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Topic: Keeping an eye on Opera (Read 169472 times)

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #202 –
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #204 –
j7n was being sarcastic.

What makes remarks like this harmful is not that they're offering the option of an online installer—although I'd rather they finally make bookmarks at least superior to IE3 instead of making some stupid online installer no one wants—but the disdain displayed toward the classic installer is worrisome.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #205 –
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #206 –
Quote from: j7n on
By using and older version one effectively locks themselves out of support forums maintained by the author...
Now what? I can find other people than the author. (Have you ever met our Dear Boss, for example?;))
Quote from: j7n on
I heard that in russia...
What's russia?
:P

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #207 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

j7n was being sarcastic.

What makes remarks like this harmful is not that they're offering the option of an online installer—although I'd rather they finally make bookmarks at least superior to IE3 instead of making some stupid online installer no one wants—but the disdain displayed toward the classic installer is worrisome.


Right now, that disdain is classic Opera ASA. They've thrown out the old browser, are in the process of tossing the community out, and now we're surprised that they have disdain for the classic installer?

Special note: I've reached the point where I will be tossing the last of Opera out. Can't be helped, it seems the point has been reached where it's useless to fret over it anymore. I can't download 12.16 onto this machine, the new and improved version doesn't come up to Chrome standards and that's saying something, and the decision to run us out of town on March 1 lurks. So, when I clear this browser's memory-- I'm using Firefox-- the last of Opera will be gone with it. It's way past time to figure out what's next and devote energy to that. I will put time into this site, Vivaldi, my blog on Wordpress and I will possibly be closing out my account at 2liv3 because that place is nearly dead. Truth to tell, I'm not sure that I'll put much effort into my Vivaldi "holdings" because it seems to be headed-- it doesn't have any idea where it's headed.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #209 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

Why you would ever want to do an online installation of any software is beyond me.*

* Not actually true. I quite like the Debian netinstall.


* I'm sure you would fall in love with Chropera's 'netinst' as it is for now ;)
The funny part of Opera's new revolutionary online installer is that for now it installs the full installer (same size) which is hidden in some temp directory before it gets executed. So the main (so far only?) difference is that it is hidden from the prying eyes of the average user :D

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #210 –
Quote from: opera
Why you would ever do an offline installation of a web browser is beyond me, but there is always that one case where it is needed.
Why unprofessional comments that show disdain for users' choice would appear on an official blog is beyond me, but it's the case and is not needed.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #211 –
Quote from: krake on
The funny part of Opera's new revolutionary online installer is that for now it installs the full installer (same size) which is hidden in some temp directory before it gets executed. So the main (so far only?) difference is that it is hidden from the prying eyes of the average user

Well yeah, how else could it work anyway. I fail to see how it's supposed to be easier to locate some "installer" you downloaded earlier than to just go to freaking opera.com. Do they think I'll pass the online installer around on floppy disks like we used to do in the '90s to a lesser extent in the early '00s, or that I'll e-mail it to my friends? It just makes no sense to me. The only thing I'd conceivably carry around on a USB stick is the full installer.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #212 –
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #213 –
Yup. Basically the only use case where it makes sense would be seen as too complicated.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #214 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
Right now, that disdain is classic Opera ASA.
.
You may be more right than you know, this is classic Opera, or classic any browsing or software company for that matter. A software company has to assume that it knows what it is doing (and of course know what it is doing). If it does, it has a chance for success. If it doesn't failure is certain. A software company that isn't in this sense arrogant has no right to existence. Arrogance shouldn't be not listening to the users, but to what users do, not what they say. You must have noticed that all browsers have become simpler, that is because the user interface and user experience people are in the ascendancy.

There have always been quarrels about installers, the one piece of software that actually does no browsing and has no functional role. The Mac people, the Windows people, the Linux people generally preferred to do it the OS way, the default way. There have been a huge number of bugs and issues on installers thoughout history, having more than one means more complexity, more time, more testing, and still more bugs.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #215 –
I won't accept/allow any "automatic" updating, downloading, or installing on my computer(s). I have been quite successful in keeping my software from doing "automatic" stuff like that. As far as browsers, &/or other software that utilize online installers, I will always find the full blown download the full version somewhere first...then offline install so no 'tet-to-tet' with the mother ship can take place, mainly for security purposes. If unavailable anywhere on the planet, I'll do without......period.

Anyone that thinks that software companies, & other browser mothers, should be allowed to use online installers as a legitimate way to upgrade or update can go suck wind out of Mahammud's dead Camel's ass!

Put that in yer book!

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #216 –
If you don't trust the software company, it doesn't matter the number of steps is one, two, or more.  In either one they can install what they please. Software like browsers are going to be online a lot anyway, they will grab what they need.  If you don't trust the software company a better approach is to do network analysis to see what downloads and uploads are done, and when.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #217 –
Quote from: j7n on

That is how most online installers work indeed. They could potentially only grab the packages/components that the user had selected. Then the network installer would have a reason to exist. But I haven't seen any such product yet. I'm sure they exist.
Old Mozilla had such an installer, and its descendant Seamonkey had it at version 1. You could download the net installer, launch it and select the components you wanted to install. It's an internet suit, you could refuse the mail and irc components, debugger. IIRC, the HTML composer and browser were required. The same options also came up with the full installer, so the net installer was specifically for those who were very particular about their downloads.

Chropera's installer is a virus, nothing else. Good that Linux doesn't allow viruses.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #218 –
Quote from: jax on

If you don't trust the software company a better approach is to do network analysis to see what downloads and uploads are done, and when.

Another approach for the case you don't trust the company (anymore) is to simply dump their product.*

* If I would be consequent, I wouldn't use the internet at all :)
I don't see any reason to trust Microsoft or Intel (to name just two market leaders), nevertheless I use their products.
 

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #219 –
Quote from: ersi on

Chropera's installer is a virus, nothing else. Good that Linux doesn't allow viruses.


Is it? Or are you exaggerating now? :)
Either way, I'm not interested in Chropera ;)

Still wonder for the case it had been a Linux package, if you would have installed it and tested that 'virus' :)

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #220 –
Quote from: krake on

Quote from: ersi on

Chropera's installer is a virus, nothing else. Good that Linux doesn't allow viruses.


Is it? Or are you exaggerating now? :)
Either way, I'm not interested in Chropera ;)

Still wonder for the case it had been a Linux package, if you would have installed it and tested that 'virus' :)
Are there any net installers on Linux? Well, there are - system-wide with full configuration options. Unless you qualify the the packaging tools or the whole opsys as a virus, there are no viruses on Linux.

I'm not interested in Chromium in any shape. Chromium by itself doesn't qualify as a virus, but a beacon meant to call home to check its version is suspicious. A program to pull in some other program without user control is a trojan, even though it's served as a great service to users. In fact, this is how all trojans and viruses are served.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #221 –
Quote from: ersi on
Are there any net installers on Linux?

I think your typical sudo apt-get install flash counts as one. Normally that downloads the program, but for Flash it downloads a script that downloads the real thing. There are a few more things like that around.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #222 –
I don't know if this is the right place to post my question but since it's about Opera...

I had to move to an older computer that still has Opera 11.6 installed. Each time I open Opera, a dialog box opens asking if I want to update (to Opera 18). No, I don't.
I'm not remembering where do I change settings so I don't get the message every time. I don't see any option for that at Preferences.

Thanks.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #223 –
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