anyone can support him remains a mystery. Can stomach Hillary? Vote Johnson, instead of this man prone to delusional fantasies and the most outrageous conspiracy theories. In Oakdale's case, it won't matter because Clinton will carry California regardless.

Did anyone hear about the possibility Trump will use Bill Clinton's affairs against Hillary, despite that he's thrice married and admitted to adultery. Him and his campaign are truly cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-29, 16:50:20
 I wonder if loonie still thinks Cruz's father was involved in JFK's assassination? :confused: :lol: What an insane moron :lol:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-30, 00:24:39
Okay we all know that trump is very, very rich but how does one explain the deep involvement by the corporate money corner with Clinton?  It is the impression being given that the 2 aimers for the White House are the two most controversial for many a year??
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-30, 03:19:09
Because both candidates are this bad, Howie. I think you would gave needed to watch the debate to understand just how bad Trump did, though. This a man barely in control of his own emotions, much less has the stability to lead the country. He now has one excuse after another. I already mentioned that he blamed his mic (has if that has anything to with why his visibly agitated. Now the debate was "rigged" ; his angry at his own supporters for conceding the debate.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-09-30, 04:59:41
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lol015.gif)

It all came down to expectations......It's a known fact, just ask CNN, that Trump hardly prepared for the, just showed up actually, & was only expected to hop over a bar six inches off the ground........being he never had much debating experience except for the primaries.....


~~  whereas  ~~


SHillary, because of her countless hours of debate preparation, just ask CNN, her years of litigation experience as a lawyer for prestigious law firms, her years of experience as a Pontificating Senator on the floor of the U.S. Senate, her years of experience as the Secretary of State traveling country to country.....always under intense sniper fire......, those famous countless hours of experience making multi-millions on the Wall Street talk circuit, & never forget her ongoing vast experience in dodging, bobbing, & weaving with the FBI defending herself, against all odds, bobbing, & weaving with the FBI & Congress, defending herself from their allegations regarding her questionable use of a private email server......that experience jousting with some formidable orators with her political life virtually at stake.....wow....that experience was & will be priceless!

Actually, in the end, Shillary needed to do far better than Moses did parting the Red Sea just to treed with her head above water, much less win a debate!(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cleanteeth09.gif)



Yep, in the end it was all about expectations.......that was, & will always be, the bottom line.  ;)

Poor SHillary, so, so close to that 'Glass Ceiling', yet so, so far away! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/biglaugh023.gif)

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-09-30, 14:35:14
SHillary, because of her countless hours of debate preparation,
Exactly. When you're going to have to deal with Congress, President Putin, etc you need to come prepared. Are you trying to spin Trump showing up unprepared like a jackass as a positive? To put it another way, when interviewing candidates for a job, do you hire the one that not only has the experience but has all her ducks in a row for the interview or the jackass that comes unprepared and doesn't seem to have a clue and is visibly agitated throughout the interview and lies multiple time throughout the interview. I would think the answer would be obvious.


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-09-30, 17:37:42
Unfortunately I saw the miserable debate live. Hillary deliberately poked Trump and Trump reacted like a total jerk. This, along with the fact that he lies louder, may cost dearly for Hillary. Namely, Americans seem to prefer Trump's behaviour as "human" or maybe even "tough" so that America can be great again. Funny how these things work over the pond.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.dailykos.com%2Fimages%2F305664%2Flarge%2F14542318_10154686505634255_1925015665477917387_o.jpg&hash=c72dc1509a88bd8c369818811fdf07b6" rel="cached" data-hash="c72dc1509a88bd8c369818811fdf07b6" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://images.dailykos.com/images/305664/large/14542318_10154686505634255_1925015665477917387_o.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-09-30, 23:13:11
At his point I think Trump is being counted more serious than he is. I'd say this is far from a wash. That was the debate capt douche needed to take serious and bring together some much needed back pedaling.

I didn't watch it. I tapped out on news coverage of the monkey show long ago.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-01, 00:01:23
But -not to worry!- the Dems continue to operate as usual: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fec-dems-lay-groundwork-to-ban-fox-wsj-political-coverage/article/2603177#!
The reasoning is Orwellian, also par for the course… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-01, 01:10:02
Have you also noticed the possible ban on the NY Times? Also this a Democrat, Ellen Weintraub. Not "the dems' I know the article accuses Democrats of having a three year mission to ban conservative media, but doesn't explain other attempts or why liberal media would also be banned under the single Democrat's proposal. :)  "The Examiner" didn't do much examining and is peddling another paranoid Republican conspiracy theory. The proposal itself is probably unworkable considering how much of media (and other companies) have a degree of foreign ownership, but to say that it singles out conservative outlets for Orwellian purposes seems ridiculous.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-01, 02:01:58
I must say midnight that to be honest neither candidate is outstanding and your own polls do show a very concerned number of people living over there who are of that mind in actuality. To be frank i can understand people being fed up with routine politicians because of their actions and tired of the rather condensed political choice. Perhaps a more experienced man for the Republicans who is better than Trump would have been something. At the same time Clinton does not have such a squeaky clean history. So in a sense someone not in the usual routine and failing political system would be a positive change and I fully know how you are not happy with the one that is in the race but you have I am afraid totally swerved the issue of why such a large number of your fellow countrymen are right behind Trump? After all it is not a handful is it byt millions so what does that say about things, eh?At the same time Clinton has a lot of people who cannot make their mind up on her at the same time.

There is a very deep dis-satisfaction with things and sadly with the 2 you have got will make no difference to legions of your own people nor the future. Sanders was a surprise and goes on to show that an awful lot of folk even if still a minority went to him. What things are showing is a deep problem in your political machinery and the Democrats are also very deep in the corporate corner too.  Clinton is expected to win due to her "experience" (ho yeah) and the only positive is being the first woman but I do not envy the near future for the USA nor it's global empire. Pity.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-10-01, 03:01:19
I've said it before... It's too bad they outlawed dueling. I could come to respect either candidate more after them having shot their opponent dead.  :whistle:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-01, 06:40:12
Then I would await a phone call or email.  :-[
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-02, 02:42:48
At the same time Clinton has a lot of people who cannot make their mind up on her at the same time.
The debate is helping a lot of people make their mind against him, as it showed them just what they were supporting. You probably watched some news reports on the telly and maybe read a few articles, right? You would have to have watched it to understand just how bad he did - constantly interrupting, agitated and unable keep his composure. "A lot of people" are in fact making up their minds as go into the home stretch of  election.

You ask why people support him? Well, 23 percent of Americans identify themselves as Republicans and would vote for anyone they offered no matter how bad. The remainder like what he has to say about getting tough on China (as ill-advised a trade war with them would be) and renegotiating NAFTA or dropping out of it entirely because they think this would bring manufacturing jobs back to the "Rust Belt." The automakers would build cars in Mexico regardless with or without NAFTA because of how low the wages are there. You can't tax Mexican assembled cars enough to make up the difference.

Another part of the answer is frustration and anger at the political system you mentioned. Yes, people do feel that way. I'm one of them. But let me ask you this, are folks acting out of anger using their best judgement?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-02, 04:03:04
I have to say midnight that the Trumpites are not acting very right at all to be directly honest (even if they are unhappy with the system) but they will get more than 23% of the vote I reckon. That is a challenge in itself and a non-traditional candidate would have been a possibility but not him. What one has to ask is how does someone like him get the support he is getting due to that perhaps frustration?

Many are not too sure about Clinton and that has to be noted in polls and she is drifting along as the lesser of two evils because that is what people are getting dumped with and the routine is failing so many people. On a reminder it is also being said isn't it that this is the most unsettling election for some time.  :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2016-10-02, 15:45:05
I've said it before... It's too bad they outlawed dueling. I could come to respect either candidate more after them having shot their opponent dead.  :whistle:
IIRC some states ( Kentucky for example ) have laws that disqualify anyone who ever participated in a duel from holding any kind of elected public office.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-02, 16:05:46
What one has to ask is how does someone like him get the support he is getting due to that perhaps frustration?
Of course it is. He's looking at 40 - 45 percent of the votes.

As unsettling as this election might be, America will saved from Trump's destruction should Hillary win. The guy is mentally unstable. Is it a sane man that obsesses about the former Ms. Universe and proceeds to tweet nasty (and untrue) things about her in the middle of the night? I don't think I have to tell you.

You mentioned before that America and Russia's relationship might improve if Trump wins. I'm not so sure. Putin is bound of offend him at some point (maybe he notes correctly America's economic growth one year is down or something?) I wouldn't put it past Trump to tweet some counterfactual idiocy about Putin or Russia in general at 3 am, too. Hillary and Putin have a lot of wounds to heal together, but long-term I trust her more than Trump because of the latter's temperament.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-03, 03:12:13
It is just a very depressing matter that as I said this election is one of the worst for years. That someone like Donald Trump is one of two possibilities is both embarrassing and very, very, sad. It does on a passing note really indicate the hard truth that a political revolution is overdue.  :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-03, 07:42:15
It does on a passing note really indicate the hard truth that a political revolution is overdue.
So: Scotland should finally declare their allegiance  to the former Soviet Union? :) (But Putin's Russia is good enough…) How would you feel, if the Catholics took back their political and economic power, by force?
Of course, you mean by "revolution" something else… Eh?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-10-03, 10:56:41
Of course, you mean by "revolution" something else... Eh?
Just a big or sudden change will do. Violence is merely likely. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-10-03, 12:26:02
What do Trump, Clinton, and the-backup-of-Johnson (Johnson claiming another brain fart, presumably thinking of the Fox) have in common? Angela Merkel as their favourite world leader.

Hillary Clinton’s favorite world leader is Angela Merkel (http://qz.com/798850/one-thing-that-donald-trump-and-hillary-clinton-can-agree-on-angela-merkel-is-their-favorite-world-leader/)

(https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/rtr2l7ts-e1475490900170.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-10-03, 12:28:28
IIRC some states ( Kentucky for example ) have laws that disqualify anyone who ever participated in a duel from holding any kind of elected public office.
Hm, two birds one stone.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-03, 18:21:43
Try to be sober when you think about replying oakdale. You avoid the obvious that a great many over in your country are not very happy with either candidate and the system needs an overhaul.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-03, 22:30:37
a great many over in your country are not very happy with either candidate
That's you telly-focused myopia again: You think of elections as akin to Nielsen Ratings…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-04, 03:00:16
Now folks how is that Oakdale entry fit into stupid stuff, eh?? Whether someone reads the papers, listens to radio or watches television that is where news comes from you dopey man. It is on the common sense things that help people to decide and vote.

You poor sods are stuck with 2 disappointments and intelligent ex-colonists know this hence they have to fall back on the lesser of two evils syndrome. Anyway folk this is just a would-be distraction from a hermit and the rest of us live in the real world! Mind you Oakdale is a passing side show from the unfortunate choices millions of Americans are stuck with.  :worried:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-04, 08:16:32
Whether someone reads the papers, listens to radio or watches television that is where news comes from you dopey man.
I prefer not to be a "dopey man"… You, however, have no choice. But Pravda is your preference.

You still seem to think that government's job is to give people what they can't get, themselves… To be everybody's daddy. (But that's the British version of "daddy" — provide for you, until you die.)

A free people would reject this; but you've never wanted to be free — indeed, you've always been a slave. Of course, you can stand up on your soap-box at the quire and "orate" and, hence, think you have a democracy.
Your government is much the same as what you call ours…

We, here in the U.S., have a constitutional government that we're struggling to preserve! Do you wish us ill, in this?

Say what you mean, RJ!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-04, 16:50:46
Absolute piffle, piffle as usual. We ARE far wider in the democratic dimension than you will ever be. Wider representation and not brained like you poor lot. Indeed i have repeated the difference twice as it doesn't register with some of your brained people while others acknowledge that you poor lot are being let down. The media is so effectively controlled by the corporate mindset and propaganda such as yours is widely disproved by the amount of people in the country who are not happy with either Clinton or Trump. Other parties are effectively kept out of what you guffly proclaim as an ideal democracy when it isn't. Unfortunately there are too many emotionals across the pond who get worked up by a flag, nationalism banged in to you from a young age and ne of it helps a big chunk of the population.

You have nothing to contribute to this thread in any practical way but ignore the hard truth. Only Democrats and Republicans are allowed and anyone else can get stuffed. Democracy?  :faint:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-04, 22:40:14
I will be delighted with Trump's win.
The way the world can see what America (and half of the Americans) is really about.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-06, 06:37:21
…funny: No one wants to talk about the VP debates… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-06, 10:22:55
Don't think we missed much......
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-06, 21:08:43
…funny: No one wants to talk about the VP debates… :)
This makes you extra special. Go ahead. Talk.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-06, 22:56:43
If I had my druthers, Trump and Clinton would drop out… Then I could, gladly, vote for Mike Pence! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-07, 06:13:12
But unfortunately you have freedom, constitution and rule of law, right?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-07, 07:12:28
Other systems work better? Where… (I sometimes think you pine for Soviet domination, still.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-07, 07:30:05
All systems work so-so. The funny thing with Americans is that since they call their own system freedom, constitution, and rule of law, they think they are unique in the world having freedom, constitution, and rule of law. Everyone else apparently must have freedom imposed on them by interventions and invasions. You know, like Iraq is currently enduring freedom.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-10-07, 11:12:13
Everyone else apparently must have freedom imposed on them by interventions and invasions.
Except this narrative repeated as a mantra is not true. It only serves as a rotten pretext.
Interventions and invasions are ultimative steps to enforce US interests worldwide.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-07, 14:28:22
they think they are unique in the world having freedom, constitution, and rule of law.
What makes you think that? A few jackass Republicans that make all Americans look bad, I take it?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-07, 15:03:10
they think they are unique in the world having freedom, constitution, and rule of law.
What makes you think that? A few jackass Republicans that make all Americans look bad, I take it?
Certain presidents of the country over the last century. Irrespective of parties. I'll take your word for it that there are also lower-ranking jackasses in the Republican Party.

Edit: Oh, right, SF and Oakdale here are indeed lucid examples in bashing all the rest of the world.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-07, 17:20:12
Edit: Oh, right, SF and Oakdale here are indeed lucid examples in bashing all the rest of the world.
Can't argue with that. However, the Democratic Party finds itself bashed for not drinking the American Exceptionalism Kool-Aid by the Republicans.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-07, 18:43:20
Trump says Border Patrol ordered to let immigrants illegally cross border to vote in election (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-immigrants-rigging-election20161007-story.html) Recently arrived immigrants can't vote, not being citizens. How is it even possible to consider voting for this complete idiot?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-07, 20:09:04
Recently arrived immigrants can't legally vote, not being citizens.
Fixed that for ya! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-07, 21:38:28
Recently arrived immigrants can't legally vote, not being citizens.
Fixed that for ya! :)
So, illegally speaking, they can vote just fine? And both parties are okay even though the problem is known?

When voting in America, do you have to identify yourself or not? As in ID-card or such.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-07, 22:23:17
When voting in America, do you have to identify yourself or not? As in ID-card or such.
Nope. And, and although many state legislatures have passed laws requiring such, most have been put on hold or rescinded because of "disparate impact" lawsuits, whose reasoning is tortuous — to say the least!
So, illegally speaking, they can vote just fine? And both parties are okay even though the problem is known?
The Democrats are. Most Republicans aren't…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-07, 22:33:19
When voting in America, do you have to identify yourself or not? As in ID-card or such.
Nope. And, and although many state legislatures have passed laws requiring such, most have been put on hold or rescinded because of "disparate impact" lawsuits, whose reasoning is tortuous — to say the least!
So abuse is built into the system and everybody insists that it remain so, even though easily preventable.

So, illegally speaking, they can vote just fine? And both parties are okay even though the problem is known?
The Democrats are. Most Republicans aren't…
Unlikely. How would Republicans argue for it? "We will ask your passports and ID at voting booth to make America great again. You will be freer than ever!" ???
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-07, 23:00:47
How would Republicans argue for it?
John Fund, writing at the National Review today, makes the case fairly well (see here (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440817/voter-fraud-real-dangerous-threat?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily%20Trending%20Email%20Reoccurring-%20Monday%20to%20Thursday%202016-10-07&utm_term=NR5PM%20Actives))…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-07, 23:14:29
So there is a thing called "voter registration" anyway. ID-cards are enough paperwork. We don't need more.

When you vote on a voting machine, wouldn't you still have to identify yourself all the way down to fingerprint, iris, urine, saliva, and dna?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PLTZxLNTUk[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-07, 23:15:16
Nope.
You don't identify for voting??
My goodness, this is even much worst what people taught it was.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-07, 23:58:38
I'll bet Howie would applaud how "wide" our democracy is, in this instance… :) Here (http://www.nhregister.com/government-and-politics/20140926/bridgeport-state-rep-christina-ayala-arrested-on-19-voting-fraud-charges)'s a fine example!

The Democrats' mantra is "It's insignificant!"
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-08, 00:01:26
When you vote on a voting machine, wouldn't you still have to identify yourself all the way down to fingerprint, iris, urine, saliva, and dna?
In most Democratic districts, you don't even have to be above ground and breathing. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-08, 00:56:47
So, illegally speaking, they can vote just fine?
They wouldn't be able to register to vote in the first place. Trump was having paranoid delusions as usual, combined with excuse making when he loses.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-08, 02:12:02
They wouldn't be able to register to vote in the first place.
And they can't work without Social Security cards, either! Blatant and willful blindness, Sang.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-10-08, 08:30:54
They wouldn't be able to register to vote in the first place.
And they can't work without Social Security cards, either! Blatant and willful blindness, Sang.
But surely that's the same for your counterproposal? If it's not the system that's broken[1] but the extent to which city officials actually follow the rules, then why would the same (kind of) people who aren't properly checking IDs now do it better if they have to do it twice?
I'd argue it is compared to how it works in, e.g., the Netherlands, but not in a manner relevant to the discussion. We're all registered to vote automatically and then we have the choice to show up and identify ourselves with our ID and our call to vote. Same as in the US I believe, but without having to register. Although living abroad I do have to register because I'm not a citizen of any Dutch municipalities, but that aside.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-08, 08:52:12
When you vote on a voting machine, wouldn't you still have to identify yourself all the way down to fingerprint, iris, urine, saliva, and dna?
In most Democratic districts, you don't even have to be above ground and breathing. :)
But if dead people get to vote, this is surely not the fault of the dead people. As @Frenzie indicates, it's the fault of the officials.

So Trump is blaming officials, not illegals. Is he promising a sweeping turnover of staff at border control and among those who register people to vote? Would that solve the problem or would it itself become a problem, what do you think? Because if Republicans get to mess with staff relevant to elections, then so must Democrats get to do it. Are you saying this would be something where everyone would win? I suspect this is the situation already, so Trump is really promising nothing and whining about nothing.

Edit: Or is Trump ultimately saying something like, "If I lose, it's because those #@*% Dems rigged the elections again. If I win, I will have won despite Dems having rigged the elections!"
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-08, 11:53:47
I noticed an earlier frustration from midnight on the stupidity of people waning to vote for Trump. Can understand that in a strong sense but why do so many feel inclined for him?Haven't things declined somewhat?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-08, 14:27:46
And they can't work without Social Security cards, either! Blatant and willful blindness, Sang.
Standing outside Home Depot and getting official documents are completely separate things :p Don't tell me you're trying to defend his paranoid fantasies.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-08, 16:31:17
Don't tell me you're trying to defend his paranoid fantasies.
Don't tell me you're naive enough to discount voter fraud…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-08, 16:35:04
I get it. Oakdale likes to explain and justify Trump's inanities, to explain the inexplicable and justify the unjustifiable. So I offer him these gems from a 2005 tape of Trump:

Quote from:  Donald Trump
I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn't get there, and she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she's now got the big phony tits and everything.

Quote from: Donald Trump
I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women]—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.
Yes, he's talking about kissing women and grabbing them by the genitals without any kind of permission on the basis that he's "a star."

This is the guy that wants to be president :faint: Still want to explain away Trump's statements, Oakdale? Go for it :yes:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-08, 16:44:21
Don't tell me you're naive enough to discount voter fraud...
Please stop. You're embarrassing yourself by giving Trumps moronic/paranoid conspiracy theory any credence at all. What's supposedly happening? There are Democratic operatives waiting on this side of the border (or maybe acting as coyotes) illegal immigrants voter cards , despite the fact that when you register your ID information is taken and verified before you actually get your voter card in the mail? Give me a break. I feel ashamed for you because Republicans seem incapable of feeling any themselves for the idiocy they have to support this election.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-08, 17:32:16
This is what Trump's running mate, Mike Pence, had to say about those comments:

Quote
As a husband and father, I was offended by the words and actions described by Donald Trump in the eleven-year-old video released yesterday," Pence said in a written statement. "I do not condone his remarks and cannot defend them. I am grateful that he has expressed remorse and apologized to the American people. We pray for his family and look forward to the opportunity he has to show what is in his heart when he goes before the nation tomorrow night
 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-08, 17:37:56
despite the fact that when you register your ID information is taken and verified before you actually get your voter card in the mail?
Glad to hear that Nevada's system is better than California's, Sang. Sorry to remind you of the disparity between their electoral votes, though.

Do I believe the Border Patrol has been issued "orders" to facilitate voter fraud? No, I don't.
Do I believe the Democrat Party has persistently and consistently facilitated voter fraud? Yes, I do — based on evidence going back to, say, 1960…when the "dead vote" went overwhelmingly for Kennedy! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-08, 17:39:43
Couldn't Trump just say "What difference, at this point, does it make?" :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-08, 17:49:29
What we're discussing is Trump's bizarre comments that illegal immigrants will somehow vote for Hillary and the border patrol was given orders to let them through. This is preposterous. The Trump Crazy Train has gone off the rails.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-08, 18:09:41
What we're discussing is Trump's bizarre comments that illegal immigrants will somehow vote for Hillary
You think they'll vote for Trump?! :)

It seems your support for Hillary has morphed into "She's not Trump" territory… My opposition to her remains "She's Hillary"!
————————————————————
A "fun fact": Barack Obama did not win in a single state that required a photo I.D. to vote in 2012. (source (http://www.capoliticalreview.com/capoliticalnewsandviews/vote-fraud-not-issues-to-determine-2016-presidential-election-like-it-did-in-2012/?utm_source=CAPoliticalReview.com&utm_campaign=4c44bf043b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b855a22bd3-4c44bf043b-302961965))
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-10-08, 19:18:58
Your feelings remain fueled by the tabloids. There's no greater ignorance than a man who's feelings make the decisions. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-10-08, 19:44:48
A "fun fact": Barack Obama did not win in a single state that required a photo I.D. to vote in 2012. (source (http://www.capoliticalreview.com/capoliticalnewsandviews/vote-fraud-not-issues-to-determine-2016-presidential-election-like-it-did-in-2012/?utm_source=CAPoliticalReview.com&utm_campaign=4c44bf043b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b855a22bd3-4c44bf043b-302961965))

Maybe voter fraud is rampant in America, although I thought it was called gerrymandering, but arguments like these are laughable.

Quote
There were also a whole host of precincts in Cuyahoga County where Mitt Romney received just one or two votes.  Overall, Barack Obama won more than 99 percent of the vote in more than 100 precincts in just this one county.

How in the world does that happen?

How does it happen that there is barely even a single person in some poverty-stricken precinct of Cleveland who would vote for the guy that called them leeches? Gee, it truly boggles the mind…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-08, 20:07:09
Maybe voter fraud is rampant in America,
For what I read dead people can vote. Twice.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-10-08, 22:27:18

Quote from:  Donald Trump
I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn't get there, and she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she's now got the big phony tits and everything.

- Reminds me of oral sex in the Oval Office. Would the Donald manage to top Bill Clinton?
- How about Hillary? Will she be the first Domina in the Oval Office? Will she make Kim Jong-un her slave?

US Presidents can be quite amusing if they are not too busy with military interventions and invasions. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-10-08, 22:29:32
For what I read dead people can vote. Twice.
Shit happens. :)
In a south European country dead people even received old-age pension. For years. ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-09, 03:39:01
Now Tic Tac[/url denounced Trump.

(http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/tic-tac-denounces-trump-229373)
Quote
“Tic Tac respects all women,” Tic Tac USA posted on Twitter Saturday afternoon. “We find the recent statements and behavior completely inappropriate and unacceptable.”

#tictacsagainsttrump ? :lol:

The article also reminds us this is the second time in as many weeks a candy company has denounced the Trump campaign, noting that Skittles did so after Trump's son compared Syrian refugees to their candy.

Not even candy can stand Trump, I guess.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-09, 06:38:14
One wonders, did Monica Lewinsky use TicTacs or Certs? Sang, you are once again desperate! Yes, Trump is a cad and a buffoon… But Hillary should be a felon, for actions inside and outside her government service.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-09, 07:27:47
One wonders, did Monica Lewinsky use TicTacs or Certs? Sang, you are once again desperate! Yes, Trump is a cad and a buffoon… But Hillary should be a felon, for actions inside and outside her government service.
By what standard is Trump not a felon?

"...didn't pay any federal income tax."

"That makes me smart."

Two felons are running against each other. The best solution? Let America be without president for the next term. A little timeout is clearly in order.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-09, 07:39:55
You have hit the nail on the head with that view on both Trump and Clinton and how it got to that sad and disturbing state is a very deep problem and shows there is a fundamental issue and a time for wider and more proper change is needed.  Neither candidate is of the requirement as well as being embarrassing, negative and many people shaking their head that things have got to this stage.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-09, 09:37:46
One wonders, did Monica Lewinsky use TicTacs or Certs? Sang, you are once again desperate! Yes, Trump is a cad and a buffoon… But Hillary should be a felon, for actions inside and outside her government service.
Bill Clinton is not running. Republicans do know this right? I'm telling now if Trump uses that line of attack tomorrow, he'll manage to make himself worse.

On voter fraud, repeated studies have shown this type of voter fraud is virtually non-existent. Nearly all that does occure is mail-in vote and there are strong indications Republicans do it more. The old rule applies: wanna know what crimes the Republicans are doing look at what they accuse the Democrats of.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-09, 13:02:42
Unfortunately for you poor folk over there Clinton is not some wonderful person.Apart from the email nonsense there is the latest fiasco being picked up on the news side re her two-faced stuff on the corporate backers. she has. Saying it is okay to have a private view and a different public one. Telling people it is time to take the Wall Street lot off the main street while she is hand to glove with the same lot! So it goes on. Because Trump makes a fool of himself somehow that makes the opposition white as damn white? no it doesn't and there will be those who just vote for her as the lesser of two evils. Many others not great about Trump don't like or trust her.  So it is all very well getting the daggers out for D. Trump but you are going to get stuck with someone else who is neither whiter than white or as honest as she should be. It is all very well too in shoving these things to the side but the next Presidential term will not be anything outstanding will be confrontational in the world and millions of poorer Americans going nowhere.

As much as I am no lover of the imperialistic and corporate empire in the world I do know sensible Americans in my life and feel for them as well.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-09, 14:39:27
Who said Clinton was "whiter as damn white?" The problem is Trump is a calamity waiting to happen, maybe on a global scale. I'll need to endure mockery from Oakdale for this, but just getting elected Hillary might be saving the Republic (maybe the world considering Trump's the lunatic that asked during his intelligence briefing why he can't use nuclear weapons....) There are no high hopes for Clinton, but it would be better to install a stray dog as president than elect Trump.

But so what if she gave a Wall Street speech, as if Trump isn't even more corporate? It might even be a positive, showing her clout and understanding of finance (remembering that her husband managed a budget surplus and very strong economic growth.) Imagine that, a president that actually understands finance and economics and not Republican voodoo economics along the lines of "Cut taxes for the rich and crank up military spending and some the deficit will shrink" or Leftist garbage that you can just keep increasing taxes without negatively impacting the economy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-09, 14:46:33
Let me elaborate on what I said to Oakdale about Trump making making himself look worse by attacking Hillary for Bill's indiscretions. Do you seriously think that attacking a woman because her husband had affairs makes anyone look like less of a dick? Think about it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-09, 15:33:33
Let me elaborate on what I said to Oakdale about Trump making making himself look worse by attacking Hillary for Bill's indiscretions. Do you seriously think that attacking a woman because her husband had affairs makes anyone look like less of a dick? Think about it.
We may think about it, but American voters won't. If thinking mattered, Repubs would have a different candidate. Some actual politician, not a wannabe from the business world.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ovas on 2016-10-09, 17:49:06
Vote for Trump => :D <= (http://ovas.club/index.php)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-09, 22:54:11
May I remind you midnight raccoon that Clinton HAS been far from honest and the latest wikkileak Clinton corporate news has shown that to be true. Saying that it is okay to have a private and public opinion amongst other things? The leaks have shown a two-faced description of the woman. As for the talks they ran into tens of millions of dollars and yes Trump is a rich man but she is the person who is sooking in with the traditional corporate interests. These latest discoveries in her emails (never mind the lack of security ones!) shows she is two-faced. What trump said over 10 years ago is terrible but many people are like that. Wasn't Kennedy and his brother both a couple of womanisers, didn't Hilary try to ignore or cover her own husband's long terrible womanising? Trump is no different from them when it boils down.

Trump has got where he has because so many people over there are fed up to the teeth with what passes for a political system and i can understand you being put off by him but his opponent is no better when added up.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-10-09, 23:59:18
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjEawvPc.png&hash=7e21df24744531c37e2789ebf7ee2bb3" rel="cached" data-hash="7e21df24744531c37e2789ebf7ee2bb3" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/jEawvPc.png)

Lovely couple.
One of them will be the next leader of the Free World!
 
 “In God We Trust”
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-10-10, 00:26:17
Bill Clinton is not running. Republicans do know this right?

Just like when Bill Clinton ran for President in '92, & '96. One of his sales lines out on the campaign trail was something like ".....you get two for the price of one...." speaking of Hillary, his lawyer wife & political confidant/soon to become Co-president.

Well in 2016 the tables are turned, but the sorry fact is, a vote for Hillary is also a vote to put Bill Clinton back in the White House ...... Two liars, Two sexual predators, & Two of 'only God knows what' else, yep you get "Two for the Price of One .....

So, like it or not, it's a package deal, one sexual predator .... one admitted liar .... & his enabler, his facilitator ... A woman who brazenly espouses woman's issues from one side of her mouth, but further victimized all of her husband's sexual victims as brutally as any woman could, & then some, calling them all the foul words any woman could use against another woman, from the other side of her lying mouth.

So, when you say Former President Bill Clinton isn't running for the White House ...... in reality, yes, he actually is ...... through his 'wife', who, along with Jeffrey Epstein, (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3825882/The-cozy-relationship-billionaire-Jeffrey-Epstein-Bill-Clinton-flew-pedophile-s-private-jet-praised-insights-generosity-detailed-new-book-James-Patterson.html) he owes all his continued sexual adventures, assaults, & philanderings to. Hillary, makes/made them all possible ..... past, present, & future .... Hillary is, & always was, Bill's sexual enabler ...... Slick Willy's sexual facilitator.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-10, 08:44:29
Of course, Sang, you're waiting to hear what you "think" before you post about the latest debate… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-10, 15:55:57
she is the person who is sooking in with the traditional corporate interests.
Trump is the corporate interest, Howie. This is a different thing than giving speeches on  Wall Street. I'm not sure why you don't understand this.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-10, 18:13:57
It is you who are playing an unfortunate game midnight. He is a corporate and the dumbest redneck would figure that one out but he is not acting like Clinton has with Wall Street corporates. She has played a game and is saying one thing on a platform but doing something else behind the scenes and far more than Trump is. When asked once about the massive sums on two speeches she just waffled and yakked about that was what was offered. She is more into Wall Street than the Trump man and everyone knows that.  Trump is more of an almost independent than a standing republican for all his negatives. Clinton is at the same time a con woman and liar. When faced with the negatives she is a waffler.

I can understand being a routine politico in one corner you are getting steamed up because of the rise of an outsider in politics but unfortunately your candidate is hardly outstanding really is she?  It is just a very  great pity that your side did not have less of a liar, global confrontationalist and wt al.  That Trump has done so well it only illkustrates the dis-satisfaction many are feeling about regular politicans and she is one of them.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-10, 22:40:02
Any European sindicalist leftist morrone is a political genius compared with this pair of idiots.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-10-10, 23:20:45



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj1IicWHwPM[/VIDEO]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-11, 03:53:30
Oh yes. I remember that, but somehow forget this wasn't Red China or North Korea where political opponents are locked up. This is supposed to be a republic with strong democratic traditions, not a dictatorship. Thank you for pointing a reason he's a danger to the republic as we know it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-11, 04:50:59
where political opponents are locked up
You, of course, meant to say: Where politically connected cronies aren't given special treatment and privileges… You know, like Hillary Clinton.

I'm surprised AG Lynch wasn't "grilled" about her impromptu conversation with Bill Clinton: What did she know, about his grandchildren and his golf game? Those rascally Republicans are downright mean! Democrats have every right to subvert and evade justice; the laws of the land are for "little people"…

Hey, Sang: How do you feel about the fellow whose YouTube video was blamed for the four American deaths in Benghazi? (You don't really care about prosecutorial excess… It's all just politics, to you. Typical Democrat. Hillary would be proud! :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-11, 06:06:17
As you know, it was already explained in detail why there was nothing to her charge with. Trump himself must know this. He'll do it out of the petty spite of a would-be dictator behaving like the strongman of a third world hellhole. Her "crime" is oppossing Trump.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-11, 20:43:08
it was already explained in detail why there was nothing to her charge with
In excruciating detail: It would be politically impossible; no federal prosecutor would dare risk their career by crossing Clinton and Obama…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-12, 23:04:26
You, of course, meant to say: Where politically connected cronies aren't given special treatment and privileges... You know, like Hillary Clinton.
Let's play a game.

Step One: Think of some bad (but true-ish) thing to say about Hillary Clinton. Go as mean and evil as you like, so that everybody would be deterred from voting for her.

Step Two: Defend Trump from the very same accusation.

To me it seems that everything you blame Hillary for, Trump is the same double worse. The point of the game is to prove me wrong.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-13, 00:14:38
Well midnight is right in commenting the country is meant a Republic with democratic traditions. 'Meant' is the topical word.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-13, 02:42:23
To me it seems that everything you blame Hillary for, Trump is the same double worse.
How many political offices has he held? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-13, 05:23:01
To me it seems that everything you blame Hillary for, Trump is the same double worse.
How many political offices has he held? :)
Exactly. If Hillary be called a "flawed politician", then Trump is not even a politician. He's a flawed businessman and you think that would make a better president.

Next.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-13, 07:11:37
You and I, obviously, have different criteria about who matters… Like Clinton, you think even the "big" little people don't. :)
The political class "deserves" to rule, by your way of thinking? (I'm sorry the Soviets did such a number on you; but if you'll review European history that's not such a "leap forward"…)
We have a chance, with Trump. I grant, it's a slim one… We have a snowball's chance in Hell with Clinton. That's a given.
It's not Hobson's choice, you know.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-10-13, 10:11:51
We have a chance, with Trump.
A chance to...
A chance to...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-13, 10:45:01
You and I, obviously, have different criteria about who matters…
In my case, it's more like what matters. As I've suggested above, the country could really use a timeout. Nobody for president.

The political class "deserves" to rule, by your way of thinking?
What does "rule" mean here? From my point of view, we are talking about a job where one is qualified or not. The process of election may obscure this point, but surely you agree that bad things happen when someone unqualified is ruling.

Anyway, another thing I have suggested above: Go for Trump and America will go down in notime. Unless his handlers do their job extra carefully.
 
We have a chance, with Trump. I grant, it's a slim one… We have a snowball's chance in Hell with Clinton. That's a given.
It's not Hobson's choice, you know.
A chance for what? For nuclear war? To deter the invasion of aliens? What's the chance you are talking about?

Btw, welcome back Jimbro!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-10-13, 10:47:42
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjEawvPc.png&hash=7e21df24744531c37e2789ebf7ee2bb3" rel="cached" data-hash="7e21df24744531c37e2789ebf7ee2bb3" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/jEawvPc.png)

Lovely couple.
One of them will be the next leader of the Free World!
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos1.blogger.com%2Fblogger%2F7390%2F693%2F320%2Ftrump%2520green%2520acres.jpg&hash=63a5878a836302ef2103cc31f30f295b" rel="cached" data-hash="63a5878a836302ef2103cc31f30f295b" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7390/693/320/trump%20green%20acres.jpg)
 “In God We Trust”
Or not.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-13, 16:18:16
This guy has an image to keep up. Tough job by itself.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nicehair.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F01%2FDonald-Trump-bald-losing-hair.jpg&hash=76612f0a187d2c867c918edefbc74f8f" rel="cached" data-hash="76612f0a187d2c867c918edefbc74f8f" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.nicehair.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Donald-Trump-bald-losing-hair.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-13, 17:10:36
Now four women have stepped forward with charges that Trump of doing exactly what he boasted of when he said "I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women]--I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything." Attacking Hillary for Bill's affairs was not a smart move, especially for someone who sexually assaults women and brags about it (of course, there's also the factor of there's few worse assholes as someone who attacks a women because her husband had affairs and doing that makes you a bonafide scumbag....)

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-14, 08:41:39
I'd thought that Democrats had long ago given up any moral grounds concerning "sex"…
Hillary's "what does it matter" comment about an American ambassador hung out to dry is obviously not important. I mean, after all, he's like dead, you know? :(

Sang, we didn't know each other back in the '90s. But I remember them. Still I don't doubt that the Democrat line "It's only sex" is one that you'd approve of…
But not for someone calling himself a Republican!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-14, 09:15:40
No moral ground vs "Grab them by the pussy" as moral ground.

Next.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-14, 15:43:10
This is not consensual sex. To be clear, this is about sexual assault.
But Ersi is asking for "next" and he shall have it. I'm sourcing this from Red State (http://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2016/10/13/trump-cant-be-trusted-with-our-nuclear-codes/) to show this isn't just partisan concern.

Ten officers formerly in charge of America's nuclear arsenal penned a letter expressing their deep concerns about Trump having is finger anywhere near the "red button"

Quote
He has shown himself time and again to be easily baited and quick to lash out, dismissive of expert consultation and ill-informed of even basic military and international affairs — including, most especially, nuclear weapons," the letter states. "Donald Trump should not be the nation's commander-in-chief. He should not be entrusted with the nuclear launch codes. He should not have his finger on the button."

The officers said the Republican nominee lacks the "composure, judgment, restraint and diplomatic skill" necessary for any commander in chief to possess.

.....

Quote
…it's very possible that this person, this pathological liar, who lacks self-control, who knows very little about anything and is angry and aggressive, who might lash out with nuclear weapons if he's elected, could win. That sort of dawned on everyone. We felt we needed to weigh in.
The author goes on to note she's in agreement with the officers.

Out of all the presidents of US and the Soviet Union/Russia, he would be by far the most mentally unstable of the bunch and most likely to order a launch and trigger the nuclear apocalypse. Far fetched? No. Remember that during his intelligence briefing this the lunatic that asked why he can't use nuclear weapons.

A former missile silo operator made twenty tweets explaining what the nukes are for and why Trump needs to be far away from them. (http://mashable.com/2016/08/03/trump-nuclear-tweets/#LQZUNcMThaqo)

Quote
9. Because Trump would be undoing 6 decades of proven deterrence theory. The purpose of nukes is that they are never used. Trump disagrees?

Quote
12. But what really concerns me, as a former nuke guy, is the idea of a narcissist walking around with nuclear authenticators.

Quote
14. But imagine having to turn launch keys not knowing if we were under attack or if it was b/c foreign leader said a mean thing on twitter

Quote
15. The power is there to kill millions. Permanently alter the geopolitical landscape. It is a sacred, sobering responsibility.


17-20 put together for clarity:

Quote
Simply signaling that you're open to using strategic weapons as a tactical solution rewrites the rule book. Russia, China, others will  respond. Nuclear deterrence is about balance. Trump is an elephant jumping up and down on one side of the scale. So damn dangerous. But geopolitics aside, I can't get my mind off the young officers on nuke alert right now. Wondering if they'll soon answer to a madman.  And be asked to do a duty that should morally be asked of no human being, ever. //end
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-14, 21:27:38
one of the things on trump's stance was retreating his country from constant world control stuff whereas Clinton will be a sword shaker. Both him and Clinton are probably the most concerning candidates for President for a long time. People in legions are doubting both Trump and Clinton for all her would-be experience. As I have oft said if America got out of this nonsense about "having to be" leader of the world things would be a lot better. Instead constant wars and using the nonsense of needing such for defence of the country. Yeah, right. Even Obama came out with this nonsense on a speech  saying the country had to be the world leader. What utter nationalism and imperialistic undertone stuff.

With 2 people in the election who have a great mistrust amongst so many voters it does not bear well for the country as whole and the tend of millions suffering in the country will get no damn where. Heavens, even a person from Edinburgh would be a better bet!  :devil:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-10-16, 07:39:41
The Most Important WikiLeaks Revelation Isn’t About Hillary Clinton (https://newrepublic.com/article/137798/important-wikileaks-revelation-isnt-hillary-clinton)

Quote
The most important revelation in the WikiLeaks dump of John Podesta’s emails has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. The messages go all the way back to 2008, when Podesta served as co-chair of President-elect Barack Obama’s transition team. And a month before the election, the key staffing for that future administration was almost entirely in place, revealing that some of the most crucial decisions an administration can make occur well before a vote has been cast.

"Yes, We Can"
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-16, 09:14:35
The final day approaching, I'm certain Trump has no chance.

He's just running for hide the fact there's no two parties anymore, he's role is to give the appearance the regime is still a democracy, to distract the masses from the new order's totalitarianism presented under Hilary's terrorizing facial expressions.

I believe he was paid for that. Such creature has to be an artificial creation.

Americans should revolt. Even if it is too late.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-16, 22:58:33
America is not in the moral use of the word 'democratic.' It may try to give the impression it is but the hard truth is that it has developed into a very corporate controlled fiefdom. Trump is a corporate but the vast corporate world is in Clinton's corner and this has been well proved y the hypocrisy of what she said to the corporates and those big bucks speeches whilst at the same time telling the voters she will sort them out. That so many Americans have flocked to Trump is an embarrassment for the intelligent over there but they get all worked up if Clinton is criticised as she is the only alternative and there are many who either don't like her, respect her or even impressed.

The hard fact that Trump gets so many people is of course nationally an embarrassment for many with grey cells but it utter frustration by many ordinary folk who are sick and tired of how the country is run the billions on bases all over the damn world and the lack of spending more at home. When I emphasise the 10 figure number losing homes annually the tens of millions of poor the interference is the privacy of people for 'security' these basic importances just get ignored here on the forum. The political/corporate barons come out with all the usual guff about the world's greatest democracy which is not true. The anguish, lack, struggle of tens of millions just get bypassed and this is why Donald Trump has got so many flocking to him  because of the utter frustration that has gradually crept in. Twice i mentioned that Eisenhower a Republican pillar as President warned Americans of the powerful rise of the corporate lot and he was so true. Trump is more of a third party stance but that Republicans wanted him shows what is deep and worrying for so many of the citizenry. At last they have grown to realise they are being lied to by the political/corporate controllers and desperate for a change.

Both Trump and Clinton are the two most strained candidates for President in an awful long time and shows there is a very deep and concerning flaw. If Clinton presently wins being an 'experienced politician' I can bet that at the end of her first term on this thread there will be no great difference in the lack of democracy, wide concerns about the system and so on. Democracy is an oft used word but the practice is something else and the future is not bright.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-17, 01:04:32
This is too funny for words from me: https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/10/14/2251245/top-democrats-request-fbi-investigation-of-trump-campaign-ties-to-russia-over-hacking
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-17, 14:13:41
And you would have thought it was funny that Nixon had anything to do with a certain burglary at the Watergate Hotel. Right now, the evidence is only circumstantial just like the evidence against Nixon was. I know you're easily confused, so I have to point out I'm not saying this is true but is within the realm of possibility. If Donald the Don manages to get elected, this could well be Watergate 2.0.

While the Republicans cheer the Wikileaks on, they seem to forget they're now in supporting illegal activity. How does it feel to condone criminal activity as long as it slightly helps the Republicans chances? I thought the GOP were supposed to be the law and order guys. I guess I was mistake.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-17, 14:21:23
Such creature has to be an artificial creation.
This isn't the first time I heard this, that Trump is candidate designed to lose. But I don't think so. You have to understand just how uneducated and reactionary the GOP base has become to fully comprehend they choose him against the GOP leadership's wishes. The RNC likely knew from the beginning that he was a nutcase that would blow the election.

The US does have a two party system. I wouldn't know what I'm talking about if I went into detail about Portuguese politics, likewise you're in the same situation regarding American politics. On social and cultural issues, the gap between the parties is growing, not shrinking.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-10-17, 14:35:42
This is too funny for words from me: https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/10/14/2251245/top-democrats-request-fbi-investigation-of-trump-campaign-ties-to-russia-over-hacking
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ZsZoPzWFYLv7l5u/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-17, 23:13:32
How does it feel to condone criminal activity as long as it slightly helps [your side]?
I'd have to ask a Democrat, Sang… :)
You have to understand just how uneducated and reactionary the GOP base has become to fully comprehend [how] they choose [Trump] against the GOP leadership's wishes.
Uneducated and reactionary? My goodness, Sang, you're too subtle for me! :)
I guess you're back to "the seriousness of the charge" as opposed to the level of evidence…

But let's get back to important stuff: Briggs takes time out of his e-holiday to explain the Democrat party's priority in an article titled Thermonuclear War: A Small Price To Pay To Stop Trump (http://wmbriggs.com/post/20041/). (Do view the video, too…) :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-18, 00:12:31
Oh dear, did that hurt your feelings? You didn't support Trump yourself and "hope for the best" if he gets elected.  Why is that? Is it because you know in your heart that he's completely unsuitable to be president?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-10-18, 00:16:01
(Do view the video, too...)
That's not a video. It's garbage, like the rest.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Lfd1aB9YI[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-18, 00:54:23
That's not a video. It's garbage, like the rest.
You only like comedy? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-18, 01:53:55
Oh dear, did that hurt your feelings?
No: I expect you to be ultra-partisan whenever you can't find a reasonable (someone else's… :) ) argument! It's what you do.

Regarding Wikileaks, Professor Volokh has a bit to say (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/10/17/remember-its-illegal-to-possess-wikileaks-clinton-emails-but-its-different-for-the-media-says-cnns-chris-cuomo/?utm_term=.48873e9b6718) that obviates your enmity… That is, if you approve of the 1st amendment right to free speech — which I sincerely doubt. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-10-18, 02:09:33
You only like comedy?
You do understand the topic, right? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-18, 03:27:47
I do: What the political machinations of the ruling class and the media elites will do, to ensure their preeminence… And how that is perceived by the public.

You (…surprisingly, to me) seem to have become another Howie, just watching your telly…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-18, 06:56:43
No: I expect you to be ultra-partisan whenever you can't find a reasonable (someone else's...  :)  )
Oh my. We have a republican again accusing the alleged Democrat of being exactly how they are. That article deals with the media possessing the documents and the first amendment. However, it was always illegal to break into someone's office ransack their file cabinets/servers. Perhaps this is why the attacks had to come from outside the US, to make it more difficult for American authorities to apprehend the criminal hackers. I'm not a lawyer of course, it it seems to be against [urlhttps://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1030]18 U.S. Code § 1030 - Fraud and related activity in connection with computers [/url] That law is quite extensive. How is even possible that Republicans even began to think that hacking state dept and other files was even remotely legal? How much kool-aid does that? That's why I'm tellling you that if Trump somehow, we're staring directly at Watergate 2.0 and before it was over, Trump would have been forced out of office.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-10-18, 07:05:48
Aww, no smiley for me? Probably for the best. I don't think you understand how those work [either]. It can mean many things... But if you use it all the time it means nothing.

I spent more time [2hrs] looking thru a scope tonight. Damn coyotes are in the area and I've got a new baby in the field (which reminds me, I need to get some pics off my phone). Big pack based on the sound of them, that worries me and I've lost my tactical advantage. My llama died of old age this summer. :rip: (Dolly Llama, heh heh.) My dog is good at letting me know when they are close but I think him being quiet clues them in to my presence. That llama was like a compass to the problem tho. I could always tell where they were and how close by her behavior. Wind was to my favor tonight but I just couldn't get eyes on 'em without her help. I'd rather not wiff a warning shot after midnight... :psmurf:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-18, 12:07:09
Condolences for the loss of llama. Hopefully you will find a new one soon http://www.walnutridgellamas.com/llamas-for-sale/
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-18, 17:50:18
As Clinton is prophesied to win will someone please get round to saying how that is going to help the tens of millions in the States who are suffering as the matter is always totally ignored here.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-18, 18:19:49
That's why I'm tellling you that if Trump somehow,
Just because you can imagine something, Sang, doesn't make it true… Or does it, in your world? :)
Dream on!

@Howie: You'd be thinking of enlarging our welfare state? That would only cement the problem into place…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-10-18, 19:08:36
how that is going to help the tens of millions in the States who are suffering as the matter is always totally ignored here.

How can that be? You bring it up once a week.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-10-18, 19:40:46
Condolences for the loss of llama. Hopefully you will find a new one soon http://www.walnutridgellamas.com/llamas-for-sale/ (http://www.walnutridgellamas.com/llamas-for-sale/)
Thanks, however that's about 4.5hrs (9hr round trip) away.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.walnutridgellamas.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F02%2FMy-Maria1-1-300x359.jpg&hash=9156482ba53645a29c2631f4c8be44d5" rel="cached" data-hash="9156482ba53645a29c2631f4c8be44d5" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.walnutridgellamas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/My-Maria1-1-300x359.jpg)
They are so awkward you just have to love them.  :heart: 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-18, 22:40:51
Lamas are not yours. Love your turkeys.
Turkeys are better than American politics. Glu Glu Glu.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-18, 23:14:34
Well ensbb3 can i inform you as simply as possible to allow for your ex-colonist brain strain that neither you nor Oakdale for example while dribbling about my opinion have never once answered my points about the 43 million on food stamps the million annually losing homes and so on. When I ask of such large and internal issues are going to be handled by say Clinton or anyone you lot just ignore these problems. Shows how much you are unable to answer or just know they will not be seen to. Obama for all the stuff we heard about him did NOTHING on those important failures and Clinton will be the same. So instead if trying to rubbish me or the straightforward challenge you body-swerve. It is therefore very obvious that there is not going to be an answer and while the corporates will still pull the strings after the farce of an election for 2 people who are a farce. So come on give an answer.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-18, 23:21:32
Obama for all the stuff we heard about him did NOTHING on those important failures and Clinton will be the same.
Oh, no, Howie: You've got it quite wrong! Obama -and Hillary, when her turn comes- will institute policies and govern in ways guaranteed to exacerbate such problems…
You can't see that, from your Scot-socialist perspective, of course.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-10-19, 01:44:15
So come on give an answer.
Llamas man. Do keep up.

They are steady, rough terrain, pack animals that always seem to know where the problem is - shows the proper amount of nervousness towards the problem - And, an oddly relevant detail I felt no need to disclose until now, they only poop in like one or two spots (No idea what's up with that, quite tidy tho. :up: ). Rather than a bird of prey we should adopt a South American llama as our national symbol. Not like it's mythological or anything.

Now, given it's oddly useful tidiness we'd just need to point the 'business end' somewhere else..? Definitely north of Portugal...
 
Turkeys are better than American politics. Glu Glu Glu.
...Given our current agreement over American politics such a great nation should do better.

Hmm? So where?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Love your turkeys.
Dear god man! Have you ever seen a wild turkey? Not the most lovable of monsters. More likely to eat your face off.
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSW8r86EYr_m4LebVkizU41a08Uqvn3ehkT2B7XgsqaP6SJmvFj)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-19, 20:14:29
Trump is begging money abroad (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=99&artikel=6542794)

Either he has no sense of rule of law or he has been hacked by Russians. Not mutually exclusive :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-20, 14:48:24
Trump committed political suicide last night.

Quote from: Richard R Strain of the conservative American Enterprise Institute
That was horrifying. Based on that answer alone, I hope Mr Trump loses all 50 states. He deserves to. He is attacking democracy itself.
In reference to his steadfast refusal to say if he'll accept the outcome of the election.

Quote from: Former Chairmen of the Republican Party Micheal Steele
His answer inflicts serious damage to his campaign because in the end the American people want to know if you can be a good loser
What else is there to say? Prominent fellow Republicans hope he loses big at this point. Sad thing thing is Hillary will be sworn in and become president if he "accepts" the outcome or not, so with his last strands of sanity he might as well go down with grace.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-20, 15:38:36
Not being a Scots socialist Oakdale I make allowances for the average ex-colonist being "duh" about anywhere else! And ersi just following the modern anti-Russian propaganda nonsense. When you seriously think about the countries the West has mucked up by imperialist or military nonsense makes it look stupid.

Clinton is a warmonger and dangerous woman and depends on the usual corporates. We all know that Trump is a corporate but he is not in the same club as Clinton's wider lot. May I remind the ersi mindsets that Clinton came out with all that rubbish about Putin and the Kremlin trying to control the electoral system in nutjobland and she stands in front of a mike nodding her head ojn that guff. Proof? none.  Trump got wide support because so many Americans are sick and tired of the "system" and his followers know that Clinton will do sod all about the tens of millions struggling in he country and who have had their loyalty corrupted and misused. Oakdale does touch on a very honest passing point in that my questions on the food poor stamps folk the legions losing homes will not be answered. Clinton will rattle up the military expenditure and the hundreds of bases across the world. For security? Nah it keeps her corporate industry supporters in her corner.  The anti-Russian nonsense is being used as an excuse and laughable when you think what America gets up to across the world.

What a political leader over there needs to do is close scores of military bases stop trying to control the world on the benefit of the big money people and start trying to help the millions of Americans who are poor and suffering in the country. I did think in passing that Clinton's opponent for the Democrats was in the sensible direction but he has become a hypocrite.  People of honesty and proper intelligence must not just get hyped up at Trump being where he is but challenge themselves to ask why so many ordinary and frustrated people have flocked to him.  Oakdale got slightly near my assertion challenge as to why the important challenges i raise on food stamps and military expense, etc were getting fed up with it but not once has there been a direct and capable answer at my assertions because they are too hard to face.

Clinton in the White House will be a groan and military confrontations instead of the poor in America will be the damn nonsense to be ignored. If she makes a big difference in both my strong points then I will at the end of her first term give a donation of $100 dollars to a charity. For a Scot who is part of a tradition of sensible with money that is with much confidence!  :happy:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-20, 15:51:09
Trump committed political suicide last night.
Don't cheer too early. He will rise like a, well, like a zombie, and win proudly!


In the third debate, Trump said that Putin said nice things about him (about Trump) while he (Putin) has no respect for Clinton and Obama.

Here's what Putin really said.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avBAT6Op0lU[/video]

The Russian word translates as "bright" or "brilliant" only with regard to the sun. When applied to people, it means something like "quite a character". So no, Putin did not say nice things about Trump. If Trump builds his foreign policy based on the assumption that Putin thinks he's nice...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-20, 19:49:50
It would be funny if he refuses the result of elections.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-20, 23:56:42
In reference to his steadfast refusal to say if he'll accept the outcome of the election.
You mean, like Al Gore did in 2000 and John Kerry did in 2004? :) (If you forgot: Kerry and company thought the exit polls should count for more than the actual vote tallies…) As far as I could tell, Trump merely declined to forgo legal remedies — in case of "irregularities".
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-21, 01:25:28
In a basic way Donald Trump was right as far as "irregularities" go and yet that gets ignored? I did have to kind of shake my head in the debate between the 2 candidates when Clinton went on about security agencies (17 of them!) went on about Russia interfering with elections. Not one of those agencies could produce proof and she misused that corner and also body-swerved the email situations. Now in hard practice she is an experienced politician unlike Trump but she has been a liar and manipulator as well. Trump has got the support he has because many people have got sickened off by the way the system operates and the political families who think they have a special damn right to run the place. in modern time both the Bush and Clinton ones for example.

It is of course an obvious thing that someone who is not a politician like Donald trump is a man with things that may be unsure but his opponent with all her experience is not something to boast about. If she wins the friction being caused in the world by Obama and Clinton will be in danger of getting worse. When she comes up with all the head shaking guff about Russia that is an attempt to take the mind of people away from the  very deep problems the county has and millions of it's people who are suffering. Had Hilary Clinton been a more honest and really principled person her experience would be something but she fails there. Donald Trump has no political experience as such compared to her  and so many have responded to him because they are damn fed up with the way the country is being run. In a wide sense my $100 dollars are safe and if Clinton gets in expect more military friction as she must please her corporate backers especially those in the military industry.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-21, 03:12:52
You mean, like Al Gore did in 2000 and John Kerry did in 2004?
Recounting Florida is hardly the same as refusing to say you'll accept the outcome and you know it.
In a basic way Donald Trump was right as far as "irregularities" go and yet that gets ignored?
No, he's not. He's trying to claim that illegal aliens are going to vote for Clinton, which even the more sensible Republicans roll their eyes and shake their heads at. Even Trump's surrogates are trying change the message to "the media is 'rigging' the election" but he goes back to his own idiocy. In fact, the media is just reporting what happened, just like they did for months over Clinton's emails - to Trump's benefit.
 
If she wins the friction being caused in the world by Obama and Clinton will be in danger of getting worse.
Hardly. British telly might show this, but Trump behaves likes like a small child or mentally unstable person. Putin and Trump might get along now, but I guarantee Putin will say something to get under Trump's thin skin and he'll go completely off the rails at Putin and make relations worse. 

f Clinton gets in expect more military friction
Expect worse than Clinton because of his temperament. He'll throw a temper tantrum one day and start a war over nothing. It's discovered that a US born terrorist's parent were born in Ethiopia (or where ever) and watch the bombs fall over that country. I'm afraid you're not understand how mentally unstable Trump has shown himself to be, which is probably not your fault since you live over the ocean from Trump's antics.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-21, 05:35:49
Recounting Florida is hardly the same as refusing to say you'll accept the outcome and you know it.
Excuse me!? :) He conceded the election, and then un-conceded — because he thought a partial count in heavily Democrat districts might give him an edge…
Oh? You mean he didn’t say he’d do such a thing beforehand? Well, he’s a Democrat, after all! Win at all costs… :)
You’ll never understand what happened in 2000. Nor admit what was tried in 2004… And, should Hillary not win in 2016, you’ll come up with yet another conspiracy theory to explain how reality sucks!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-21, 05:39:36
Better to send international observers to guarantee the elections process. Like in Ruanda...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-21, 05:52:21
Rwanda? International observers observe "international" standards — nothing to do with accuracy or fairness… Just the opposite, I've noticed.
(I never voted for Jimmy Carter, and never accepted his "aw, shucks" pose: He was always a liberal — in the modern American sense of the term, not the traditional European one.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-10-21, 10:35:01
This thread will die on Nov. 9 when little dick Trump's Titantic sinks beneath the waves of Crooked Hillary's ship of state.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/65/bd/93/65bd93414661a2827723e2dcb07326dc.jpg)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14705792_10103822726637178_2848897389376170576_n.jpg?oh=6bb7106571a158e6857ac35feefbca17&oe=5891A5B3)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-10-21, 11:49:07
It never ends!
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcamax.com%2Fnewspics%2F148%2F14828%2F1482828.gif&hash=ea98520bc5fd335e6498e4fe86b0c57a" rel="cached" data-hash="ea98520bc5fd335e6498e4fe86b0c57a" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.arcamax.com/newspics/148/14828/1482828.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-21, 13:55:04
Oh please, Oakdale. Trump is the man preemptively threatening to accept the results in an election that's looking to be an electoral college landslide and maybe even a popular vote one if he keeps up his antics, further he claims the election is "rigged" (just like the Emmys when he didn't win....) He blames everybody but himself. I see that idiocy about 2000 and 2004 is all over right wing blogs, despite the fact that it isn't remotely the same situations. Republicans :rolleyes: Oh and Kerry did concede the election :p
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-21, 17:49:36
Better to send international observers to guarantee the elections process. Like in Ruanda...
There always are international observers, at every elections in our countries. You just don't hear about them when everything is okay. You hear about them from third world countries and when they are blocked from observing.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-21, 22:14:49
What struck me about the tv debates between the 2 unfortunate comedians is that much of the content was of little use. Many more pressing matters that would be general in other countries were just not par of the comedy. They were poor and only emphasised the hard truth that these two are probably the worst two in a Presidential Election for a long time. What that shows is the depth of a serious problem that exists and at the same time more an more Americans are getting fed up with who they are getting and the farce of the shows.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-22, 06:29:37
Oh and Kerry did concede the election :p
He kinda had to: He lost.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-22, 08:55:47
You hear about them from third world countries and when they are blocked from observing.
Exactly my point, we should be hearing something from international observers when a candidate promises to put in jail the other, when a candidate menaces to refuse to accept the results, etc. These are clear accusations of fraud,manipulation and intimidation, not anything like free elections by international standards.

Third world politics and elections indeed.
The world ignores Oakdale's advices, "this is not a democracy"...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-22, 14:16:26
He kinda had to: He lost.
Just like Trump is going to lose. At least Kerry didn't start make excuses and casting bizarre conspiracy theories about his defeat * even before the votes were counted.

*millions of illegal immigrants are going to somehow vote for Hillary, etc? Really? What does one have smoke to believe that or are Trump and is supporters really this insane? There is no defending Trump in any credible way at this point.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-22, 19:46:37
I do have to express concern that Hilary Clinton did avoid an awful lot of media interviews unlike Donald Trump so why was that? Is there something in the accusation that so much of the media was not expressing a balance but in her corner? As I also said much of the tv show rubbish was a waste of time as more pressing issues were body-swerved. The general standard too was poor. Clinton will get in but for those people I feel sorry for it will make no damn difference to their legions of suffering. In addition she will be a warmonger. It has also been obvious that an awful lot of people over there who aren't Trump fans are suspicious of Clinton and with goodly reason.  Bags of money will continue or a whole range of "security agencies, hundreds of military bases (not needed) , supporting corporate string pulling and so on.

Neither candidate is a saviour and the poorest two for decades. It kind of shows why more and more are getting fed up with the structure stuck with and for a short time the senator who lost to Clinton would have been very different from the two you poor folk are stuck with over there.

Safe $100
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-23, 04:34:44
Because whoever's your MP will lift your "legions" of poor out if their "suffering" , Howie? Save your pity for your own countrymen.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-23, 21:39:59
no comparison at all midnight racoon and if your brain gets a rest and thinks carefully you will realise that. you doi not have a Welfare Estate a national health service especially if one of the 43 million on food stamps. a country that boasts of democracy (hundreds of thousands not registered) the greatest democracy (giggle) at least 17 protection agencies and much more hypocrisy. When you loot cannot face the actual you time and time again switch to somewhere else rather than cope with the shambles. the most boastful country on Earth yet the hard facts speak volumes so maybe you lot stopped boasting and faced the truth. Instead of challenging the issue of tens of millions of poor (note tens) the 10 figure losing homes and the farce of the electoral corporate system.

instead the big and negative issues just get ignored here because you can't deal with them nor that obvious hypocrisy.  And I also know that my $100 dollars are perfectly safe and that gets ignored as well as the poverty and lack of democracy, etc.  :whistle:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-24, 02:20:35
The US is sooooo horrible, blah, blah, blah. In fact, people aren't "losing homes" in the numbers you suggest. The actual foreclosure rate is one in 1592, largely because people were approved for mortgages they should have been declined for (subprime mortgages and whatnot.) But you have no interest in facts, just in spewing the same anti-American garbage regardless of the actual thread topic.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-24, 02:35:22
Actual votes so far for Nevada :yes:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-trump-may-depress-republican-turnout-spelling-disaster-for-the-gop/

Quote
Instead of a poll, let’s start today’s Election Update with some actual votes. According to the estimable Nevada journalist Jon Ralston, Democrats have a 20-percentage-point turnout edge so far based on early and absentee voting in Clark County (home to Las Vegas), Nevada. And they have a 10-point edge in Washoe County (home to Reno).
The article does go on to note that in Nevada early voting favors Democrats, however. The thing is that Realclear Politics still has Nevada as a "tossup" state, but it's actually difficult to find a Trump supporter in Las Vegas, and the Las Vegas area has most of the population of the entire state.

But Nevada is a small state in in population and is unlikely to swing all but the closest elections. The rest of the article details more important bad news for Trump and the article title notes the high probability Trump is depress GOP voter turnout everywhere. Bypassing the bullet points for the save of post brevity, I skip to the main point:

Quote
The nightmare scenario for the GOP is that high-information Republican voters, seeing Trump imploding and not necessarily having been happy with him as their nominee in the first place, feel free to cast a protest vote at the top of the ticket. Meanwhile, lower-information Republican voters don’t turn out at all, given that Trump’s rigging rhetoric could suppress their vote and that Republicans don’t have the field operation to pull them back in. That’s how you could get a Clinton landslide like the one the ABC News poll describes, along with a Democratic Senate and possibly even — although it’s a reach — a Democratic House.

I don't actually see the Democrats taking the House this time, but there is a decent chance of at least an even split Senate.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-24, 03:37:03
Democracy by constant polling… Do you mean, Sang, that votes are not just cast but are already being counted, and the counts released"officially"? :) (You know that you don't…) That's how Kerry almost won in 2004: The major networks touted "exit polls" and then, when the official tallies came in, were aghast! :)

Nate is pretty savvy. He says, "One needs to be careful about drawing too many inferences from early-voting data. There are a lot of states to look at and a lot of ways to run the numbers, and we’ve seen smart analysts trick themselves into drawing conclusions that didn’t necessarily hold up well by Election Day."
Two things to note, Sang:
I don't consider you a "smart analyst"; you're a partisan…first and foremost!
And your prejudices and predilections don't allow you to be careful with your predictions.

I'll still wait for November 9th (…perhaps somewhat later :) ) to see what actually happened.

p.s.: How do you confuse the keyboard's letters "k" and "v"…? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-24, 05:41:04
p.s., Sang:
Don't you wish you'd voted for Lessig? :)
Quote
Lessig announced the launch of his presidential campaign on September 6, 2015. On August 11, 2015, Lessig announced that he had launched an exploratory campaign for the purpose of exploring his prospects of winning the Democratic Party's nomination for President of the United States in the 2016 election. Lessig pledged to seek the nomination if he raised $1 million by Labor Day 2015. The announcement was widely reported in national media outlets, and was timed to coincide with a media blitz by the Lessig 2016 Campaign. Lessig was interviewed in The New York Times and Bloomberg. Campaign messages and Lessig's electoral finance reform positions were circulated widely on social media. His campaign is focused on a single issue: The Citizen Equality Act, a proposal that couples campaign finance reform with other laws aimed at curbing gerrymandering and ensuring voting access. As an expression of his commitment to establishing citizen equality first, Lessig has said he will resign once the Citizen Equality Act becomes law and turn the presidency over to his vice president, who would then serve as a typical president pursuing legislation on a variety of issues. In October 2015, Lessig abandoned his automatic resignation plan and adopted a full policy platform for the presidency, while retaining the passage of the Citizen Equality Act as his legislative priority.
He announced the end of his campaign on November 2, 2015.
A typical Democrat, without the backing of the Clinton Machine… :)

BTW: When I say "a typical Democrat, " I mean those silly gooses who aren't connected to the Clinton Machine… (O-black-ama had his eight years and he knows it's time to step down… It's time for the "real" Democrats to come back!)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-25, 00:38:27
you make a typical Yank midnight raccoon and the propaganda soaks into you with no bother like it does for millions.  There are large numbers losing homes, people who cannot afford health care and well over that 40 million on food stamps. It is so easy to slag you country off because it is so big-headed. The greatest democracy in the world nonsense stuff and creating wars all the time when there are more pressing things at home. Not once has anyone here lie you been able to deal with the large and glaring hypocrisies in your own country and it's history. Instead you have to fall back like the other odd person to sniping and sneering at me. None of that answers anything listed time after time because you lot cannot do so and damn well know it.

$100 will prove points.   :(  :coffee:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-25, 01:18:44
The greatest democracy in the world nonsense stuff and creating wars all the time
Of course, those little squabbles like World War One and World War Two (just to pick out the largest in the 20th century) don't count! Nor the various colonial wars… :)
You carp on that "greatest democracy" line because you are easily led by propaganda. You cite numbers, knowing full well your country does worse; and you ignore improvements in our stats…
What is your point, RJ? I mean, other than that you have some secret grudge against the U.S.?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-25, 02:05:51
Nate is pretty savvy. He says, "One needs to be careful about drawing too many inferences from early-voting data. There are a lot of states to look at and a lot of ways to run the numbers, and we've seen smart analysts trick themselves into drawing conclusions that didn't necessarily hold up well by Election Day."
Two things to note, Sang:
I don't consider you a "smart analyst"
I said "early voting favors Democrats" , which is a simplification of what Nate said. You always seem to forget which of us studied and applied this type of research which a great deal of success.
And your prejudices and predilections don't allow you to be careful with your predictions.
Too bad my predications are almost always right

The major networks touted "exit polls" and then, when the official tallies came in, were aghast!  :)
Why is that you're so partisan that you confuse exit polls with votes already cast and counted? Of course, those numbers cited above don't mean Hillary will win Nevada by those margins but it does show things don't look too good for him here.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-25, 02:17:45
There are large numbers losing homes,
Do the math, Howie. We're talking less than 0.16 percent. In a large country, the absolute numbers might be "large" but doesn't show a crises.
people who cannot afford health care
Under the ACA the numbers are improving.

creating wars all the time
Wikipedia has a list of wars involving the UK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_involving_the_United_Kingdom) What a bunch of warmongers. First, Second and Third Cod Wars? Really?  Did you need fish that badly? The wars you accuse the US of also involved the UK.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-25, 02:18:50
Why is that you're so partisan that you confuse exit polls with votes already cast and counted?
Do you mean to say that the actual tally of early voting has already been officially stated? :) You're not that naive. (Or are you?)
That's the job of the partisan media. State election officials are proscribed from doing it by law… (You've sort-of maybe heard of "law"? That's the rules, that somehow don't apply to Democrats. :) Ask Hillary…)
You always seem to forget which of us studied and applied this type of research which a great deal of success.
You only had to please your instructors; I had to square my results with reality… :) (BTW: "which a great deal of success" means — what?)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-25, 04:53:06
Do you mean to say that the actual tally of early voting has already been officially stated?
Because those Democratic ballots returned are votes for Trump? Give me a break. Are in denial that Trump is going to lose this thing? Channel 13 has a running Blog of the early voting (http://www.ktnv.com/news/ralston/the-nevada-early-voting-blog):

Quote
Totals after all ballots tallied in ClarK (county):

EV+AB: 85,662

Dems: 44,227

GOP: 25,440

Rest: 15,985

I can assure those Dems are not voting for Trump.  It would take a quantum, or even Trumpian leap of illogic to not connect those to votes for Clinton. The X factor is is the "Rest" category, but even if every one of them votes Trump, Clinton would still be leading by a large margin.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-25, 05:00:22
Ooops, it appears Trump is lying to his donors that Art of the Deal is out of print to solicit donations. (https://newrepublic.com/minutes/135769/donald-trump-saying-successful-book-print-isnt)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-25, 05:07:46
You're really reaching, Sang… How many signed copies do you have? :)
(BTW: I'd pay maybe 50¢ for one! But I'm a spendthrift…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-25, 07:42:19
You're really reaching, Sang... How many signed copies do you have?
Reaching? Is the book in print or out of print. Given that book is in print, this appears to be a lie.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-10-25, 14:14:56
Conservative/Right Wing media personality Glenn Beck had a lot to say about Trump

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/12/us/politics/glenn-beck-says-opposing-trump-is-moral-ethical-even-if-it-means-clinton-wins.html

Quote
“It is not acceptable to ask a moral, dignified man to cast his vote to help elect an immoral man who is absent decency or dignity,” Mr. Beck wrote on Facebook. “If the consequence of standing against Trump and for principles is indeed the election of Hillary Clinton, so be it. At least it is a moral, ethical choice.”


Quote
“If one helps to elect an immoral man to the highest office, then one is merely validating his immorality, lewdness, and depravity,”

He noted that it has crossed his mind to vote for Hillary, be he'll vote for Darrell Castle of the Constitution Party. That article was on Oct 11.

Now he elaborated on on The Blaze, noting that Trump is a sociopath.

(http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/10/24/glenn-beck-explains-why-he-thinks-donald-trump-is-a-sociopath/)
Quote
Have you seen him during the last year and a half truly feel for someone that couldn’t help him? Truly connect on a human level,” Beck told PBS host Charlie Rose, who asked the commentator for an indication that Trump could be a sociopath. ”[A] sociopath is somebody who doesn’t really see the human experience in anyone else, and I haven’t see that in him. I haven’t seen him deeply affected by the human condition in an individual.
The article goes on to state that Beck said Trump was a "narcissistic psychopath."





Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-25, 21:03:38
I can assure those Dems are not voting for Trump.
:) You base your "assurances" on -what!- mind-control? (Reminds me of the New York Democrat who couldn't understand how Nixon won in '68 because, as she said, no one she knew voted for him!)

It is interesting that you're willing to quote Glen Beck… I'm surprised that he's become a psychologist; I'd thought he was just keeping busy, awaiting the Rapture!
Quote
This is not the first time the controversial personality has attacked Trump in such a manner. Earlier this year, Beck blasted Trump, calling him a “narcissistic psychopath,” adding that four years of a Trump presidency “will lead to civil war.”
Civil war? Beck seems committed to Armageddon, come what may…
But you'll take his counsel? One wonders why…

Relax. The election is only two weeks away.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-26, 00:52:25
And thank heavens it will only be two weeks away and we will get a damn break from a big sad laugh of an election. Bad enough the tv swamped by ex-colonial stuff without this farce with 2 candidates who are the most outstanding for decades but neither in a positive way. One is a free lancer and the other a control freak. However I do feel for you people over there as an old Glasgow friend of mine has been living in California for decades with husband and family born and raised there. She is groaning about it but one of her sons intends to emigrate to Scotland  so she can feel happy! :up:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-26, 02:49:39
Bad enough the tv swamped by ex-colonial stuff
Too bad your lot can't focus on your own problems, eh? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-26, 06:38:22
Following Sang's recent example, I post again:

From a HuffPo article (http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/hillary-clinton-policy-agenda/):
Quote
Progressives are also laser-focused on executive branch appointments and staffing. As Warren put it to a gathering at the Center for American Progress in mid-September, “personnel is policy.”
This is not hyperbole: This is how the Dems have always operated…
And reason enough to defeat Hillary Clinton.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-10-26, 07:01:22
A little pander,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8flfOeWMPQ
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-26, 07:35:31
Good one, jax! This is the level the left in America operates on… And they get away with it! :)

BTW: The last paragraph of the piece is
Quote
“Realistically what the secretary has to try to do if she is elected is to generate some momentum—to do enough so people don’t believe Washington is just completely broken and nothing is ever going to happen,” one confidant told me. “Give enough relief to families and communities so they think, ‘OK, it’s not all great but it’s headed in the right direction.’ I think that is achievable.”
Does that tell you anything…? :)

Bread and circuses, anyone? :(
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-26, 10:28:34
Bread and circuses, anyone? :(
As opposed to Trump - just circus.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-26, 13:56:39
You're entitled to feel that way, ersi. It's not your country…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-26, 21:13:43
I see no option but to the US to turn part of Canada.
That way, all problems would be solved and no need for such ridiculous candidates and elections.
Civilization would finally cover the entire North America.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-27, 01:10:36
You really have a passing nerve Oakdale on passing problems when it comes to tens of millions in your own corner.

Safe $100
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-27, 04:23:49
Physician, heal thyself!

For an interesting take on America's current path (provided you don't consider despair a sin…) see Fred on Everything (http://fredoneverything.org/ready-ronald-mcdonald-or-lucretia-borgia-in-the-long-run-we-are-all-dead/)!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Macallan on 2016-10-27, 13:05:45
I see no option but to the US to turn part of Canada.
That way, all problems would be solved and no need for such ridiculous candidates and elections.
Civilization would finally cover the entire North America.
So we're back at the United States Of Canada vs. Jesusland map? You'd probably have to throw Alberta to Jesusland though, remember the guy they had as prime minister before Trudeau?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-27, 21:34:23
How can a country that claims so much end up with en election like it has? Two people who contentious in different ways? Shows depth to a problem.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-28, 15:59:41
Former Miss Finland becomes 12th woman to accuse Trump of sexual assault (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/27/former-miss-finland-becomes-12th-woman-to-accuse-trump-of-sexual/)
Quote
A former Miss Finland has become the twelfth woman to come forward and accuse Donald Trump of sexual assault, with two weeks to go until the US election.
What? Still two weeks to go?!!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-10-28, 17:13:49
Next one yes. There will probably be more. (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=2472.0)

(http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-37756189)
US elections: Africans chuckle at ugly US election (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-37756189)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-29, 00:42:49
Another woman eh. Fools cannot always be controlled and I am not swallowing the farce that has become.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-29, 05:40:35
How does she know it wasn't Dave…? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-29, 11:09:43
Bah, what's a Miss contest for?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-10-29, 12:14:54
Based on this photo she's in trouble.
(https://rainbowapi-a.wpdigital.net/rainbow-data-service/rainbow/image-data.is?url=http://tabletimages.washingtonpost.com/prod/1029_clintonemails_b_tstmp_1477697479.jpg&height=580&width=580&webp=false)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-10-30, 01:08:24
what's a Miss contest for?
Unmarried women!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-30, 05:49:14
What a farce this election over there is!

Clinton savaged Trump over the allegations but now she thinks she is above getting slapped? In a more general state the trailing round with often immature and childish attitudes by the candidates  does the country no publicity favours at all. Both are into slagging each other and main important issues to large numbers of Americans actually get ignored. The whole way of doing things over there has a smattering of kindergarten attitudes by too many. Now there is only 3% between the 2 jokers. Many will vote for Clinton even thought they are suspicious of her and at the same time equally large numbers are voting for Trump as they do not feel the system is working for too many of them.  This is one of the worst elections there for an awful long time and whoever wins the disgruntlement will linger on. meanwhile i will stick to real comic shows rather than this debacle and I feel sorry for the country.

my $100 dollars are safe.  :happy:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-30, 10:06:35
I entirely agree with Rjhowie's post.
There's no one in the USA with the moral authority to tell those two to behave properly??

It's not their reputation to be at stake, is the reputation and credibility of an entire Nation that has been ridiculed by such candidates.
Put them both in jail.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-31, 03:54:02
Thanks and you are so right Belfrager. What a head shaking country that boasts about so much but practices much that has no semblance to the claimed 'principles.' It is in a mess and the election simply portrays that. My $100 dollars will be safe for a long time and the ex-colonists her known that but always body-swerve the obvious hypocrisy attitude. It is also as I have leaned to one of the worst Presidential Elections over there for a long time and epitomises the farce. They have flags all over the damn place and almost fanatical nationalists and it would be better if they just hid behind them and gave us all  peace.. Whoever wins the farce that is supposed to be an election the place will only continue to get worse and so will their interference in the world. I don't even think that Obama was some great guy and years fro now people will say "who?" He did sod all for the millions suffering in the place as well as killing more people than GW did elsewhere when he was in the White House.

What a pantomime.

Safe $100
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-01, 11:14:12
Electoral polls. I find it a menace to democracy and don't comprehend why polls are allowed.
Polls gives to voters a false perspective of anticipating false realities and therefore to manipulate voter's freedom of expressing their opinion.

According polls Trump was back, now he's not, now he goes back, now he match Hillary, now he wins important states...
Basically polls depends on the candidate's payment or even more obscure interests.

In the American system, where voters votes in different days (with the influence of different polls), this is even more absurd.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-01, 21:32:33
Clinton savaged Trump over the allegations but now she thinks she is above getting slapped?
This specific case is ridiculous. First was "pertinent." Then turned out the emails weren't even on Hillary's devices or servers. Then we got some vague nonsense about Weiner, raising the specter of his sexting scandals. Then it turns out that Director Comey didn't even see the stupid emails. Ooops now it was a former Clinton aid. Now is it surprising at all that Clinton's aid would receive the same emails that were already on Clinton's server?

Granted, there is the slim possibility that some of the deleted emails might turn up, but if Clinton actually deleted the emails from her server (as opposed to merely her inbox) they'll still be missing.

BTW, Trump needs to be savaged. He's a thin-skinned, narcissistic tyrant in the making. Think Hillary is "corporate" and "war mongering?" Wait 'till you get a load of him (Joker reference intended)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-11-02, 01:51:34
  :lol:
"See, there were these two guys in a lunatic asylum... And one night, one night they decide they don't like living in an asylum any more. They decide they're going to escape! So, like, they get up onto the roof, and there, just across this narrow gap, they see the rooftops of the town, stretching away in the moon light... stretching away to freedom. Now, the first guy, he jumps right across with no problem. But his friend, his friend did not dare make the leap. Y'see... Y'see, he's afraid of falling. So then, the first guy has an idea... He says 'Hey! I have my flashlight with me! I'll shine it across the gap between the buildings. You can walk along the beam and join me!' B-but the second guy just shakes his head. He suh-says... He says 'Wh-what do you think I am? Crazy? You'd turn it off when I was half way across!'"

-The Joker, The Killing Joke (http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Batman:_The_Killing_Joke)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fbatman%2Fimages%2F5%2F53%2FJokerkillingjoke.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20090102144048&hash=f789ba96b53cb78529e1a238fb30cb21" rel="cached" data-hash="f789ba96b53cb78529e1a238fb30cb21" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/batman/images/5/53/Jokerkillingjoke.png/revision/latest?cb=20090102144048)

 :sherlock: Strangely on topic.  :right: 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-02, 12:11:44
BTW, Trump needs to be savaged. He's a thin-skinned, narcissistic tyrant in the making. Think Hillary is "corporate" and "war mongering?" Wait 'till you get a load of him (Joker reference intended)
I won't get many votes, but I'm more popular than Trump or Clinton.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent-img.newsinc.com%2Fjpg%2F838%2F31415775%2F43871824.jpg%3Ft%3D1474389420&hash=f2d3c84f846b54851bbedf22b965b781" rel="cached" data-hash="f2d3c84f846b54851bbedf22b965b781" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://content-img.newsinc.com/jpg/838/31415775/43871824.jpg?t=1474389420)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-02, 15:30:04
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14900423_10157727935440008_6629675604919704996_n.jpg?oh=ed18abd0178fc0e628f05d8a427aaff0&oe=588E7007)

Historically black Hopewell Missionary Baptist Church in Greeneville, Mississippi was burned and the words "Vote Trump" were spray painted on the remains of the building this morning. Yes, there are indeed "deplorables" among Trump supporters and always have been. In the tradition of "radical Islamic terrorism", shouldn't this be called "Radical Republican Terrorism?" :left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-02, 22:04:28
KKK's Crusader supports the Donald. Even KKK has to lower their standards...
Typical of anglo saxon protestant supremacists, aka bunch of idiots.

These elections are a blessing to the world to watch the decadence of an empty empire, the end of a fraud. Sociological anthropology at it's best.
Problem being there's nothing to offer in alternative, the triumph of modernism portrayed as a Bruguel's nightmare painting with a twist of Hollywood.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-03, 00:26:42
If a few Communist parties applaud Pope Francis, should he step down…? :)
(How's that re-secting between the Orthodox and Roman church going, BTW?)

I like the new "allegations":
Quote
An anonymous “Jane Doe” filed a federal lawsuit against GOP presumptive nominee Donald Trump last week, accusing him of raping her in 1994 when she was thirteen years old. The mainstream media ignored the filing.

If the Bill Cosby case has taught us anything, it is to not disregard rape cases against famous men. Serious journalists have publicly apologized for turning a blind eye to the Cosby accusers for over a decade, notwithstanding the large number of women who had come forward with credible claims. And now history is repeating itself.
(read the rest (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-bloom/why-the-new-child-rape-ca_b_10619944.html) — it's a hoot!)
I specially like the argument by assertion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion) aspect — a perennial favorite of Democrats! :)

Pay close attention to the last line of the HuffPo piece: "We ignore the voices of women at our peril"!
As Secretary Clinton said, not too long ago: "At this point, what difference does it make?" (BTW: Do we know of anyone else who was a "bud" of Epstein, besides his "employee" Tiffany Doe? Sure we do… :( )

Similarly, any obvious "crazy" who agrees with you -about anything!- taints you…? What if a so-called "White Supremacist" failed to reject the Law of Gravity? Would you think you could fly? :)

You don't like Trump. I don't like Trump. But my reasons for not liking Clinton are more important to my country's future…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-03, 01:52:32
I wouldn't gloat if I were you Belfrager as it shows you know damn all about the KKK lunatic bunch. It is tiny and going nowhere. rather hypocritical when one considers th majority of the 3rd Reich leadership came from your religion as did Mussolini, Franco and Salazar in your long dictatorship. Your Papacy provided false passports for lots of Nazis, SS murderers and so on to flee to South America so no lessons please!

On America the place is in one hell of a place politically. many of the people who are at the bottom in the basic working class are outcasts and many will vote for Donald Trump because they no longer feel they are  of any consequence in the country or what passes for a political reality;  Very limited parliamentary democracy and control by really 2 corporate parties and certainly not a multi-party country. He is not a routine politician and that fact reaches out to millions of the lesser off or ignored as the system has been lousy for ages. On Hillary Clinton for all her cleverness and experience that does not mean she is automatically treated as wonderful.There are real problems with the Clinton Foundation the two different email matters and that many would-be progressive Americans are not only suspicious of her but just simply don't trust her. All of those who are thinkers have to be more thoughtful instead of just coming out and raving. The hard truth is that this is the worst election for decades and when it is over the road will not be clear and there will be more political upheaval. Glad I don't live there but my potential charity donation remains safe whatever happens.

($100 :up: )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-03, 02:16:36
Very limited parliamentary democracy
I don't know why you find it so hard to understand that we don't have a "parliamentary" system, having rejected such by that written and explicit document known as the Constitution of the United States… You've never understood the doctrine of Separation of Powers.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-03, 14:10:23
But my reasons for not liking Clinton are more important to my country's future...
The White Supremacists, Neonazi's, the Klan, etc have always been in Trump's corner. Let's  face it, it might not amount to half, but there are quit a few "deplorables" for him. This is why to not vote Trump, not that in California it will make much of a difference - for the future. Nothing Hillary would do will be that awful. She'll raise taxes on the rich, which was quit successful during the terms of Bill in creating a budget surplus and economic growth. Oh the SCOTUS, as if Roe V Wade and same-sex marriage and other things bogeymen of the the Right will actually be overturned, breaking multiple precedents. There's nothing Hillary will do to jeopardize the future. I sincerely have no idea where you get this notion.

A presidency of Trump will help legitimize the fore-mentioned groups and I wouldn't be surprised to find some filling vacancies in high offices - if Trump knows who and what he's appointing. That's right. I fear the rise of the so-called Alt-Right under Trump, even if the man himself has nothing to do with it. Then there's the issues that he seems to know nothing of economic policy or economics in general, foreign policy*, the constitution... If you care about the future, Trump is not your man.

*the lunatic actually wants nuclear proliferation. Both Democrats and Republicans know what a bad idea this is.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-03, 14:29:24
The White Supremacists, Neonazi's, the Klan, etc have always been in Trump's corner.
Yes, but aren't they actually doing a favor to you by appearing loud and clear supporting Trump "officially", the very moment Clinton faces some difficulties? no wonder Trump to run from them as the devil from the cross... :whistle:

Either they are very dumb or very smart.... probably the first option.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-11-03, 18:49:47
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pixhoster.info%2Ff%2F2016-11%2Fc542b54a8596402299023bc2efd7158b.jpg&hash=b613e27b6a4ec7f00db629eaf7c47559" rel="cached" data-hash="b613e27b6a4ec7f00db629eaf7c47559" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.pixhoster.info/f/2016-11/c542b54a8596402299023bc2efd7158b.jpg)

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij8PH9nDT-o[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-03, 21:52:05
The White Supremacists, Neonazi's, the Klan, etc have always been in Trump's corner.
By "always" you must mean "since the Democrats lost the south to Richard Nixon"! :) What a short memory you have, Sang… Robert Byrd, anyone?
Nah! Reality is just a bugaboo used by conservatives scare progressives. History is merely a malleable collection of myths, to be shaped to fit the needs of our rulers.
Carry on, comrade!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-03, 22:11:23
What a short memory you have, Sang... Robert Byrd, anyone?
What a short memory the GOP collectively has. Byrd himself renounced the Klan and nearly all the racist dixiecrats became Republicans so stop with your strawmen. But it isn't even about racism. It's about the prospect of literal fascists in government and all that it entails, not just the racism. You just don't get it. This about saving the free republic, and not becoming a at least a proto-fascist state under Trump (again, the he might not even do on purpose, but out of ignorance and incompetence.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-03, 22:27:43
Sang, you're okay with jettisoning separation of powers and insisting on a "living" constitution — you've argued for fascist government from the git-go! :) You just aren't (intellectually) honest enough to admit it…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-04, 03:20:40
Talking about the supremacists, KKK and the other nutjobs is scratching at desperation midnight. They don't amount to a damn hill of beans so midnight try and refrain from dinging your stressed intelligence! This election is the worst you lot have had for years and neither is that outstanding. One a non-politician and not part of the inbuilt mob on the Hill and is where he is because the system is letting down so many people. The other although intelligent and very clever is a lying, scheming and dishonest. Maybe you folks have to wonder how you have got to a state where there has been so much dis-satisfaction from so many people on both candidates.

We don't know what will happen with a non-politician in the chair and the mess-ups have led to the possibility. The other is a woman who is confrontational in the world and will also be in a pickle with 2 Houses against her. You would find this hard to produce in a normal place. Do i laugh my head off not i damn well don't because I have 2 very good friends living in the South and West of the country but there are far too many Americans who have just been totally ignored by the political class leaders and many of the suffering are getting fed up with a machinery that fails so many of them. You need a massive change and a multi-party machinery with less impeiralism and more concern for internal failings that will I suspect get worse.

Safe $100
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-11-04, 10:36:38
You'd better postpone the elections and redo the whole thing.
(Maybe it could be called a preventive impeachment.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-11-04, 12:15:15
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij8PH9nDT-o[/video]

Are American media this stupid? No need to answer, this is a rhetorical question. (Of course, this is a YouTube cherry pick, presumably they have their moments of lucidity not in this clip.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-11-04, 12:54:07
Of course, this is a YouTube cherry pick, presumably they have their moments of lucidity not in this clip.
In this one perhaps? ;)

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at2iwcQNNlY[/video]

1.) Do you buy the plea that she didn't know that many of the emails were top secret since they weren't marked as such? ;)
Keep in mind that her private server became part of an unclassified system.
2.) What do you think was the reason for her to put up a private server? ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-11-04, 16:10:02
1. I wouldn't hire her as a sysadmin.
2. Skirting FOIA, which I take a dim view of from a transparency standpoint. In that regard she's like most other politicians. Privacy for me, not the others. It's a demerit.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-04, 18:21:25
I wouldn't hire her as a sysadmin.
How about...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xsqNbSs7lK2yeA/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-05, 03:25:29
Now that report on Clinton re the interview is  shocking and there was no need for her to go bananas as in her position she has answers to give. maybe jimbro you could voice an opinion on that addition on the forum p-lease? She is a control freak and it is no small wonder so many Americans do not trust her and it almost makes you wonder why she would be like a Joan of Arc against Trump.  Certainly Trump has no political experience as such but an opposition figure who many Americans with grey cells despise makes it all head shaking. It is on thing mawking him but when it is considered how she uses her political experience in a devious and often dishonest way what hope is there for the country with her?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-05, 08:51:59
[…] what hope is there for the country with her?
The hope is that we'll become more "European"… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-05, 15:06:20
Talking about the supremacists, KKK and the other nutjobs is scratching at desperation midnight.
Nope. Trump is the favorite of Storm Front and other sites favored those groups. It's not a stretch for one of the to ingratiate himself to Trump and find a position in his presidency at all.  You're still not understanding just horrible his presidency will be. Maybe The first 100 horrific days of a Trump presidency (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-first-100-horrific-days-of-a-trump-presidency/2016/11/04/1abca4d2-a286-11e6-a44d-cc2898cfab06_story.html) will help, fascists in government aside.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-05, 15:22:18
you've argued for fascist government from the git-go!
Let me know when you want to stop making up crap :yes:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-05, 21:40:29
The hope is that we'll become more "European"...  :)
You'll never will. No capacity.
Vote Trump, so we can laugh for a good, long, moment.
Poor Trump, if he's elected I can't imagine the ridiculous he will suffer all over the world. At the same level than the North Korean "adorable leader".

The problem is not Trump, but the Killary woman.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-05, 22:34:27
You'll never will. No capacity.
Out-grew it in 1776. But since, say, 1910 we've been trying to regain it -- much to our detriment.
Let me know when you want to stop making up crap  :yes:
I know what you mean... That's why you shouldn't use words the meaning of which you don't know! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-11-05, 23:33:47
[…] what hope is there for the country with her?
The hope is that we'll become more "European"… :)
Any chance for WWIII ?  :right:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-06, 00:37:02
Oh, sure, krake! Look on the bright side… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-11-06, 01:07:07
Let me know when you want to stop making up crap  :yes:

Think he confused you with Trump for a second...  :doh:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-06, 03:31:40
You are still being rather silly midnight now stretching to fascists and daft stuff. How many do they have in office either, eh?? Going over the score or are you telling me that now the race is almost neck and neck that half the voters are fascist because they support Trump? Explain that as well. An awful lot of Americans are fed up with the Hill the corruption and that so many of them are going nowhere. We all know that trump has no political experience but the people you have had to put up with for ages make a nonsense out of it and although as I have said she is clever she is taken up with naked ambition and will come out with anything in desperation. Why isn't she miles ahead of Trump then? She is in with the establishment adopts one attitude with the corporates when sooking in with them in private speeches and con the people on platforms. I also forecast she will be a big danger to the world's safety and you might all be better buying steel helmets.

On a more wider political note the system stinks and is why so many people are sick to death of it and the bottom working class people haven't a hope in hell of getting anywhere. What passes for a political conference is a head-shaking nonsense. more like a bunch of brained children shouting and cheering waving daft cards. Makes people look like infantiles.  Even the "debates" between candidates was another head shaking groan. The same in these cross country travels. More about slagging and war cry stuff and not very mature or adult game shows. The country needs an adult and proper political enterprise. Many over there condemn Trump for political inexperience and can in principle understand that but Clinton is no Joan of Arc she is clever, dangerous and if elected be a negative in the country and a danger anywhere else. If this is all you can produce it is time you faced the truth that you DO have a political problem and an awful lot of people are sick to death at the hypocrisy.

Safe $100
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-06, 04:10:56
If this is all you can produce […]
I was a Cruz supporter from the git-go. I expect him to win in '20 — or '24 (… one of the advantages of being young!).

Sang just toes the party line, RJ. Trump is, to him, Hitler — because he's been told that repeatedly.
Is Trump ignorant, bombastic and thin-skinned? Yup! But he's the only other horse in the race…

BTW: How's your "wide democracy" going, given that an inferior court has all-but overturned the Brexit referendum? What do you see happening, since the Government has appealed?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-06, 15:05:00
Why isn't she miles ahead of Trump then?
In fact, she might be. In early voting, she's trouncing Trump. There are indications the polls understated her level of support versus Trump. I said so earlier, with the pollsters missing a lot of younger voters and Latinos. You should have heard Trump complain that the early voting stations had to extend their hours to accommodate the lines of people waiting to vote and the people waiting turned out to be Democrats (and a surge of Latinos showing up to vote against Trump.) We'll know for sure on Tuesday night. but Clinton could win by larger margins than expected.
Sang just toes the party line, RJ. Trump is, to him, Hitler -- because he's been told that repeatedly.
Who are the Alt-Righters voting for? :confused: I remember now :yes: Trump. This is an objective fact, not some party line.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-06, 19:35:57
Interesting your thoughts on polls and that stance of yours is not widely followed and we just do not know.  I have not investigated because I am fortunate enough not to live over there but is it the fact that once a party gets the highest number of college positions they automatically get the whole State?  There are also polls showing only 1% ahead for Hilary Clinton and a couple of events where Donald Trump is. However if Clinton does win the Trump side will still have had a rather massive support from an awful lot of Americans who are fed up with the system and the Hill. She is so taken with her almost fanatical drive and all that constant circus platform stuff is as boring as hell. Little in the wayy of policy from both but for all her years just as bad. There will be many voting for her as the lesser of two evils which says little too does it not? The millions who are suffering over here will see no damn difference from someone who should be acting better than she is. She is paid by the corporate club and cannot be denies and saying one thing to them in private big money speeches and something else on the circus platforms. .

Safe $100 in four years.......
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-07, 17:49:14
The millions who are suffering over here will see no damn difference from someone who should be acting better than she is.
In fact, there is. Contrary to what you believe, Hillary does have coherent economic policy, among policies in other areas. But this election has shifted away from policy debate to keeping an insane moron away from the presidency. How it will make a difference to poor is that economists seem to be in agreement on what Trump's few, and vaguely stated policies will do. That is to plunge the country straight into recession. Trade war with China? 35% tariff on Mexican imports, which will not automagically cause a new factory to spring up in Ohio or some other "rustbelt" state but will cause in increase in consumer prices, thus reducing spending and the end result is recession and the newly unemployed being thrown into poverty. There's no telling what economic havoc his China policy will cause, but it will dwarf the damage done by his Mexican one. On domestic economic policy, Trump has the same "trickle down" economics that increases the deficit every time and the money never trickles from the rich to the middle and lower classes.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-07, 22:17:20
Trump lost. I'm better than any poll blog/site. Guaranteed or you can have your money back.

If these elections were like this, just imagine the next ones...

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-08, 02:33:31
It is all very well saying that as a stance midnight but she is generally in the same trad as Obama. And his legacy? Almost sod all. The tens of millions of poor under Obama's two sessions will continue under her. She is a hawk on global matters and so very tied up by the corporates, Saudia Arabia and Quatar who helped finance her backing. time after time sensible interviewed over there including in the street have not liked Clinton nor completely trusted her but said they would proably vote for her as they think Trump is a question mark. It is as i say the old stuff of the lesser of two evils. Third parties have no chance over there as the money me are not going to support them. A while back I also said that the Democrats via Obama got a bigger corporate income at the previous Presidential circus than the Republicans did! The USA actually needs a wider system than it is stuck with hence so many people and not just vague folk have went for Trump's side because of the way things are run in DC. Will Clinton be a positive contributor in the world? no she won't and those hundreds of bases via the "corporate democracy" still be there. She will be confrontational. Internally will there be any even noticeable decrease in the 43 million on food stamps? No. Will her and the opposition run Hill be palsy-walsy? Nope.

unfortunately you do have a deep and propound challenge and a wider idea on party democracy and the big money controls which have got Trump where he is and emphasises the need for a wide revolution in the system. Just a pity anpot sanders but he wasn't in the corporate pockets like Clinton. Basically a friendly and generally a decent and friendly people but naive when it comes to democracy and proper fairness and principle.

Safe $100
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-08, 09:04:29
This is for Howie: Conrad Black's take (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/conrad-black-what-a-spectacle-this-election-has-been) on American elections, specially this one!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-08, 18:40:22
Does this guy need to cheat even when voting? Doesn't he know how to write his own name?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcbsnews1.cbsistatic.com%2Fhub%2Fi%2Fr%2F2016%2F11%2F08%2Fbf23c921-7aa6-4c9c-aeeb-c3c718f78936%2Fresize%2F620x%2F645bb8a7fe118fb0d0028a2c8e952fcc%2F2016-11-08t173420z-787788300-d1beulrpgmaa-rtrmadp-3-usa-election-trump.jpg&hash=6b84312066e6ddaea3f1ff6146a87616" rel="cached" data-hash="6b84312066e6ddaea3f1ff6146a87616" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/11/08/bf23c921-7aa6-4c9c-aeeb-c3c718f78936/resize/620x/645bb8a7fe118fb0d0028a2c8e952fcc/2016-11-08t173420z-787788300-d1beulrpgmaa-rtrmadp-3-usa-election-trump.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-08, 21:54:50
Does this guy need to cheat
Hey, dude: He's not cheating! The three top buttons of her blouse are open… What's a guy supposed to do? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-08, 22:36:20
Grab her by the....?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-09, 01:10:28
Well unfortunately Oaky you got it wrong because of you look at his eyes he is not in the right angle for the blouse dear man.

I will be glad when the whole bleeding mess is over as it is a front on the idea of democracy and decency. it is probably the worst election in America for any time in history. Neither candidate is outstanding and the country will still be in a political mess no matter who wins. In addition Clinton will have the same difficulty as that other waste of time before her namely Obama in that he and the Hlll were opponents and that i submit will continue with her. Trump is more of a populatist in a way and not part of the traditional Republican croner and Clinton is smeaky a liar and not much better than him.

What you need over there is a proper multi-party country not a two party one run by the corporate lot. May i remind that obama got in because he drew more money from the corporate barons than the Reps did that time. Other parties do not get a look in and spending over a billion dollars re the two parties and armies of Americans will still be suffering afterwards. Will she curb the 43 million poor no she damn well won't. Neither candidate is much of a credit and millions over there blasted well know it.  Clinton and trump are no credit to the country nor the political system. Other parties cannot get a look in due to the big money people and the media will shunt them. One surprise on one side was the support that Senator Sanders got in so many States which betrays a problem over there. equally that so many went for trump shows the utter frustration of ordinary souls

Outside of the country all the whooping and hollering the waving of cards kids gatherings called party conventions  are head-shaking. A far wider game is needed and this election has betrayed the hard truth that many, many reasonable Americans are getting sick of the way things are run and go.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-09, 03:34:51
What you need over there is a proper multi-party country
Your ideas about "proper" democracy match your idea of "proper" English, RJ!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-11-09, 06:25:33

Winners are grinners!

(https://i.imgsafe.org/2a46a757fa.jpg)

If you liked Brexit........You'll love 'The Donald'
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/Raccoon.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/koolaid.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/Raccoon.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-09, 06:30:54
Slow down a bit, Smiley: Trump still needs 270 electoral votes… (But it looks like the Republicans have retained control of both the House and the Senate. Good news! …Now if only we had more real Republicans… :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-11-09, 07:17:48
If ya want something you just have to grab it.  :cat:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-09, 07:28:21
Sour grapes, already… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-11-09, 07:36:42
I'll be fine. I fit the demographic.

Have you ever seen a party get kicked out of their venue? Now she's not going to concede? Hilarious.

**Nvm. She made the call.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-09, 07:42:08
Fox News just called the election for Trump…

Now I have to listen to him "graciously" accept! :)

…oops! He had a kid on stage next to him: He really has to come up with a good closer, to obviate the poor kid's anguish and tiredness.
And… He doesn't.
(Okay: I don't understand or accept his inability to notice the kid's discomfort. …I want to take back my vote! :) )

Sure, I'm drunk. But am I wrong?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-09, 08:18:11
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J679NT-ma8[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-09, 08:48:07
His acceptance speech was good. But my criticism remains unanswered… Who the heck was that kid, and why was The Donald so oblivious?
Look out, world!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-09, 09:30:33
Well unfortunately Oaky you got it wrong because of you look at his eyes he is not in the right angle for the blouse dear man.
If you were a man, you'd know how to look…

(BTW: It was a joke! The woman was his wife…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-09, 09:32:26
The wife and I are packing our bags for the move to Canada.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRPGPAnPNa8[/video]
(https://i.redd.it/cr15dxi5q4qx.png)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-09, 09:33:37
Not Mexico!? :) You racist SOB! (Sure, you're okay with black people… But you're still white! And you are moving to one of the "white-est" countries in the world,)
Where would you have moved, if Hillary had won? :) Nigeria?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-09, 09:33:52
@Jimbro3738

Canada: Immigration website crashes as Donald Trump romps home to election victory (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/how-to-move-to-canada-immigration-website-crash-donald-trump-president-a7406106.html)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-09, 09:45:01
Quote
A similar rush for the exit was seen in the UK in the wake of the 2015 general election and this summer's Brexit vote – an issue that the European Union is looking to potentially solve by allowing people to keep their European citizenship.
It's not so surprising, how little of what people cite they actually read… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-11-09, 10:05:32
Shameless.
RJ was right all the time!
(Now I have to re-read all his posts.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-09, 10:08:27
Oh, goodness! I'd thought you wanted to learn English… :)

BTW @ iSang: the polls said something else… Don't you wish your fantasies were closer to reality?

And it will be interesting, to see how Obama handles the transition. I mean, considering what he's already said…
But he's a "progressive" like you. So, he'll — Oops! What now? :)

Of course, you'll be moving to Canada (…not Mexico!). But -seriously- don't you hope a Trump presidency will be successful?
Of course not! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-11-09, 14:33:45
A "successful" Trump presidency is one where he would be prevented from doing too much harm. Will that happen? Who knows, we'll see. But the actions will beget reactions, and while postponed for now, demographics is ruthless. If you had trouble with a conservative candidate like Clinton, you might not like what's coming to you.

I don't think a double-term Trump is impossible, but it would come at the cost of thrice the stress to the Republican party. I am not sure it will survive either case. For the party the best outcome would be a crazier-than-thou Democratic candidate, thus a crazy "Republican" followed by a crazy Democrat, bad for the country, but better for the party. The Republican Trump will not be forgotten easily. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-09, 15:38:46
Of course, you'll be moving to Canada (...not Mexico!).
If the Canadian immigration website stays down too long, I'm sure he will consider Mexico.

But -seriously- don't you hope a Trump presidency will be successful?
Trump's success as the president completely depends on how capably he will be moderated. Foreign policy should be easy - he has none, so the establishment simply has to feed him the standard foreign policy. The hard part will be preventing him to treat the country as if it were his private business ("not paying taxes makes me smart").
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-09, 17:44:48
Now Trump has talked some sensible things, such rebuilding infrastructure. Now I'm going to pull a Howie and note that a panelist on NBC noted that congressional Republicans will block the funds. What if he actually has a sensible plan under all his idiotic rhetoric, Trump's problem could be ultimately turn out to the Republicans, not the Democrats.

But let's assume Trump actually meant all the stupid crap he said this whole, Andrew Sullivan (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/andrew-sullivan-president-trump-and-the-end-of-the-republic.html) notes at least one of the founding fathers saw something like this coming.

Quote from: George Washington via Andrew Sullivan
The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.

...

Quote from: Andrew Sullivan
That was George Washington’s Farewell Address.

A country designed to resist tyranny has now embraced it. A constitution designed to prevent democracy taking over everything has now succumbed to it. A country once defined by self-government has openly, clearly, enthusiastically delivered its fate into the hands of one man to do as he sees fit. After 240 years, an idea that once inspired the world has finally repealed itself. We the people did it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-11-09, 17:57:57
It is an interesting choice, one which both candidates agreed on, and to which there's even a thread (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=334.0).

There are significant differences though (http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/trackers/2016-11-07/u-s-vote-preview-infrastructure-may-win-under-clinton-or-trump).
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-09, 19:41:04
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/trackers/2016-11-07/u-s-vote-preview-infrastructure-may-win-under-clinton-or-trump

Quote
Trump wants to spend $1t on infrastructure relying on private funding, taxes collected from workers; participating companies would offset costs, advisers Peter Navarro and Wilbur Ross said in an Oct. 27 statement
That's not gonna happen and if it did, that looks like a big tax increase on workers. Hillary's USD 275B still expensive, but would been a little more doable.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-11-10, 02:34:14
the count is final ? or pre count ?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-10, 03:05:01
Yup, final!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-11-10, 07:51:46
well, that's interesting .

republican win everything .

presidency, senate and the house .
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-10, 17:15:38
Yup, final!
Making the second time in four presidential elections the Democrats lost, despite winning the popular vote. As I'm sure Oakdale knows, but I'm not sure our European friends do, Hillary actually got more votes than Fuckface Assclown Trump.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-11-10, 17:36:59
Everyone knows. What might not be known is that those who defend it say that electors are what makes the US "a republic, not a democracy" (you probably know how silly I find that mantra). That defense might make sense to in light of the fact that the number of electors remains the same regardless how many people turn out to vote but doesn't seem to have much to do with winner takes all.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-10, 17:53:13
If electors have a meaning, then people's vote is just a joke. If people's vote has a meaning, then electors are pointless.

Electors are probably meant to serve as a statehood-affirming veneer between the population and the federal govt. If such a veneer is deemed really necessary for republicity (that seems to be the idea in the constitution), it's silly to make people vote for the president, as if popular vote counted in some way.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-11-10, 18:03:45
I see no point in 100% of a State supporting the candidate that is supported by 50.01% of its citizens.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-10, 18:17:57
I see no point in 100% of a State supporting the candidate that is supported by 50.01% of its citizens.
Me neither. Only proportional voting is fair (or good old casting a lot or rotation). But US constitution was negotiated between Puritans, Anglicans, and some alleged Masonic deists. Fairness didn't even occur to them.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-10, 19:07:56
"I see no point in 100% of a State supporting the candidate that is supported by 50.01% of its citizens."
What does that mean?

Clinton had more individual votes than Trump did. He won because he had more electoral votes.

Don't ask me...I've only been living here for 80 years.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-10, 21:12:23
Fair? :) We have 50 states and, although federalism has been whittled away at considerably for over a hundred years, the individual states still have distinct interests.
Originally, the main divide was over slavery… (You know how that turned out.)
Nowadays, the main divide is between rural and urban areas.
The electoral college was a compromise meant to keep our union. On December 19th they'll officially conclude the election of our 45th president…
The out-going president, the Democrat contender and the (ostensible) Republican winner seem to be behaving as adults.
Will the general populace?

The electoral college is still contentious, among those whose candidate lost (http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/11/10/hundreds-of-thousands-of-hillary-supporters-sign-petition-to-overturn-election-results/)… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-11, 05:13:37
No the College stuff is a nonsense. Democracy?

Clinton for all her experience got roughly over half the votes and slightly more than Trump. The moans about a non-politician standing and winning were a moan from the democrats but let us look back and remember that President Eisenhower was not a politician either so I see nothing wrong in such a corner. At the same time in power Donald trump will have to take principled note that his side have the Presidency the two Houses so there has to be some consideration given as the country is kind of split down the middle is it not?

I took the view earlier that Trump was more of a kind of populist than a routine Republican and that party did have a problem when you remember the whole squad of contenders and it was non-political experienced trump who won that side. Some people are going on about the email fiasco (even though they were not all checked and couldn't be in the time slot) because lots of people got voting early (odd?) and are being labelled many of them going for Trump because of that investigation. However many stable political minds were not keen on Clinton because for all her experience they did not genuinely trust her . Many would cast her vote because Trump was seen as a question mark.

Donald Trump got much support from those on the lower ranks who are not automatically trolls and have been on the back burner for ages from both Democrats and Republicans so now he will be in power he needs time to show what he can do. The protesters need to go home as the election is over and they lost. Obama's time was not all that perfect and he did have a problem due to the power on the other side on the Hill so now one side technically will be in charge of everything. republicans who didn't support Trump will have to adapt to a populist and see how he fares. On foreign affairs some kind of relationship with Russia is important rather than all the stupid media stuff and made up nonsense. Clinton was unbelievingly stupid going on about foreign influence on voting. The losers have to accept defeat and stop moaning just because they lost.

Both parties which is all you are stuck with over there have to look at themselves and give third new leader a chance and also to get their own houses in order for the millions of Americans who genuinely don't trust DC or what has been going on for too long.

Go to it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-11-11, 12:51:33

"Outside a pub in Clerkenwell, England."

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw7eC_7UQAAT2Nw.jpg) (https://twitter.com/DanielAlpert/status/796818344531939330)

Mission accomplished

https://youtu.be/fwLbDGX4qbk
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-11, 15:39:01
That's a sign of genius! :lol:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-11, 19:03:01
Well the video is in even it's satirical touch a bit of rubbish. A good turnout for the Brexit situ and favoured by sensible British folk.  And the economy has NOT collapsed. Incidents were not as they have been in the ex-colonies. Youngsters from reasonable backgrounds going bananas over losing, looting shops, fighting the police and so on yet they like to bum about the system and democracy? Two hundred and thirty odd years and it still hasn't grown up so what a wise shop keeper ( giggle).  :D
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-12, 04:12:04
Oldsters, too! Harry Reid recently said "The election of Donald Trump has emboldened the forces of hate and bigotry in America."

The "forces of hate and bigotry"? Hereabouts, we just call them Progressives! :)

As far as "real" conservatives go, Borowitz tells us something (http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/queen-offers-to-restore-british-rule-over-united-states)!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-11-12, 05:21:21
i think President trumps goes to election because inspired by the simpson .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SACLVmB_kFg
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-12, 09:32:18
What a damnable far4ce the otcome of that eection has been. People especially younger types out protesting and saying all sorts of immature and  midget mind rubbish.  One news item has informed us that there are people trying to offer counselling to college students and school attenders who have gone bonkers. Oakdale you are always gaffing about other countries being soft in the head, dopey and so on so how about this then, eh?? Demanding the Election College thing be scrapped (didn't see them protesting about that before the election!). Shouting that trump is not their President and a bunch of mentally immature midget brains. Wailing and decrying the country when they were boasting about how democratic things were before the result. Someone should tell all those idiots they had an election and one side wins and the other loses. What makes it more ludicrous it is in cities right across the country and makes the place look stupid. Counsellors for them? What a load of nonsense. Not surprised a wee while back there was a government problem with education standards.

If they are the future you folk have a very deep problem what with mass wailings, cursing and demanding reform because their side lost? The same lot seem to think because they were whooping and waving at the election that makes them A1. For heavens sake they are making the place look stupid and in the report suggesting that counselling nonsense it also mentioned some suggesting they should be cuddled as well. Damnable immaturity and even thought young adults a bunch of mental pansies. It makes the country look a head-shaking groan thing for the watching world. They are not a very good advert and many intelligent people will be sighing in embarrassment. Someone tell them slowly they had a democratic election and they lost - oh and give the poor mental midgets  handkerchiefs.  :mad:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-12, 12:20:33
Very well, now a looong series of gaffes and ridicule will follow until someone (probably many ones) decides that mr Trump is no longer welcome to the US interests. I think it will take last than four years to changes to happen.
I suspect his portrait in the future will be no part of the American President series.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-12, 15:29:17
I think it will take last than four years to changes to happen.
It might depend on the outcome of his trials. I wonder how well the Trump supporters chanting "crooked Hillary" and "lock her up!" actually looked at their man. His legal problems don't go away (http://time.com/4568215/donald-trump-university-lawsuit/), just because he was elected.   The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-impeached-could-he-be-can-us-president-election-stop-a7410756.html) notes that it appears possible for a president to be impeach for issues that arose prior to taking office.

Article II Section IV of the Constitution (http://www.senate.gov/civics/constitution_item/constitution.htm#a2_sec4) states:

Quote
The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Note, it doesn't exactly say that he has to be in office while committing the crimes.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-12, 21:29:59
With all due respect to Prof. Peterson, impeachment is a political action… Anyone salivating for Trump's removal will have to wait for the Democrats to retake the House and Senate.

Referring back to the Electoral College: As I've said elsewhere, the question is simple. It's an American institution — like baseball! So, who wins a baseball game, the team with the most hits or the team with the most runs? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-11-12, 21:36:34
Anyone salivating for Trump's removal will have to wait for the Democrats to retake the House and Senate.

Not necessarily. But if he breaks the GOP's back he's still served my purpose, albeit a little late.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-13, 00:12:54
But if he breaks the GOP's back he's still served my purpose
You have reasons for this animosity toward the GOP?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-13, 03:57:39
The "forces of hate and bigotry"? Hereabouts, we just call them Progressives!
Nope. We're talking about incidents such as ‘Trump! Trump! Trump!’: Group of white men assault black woman student at Villanova University (http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/trump-trump-trump-group-of-white-men-assault-black-woman-student-at-villanova-university/) and numerous other similar ones already since Trump got elected. This other raw story notes 137 (http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/welcome-to-trumps-america-58-reports-of-people-bullied-by-emboldened-bigots-and-the-list-is-growing/). We're beyond the usual liberal/conservative disagreements.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw6NJd8WEAA4eGB.jpg)
Welcome to "unified" Trump's America.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-13, 04:23:25
Anyone salivating for Trump's removal will have to wait for the Democrats to retake the House and Senate.
Are you sure? Again it depends on the outcome of his trials. If they go badly for him, enough Republicans might well join the Democrats to impeach him. He's not much more popular in some Republican circles than he is in Democratic ones. A bad outcome in the trials might give the #nevertrump Republicans the ammo they need.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-13, 04:58:17
On a different note, now Rudy Giuliani confirmed that the FBI had been leaking info to the Trump campaign. More specifically active FBI agents had been leaking to former ones, who in turned leaked it to Trump. Time to let the guilty hang. Figuratively, of course :p
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-13, 06:46:17
We're talking about incidents such as 'Trump! Trump! Trump!': Group of white men assault black woman student at Villanova University (http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/trump-trump-trump-group-of-white-men-assault-black-woman-student-at-villanova-university/)
As Newsweek described the site back in 2005: "Muck, raked: If you're looking for alleged GOP malfeasance, the folks at rawstory.com are frequently scooping the mainstream media.""Muck, raked: If you're looking for alleged GOP malfeasance, the folks at rawstory.com are frequently scooping the mainstream media." (I repeated the quote to meet your standards: It's double-sourced… :) ) So, of course, you take what they say as Gospel!
(Remember Tawana Brawley (http://nypost.com/2013/08/04/pay-up-time-for-brawley-87-rape-hoaxer-finally-shells-out-for-slander/)?! Remember Al Sharpton? :) He's your kinda guy!)
I'm sure you'd never have posted about this (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teens-beats-chicago-man-street-voting-donald-trump-article-1.2867997)… I fear you'll never learn.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-13, 06:52:16
On a different note
Source, please… (If it's rawstory, you can keep it!)

Sang, you do understand that Donald J. Trump is going to be our next president, right? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-13, 07:17:21
Time to let the guilty hang.
You, of course, don't mean that! :)
Quote
Rudy Giuliani said Friday that he knew the FBI planned to review more emails tied to Hillary Clinton before a public announcement about the investigation last week, confirming that the agency leaked information to Donald Trump’s presidential campaign.
He went on to say that friends of his told him so, probably mostly former agents… And he didn't blab. (He did burble, like a Democrat… :) ) But, you say, he knew!! Thought-crime! Democrats want him punished… Hm. Do you? If so, explain why. Please…
Sang, I often don't get your point: Is it that Democrats can be devils but Republicans have to be Angels? That's what it seems like to me…

Ya gotta love the "Impartiality" of the HuffPo: They ended their piece with this
Quote
Editor’s note: Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.
Of course, it was in italics, so who knows what they actually meant to say… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-13, 11:35:11
We'll see Trump's first measures... I doubt such caricatural being to have any coherence between his candidate promises and what he'll do as president.

It's evident that an isolated America will be an America in ruins. Military will tell him that he can't press any button, Industry will tell him that they want slave Mexican labour, Commerce leaders will tell him that he can't add any additional taxes to foreigner products and so on and so on...

Maybe, maybe he can rebuild some infrastructures, but nothing else. Not too much of a change.

As for strategy, for long time that America has no aircraft carriers in the Atlantic, all have been moved to the Pacific. No changes he can do.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-13, 12:01:32
It's evident that an isolated America will be an America in ruins. Military will tell him that he can't press any button, Industry will tell him that they want slave Mexican labour, Commerce leaders will tell him that he can't add any additional taxes to foreigner products and so on and so on...
I'm pretty sure I understand why most of Europe is…where it is.

And, of course, they only want to talk about the U.S.… Their own countries are either not that interesting or too horrible to contemplate…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-13, 15:44:49
Thought-crime! Democrats want him punished..
How in the hell is Giuliani admitting the FBI leaked info to the Trump campaign "thought crime?" Oh, that's right. It isn't. Wanna know the source? Read the actual news, not stupid shit some jackass made up right wing blogs. I see that, unable to offer counter information, you attack the source itself. So are you silly enough to say the racial/ethnic attacks with perpetrators invoking Trump's name didn't happen? What's your take on that, besides citing some 11 year old article from Newsweek? C'mon guy. You're disappointing me. Maybe you give half-hearted, disappointing responses because you know Trump shouldn't be president.

Yes, I know Trump will be President. The question becomes how long that will be the case. If his trials don't go well for him, he's already committed impeachable offenses. If Bill Clinton can be impeached for lying about getting a blowjob, surely fraud and racketeering are impeachable. It appears to be a myth that crimes would have to have been committed while in office. A possible impeachment attempt stands a good chance of being bipartisan since a whole lot of Republicans don't like him any more than the Democrats. Of course, the constitution does make it difficult to impeach a president and remove him from office.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-13, 23:33:37
What you are griping about would be more fine if it was not for th hard unfortunate situation that such is routine in the history of politics which means really both Democrats and Republicans. in this election the Democrats were hardly ever more principled than the other side so just bear with the hard truth. May I also remind (again) that Obama in his campaign for a second term as president got more big money than his opposite?!

The hard truth unfortunately is that both the 2 corporate parties time after time for all their ballyhoo have left a massive army of voters lower down (and in their millions) in the same dumped corner so where are the principles. For all his political ballyhoo Trump did touch on a heck of a lot of especially lower down people who are genuinely fed up with being left out of things. The number of people employed by private companies to sook in with members in both Houses covers the two parties and runs into as i also say a figure running into massive numbers.  So for any positives that may be on your side the 2 party fix and keeping others out the game has brought on wht you have got. All those would-be educated young who came out on the streets have some kind of common-sense lacking. The democrats were not any greater principled than Trump's side and that all those young came out like uneducated children tells you that you have a big problem over there in maturity in politics.

Dare say I can take in for a little the grump about Trump not being a politician but so what? Didn't i refer to another man who did the two terms as President and was not a politician -namely Eisenhower?? I dare say had you won there would have been jeering and all sorts of smugness but what the result shows that even in the daft system of Electoral Colleges) democracy was practiced you are rubbishing the thing. Dear, oh dear!  :whistle:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-14, 02:29:01
The info you posted is as reliable as the predictions you make are prescient, Sang… :) Your source has long been known to be a partisan "hit" factory whose targets are always Republicans; and, yet, you wonder why I doubt the veracity of its "news" reporting? (BTW: I'd never heard of it before your post. I wonder who else had? Anybody…?)

@Howie: The Electoral College is a system that's worked for more than 200 years… You don't seem to understand what a federal system is! But that's all right. It seems strange to almost everyone else, too.
And of course Sang has his panties in a twist: His candidate lost… Progressives aren't supposed to lose! :) After all, without progress things might…well, not progress!
(I still say: When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-14, 02:52:05
Well really in a sense OakdaleFTL i don't have to be bothered about the college stuff as I don't live in political cuckoo land!  As for the legth of time you have had such that proves nothing as you have had a constitution for longer and fight over that still don't you. I am not going to search into the college stuff but I am sure i overheard a tv report to say that if a party wins the most in a State then automatically all go to the one side? On the broader front I think it is utterly ludicrous that all those cities seen the young student types coming out to go daft wave nasty posers, curse and in one city attack premises. It just tends to show that even in the young educated the word 'democracy' is not fully understood in practical terms but just an emotional cry that means damn all.

I hope once in office of he alters any stances or reduces them what the same daft mentality will do or will they develop mental maturity that they were slow in getting to in the first place? The same brained people have to ask themselves why so many people in the country  who were not all brain dead decided for Trump. Many others who unwillingly went for Clinton also shows deep division in the whole system. But anyway although both sides dished out nasty items (yes both) Donald Trump has won and that has to be accepted. Sour grapes is one thing but the daftness in posters such as "he is not my President" and other immature and  kindergarten stuff is ridiculous.  They cannot boast about democracy then go daft because their candidate did not win. It's Trump so get on with it and let us wait to see how things adapt although with the mentality of all the idiots it may be slow.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-14, 04:20:45
Your source has long been known to be a partisan "hit" factory whose targets are always Republicans
Did Giuliani make the admission or not? Yes or not. You know how to use Google, right? Good. Get on it. Did you know that calling Rawstory "a partisan hit factory" is an Ad hominem attack. Of course you do, as you continue to disappoint. Show me that I'm wrong, that the Trump camp didn't have advance notice. You have to admit Giuliani's statements prior to Comey's idiotic messages seemed to telegraph what was happening. How did he seem to know this?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-14, 04:25:24
i don't have to be bothered about the college stuff as I don't live in political cuckoo land!
As usual, all you really mean is that you understand only what you know, what you grew up with… Your system seems daft, too, to many others! (That doesn't mean that it doesn't work. For your lot…)
About "boast[ing] about democracy then go[ing] daft because their candidate did not win," it's typical: I'll be grateful if they just "go daft"! (Remember the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks? :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-14, 04:31:43
How did he seem to know this?
You do know what job he held, before he became mayor of New York, right?
It does surprise me, that you, Sang, so quickly jump to conspiracy theories… But perhaps I'm too generous in my estimation of either your sincerity or intelligence. Perhaps you are, as RJ surmises: Just a sore loser! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-14, 04:39:23
but I am sure i overheard a tv report to say that if a party wins the most in a State then automatically all go to the one side?
That's correct. If Candidate A gets 50.01% of the vote in a state, he gets all the electoral votes. This is "cuckoo." Further, the small states are overrepresented in the electoral college, being guaranteed at least three electors. Yes, there are protests. Of course there are. Hispanics, blacks, LGBTQ now fear for their safety, as well as for their country. That's for good reason. There's been a wave of racially motivated attacks since Trump's election, often directly invoking Trump's name. Trump himself called for those to stop, but by appealing to the Alt-Right, he might have woken a Neo-Nazi dragon he can't tame. As further elaboration Vandals spray paint ‘Heil Trump,’ swastika, gay slur on Brown County church (http://fox59.com/2016/11/13/vandals-spray-paint-heil-trump-swastika-gay-slur-on-brown-county-church/)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-14, 04:49:57
It does surprise me, that you, Sang, so quickly jump to conspiracy theories...
Is it? If the man himself says the campaign got tipped off, it's not conspiracy theory. This is not a story confined Rawstory, you do know this right? I see you're still not able to demonstrate that the story is incorrect :left:

Speaking of Rawstory, you keep attacking it and HuffPo. HuffPo is unabashedly Liberal (I actually don't know about Rawstory. I originally found that article originally at news.google.com, which is my go to source for news) But even if both of those are Left/Liberal (despite the fact that don't source anything from HuffPo...) isn't this only fair? The Right/Conservatives have Breitbart and the Blaze, both publishing dubious information to outright lies about Clinton. Fair and Balanced (tm)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-14, 06:37:29
If Candidate A gets 50.01% of the vote in a state, he gets all the electoral votes.
Not in Maine and -what is it?- Minnesota? No. Nebraska. (see here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwilkqjKzKfQAhUOzmMKHT8NAP0QFggdMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.archives.gov%2Ffederal-register%2Felectoral-college%2Ffaq.html&usg=AFQjCNEx2FdfvUdtIt7hW5Mbu47yWqFKZw), if you don't believe me…)

Like Reagan said -a long time ago: "It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-14, 06:44:53
Speaking of Rawstory, you keep attacking it and HuffPo.
Keep attacking…? As I mentioned, I'd not heard of rawstory until your "Trump! Trump! Trump!" post. (I assume you threw in a reference to the Puffington Host in order to deflect — as RJ would say? :) )
isn't this only fair? The Right/Conservatives have Breitbart and the Blaze, both publishing dubious information to outright lies about Clinton. Fair and Balanced (tm)
Like I've said more than a few times, Sang: For you, everything is political!
That explains why you're -you'll excuse the expression?- butt-hurt by Trump's election…

As we used to say when I was young, sit on it and rotate! If you can't even be a competent hack… Well, everyone will know what you are.

BTW: What do you think about this (https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/11/11/2250241/peter-thiel-is-joining-donald-trumps-transition-team)?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-14, 08:39:33
calling Rawstory "a partisan hit factory" is an Ad hominem attack
Sang. calling rawstory a partisan "hit" factory is — repeating the Main Stream Media's view… And, as you know, a leopard doesn't change its spots!
Was Tawana Brawley's "story" true? Were the lacrosse team at Yale guilty of gang rape? (There are many cases of black "activists" manufacturing Klan atrocities in the last 20 years or so. Snowflakes need to be aggrieved to be empowered!)

What I want to know — if you can spare a moment of candor here — is: What do you hope to accomplish with this barrage?
(I expect predictions, like
rjhowie asked you: "Why isn't she miles ahead of Trump then?" In fact, she might be. In early voting, she's trouncing Trump. There are indications the polls understated her level of support versus Trump. I said so earlier, with the pollsters missing a lot of younger voters and Latinos. You should have heard Trump complain that the early voting stations had to extend their hours to accommodate the lines of people waiting to vote and the people waiting turned out to be Democrats (and a surge of Latinos showing up to vote against Trump.) We'll know for sure on Tuesday night. but Clinton could win by larger margins than expected.
Your hypotheticals are matched by your belief in mythological thinking: You were taught that only progressives would support your "sexuality" and you never looked back. You've been against anyone who wasn't "progressive" ever since.
Boy, excuse me for putting it so bluntly, but — get your head out of your ass!
———————————————————
And of course you've gotta love this post-script from the HuffPo article:
Quote
Editor’s note: Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.
Nothing "partisan" about that, eh? :)
———————————————————
I still wonder: Does Bill Maher yet realize how he helped create the Trump candidacy and election? I doubt it; he's a very superficial thinker…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-14, 13:30:22
John Oliver on the President Elect.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njl2EC6PXds[/video]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-11-14, 14:28:49
That upload was taken down quickly...

This one might last a few hours more, perhaps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l3p_YKNC7E
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-11-14, 18:37:56
Hey folks, take a rest. Thanks God it's over now! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-11-15, 02:45:56
the worst part is republican win  all chairs .

so even president trumps doing something nasty .

it will not that easy to impeach him
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-15, 04:28:30
Sang. calling rawstory a partisan "hit" factory is -- repeating the Main Stream Media's view...
I never knew you were a fan of the mainstream media. Anyway, I see you still can't answer the question. Did Giuliani admit the Trump campaign had inside FBI or not? Just the facts, sir. And I still didn't HuffPo as a resource, you repeating an editorial line from a source I didn't cite is baffling a best. It's probably the Republican strategy of repeating the big lie/insinuation over and over again, trying to get gullible people to believe it.

Oh yeah, did I ask you if the Rawstory article is correct enough times or not? I'm not allowing you to dance around this. I'm considering you not be able to admit that Giuliani spilling the beans on this tantamount to acknowledgment that the article is correct. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-15, 05:57:02
Oh yeah, did I ask you if the Rawstory article is correct enough times or not? I'm not allowing you to dance around this. I'm considering you not be able to admit that Giuliani spilling the beans on this tantamount to acknowledgment that the article is correct.
No one else seems to have the story… So, asking repeatedly is kinda silly. And your contention that Rudy received information illegally from the FBI is just your usual conspiracy theorizing…

I'm pretty sure your pre-conception aura animated the second gunman on the grassy knoll in Dallas on November 22, 1963… Prove me wrong, Sang! (Just using your style of argument…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-15, 16:11:02
No one else seems to have the story...
Clearly you didn't look. I told you before to get away from the rightwing blogs. I found it merely by going on Google News. This is actually not new - at all.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/04/politics/rudy-giuliani-hillary-clinton-email-fbi/
Quote
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani now denies that he was told by FBI agents that the bureau was reviewing newly discovered emails potentially related to Hillary Clinton's use of a private server before the review was publicly revealed.

Earlier, he had suggested that he was told by FBI agents about the review before it became public.
Giuliani, a top Donald Trump surrogate and adviser, told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on "The Situation Room" Friday that the FBI's announcement "came as a complete surprise, except to the extent that maybe it wasn't as much of a surprise."'

"I got it all from former FBI agents. Tremendous anger within the FBI about the way, number one, Jim Comey's conclusion (to not recommend criminal charges in July) and, number two, the way they believed they were being obstructed by what they regard as a pretty corrupt Obama Justice Department," Giuliani said. "Cutting off a grand jury investigation, cutting off subpoenas."
But earlier Friday, Giuliani, a former federal prosecutor, said he had "heard about" a forthcoming FBI announcement before it became public.
"This has been boiling up in the FBI. I did nothing to get it out. I had no role in it. Did I hear about it? Darn right I heard about it," Giuliani said on "Fox and Friends." He continued, "I can't even repeat the language I heard from the former FBI agents."
A week earlier -- before Comey's disclosure to Congress -- he told Fox News there was a "pretty big surprise" coming, though he did not provide further details. He told Blitzer the surprise was an upcoming advertising campaign: "I knew that was going to come as a big surprise."

Giuliani insisted to Blitzer that he did not receive a tip from someone currently in the FBI.
"In my case, it's real simple: I've talked to no FBI agent, I've talked to no Justice Department official. I have no idea about who's leaking information."

The former mayor added that everyone he does talk to in the FBI is a former agent.
Blitzer reminded Giuliani that in an October 28 interview on "The Lars Larson Show," the former mayor said he was in contact with former agents "and a few active agents, who obviously don't want to identify themselves."

"Well, the information I've been getting is from former FBI agents," Giuliani told Blitzer. "If I did say that, that was wrong."
Clinton campaign press secretary Brian Fallon suggested earlier Friday that an inspector general could have grounds to look into the possible leaking of information to Giuliani.

"This sure seems like adequate grounds for an Inspector General review," he tweeted.

Or is CNN a liberal hit machine as well? Giuliani boosts about his connection to FBI agents, but tries to backtrack once it dawns on him there are ethical violations with getting prior knowledge. If you really didn't know this happened, where have you been? Mars?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-15, 22:17:41
When I said "no one else seems to have the story" I was talking about the rawstory piece you linked to, Sang… Your including speculation about Giuliani, what he knew and how he knew it, lets you pretend you didn't know that. But your pretensions don't bother me! :)
When and if there's any kind of investigation, we'll see if there's anything to the Giuliani story you're trying to sell… (I expect the inspector general is competent to handle it, up to and including if there is anything actionable or prosecutable. Much as expect rumor to satisfy you!)

BTW: Washington leaks like a sieve! Always has… I'm surprised you hadn't heard!

So: Are you thinking that Mrs. Clinton can get a do-over of the election? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-16, 04:54:01
Strikes one that all those legions of young Americans on the streets have a problem even if coming from reasonable homes and so-called liberal thinking.  Some of the things they come out with in spluttering childish moans is almost laughable.  They were no better principled than much of the stuff labelled on the winner. You cannot boast on democracy then moan when you lose. Now we are getting this stuff about one of the 17 security agencies you lot need over there. On Clinton's side she came out with utter midden (garbage to ex-colonists) about Putin and Russia influencing the electoral system. No proof -nothing. Did they campaign as many now are mouthing at over the electoral college stuff before the vote? nope. The media went into over-drive on Clinton and not surprising as the corprates are in the Clinto corner as well.

The wider trouble is that for all the so-called liberal mindedness proclaimed by young democrats mostly from good home lives the hard fact is there are millions of very lost Americans who lost out when the factories closed and the corporates extended overseas instead. Did the would-be "liberal minds" go on about that? no they damn well didn't. There were some folk who voted Trump because they are fed up with much of the system and what goes on in DC while the armies of lower down people who lost out on wide industry closure were just simply ignored and that was not just by the traditional Republicans but the Democrats as well so they needn't try to be overly principled. Trump is not a traditional Republican and I still think he is a bit of a form of populist.

Krake is hitting the head  with a justifiable hammer as the election is over. Time this subject was left to go and the country now has to wait and see the direction instead of running about like a bunch of wee bairns in a nursery. You boast about democracy so have had it now get on with things. You couldn't get me so tough. :hat:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-16, 05:50:04
Of course Howie wants to stop talking, when he's finally been forced to admit his position — and how silly it is! :)
Our problem is typical of democracies: It's not that it's getting "wider," although it is. And it isn't that it's getting smaller in compass; it isn't. It's the same as it always has been: Democracy only works, if you win!
And it really is silly to decry populism, which is the hallmark of democracy, RJ!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-16, 07:27:06
Your including speculation about Giuliani,
What speculation is that? CNN confirms that he, in fact, said this. This is not rumor. There is not escaping this. I'm not saying there's going to be an investigation, the Republicans remain in control of both the House and Senate thanks to their gerrymandering. This reduces the chance there will actually be an investigation that goes anywhere. Also understand that Trump getting impeached might even be the best thing for the LGBTQ, since this would be Pence president. But the possibility of impeachment proceedings stemming from fraud and racketeering remain until the trial clears this up.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-16, 08:09:36
There were some folk who voted Trump because they are fed up with much of the system and what goes on in DC while the armies of lower down people who lost out on wide industry closure were just simply ignored and that was not just by the traditional Republicans but the Democrats as well so they needn't try to be overly principled.
Yet they voted for Trump, who made billions screwing working and middle-class people over. He finds himself sued by his contractors for nonpayment. In truth, there's little Trump or Clinton can do to reopen those factories in the midwest. However, Trump can work with Congress to reduce government grants so those workers can go back to school for skills needed in the information economy. Yes, those voters are anger. But does one act wisely or make serious mistakes when acting of anger?

But Trump is already backtracking on his campaign promises. We're no longer taking about deporting 11 million undocumented immigrants. It's now scaled down to 2-3 million. That's well within the range deported under Obama. Oh yes, Trump will deport undocumented immigrants that commit additional crimes in America. Guess what other president did that? Well, all of them really.

Now he's not even going to repeal the whole of Obamacare (which would be up to Congress anyway and they keep failing to be able to do that...) Now he'll keep most of the ACA, according to what he's saying now.

More on what he's already walking away from on CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/12/politics/donald-trump-campaign-promises/) See the end of the article; this is literally walking away (without the common misuse of the word, Oakdale :rolleyes:

So we could be looking at a whole lot of disappointed Conservatives to outright neo-nazis/fascists/Klan members. His success as president might hinge on him being able to put his business experience to work on the economy.  If so, his failure to keep those promises could be forgiven by most. But his trade policy as stated remains scary on the economic end. But he could turn out to be bluffing on a 35 percent tax on Mexican imports and a 45 percent tax on Chinese goods.
 
On Clinton's side she came out with utter midden (garbage to ex-colonists) about Putin and Russia influencing the electoral system. No proof -nothing
This is not entirely correct. I pointed out before that forensics indicates the attacks on the DNC servers did originate from Russia. However, this is not proof that Putin had anything to do with it. Please understand the difference. Let's say in the next 4 or 8 years Russian servers get hacked from the US. Would this mean Trump did it? Of course not.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-16, 13:01:09
(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1/?ui=2&ik=a4d9b6adac&view=fimg&th=1586d36665fdc5ae&attid=0.1&disp=emb&realattid=ii_1586d360e58b4c1a&attbid=ANGjdJ-83rkEMs2l7GIFQ2t3nnGiIlp1LDnBvL7DV_NDWGf-VumOtb6fVdgv-E_cauW8DYFnVkRQlyltDNPZaJwuAmBTVREYvUGEtEihdC51kzozeJMsmjOFKz2Ta-4&sz=w1124-h816&ats=1479301039612&rm=1586d36665fdc5ae&zw&atsh=1)
Dog bless America!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-11-16, 13:28:22
So, he wasn't elected by the people. He was elected by the States.
Hence, he isn't the president of the people. He is the president of the States.
Whatever it means.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-16, 15:11:50
So, he wasn't elected by the people. He was elected by the States.
Hence, he isn't the president of the people. He is the president of the States.
Whatever it means.
It means it's constitutional, if you actually read the constitution. The president is supposed to be elected by electors who are appointed by the states. The constitution does not promise that the people get to elect the president. Americans are under the impression that they get to elect the president probably because they are taught wrong things about their constitution in school. And because the process has been made intentionally messy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-11-16, 15:25:09
Hence, he isn't the president of the people. He is the president of the States.
Whatever it means.
It probably means, president of the United States. :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-11-16, 15:57:35
Still meaningless.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-16, 19:59:59
It probably means, president of the United States.
:yes:  They aren't very united at the moment. Perhaps never. :yes:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-11-16, 20:16:15
Americans are under the impression that they get to elect the president probably because they are taught wrong things about their constitution in school.
Nah, they teach it right. Theory and practice are the differences. It's why you still hear the "Republic" thing from Americans. In theory the State's relationship to the Federal Gov has republic qualities (not the people's). Things like ratification and State's sovereignty are there to keep a democratic body from changing the fundamental structure of the Union. Also in theory the electoral college is the 1st level security for election of the President. (The "are you sure?" popup.) In practice most states award all their electoral points to who wins the popular vote in their State. If someone wanted to change that it would then require changing it in your home State by voting local. To change it on a Federal level should require ratification.

Voting for the President is the least important place to cast your vote... That's what should be but isn't taught.   
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-16, 23:04:49
In practice most states award all their electoral points to who wins the popular vote in their State.
Nebraska and Maine can split their electoral votes.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-11-17, 00:17:47
It's a well known fact.......if not, it should be.......the word DEMOCRACY is not mentioned anywhere in the U.S. Constitution.

The word DEMOCRACY is not mentioned anywhere in the Constitutions of any of the States.

The word DEMOCRACY is not mentioned anywhere in the Declaration of Independence.

The logical question would then be........Why?

Simply because the Founding Fathers wanting nothing to do with DEMOCRACY.....they know that a DEMOCRACY would eventually destroy itself.

This desire to not form a DEMOCRACY is well spelled out in many of their writings, & the transcripts & accountings of the debates prior to ratification of the Constitution, even before the Declaration itself.

That's why they instituted a Republic.......

[glow=blue,2,300]  A Constitutional Republic [/glow]

[glow=blue,2,300]A Constitutional Republic, based in part, on simple democratic principals,
but grounded firmly on a 'Rule of Law' ....... the United States Constitution.
[/glow]
[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj0zBMq1EaE[/VIDEO]

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-11-17, 02:49:56
when theres voting , there's democracy .
the idea is back to ancient europe , voting with stones .

i guess republican will still become republican.
doubled standard as always .

and democrats  , well ... this is new .
they also can be a sore loser .
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-11-17, 10:37:51
"This is not a DEMOCRACY (sic)", hence the voting system makes sense.
Well... no.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-11-17, 11:13:53
The system was put in place by the US founding fathers to prevent people like Trump from taking power. That system clearly lost the first round, but I think it will win in the end.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-17, 11:14:10
Yes a very riveting and direct point there Smiley.  All those no doubt middle-class young college dafties need to grow up. They were happy enough about the "system" when the media went daft on the Democrat candidate, they didn't bother with the political college thing either. But when they lost all tears, crying, going daft. Is there something even worse about the educational system than already known? If they are going to continue demonstrating for yonks because they lost all they will do is make the country a laughing stock. Boasting about democracy and how great their country is then acting like a bunch of illiterate head cases. All those young students do is make themselves look immature and brain dead. It was big money the media who rattled on in the Clinton camp and they were easily brained into the daftness.

Did those would-be principled idiots ever go out on the mater f the large numbers who lost jobs, houses, etc due to factory and business closures? Nope. Did they go national on the millions of poor? Nope. Afunny kind of liberal thinking altogether I muse and they act like spoiled brats.

The election is over so I do hope they mentally grow up before they are pensioners!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-17, 13:09:11
I dedicate a small portion of Sir Walter Scott's poem, Marmion, to Sir Donald Trump.
========


‘In brief, my lord, we both descried
(For then I stood by Henry’s side)
The Palmer mount, and outwards ride,
  Upon the Earl’s own favourite steed:
All sheathed he was in armour bright,                      510
And much resembled that same knight,
Subdued by you in Cotswold fight:
  Lord Angus wish’d him speed.’-
The instant that Fitz-Eustace spoke,
A sudden light on Marmion broke;-                        515
‘Ah! dastard fool, to reason lost!’
He mutter’d; ‘Twas nor fay nor ghost
I met upon the moonlight wold,
But living man of earthly mould.-
  O dotage blind and gross!                                520
Had I but fought as wont, one thrust
Had laid De Wilton in the dust,
  My path no more to cross.-
How stand we now?-he told his tale
To Douglas; and with some avail;                          525
  ‘Twas therefore gloom’d his rugged brow.-
Will Surrey dare to entertain,
‘Gainst Marmion, charge disproved and vain?
Small risk of that, I trow.
Yet Clare’s sharp questions must I shun;                  330
Must separate Constance from the Nun-
O, what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!

A Palmer too!-no wonder why
I felt rebuked beneath his eye:                            535
I might have known there was but one,
Whose look could quell Lord Marmion.’

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fshoebat.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fputin_trump-620x412.jpg&hash=900b220ad128c8b60c0d498c0d7b6d3e" rel="cached" data-hash="900b220ad128c8b60c0d498c0d7b6d3e" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://shoebat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/putin_trump-620x412.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-11-17, 14:05:35
That system clearly lost the first round, but I think it will win in the end.
I wish you were right.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-17, 15:37:25
If they are going to continue demonstrating for yonks because they lost all they will do is make the country a laughing stock.
You do know the Republicans were demonstrating and held bizarre conspiracy theories against Obama for eight years, right? But this time it's not merely because Clinton lost. It's because a lot of people are terrified of Trump and what he'll do to the country. And also because of the spat of racial attacks since Trump got elected and invoking his name (a couple days ago we had already past 400, just what people were afraid of.) Now he wants Stephen Bannon, a highly suspected White Nationalist as his chief strategist, which is what I said would happen with Trump. These "people" would infiltrate the highest levels of government.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-11-17, 17:28:54
I wish you were right.
You and I both. I have been wrong before.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-18, 00:20:22
I wish you were right.
You and I both. I have been wrong before.
Brasilians and Scandinavians are in love.
The power of Trump.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-18, 11:49:17
An average of 8 per State that is in the 400 incidents. It is as stretched as the racial nonsense I mentioned on things like th KKK. A tiny group of nutters but this kind of moaning means little. And the other side fighting the police and destroying property and shops?It was an election and one side wins the other loses. That's it. In regular places it is called democracy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-11-19, 06:48:59
It was an election and one side wins the other loses. That's it. In regular places it is called democracy.

In America it's called one thing, it's called an Election........Democracy has nothing to do with it here....thank God, & thank The Founding Fathers for despising the thought of a Democracy so!

This was evident in that the word DEMOCRACY can't be found anywhere in the Declaration of Independence......nor anywhere in the US Constitution, nor in the Constitutions of the individual 50 States.

The Founding Fathers decided that they wanted the United States to be a Constitutional Republic, as far as it could be from a pure Democracy.

Why?

Very simple..........To Protect the minority from the tyranny of a majority.

The US government's legitimacy and moral right to use state power is only justified & legal when consented to by The People they were hired to govern.

So, for over 230 years the United States has happily been a [glow=blue,2,300]Constitutional Republic [/glow]......with only the slightest dependence on some basic Democratic principals.

God Bless the Republic......Death to the King!






Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-19, 10:25:04
As for that brain dead woman from Alaska, I am not sure which she needs to look after in that picture the most.
PhotoShop is unknown in Scotland, then? :) Or just intelligence…?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-11-19, 13:58:39
Quote
This was evident in that the word DEMOCRACY can't be found anywhere in the Declaration of Independence

that was argumentum ad ignorantium .

even there is no word democracy in the constitution , however there is democracy in the u.s .
i think the only reason why republican deny democracy is theother party  using democra-- as name .
i guess if democrat using crattatata party to naming their party  , they wont denying democracy at all .
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-19, 14:09:31
Very simple..........To Protect the minority from the tyranny of a majority.
True. Without that, there might have been slavery or worse.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-11-19, 14:22:07
This was evident in that the word DEMOCRACY can't be found anywhere in the Declaration of Independence......nor anywhere in the US Constitution, nor in the Constitutions of the individual 50 States.
Do you think the word democracy can be found in any European constitutions? I'd wager (but not too much) that you can only find the word democracy in the names or constitutions of countries that can't be described as such by any stretch of the imagination. Regardless whether we're talking about the usually irrelevant ancient Greek or the regular modern meaning.

A whale is called a walvis in Dutch, therefore it's a fish. ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-11-19, 14:37:49
modern democracy = the people elect their ruler ( President nor representatives )

while inthe video they said , democracy = ruled by the majority .
it was strawman .

commoners will deceived easily  .
but not the one which understand philosopical logic BS .

btw, i never witnesses democracy nor republic works as intended .
both are just scheme of  plutocrats to rule a country .

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-11-19, 15:29:04
Capitalistic Republic of Democratic States?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-11-19, 17:22:40
Sounds like a lovely place to live. :lol:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-19, 21:35:00
Nope, United Republic of Capitalistic States. URCS, not too much of a difference from URSS.
There's nothing "democratic" about it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-20, 15:33:45
With who he's trying to get for his cabinet, it will be the Fascist Republic of Deplorable States :p An Attorney General denied a federal judgeship because of his racism. Really? Of course Bannon didn't want his kids going to school with Jews (easily verified, Oakdale...) Never vote for the man backed of White Supremacists, Klan Members, Neo-nazis, etc in your fucking life even out of party loyalty.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-20, 16:47:26
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxt0z58WQAI1jFJ.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-20, 17:51:55
And those are his strong points.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-20, 19:44:19
You really are making yourself look silly midnight and rather, well daft. As i have already indicated the KK are a tiny organisation and people like them an equal small contingent. Your country carried out an election on the accepted system (even that pointless Electoral college stuff) and because you do not agree with the organised result you go cloud cuckoo. Your side was so trained into a win, win scenario and the media did in practice help the Clintons. No-one was moaning about the damn system until your side lost and all hell breaks loose. It was in simple terms an election and people voted. It is one thing not to be happy with the result but going bananas and throwing in cursing does no credit at all. People voted and one side has to win and the other lose. I dare say had the Democrats won you would have been going sneering daft the Republicans! Moaning about that small racist group mentality does you no good at all and the unfortunate result is that the liberal minded ethos has been made to look immature and childish.

So be disappointed but it was a legal process and the vote result has to be accepted so let us see how the new regime works, eh?You practiced a form of democracy.....
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-20, 23:03:52
Sessions and Flynn are bigots? You've completely lost it, Sang... Oh, wait: No you haven't -- what you mean is, they disagree with you! You've reverted to form... :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-21, 13:36:57
On liberal America:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/20/saturday-night-lives-bubble-skit-about-liberals-in-denial-over-trump-was-perfect/?tid=pm_politics_pop (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/20/saturday-night-lives-bubble-skit-about-liberals-in-denial-over-trump-was-perfect/?tid=pm_politics_pop)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-21, 15:18:13
Sessions and Flynn are bigots?
Absolutely. You know nothing of this do you? I don't suppose you can tell us if the rest of the list is correct or not, being ignorant enough to vote Trump.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-21, 20:21:32
I don't suppose you can tell us if the rest of the list is correct or not, being ignorant enough to vote Trump.
(BTW: Glad to see that you deleted the empty list… Apparently, your "the usual Dem talking points" macro misfired! Oops!

Sessions has long been a supporter of traditional marriage and an opponent of re-defining it. Which is to say, he disagrees with you.
Flynn accepts the "Conflict of Civilizations" analysis… Who knew, that you support Islamic jihadism as a legitimate political position here in the U.S.? One wonders why…? (I don't: You are simply and simple-mindedly against the Republicans and now Trump…)

Being ignorant enough to vote for Hillary (or any other candidate…) is not a mutually exclusive proposition; but logic has never been your strong point.

Trump won. Get over it!

But of course you can't: Your fantasy world is crumbling and your irrational fears have come to the fore…
Relax! You can still be gay. You can still prefer a Stalinist 5-year plan economy. You can certainly still pretend that your views should be required by the coercive power of government… But you don't have much control of the government now; so, you have to "fight" for your right — to party? No. To rule!
Guess what, Sang: The constitution rules, and within its constraints, the people (of which, you're one).

I did vote for Trump (…with great misgivings). Who did you vote for?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-22, 05:04:35
"Traditional" marriage has nothing at all to do with it. Sessions has a long history of trying to prosecute African American civil rights workers, including an aid to Martin Luther King. According to him the NAACP is "un-American" and "communist inspired. He called a white civil rights worker a "disgrace to his race" for litigating American American civil rights cases. Oh yes, the only thing wrong with KKK is some members smoke weed. I know you're used to call racism charges smears and whatever, but some people really are blatant racists/white supremacists and are entering the Trump administration just like I said would happen.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-22, 07:56:54
Smoking weed? No, I'd say you're smoking crack, Sang… Who's feeding you this?
some people really are blatant racists/white supremacists and are entering the Trump administration just like I said would happen
When did you say this? And when will you substantiate such a claim?
The latter, never: For some reason, your panties are in a twist… That's enough, for you, to lash out at whoever doesn't share your peculiar "political" focus.
And who, specifically, is a blatant racist/white supremacist who's entering the administration? SPLC pointed them out, did they? :)

Trump won the election. (It surprised me, too.) So, what are you going to do?

Well, it seems you're going to do the usual Democrat thing: Make shit up and pile it higher and deeper… Hoping no one will be able to  withstand the continual charges of "racism". or discrimination…
Do any of your ideals go beyond your dick and your anus? I don't think so. You're a pathetic person, Sang. And, perhaps, that's why you're so mad…
(Although I don't see any threat to you or your proclivities. At most, government promulgation of "grooming" will be discontinued…)
How long can you continue this stance? (I'm thinking, as long as you last… Being wrong, as a Democrat, means never having to say you're sorry! :) )
You were fine with an actual Grand Dragon of the KKK in the Senate, when you thought you'd "tamed" him…? Guess what, babykins, you didn't! Your candidate, who had no problems with him, lost. You should be glad. But for you it's "party first". Well, comrade, you're in the wrong country.
Try Canada or Mexico; or Saudi Arabia… Maybe Iran,

But don't try to go to England; they've cut the cord to the EU. (Maybe you can sneak in, and out, before anyone notices… :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-11-22, 11:26:29
https://youtu.be/1o6-bi3jlxk

Nazi salutes, terminology abound as alt-right leader champions white supremacy (http://www.timesofisrael.com/nazi-salutes-references-abound-as-alt-right-leader-champions-white-supremacy/)

Quote from: Times of Israel
At National Policy Institute conference Richard Spencer ‘hails’ Trump victory, appears to allude to Jewish power controlling national media

A new video posted by The Atlantic on Monday night showed the man often described as the leader of the the American alt-right movement as he evoked Nazi imagery and language and ranted about white supremacy, while his audience responded with Nazi salutes.

Richard Spencer, head of the white nationalist National Policy Institute, made the speech at the NPI’s annual conference at the Ronald Reagan Building in Washington, DC.

“Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!” Spencer cried out, as he praised president-elect Donald Trump’s recent election win. A rapturous audience responded with applause and quite a few Hitler salutes.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-22, 16:37:47
At National Policy Institute conference Richard Spencer 'hails' Trump victory, appears to allude to Jewish power controlling national media
Interesting, of course, but in the real world it's meaningless, akin to somebody shouting Porky Pig for president. Neo-Nazism is active in Germany, but is it a significant part of daily life.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-22, 16:51:30
I just recieved this from my Buddhist advisor. When I log off, I plan to stare at it and mutter my prayers.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b30d1a_46bb79d28ce243d181ca979c02fe55a6~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_560,h_420,al_c,lg_1,q_80/b30d1a_46bb79d28ce243d181ca979c02fe55a6~mv2.webp)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-22, 18:25:38
And when will you substantiate such a claim?
Howie is right. You are a hermit. That's the only explanation for you NOT knowing this.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-22, 22:22:51
Jax you are falling into the same rather immature nonsense already expressed here in that organisation shown has around what is it roughly three and a half thousand. So they and the other dafties like the KKK are nothing. Trump way out groups and it is a desperate anti-Trump thing to use them as a hammer. It would be just as daft if the Communist tinies over there came out for Clinton??

Hey jimbro. Stealing my favourite colour for your pal.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-23, 01:51:11
Howie is right. You are a hermit. That's the only explanation for you NOT knowing this.
Code: [Select]
[list]
  [*] undefined
  [*] [url=https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=315.msg67768#][/url][/list]
As usual, you only offer your presumptions… What is THIS? (This is the second time you've tried to post a list…and failed. Hm.)

If I'm a hermit because I don't agree that our schools and government in general should accommodate gays "grooming" their next generation of victims? That, of course, makes me a bigot too!
Sang, be honest (at least, with yourself…): Who "initiated" you? A peer or (as I'd call him…) a pervert?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-23, 08:53:50
https://youtu.be/1o6-bi3jlxk

Nazi salutes, terminology abound as alt-right leader champions white supremacy (http://www.timesofisrael.com/nazi-salutes-references-abound-as-alt-right-leader-champions-white-supremacy/)

Quote from: Times of Israel
At National Policy Institute conference Richard Spencer ‘hails’ Trump victory, appears to allude to Jewish power controlling national media

A new video posted by The Atlantic on Monday night showed the man often described as the leader of the the American alt-right movement as he evoked Nazi imagery and language and ranted about white supremacy, while his audience responded with Nazi salutes.

Richard Spencer, head of the white nationalist National Policy Institute, made the speech at the NPI’s annual conference at the Ronald Reagan Building in Washington, DC.

“Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!” Spencer cried out, as he praised president-elect Donald Trump’s recent election win. A rapturous audience responded with applause and quite a few Hitler salutes.
At least deplored with nonsense, but seems obvious to the fact his hardline campaign rhetoric emboldened these jokers.

If I'm a hermit because I don't agree that our schools and government in general should accommodate gays "grooming" their next generation of victims? That, of course, makes me a bigot too!

You're a hermit for evidently not going of the house to see what's happening in the world and for getting your "news" from post-truth(= (Oxford's word of the year! (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/word-of-the-year/word-of-the-year-2016) ) rightwing blogs, avoiding actuals news like the plague. Seriously, it takes zero effort to verify those claims which are in the public record.

It would be just as daft if the Communist tinies over there came out for Clinton??
They didn't cause a minimum of 400 racial/ethnic attacks and counting. Even a nazi has the constitutional right to peaceful assembly. The problem comes in with what they're doing. The socialists might  say "we endorse Clinton over Trump." Some of the more violent members of the "alt-right" neo-nazi's. fascists. racists, etc are actually attacking people. 
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-23, 15:05:50
The election is over. Now we'll watch the aftermath or after math:
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDN3uzbD.jpg&hash=9bd33f73e88cfee9f836a2abea38d225" rel="cached" data-hash="9bd33f73e88cfee9f836a2abea38d225" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/DN3uzbD.jpg) plus (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDN3uzbD.jpg&hash=9bd33f73e88cfee9f836a2abea38d225" rel="cached" data-hash="9bd33f73e88cfee9f836a2abea38d225" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/DN3uzbD.jpg) equals (https://media2.giphy.com/media/xT8qBvVrX0wuuItpFm/200_s.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-11-23, 21:14:06
At least a couple of States legalized mary j. There's a State on either coast if things get too much.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-24, 01:08:51
And the hard truth that the extreme right is a tiny lot is still being deliberately ignored by you midnight raccoon. They don't amount to a hill of beans and it is pointless trying to use them as an excuse as to why your side lost the election.  Sensible people know that corner is nothing in practice and you do yourself no good creating the impression they are a vast movement.On some matters Trump has been a little bit backing away from the earlier attitude leading up to the vote so let's see what actually happens when he is in the white House eh?

It was an election and you lost and  will frustrate you but everyone exercised their right to vote and someone has to win or lose. The media was very one-sided and equally many over there did not like that and tens of millions cannot just be written off as numpties or your country has a bigger problem than you realise. Money is always a big thing over there and affects BOTH parties and more and more folk were getting fed up with the carve up between Democrats and Republicans. Until you have a wider situation more and more there will get fed up with the routine and is why so many swarmed to Trump.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-11-24, 06:29:41
you know donald trump is a better politician than clinton .
he has strong gimmicks , and has art of possible .

rather than building good images , he build a racist blatanly stupid  images .
and it was something like  paradoxical intention  .

as the result more people vote   him than clinton
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-24, 15:36:24
The media was very one-sided
This part is true. We always had to hear about Clinton's stupid emails, but not a peep until now about Trump's conflicts of interest. I wonder if Oakdale knows the clause in the constitution that could be problematic for him. I doubt it. It actually doesn't matter how many are "far right" if he's already nominating them for his administration.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-24, 19:24:04
Trump won to a large extent by appealing to the working men of the country.
The prospective Trump cabinet:

"Donald Trump campaigned as a champion of the “forgotten man” and won the White House on the strength of his support among the white working class.

So far, he’s stacking his administration with masters of the universe.

Beyond Trump himself, who claims a net worth of more than $10 billion, the president-elect has tapped businesswoman Betsy DeVos, whose family is worth $5.1 billion, and is said to be considering oil mogul Harold Hamm ($15.3 billion), investor Wilbur Ross ($2.9 billion), private equity investor Mitt Romney ($250 million at last count), hedge fund magnate Steve Mnuchin (at least $46 million), and super-lawyer Rudy Giuliani (estimated to be worth tens of millions of dollars) to round out his administration. And Trump’s likely choice for deputy commerce secretary, Todd Ricketts, comes from the billionaire family that owns the Chicago Cubs.

Even retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, who’s up for the job of secretary of housing and urban development, has an estimated fortune of $26 million, while White House adviser Steve Bannon has likely earned millions off his stake in the show “Seinfeld” alone. Andrew Puzder, a possible labor secretary, is no slouch, either — he made more than $4.4 million in 2012 as CEO of the holding company that owns restaurant chains Hardee’s and Carl’s Jr.

Put together, Trump’s Cabinet and administration could be worth as much as $35 billion, a staggering agglomeration of wealth unprecedented in American history."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-24, 21:32:23
I wonder if Oakdale knows the clause in the constitution that could be problematic for him
…Oh, do-tell! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-24, 21:53:27
The Politico piece you quoted, Mr. Tenn., ended:
Quote
Concerns about the political ramifications of such gilded company, however, might be overstated. After all, Trump’s own lavish lifestyle did not keep him from winning the White House.

"I don’t think anyone expected union leaders form Michigan to be appointed to the Trump cabinet,” said Larry Sabato, director of the center for politics at the University of Virginia. “It certainly suggests what we’ve always known about Trump: he says one thing and does another. He’s very flexible.”

Sabato noted that presidents have long picked friends and acquaintances to fill their cabinets.

“A billionaire tends to have billionaire friends,” he said.
(source (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-cabinet-billionaires-millionaires-231831))
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-24, 21:55:11
Well as the country has been controlled by the corporates for a while now hardly surprising. You should have taken Dwight Eisenhower's warning decades ago.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-24, 22:16:07
You mean about government-financed science? :) (BTW: Ike also said that if NATO lasted longer than 10 years it would have failed its mission…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-24, 22:18:52
Quote
Sabato noted that presidents have long picked friends and acquaintances to fill their cabinets.
(source (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-cabinet-billionaires-millionaires-231831))
Now it's family, not just friends and acquaintances. Well, not just family. It will be policy for personal pockets. Nepotism and kleptocracy that will make US completely non-different from Russia. Except that US will fall that way, whereas Russia stands up that way and cannot stand any other way.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-25, 01:30:36
Mike Lee's take on the Trump presidency (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/442450/donald-trump-conservatives-principled-populism-framework-working-together)… An interesting prognosis and prescription of our "ongoing American saga"!

BTW, Sang: What was the clause of the constitution you thought might be "problematical" for Trump? And what did you mean by problematical? :) (The word doesn't appear in the constitution or any law that I'm familiar with…) I guess what you mean is that you're still butt-hurt that Clinton lost…
If it's something as simple as impeachment, you should have taken a civics course way back when… Impeachment is a political act; and conviction requires more than a majority in the senate.

So, Sang, what did you mean to say? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-11-25, 15:23:50
(https://s12.postimg.org/d0s8amc6l/Untitled_1.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-25, 16:06:15
What was the clause of the constitution you thought might be "problematical" for Trump?
I always knew you didn't really know the constitution. Most "constitutional conservatives" don't. :) Read Article I, Section 9 and let's see if you know why. Oh what's that? This is liberal mudslinging? Nope. Bush Whitehouse ethics lawyer Richard Painter noted this. The man is walking impeachment bait, worse than Hillary had she won. "Crooked Hillary?" :lol:
Put together, Trump's Cabinet and administration could be worth as much as $35 billion, a staggering agglomeration of wealth unprecedented in American history."
And yet we have Republican voters railing against "the elite" and "the establishment." It's hard to get more "elite" and "establishment" than these folks.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-25, 16:17:06
And here come the conflicts of interest...

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/25/donald-trumps-stock-in-oil-pipeline-company-raises-concern.html

Oh good, we even have an oil billionaire possible energy secretary...

Quote
Besides Trump, at least two possible candidates for energy secretary also could benefit from the pipeline. Oil billionaire Harold Hamm could ship oil from his company, Continental Resources, through the pipeline...
What was that? Hillary is corrupt? Baby, you ain't seen nothin' yet. Tricky Dick himself could be held up as paragon of ethics compared to Trump.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-25, 18:14:47
I see you've reached the stage of desperation, Sang! (I always knew you had it in you… :) ) You're in "emanations of penumbras" territory.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-25, 23:03:50
When it comes o ethics Clinton for all her experience could get much of that same label. Both candidates had a veritable army of people who did not like either of them and that in turn led to one of the most vitriolic and nasty elections you have had for a long time. The lower you were in society it didn't make a twopenny damn which one won.That is a lot of people.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-26, 10:42:47
When it comes o ethics Clinton for all her experience could get much of that same label.
Unless Trump puts his assets in a blind trust or liquidates, we're looking at ethics issues hitherto unknown in the American presidency. Of course, you are correct that people would continue to put this label on Hillary. But anything she had the potential to do is small potatoes compared to Trump. Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-11-11/trump-s-business-ties-will-run-afoul-of-the-constitution) elaborates Painter's concerns:

Quote
"It is a significant risk because it applies to the president," Painter says. His recommendation: President Trump should "unwind all business relationships with foreign governments and companies controlled by foreign governments, including the Bank of China." There is nothing to suggest Trump or his family will consider that step.
Yes, Oakdale this were Trump would violate the fore-mentioned clause of the constitution. Get it yet? Included free in the bargain for a Trump presidency comes almost an almost unbelievable amount of ethics and integrity concerns.

Quote
The public will have reason to believe that Trump's "decisions are influenced by personal interests," says Stephen Gillers, an ethics expert and professor at New York University Law School. "The problem is exacerbated because of the number and diversity of his financial interests. It is not just a peanut farm. It is further compounded as the public doesn't know what all these interests are."
Such as the pipeline and this would obviously also apply to his prospective energy secretary.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-26, 10:59:47
"Concerns" are what matter? Now?
The Democrat party ran a candidate about whom any rational person would have had serious "concerns"… And the way they ran their nomination process showed everyone that they were in no wise interested in listening to their "voters".
Hillary was the candidate. She lost the election.
What do you, Sang, find so hard to understand about this?

Oh, I remember: Anyone who disagrees with you is stupid and/or evil!
Thanks for the "heads up"; I'll continue to vote. Heck, I might even vote "often"… (Just following a long-established Democrat tradition! :) )

BTW: What bar to the presidency of Trump has anyone found? (Come on, Sang. You can't just keep slinging innuendo… –Well, of course, you can: That's what you do!) Is there a law that obtains?
Silly question, I know — when asked of you: You don't believe in law; you believe in revenge and vengeance  — although you don't know the difference.
Trump won. Get over it!

Also BTW, who's your next champion? :)

As usual, a Dem says "If you can't prove yourself innocent, you must be guilty!" (Of course, that standard doesn't apply to Dems… :) )

Sang, if you want to impeach (or otherwise derail) the Trump presidency — go for it!
You can't possibly look stupider!

(Would you accept -as a gift from me- a mirror? :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-26, 11:29:36
BTW: What bar to the presidency of Trump has anyone found?
If he continues in his business holdings and dealings, they could become a bar his continued presidency. His solutions are simple, a blind trust or to liquidate and sit on fat pile of cash. But I see you're unable to answer the constitutional question of his business dealings with foreign governments directly. Answer them or withdraw from a conversation you're unprepared for. Now.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-26, 12:18:14
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-idUSKBN13K26W

Quote
President-elect Donald Trump on Friday chose Washington insider Donald McGahn to be his White House counsel, giving him the job of untangling potential conflicts of interest that the New York businessman's presidency may present.

McGahn, a former chairman of the Federal Election Commission, had been the chief counsel of the Trump campaign and was one of the few members of the Republican establishment to embrace the outsider candidate.

This is real, Oakdale. Get with the program. Now we need to see how McGahn handles this and advises him. Don't tell me you didn't see the conflicts of interest ethics/integrity issues coming from a mile away.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-26, 23:57:34
I'm not with the left's program, Sang… (Nor the "Never Trump" Republicans'.) Trump won the nomination, and then the election. Now he's preparing to assume office. It's called the transition…
The position of Legal Counsel is long established. It doesn't have the implications you seem to think it does.
But I suppose you can continue to dream! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-27, 01:42:26
An election is a valid process and we have to live with the outcome whatever one may have as a sided opinion. In hard practice Americans will have to wait until the new leader THEY have elected gets in and people see what the actual practice will be. After four years you have the opportunity of chasing him but if he gets in again then tough we are not taking you back.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-27, 02:15:48
I'm glad to hear that the bust of Churchill will be prominently displayed in the White House…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-27, 04:39:19
I'm not with the left's program, Sang... (Nor the "Never Trump" Republicans'.)
Do you deny there's the potential for conflicts of interests as well violation of the Emoluments Clause clause to the constitution? Just for a quick example, the state-owned Bank of China is a tenant of Trump Tower in Manhattan. You're forgetting, Painter is not "the Left." He's former the former Bush Whitehouse ethics lawyer.

If Hillary teaches us anything, it's that this doesn't even necessarily have to be legally correct (the ethics lawyers will figure this out.) Legally, Hillary wasn't breaking the law using private email servers. She was cleared twice by the FBI. But the mere suggestion by Republicans that she was swung enough votes from her to cost the election. Unless Trump turns his assets over the a Blindtrust, Democrats could hold Trump to one term on the suggestion of scandal - taking a page from the GOP playbook. What comes around goes around. I wonder how many business dealings with the Russian government he has; I'll bet that will go over well nice in middle America regardless of if the dealings are technically legal or not.

You also forgot that I noted Trump getting impeached might not the best thing to happen. Impeachment attempts need to be reserved for if Trump truly goes haywire, not merely for not liking that he won. You confuse stating the possibility of impeachment if he fails to put his assets in a Blindtrust with actually agitating for it.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-27, 05:06:15
Do you deny there's the potential for conflicts of interests
Anyone who hasn't lived under a rock before public service has "the potential for conflicts of interest"… You're playing with words in a highly partisan way! Not unusual for a Democrat. But not convincingly un-hypocritical, BTW.
[…]as well violation of the Emoluments Clause clause to the constitution?
Yes. Since Trump has not assumed office yet, your premature "misgivings" are just another example of sore loser syndrome.
When you're in your safe-space, do you mewl and cry to yourself, "Surely there's something we can get him on?"

If Trump has ethical problems, the Ethics Court will deal with them. If he has legal problems, our local or Article III courts will deal with them. If Trump has problems with convincing the formerly-known-as Sanguinemoon of his bone fides and good intentions, that guy probably won't vote for Trump for a second term… Sobeit.

(The Ethics Court is -of course- the court of public opinion… You're as much a juror as everyone else; and, in the grand tradition of the Democrat party, you've already made up your mind: Evidence and testimony are for wimps who don't have the courage of their convictions!)

The Clause clause? You mean the few words you'd pick out to apply for the purposes of innuendo? :)
—————————————————————————
Adler (over at the Volokh Conspiracy) concludes:
Quote
Whether or not one concludes that Trump’s business dealings violate the letter or the spirit of the Emoluments Clause, the underlying controversy is almost certainly non-justiciable. It is difficult to conceive of a scenario in which someone would have standing to challenge Trump’s arrangements, and even harder to think what sort of remedy could be ordered by a court. In other words, if there are concerns about how President Trump handles his various investments, the only remedies will be political.
Whether or not one concludes that Trump’s business dealings violate the letter or the spirit of the Emoluments Clause, the underlying controversy is almost certainly non-justiciable. It is difficult to conceive of a scenario in which someone would have standing to challenge Trump’s arrangements, and even harder to think what sort of remedy could be ordered by a court. In other words, if there are concerns about how President Trump handles his various investments, the only remedies will be political.
(source (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/11/21/the-emoluments-clause-is-donald-trump-violating-its-letter-or-spirit/))
Or -as I've said- you want to use whatever you think you can get away with, Sang, to get a "re-do" on the election… :) Good luck with that! (No: I really mean that! Should you manage to install Mrs. Clinton as president, the Democrat party is doomed. Even most Democrats won't accept that…)
______________________________________________
A commenter to Adler's post said (http://washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/11/21/the-emoluments-clause-is-donald-trump-violating-its-letter-or-spirit/?outputType=comment&commentID=washingtonpost.com/ECHO/item/d616a3c1-1240-42f7-8abb-0e31da6f8130):
Quote
I argued before the election that Trump would be a better choice than Hillary simply because he can be impeached if he steps out of line, while Hillary thinks she is above the law and has been repeatedly proven right. So I'm almost rooting for him to be impeached, as much to restore Congress to its rightful place as the most powerful branch as for any other reason. I am chomping at the bit waiting for the Pence adminstration to start.
 
But don't you think we should actually wait for Trump to do something wrong first? For everyone that slammed Trump saying the system is rigged, and for saying that he wasn't sure he would respect the results, don't you think maybe we should respect the results now. Then let the system work when it needs to?
 
I'll be right there in the cheering section if he gets impeached, but maybe where I'm a little out of step here is I think we should wait for him to do something wrong first.
I wouldn't argue with that…
Trump needs to honor his oath. Congress needs to step up and do their job.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-27, 14:39:10
Unfortunately the bust of my hero Sir Winston Churchill should be a reminder of democracy. Ah well, it keeps hope open for, one day!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-27, 17:20:52
Whether or not one concludes that Trump's business dealings violate the letter or the spirit of the Emoluments Clause, the underlying controversy is almost certainly non-justiciable.
So even he can't rule out the possibility that Trump could well violate the Emoluments clause. The remedy wouldn't go to the courts, but to Congress for impeachment. You try to put me in a small liberal box, so let me clarify that the Republican Congress seems unlikely to impeach him unless the rest of his presidency his horrifying. But the situation is still ammo against him in 2020 unless he puts his assets into a blind trust or liquidates, even if he finds some legal loophole.
I argued before the election that Trump would be a better choice than Hillary simply because he can be impeached if he steps out of line, while Hillary thinks she is above the law and has been repeatedly proven right
Now this is just jackassary. Jackassly partisan enough to throw everything else he says into doubt. Maybe Hillary is a crook. Think Trump isn't? I mean seriously. Besides, with a Republican congress, it would be easier to impeach her than him if she thinks she's above the law or not. If I hallucinate that I'm above the law and rob the Seven-7, I'd still go to jail  with my delusion as company. Do yourself a favor and get off the right-wing blog and get other opinions. If you're gonna post articles like this, I might as well post from Daily Kos or Move On to get the same level of bias and idiocy.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-27, 17:40:24
...of course, Sang, a law professor's opinion on the law is idiocy -- if you don't agree with it! That's your criterion, and has been for as long as I've known you. :)
Now your goal is to stop Trump -- in 2020? Sigh. Four more years of your predictions. Oh, and polls!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-28, 12:49:10
I think what you have to realise midnight is that youth might be full of energy but common sense must also be the rule.

Why is democracy okay if people vote for liberal suggested mindsets but if you do not agree with such you are a pariah? Not very principled or frankly properly democratic thinking!. What if Hilary Clinton had won and all her supporters scoffed at Donald trump. That would have been a right? Whether someone is right, left or centre they have a right to that opinion and have to accept that in a free election principles of rights are the criteria.  As it happens right now it is the liberal thinking of Democrats (well partially0 that is moaning and going bananas and the legions of the youthful there get carried away with their emotions and not with common sense.  You had a election and dished out lots of stuff that did not make you much different from the other lot and now going ape because you lost?? Don't boast about democracy and how great a leader in it you are as there are other nations that follow that better and wider. Too much political immaturity has been shown by especially younger people.

You practiced the system during the course of the election but now going rather daft I am afraid because you lost!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-28, 15:44:28
if you don't agree with it!
No, if he shows he's blatantly biased
You had a election and dished out lots of stuff that did not make you much different from the other lot and now going ape because you lost??
No, because a lunatic won. Now he's ranting that "millions voted illegally" with zero evidence. And don't forget he said that if he lost it was voter fraud (although the ones caught doing that were trying to vote for him multiple times like idiots...) Oh and it's not even the Democrats that started the recounts, it was the Green Party that never had a chance of winning.

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-11-28, 16:16:46
The greatest problem with democracy is that any fool's opinion can be as valid as the solution very much needed. And the change we need never comes the way we want it. Shown how foolish the matters you deliberate over are, y'all still persist. 

If you have faith in the system you should be excited to learn if that faith is justified.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-28, 19:48:10
No, if he shows he's blatantly biased
You didn't even notice that I quoted from Prof. Adler and a commenter to his thread… :) Your definition of "blatantly biased" is what I called it.
No, because a lunatic won.
I'm pretty sure you meant to say "because my preferred lunatic didn't win"… :)
And, like I said, we're likely going to hear you whining for the next four years, at least.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-29, 03:16:01
If Trump has problems with ethics (which, in Washington, DC, seems all-but impossible — unless the other party reigns…) then Congress is empowered to deal with them.
As an example that Sang would never have thought of: Prior to the campaign, Trump had made overtures in Cuba; casinos and hotels being of particular interest to him. He's since castigated Obama's executive action re-opening "relations" with the Communist country… Indeed, he pledged to rescind the Obama administration's actions.
This would, of course, mean forgoing many substantial lucrative deals!
If Trump calls for the usual concessions from Cuba before normalizing relations with that country (…and rescinds Obama's executive order), I'll suspend most of my concerns about his robber baron personae… Will you, Sang? :)
If he doesn't, well — we could have got Hillary! :)
——————————————————————————————————————
Here's an interesting scenario, Sang: Petraeus is being considered (http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/11/28/report-trump-considering-controversial-obama-administration-official-for-secretary-of-state/) for Secretary of State!
(I still maintain that Petraeus was prosecuted, because he disagreed with POTUS…)

Who -in Congress- can object, considering Mrs. Clinton's, er, lapses? :) (Well, maybe Harry Reid: Who boasted that his lie about Romney's taxes made him lose the election! Because, of course, that's what Democrat politics is about: Winning! No matter how…) Well, consider: There aren't enough Dems… Not nowadays! (Of course, in California and New York there are! Are you calling for the elimination of the electoral college yet, Sang? Because only urban voters' votes count… :) )) [parse, Sang, parse…]
——————————————————————————————————————
You can chime in any time, Sang… Knowing that your usual shtick is what it is, you'll likely not. (You're waiting for "the usual suspects" to come up with a narrative… :) How else would you know what to say?)
That's what losing looks like! :)

How's your "safe space" working out for you…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-29, 20:43:35
Well now midnight I have to sigh as both sides - Clinton and Trump had some daftness about them. For someone with the experience of Clinton coming out with that utter guff about Russia involved in the election for example! Not one bit of evidence whatsoever apart from limited minds fooled by the corporate media. On your description on Trump if we follow that line up what is that saying about millions and millions of your fellow citizens then? People in various countries have got a wee bit fed up with the regular politicians and we can see that very plainly in who they are supporting in the populist corner. It is also why so many Americans went for the Sanders corner amongst others.

Yes Trump came out with that weird thing on the voting corruption whilst Clinton has supported that Green woman. Such is politics. On some passing points Trump has mellowed on pre-election guffaws so let us see what happens in practice eh? You had an election and the result is there so let us see?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-30, 07:16:43
You had an election and the result is there so let us see?
That's why there's evidence being gathered for impeachment if he proves to be a lunatic. Even the quote from Adler that Oakdale posted doesn't contradict the possibility that his business dealing with foreign governments could results in impeachment if necessary.  At least the constitution provides a means to remove would-be dictators and corrupt presidents.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-30, 08:02:24
You still refuse to see, Sang, that impeachment is a political remedy… Those who have little political power -like the Democrats nowadays- can't apply such a remedy, to achieve political power — which is, after all, what they and you want.
You misread the electorate. Even with the entire mainstream media and most of the polls in your camp, you still managed to lose the election.
Better luck next time! :) (Choose a better candidate… But you have a very shallow bench.)

Why is it, I ask you, that you always focus upon unfounded prediction and rumors and innuendo? Because that's how you roll! Your fantasies are what drive you…
Reality is but an obstacle!

And let's be serious: You don't in the least object to corrupt politicians and megalomaniacs…so long as they seem to agree with your peculiar views.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Sparta on 2016-11-30, 10:31:33
any impeachment act will be failed .
unless president trump piss off some republican .
then perhaps he will be impeachable .

on the other hand , political climate in the US is bad , very bad .
opposition party is the minority .

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-30, 10:58:47
You misread the electorate. Even with the entire mainstream media and most of the polls in your camp, you still managed to lose the election.
You're also failing to note many of Trump's victories were within the polling margin of error. Of course impeachment is political. Duh.

Having said that, a egregiously violates the constitution, Congress will be stuck with little choice. Time will tell if Trump actually violates the Emoluments Clause, still having until Jan 20 to make a decision. Maybe McGahn will tell tell him to put his assets in blind trust and he'll listen for once in his life. But there has to be point in a given president is objectively not obeying  the constitution and is committing "high crimes and misdemeanors."

I followed the a link in Adler's article to one by Zephyr Teachout [/quote]  She noted two historic examples of presidents being forced to give up emoluments and concludes:

(http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/11/17/would-trumps-foreign-business-ties-be-constitutional/trumps-foreign-business-ties-may-violate-the-constitution)
Quote
The sheer volume of Trump’s enterprises, and his role as a promoter in them, makes this a near-impossible task, as does the difficulty of defining which of the transactions falls within the prohibition, and which do not. But the Constitution is clear that Congress has an obligation to stand as a check on inappropriate foreign influence. Congressional leaders should be among the loudest voices demanding he liquidate his assets and create a true blind trust, because of the burden that the alternative poses.

The emoluments clause is not an arcane rule. It is a fundamental principle of our country.
  Despite the common opinion impeachment is all political, Trump could leave even a GOP dominated Congress no choice in the matter. This is gradually gaining traction already, with even conservative legal minds noting Trump could have a big problem with this.

If he fails to do the right thing, we'll find ourself staring past usual childish cries for impeachment if the president makes a policy we don't like, and straight at at him as he tears the constitution to shreds.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-30, 19:06:55
Chimpanzee?! all this is doing is showing what I said about elections and the end result has to be got on with. Both Trump and Clinton came out with some daft stuff and that matter of foreign interference being dished out by Clinton and which i a lie is head-shaking. Some of Trumps were equally mouthing but why did so many Americans fall in behind him even if outside the youthful antics or liberal school minds? He was touching on something that more and more people were getting fed up with in the control of the country and so many feeling out of things.

This Presidential Election was one of the worst you have had for an awful long time and both sides had things that were not very mature or sensible. What an actual poor choice people had over there because many sensible people were not Clinton fans and fell back on that old escape of the 'lesser of two evils.' On the other side growing numbers of especially the less comfortably off were in their way fed up with what passes as a system and Trump's highly separate political corner touched them. It does not solve the situation but it does show you have a very displaced fundamental system I am afraid.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-30, 22:44:24
Chimpanzee?!
Who's the chimpanzee? Trump? Clinton? The English?
I agree.

Well, let's remain politically correct, no chimpanzees.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-12-01, 01:28:34
They run Portugal.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-01, 05:26:23
I especially like the "fake news" meme… You know, where Hillary was 90%, 80%, 70% assured victory — according to the polls! :)

I'm sorry to say that I have to agree with RJ here: Russia did not interfere with our election(s)… Absence of evidence usually does imply evidence of absence.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2016-12-01, 08:13:52
I'm sorry to say that I have to agree with RJ here: Russia did not interfere with our election(s)…
At least Germany did by pouring millions of tax money into the Clinton foundation to help... Africa.  :whistle:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-01, 08:29:30
:) I can't comment…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-12-01, 18:50:36
 :faint:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-05, 21:39:22
Quote of the day: "the Democrats’ insane and suicidal jump down the rabbit hole of minoritarian politics is why they lost the election."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-12-20, 07:27:31
Quote
December 19, 2016

Donald J. Trump was confirmed as president-elect today by members of the Electoral College, winning at least 304 electoral votes. Texas put Trump over the top as it cast its vote after 5PM ET today. 304 is likely to be Trump's final number, as the three states yet to vote - California, Nevada and Hawaii - were won by Hillary Clinton on Election Day. Should those electors all vote as pledged, Clinton will end up with 228 votes.


(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.270towin.com%2Fuploads%2F1219vote_map131.png&hash=cf164eda90ed0d721d656132c0235d95" rel="cached" data-hash="cf164eda90ed0d721d656132c0235d95" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.270towin.com/uploads/1219vote_map131.png)


In the end, there wasn't a lot of drama in the vote. There were 6 faithless electors, however, including 4 in Washington and two in Texas. While a small number, this is the highest number of faithless electors for president since the 19th century. There were attempts by electors in Colorado, Maine and Minnesota to cast faithless votes, but these were disallowed.

Trump will be sworn in as the 45th president at noon on January 20, 2017.
Source:  270 TO WIN (link) (http://www.270towin.com/news/2016/12/19/donald-trump-confirmed-president-elect-by-electoral-college-winning-304-votes_436.html#.WFjaPOPafb0)     


The final count: (Donald Trump needed 270 to win)

TRUMP 304            Clinton 228     

Colin Powell 3    

John Kasich 1      Ron Paul 1     

Native American, Faith Spotted Eagle 1


Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-12-20, 07:33:04
In the end there was a ray of light for [glow=green,2,300]DemonRat Shillary "The HildaBeast" Clinton[/glow]..............
She resoundingly crushed Republican Colin Powell! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lolfun.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-12-20, 13:46:19
She resoundingly crushed Republican Colin Powell!

I thought that was kind of interesting. Clinton, or any other Democrat, would not be elected if the election was transferred to the (Republican) house. This means that Colin Powell is The Most Acceptable Republican For President among Democrats, at least these three Democrats. Wonder who would be The Most Acceptable Democrat among Republicans.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-12-20, 19:17:43
Glad to see Dr. Paul getting some love.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-12-20, 22:29:03
Trump has proven to be The Most Unacceptable Republican Among Democrats and Republicans.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-20, 23:57:46
:) Barulheira, you shouldn't take the New York Time's editorial page so seriously…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-12-21, 01:21:24
Dr Paul makes a pleasant change over there from the usual.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-21, 05:13:32
Dr Paul makes a pleasant change over there from the usual.
An unelectable, naive and particularly unaccomplished (…in politics!) candidate: The sort you Brits prefer! :) Your theme song is "Bring In The Clowns"…

Did Paul ever do anything to reign in the EPA (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443186/scott-pruitt-abolish-epa?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily%20Trending%20Email%20Reoccurring-%20Monday%20to%20Thursday%202016-12-20&utm_term=NR5PM%20Actives)? (Yes, I still -somewhat- blame Thatcher for the IPCC… :( )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-12-21, 09:28:42
An unelectable, naive and particularly unaccomplished (…in politics!) candidate: The sort you Brits prefer! :) Your theme song is "Bring In The Clowns"…
...says the guy who voted Trump.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-21, 09:35:22
Who won the election.

I know you don't like that result. But Putin wasn't running… :) And Hillary wasn't hardly!
Bet you still feel aggrieved, that Al Gore lost in 2000. Or Carter, in 1980!
Perhaps you would have preferred Humphrey, in the 1960s. But our nation chose Nixon. Go figure!

The idea that Russia "hacked" our election is ludicrous. The idea that people take such conspiracy theories seriously is disheartening.

The Dems seem to be deranged. I'd expected that. Still, that so many ostensible Americans (and Europeans) feel that way — well, that tells me that, indeed, the time has come for a sea-change…
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-12-21, 09:40:23
Yes, the clown won the election. Win-win! :D

(Just a reminder: Obama won twice before. Did it matter to you? No. So any election win should not matter to you now either. If you were consistent, that is.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-21, 09:58:30
You'd like your Nazi brothers, until… Nah! You're a nasty little propagandist. Who nobody pays attention to, anymore. Sorry 'bout that; lost your Soviet empire, eh?!
You don't like Trump? Who -in their right mind- would care, what you think? (You give no reasons, no arguments. You only repeat media memes… And, oh, say he's not a "nice" man. Well, sir, you're not either.) Run for election, somewhere!

Like Howie, who did run repeatedly, you'd be soundly defeated. Because that's what you do: Rage against the regime!

Nah. You're impotent, both of you. You've never figured out how to matter.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2016-12-21, 10:09:05
You don't like Trump?
I don't like Clinton either, male or female. Or Putin. Or the prez and govt of my own country. I like neither US, SU or EU. The thing is, like has nothing to do with it, but for you it's all that matters. That's somewhat of a difference between us.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-12-21, 20:58:03
And with that we can bring this 'glorious' thread to a close. [I hope.]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-12-22, 01:36:41
You are often funnier than you deliberately try to be OakdaleFTL! When it comes to democracy and elections and control freaks I doubt anywhere in the West could be funnier than what you poor saps are stuck with!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-12-22, 07:23:34
And with that we can bring this 'glorious' thread to a close. [I hope.]

There goes hoping. Maybe next year. We'll see which of this and that (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=2472.msg67373#new) will last the longest.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-22, 07:30:01
Without a doubt, music and humor at the level of Borge will outlast all political squabbles! As they should… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-12-25, 05:08:56
Ah music. think will go and listen to Wagner.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-25, 05:17:07
I well-remember the critic who quipped: "Wagner's music is nowhere as bad as it sounds…" :)
And I've always wondered: Was Beethoven already deaf, when he wrote Eroica?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-12-26, 02:48:59
Lot of classical music I like and on a lesser level once, sorry twice met my favourite pop singer Billy J Kramer who has lived in the ex-colonies for years with his wife, etc on Long Island. Anyway, I digress from classy music. As for the election I can understand in principle those who are miffed that their candidate Clinton did not win. But how can a country boast about being democratic and with a proper voting system then go daft?  No-one bothered their bums about the Electoral College thing until now. The other problem apart from wondering what Donald Trump will do is that for an awful lot of Americans they did not like Hilary Clinton either! There are things about her that are negative. There were also an awful lot of very lower down and traditional working class people who in the past voted Democrat but instead moved to Trump as they were fed up with being ignored.

The by far the greatest difficulty the American system has is that BOTH the big two are corporate leaning and many are getting fed up with gaps getting wider and much industry lost.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2016-12-27, 06:40:05
But how can a country boast about being democratic and with a proper voting system then go daft?  No-one bothered their bums about the Electoral College thing until now.

RJ.....as I've said before, I will say to you again.

The American Founding Fathers did not found a Democratic government.

They despised the thought of America being a "Democracy".

They found a Constitutional Republic, which is based on some Democratic Principals, but is definitely not a Democracy, never was....never will be.

Anyone who has been telling you otherwise........that America is a Democracy.........is completely wrong, & totally misleading you out of their own ignorance of American History.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFXuGIpsdE0[/VIDEO]


As far as an Electoral College........every Presidential Election since the late 18th Century, has been decided by the Electoral College.

Now, barring a Constitutional Amendment, all future Presidential Elections will continue to be decided by the Electoral College.

Why, because the United States of America is not a mobocracy (or Democracy as you call it....same thing) where 50% plus 1 vote rules the day, & the Minority always will, without rights, always be at the mercy of the Majority.....

No, decisions are accomplished via regulations/laws the Founding Fathers wrote into the Law of the Land to protect the Rights of the Minority...........The U.S. Constitution.........completely on purpose, & as a Constitutional Republic, the United States will be forever governed by the Law of the Land..........the United States Constitution............& not a Majority Rule, which would always be at the expense of the Rights of the Minority.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-12-28, 01:46:38
That is a passing excuse to try and lecture me as if I am out of kilter. Your "explanation" of being a constitutional republic is in the same corner as OakdaleFTL's view. The actual practical guff is something else.

By that I mean for boundless years Americans including politicians have belaboured being a great democracy (and yawn) the greatest in the world (baloney of course). This stuff has been standard and belaboured time after time. So does that mean mass numbers of the population are ignorant, uneducated or simply brained f nationalists? As for the election which for those of us living in democracies look like kindergarten mentality gatherings fully realised that when a party comes first it is the winner! However large numbers of Yankee Doodles went berserk. Those who boast about being liberal minded went daft at losing the damn  thing and it makes the country look even dafter on systems whatever the boasting folk over there might have.

Did we see the mass numbers who thronged to get carried away with the thought that Clinton would be President moan about the Electoral college thing? No we did not but now they do, haha. Brilliant! On the Republican side many who moaned that Trump was getting where he wanted and succeeded. For good or ill he touched an awful lot of Americans who were not doing well and were fed up with the DC carving up of the political establishment. What happened for the White House was a form of democracy and someone has to win and the other lose. i might thing the system is duff and millions ignored by it but you lot are tuck with it and we will now have to wait and see how Donald trump gets on. Clinton was going to go ape on Russia and be very confrontational on the world stage. Obama did not turn out as was proclaimed and as i pointed out killed more by drones and such than GW Bush that the democrats moaned about. I will for the moment skip the Cuban military basis matter (!). 

There were more from grey cell minds who did vote for Trump and an awful lot of bottom working class people who were as I argued traditional Democrats.  The corporates were well into Clinton's camp for all the guff she came out with trying to portray she wasn't in it! So America you had an election and voted and someone won and let us see what the new man does and accept that a sie lost and have to get on with it. If he messes up you can always do a Carter one term result!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-28, 04:41:15
Ooh, I like that, RJ! "If he goes 'full Carter'" he will only serve one term! :)
That is a passing excuse to try and lecture me as if I am out of kilter.
What RJ refers to is his own ignorance: He's heard that America is "for" democracy, and hence our representative republic must be more like — a constitutional monarchy — else we're less "democratic"…
But what he has never seemed to understand is what Smileyfaze has made plain many times (I have too!): He knows few words and doesn't care what they mean, specially in  context. (The very word is beyond his ken!)
Does he understand that his two runs for local office rejected his views, since he was rejected by the people who knew him best? Does he care? No: He thinks he's right and everybody else is wrong! Luckily, he's too old to try again… But he thinks everyone should try!
It's very democratic!
Hm. How many stupid people do we need in government?
I grant that Howie would not have had penury incentives… He'd have had the usual wonderful British civil service back-drop: He can -being of that age- rest easy.

But he won't last much longer: So, he doesn't care about future generations. He's a true Liberal!
Although he's occasionally mentioned that he did appreciate Maggie Thatcher… Methinks the boy talks out of both sides of his mouth…

Returning to the theme: How many stupid people do we need to govern us? By Howie's reasoning, as many as is possible…
Boy, that sure seems like a recipe for success! :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-12-28, 10:59:59
So... American political system is a non democratic system in order to assure minority rights which would be completely disrespected under a democratic system... brilliant.

However, not too much different from Hussein's regime protecting the sunite minority... or... Idi Amin Dada or Ceausescu or Papa Doc... the list of non democratic republics defending minorities is endless.

I've seen much better arguments for defending non democratic regimes.
It's obvious that concepts as political legitimacy are totally unknow at the vast American prairies.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-12-28, 11:37:34
However, not too much different from Hussein's regime protecting the sunite minority... or... Idi Amin Dada or Ceausescu or Papa Doc... the list of non democratic republics defending minorities is endless.
Except that Oakdale is lying through his teeth. It was because small states were concerned about getting lorded over the by the large one, racial and ethnic minorities (and women) be damned. The founding fathers didn't give a rat's flea-infested ass about minority rights (and many, if not most, owned slaves...)

The "America is republic not democracy" crowd also doesn't seem to understand what a modern democracy even is, or even that a being a democracy and a republic simultaneously is not a contradiction. I find being happy to simply call America a republic to be a dangerous line of thinking; some of the most horrific, murderous regimes the world has ever seen (some of which Belfrager mentioned for us) have been republics. But it is true that America is not completely a Democracy. If it was, Trump would have lost the election having recieved nearly three million less votes.[1] Even in Congress, small states (including Nevada) are over represented. However, America also has direct Democracy in the form of referendums.
But we'll see if the looney can make it four years without getting himself impeached. Right now, I'd place equal odds on that.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-29, 02:53:09
Except that Oakdale is lying through his teeth.
Translation: His liberal college professors disagreed with me: so, he does too! :)
It was because small states were concerned about getting lorded over the by the large one, racial and ethnic minorities (and women) be damned.
The "be damned" part is very Obama-esque! What he means is "The Times They [Were] A-changing"… (Does he rail against the Incas or the Egyptians for their practices? No; just our Founding Fathers…
The founding fathers didn't give a rat's flea-infested ass about minority rights (and many, if not most, owned slaves...)
As usual, he's factually wrong… Funny how that never seems to stop him from making his Liberal Democratic point: Old is bad! New is better. "The state is God; God is the state!" (Trotsky) But, of course, only the "right" people should be allowed to govern…
I find being happy to simply call America a republic to be a dangerous line of thinking; some of the most horrific, murderous regimes the world has ever seen (some of which Belfrager mentioned for us) have been republics.
By that reasoning, you should be arrested and jailed: Jeffry Dahmer was a homosexual! But he was also a homicidal maniac and a cannibal… These last two facts seem more important, to me.
(There's a well-known name for the formal fallacy — but I'll spare you the erudition: You're ineptly "profiling". But, of course, you have your reasons! And you think people don't know? :) )
But you "chooses your poison," don't you? :) You argue like a child; and you refuse to grow up.
Sobeit.
The "America is [a] republic not democracy" crowd also doesn't seem to understand what a modern democracy even  is […] Even in Congress, small states (including Nevada) are over represented.
The distinction seems to evade you, Sang. The "small" states are still states…
Can you give me some examples of "modern" democracies? :) And how they differ from un-modern ones…

Democracies commit suicide. If that's what you want, you go first… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-12-29, 03:34:53
Nobody Oakdale can talk better out th side of the mouth but a Yank. Your lot DO boast about being so democratic and top of the list. The way you lot are educated with flags everywhere and droning nationalism you charge me wrongly. I have always been a supporter of conservatism in GB but then our idea of conservatism is very, very much different from America's You studiously do a dance to avoid the hard truth that the average Joe over there is brained into the so-called democracy stuff and the constitutional republic thinking is not in the front of the mind at all.

One of the more yeuchy matters on the change from Obama to Trump is that trump is right up there with that neo-fascist Prime Minister of Israel. In fact that and his government are dictators and dangerous but trump all for them.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-29, 06:38:27
How's your PM May doing, by the way? :)
You still seem to think that Britain's opinion matters. As if you were still a world-power! But your example may bring down the EU… Other countries have problems, too.
When you say that "nobody can talk better out both sides of their mouth than a Yank" what you mean is simple: You still hold an (unexpressed) grudge against the U.S. — and you'll carry it to your grave. (Cold comfort, RJ. But if that's all you want, you're welcome to it.)
I did note, however, that your anti-Semitism has come back! Good for you, boy-o! Never let a prejudice die before you do!
Tradition (https://youtu.be/gRdfX7ut8gw)!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-12-30, 03:19:20
A grudge against a nutjobland?? I am glad that I don't live in the place although there are individual ex-colonists I have a lot of time for.  You lot have a general election and when one side loses all those young so-called educated young come out on the streets protesting and daft posters including 'he is not my President' and so on. You have a far bigger problem than anywhere else including here. our system is far wider represented than 2 corporate lots -yes two.

Oh and you can call me all the anti-Semtic stuff you want and kind of expected as Jews more or less control much of Wall Street and have great power in the country. Each time a President comes into office he goes and speaks to a national conference of Judaism which emphasises my point. As for Israel, i have no time for it at all. They can have a formal State but the Palestinians? Nope. May I remind that the Israeli Gestapo (Mossad) seeing you are a Yank!) stole British and Australian passports so they could send agents to elsewhere in the Middle East. Israel also builds on land stolen and gets away with it and they have always stuck a finger up to the UN and know will get away with it as America supports them and finances the damn place they live in. If the US did not do that the Jewish financial influencers in the ex-colonies would go daft. Obama's kick at Israel will be taken back when Trump goes in.

One outstanding thing about Trump on the positive is he does show more sense on Russia than Obama who has no legacy to talk about really. Utter tripe about another country influencing how people vote?!  No evidence just nothing but so many Yanks are so simple minded they just swallow anything because they were brought up in the days of the Cold war. America is making itself a laughing stock to the world at large on the stupidity and head-shaking baloney on saying Russia effected the election. And the nonsense coming from a big-headed nation that has for decades interfered with other countries and elections and so on. That a sizeable number over in your corner automatically believe the Russia nonsense and not a bit of evidence is a terrible indictment.

So call me what you like Oaky I will not change on the poor democracy in America that is failing so many basic and decent people nor will I be frightened off my stance on arrogant Israel. You lot created the mess and just to put another boot in I would say that Russia will continue to play a bigger part in the world and good for it while your country continues to practice political hypocrisy.

ps. When you fall apart I have 2 spare bedrooms...... :sing:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-31, 04:33:10
Hey, guys (…are there any girls left, here? :( ): What do you think the chances are that President Obama pardons "Chelsea" Manning and Richard Snowden?
I wonder what the chances are (…it's never been litigated) that Trump trumps Obama's trump? :)

(Don't get me started on the Bergdahl case…)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-12-31, 06:36:03
I think what Obama is doing in his last weeks is typical of the man and he will leave no impressive history behind .At one point he prattles on when Trump visited him in the White house then comes out with this anti-Russian guff. When he goes whatever Trump does Obama will be no great loss.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2016-12-31, 07:07:43
0 and 0.

And huh?

Chance that Putin hands over Snowden to Trump (who in typical fashion has tweeted that Snowden should be killed and not be killed): bigger than 0, less than 50/50.

Chance that Snowden gets Icelandic citizenship: Same.

Would it matter: Unlikely

Chance of a fair trial in the US: bigger than 0, less than 50/50.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-31, 07:46:13
When you say a "fair trial," jax, you of course mean that he shouldn't pay for his crimes… Sweden (or any other Scandinavian country; heck, Russia can keep him! is welcome to him. Iceland? Sure. Let them have him!) if he doesn't want to face a jury. But I suppose he's a whistle-blower — so, shouldn't we exonerate Russia herself, even if they're found to be culpable? :)
Snowden is at best a troll, at worst a traitor. (You'll disagree…) Do I care about him? No.
I care that our NSA allowed him to do what he did! Uncon-f'king- scionable … But, now, he's a celebrity!

That's our modern world. (Which may change, by the way… :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-12-31, 23:03:03
If people came on to this forum who re new they would wonder about OakdaleFTL. I don't he is a sad reflection of too much nutjobland instead of common sense! When nothing funny on tv I can depend on him so maybe one accolade there? Well folks it is nice to be fair..... :sing:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-31, 23:14:06
Your idea of "common sense" is decline until you're gone… Our "nutjobland" will long outlast others. (That's what Khrushchev meant when he pounded his shoe on the table at the UN proclaiming "We will bury you!" :) It wasn't a threat; it was a prediction, which failed.)
At any rate, let's hope this thread expires on January 20… :) Then we go on to jabbering about the 2020 Presidential Election!
I'm sure Midnight Raccoon already has his "predictions" ready!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-01-02, 03:46:11
You are probably right about this thread going on too long. The damn circus is over and whether some Yanks like it or not that IS the case.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-01-02, 05:17:14
Ah! But nothing ever really dies, on the internet!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-01-03, 02:32:08
Time for a precedent and it was mainly an entertainment than anything too politically enhancing.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2017-01-03, 14:30:24
(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15726245_1611191535558485_25087853411877083_n.png?oh=ab123613993c7cc8945e7ab5225f7269&oe=58EAF90A)

The trouble with this photo is that Trump voters aren't self aware enough to understand this.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-01-03, 22:52:41
In other words, committed progressives still think they're hokey propaganda will work… :) (It will for people like Sang; that's all he's got!) Psst! Hillary lost the election…
I ask again: Who's your preferred candidate for 2020?

BTW: How do feel about your new "national monument"? (I understand Utah is more than a little miffed over Bear Ears, a 1.3 million acre usurpation… :(  )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2017-01-04, 04:00:01


There be a new Sheriff in town!

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxZbrcZttis[/VIDEO]
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-01-05, 07:42:32
Enjoyable video, SF! (Hey, RJ: You watch videos… What did you think of this one? Oh: Didn't denigrate the Jews or Americans… Tuned out early, did you? One wonders why…

Just to rub it in: Hey, Sang. Hillary lost! Again I ask: Who's your next candidate…?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2017-02-01, 15:28:25
How Tyranny begins via media manipulation

Four Techniques 45 is already employing

- Berate the media and turn the public against it
- Limit media access
- Threaten the media
- Bypass the media



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_anu-feuKE[/VIDEO]

I've also noted that the media is being called an opposition party. For what? Telling what 45 actually did? I also find it brilliant that people attack the "MSM" while relying on more dubious sources of information such as random "fake news" articles that show on Facebook and random blogs written by people that have zero accountability to journalistic standards (or in Oakdale's case, a counter-factual blog written by a member of a fascist party, quit literal ideological fascists not a prejorative.)  In short, actual news is being scorned while propoganda becomes the main "information" source. The result is a president acting like a tyrant from the word go, an imcompetent one at that.
Title: Media manipulation
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-02-01, 16:11:50
Nah! "Alternative facts" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_facts) was surely just a joke. :lol:
No?  :)  ???  :eyes:  :left:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2017-02-01, 18:04:39
She was bullshitting, often the most efficient method of disinformation.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2017-02-01, 19:19:10
Secret Docs Reveal: President Trump Has Inherited an FBI With Vast Hidden Powers (https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/secret-docs-reveal-president-trump-has-inherited-an-fbi-with-vast-hidden-powers/)

Quote
One of the more unusual aspects of the 2016 election, perhaps the one that will prove to be most consequential, was the covert political war waged between the CIA and FBI. While the top echelon of the CIA community was vehemently pro-Clinton, certain factions within the FBI were aggressively supportive of Trump.

Add 'the great job' of the 'free media' aka mainstream, whose critical comments towards past administrations I was missing during the last decade... (1.4 trillions spent on wars during the last three decades to 'save humanity' from whatever.)

So it's no wonder that the only two viable candidades left for the US presidency, were H.Clinton and D.Trump.
Two very charming choices, wherefrom the dear electorate had the great pleasure to choose from. ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-02-01, 22:48:47
Greenwald still thinks of himself as a journalist? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-02-02, 03:03:35
Tillerson confirmed as SecState.
This actually surprised me… I'd have thought his was the most controversial nomination.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2017-02-02, 04:27:39
Tillerson confirmed as SecState.
This actually surprised me… I'd have thought his was the most controversial nomination.

Any thoughts?
Seriously, what about any of Trump's actions can surprise one? The guy is a political nobody. He has two ways of filling posts: Roll the dice or listen to the suggestions of someone who pretends to know better.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-02-02, 04:33:18
So, no thoughts then… :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2017-02-02, 06:05:16
A glance at Trump makes it clear that he merits no thought. If you understand that he's an egotistic ruffian, he ceases to be surprising too.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-02-02, 06:47:22
You're an unserious person, ersi. Hibernate for a decade or two… Maybe the Soviet Union will come back! :) Propaganda was your job, was it not, before your country was freed from the Soviet sphere? Why -considering that you don't say anything other than what the "echo chamber" puts out- should anyone take your slight derogatory comments seriously?
Trump is the president of the United States. You are…what? :)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2017-02-02, 07:21:13
The guy is a political nobody. He has two ways of filling posts: Roll the dice or listen to the suggestions of someone who pretends to know better.
That's a huge difference compared to Obama. :)
Obama had no need for rolling the dice. 'Recommendations' for his team came directly from Wall Street (Citigroup)...
So Obama's team was basically ready to take office even before the last ballot was casted.

BTW, you probably know the phrase: Noblesse Oblige. ;)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2017-02-02, 07:38:03
That's a huge difference compared to Obama. :)
Obama had no need for rolling the dice. 'Recommendations' for his team came directly from Wall Street (Citigroup)...
Are you saying that Obama's appointments catered to the establishment and the elite? That's true. But are you saying that Trump and his nominations are neither of that? Look, even though Trump is just rolling the dice, his available sample consists exclusively of the establishment and the elite. Name a nomination that wasn't.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2017-02-02, 08:01:52
Propaganda was your job, was it not, before your country was freed from the Soviet sphere?
Let's get the facts straight. During Soviet Union I held no (paid) jobs. I was a schoolboy. Post Soviet Union I graduated and was a civil servant up to the point when it was suggested to me that (EU, not SU!) propaganda was supposedly among my tasks. Then I went over to the private sector.

Now try again and don't mess up, if you have or had a point to make. I expect none, but it's fair to give you a chance to sober up and try again. I'm liberal like that.
Title: The president of the United States
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-02-02, 10:29:56
Trump is the president of the United States.
:lol:
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2017-02-02, 18:28:23
Any respect that may or may not be afforded to the US of A will not be extended to Donald Trump. He's nearly a laugh, but he's really a cry.

https://youtu.be/PU9RmjMLdIk

(That concert too was attended by more people than the Trump inauguration.)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2017-02-02, 20:00:49
Colored revolutions coming home?  :whistle:
Title: Laugh and cry
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-02-02, 20:09:07
Any respect that may or may not be afforded to the US of A will not be extended to Donald Trump. He's nearly a laugh, but he's really a cry.
The problem is: they elected him.
Title: Re: Laugh and cry
Post by: krake on 2017-02-02, 20:22:34
The problem is: they elected him.
The even bigger problem IMHO: they only had the choice between Hillary and Donald...
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2017-02-02, 22:25:43
Same thing. They elected him. They didn't elect Clinton or any from the Republican field. Mind you, Europeans have elected many miserable politicians over the years, but not that miserable in modern times.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2017-02-03, 07:24:06
Same thing. They elected him. They didn't elect Clinton ...
Mind you, I wouldn't have elected Clinton myself if I were American.

BTW,
Any respect that may or may not be afforded to the US of A will not be extended to Donald Trump.
Was your respect afforded to the US of A extended to G.W.Bush? Was it to Obama? Would it have been to Hillary?  :left:

Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-02-03, 08:08:19
Europeans have elected many miserable politicians over the years, but not that miserable in modern times.
You're assuming that time has stopped…! :) A frequent European position.

I'll note that no European has a problem continuing this thread, although the election was decided in November of last year. (Sure, you can skinny out of this complaint by referring to the "ongoing saga" bit. That's how the Middle Eastern Arab countries still complain about the Crusades… :) )

Of course, our "democrats" don't think so: For them, an election is only ever over when they win! :) (Ooh! That sounds much like the Middle Eastern Arab countries still complaining about the Crusades!)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: ersi on 2017-02-03, 08:18:26
(Sure, you can skinny out of this complaint by referring to the "ongoing saga" bit. That's how the Middle Eastern Arab countries still complain about the Crusades… :) )
You're assuming that time has stopped. A frequent American position.

From the Middle Eastern perspective, crusades are ongoing, colonisation is in fresh memory and bombs are falling from Nato and Russian airplanes as we speak. But the American perspective is to have an ideology that ignores this and then "negotiate from the position of power".
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: jax on 2017-02-03, 08:41:10
A curious thing about American presidents, at least in modern times, there were some earlier characters, is that they are consistently more responsible than the Congress, no matter respective party affiliation. This is broken now.

Many things are blamed on the president/administration that they have little or no influence on, but there is enough that they do.

The best that can be said about the current administration is that it has been a uniting force. It has united the authoritan far right and the authoritan far left, and seems slated to unite the rest of the world against them. They have set a direction, the course remains to be seen.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-02-03, 10:30:09
You're assuming that time has stopped. A frequent American position.
Perhaps they should look up "opposition".
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2017-02-03, 10:58:59
The best that can be said about the current administration is that it has been a uniting force. It has united the authoritan far right and the authoritan far left, ...
Wonder to which category you'd add him (http://crooksandliars.com/files/primary_image/16/10/john-mccain1.jpg), since he seems to be left out. :)
Radical-right? Radical-left? Moderate-(whatever)?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2017-02-03, 12:01:40
Of course, our "democrats" don't think so: For them, an election is only ever over when they win!
Aww, what's the matter? Wanna discuss Democrats instead of addressing the fact that Trump is managing do even worse than feared? Now the lunatic is picking fights with one of America's staunchest strategic allies. What the hell is the matter with this guy?
It has united the authoritan far right and the authoritan far left, and seems slated to unite the rest of the world against them.
He has united the Left of center in America, not neccasarily authoriatarians (he has positioned himself into that role.) Don't be surprised if Trump's victory turns out to be the best thing to have happened to the Democratic party in years, if not decades if only they can learn to reconnect to rural and suburban counties in places such as midwest.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2017-02-03, 12:26:12
Oh wow. Now I need to pull a Howie. The telly was on in the other room and I just Trump berate Arnold Schwarzenegger over the new Celebrity Apprentice. So Der Arnold suggested that he and Trump switch jobs so "people can sleep comfortably again." :lol:  I'm in. Let's amend the constitution to let that happen :knight: If not, maybe we can convince Trump to surrender to the queen on his UK trip and see if she'll take us back. Being colonies again is a better fate than having this assclown complete his destruction of our country :lol: :p

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15036220_1800391033517224_8285957199241221383_n.jpg?oh=b118b3338bf39772a9729c9061f19f14&oe=5913EA23)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-02-03, 13:29:23
Here he is on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/827169996866347008

Schwarzenegger knows what liberal ("conservative" in American) actually means, maybe because he's European. Trump certainly isn't one.
Title: Alternatives for Trump
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-02-03, 14:16:12
Being colonies again is a better fate than having this assclown complete his destruction of our country :lol:
A piece of excrement would yield a better President of the United States than him. (I'm not exaggerating...)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2017-02-03, 15:03:36
Oh, Kellyanne Conway is making up "the Bowling Green Massacre" and further lied that Obama had a Muslim ban because many had been radicalized by the incident.

Bowling Green is a college town in Kentucky. There was a massacre of sorts in Bowling Green, when the college's (American) football team lost to Ohio State 10 - 77. It must have been carnage on the playing field. Oh the humanity! But no, Obama did not have a ban. He did delay the processing of refugees so they could be more throughly vetted, but he had nothing like Trump's executive order.

Is there anything resembling honesty or sanity coming from the Trump White House? I think not. After all, Kellyanne did coin the term "alternative facts" to excuse the complete bullshit coming from this regime.
A piece of excrement would yield a better President of the United States than him. (I'm not exaggerating...)
I thought he was a piece of shit? :confused:
Title: Run, baby! Run!
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-02-03, 16:07:57
Unfortunately not.  :lol:
In 4 years, Trump is going to run against a piece of shit.
You better vote for the piece of shit. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/big%20laugh%20007.gif)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-02-03, 23:08:27
Aww, what's the matter? Wanna discuss Democrats instead of addressing the fact that Trump is managing do even worse than feared?
I don't see Trump doing "even worse than feared," Sang… I see him doing what he said he'd do during the campaign. And I see the Democrats, specially those in the Senate, losing their collective minds. :)
Now the lunatic is picking fights with one of America's staunchest strategic allies. What the hell is the matter with this guy?
Obama made the back-door immigration deal with Australia, and left it as a parting gift for President Trump.
Trump says he'll honor the deal, but won't pursue such silliness himself. That's not exactly picking a fight…

BTW: Good luck with that amending the constitution thing. If you can't win the presidency you surely can't convince three quarters of the states to support your hurt feelings…
Arnie and the Donald appear to be sharing a friendly joke. It's a guy thing!
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2017-02-04, 03:49:31
Trump says he'll honor the deal, but won't pursue such silliness himself.
That's the  news from a few days ago. Right now even the Australian government isn't sure that he will honor it. Why's it such a bad deal? One of the central American refugees could turn out to be attached to a drug cartel or something. There's nothing about the either set of refugees that makes one worse than the other, if you look at it objectively and not through the eyes of Islamaphobia. Besides, what says we would actually have to keep them? Out the refugees in a clean camp while they're vetted and deport the ones that are criminals.
I don't see Trump doing "even worse than feared," Sang... I see him doing what he said he'd do during the campaign.
Then open your eyes.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-02-04, 08:09:08
Dobbin, I won't wear your blinders… :)

You can read about the wonderful Obama administration deal (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/02/02/what-us-australia-refugee-deal-trump-trashed-all/97396926/) here. Plenty of room for outrage, from every perspective…
But, of course, Trump is reprehensible! :)

(BTW: The article very carefully fails to mention that the sexual abuse was almost entirely among the "refugees"… Oops!)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2017-02-04, 16:01:15
It still fails to mention why those refugees are any worse than the Central American ones. But that's not even the issue. Why did he behave like a 5 year old to the Australian PM. If he didn't want the deal, there are intelligent ways to discuss it, not hanging up like spoiled child and bad mouthing the leader of a major US ally in the region. Get it? I don't know if it was a good deal or not, but it's Trump's childish behavior that's a problem.

BTW, if you get 1200 white Americans together would be surprising to find sex abusers among them too? Get real. Or did you want to make this thread about the refugees, lacking any good defense of Trump's moronic and impulsive behavior?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-02-05, 03:18:15
there are intelligent ways to discuss it, not hanging up like spoiled child and bad mouthing the leader of a major US ally in the region. Get it? I
I'm sorry, Sang, I'm not on permanent duty looking for Trump gaffes… What did he do?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2017-02-05, 16:01:14
He was on the phone with the Australian PM, Malcolm Turnbull, discussing the deal. Then he got mad and hung up on the PM. He then proceeded rant about it was his worse call. After this he want on Twitter and ranted about "a dumb deal" , continuing his tradition of non sensible Twitter rants. He further ranted that Australia was trying to unload "thousands" of Boston bombers. 1250 is not thousands. This also implies that all Muslims are terrorists. I'm not a fan of Islam myself, but trying to call all the refugees terrorists is just stupid and can serve as propaganda to recruit more ISIS terrorists, by showing a prejuidical attitude toward Muslims.

There are far better ways to handle the situation. This is what one would expect out of a child (or maybe the behavior of the "President" of a banana republic.), instead of the President of the United States. In addition, Trump said he would study the deal, leaving open the possiblity that he would he would break it. This is part of way nobody really knows if he'll honor it or not.  Please understand the problem is Trump is not the R by his name, but how he acts like a complete buffoon on the world stage. If he continues like this, he won't win America more respect but the opposite. Anyway, that's the brief version. The complete story as well the ramification of his behavior is readily available via Google.

Again, though I'm not understanding how accepting the Central American refugees instead of the Muslim ones is any better; it seems the the odds of one them joining a gang and/or becoming a drug dealer (or whatever) is more than one of the Muslims being a terrorist. And again, just put the Muslim refugees in a camp and take the time to vet them and deport the ones that are likely to be/become criminals r terrorists. So what exactly is the problem that Trump needs to behave like petulant child?
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-02-05, 18:39:07
You don't see Obama's hand in this? :)
Apparently, the Australians don't want the Muslim refugees that came to their shore... But that great humanitarian Obama said, Sure, we'll take them! After my term ends.

So, now you're okay with refugee camps, Sang? And how do you figure we can vet them? X-rays? :)

I assume you weren't privy to the actual phone call... But you know more about it than the Aussie PM himself? (see here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4192780/Malcolm-Turnbull-speaks-phone-call-Donald-Trump.html)for a more accurate report -- or stick to the SNL version)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2017-02-07, 13:49:03
This is your response? Seriously? You know, this is my fault for expecting you to more than a gaslit Trumppet (Trump Puppet) and thinking you'll read what I wrote for understanding. The DM is a more accurate account? Are you serious? It's a supermarket tabloid. So respected news outlets are wrong, but supermarket tabloids are right? I guess that makes sense in the era of "alternative facts."
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-02-07, 21:27:01
The Daily Mail interviewed the Australian PM… :) Your "respected news outlets" didn't.
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-02-10, 04:21:55
Alexander Hamilton said: "Its propriety having been drawn into question by the adversaries of that plan, is no light symptom of the rage for objection, which disorders their imaginations and judgments."
What was he talking about? Hm.
But, later, he says:
Quote
[…] it is not with a view to infractions of the Constitution only, that the independence of the judges may be an essential safeguard against the effects of occasional ill humors in the society. These sometimes extend no farther than to the injury of the private rights of particular classes of citizens, by unjust and partial laws. Here also the firmness of the judicial magistracy is of vast importance in mitigating the severity and confining the operation of such laws. It not only serves to moderate the immediate mischiefs of those which may have been passed, but it operates as a check upon the legislative body in passing them; who, perceiving that obstacles to the success of iniquitous intention are to be expected from the scruples of the courts, are in a manner compelled, by the very motives of the injustice they meditate, to qualify their attempts. This is a circumstance calculated to have more influence upon the character of our governments, than but few may be aware of. The benefits of the integrity and moderation of the judiciary have already been felt in more States than one; and though they may have displeased those whose sinister expectations they may have disappointed, they must have commanded the esteem and applause of all the virtuous and disinterested. Considerate men, of every description, ought to prize whatever will tend to beget or fortify that temper in the courts: as no man can be sure that he may not be to-morrow the victim of a spirit of injustice, by which he may be a gainer to-day. And every man must now feel, that the inevitable tendency of such a spirit is to sap the foundations of public and private confidence, and to introduce in its stead universal distrust and distress.
Gorsuch's nomination reflects this opposite spirit.
He's what a judge (in the American spirit) should be…
Both President Trump and nominee Gorsuch have been quoted recently.
Trump called a circuit court judge a "so-called" judge. Gorsuch said that recent remarks about courts and justices are… Well, Richard Blumenthal, a Connecticut Democrat who met privately with Gorsuch earlier this week, told CNN's Anderson Cooper Thursday that he encouraged him to publicly share his condemnation of Trump's recent verbal attacks on federal judges, which Blumenthal, quoting Gorsuch, said were "demoralizing" and "disheartening."

Might Gorsuch have meant that judges behaving as if they were legislators prompted some criticism? That their behavior was demoralizing and disheartening"?
BTW: When is Blumenthal up for re-election? :)

The controversy is Trump's EO about immigrants and visas… The "judge" in Seattle failed, in his opinion, to state either a rationale for the two states that sued to show standing or for irreparable harm ensuing. This is opposed to the black-letter law that gives the president the power to do what he did.
Trump seems to be smarter than the Progressives… (Or -should I say- the Progressives seem to be dumber than Trump? :) )
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2017-02-18, 13:24:56
Australians don't want the Muslim refugees
"Muslim Americans, in both raw terms and as a percentage of size of their total community, commit very small numbers of killings.

By contrast, roughly 11,000 Americans were killed in gun homicides in 2016 — yet Trump has never said anything about creating a registry of gun owners.

“It is flatly untrue that America is deeply threatened by violent extremism by Muslim-Americans,” David Schanzer, director of the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security, said in a statement accompanying the study’s release. “Attacks by Muslims accounted for only one third of one percent of all murders in America last year.”"
http://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/27/14412420/terrorism-muslims-america-islam-trump (http://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/27/14412420/terrorism-muslims-america-islam-trump)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2017-02-18, 14:01:44
Some of you might enjoy this quick take by an observer of American politics, Mark Shields.
https://www.arcamax.com/politics/fromtheleft/markshields/s-1928097?ezine=317 (https://www.arcamax.com/politics/fromtheleft/markshields/s-1928097?ezine=317)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2017-02-18, 16:00:17
(https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/cache/lw600/151/15138/1513821.jpg)
Title: Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga
Post by: krake on 2017-02-18, 19:57:01
Some of you might enjoy this quick take by an observer of American politics, Mark Shields.
https://www.arcamax.com/politics/fromtheleft/markshields/s-1928097?ezine=317 (https://www.arcamax.com/politics/fromtheleft/markshields/s-1928097?ezine=317)
Quote
"We are going to do a terrible thing to you. We are going to deprive you of an enemy." He was right. Without the concrete threat of the Soviet Union, U.S. national policy would indeed lose both its organizing principle and its national consensus.
Georgy Arbatov spoke too soon...