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Topic: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia (Read 96393 times)

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #175 –
Well passingly in Scotland we had an 84.6% turnout so not too far off 90% which few places in the ex-colonies can beat and don't get too envious there Sanguinemoon! A referendum inNorth Kosovo in the small Serbian area was up in the 90's  but there is something you simply shut you eyes to because it does not suit your argument.

Crimea was Russian! It was dumped into Ukraine by the Soviet dictator and the people had not asked for that had they? Small wonder then when your thug pals took over Kiev they made a point of not including the east nor Crimea in anything . Small wonder the majority in Crimea wanted to be back home where they more felt they belonged. Is there something wrong with that from a fan of the so-called rights, freedoms your country falsely preaches? Your lot simply went all for the Albanians in the Kosovo region of Serbia to go because Serbia was a pal of Russia and not you. Kind of odd principles you practice and the nerve of attacking someone else! This two-faced attitude is alive and well in your own country. Jst imagine anyone building up a movement in a State and pushing for an independence referendum and you will see how ludicrous democracy is over the pond.

Kosovo was gradually taken over by people who over a long time had deserted their native Albania then took the province away from Serbia so that is okay. Crimea wanted to go back to where it used to be and would feel happier but they are wrong. You have no logic I am afraid in the matter of referendums unless they are approved by the US and if not somehow that isn't democratic? Dear, oh dear.
"Quit you like men:be strong"
 

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #176 –
Quote from: Sanguinemoon on

Quote from: krake on
The US had to keep troops in Europe? Why? Because it was asked to do so? Out of American generosity?

Because the Soviet  Union took Eastern Europe and established puppet governments in the region. Geez and they say Americans are bad at history. :faint: The Soviets were afraid Germany would rise again and wanted buffer states


You are still missing to answer my questions: Why? Because it was asked to do so? Out of American generosity?

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on

Quote from: krake on
No government of those countries dares to disolve them unilaterally.

How many actually want to?


What a silly question!
Can you imagine an US government wanting German or Japanese military bases enhanced with electronic espionage facilities on US territory?
How stupid you think the rest of the world is?

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on

If you know nothing else about Obama, know he is not a cold warrior. He has ideas to improve America (education, equality for LGBT people, spend less a proportion of GDP on the military, etc.


You're right. I know little about Obama and care even less. All I know is that your dear 'Peace' President managed to bomb seven countries in six years.
For a 'Peace' President this is an awesome record in mankind's history.
However there are chances that the next US President will overtrump even this outstanding record.

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on

show me any election or referendum that 97 percent of voters agree on something and I'll show you amateurishly conducted electoral fraud. ... Do you get it yet? The problem isn't that the result was "yes" but the "yes" to "no" ratio, especially in region where you have a sizable minority (the Tartars) that are diametrically opposed to Russian rule.


WTF? 65% or 100%, it's irrelevant. It's a vast majority anyway. If you do respect the will of a vast majority than you will have to accept this one too. Get over it. If you can't, you can keep barking along, using the same rhetoric your government & media does.

BTW, the 97 percent came from the people who have voted. Most Tartars kept away from the ballots.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #177 –
Quote from: krake on
The US had to keep troops in Europe? Why? Because it was asked to do so? Out of American generosity?
Don't expect that the world looks through the same white washed US made glasses, you do.

Yes, we damn well asked. We had just been occupied by Nazi Germany and the Red Army was in Berlin. That's why we signed the Treaty of Brussels and then expanded it to create NATO because we wanted the US in as well. If anything it's the US that got the worse end of the deal.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #178 –
Quote from: krake on
WTF? 65% or 100%, it's irrelevant. It's a vast majority anyway.

65% is an insufficient majority to change the constitution in most countries, so the difference matters quite a bit.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #180 –
Quote from: krake on
Because it was asked to do so?
Yes. Do they teach history in your country?

Quote from: krake on
WTF? 65% or 100%, it's irrelevant. It's a vast majority anyway.

A lot. If the vote is fraudulent, the entire thing is invalid. And,as Frenzi said, 65% is usually not enough to change the constitution anyway. From the demographics of Crimea , an honest vote might not have even gotten that. You can't change a constitution on 58%, because next year or the year after it could will be 48% :p This is not the type of thing you do on a whim.
Quote from: krake on
All I know is that your dear 'Peace' President managed to bomb seven countries in six years.

Did I say he was a peace president? He is far more concerned about domestic policy. But you offer not source for the bombings. Was he bombing, say, an ISIS camp in country as opposed to the country itself? He did inherit war in Afghanistan and Iraq from his predecessor. Just because the president changes doesn't mean the war automatically goes away. Since in your anti-Americanism you failed to provide a source, here's one . Yup, most of the time he didn't actually bomb the country but ISIS or Al Qaeda that happened to be in the country. What anti-America propaganda source do you and Howie get your misinformation from?

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #182 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

Yes, we damn well asked. We had just been occupied by Nazi Germany and the Red Army was in Berlin. That's why we signed the Treaty of Brussels and then expanded it to create NATO because we wanted the US in as well. If anything it's the US that got the worse end of the deal.


Please don't mix things up deliberately.
I hardly can believe that your country asked for foreign military bases of which it had absolutely no contol over.
At least the link you are providing doesn't mention such things.

I'm speaking about some US military bases under exclusive US control. Our only involvement is to finance them!

Quote from: Frenzie on

65% is an insufficient majority to change the constitution in most countries, so the difference matters quite a bit.

Are you kidding? Which constitution are you referring to? A Crimean constitution that has to be aproved first by Kiev?
If you are referring to the constitution of the Ukraine, that one was already violated when armed rebels hijacked the Maidan protests and took over the power ignoring the negociated agreemant made between representatives of the Maidan and EU representatives.

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on

Yup, most of the time he didn't actually bomb the country but ISIS or Al Qaeda that happened to be in the country.


Or children and women which happened to be in the area. I'm not even talking about inocent men since every man at military age who was killed is conform US definition automatically also a hostile combatant.
As for the countries listed in the article you mention, in most of them the fire was set up by the US. I hope you are able to find sources on your own for that.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #183 –
Quote from: krake on
Please don't mix things up deliberately.
I hardly can believe that your country asked for foreign military bases of which it had absolutely no contol over.
At least the link you are providing doesn't mention such things.

I'm speaking about some US military bases under exclusive US control. Our only involvement is to finance them!

I have absolutely no idea what you're on about. Apparently when you say "Europe" you mean something more like "Germany". I don't think that makes me the one to mix things up. And speaking of Germany, they're closing up several US military bases this very year and they've been doing so every year since the end of the Cold War.

Quote from: krake on
Are you kidding? Which constitution are you referring to?

Um, "the constitution in most countries"? I'm not sure how to put it any clearer than that.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #184 –
I'm against closing military bases.
Let our American friends pay for local economy all over the world, that's what all those bases serves for, atomic intercontinental missiles are the only thing that counts. Have them and you're a player, don't and you do not exist.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #185 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

I have absolutely no idea what you're on about. Apparently when you say "Europe" you mean something more like "Germany". I don't think that makes me the one to mix things up.

When I speak about US military bases then I mean US military bases and not NATO facilities or other joint facilities.
As for Germany it happens to be in Europe.

Quote from: Frenzie on

Um, "the constitution in most countries"? I'm not sure how to put it any clearer than that.

If we are speaking about Crimea it makes little sense to refer to the constitution of Tuvalu or that of other countries.
The constitutions of other countries have little or more precisely nothing in common with the constitution Crimea had.
Therefore it was irrelevant if 65% or 100%  had voted for secession. Kiev wouldn't have allowed it anyway.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #186 –
Quote from: Belfrager on

I'm against closing military bases.
Let our American friends pay for local economy all over the world, that's what all those bases serves for, atomic intercontinental missiles are the only thing that counts. Have them and you're a player, don't and you do not exist.


I can't tell for Portugal but the military bases of our American friends in Germany are financed by local tax payers.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #187 –
Getting back to "Putin's Russia," this just in:
Quote
Moscow (AFP) - Russian President Vladimir Putin announced Friday he was cutting his salary by 10 percent as well as the earnings of several top government officials, as the country's economy reels from the collapse of the ruble.


Does anybody here understand the old saying? "In a pig's ass!"
Quote
Sitting on a hill inside Spain’s most exclusive private estate, it is just the sort of mansion fitting for a king... or Russian president.
So, it is no surprise to learn that the president of Russia has apparently acquired the purchase of this £15 million palace project in the heart of Zagaleta estate, near Marbella.
The 4,000m² villa is being built on order for President Putin within metres of homes owned by Rod Stewart and the former mayor of Moscow.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #188 –
Quote from: krake on
Or children and women which happened to be in the area

Because it's so much better to let ISIS and Al-Qaeda do and establish an Islamic dictatorship, huh?

This is from October, so the numbers are higher now.

Quote
Last Thursday, the United Nations released a report that could provide us with one of the keys to defeating ISIS. Unfortunately, it received almost zero media attention.

What makes this 26-page report (PDF) so powerful is that it describes to us the gruesome circumstances in which ISIS has killed fellow Muslims. We are talking beheadings, killing of women for objecting to ISIS’ policies, and executing Sunni Muslim clerics for refusing to swear allegiance to ISIS.
All of which are preferable outcomes than bombing an ISIS camp, aren't they :p

Quote
What did the UN find? ISIS had “carried out attacks deliberately and systematically targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure, with the intention of killing and wounding civilians.” The UN concluded that in the first eight months of 2014, at least 9,347 civilians had been killed and at least 17,386 wounded. While all these deaths are not attributable to ISIS alone, ISIS is identified as the primary actor. (The report also documents what could be considered war crimes committed by the Iraqi military.)
Indeed, the Americans are the bad guys, right?

It's so easy to find out of context "facts" like there were bombings in six countries under Obama. Even easier to drag in the emotionalism that women and children could be collateral damage. Why not post of a photo of child that happened to be in wrong place at the wrong time, while not posting the thousands more that died at the hands of ISIS while you're at it? Oh yeah, also forget to mention that the craven cowards with no moral compass will make sure there are civilian casualties for propaganda purposes.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #189 –
Quote from: krake on
When I speak about US military bases then I mean US military bases and not NATO facilities or other joint facilities.
As for Germany it happens to be in Europe.

And we, as in the rest of the Europe, didn't really want Germany to have a proper military again for a bit, now did we? You seem to think it's all some evil American ploy forced upon us. The rest of Europe thinks it was a rational bit of self-preservation. Then the Cold War happened and Germany had the same idea.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #190 –
Considering what happened the last time Germany had its own well-established military--- I can understand the rest of Europe getting a bit edgy at the thought of Germany getting itself re-established as a military force by-- oh, say, 1948 or so.

Of course, by 1950 lots of Europeans became more concerned with the rapacious habits of bears rather than eagles, so military bases built by somebody in West Germany became a must.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #191 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
Of course, by 1950 lots of Europeans became more concerned with the rapacious habits of bears rather than eagles,

And now it's happening again. Estonia and other Baltic nations are not as blind to what post-Soviet Russia did in Georgia and Ukraine as Krake and Howie are. 

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #192 –
More on Putin.
Quote
Saying that he stopped western nations from launching an air strike on Syria, a Russian advocacy group known as The International Academy of Spiritual Unity and Cooperation of Peoples of the World has nominated Vladimir Putin for the Nobel Peace Prize.

http://www.theonion.com/search/?q=putin

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #193 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

And we, as in the rest of the Europe,

We in 'the rest of Europe' aka me Frenzie?
Till now nobody on this forum came up with the idea to represent a continent. Congratulations.
So the 'rest of Europe' aka Frenzie thinks that US military bases spreading all over the world are safeguarding the world from the rise of the 4th Reich and from Putin's Russia. Interesting.
Let us know what else the 'rest of Europe' thinks. You must know best since you seem to be the spokesman of the 'rest of Europe'.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #194 –
I think that American governments believes that "diplomacy of influence" it's something done by installing cannons.
The problem is that they are not too much wrong.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #195 –
Quote from: krake on

Quote from: Frenzie on

And we, as in the rest of the Europe,

We in 'the rest of Europe' aka me Frenzie?
Till now nobody on this forum came up with the idea to represent a continent. Congratulations.
So the 'rest of Europe' aka Frenzie thinks that US military bases spreading all over the world are safeguarding the world from the rise of the 4th Reich and from Putin's Russia. Interesting.
Let us know what else the 'rest of Europe' thinks. You must know best since you seem to be the spokesman of the 'rest of Europe'.

On this forum I represent a continent.

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #196 –
Krake--- considering what Germany managed to do in two world wars, I reckon Frenzie might be right. The rest of Europe wasn't exactly tickled at the idea of Germany getting armed again right after WW2, they were afraid of what Germany might do next if that happened. On the other hand-- Stalin was beginning to feel his oats, and grabbing nearby countries to add to Soviet holdings became something of a hobby--- that other European nations suddenly had an interest in discouraging. Only the UK and the USA had anything like the armed might that would be needed to slow an aggressive bear down, so--- we got invited in to stop the whole of Europe from becoming Soviet.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #197 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
Only the UK and the USA had anything like the armed might that would be needed to slow an aggressive bear down, so--- we got invited in to stop the whole of Europe from becoming Soviet.

We ain't accepting no mo invitations!

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #198 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on

so--- we got invited in to stop the whole of Europe from becoming Soviet.

And asked by the Germans to station their nukes on its territory. Probably because they made Germany very safe...

Besides, if you invite someone to your house you don't expect him to stay for the rest of your life. Do you?

Re: Putin the Magnificent: Series 2 - Putin's Russia

Reply #199 –
Quote from: krake on
We in 'the rest of Europe' aka me Frenzie?
Till now nobody on this forum came up with the idea to represent a continent. Congratulations.
So the 'rest of Europe' aka Frenzie thinks that US military bases spreading all over the world are safeguarding the world from the rise of the 4th Reich and from Putin's Russia. Interesting.
Let us know what else the 'rest of Europe' thinks. You must know best since you seem to be the spokesman of the 'rest of Europe'.

Let's repeat what I actually said:

1) These bases were established in the American occupation zone in a post-WW2 context. A context which you clearly seem to (want to?) know almost nothing about.
2) There they remained because of the Cold War.
3) Since the end of the Cold War, they've been closing several bases a year. This year another three will close.

I don't comprehend how you think that after the horrific occupation of most of Europe during WW2 (as opposed to the "benign" military occupation during WW1), there wasn't a widespread agreement that something had to be done about Germany. The US was actually the mitigating voice, pleading for a stable Germany instead of a country cut up into pizza slices.



Germany not having a military for about a decade was part of the compromise. You also seem to be conveniently forgetting about the 276 Soviet army bases in East Germany. Did you know they didn't fully vacate the place until the mid '90s, even though the Wall fell in '89 and the USSR itself in '91?