Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #525 – 2016-06-24, 06:27:03 Is the Brexit vote binding, or merely advisory? (You know, considering how "wide" a democracy GB has… )
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #526 – 2016-06-24, 06:41:43 Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-06-24, 06:27:03Is the Brexit vote binding, or merely advisory?AFAIK it is not binding but this time it'll be hard to ignore.BTW,
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #527 – 2016-06-24, 08:40:23 Quote from: krake on 2016-06-24, 06:20:33You've left out an important one.In the UK more than 50% did vote for Brexit.In England and Wales. England will fight Iceland, Wales will fight Northern Ireland, that like Scotland voted to remain. Scotland didn't qualify for Euro 24, but may qualify for EU 28. 1 Likes
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #528 – 2016-06-24, 11:47:35 If Britain really obeys the voting results, then EU will have hard time explaining why anybody else shouldn't exit. If Britain ignores the voting results, it will be politics as usual, talking about democracy when convenient, always overriding it in practice.
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #530 – 2016-06-24, 13:26:45 "Spain about to make a claim for dual sovereignty of Gibraltar"Opportunism paired with hypocrisy.How about Spain to make a claim for sovereignty of Catalonia and the Basque Country first? It's just the beginning of a dirty 'war'. An example has to be statuated, so nobody else shoud dare to think of an exit.Next shot will probably come from oversea where US rating agencies which are often used as weapons, will downgrade the UK.
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #531 – 2016-06-24, 15:56:56 President Tusk, President Schulz and Prime Minister Rutte met this morning in Brussels upon the invitation of European Commission President Juncker. They discussed the outcome of the United Kingdom referendum and made the following joint statement:Quote"In a free and democratic process, the British people have expressed their wish to leave the European Union. We regret this decision but respect it.This is an unprecedented situation but we are united in our response. We will stand strong and uphold the EU's core values of promoting peace and the well-being of its peoples. The Union of 27 Member States will continue. The Union is the framework of our common political future. We are bound together by history, geography and common interests and will develop our cooperation on this basis. Together we will address our common challenges to generate growth, increase prosperity and ensure a safe and secure environment for our citizens. The institutions will play their full role in this endeavour.We now expect the United Kingdom government to give effect to this decision of the British people as soon as possible, however painful that process may be.There you have the answer, it was fast.
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #532 – 2016-06-25, 10:32:49 Quote from: Statement by the EU leaders and the Netherlands Presidency on the outcome of the UK referendum, http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2016/06/24-joint-statement-uk-referendum/As agreed, the “New Settlement for the United Kingdom within the European Union”, reached at the European Council on 18-19 February 2016, will now not take effect and ceases to exist. There will be no renegotiation.In other words, let's put behind us all the idiotic whining and threats by Cameron throughout last year in Brussels. Good riddance, Britain! That's the immediate EU response at the highest official level.
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #533 – 2016-06-25, 12:45:35 It's a game of chicken. By forcing a speedy decision from the UK there's a chance they'll back out of it. Europe is united; the UK is internally divided. EU leadership couldn't have responded any better, which is a hopeful state of affairs no matter the outcome.
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #534 – 2016-06-25, 13:16:39 Quote from: Frenzie on 2016-06-25, 12:45:35EU leadership couldn't have responded any better, which is a hopeful state of affairs no matter the outcome.Yes.Now, for the one million euros question, who will assume UK's place for opposing Germany dictatorship? any candidates out there?
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #535 – 2016-06-25, 14:56:50 Had Brexit occurred two years ago, I would have said that eurozone and rouble zone are ready for a friendly unification, to be ruled by Merkel and Putin. Now the EU is ripe to be taken apart and gobbled up by anyone who happens to be close around and feeling hungry.
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #536 – 2016-06-25, 15:05:16 Quote from: ersi on 2016-06-25, 14:56:50Had Brexit occurred two years ago, I would have said that eurozone and rouble zone are ready for a friendly unification, to be ruled by Merkel and Putin.That's a very... well, original thinking.
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #537 – 2016-06-25, 15:31:47 Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-06-25, 13:16:39Now, for the one million euros question, who will assume UK's place for opposing Germany dictatorship? any candidates out there?Portugal 1 Likes
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #538 – 2016-06-25, 15:38:50 Quote from: Frenzie on 2016-06-25, 12:45:35Europe is united;Cough cough.
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #539 – 2016-06-25, 15:48:58 Quote from: Frenzie on 2016-06-25, 12:45:35It's a game of chicken. By forcing a speedy decision from the UK there's a chance they'll back out of it. Europe is united; the UK is internally divided. EU leadership couldn't have responded any better, which is a hopeful state of affairs no matter the outcome.How can the EU force the UK government to invoke Article 50 quickly?
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #540 – 2016-06-25, 16:21:50 They explicitly said no trade negotiations without it. For the UK that's like a crash landing.
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #541 – 2016-06-25, 16:31:13 Quote from: Jochie on 2016-06-25, 15:48:58How can the EU force the UK government to invoke Article 50 quickly?AFAIK it can't. Don't let you get mislead by medial rhetoric.The UK has fulfilled for now its obligations by imforming the EU that it'll leave the union.The Brexit is a complicated process and two years would be within the EU statutes.As long as the Brexit isn't finalized the UK is still member of the EU with all its duties and rights.
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #542 – 2016-06-26, 06:36:29 Quote from: Frenzie on 2016-06-25, 12:45:35It's a game of chicken. By forcing a speedy decision from the UK there's a chance they'll back out of it. Europe is united; the UK is internally divided. EU leadership couldn't have responded any better, which is a hopeful state of affairs no matter the outcome.As soon as the UK invokes Article 50, they will automatically and irrevocably (even by Britain) be out of the EU two years later. No buts, no recall, no revote. It's a giant chicken indeed. An alternative deal to membership on the other hand needs the strictest form of qualified majority (72% of the countries, 65% of the population), that is 20 countries (excluding UK) and 30.5% of today's EU population (again excluding the UK) would be enough to block an agreement. Have fun with the voting calculator.The EEC 6 (France, Italy, Be-Ne-Lux, Germany (New formula! Now including DDR!) comprise 6 countries (too few) and 54% of the population as Britain has no vote (47% of today's population).A pro-UK mix of the Nordic countries (4 members), Ireland, Netherlands, Poland and Czechia would have 8 countries (enough) and 18% of today's population (barely half). The scheming enemy of Britain is, as we all know, France. Let this latter-day Richelieu look for a block. France has 13% of the population, needs 17.5% more, which would probably be easier than looking for 7 co-conspirators. Spain has had issues with the UK since some marriage arrangements went awry some years ago. That's another 9%. If Italy's 12% came on board that would be a neat Mediterranean alliance and already has 34% of the votes. It wouldn't be enough to block majority today, but will the very day Britain applies Article 50. The two year clock can't be stopped, but could be paused, in theory indefinitely. However that requires unanimity. Any country, including Portugal, including Malta, could block this. If that happens and the negotiations couldn't get through every blocking majority, even if Britain accepted any treaty on the table, in two years Britain would be out with nothing. The status of Britain would be no better than e.g. Burma, arguably worse as Burma has a trade deal with the EU. That would be horrible for the EU, much worse yet for Britain, and bad for the whole world (have you looked to your local stock exchange lately?). Politicians couldn't possibly be so stupid and insane to opt for a result where everyone loses, right? Well...
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #543 – 2016-06-26, 06:49:07 The EU has an "image" problem: They've refused to look in the mirror and see the Gorgon…
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #544 – 2016-06-26, 06:52:22 What you said there made no sense, you know.
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #545 – 2016-06-26, 07:24:04 Of course! Statists always see only what they want to see.Bureaucrats can't imagine a society not ruled by them.
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #546 – 2016-06-26, 07:43:45 The axis of evil: statists, bureaucrats, grammarians
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #547 – 2016-06-26, 09:52:53 Quote from: jax on 2016-06-26, 06:36:29The status of Britain would be no better than e.g. Burma, arguably worse as Burma has a trade deal with the EU.There is a small difference though between Burma and Britain. An immediate trade stop with Burma would hardly seriously hit any of the EU countries while export to Britain is very important to some. So new dissent within EU members is as good as preprogrammed.Quote from: jax on 2016-06-26, 06:36:29Politicians couldn't possibly be so stupid and insane to opt for a result where everyone loses, right? Well...They did it before and I mean the EU and not the USA (even so it happened under havy pressure of the latter) .Didn't they?
Re: What's Going on in Europe Reply #549 – 2016-06-26, 10:40:19 My hope, and belief I think, is that the EU 27+1 are less dysfunctional than the US Congress. It is a strong motivator to be told that if you haven't fulfilled your task by midnight a bomb will go off. Unfortunately it doesn't quite work out that way i practice, and it is a high-risk strategy, much like calling a referendum you don't plan to lose. The classic EEC/EC/EU last minute bargaining were impressive feats of negotiation, even redefining time as fit. However, the earlier bargains were with fewer countries. If they need more time any country can put down an effective veto. Greece in particular did that often back in the days, mostly to good results. The move to offset a veto-blackmail is of course counter-blackmail mixed with a couple perks for good will. A British exit without a trade agreement would of course be bad for Britain and the EU, but it would not be equally bad. Close trading partners, to a large extent close political partners, would feel the burn. That includes France and Germany that both would want an ordered exit. But there are other countries less affected, Slovenia for instance. If Britain crashed and burned it wouldn't have an effect on their economy, unless did it so badly that it would affect Slovenia's major trading partners. So, what's in it for them?There are several countries that have a gripe against the EU. Greek Cyprus, as well as Greece itself, top the list. They may not have particularly much against Britain, but this would be a good time to renegotiate. Nothing personal, business is business. 1 Likes
Topic: What's Going on in Europe (Read 255174 times)
