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Topic: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life (Read 4677 times)

RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

How often must the Roman Church have to sneak about in soft shoes with incident after incident in Ireland? Priests and monks especially the "Christian" Brothers with a nasty smell. We had the investigation into the Dublin Archdiocese on clergy misconduct then a separate one for the nation (I recall a Bishop who gave someone £20,000 to keep quiet about his affir with a woman and a teenage boy that was his) and the abuse lists very disturbing. Now it has broken that at a Church home (rather large place with an equally high wall) was once used to dump and I mean dump dead bodies of babies. The count is now almost 300.

We are aware that for an awfully long time the Church and State worked together in having unmarried women sent to such homes to work in laundries like slave labour. Even the singer  O'Connor was sent there in 19  at the age of 15 for shoplifting. Some of the babies were stuck in beside the septic tank to add to the ignorance. This dumping was thought to be right asthe mothers were unmarried so beyond the RC Church's world. The Prime Minister who is a practicing member has well indicated his dismayed  at this latest scandal. The trouble in the past was that the State played second fiddle to the men in black - and the women who were nuns. They got away with just about anything. The police were out the frame as the hieracy was close to the Church. Nowadays it is muh different and the Church has been eased out of so much. Some even want a even further separation.

These laundries or terrible prison-like camps were often the scene of violence and intimidation from the nuns who staffed them and it was in relative times before they were shut down. The Irish people were often subjugated by their Church but had to go along with it and that continued after 1922 when the State and Church got into the same bed so to speak. Nowadays the Irish people are better educated more freer and with modern facilities and thinking not take the control any longer. The long abuse is bad enough  but that it was keeping the thumb on people and little like Christianity is a disgrace. Several years ago I worked beside w woman who had taken aback seat from that church as she was in a nuns home for orphans and got beat up often sometimes with a frying pan. I am glad that the country is now a much better place and the old cobble-up is no longer available but the legions of the suffering still have the resides today in shocking and disgusting happenings such as this in now empty St Mary's Home, Taum. Dumping child bodies with no recognition, service or whatever as if old rubbish. Disgusting and another disgrace to add.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #1 –
/Inb4 SmileyFaze or Ersi comes in here to bat Mr. Howie around the ears.  :left:

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #2 –
I am not a member of the Roman Catholic Faith, though I was raised for 18 years as a Roman Catholic, nor am I a member of any organized Religious denomination.

I consider myself a Christian, for I believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, I do not consider Christianity itself as a faith.

I consider it as a pathway for life.........I consider it as a guide laid out by the teachings of Jesus Christ, for man to follow at & on his own free will.

How I interact with my God, & vice versa,  is for me to know, & is of no business of anyone else unless I choose to share it.



That said, if any religion or religious acting in behalf any religion breaks the law of man, I believe they should pay the price for doing so.

In this case where RJ makes copious accusation, if founded should be acted upon, but considering RJ's extensive track record I have but one response, & one response only:


                



I have nothing further to say add to that, for RJ has proven himself factually irrelevant when dealing with either the IRA, Roman Catholics, or the United States of America.

Why, because he never removes his head from his ass long enough to form any rational or relevant thought, idea, or statement regarding the IRA, Roman Catholics, or the United States of America.

May I add, if you think me too harsh in limiting RJ's lack of knowledge & relevance, please feel free to expand upon my base, for I am sure there is probably much more RJ is irrelevant about.

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #3 –
Cobblers of course as usual from SmileFaze.

There are far too many opportunities to face the Roman Church in Ireland and this lscandal is just the latest in a long line of them. We have had them here in GB too including Bishops and in the north of the Kingdom (Scotland for ex-colonists) the cardinal has had to resign due to poofing attempts with young priets. After a long delay he is now being investigated by Rome but I dare say they are busy enough. Nice of SmileyFaze to remind me of the Pope's lot in the US of A - thanks. Cardinal Cody of Chicago was suspended during the time a new Pope (who died oddly after a couple of months) was investigating corruption which included the Chicago Archdiocese. As soon as John Paul was in  he uplifted the suspension and the investigation  sat on. Elsehwre diocese going bankrupt due to litigation. I don't have to make things up.

As for my condemnations of the US globally that is a wide open door created by America itself. It boasts about democracy and rights but it's own citizens get spied on, leaned on and have to damn fight for their rights. It as a country strides the world because "it is needed." No it dashed isn't. Wars created and the aftermaths a mess. The corporates just love the military and destabilising ploys as they make money. Being a ne-con, SmileFaze is somewhat typical of the corner that gives the USA so much bad publicist and it should keep it's damn ose out of other countries and their affairs but as the dollar is beyind their ploys what can we expect?

Ireland was a country so heavily dominated by the Church of Rome and for generations peoiple too frightened to say anything and the authorities went along with it. They  don't now due as I said to modern situations and things can be challenged. The excuse here is if this latest 300 babies dumped thing is true. Well it is and another damning insult to the people who slavishly followed the men in black. Thankfully the Church of Rome can no longer dominate the modern Irish State and gets away with little now.  Tragically in the past when many in the 19th century went to America they often created much trouble, social upheaval and crime due to the way they had been treated by the Church more than anything else.  Kind of an odd parallel that cities over there with large historically Irish RC traditions had such deep crime. Irish Prots who settled there were a different lot and became entrepreneurs and integrated into communities in a positive way.

And by the way Southern laddie it would take more than a duh neo-con to deal with me! Well done the modern Irish in Irleand and maybe their pals in the ex-colonies could grow up and be the same.  :D
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #5 –
Well string I seen a newspaper article and a mention on television so millions were aware of this latest disgrace. So being so known kind of covers the thing.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #6 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
Well string I seen a newspaper article and a mention on television.......


Many are not subscribers so they may have missed A newspaper article, or A mention on TV.

This is not a local Forum, as seems String obviously open-mindedly recognizes -- it is international, & those not living the local news cycle would appreciate more information. 

So providing as much information as possible enables deeper understanding & absorption of this matter.

So, I echo Strings simple & understandable request for links & validation, lack of which only suggests your bias.

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #7 –
Quote from: rjhowie on

Well string I seen a newspaper article and a mention on television so millions were aware of this latest disgrace. So being so known kind of covers the thing.

Here's some news for you:
  • not everyone watches TV all day
  • most people here don't live in Scotland
  • different countries have different media focusing on whatever they think will make their audiences sit through the ads, which may or may not be the same as in Scotland

That said, there's been so much crap coming up about the RC in the last decade or so, not just in Ireland but pretty much everywhere, that I can't say I'm surprised by any of the things you mentioned.

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #8 –
Quote from: rjhowie on

Well string I seen a newspaper article and a mention on television so millions were aware of this latest disgrace. So being so known kind of covers the thing.
So have I, in many media outlets.

The 800 babies and children thrown into a pit in one religious orphanage (so much for respectful sanctity life), the Magdalene Sisters, the government reports detailing the very many horrific cases of physical and sexual child abuse...

When I see a post asking for links, my response in cases like this, where its so easy to find is "do you own research." I don't know why some need to have everything handed on a silver platter.

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Jochie on

Quote from: rjhowie on

Well string I seen a newspaper article and a mention on television so millions were aware of this latest disgrace. So being so known kind of covers the thing.
So have I, in many media outlets.
...................
When I see a post asking for links, my response in cases like this, where its so easy to find is "do you own research." I don't know why some need to have everything handed on a silver platter.
Well yes, I had also heard of it, it was a news item for a while on the BBC New channels. But, as has been pointed out, it will not be so for all people here and it is common courtesy (aka "netiquette") to give a source to aid the reader. After all a complex post will touch on several issues end such guidance is often essential to understand the background of what was being said.

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #10 –
Oh international forum is it SmileyFaze? That made me laugh. Ex-colonists have come onto this and the previous forum and blether about some issue in America the rest of us know nothing about. it happens on my train sim forums so obviously a standard practice! So they do tend to act differently as if they are the prime people.   Anyway as the thing has been in the public domain it is still disgusting and those babies would just have been dumped like rubbish - no service, etc. Rome in Ireland was a monstrous thing and did little to be of any progressive advance thinking. Even in difficult times and blights the clergy lived comfortably and ate well. There would be the odd exception amongst the men and women in black but they had to keep a low profile and must have been a sadness for them.

Back in the 1930's the irish fascist cause was well aided by senior Church clergy in praising the "Ble Shirts." Equal to them was the Irish Christian Front. At one parade in Cork some 40,000 turned out to be addressed by clergy. The biggest problem Ireland had in it's history was the Roman Church which made sure it kept power for far too long by deciding what the people would do and ensure they could be controlled. As i stated things have changed greatly and good for the modern educated Irish who have shrugged off the spiritual cave-dweller mindset that existed far too long.  Small wonder that post 1922 the Protestant population of the South crashed from nearly 20% to only 2%. Many were burned out their homes, shops, farms as Rome could now do what it liked. With the great strides taken by the modern Ireland and less Church control such would not happen now.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #11 –
I had absolutely no idea what the RC is up to in Ireland, so a link would have helped.

Here in the States, the RC is up to its armpits in scandal-- mostly involving priests molesting children-- and the attempts by the RC church to cover up the scandals, which ends up resulting in an even uglier scandal than would have been the case if the church had handled the situation the right way in the first place. "You must remove the evil from amongst you" is written in scripture for a reason, after all.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #12 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on

I had absolutely no idea what the RC is up to in Ireland, so a link would have helped.

RJ probably saw this movie and took it for a documentary http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318411/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

I'm not saying that the movie is untrue. I'm just saying that somebody has to maintain asylums, and whoever does it in any bigger scale, abuses are bound to occur. Sometimes in big scale too. Sad but true, remediable only by means of a supereffort of goodwill.

Edit: And the Pope surely has goodwill. I saw it in a documentary (or do they call it reality show?) where Jon Voight played John Paul II. Cardinal Ratzinger was also there, they were friends.

(Sorry for my sarcasm for the media. I myself work in media...)

Edit2: To emphasise my point, here's a news item from today http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=128&artikel=5893989

RFSL is an organisation in Sweden working for the rights of young gays and other such queers, particularly among youth. It's a rather practical work meant to directly promote the welfare of those so-called minorities by means of camps with group activities, asylums for the victims of abuse and prostitution, etc. The news item here says that a high-up activist at RFSL, instead of taking care of victims of abuse, was in fact drugging and abusing them himself.

The defence for the RFSL dude in court will be Leif Silbersky, the Swedish equivalent of Alan Dershowitz. It's gonna be a media circus.

Moral of the story: Shit happens to anyone sincere but mistaken or imprudent. Or more cynically: A sure way to ruin a good cause is to make it a formal organisation.

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #13 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
Oh international forum is it SmileyFaze? That made me laugh. Ex-colonists have come onto this and the previous forum and blether about some issue in America the rest of us know nothing about.


Well, I only echoed String's suggestion, but as I said, not doing so would be completely in biased character for you when dealing with the IRA, the Roman Catholic Church, or the United States of America..... totally inconsiderate of the readers, & disregarding of ---- "...common courtesy (aka "netiquette")..." ---- as String so eloquently put it.

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #14 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
Ex-colonists have come onto this and the previous forum and blether about some issue in America the rest of us know nothing about.

It's not hard to find things that not many other people know or care about, for example King William III of Orange.

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #15 –
Or what the good ole US of A wants to bore the world with on it's imperial path! Irresistible! Anyway, King William got rid of a Popish nyaff, King James and banned torure which the Stuarts practiced. Introduced the Bill of Rights (which later influenced your country dear man. Guaranteed religious freedom.

Can i say ersi that, yes I seen the film ages ago BUT it wasn't telling anything |didn't know or the hard fact that it was a practice going on for far too long in Ireland and everyone over there knew about it. That this form of terrible abuse and torture went on for decades is a disgrace as it was abetted by the State.Indeed that the torture/abuse was carried out as a Church policy is even worse. You may not be awre mjsmsprt of what the RC Church gets up to in Ireland but there again you are an American and they don't know much about the outside world! ( :).

And before I forget ersi about that stuff you mentioned about John Paul. He was an arch conservative and he immediately stopped the investigations by the Pope before him who died so quickly. What does that tell you about that wee man, eh? Not just on corruption of the RC Church in America but elsewhere and the uplifting of suspension on the Chicago Cardinalwho when John Paul arrive there got a nice presentation box with money. The illegalities going on in the Vatican Bank was also stopped by him. As a young priest he did work in the Vatican diplomatic admin and what do you know it was the same Vatican department that dished out passports in false names for SS people to sneak out to South America. How gracious!The same closed mind of him described the Reformed Faith as perverse and it's ministry not a proper one. Ratzinger was his close associate and when he donned the white gear he said the same. He also tried to be a hero by telling us that he had deserted the army in WW2 but that was an overdone thing as the top brass were organising a surrender anyway. Kind of left the idea a bit late the man. As for the present wearer of the white he may well be a pleasant man but he presides over something archaic, part Christian and still claims all sorts of would-be titles.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #16 –
Off-topic slightly: Receiving boxes of money is a Chicago tradition. It has nothing to do with who the Pope is or who the present cardinal is, or even whether the giver or recipient of the box full of cash is Roman Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Atheist or Hare Krishna, for that matter. Boxes full of money being passed from one hand to another, with nobody talking about it because, after all, this is a deed done in darkness because the deed is evil-- is "The Chicago Way".

Question: Is the RC Church corrupting Ireland or is Ireland corrupting the RC Church? Care to expound on that one?
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: RC Church is a blemish in Ireland's life

Reply #17 –
Firstly mjsmsprt40 you are being too generous on the Chicago money box trait. Can I remind you that the cardinal was suspended by that reforming Pope who died suddenly with odd aftermaths. So in the context of this thread when John Paul took over being an arch conservative and mental cave dweller he had immediately uplifted the suspension without finishing the investigation. So it only emphasises my pooint of the Pope being good to Cody hence the "gift."

And again on the Irish question you are attempting some generous liberal thinking by trying a would-be double edged comment. This is a distraction. My reason for saying this is that there has been an army of priests, monks, nuns and an odd Bishop thrown in who dallyed with women abused children, etc/ There were two very recent investigations. One for Dublin and the other for the whole country and both were damning so if the clergy who run the Church NOT the people it is the RC Church that corrupted the population and it would be well, daft to think otherwise!  The Church controlled the polticians, police and just about anything in the country until modern times. Even it's history on previous centuries was one of controlled education so the black robes could control , persecute Protestants for being almost treated like Pagans. Indeed the Irish Revolt in the late 1790#s they carried banners in black with the initials "MWS." This stood for murder without sin as Prots were heretics so could be put to death with no problems The RC Church was content to support this to rid the island of Reformed people. This was the thinking of the Church hierarchy it wasn't the people who conjured this up but brained into it due to ignorance and being so controlled. Southern Ireland is a much better place today due to pusing that Church back quite a bit.

I was going to finish by saying you could send me a money gift box but a dear old lady has just left £100,000 to my local parish church (Church of Scotland which is Presbyterian).
"Quit you like men:be strong"