History in excess…

Topic: History in excess… (Read 12804 times)

History in excess…

2015-03-21, 08:07:18

Quite some time ago in an introductory note to a re-worked novel Algis Budrys used the phrase… (A literate gloss of the "Great Man" trope.) Can we recognize those who "make history in excess" at the time? Or only after?
We often talk about politicians and other leaders here. Yet we seem to have no dependable means of determining who will make history in excess, or how. And, indeed, are loath to credit anyone living with doing so.
That may be an interesting topic. But I'd prefer another…

What does the mere phrase "History in excess" mean?
As an averred conservative, I have an inkling. I'd like to hear other opinions.

Re: History in excess…

Reply #1 – 2015-03-21, 09:45:33

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-03-21, 03:07:18

What does the mere phrase "History in excess" mean?
As an averred conservative, I have an inkling. I'd like to hear other opinions.

The quotation comes from Algys Budris.

Everybody makes history, but the history I've woven over the decades hardly compares to that woven by Lincoln, Stalin or Jesus.

Quote

What I do have is a fascination with how many pyrotechnically successful leaders in history have been strangers to the cultures they came to rule... and how many were physically peculiar in some way, how many passed through a major crisis that ought to have destroyed them, and how little their biographers have succeeded in explaining their turns of mind. They were people who did not fit their world, and somehow emerged with the capability to change their world to fit them. A sample list would begin with Genghiz Khan and Timur-i-Leng, and include Napoleon Buonaparte, Abraham Lincoln, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin, but it could be extended backward and, I rather think, forward in time. Not all history-making political figures emerge from some such background, but it's striking how many of them do, and how often they are the ones who make history in excess.

I have the story in text file form if you're interested.

Re: History in excess…

Reply #2 – 2015-03-21, 10:46:17

Those who make up history in excess would have to be historians. Be they professional, amateur, or agitator, they are the ones that make (up) the stories, the narratives, we judge our past by.

Few have more than a fleeting interest in a past unrelated to our own future, so it is to the degree that this connection can be made people's greatness is measured, a perceptional trick of perspective. Were there no historians to conjure up these stories we would have to judge the passing of people or ideas by their wake, and our views would be no less distorted.

Re: History in excess…

Reply #3 – 2015-03-21, 11:54:35

There's no History, each moment, place and reality has its own "history".
History is a fluid and always transforming mental representation aimed to give us a sense of existence, that we'l be lost without it.
If there's "history in excess" that's because present demands it. In other words, too less present.

Re: History in excess…

Reply #4 – 2015-03-21, 15:28:05

History excess
that goes different in my mind

Overdo History ?

we can not be immortal , but if our name is immortal ( well-known till the apocalypse ) .
i think that would be fun .

Re: History in excess…

Reply #5 – 2015-03-22, 02:48:46

I see i wasn't mentioned amongst the history people from jimbro, tut, tut. Anyway I am in a whole chapter of a book now in a reference library so at least I have posterity!

Re: History in excess…

Reply #6 – 2015-03-22, 03:55:36

RJ, have you any idea how often E. coli is mentioned…

Re: History in excess…

Reply #7 – 2015-03-22, 07:54:50

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-03-22, 03:55:36

RJ, have you any idea how often E. coli is mentioned…

Yes, even E. Coli has its history. All that's missing is the history of Madame E. Coli.

Quote

History. Theodore von Escherich, a German bacteriologist, discovered the bacterium Escherichia coli in 1885. The bacterium, commonly known as E. coli, can be found in the human intestinal tract and comes in multiple forms, only one of which is deadly.

Re: History in excess…

Reply #8 – 2015-03-22, 14:48:31

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-03-21, 19:48:46

I am in a whole chapter of a book now in a reference library so at least I have posterity!

I would like to read this 'book'. Care to name it?

Re: History in excess…

Reply #9 – 2015-03-22, 17:51:42

Quote from: ensbb3 on 2015-03-22, 09:48:31

I would like to read this 'book'. Care to name it?

Re: History in excess…

Reply #10 – 2015-03-22, 18:04:00

Is the filming and reporting of war an example of history in excess? How much bombing, shooting and killing would you consider excessive? Does the excess of all video recorded violence in history have a negative impact on our society today or does it serve to remind us of the consequences of repeating some of our more disastrous and loathsome history?

I would think that religion or religiosity is an example of history is excess, although I'm not quite sure what you are driving at with this post. The significance of one religion or religious icon over another has certainly stifled the progress of humankind on this planet; too much ado can be made out of anyone or anything if enough people are crazy enough to believe it. There is little, if any "good" historical evidence for who Jesus really was. The Apostles John, Matthew, Paul, etc., did not write the books of gospel named after them, those books are 2 to 3 generations removed from the time of Jesus. They are stories of someone who heard the stories from someone else who heard the stories from yet another, how reliable could one consider that? And would anyone of sane mind place the fate of mankind in the thrice removed accounts of that ancient and highly superstitious heresay? Now were talking history not only in excess, but in ad absurdum.

The media reporting of current news and thus history, is done in excess-of-excess often times, but that's just my personal opinion. How much of that hype actually becomes significant reported history is undoubtedly very small. Therefore, I would have to say that the decision makers of how much significance to give to certain episodes in history, are those who are responsible for its excess.

Re: History in excess…

Reply #11 – 2015-03-22, 18:30:18

Quote from: jseaton2311 on 2015-03-22, 13:04:00

There is little, if any "good" historical evidence for who Jesus really was.

Nor for these great gods who had Jesus traits. Hard to believe, eh?

1. Horus
Horus was one of the many Egyptian Gods. This is probably one of the best-known and contested deities that is often compared to Jesus. Some translations and Egyptian myths say that he had 12 disciples, and was born of a virgin in a cave. His birth was announced by a star, and was attended by three wise men. He was baptized at age thirty by Anup the Baptizer. Horus performed miracles, including rising at least one person from the dead and walking on water. He was crucified, buried in a tomb, and resurrected, just like Jesus.

2. Buddha (563 B.C.)
Buddha’s mother, Queen Maha Maya, had a dream that a white elephant with six tusks entered her right side, impregnating her. As was tradition in this time, the mother left her husband’s kingdom to give birth near her father. She did not make it the entire way, though, and gave birth while traveling. Buddha was born in a garden beneath a tree. In addition to this birth story, Buddha, like Jesus, also performed miracles, healed the sick, walked on water, fed 500 men from a single basket of cakes, was transfigured on a mount, and taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all. There are also some texts that say he was crucified, spent three days in hell, and was resurrected. That is not what killed him, though, as he died in his old age from what is believed to be food poisoning.

3. Mithra (2000 B.C.)
Mithra was an ancient Zoroastrian deity, and along with Horus has some of the most striking similarities to Jesus. Yet another example of virginal birth, Mithra was born to the virgin Anahita on December 25th. He was swaddled and placed in a manger, where he was tended to by shepherds. Like Jesus and Horus, he had 12 companions (which can be interpreted as disciples). He also performed miracles, identified with both the lion and the lamb, sacrificed his life to save the world, was dead for three days before being resurrected, and was known as the messiah, the savior, and “the Way, the Truth and the Light.” His religion also had a Eucharistic-style “Lord’s supper.”

4. Krishna (around 3000 B.C.)

Krishna, a Hindu God, was born after his mother was impregnated by a God. His birth was attended by angels, wise men, and shepherds, and he was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Like Jesus, when Krishna was born, a tyrant had ordered the slaughter of all newborns. In addition, he was baptized in a river, performed miracles, raised the dead, healed the deaf and blind, used parables to teach charity and love, rose from the dead and ascended to heaven, and it is believe he will someday return to earth to battle the “Prince of Evil.”

5. Osiris (around 2500 B.C.)

Osiris was the son of one of the many Egyptian Gods. Like Jesus, Osiris was portrayed as a bearded man, and his myth says that he was killed and the resurrected after three days in hell. Also like Jesus, Osiris performed miracles, had 12 disciples, and taught that people could be born again through baptism in water. In addition, Osiris had many titles, including “Lord of Lords,” “King of Kings,” and “Good Shepherd.”

Re: History in excess…

Reply #12 – 2015-03-22, 23:24:31

Unfortunately the man who did the book with plenty of pictures (he was from Glasgow University) made it a limited circulation production. The Mitchell Reference Library here in Glasgow is a famous place used by students and others. The tome was on particular people in voluntary work especially youth who became well known for what they did. The author who had known of me for years made a point of interviewing and using what he knew so future generations will know what people like me an others did and certainly with the influences no sniggering myth. Earlier i had further stated that I was interviewed for 15 minutes by BBC Radio and a private radio station years before that. At one point very nearly a tv documentary so it doesn't really bother me much what prattles on this forum.

Re: History in excess…

Reply #13 – 2015-03-23, 05:58:13

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-03-22, 15:24:31

Unfortunately the man who did the book […] made it a limited circulation production.

Here in the land of euphemism we call such the output of a Vanity Press…

For obvious reasons, you won't understand the reference, RJ.

Re: History in excess…

Reply #14 – 2015-03-23, 13:54:23

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-03-22, 16:24:31

Earlier i had further stated that I was interviewed for 15 minutes by BBC Radio and a private radio station years before that. At one point very nearly a tv documentary so it doesn't really bother me much what prattles on this forum.

Yeah...
There's no shortage of idiots they've let on the radio. May be I'm just used to the Volunteer State but it doesn't sound like anything to let go to your head... And almost only counts with horseshoes and hand-grenades, as the saying goes.

Re: History in excess…

Reply #15 – 2015-03-23, 14:31:12

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-03-21, 08:07:18

What does the mere phrase "History in excess" mean?

What does the phrase "Mathematics in excess" mean? Or science in excess, that should be simple enough for you...lol.

Re: History in excess…

Reply #16 – 2015-03-23, 19:44:40

Quote from: jseaton2311 on 2015-03-23, 09:31:12

Or science in excess, that should be simple enough for you...

Now, pooping in excess...that means something!

Re: History in excess…

Reply #17 – 2015-03-23, 22:02:52

As they would say here in Scotia that really is 'keech.'

Re: History in excess…

Reply #18 – 2015-03-25, 01:15:30

Quote from: jseaton2311 on 2015-03-23, 06:31:12

What does the phrase "Mathematics in excess" mean? Or science in excess, that should be simple enough for you...lol.

How, with your literal-mindedness, have you managed to survive as long as you have, I wonder?

But I'll play with your "questions" a bit:

Measurement precision is not usually a difficulty. But imagine -if you will- someone who can't solve trigonometric equations to his satisfaction because π can't be written out in decimal notation… (Math in excess!)

The Many Worlds interpretation of modern physics is an example of science in excess… (As Feynman said a long time ago, Quantum Electrodynamics doesn't make sense: You don't "understand" it; you calculate!)

Yet, if you'd think (for yourself) for a moment, "history in excess" is a different animal!

Re: History in excess…

Reply #19 – 2015-03-25, 01:49:31

Quote from: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-21, 01:45:33

The quotation comes from Algys Budris. […]

Everybody makes history, but the history I've woven over the decades hardly compares to that woven by Lincoln, Stalin or Jesus.

I have the story in text file form if you're interested.

I have a second-hand Baen Publications edition from 1991… (But thanks anyway.) And -if you've given up your aversion to science-fiction, might I recommend William Tenn's "Of Men and Monsters"?
Get half-way through it, and I guarantee the ending will surprise -and tickle- you!

Re: History in excess…

Reply #20 – 2015-03-26, 07:24:55

For those who may be wondering, my take on the phrase "history in excess" is akin to that ancient Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times!"

Re: History in excess…

Reply #21 – 2015-03-26, 14:56:21

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-03-25, 01:15:30

Measurement precision is not usually a difficulty. But imagine -if you will- someone who can't solve trigonometric equations to his satisfaction because π can't be written out in decimal notation… (Math in excess!)

Math in excess? Or your imaginary fellow's satisfaction/expectations in excess? I certainly didn't realize that "satisfaction" was now an axiom of trigonometry (do you have the 'proof' for it?), and just what is your concern for this poor unfortunate OCD friend of yours anyway? Do you ever actually live life or do you just constantly read about it with drink in hand and snicker?

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-03-26, 07:24:55

For those who may be wondering, my take on the phrase "history in excess" is akin to that ancient Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times!"

Since we cannot choose when or where or even if we care to be born, this is just ancient Chinese nonsense and since the phrase didn't arise until the 20th century, it's really just plano nonsense (was it the Chinese part what attracted you to it?). And you really contemplate this sh*t? A mind is a terrible thing to waste you know. Do you long to be born in a different era (past or future), or a different place, or of different parents? The times you live in are what they are and since there are few intervals of uninteresting times (peaceful) in any age, what you see is what you get. Your overindulgence in such matters is what is in excess my friend, imho.

Re: History in excess…

Reply #22 – 2015-03-26, 15:04:59

Sometimes we can choose when to die.

Re: History in excess…

Reply #23 – 2015-03-26, 18:18:25

I tried to do that--didn't work. Suicide in excess?...lol!! How much is too much?

Re: History in excess…

Reply #24 – 2015-03-26, 19:12:42

I guess history is forgotten, in this thread at least.