Where debating everything under the sun is only the beginning

The Northern Marianas governor has passed a law banning handguns in the territory - but it can't be implemented.

Handguns were banned for decades up until last year, when a military veteran who wanted one sued the territory's government.

The court ruled in his favour, saying the territory's gun ban violated the United States constitution, which enshrines a person's right to bear arms.

The government has written up another handgun ban, which was approved by Governor Ralph Torres this week.

However, our correspondent in Saipan, Mark Rabago, said the law was effectively moot - unless someone decides to appeal against the ruling in the Supreme Court.

"It's an ineffective law unless somebody challenges and overturns it. But judging by the history of the United States, the states who entirely ban handguns have never won."

The Northern Mariana Islands (link), officially the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI; Chamorro: Sankattan Siha Na Islas Mariånas; Refaluwasch or Carolinian: Commonwealth Téél Falúw kka Efáng llól Marianas), is an insular area and commonwealth of the United States consisting of 15 islands in the northwestern Pacific Ocean. The CNMI includes all islands in the Mariana Archipelago except Guam which is the southernmost island of the chain and a separate U.S. territory.

What SF is also not considering is that the insane mass shooters often want to die. They create the situation knowing full well they won't survive. I guess he never heard of "suicide by cop" , either.

Anti-gun advocates like Gun Control Network Chair Gillian Marshall-Andrews tout the United Kingdom’s longstanding firearms restrictions, which include a near total ban on handguns, as the “gold standard” of gun control. In recent years, UK officials have continued to implement new policies that further burden law abiding gun owners. These include surprise inspections of gun owners’ firearm storage arrangements, the use of centralized firearm owner licensing data to target “terrorists,” and intrusive medical monitoring of firearm certificate holders.

However, the UK’s criminals appear indifferent.

According to the Office for National Statistics’ (ONS) statistical bulletin “Crime in England and Wales,” [glow=black,2,300]firearm crimes in England and Wales were up 27-percent for the year ending in June 2017[/glow]. The bulletin noted, “The latest rise continues an upward trend seen in firearms offences in the last few years.”

In an attempt to resolve some of the increase, ONS explained that part of the growth could be due to improvements in the crime reporting. It should also be noted that the UK’s definition of “firearm,” as used for statistical purposes, includes some imitation guns and other non-firearm items, like pepper spray and stun guns. However, ONS also made clear that “Evidence of some genuine increase in offences involving firearms can be seen in admissions data for NHS hospitals in England, which showed increases in all three categories of assault by firearm discharge.”

An in-depth August 2017 ONS report on firearm crime statistics in England and Wales prepared for the House of Commons painted a similar picture. Using data through March 31, 2017, ONS found that non-air firearms offences had increased 23-percent over the previous year. The document showed that the 2016/17 total number of non-air firearms offences was 31-percent higher than the total in 2013/14. The 2016/17 figure for non-air firearm offenses was the highest recorded since 2010/11. The report also noted that there was a 19-percent increase in what ONS categorizes as “violence against the person” crimes involving a firearm from the period 2014/15 to 2015/16.

In 1997 the UK enacted a total ban on handguns in England and Wales. Despite this restriction, for the year ending in March 2017, handguns were the most common type of non-air firearm used in criminal offenses. Moreover, the statistical bulletin pointed out that there was a 25-percent increase in offenses involving handguns for the year ending in June 2017. As in the United States, the use of rifles in crime is rare, accounting for about 1-percent of non-air firearm offenses each year.

This increase in the criminal misuse of firearms is being cited as justification for a two week national gun surrender period from November 13 through 26. The effort is being spearheaded by the National Ballistics Intelligence Service, which has enlisted the Metropolitan Police and other local law enforcement in the effort. Under the program, those in illegal possession of a firearm can turn it in to specially designated police stations, no questions asked. During a similar effort in 2014 about 6,000 guns were surrendered.

The Met and local police stations have come up with various campaigns to promote the surrender. The Met’s promotional materials urge London’s youth to #GiveUpYourGun and include a YouTube video explaining the potential consequences of illegally carrying a firearm. A video from the Derbyshire Constabulary challenges viewers to tell the difference between a real and imitation handgun, and implores the audience to turn either type of object over to the police.

Despite this messaging, more practical public officials don’t seem to be holding out much hope that the UK’s criminals will comply. Much of NABIS’s press release on the surrender targeted the otherwise law-abiding.

Explaining the types of guns they were targeting, NABIS Head, Detective Chief Superintendent Jo Chilton, noted, “Perhaps you have a gun that has been handed down through the family or you have found a firearm in your loft or shed which has been gathering dust and you had forgotten about.” In a video for the BBC, NABIS Head of Operational Support Clive Robinson pointed to a table full of early 20th century firearms and said, “These are the sorts of weapons families are finding from loved ones that have passed. They’re finding in garages, etc. But when they see them they’re not sure what to do with it. If you bring it into your local police station we will safely dispose of it for you.” Assistant Chief Constable from Northumbria shared a similar sentiment, telling the BBC, “We are realistic enough to realize that we’re not going to get hardened gang members who are in possession of weapons they intend to use.”

Gun rights supporters and most gun control advocates agree that turn-ins, usually in the form of so-called “buybacks” in the U.S., are ineffective public policy. Since 1998, the U.S. Department of Justice has recognized that turn-in programs do not work. A more recent DOJ survey into research concerning Australia’s 1996 nationwide amnesty (confiscation) program noted that there is little evidence that it led to a reduction in crime and that turn-ins are generally ineffective because
[shadow=grey,right]“The guns turned in are at low risk of ever being used in a crime.” [/shadow]

[glow=black,2,300]It is encouraging that some UK officials have at least a remote understanding that gun turn-ins do not work as intended.[/glow]

The recent increase in firearm crime should prompt public officials to reflect on some of the UK’s other gun control measures with a similar skepticism. However, employing reason isn’t their strong suit. Despite the data showing that rifles are used in less than 1 percent of firearms offenses, in October the Home Office announced plans to ban “.50 calibre and certain rapid firing rifles.”

   

Now tell us Howie, tell us all in the rest of the 'uncivilized' world, just how did all this come to pass while the UK has the most restrictive firearms laws on the Planet Earth??      

Doesn't the UK have a more civilized class of criminal?

Don't they obey the law?

.....We do not have the tradition that exists over the pond even yakking about gun issues especially in the England part of GB.  The comparison is totally different and we do not have........

.........OVER 2 million in jails, shootings in 5 figures annually and mass shootings as regular as clockwork........

You haven't a single clue on why UK firearm crime rate has jumped by 27%, & what needs to be done to reverse the trend.............no, but you seem only to know how to point the fingers at everyone else......when now your chickens are coming home to roost..........& you haven't a clue on what to do.  

RJ, Smiley makes a valid point: Why has increasingly restrictive regulation of guns led to more gun violence?

What you really object to about the U.S. 2nd Amendment is simple: You're a wimp. You've always been a wimp and a slacker:
You do what you do on-line because that's all that's left to you...

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2017-11-20, 05:00:43

RJ, Smiley makes a valid point: Why has increasingly restrictive regulation of guns led to more gun violence?

Where? When? In USA? Well, it's just the way you like it over there. By the way, it's much more efficient to shoot yourself than someone else. Closer target, better hit rate. You don't want to be a wimp and miss your target.

No........Why has increasingly restrictive regulation of guns (in the UK)  led to more gun violence (a rise in gun violence by 27%)  in the UK?

See: HERE (link) & HERE (link) for the point(s) of contention.

Anti-gun advocates [...] tout the United Kingdom’s longstanding firearms restrictions, which include a near total ban on handguns, as the “gold standard” of gun control.

[...] Using data through March 31, 2017, ONS [a UK authority] found that non-air firearms offences had increased 23-percent over the previous year.

The latest rise continues an upward trend seen in firearms offences in the last few years, however, offences are still 31% below a decade ago (in the year ending March 2007; Figure 11)..

Firearms include: shotguns; handguns; rifles; imitation weapons such as BB guns or soft air weapons; other weapons such as CS gas, pepper spray and stun guns; and unidentified weapons. They exclude conventional air weapons, such as air rifles.

Focus on violent crime and sexual offences, England and Wales: year ending March 2016 has more detailed information on trends and the circumstances of offences involving firearms, including figures based on a broader definition of the types of firearm involved15; however, this does not include the most recent statistics for the year ending March 2017.

Over the longer-term, there have been steep falls in offences involving all types of firearms (Figure 3.3):

offences involving handguns have fallen from a peak of 5,549 in the year ending March 2003 to 2,157 in the year ending March 2016, a fall of almost two-thirds (61%)
the number of imitation weapon offences peaked later, at 3,373 in the year ending March 2005, but was 58% lower in the year ending March 2016 (1,431 offences)
the number of offences involving unidentified firearms also peaked in the year ending March 2005 (1,500 offences) and has fallen by more than half (56%) since then, to 666 in the year ending March 2016

Whether it's a right, a custom, a hobby, a business or even a necessity as part of American lifestyle - do Americans by bearing firearms affect us Europeans at home in any way?

The ignorance perpetuated by the American legal and educational system is so astounding that it affects my relationship with some people with whom I have had to keep contact.

Quote from: ersi on 2017-11-20, 09:49:53

The ignorance perpetuated by the American legal and educational system is so astounding that it affects my relationship with some people with whom I have had to keep contact.

Hmm, as far as I can follow, it's "The ignorance perpetuated by the American legal and educational system" that affected you.
This has little to nothing to do with Americans bearing and owning firearms in their own country.

It begins to affect others when they over there bear arms, it is a constitutional right to them, and they think nobody else has such right and that any differing viewpoint of this matter is a sign of being a wimp etc. It is a real detriment to communication.

I for instance can't order or walk into a store and purchase a Kalashnikov. Firstly, I'm not aware of any store offering such guns and secondary I wouldn't get a gun license for it even so I can certify that I was never convicted and have no record of any mental disease.
Fact is, whereas the laws of his country allow him to own such a gun, mine doesn't.

Actually, automatic guns (which would include Kalashnikov) are illegal for personal purchase in USA.

Nevadans can even purchase machine guns or silencers, banned in other states, as long as they're legally registered and within federal compliance. The state does not prohibit possession of assault weapons, 50-caliber rifles or large-capacity ammunition magazines, according to the NRA.

Quote from: ersi on 2017-11-20, 11:40:58

Actually, automatic guns (which would include Kalashnikov) are illegal for personal purchase in USA.

Yes, you can buy a machine gun in Nevada

Quote

Nevadans can even purchase machine guns or silencers, banned in other states, as long as they're legally registered and within federal compliance. The state does not prohibit possession of assault weapons, 50-caliber rifles or large-capacity ammunition magazines, according to the NRA.

Under federal law, machine guns — considered automatic weapons — are tightly regulated but legal to own as long as they were made before May 1986 and are registered with the federal government.

Authorities believe that the gunman, who had no serious criminal background, purchased many of the weapons legally, though investigators were attempting to determine whether he illegally converted some to operate as fully automatic weapons, the official said.

Luckily Europeans don't have to sort this mess out.

Quote from: ersi on 2017-11-20, 12:29:02

Luckily Europeans don't have to sort this mess out.

And as I stated it from the very beginning - it's not European's business. We have our own problems to sort out.