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Topic: Keeping an eye on Opera (Read 169492 times)

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #425 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

I do actually think Stash or something like it makes conceptual sense. I often leave pages open that I still want to read sometime later, but I don't want to bookmark them either. Bookmarking them and then deleting the bookmark would be workable, but it'd also be annoying.

Possibly sessions are best for that. Move those pages in a single window and session it under the name "later". (Here I'm speaking as someone who's never seen Stash in action. I really don't think it pioneered anything that wasn't already there before.)

Additionally I made extensive use of Notes, copying stuff that I wanted to read later, and then when I had time I opened it up in a text-editor for comfy reading. User CSS in Opera often did the same trick as a well-configured text-editor.

Quote from: Frenzie on
  The problem was that Opera seemed to think Stash's niche could somehow cover all of bookmarks, when in truth it's bookmarks, at least as implemented in Opera/Presto, that could always cover the niches of speed dial and stash.
Precisely. Speed dial and Stash are fringe functions of bookmarks, not the other way round. Complete bookmarks system includes at least:

- bookmarks manager (with abilities to sort and re-order, edit particular properties)
- bookmarks menu

This can be further enhanced with bookmarks toolbar (a.k.a. personal bar or favorites),    keywords, aliases, speed dial, notes, stashes, and sessions, but these will never replace the core. In my opinion there's a pretty clear distinction between core functions on one hand and enhancements, fringe functions, and spin-offs on the other.
 

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #426 –
Quote from: ersi on
Possibly sessions are best for that. Move those pages in a single window and session it under the name "later". (Here I'm speaking as someone who's never seen Stash in action. I really don't think it pioneered anything that wasn't already there before.)

I think we're talking past each other a bit. A few random article that I want to read later are not a session, while a few articles or pages relating to a particular area of research are indeed a session. Moreover, I do not necessarily dislike using bookmarks for such true sessions, even if they are more temporary than true bookmarks. After all, they are essentially true bookmarks for the duration of my research. It's just that the truest of bookmarks are forever.

Quote from: ersi on
Additionally I made extensive use of Notes, copying stuff that I wanted to read later, and then when I had time I opened it up in a text-editor for comfy reading. User CSS in Opera often did the same trick as a well-configured text-editor.

Yes, that's my "stash" as well, insofar as I don't just leave pages open until I get to them. The thing is, only Opera/Blink has a problem with leaving a few dozen unused pages open. Opera/Presto handles it like a champ. To a large extent stash is simply a workaround for a fundamental Chromium issue.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #427 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

I think we're talking past each other a bit. A few random article that I want to read later are not a session, while a few articles or pages relating to a particular area of research are indeed a session.

No, we are not talking past each other. But we seem to be using bookmarks and sessions in a way which is past each other. For me what you describe would both handily be sessions, one called "laterz" and the other "research".

Quote from: Frenzie on

Moreover, I do not necessarily dislike using bookmarks for such true sessions, even if they are more temporary than true bookmarks. After all, they are essentially true bookmarks for the duration of my research.

Yes, I have also used bookmark folders where I mass-bookmarked stuff ("Bookmark all" in Opera) just to get rid of the entire folder in a few days. This is also a way to do the above-described research and laterz stuff.

Quote from: Frenzie on

The thing is, only Opera/Blink has a problem with leaving a few dozen unused pages open. Opera/Presto handles it like a champ. To a large extent stash is simply a workaround for a fundamental Chromium issue.

Sad that Chropera is ditching stash then. And good that I'm not using Chropera or any other Opium.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #429 –
So, should I close this ticket as wontfix? ;-)
I still don't know how exactly does it work (stash) and since we allow to delay creation of tab contents until really necessary (works best when not taking advantage of MDI, as tab contents will be populated as soon as it will become at least partially visible) we can keep lots of tabs in background.
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #430 –
I don't really understand the request for Discover. Opera Portal and iGoogle may have closed, but there are still plenty of equivalents around if one likes that kind of thing. I suppose a hypothetical feed reader module could also supply a Discover-like way of exploring feeds.

Stash does fill a conceptual hole, but I think it would make more sense to implement the functionality in a different way. For example, although at first I didn't see much point in tab stacks I've grown to use them occasionally for sub-window management because that way you get three levels in the windows panel instead of two, or a bit of the goodness of window management if you're just using the tab bar.

Anyway, if you then imagine something like "suspend page" you could also have "suspend stack". It'd be like closing a tab in the sense that memory and CPU use would be practically zero, except it'd reload when you resumed it by activating it.

NB This is just off the top of my head. It's not something I gave much thought to.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #431 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

Anyway, if you then imagine something like "suspend page" you could also have "suspend stack". It'd be like closing a tab in the sense that memory and CPU use would be practically zero, except it'd reload when you resumed it by activating it.

In what way is "suspend page/stack" different from or better than pin and session? For me Opera always filled all the needs of tabs/bookmark management. In addition to mere tabs and bookmarks with "Bookmark all" there were sessions, pinning, and opportunity for multiple windows and multiple profiles. I never even got to stacking.

Stash and Discover are unnecessary. There's Chropera for those, and even they didn't monetize on it.

I on the other hand just got an idea on which Otter could monetize :)

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #432 –
Quote from: ersi on
In what way is "suspend page/stack" different from or better than pin and session?

I don't see what pin has to do with it, but suspend wouldn't be as cumbersome as saving to a read later list, sessions, or whatever. It'd be right there, just the way you want it, just not eating any memory at the moment. It'd be like how some Firefox annoyingly defaults to not loading background tabs until you click on them, except actually under your control.

Anyway, I have no special desire for this functionality depending a bit on memory use. I'm just saying that if some kind of "stash" were implemented, it'd be more elegant to integrate it better with the existing GUI than to make up some kind of separate GUI the way Opera did.

Quote from: ersi on
Stash and Discover are unnecessary. There's Chropera for those, and even they didn't monetize on it.

Surely Opera is paid for articles opened through Discover? Why else would it be so restrictive that you can't even add your own feeds to the mix?

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #433 –
Quote from: ersi on
In what way is "suspend page/stack" different from or better than pin and session?

It's different, in Otter you can set Browser/DelayRestoringOfBackgroundTabs and not yet shown tabs (currently applies only to tabs restored from session, we could turn it into enumeration and allow to apply takt also to tabs opened in background in current session) will consume only minimal resources (title, history etc.) as it won't create WebWidget until needed.
This can also apply to pinned tabs but his is separate concept, targeting resource usage (memory, CPU and network).
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #434 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

Quote from: ersi on
Stash and Discover are unnecessary. There's Chropera for those, and even they didn't monetize on it.

Surely Opera is paid for articles opened through Discover? Why else would it be so restrictive that you can't even add your own feeds to the mix?

That was the plan, yes, that they would get money this way. Except that who would use restrictive features? Earlier Opera tried to make money, among other things, with bookmarks (remember the pre-set bookmarks like Yahoo and Amazon in Opera?) and they ended up with the definitive fact that "nobody uses bookmarks" :D

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #435 –
Quote from: Emdek on

Quote from: ersi on
In what way is "suspend page/stack" different from or better than pin and session?

It's different, in Otter you can set Browser/DelayRestoringOfBackgroundTabs and not yet shown tabs (currently applies only to tabs restored from session, we could turn it into enumeration and allow to apply takt also to tabs opened in background in current session) will consume only minimal resources (title, history etc.) as it won't create WebWidget until needed.
This can also apply to pinned tabs but his is separate concept, targeting resource usage (memory, CPU and network).

Okay. Now I get it, I think. And I think taking a look at Otter's resource usage is a must. I will some day reveal why.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #438 –
As primarily a non-techy user i think the developers are to slow in the updates, since new opera 15 til now with version 28 i dont SEE much of a improvement, bookmarks are back and so is syncing: normal basic things for a browser in this day and age, plus some sites still dont fully work.

Their going to have to get act together soon or everyone who onced loved there old browser is going to move on.
“I kill monsters and zombies with infeasibly large plasma-based weaponry”

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #441 –
Quote
Your Speed Dial is now a folder within bookmarks, resulting in various improvements:

Uhm, I was planning to do it that way but later I've got doubtful due to extensions which could be added there instead of bookmarks. I wonder how they solved that issue.
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #442 –
Is there such a thing as an Opera/Blink speed dial extension that doesn't link to an actual page in some manner? Or to put it a different way, can they generate their own page?

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #443 –
@Frenzie, I would need to investigate it, I can only assume that they can bundle own HTML file as part of extension.
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #444 –
Well sure, there's an HTML file used to generate the icon (or so I assume). But all of the ones I've seen do open an actual URL when you click on them. I just wonder if there are any that are more like widgets/unite. ;)

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #445 –
Either I'm not using the right search terms (as if…) or Opera Mobile Classic has been removed from Google Play. Get it [ftp=ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/android/classic/]here[/ftp].

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #446 –
Quote from: https://dev.opera.com/blog/opera-mini-server-upgrade/
We’ve upgraded our Opera Mini servers to a new version of our Presto rendering engine. This means that CSS Flexbox and layouts depending on rem units will now display as you expect.

Flexbox and rem are supported in Opera 12.1x, as you'll also find out if you read on.
Quote
Previously, the Opera Mini clusters were running a version of Opera Presto analogous to the 11 series of Desktop. This has been upgraded to a version analogous to Desktop 12, with several features disabled, mostly because of architectural constraints; for example:

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera

Reply #448 –
Yes. Poland is evidently cheaper.