The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Topic: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga (Read 346778 times)

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections

Reply #50 – 2014-05-29, 06:21:55

2016? Easy enough. The GOP candidates will ruthlessly attack each other in primaries to prove who's furthest to the Right (and thus more alienated from the mainstream voter.) Clinton will crush the last man standing under her heel like a cockroach in the general election.

Quote from: The Dawg

2. The President and Congress are elected, so it's whatever we as a whole want. Last go 'round we wanted a Dem as a President, and a Democratic Senate, with a Repub House. Divided gov't at it's finest. I expect it to continue for some time, though the players and their parties will most likely change at some point. One could see Billary Clinton being elected President (D) with a (R) Congress.

As noted above, you're correct about Billary. But both Houses being Republican? I'm not convinced. Republicans are already crowing about this year's election that hasn't happened yet, but there are a couple caveats 1) those seats are those the GOP can be expected to win anyway (the crowers evidently didn't read Nate Silver's full report...) 2) Never underestimate the GOP's predication for self destruction and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.* . I'm not making that prediction, just saying it that it's not outside the realm of possibility, especially given that Red states such as Virginia and Florida have been turning Blue or Purple and I dare say Nevada itself flipped Red to Blue while bypassing the Purple stage. No matter what happens in 2014, the GOP is dying a long and painful death as a true national party unless it changes its ways.

*For instance, Reid isn't popular and should have lost, but you should have seen Sharon Angle's ads. She made herself look more like a retard more than Reid and the liberal media could have ever hoped to. She's not alone among GOP candidates for doing this (remember "I'm not a witch..." ) and Santorum acting more like he was running for Pope then President, sealing his fate even in the looney GOP primary.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections

Reply #51 – 2014-05-29, 20:40:28

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-05-29, 06:21:55

2016? Easy enough. The GOP candidates will ruthlessly attack each other in primaries to prove who's furthest to the Right (and thus more alienated from the mainstream voter.) Clinton will crush the last man standing under her heel like a cockroach in the general election.

Quote from: The Dawg
2. The President and Congress are elected, so it's whatever we as a whole want. Last go 'round we wanted a Dem as a President, and a Democratic Senate, with a Repub House. Divided gov't at it's finest. I expect it to continue for some time, though the players and their parties will most likely change at some point. One could see Billary Clinton being elected President (D) with a (R) Congress.
As noted above, you're correct about Billary. But both Houses being Republican? I'm not convinced. Republicans are already crowing about this year's election that hasn't happened yet, but there are a couple caveats 1) those seats are those the GOP can be expected to win anyway (the crowers evidently didn't read Nate Silver's full report...) 2) Never underestimate the GOP's predication for self destruction and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.* . I'm not making that prediction, just saying it that it's not outside the realm of possibility, especially given that Red states such as Virginia and Florida have been turning Blue or Purple and I dare say Nevada itself flipped Red to Blue while bypassing the Purple stage. No matter what happens in 2014, the GOP is dying a long and painful death as a true national party unless it changes its ways.

*For instance, Reid isn't popular and should have lost, but you should have seen Sharon Angle's ads. She made herself look more like a retard more than Reid and the liberal media could have ever hoped to. She's not alone among GOP candidates for doing this (remember "I'm not a witch..." ) and Santorum acting more like he was running for Pope then President, sealing his fate even in the looney GOP primary.

1. I'm not fully convinced either, just posted that for our friend from wherever he/she is from.

The American Voter can sometimes be a strange creature.

2. Quite true that, about the Repubs snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

3. Interestingly enough, and I might be dead wrong, I think the Childers v. Cochran/McDaniels Senate race could be a toss-up. Yes, I said that.

.......in the solidly Red state of Mississippi. Some of the older people I know, all of whom consistently vote, are thoroughly appalled by the Cochran/McDaniels savagery on the news, in the paper, on the radio, internet, etc. Never underestimate older people. @Jaybro.

4. In any case, owing to gerrymandering, I do feel confident in predicting that the HoR will remain Repub, though I expect Boehner to be given the pink slip.

5. Good to see you posting again as well, 'Coon!

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections

Reply #52 – 2014-05-30, 02:17:19

There are tens of millions over in the ex-colonies to whom neither of the 2 main parties are much use to them. What is it now, 40 plus million on food stamps. I would also guess the reason why many young Americans join youtr military is to get access to health and dental care rather than anything else. This all shows there is something deeply flawed in the system. In addition to that when I listened to that yak Obama telling army officer cadets how the world neds America to be in charge you could almost laugh at the stupidity, nonsense and arrogance. He thinks like all Presidents that they have to interfere and bless the world with the country's wonderful record on freedom, justice and freedom. Yeah we know how hypocritical that lot of stuff is. The country should in fact be spending more time helping tens of millions in it's borders, stop wanting to control the world and stop taking on anyone that doesn't agree with it. Trillions in debt and up to it;s ears in owing to Red China of all places! The world would have more respect for the nation if it stopped trying to give the impression it is Moses with the tablets. Even if a State wanted to secede they cannot? Constant bickering over the constitution, the individual rights of people being trampled. Considering th greater majority of both Houses on the Hill are greatly rich small wonder there are so many poor people in America. The rich mostly only care for themselvesand their incomes have swelled massively while the ordinary bloke sees a different account.

Mostly nice people over there but an increasingly hotch-potch political system that needs drastic overhaul as well as less string pulling by the money barons. You need a broader system and a great overhaul. There are many things that can be said to be fine but the political system is a shambles sadly. Tell you what. I will send over Alex Salmond to the Hill as he is at home with liars.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections

Reply #53 – 2014-05-30, 04:10:38

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-05-29, 21:17:19

Mostly nice people over there but an increasingly hotch-potch political system that needs drastic overhaul as well as less string pulling by the money barons. You need a broader system and a great overhaul. There are many things that can be said to be fine but the political system is a shambles sadly.

An argument older than us both. Predates Pax Americana. The system has the ability to correct. A pessimistic view you have for sure. I doubt any system is free of the likes. Perhaps only that you're blind to the illusion at your own doorstep.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections

Reply #54 – 2014-05-30, 09:38:00

let's try to remove the politicians , the events , and selling partij label stuffs.

i guess every country is almost same ,

the People pay the government salary ( in Taxes ) , so the government have $$$ to Govern that country .

Afaik , unlike monarchy style where there are monarch and Government .

Republic - Democracy eliminated the Monarch , and just have the Government .

in theory seems promising ..

it will save some $$$ wasted to feed the Monarch .

then how about in real ?
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the election is just something like , Employee's recruitment per 5 year .

while you and the People of 'Merica is their boss .

since you are the one that pay their salaries .

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections

Reply #55 – 2014-05-30, 10:15:52

Quote from: Dawg

3. Interestingly enough, and I might be dead wrong, I think the Childers v. Cochran/McDaniels Senate race could be a toss-up. Yes, I said that. .......in the solidly Red state of Mississippi. Some of the older people I know, all of whom consistently vote, are thoroughly appalled by the Cochran/McDaniels savagery on the news, in the paper, on the radio, internet, etc. Never underestimate older people

Yup. The Repubs are too nasty to each other for the good of the party. I still say the Republican Primary of 2008 could have brought us Obama. Anybody that stood a chance against him was savagely labeled a "Rino" and knocked out the race, including Romney v. 2008, so the GOP ended with an old man that didn't have the energy for it and the ditz from hell.

The dinosaurs where already in gradual decline do to natural climate change before the meteor hit. Will 2016 be the GOP's meteor? The political climate is changing and it will take but one catastrophic election be their extinction. It happened to their Whig predecessors.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections

Reply #56 – 2014-05-30, 14:03:19

btw sang ,

is - lesser of two evils , valid and legitimate if applied in election ?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections

Reply #57 – 2014-05-30, 23:11:22

No, you are being too relaxed ensbb3.

I say this because decades ago the 1% was not always factual and was in a two figure percentage. As their salaries have massively increased the amount of the average the same average people have seen their wages crawl. The fewere at the top the more control. Every Presidential Election over there we see all that ballyhoo Conference stuff. It isn't even a party conference but a jamboree. Many moons ago I previously said the 2 parties over there practiced a lessr of two evils matter but not now. Indeed the Democrats gave the Republicans a run for their money from corporates. When you also realise the vast numbers of corporate middle men floating around the Hill that says much too. At the same time the number of American poor has gradually risen. Some 40 million poor living on stamps. Millions frightened to go to doctors, rights trampled on using defence and security as daft excuses. Stupid money spent on military budgets on false premises and arrogance, What the world does outside of the USA borders is their business.

Other quite competent nations have more than 2 parties in their parliaments and please do not start quoting Italy or the daft ones. Presidents come in with great stirring speeches about new directions, hope and all that. Everyone goes nearly tear struck then it all happens over again and again. Even allowing for different traditions their is an almost childish streak running through the place when it comes to political poting. With so much to do inside the country the politicians bodyswerve and want to rule the world even if they cripple the place financially. There are millions of decent and reasonable peole in America and I met many of them on two visits and one in particular whom I still have a high regard for and he is utterly frustrated at the political show. The decent have had their loyalty and hope used by the money barons for their own damn ends and still getting away with it because the big 2 parties have carved things up to make it difficult to get a place. For those who live elsewhere in a proper wider parliamentary system it is a sigh to look at what has happened to the US system. It is NOT functioning for the people or the will of them or anything like it. Voting for the big two is now a waste of time walking to a polling station and what the nation needs is a revolution. Obama has turned out no better than the one before him that the would-be intellectuals snuffed at. He has lied and done more damage than GW did . What may have worked at one time has been stolen and the dispossessed are increasing.

Any change will not be soon as there is a deep rooted matter to challenge and eradicate then all those decent people may value more what their constitution promised but has been stolen from them.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections

Reply #58 – 2014-05-30, 23:54:37

Quote from: Sparta on 2014-05-30, 14:03:19

btw sang ,

is - lesser of two evils , valid and legitimate if applied in election ?

Universally.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections

Reply #59 – 2014-11-08, 20:57:36

What is your take on the New Look Congress, why did the elections turn out the way they did, & what do you see as the next move from both Obama & the demonrats, & from the other guys (everyone else)?

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Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #60 – 2014-11-09, 00:05:14

Lester A. Tweevls for President, Batson D. Belfry for Vice President. What can go wrong?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #61 – 2014-11-11, 07:09:08

Well, I was going to post this elsewhere, but decided on here because I think it will affect the 2016 Election in some way.

It's an obvious admission how much the democrat Party holds American's in complete contempt.

They now openly admit ... plainly ... that they thought the American People were so stupid, that for their own good, they needed to be lied to, in order to get ObamaCare passed.

From the President all the way down the line, members of the Administration now admit -- actually they brag -- that they needed to lie to the American people, deceive them for their own good, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to pass Obamacare -- which, in retrospect, was perfectly OK, & made perfect sense ------- to the Administration.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuaJanYZLVQ[/VIDEO]

Meet Jonathan Gruber, a professor at MIT and an architect of Obamacare.

Quote from: TOWNHALL Magazine http://bit.ly/1EnPTq9

During a panel event last year about how the legislation passed, turning over a sixth of the U.S. economy to the government, Gruber admitted that [glow=black,2,300]the Obama administration went through "tortuous" measures to keep the facts about the legislation from the American people,[/glow] including covering up the redistribution of wealth from the healthy to the sick in the legislation that Obamacare is in fact a tax.

The video of his comments just recently surfaced ahead of the second open enrollment period for Obamacare at Healthcare.gov.

"You can't do it political, you just literally cannot do it. Transparent financing and also transparent spending. I mean, this bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes the bill dies. Okay? So it’s written to do that," Gruber said. "In terms of risk rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in, you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed. Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical to get for the thing to pass .............. " CONTINUED HERE

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #62 – 2014-11-11, 08:27:31

the most dangerous liar are those that think speak the truth .

IMHO just speak about axioms
since the truth can be obtained by collecting Axioms .

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #63 – 2014-11-11, 13:29:32

That 'admission' reads to me as an observation that it is impossible to to pass legislation through House and Senate that is sane, simple, and sensible. In principle the legislature should improve proposed new laws in the process, practice may be much more horrible.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #64 – 2014-11-11, 16:22:23

Quote from: jax on 2014-11-11, 13:29:32

That 'admission' reads to me as an observation that it is impossible to to pass legislation through House and Senate that is sane, simple, and sensible. In principle the legislature should improve proposed new laws in the process, practice may be much more horrible.

Stunning admission that insurance works the way it always has. While you're healthy you pay, when you're sick you get the money. Just because you're healthy today doesn't mean you won't be dying tomorrow from a car accident, a previously undetected heart condition, you contract a deadly disease, etc. The real problem with that clip is that Megyn Kelly is not a stupid person. She knows how insurance works, but is pretending to all upset upset by this. Who's lying now? Maybe Fox viewers really are so stupid they don't know that money taken from their paycheck for insurance (with Obamacare or pre-Obamacare) is actually going to pay for somebody else's treatment, until it's their turn to be in the hospital? The insurance premiums go in the companies revenue for it's profit or to be paid on a claim and the business's other expenses. It has never been like the money just goes into your account only to be paid to you.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #65 – 2014-11-11, 20:22:23

Since when has insurance been mandatory, Sang? Oh, wait... I can remember many instances. I'm sure you can too. But medical insurance hadn't become so (in the United States) until Obamacare...
What does the government do when coercion fails?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #66 – 2014-11-11, 22:27:25

Americans too stupid for truth, says some Gruber guy. Is he American?
I suppose so... Europeans are a little bit more diplomat.

Only at DnD one can find such gems.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #67 – 2014-11-12, 03:43:08

It's no secret that i have little regard for what passes as a political system in the ex-colonies. The 2 main parties that have the thing carved up do not have party conferences like any normal country and instead have children style rallies that are as much use as trying to get me to live in the country. It is money that controls it and there is no limit on spending and some of the tv ads you see are not only intelligence insulting but disgraceful. but there is a kind of elementary attitude over there instead of being adult. With an army of corporate people with agents on the hill anything goes. It is a rich man club and it is no surprise that the recent election got a turnout of only around 37%. Great advert for a supposedly democratic country (giggle!).

The Republicans for a change were very adapt at trying to contain big mouther idiots and went to get their vote out whilst the Democrats struggled due to the way things are. Indeed in polls the vast majority who participate indicate a very low regard and respect for their barons on the 'Hill. It is not surprising that the intelligent people are fed up with the system and way things are run. Every time there is a Presidential race the same guff comes out of a new vision for America and a new way of doing things. Doesn't matter what the label is both do the same. The end result is that nothing encouraging happens and unlike yesteryear when the country may well have had some inspirations and a more obvious future this is no longer the case. People then forget that guff and when the next race comes along out comes the same rubbish. Talk about ground hog day. You can't but feel sorry for the bright citizenry. The country spends far too much on the military and not enough on it's own people. The increasing indifference to the electorate is compounded by the level of debt along with the equally high level of poverty and wages stagnating whilst the money barons increase their gap.

Time to have another war to distract the population but even that is wearing thin nowadays! So the Republicans were clever this time for a change but until the Obama farce runs out there will be a dead in the water matter between the Reps and White House. Doesn't matter who wins the next Presidential because for tens of millions of Americans they will still be suffering.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #68 – 2014-11-13, 05:15:37

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-11, 20:22:23

Since when has insurance been mandatory, Sang? Oh, wait... I can remember many instances. I'm sure you can too. But medical insurance hadn't become so (in the United States) until Obamacare...

The ACA's legality was already decided by the SCOTUS. Oh, you wanted me to answer directly in order to take control of the conversation, even though it should have simply been a rhetorical one, huh? What we're discussing is this "admission." All he admitted to was already known by the commonsense having community. You sign up for insurance either through the portal or through your job or just contact the insurance company directly. After that insurance works the same way it always has. The irony is that Fox is treating their viewers like idiots. That guy talks about the comic book as if that was the only way the law presented to the American people.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #69 – 2014-11-13, 06:08:04

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-11-11, 19:43:08

The [Americans aren't as poor or as ignorant as us True Scotsmen, so they're deficient!]

RJ, you're a card! A joker, of course; but that's still a card, isn't it? The "bright citizenry" is on your side! They'd prefer socialism over here, too…

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-12, 21:15:37

All he admitted to was already known by the commonsense having community.

No: He admitted that "the powers that be" back then decided that the American electorate was too stupid to understand the great gift that the PPACA legislation was offering them; so, they couldn't be told the details! (And, of course, the bill needed to be passed — before we could find out what was in it!)
How is my version of his thrice-repeated comment wrong?

Let me put it another way, using your lingo: The not-having community is supposed to feel empowered, by being made more numerous; thereby better positioned to secure political prowess?
Why not just say ¡Viva la Revolución!…?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #70 – 2014-11-13, 08:21:10

Rewatch around 4:50. Watch around 5:30 Megyn is getting upset about the what's the very nature of health insurance. She's full on pissed off about by 6:00. This what I find so astounding about the video. You pass a law saying people need to have insurance. Let's switch it to car insurance for a second. I believe all state require car insurance. So you pay your premium and it simply becomes part of the company's revenue. The SCOTUS did rule that the the penalty for not having insurance is a tax, so that part of selling it to the people was not correct. That much is obvious. I'm just having trouble stopping shaking my head over the umbrage over insurance being the same way it always has (in that particular aspect) as it always has.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #71 – 2014-11-13, 09:04:18

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-13, 00:21:10

I believe ~~all state require car insurance~~

You believe a lot of things that aren't true… Your point needs other argument.
In particular: Why does the federal government get to tell people to buy medical insurance?

I can understand why states require auto insurance; specially when they've enacted "no fault" statutes. (I don't like it, mind you. But I understand it. Sort-of like you understand why you couldn't buy booze at 11 a.m. on Sundays in some jurisdictions…

[I've never caused nor been involved in an auto accident… But I've only been driving for 40 years; there's surely something I need to be charged with…I mean, I must be guilty of something!]) Sang, you seem to like bureaucrats — to the exclusion of the common man!
You should write an essay explaining how you and K. are soul-mates; and why I am someone who should be sent to the Gulag. (Okay. I've mixed meta-fascist metaphors, and asked you to think. I apologize. Noone should ask so much of you!) I'm sure you can do it: Words are what you spew, amongst your spittle… And you've been taught that whatever nonsense you pen or pronounce is worthy of consideration.

Why are corporations to be excluded from 1st Amendment rights?

Why can't I require you to subsidize my penchant for right-wing rhetoric?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #72 – 2014-11-13, 10:50:24

No. I'm asking you to think. What has really changed about health insurance. Now you have the option of signing up for it through your state's portal instead of your workplace, if you like. The "open enrollment" period for getting it seems to be thing of the past. The inflation for health care costs are half of what it previously was

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-13, 09:04:18

Why can't I require you to subsidize my penchant for right-wing rhetoric?

Because your right-wing rhetoric is not bankrupting the country. Why do you think Republicans drafted the core of Obamacare in the first place? They complain of entitlements, but enacting their method for reducing their growth is socialist only because Obama happened to the president that put it into action. It was hilarious when right-wingers tried to get senior citizen's vote by claiming the ACA would take money from Medicare, when that was their goal for decades. Do you get it now? This whole opposition to the ACA is partisan bullshit. Where are the "death panels?" Obama is not the only one that's been lying.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #73 – 2014-11-17, 22:10:08

Doesn't matter who wins there will still be a great rillions of debt. armies everywhere with hudreds of cripping cost, tens of millions of poor Americans, fighting for rights and so on. Earlier jimbro got his expected dig about me going o about corporates. but the truth is the country is not a proper democracy at all and it is the corporates who run the damn place. Elections are with exceptions a facre. So many millionaires on the Hill, tnes of thousands of full-time people from corroborates to fund and influence. Independents outside of the 2 farces - Democrat and Republican have no chance due to the unlimited expenses now allowed. It is okay for ex-colonists here to sigh at my corporate stance but then they tend to be reasonable comfortable so not as effected as too many others. Now the hype about another Presidential not due to 2016. And all that childish and immature. ballyhoo that goes along with the carnival. Any link with proper politics is almost an accident. It is like people going to the circus to forget reality in lives.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #74 – 2014-11-18, 00:55:46

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-13, 02:50:24

OakdaleFTL said, "Why can't I require you to subsidize my penchant for right-wing rhetoric?" Because your right-wing rhetoric is not bankrupting the country.

As usual, you've Freudian-slipped, and fell on your keister!

Of course, you meant what you said; the logic is inescapable! But you don't like it…
You're a narcissist and a nihilist, Sang… If you weren't also a Fascist, I wouldn't mind so much.
BTW: Keep trying to justify fMRI studies, as explicatory of political rhetoric… Such is your brain, on drugs.

@RJ: You remind me of a short-short SF story, where a guy was given one wish by a computer genie! He asked for "Peas on Earth!" He got it… Of course, nobody that's learned to type would make such a mistake.
You're Split-Green gobble-de-gook Scots Socialism soup may suit you. But why, goy-o, would you think it'd suit a more robust clan?
(I was going to say "boy-o" but reconsidered: Who do you hate more -or at least as much as- than the RCs? That's right: The Jews! When the Caliphate takes control of your "democratic" isthmus, you'll be long-gone. Will you have left anyone behind to carry on?
Or is your bile sufficient justification for you?)

What's coming up in 2016 is going to be — interesting! (Your "tamed" people needn't be concerned: They haven't mattered for hundreds of years!) But -to your delight- it's quite possible that America will veer even further towards democracy…
I hope that doesn't happen.

(Not because people are stupid or because their "will" will be subverted by "corporate" interests; and not because moneyed interests might prevail — or those of the "ruling elite"… But because the power of persuasion will come under the control of the government!)

Government is a necessary evil…