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Topic: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West (Read 45488 times)

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #125 –
Coherence is overrated?

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #126 –
Quote from: jax on

Coherence is overrated?
Is pefectionary cumfortble as I walk all over wether imperial American or not.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #128 –
I think we really need to perhaps stand back just a wee bit on the French situation. The media always goes flat out and rubs it's hands on big issues and terrible things. One tv reporter standing on a paris Street was going on about police running about everywhere and you heard sirens all over the place - but not where he was.

When we look at the dastardly things that went on in France we also need to take a deep breath and admit the evil however there is some overtly emotional stuff going on. The French are always tradtionally into emotion and the Republic and all that and we had millions out going over the top with those I am Charlie posters. Then an army of world leaders all arm in arm. The principle of showing support is fine but there were more dead in the london killings and what about America with over 3,000 in one day aT 9/11?

On top of all the French hoo-ha style we had the President waxing about French solidairity all being united and together but he banned the Front Nationale except for it's leader! What hypocrisy was that? The same NF came 3rd in the French Presidential has reps across the country and a large following but the Socialist guy in the palace is something else. So those countries with bigger deaths through Islamist fanatical head cases must play fiddle to a country like France??
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #129 –
Do you hate the French more than the Americans or the French immigrant Muslims? Or the immigrant U.K. Muslims? Or the other way around? Or the Catholics?

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #130 –
 

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #131 –
Speaking of Twitter taggers, Fox News caused some indigestion at Downing Street.

Fox News man is 'idiot' for Birmingham Muslim comments – David Cameron

Quote from: The Guardian
The Fox News commentator who said the British city of Birmingham was a no-go zone for non-Muslims is a “complete idiot”, the prime minister, David Cameron, has said.

“When I heard this, frankly, I choked on my porridge and I thought it must be April Fools’ day,” Cameron said. “This guy’s clearly a complete idiot.”

Terrorism expert Steven Emerson claimed on US news channel Fox News that non-Muslims do not go to Birmingham, which he said had become a “totally Muslim” city. Emerson added:

Quote
In Britain, it’s not just no-go zones, there are actual cities like Birmingham that are totally Muslim where non-Muslims just simply don’t go in.

And, parts of London, there are actually Muslim religious police that actually beat and actually wound seriously anyone who doesn’t dress according to religious Muslim attire.


Emerson later apologised “for having made this comment about the beautiful city of Birmingham”.


All turning into a storm in a Twitpot...

Quote from: Rabeb Othmani

If you are a non-muslim and would  like to visit Birmingham #illridewithyou #FoxNewsFacts


Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #132 –

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #133 –
The late Christopher Hitchens hit the nail on the head some years ago, about the responses to the cartoons that offended the Islamic fundies: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2006/02/cartoon_debate.html


"Islam makes very large claims for itself. In its art, there is a prejudice against representing the human form at all. The prohibition on picturing the prophet—who was only another male mammal—is apparently absolute. So is the prohibition on pork or alcohol or, in some Muslim societies, music or dancing. Very well then, let a good Muslim abstain rigorously from all these. But if he claims the right to make me abstain as well, he offers the clearest possible warning and proof of an aggressive intent. This current uneasy coexistence is only an interlude, he seems to say. For the moment, all I can do is claim to possess absolute truth and demand absolute immunity from criticism. But in the future, you will do what I say and you will do it on pain of death.

I refuse to be spoken to in that tone of voice, which as it happens I chance to find "offensive." (By the way, hasn't the word "offensive" become really offensive lately?) The innate human revulsion against desecration is much older than any monotheism: Its most powerful expression is in the Antigone of Sophocles. It belongs to civilization. I am not asking for the right to slaughter a pig in a synagogue or mosque or to relieve myself on a "holy" book. But I will not be told I can't eat pork, and I will not respect those who burn books on a regular basis. I, too, have strong convictions and beliefs and value the Enlightenment above any priesthood or any sacred fetish-object. It is revolting to me to breathe the same air as wafts from the exhalations of the madrasahs, or the reeking fumes of the suicide-murderers, or the sermons of Billy Graham and Joseph Ratzinger. But these same principles of mine also prevent me from wreaking random violence on the nearest church, or kidnapping a Muslim at random and holding him hostage, or violating diplomatic immunity by attacking the embassy or the envoys of even the most despotic Islamic state, or making a moronic spectacle of myself threatening blood and fire to faraway individuals who may have hurt my feelings. The babyish rumor-fueled tantrums that erupt all the time, especially in the Islamic world, show yet again that faith belongs to the spoiled and selfish childhood of our species."

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #134 –
The tabu against depiction is not unique for Islam. Judaism and Christianity has it as well. Exodus 20:1-12

Quote
1 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.

9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.


How this prohibition actually has been acted upon has depended on religious fashion.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #135 –
IMHO religions, isms , Ideologies , books , etc ...  is not dangerous without Human .

what something need to do is just do not let Psychotic-People have a too easy access to religion .

on the other hand ,  give easier access to mental health care .

since Religions , Weed , Illegal Drugs , Guns , etc is always easier to get than to get  access to mental health care .


not sure if it is  correct   , but it seems  'mericans propagate Mental health  heavily , in movies , etc .

some that i remember ;

Electra --> OCD
Need for speed --> ADD/ADHD
Ironman --> PTSD , Bipolar , Panic attack , etc



Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #136 –
Quote from: jax on

The tabu against depiction is not unique for Islam. Judaism and Christianity has it as well. Exodus 20:1-12

Quote
1 And God spoke all these words:
...
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
...


How this prohibition actually has been acted upon has depended on religious fashion.


The Protestant world has interpreted verse 4 in context of verse 5: "You shall not make for yourself an image (to worship)..."

I really don't know about the Catholic world... :left:

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #137 –
Speaking as a religious man-- specifically a Protestant Christian-- I can say that I, at least, will not shoot, bomb, threaten and so on people who make images of Jesus. Even blasphemous ones. God will take care of all of that in His own good time.

Note: In today's age, if Christians went crazy every time somebody made a blasphemous image of Jesus, we would have time for little else besides burning and bombing. Think of all the images that are out and about, made to enrage. Now, consider that just making an image of any sort of Mohammed gets the Islamic world upset..... do you have any idea how many churches have images of Jesus in them, and if just possessing an image was enough to bring down the wrath-----...
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #138 –
Quote from: Barulheira on
The Protestant world has interpreted verse 4 in context of verse 5: "You shall not make for yourself an image (to worship)..."

I really don't know about the Catholic world...  :left:


Yep, which is the case in Islam as well. The idea is to prevent idolatry. How it is interpreted may vary with period, place, and religion and schism.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #139 –
Must say tt92 for all your forthright stuff here you are not that bright. Typical if one chooses to take a stand on an issue that the word 2hat" comes into things! You would make a good Yank especially a Republican one. You chose to just brush aside the main thrust and i have absolutely no intention of going back on what i said. More were killed in London and a vastly massive more in the USA at the Twin Towers yet we got this over the top emotion from the French. And my view of the President is unchanged and he was quite unprincipled at who could not attend the march. As a place they are more emotional. Their politcs and tradition are steeped in this special view tagged with misty eyes and how special they are. Yeah rememebr the mess of two World wars amongst other things? Why is the shocking that it was murders there automatically more to the top than the savageness in London or the even worse mass killing in New York? As for that magazine everyone has got climbed on to is another almost mass hysteria fired by French emotion over the top.

As for Fox i don't have it nor want it but the journalist who made the mistakes did on news eleswhere come on and deeply apologise for his mistakes and had got his information base as a wrong one. At the same time however Birmingham the GB's second largest city no longer has an indigenous majority and there have been serious problems required the national agency responsible to investigate Muslim dominated schools for some dodgy teaching. London he was right with being no longer indigenous with many from that corner having been able to flight out.

For all that France may have tried to do in it's owwn way to make everyone "French" the Islamic cruels are usaully not new immigrants but from 3rd generation, etc. The one good other thing in France's side is that of the 5 million from Islamic cave dweller origins a big chunk are very religious - some experts say as much as two=thirds so a tick to France on that one! I still say it is an emotional country and a bit too much living in Napoleon's long gone shadow.
"Quit you like men:be strong"
 

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #140 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
Must say tt92 for all your forthright stuff here you are not that bright.
Talk about the skillet calling the fully modern kitchen a slacker! :)

(OK. Got that out of my system…)

One of the things I've read over the last few days is this:
Quote
"The Quran told early Muslims, who routinely faced the mockery of their faith by pagans: 'God has told you in the Book that when you hear God's revelations disbelieved in and mocked at, do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would be like them.' Just 'do not sit with them' — that is the response the Quran suggests for mockery. Not violence. Not even censorship. Wise Muslim religious leaders from the entire world would do Islam a great favor if they preached and reiterated such a non-violent and non-oppressive stance in the face of insults against Islam."
(source)


There are various reactions to the massacre at the Charlie Hebdo Paris office… The other one that caught my eye -immediately- was this:
Quote
"Killing in response to insult, no matter how gross, must be unequivocally condemned ... But neither should we tolerate the kind of intolerance that provoked this violent reaction. [my underlining] Those who work at (Charlie Hebdo) have a long and disgusting record of going way beyond the mere lampooning of public figures, and this is especially true of their depictions of religious figures. ... What (Muslims) object to is being intentionally insulted over the course of many years. On this aspect, I am in total agreement with them.
(source)


My few thoughts:

First, do we really need to wait 700 years for Islam to "catch up"?
No. I don't think so… (My views haven't changed much over the years, and needn't be dwelt on here.) We will have to react to provocations (…a little more serious than mocking-cartoons…).
Why is it that Islamists don't see this?
(Or are they actively seeking a civilizational conflict…? :) )

But I'd like to highlight something that has mostly been overlooked:

Why was a Kosher market targeted by the Charlie Hebdo assassins' confreres? Normal shoppers killed…at a Jewish market?

Do I need to spell it out?
(That would be "second"… But -as usual- I expect an enormous dis-engagement!)
If someone asks me to, I will.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #141 –
I'm sorry to intrude on your reading displeasure: But I need to ask (…anyone who has knowledge of the original -was it in Arabic?- quote) what prompted this atrocity?

Are Jews fair game? Christians? (We -most of us who are one or the other, or apostates of one sort or the other…) need to know: Are we the enemy?
And can you afford such a declaration?

BHO's administration (and many other Western governments) would say yes. What do you -if you are a true believer- think the people will say?

(This topic will implode… Unless no Muslims participate.)

But, before then. I'll ask: What will the people do?
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #142 –
 
Quote
they actively seeking a civilizational conflict…?


Expansionism  , if you know what i mean .

their structure and pattern is almost same with Christianity .
so they also  have Missionaries but  in arabic term ;  something like Habib , Ustad , etc

To expand will need some Power , so they do some unification .
and People that United usually they have  these few factors :

Have the same Enemies ( Real or imaginary enemies )
Have The same Ideology ( Apocalyptic Mind , Victim mentality ,  etc )
Have the same Goal ( Build Utopia land  --> Khilafa , etc )
have the same fate
have the same Personality
etc .

at this point in the surface they have " The same Enemies "  --> Christian and Juice , etc.

Quote
atrocity

non-Muslim ( christian , Juice , Buddhist , Hindi , etc ) is infidels [in arabic  --> Kafirs] .
and killing infidels will got reward --> 72 angels in heaven .

That is why it is necessary  to Prevent Psychotic nor Schizophrenic people that deluded and experiencing hallucination to get access to religions , and give them Anti-psychotics drugs instead

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #143 –
IMHO if some dude like , charlie Hebdo got murdered by those Fundamentalist .
i guess it is because he produce low Quality Satirical contents .

The Best Satire will Harras some groups , but those groups  that harrased will laugh .
not Murder the Satire artist.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #144 –
Quote from: Sparta on
if some dude like , charlie Hebdo

You don't actually seem to have a connection with real people. If you'd like to refer to your "friends" in the cartoon world, please accost them by name!

What is your opinion, about killing people "we" think are nasty? People who offend us?

As more than a few of my contemporaries (and confreres…) have mentioned, free speech is a requisite for rational, reasonable self-government.

But —as you know— not everyone believes in any sort of "self-government"…
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #145 –
no need to be panic sir ..
it doesnot necesarry too , to do some poisoning the well based on assumptions .
and Satire is not always about cartoon .

it is sommething like Criticism in a Funny way .
i am not a satire artist , but i also have made some satirical contents .
in example ;

Stupidity and insanity is genuinely human Rights .

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #146 –
Quote
What is your opinion, about killing people "we" think are nasty? People who offend us?


AFAIK , Killing People is illegal .

so whoever that broke the law should deal with the law .
of course the law in that land .

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #147 –
Quote from: Sparta on
Stupidity and insanity is genuinely human Rights .


Dear heart: You may not have offended me.

Aren't you glad I'm not an adherent of Islam? :) Else, I might have had to kill you… (Depending upon which Imam I followed.) There's a disconnect between rationality and Islam that can't be bridged, until Islam becomes more rational…
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #148 –
Quote
Dear heart: You may not have offended me.


i do not find a good reason to offence you , Sir .
so why assuming i offend you ?


Quote
I might have had to kill you… (Depending upon which Imam I followed.)


actually , i also like to live dangerously .
so this kind of argumentum ad baculum is not something new .

there are already many people that threatening want  to Kill me nor my family . 

mostly it is from Fundamentalist of -isms .
Bigots , Zealots , psychopaths , etc.



Quote
  Islam becomes more rational


I doubt if religion can be sane and rational , especially Abrahamic stream .

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #149 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL on

There are various reactions to the massacre at the Charlie Hebdo Paris office… The other one that caught my eye -immediately- was this:
Quote
"Killing in response to insult, no matter how gross, must be unequivocally condemned ... But neither should we tolerate the kind of intolerance that provoked this violent reaction. [my underlining] Those who work at (Charlie Hebdo) have a long and disgusting record of going way beyond the mere lampooning of public figures, and this is especially true of their depictions of religious figures. ... What (Muslims) object to is being intentionally insulted over the course of many years. On this aspect, I am in total agreement with them.
(source)


Why is it that Islamists don't see this?
(Or are they actively seeking a civilizational conflict…? :) )


The Catholic church has taken the brunt of Charlie through the years, not Muslims. There has been a Muslim issue every other year or so. Charlie is a weekly.

The Islamist groups don't  actively seek a "civilizational" conflict, less than the anti-islamic groups, it's just a bonus. They are in active competition with other Islamist groups, sometimes/some places at outright war, being the enemy number one is a badge of honour. It's a balance. You don't want to piss off your constituency more than your propaganda apparatus can make up for, the constituency isn't all Muslims, only eligible Muslims. On the other hand if other groups get a better brand, your recruiting will suffer.

Pissing off somebody else is thus a good strategy, because the more pissed off they become the more you gain (just be careful not to piss off somebody that is actually in a position to hurt you substantially, like when the predecessors of ISIL/Da'ish were subdued by other Iraqis).