rj, Its not just watching bang ups like cowboys and Indians. Its a whole culture raised on guns, playing violent video games. Its a culture that has become more crude, that is degenerating. Its one reason why by far we have the most LEO's per capita in the world. We have myriad police forces, Federal, state, local and special forces such as the Port Authority Police in NY/NJ and Bear Mountain Parkway police.
Kids used to be raised with social play - stickball, handball. Now the play is exercising finger and eyes on video games where social interaction is on how many Facebook friends you have.
A troubling video of police shooting a civilian in the back who was walking away. After bring shot hand having fallen on the ground crawling away the police still continue shooting.
Better than 95% of all Americans never had any negative contact with the police.
Oh really? Considering over 25% of Americans have criminal records, I would suspect those same at least 25% of the American population had a negative contact with our police. And lets not count traffic infractions. Unless you count that as positive contacts.
It's very strange that no one has ever asked for the real solution, to send the Legion Etrangére with an heavy back up and international support. That's why they exist for, they are the only ones able to deal with the situation.
Even if that were a solution, the U.S. would object.
The fixed absolute U.S. policy, no matter who is in office, is to be the dominant lead in critical conflict areas of the world. Hence, out very large military with our numerous aircraft carrier fleets.
The real reasons we object to the Russian "help" in Syria is that we don't want competition.
I think the term you're lacking, Jochie, is "relative risk"…
I was trying to politely hint that your attempt of diversion is not appreciated. Thus is a gun thread.
If we had a thread about airline accidents, would I expect someone to bring up car accidents? Suh acs "Don't worry about airline accidents because we have so many more car accidents?".
How quickly we forget: Some years back, some bank-robbers did a military style raid in Los Angeles. Full body armor, seriously heavy guns, the whole military bit. The police found themselves hopelessly outmatched with their standard-issue handguns and shot guns, and had to go to gun-stores to get heavy weapons that might stand a chance of bringing the bad-guys down. The bad guys had no trouble shooting at the police however, their weapons easily pierced the sides of squad cars, so hiding behind the car offered scant protection.
Now you think a concealed pistol is going to stand a chance against terrorists who have come in open for business. Hate to tell you this, but you're gonna need a bigger gun.
So true.
If anything, taking out your little concealed weapon will focus the terrorists on you, causing them to concentrate their firing at you. Then, your chances of surviving is just about zero.
You have the NRA mantra of many being were armed or just being a in gun a friendly state makes you safer. Many mass shootings occur in gun friendly states, where you're allowed to carry. The question then is "Where are all the armed heroes who are ready and can take down the mass shooter?". They're doing what everyone else is doing, trying to get out there and not draw attention upon themselves.
Even armed police are hesitant to run in when an armed shooter is killing. There was a horrific incidents on Rt 9 in NJ, a mass shooting with an AK47. The normal police response in that area when there is an emergency is about three minutes. This time it took almost ten minutes before the cops showed. They don't just run in to be sniped at. First unclip the heavier weapons that are often locked in their trunks or clipped in a holder, then put on the additional body armor and then when enough police were ready enter the area in a group.
I think the term you're lacking, Jochie, is "relative risk"…
I was trying to politely hint that your attempt of diversion is not appreciated. Thus is a gun thread.
If we had a thread about airline accidents, would I expect someone to bring up car accidents? Suh acs "Don't worry about airline accidents because we have so many more car accidents?".
Yes my dear ignorant, all of them were elected by democratic elections. Basically, fuck you. Go to adult learning schools.
Having a gun in Nazi Germany was not an issue. It was actually encouraged.
The Weimar republic had pretty strict gun laws trying to control the various militias. But when A Hitler and his party gained power the militias were not an issue. The main civilian "militaristic" movement was the brown shirts. Guns were encouraged for male civilians, whether they were brown shirts or not. Hitler wanted a masculine militaristic society that was comfortable with guns. Gun clubs were encouraged.
Later some, such as Jews, were denied guns. They were not denied because the Nazi's considered them a threat. They were denied because they were considered to be sub-human, like animals.
Same in Russia. Outside of cities, in rural areas, it was common to have a gun. It helped alleviate the food shortages when the "peasants" were allowed to hunt. There was a movie,"Enemy at the Gates" based on a famous sniper during the Stalingrad siege. The beginning of the movie showed how he learned to shoot, by taking his or his fathers rifle and shooting game. There wasn't a commissar around to supervise his gun usage.
And its true the voters elected this bunch. I knew a Mrs Gold, a very old German woman. Her mother and father owned a large very productive farm in Germany. She also had 8 or 9 children. Both things which protected her. Her mother couldn't stand Hitler and made it known. Once a neighbor went over crying because her son was seriously wounded and she told her neighbor "you voted for him and see this is what you get." She was brought into town twice for her "anti-German" remarks but her daughter said they just talked to her and to her husband and let her go. She thinks it was because of the farm and the many children she had.
However, the point is that people did vote for Hitler, they supported him and he and his party were not afraid of their public having guns. During WW 2 when the were escapes from POW camps, armed civilians were expected to help capture the escapees. They did so willingly.
You can feel "disgusted," Jochie… But is that the best you can find, to react to? Is that really the most pressing problem? (Nothing in your country, for instance…) Bizarre cases occur.
I can react to a lot of things. Like very stupid and venal politicians starting and getting into useless wars.
Police malfeasance is a serious issue. NY City alone pays about 80 million dollars because of police malfeasance. And the settled cases are only the tip of actual incidents. Most cases are never reported and when reported there is mostly no settlement.
Chicago paid over 1/2 billion over 10 years.
The cost is no problem for the cops. They personally don't pay. Its the taxpayers who pay.
Americans worry about ISIS? Maybe they should worry about those who really terrorize the public, the American police, who kill many, many more here than ISIS ever will.
The problem is the political leadership and the fawning love many Americans have for the police, their "protectors." As long as you have politicians excusing cops you allow these types of problems.
Now that the cop is finally charged, the mayor of Chicago said "We hold our police officers to a high standards ..." explaining how wonderful they are in charging him..
As the above article shows, the reality is there is really NO standard. The mayor's statement is self -serving bull shit. After a year they finally charge this cop, then mayor says how the police is held to a high standard with the political and law enforcement elite patting each other on their backs on the great a job they're doing.
Being held for a year or more for trial? The usual response is "so, what, its them not us, they're probably guilty anyway."
To clarify and give a concrete example:
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A Bronx man who spent three years as a teen in Rikers Island enduring beatings by guards and inmates and long stints in solitary confinement without ever being convicted has committed suicide. ... In May 2010, cops arrested Browder on Arthur Ave. in the Bronx after a teen accused him of robbing him of his backpack.
His family was unable to raise his $10,000 bail, so Browder remained locked up in Rikers awaiting trial.
He was offered a plea deal after 33 months, which he refused. As months turned into years, the stress got to Browder and he attempted suicide several times.
Browder spent more than 400 days in solitary confinement.
He was released from Rikers in May 2013 when charges were dropped.
In April, shocking Rikers security footage from September 2012 surfaced showing a correction officer slamming Browder to a cellblock floor and pummeling him. Other footage from 2010, showed Browder being beaten by 10 teen inmates in a wild brawl.
After getting out of jail, Browder enrolled Bronx Community College, but, haunted by his experience at Rikers, suffered bouts with depression that triggered other suicide attempts and a stay at the psych ward at Harlem Hospital.
There are many cases of those held for years awaiting trial due to excessive bail. The constitutional prohibition against excessive bail and for speedy trials is no help to them.
The problem with someone like Warner is that he's capable of lying and does so very well. Blatter may well be guilty but I wouldn't rely on the unsubstantiated word of Warner who will do anything to cover his own ass.
We can survive pretty much anything others can do. You are not so fortunate…
You survive nothing, not even a couple (plus the third one right on the Pentagon) of your own airplanes. Stop trolling Oakdale, it's not proper of you.
Absolutely agree. The whole American culture has changed. The Patriot Act, neighborhoods in NYC off limit to vehicle traffic and some streets even blocked to pedestrian traffic, constant security checks in major office buildings, the TSA security theatre, etc.
Compare that to England, a quote I found
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In 1940-1941 Britain was bombed constantly by the Germans. During one two-month period at the end of 1940 London was bombed every single night -- like having 9/11 every night, in the dark, for two months. They coped. They also grieved and remembered lost loved ones. But they didn't whine and complain about memorials and other grief expression spots for the rest of their lives.
We have more 9/11 memorials in the U.S. and grief expression spots than the actual number of victims.
So far this year, our American police have managed to kill 385 or 2.6 per day in 2015. I wonder what the numbers are for Western European countries like the UK, France, Germany, Holland, Spain, Italy?
He convinced the world's intelligence services that he had -at least- an immanent nuclear capability… That was the last straw. (That's the "simple" version of the story, intended for Europeans.)
Saddam didn't. The intelligence was culled and filtered to justify war. Goring had it right. Manipulating the public is not hard:
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"Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship." ... "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Well, let’s not — because that’s a false narrative, and everyone who was involved in the debate over the war knows that it’s false. The Iraq war wasn’t an innocent mistake, a venture undertaken on the basis of intelligence that turned out to be wrong. America invaded Iraq because the Bush administration wanted a war. The public justifications for the invasion were nothing but pretexts, and falsified pretexts at that. We were, in a fundamental sense, lied into war. The fraudulence of the case for war was actually obvious even at the time: the ever-shifting arguments for an unchanging goal were a dead giveaway. So were the word games — the talk about W.M.D that conflated chemical weapons (which many people did think Saddam had) with nukes, the constant insinuations that Iraq was somehow behind 9/11. ... This was, in short, a war the White House wanted, and all of the supposed mistakes that, as Jeb puts it, “were made” by someone unnamed actually flowed from this underlying desire. Did the intelligence agencies wrongly conclude that Iraq had chemical weapons and a nuclear program? That’s because they were under intense pressure to justify the war. Did prewar assessments vastly understate the difficulty and cost of occupation? That’s because the war party didn’t want to hear anything that might raise doubts about the rush to invade. Indeed, the Army’s chief of staff was effectively fired for questioning claims that the occupation phase would be cheap and easy.
Bad personal news for me and my wife. We just took our cat that we've had for 15 years to the vet's to be euthanized. Odd how personal problems sometimes outweigh the much bigger bad news from elsewhere.
So sad that happened. We have cats and we've gone through that heartbreak.
The Amendments (the first 10 anyway) make the United States Constitution [glow=blue,2,300]"SACRED"[/glow] to the American People.
Maybe that's you been taught in kiddie school.
I've given examples where reality does not match your beliefs. We have politicians, prosecutors and LEO routinely and creatively reinterpret the Bill of Rights for their benefit.
As for it being sacred to the American public? Everyone mouths that but the reality is most people don't give a damn when there are violations, when there are exceptions made to the Bill of Rights.
Asset forfeitures? The public doesn't care.
Being held for a year or more for trial? The usual response is "so, what, its them not us, they're probably guilty anyway."
Excessive bail? No problem. We have to make sure "those people don't get out."
Denying a trial by jury which can convict someone, give them a criminal record and put them a jail for a year? Its so routine for misdemeanors that its not even thought about by the public. Its a given.
The Bill of Rights and the other stuff means sod all in practical life.
I now tend to agree.
The first and second amendment are usually strongly followed because there are powerful groups who make sure they are. For the first it is the media and organized religion. For the second it is the NRA.
The exception to the first amendment is when individuals use the "wrong" speech during a heated moment of confrontation. If you have a fight with a minority and you use the wrong words during the fight then you may be charged with a hate crime, immensely increasing the criminal penalty. A creative way to get around the first amendment.
With the other amendments you are basically on your own. Often they are routinely violated. Even when the violators are found to have violated, usually being government LEO's, they are immunized against civil and criminal punishment.
The amendments are interpreted creatively or when there is a blunt and direct violation the usual recourse is to go to the courts where it can take years to resolve for non high profile cases.
Amendment 4 is routinely violated in governmental asset forfeiture cases. They can grab your stuff for being a suspect, not having been found guilty of anything.
Amendment 6 provides for a speedy trial by jury. Try telling that to suspected criminals held in many localities. NYC comes to mind. There are several 100 held on Riker's Island for over two years awaiting trial. Some even wait for six years. I read an article on this where one person was held for two years for stealing a backpack before charges were dropped.
As for trial by jury, many states exclude jury trials when the charge is a misdemeanor. I live in NJ where the local magistrate can send you to the county jail for up to 1 year without a jury trial for a misdemeanor violation. NJ has more prisoners in county jails sentenced without jury trials than state jail prisoners who were sentenced by jury.
Amendment 8 prohibits excessive bail. Tell that to someone who has a million dollar bail or someone in Rikers Island waiting for over a year for a trial where the bail is unaffordable.
Amendment 10 states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." We know how well that works. Creative interpretation made a joke of this amendment.
An example are motor vehicle laws and regulations. States should set their own speed limits but creatively a national speed limit can be set though the denial of Federal highway and transportation funds.
Remember that in the Middle East, they're used to dealing with war in a way that our Western minds can barely grasp.
Revisiting Hiroshima.
You can add Conventry and Dresden to the list. Also, the cleansing of Eastern Europe populations by the Nazi war machine. And the napalming of villages.
So did Napoleon. Tragic thing is, Hitler might have learned from history if he had chosen to. The same things that got Napoleon's armies helped destroy Hitler's armies--- the Russian winter, and a British adversary that wouldn't stop fighting on the other side.
I wouldn't call it tragic. Had Hitler learned from history he would not have invaded Russia.
If Hitler did not have the losses incurred in Russia and the diversion of military resources needed to fight the Russians the Sicily/Italian campaign would have failed and D-Day would not have been attempted.
The Nazi regime would have lasted until use of nuclear weapons by the US. Considering the Nazi leadership it would have taken a lot more than two cities before surrender.
