Free Will

Topic: Free Will (Read 7294 times)

Free Will

2015-11-11, 22:24:39

I just finished a small book by Sam Harris, Free Will. Harris argues that free will is an illusion, that our impulses and actions are determined by a combination of nature and nurture.

The ebook is free, so you can download it should you be interested.

I'm sure that you've all thought about the subject, and I'm interested in what you all think.

Re: Free Will

Reply #1 – 2015-11-12, 04:22:59

Oops! You didn't give a link… (That's okay: I have a computer, and -sorta- Google is my friend!)

I'm familiar with Harris, and his views. But -if I can get the book for free- I'll read it. (I do, however, wonder if you'd really want my opinion…

)

(Later: Gotta go search…)
——————————————————————
All I found is a link to an audio book, and this review
which I haven't read, yet.

But -ala Sanguinemoon- I'd say: I'm not asking you to prove a negative! (Actually, I sorta am…) What replaces the concept of personal responsibility, once Free Will is verboten? (I.e, un-thinkable…)
(I've read a bit into that review… Not favorable, is it? But also not very good.)
If there is no such thing as Free Will, what constrains those who practice Might Makes Right!?
And do you prefer or accept this utter lack?
——————————————————————————————
Okay. I've read some more… Perhaps, the reviewer has something to say.

I still ask: What had Harris to say…? (Take his "theory" at face-value, nothing — he was merely an automaton, a "creature" manipulated by — Hm. By what?

) Is it likely or possible that he just prefers a society where some perverse behaviors aren't considered wrong?

Yeah, I think that's it: His feelings matter; yours (or mine) don't… Else, how does he make his case? Indeed, if there's no such thing as free will, he doesn't have a case; he only has a struggle for dominance.
(He lost: died, you know — before winning the argument! But look on the bright side: He's gone, good and gone, dissolved and turned to dust…)

(I'll try to find a text version. Do you know of a choral edition?

)

Re: Free Will

Reply #2 – 2015-11-12, 05:39:26

BTW: I'd pose an odd question, to all.
Is there such a thing as "subjectivity"…? If so, how do you explain it; and what does it tell us about our world?
——————————————————————————————
Something else: What becomes of objective science…

Re: Free Will

Reply #3 – 2015-11-12, 06:49:18

It's the other way round, there's nothing but subjectivity.

Re: Free Will

Reply #4 – 2015-11-12, 06:58:22

As I've hinted before, Bel — based upon our exchanges here: You don't believe in science…

But now you make it explicit!
How many people or groups or bureaucracies will it take, to convince you that you don't exist? Or -at least- that your ideas are not to be tolerated?

Subjectivity is all there is? Then I am fully justified in — what?
Really: What does that juvenile trope get you?

Re: Free Will

Reply #5 – 2015-11-12, 10:14:40

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-11, 23:22:59

You didn't give a link…

The site that I used isn't available to you unless you live in Tennessee, so....

Re: Free Will

Reply #6 – 2015-11-12, 23:30:45

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-12, 06:58:22

As I've hinted before, Bel — based upon our exchanges here: You don't believe in science… But now you make it explicit!
How many people or groups or bureaucracies will it take, to convince you that you don't exist? Or -at least- that your ideas are not to be tolerated?

Subjectivity is all there is? Then I am fully justified in — what?
Really: What does that juvenile trope get you?

As I told you before, you know shit about science, you know shit about philosophy.
But you keep insisting...

Unlike what you believe, science is not a "thing", science is the result of the application of a method. It values what it values and it values a lot, much more than your need for protagonism.

The gigantic difference between you and me, is that I believe in reason, the foundation of the scientific method, and you, you believe in nothing. You're empty, trying to use what you don't understand to justify it's opposite.

You're just and nothing but a sofist. You know what a sofist is, don't you? those that thinks that dialectics values more than reason.
I believe in reason, a gift, the instrument of God to give human beings absolute freedom the same way we should desire those we love to be free, not dependant of us.

You're basically a materialist atheist disguised into theist.

Re: Free Will

Reply #7 – 2015-11-12, 23:46:14

I think you must work very hard at confusing yourself, Bel… But your diligence has certainly paid off!
BTW: The word is spelled "sophist".

Re: Free Will

Reply #8 – 2015-12-23, 05:16:43

Quote from: Belfrager on 2015-11-12, 23:30:45

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-12, 06:58:22

As I've hinted before, Bel — based upon our exchanges here: You don't believe in science… But now you make it explicit!
How many people or groups or bureaucracies will it take, to convince you that you don't exist? Or -at least- that your ideas are not to be tolerated?

Subjectivity is all there is? Then I am fully justified in — what?
Really: What does that juvenile trope get you?

As I told you before, you know shit about science, you know shit about philosophy.
But you keep insisting...

Unlike what you believe, science is not a "thing", science is the result of the application of a method. It values what it values and it values a lot, much more than your need for protagonism.

The gigantic difference between you and me, is that I believe in reason, the foundation of the scientific method, and you, you believe in nothing. You're empty, trying to use what you don't understand to justify it's opposite.

You're just and nothing but a sofist. You know what a sofist is, don't you? those that thinks that dialectics values more than reason.
I believe in reason, a gift, the instrument of God to give human beings absolute freedom the same way we should desire those we love to be free, not dependant of us.

You're basically a materialist atheist disguised into theist.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FONN-0uoTHI[/video]

Re: Free Will

Reply #9 – 2015-12-23, 20:40:19

Quote from: Belfrager on 2015-11-12, 06:49:18

It's the other way round, there's nothing but subjectivity.

I'm inclined to agree with that.

Which says it all really.

Hint--- think before replying, what does your gut tell you?

Re: Free Will

Reply #10 – 2015-12-25, 12:58:52

Quote from: string on 2015-12-23, 20:40:19

Hint--- think before replying, what does your gut tell you?

It depends if and when the brain allows the gut to speak... the body being not a democracy.
Brains in a jar, nothing but brains in a jar...

Re: Free Will

Reply #11 – 2015-12-25, 18:04:29

Re: Free Will

Reply #12 – 2015-12-26, 01:51:23

Gee Oakdale. How did Jimbro get you in a glass protection? Amazing. If he is collecting then I would offer Nicola Sturgeon and loud Alex Salmond to the collection.

Re: Free Will

Reply #13 – 2015-12-26, 13:02:11

Want to go fishing?

Re: Free Will

Reply #14 – 2015-12-27, 02:39:09

I cannot argue with that illustration as both are so full of themselves.

Re: Free Will

Reply #15 – 2016-01-09, 21:48:50

Quote from: string on 2015-12-23, 20:40:19

Hint--- think before replying, what does your gut tell you?

Hint---better to you to not reply.

Re: Free Will

Reply #16 – 2016-01-10, 08:42:09

So… It's only your subjectivity, Bel?

So far as I know, String has better credentials… (A retired engineer is still an engineer, you know!)

Re: Free Will

Reply #17 – 2016-01-10, 11:37:08

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-01-10, 08:42:09

(A retired engineer is still an engineer, you know!)

As a former real estate developer I had to work most of my life with both Architects and Engineers, guess who do I prefer?

Re: Free Will

Reply #18 – 2016-01-11, 04:37:22

Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-01-10, 03:37:08

guess who do I prefer?

Government bureaucrats?

You know, whoever can be bribed…

Re: Free Will

Reply #19 – 2016-01-11, 23:58:31

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-01-11, 04:37:22

Government bureaucrats? You know, whoever can be bribed…

Not anymore. These days you need to be part of some lobby group in order to bribe a lousy bureaucrat... there's no more free bribery market...

Re: Free Will

Reply #20 – 2016-01-12, 06:20:34

Finally! The collapse of the Unfree-Market…

Do you welcome it or bemoan it…?

Re: Free Will

Reply #21 – 2016-01-23, 11:29:45

There's corruption and there's extortion.
In corruption both are guilty, in extortion one is guilty the other is a victim. There's a whole world of difference.

What bureaucrats do it's mostly extortion so people have to pay to get their rights that should be free.

Previsibly, the media calls everything corruption so victims keep being afraid and extortion can continue unpunished.

Re: Free Will

Reply #22 – 2016-01-25, 16:41:44

That's a good point of view!

Re: Free Will

Reply #23 – 2016-01-26, 02:42:31

Yeah a goodly answer there Belfrager. Are you trying to overtake jimbro?