The Decline of Religion in Europe

Topic: The Decline of Religion in Europe (Read 66719 times)

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #150 – 2015-09-12, 07:06:17

Those damned atheists!

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #151 – 2015-09-12, 17:02:02

Totally agree with you jimbro on damned atheists!

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #152 – 2015-09-12, 17:22:44

Glad to see you agree that atheists are more moral than religious, Howie. You're showing signs of progress after all

Now that you understand Christianity and other religions are at the minimum intellectually stunted and morally debauched, we're well on your why to finally becoming an atheist.

Kolhberg's stages of moral development affirms this. If don't "sin" only because some book (or other authority) tells you not to and you fear punishment (hell) you have no morality.

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #153 – 2015-09-12, 23:07:58

Quote from: Midnight Raccoon on 2015-09-12, 17:22:44

Now that you understand Christianity and other religions are at the minimum intellectually stunted and morally debauched

Are you totally idiot?

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #154 – 2015-09-13, 09:57:55

Quote from: Midnight Raccoon on 2015-09-12, 17:22:44

Now that you understand Christianity and other religions are at the minimum intellectually stunted and morally debauched, we're well on your why to finally becoming an atheist. Kolhberg's stages of moral development affirms this. If don't "sin" only because some book (or other authority) tells you not to and you fear punishment (hell) you have no morality.

There's a little flaw in the studies on morality that Jimbro's pic represents. Namely, the definition of morality is not integral in them. To be moral is to be morally principled and integral, but this is not what the studies measure.

For example, the first point, "Compared to religious people, non-believers are in general LESS prejudiced, anti-semitic, racist, dogmatic, ethnocentric, close-minded and authoritarian." This easily translates into that non-believers have no regard for traditions and values, so it cannot mean that non-believers are more moral.

The second point, "...non-religious people are MORE altruistic and supportive of women's rights, gender equality, and gay rights," begs the question whether there are such rights in the first place and in what sense are genders equal. If genders are really equal, maybe men get pregnant and give birth to children as naturally as women? Or, if they don't give birth, maybe they have a natural inalienable human right to give birth? What is the meaning or purpose of such right? Doesn't it make a mockery of the concept of rights? So, this second point does not seem to elucidate anything about morality either.

The thing is that atheists and non-believers seem to be, in general, more inconsistent about morality than theists and believers. With less scruples about what they do and think, and with no concern of whether their thoughts and actions are consistent or not, atheists and non-believers are less conscious about their own state of morality, they care less about what morality is and they care less whether morality is. These studies tend to disregard this issue.

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #155 – 2015-09-13, 14:06:33

Quote from: ersi on 2015-09-13, 09:57:55

There's a little flaw in the studies on morality that Jimbro's pic represents.

That's why I noted Kolhberg's study. If your definition of morality goes back to a list of "thou shalt nots" and fear of eternal punishment, you're actually not moral. I find that it would be difficult for a theist to transcend the conventional stage stage of morality, in which your "moral" behavior is prescribed by law (including your religion's one.)

Quote from: ersi on 2015-09-13, 09:57:55

With less scruples about what they do and think, and with no concern of whether their thoughts and actions are consistent or not, atheists and non-believers are less conscious about their own state of morality, they care less about what morality is and they care less whether morality is.

A broad generalization for which no support can be given. Witness Infamous Christian Kim Davis, the county clerk for Rowan County, Kentucky. She defied orders to begin issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples following the Supreme Court ruling that denying same-sex couple the right to legal marriage violated equal protection under the law as guaranteed by the US Constitution. Davis claimed that complying with the order would violate her bible-based Christian beliefs. Unfortunately, while still married to one man, she conceived children with another. The Bible speaks far more about adultery than homosexuality. Note her lack of scruples and consistency. She is hardly alone in her inconstant "morality." Given the inconsistent moral behavior of Christians and other religious, it's impossible to demonstrate any truth in your statement.

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #156 – 2015-09-13, 15:08:30

Quote from: ersi on 2015-09-13, 09:57:55

For example, the first point, "Compared to religious people, non-believers are in general LESS prejudiced, anti-semitic, racist, dogmatic, ethnocentric, close-minded and authoritarian." This easily translates into that non-believers have no regard for traditions and values, so it cannot mean that non-believers are more moral.

So you are saying we should hang on to prejudices, racism, etc. for their traditional values? And of what value are they? War, genocide and destruction in the Middle East (in particular, but not 'only'), has been raging for many centuries because those people won't let go of what their parents and grandparents teach them generation after generation--now look where the world is with the handing down of that historical convention. Millions are fleeing into Europe (primarily), from the horror of "traditional values".

Quote from: ersi on 2015-09-13, 09:57:55

The second point, "...non-religious people are MORE altruistic and supportive of women's rights, gender equality, and gay rights," begs the question whether there are such rights in the first place and in what sense are genders equal. If genders are really equal, maybe men get pregnant and give birth to children as naturally as women? Or, if they don't give birth, maybe they have a natural inalienable human right to give birth? What is the meaning or purpose of such right? Doesn't it make a mockery of the concept of rights? So, this second point does not seem to elucidate anything about morality either.

Either you are spoofing us sir or you have the early onset of dementia. How can you bring up the inherent biological differences between men and women into a discussion about equal rights under the law for everyone? Are you daft?

Quote from: ersi on 2015-09-13, 09:57:55

The thing is that atheists and non-believers seem to be, in general, more inconsistent about morality than theists and believers. With less scruples about what they do and think, and with no concern of whether their thoughts and actions are consistent or not, atheists and non-believers are less conscious about their own state of morality, they care less about what morality is and they care less whether morality is. These studies tend to disregard this issue.

Non-believers are not particularly inconsistent with their moral beliefs, they are simply more flexible in an ever-changing world (and it is not only for the better, but may be our true salvation). Although most people have a basic understanding of what is right and what is wrong, not even the greatest of believers can be consistently right in how they obey God’s laws as well as those that have been established by man. A book called "Under the Banner of Heaven" demonstrates what happens when the strict interpretation of god's laws supercede man's laws. In short, religion has been as inconsistent about morality as anything else and more often than not, that causes even worse problems.

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #157 – 2015-09-13, 15:14:56

Quote from: Midnight Raccoon on 2015-09-13, 14:06:33

If your definition of morality goes back to a list of "thou shalt nots" and fear of eternal punishment, you're actually not moral.

Correct. And I hope you have a somewhat more sophisticated view of religion than just a list of "thou shalt nots".

Quote from: Midnight Raccoon on 2015-09-13, 14:06:33

A broad generalization for which no support can be given.

Maybe. In this sense my generalization is no worse than Jimbro's studies, except that my generalization is concerned with actual morality, instead of some currently prevalent cultural "thou shalt nots".

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #158 – 2015-09-14, 02:07:53

If any help Belfrager the answer is yes he is.

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #159 – 2015-09-14, 11:29:59

So, everybody has a different meaning for morality. Debating such thing is useless.

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #160 – 2015-09-14, 18:57:31

No it isn't.

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #161 – 2015-09-14, 23:36:59

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-09-14, 18:57:31

No it isn't.

Mr. Howie's probable upbringing:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqs4EbU02As[/video]

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #162 – 2015-09-16, 01:51:03

Not very new song there at all and came out an awful long time before that group discovered it. Although it is amusing in practical fact dear boy it couldn't happen as you cannot join a lodge if married to a green wifie!

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #163 – 2015-10-18, 21:02:17

There's no decline of religion in Europe, there's a decline of Europe, just that.
Was not for the Southern Catholic Europe and Europe would be already a mere servant of the Anglo Saxons.

Catholicism dominates in South America, North America (where protestants keeps on adding up all the different protestants in a desperate way to pretend they dominate) and is growing immensely in Africa and all the Orient.

Against the consumerism and lack of values, there's no safe port as Catholicism.
The Pope rules even in the bankruptocracy America.

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #164 – 2015-10-20, 08:10:04

The Pope is this season's Madonna, schmuck!

Europe has rejected the very idea of God and knows not how to deal with their Islamist "immigrants"! What will likely happen is easy to predict: The followers of Islam will prevail, and another Dark Age will descend…

But not in the Americas — no matter how much the Canadians would welcome such!

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #165 – 2015-10-20, 22:12:41

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-10-20, 08:10:04

Europe

There's no Europe, there's several "Europes" and the one you think it's yours, the Anglo Saxon, is returning to their real importance - zero.
Good idea your Obama had, to focus American foreign policy to middle east, Europe being lost for you. What a pitty he doesn't know how to do such change...

Meanwhile he bows to Pope Francis. He, his family and all the most important America's government leaders.
It happens, you can't fight it, conform.

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #166 – 2015-10-21, 00:35:50

Bel, you remind me of José Mourinho.

Inglês football fans will probably guess what I mean.

BTW, do you know how he is titling himself?

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #167 – 2015-10-21, 17:49:05

Interesting acclaim from Belfrager and the places he describes as supposedly outstanding for Rome have been poor, dictatorships for a long time and corrupt as hell. Little to acclaim for but at least that is a consistency!

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #168 – 2015-10-21, 22:05:42

Quote from: krake on 2015-10-21, 00:35:50

Bel, you remind me of José Mourinho.

Nope, Mourinho reminds you of me. Vaguely.

The man is a low social class arrivist that values more than enough for the Anglo Saxons, to me and others he is nothing. So we export him. He gets rich, we get rid of him and you get satisfied...

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #169 – 2015-10-22, 05:32:47

Funny, how the Europeans seem to segue from religion to soccer… How decadent can you get?!

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #170 – 2015-10-24, 00:03:16

How decadent can you get - living in the ex-colonies you should know Oakdale!

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #171 – 2015-10-24, 05:42:38

Ah, perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word, RJ?

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #172 – 2015-10-28, 19:13:42

Dear, oh dear. Get out for a walk man!

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #173 – 2016-01-20, 22:12:24

God is not great.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNW4DeM6ZVo[/video]

Re: The Decline of Religion in Europe

Reply #174 – 2016-01-21, 00:25:37

A boring man who thinks he is something whilst trying to be associated with the label some give him of being intellectual and wonderful. He is dead now and in practical terms for the bulk of people outside of the classy would-be smart alecs no practical great loss. His own brother Peter is a well known and intelligent journalisy=t here in Britain and not only a Christian minded man but an active member of the Church of England so balances out that pain on the backside who during his life thought he was something.

So the video will no doubt be noted as special to the people who like to think they are above others intellectually or in knowledge but I will stick with the existing brother Peter!