Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Topic: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms? (Read 329986 times)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1200 – 2015-12-06, 16:16:33

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2015-12-05, 20:14:00

Quote from: Jochie on 2015-12-05, 19:45:03

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-12-03, 21:19:19

I think the term you're lacking, Jochie, is "relative risk"…
I was trying to politely hint that your attempt of diversion is not appreciated. Thus is a gun thread.

If we had a thread about airline accidents, would I expect someone to bring up car accidents? Suh acs "Don't worry about airline accidents because we have so many more car accidents?".

How quickly we forget: Some years back, some bank-robbers did a military style raid in Los Angeles. Full body armor, seriously heavy guns, the whole military bit. The police found themselves hopelessly outmatched with their standard-issue handguns and shot guns, and had to go to gun-stores to get heavy weapons that might stand a chance of bringing the bad-guys down. The bad guys had no trouble shooting at the police however, their weapons easily pierced the sides of squad cars, so hiding behind the car offered scant protection.

Now you think a concealed pistol is going to stand a chance against terrorists who have come in open for business. Hate to tell you this, but you're gonna need a bigger gun.

So true.

If anything, taking out your little concealed weapon will focus the terrorists on you, causing them to concentrate their firing at you. Then, your chances of surviving is just about zero.

You have the NRA mantra of many being were armed or just being a in gun a friendly state makes you safer. Many mass shootings occur in gun friendly states, where you're allowed to carry. The question then is "Where are all the armed heroes who are ready and can take down the mass shooter?". They're doing what everyone else is doing, trying to get out there and not draw attention upon themselves.

Even armed police are hesitant to run in when an armed shooter is killing. There was a horrific incidents on Rt 9 in NJ, a mass shooting with an AK47. The normal police response in that area when there is an emergency is about three minutes. This time it took almost ten minutes before the cops showed. They don't just run in to be sniped at. First unclip the heavier weapons that are often locked in their trunks or clipped in a holder, then put on the additional body armor and then when enough police were ready enter the area in a group.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1201 – 2015-12-07, 06:45:02

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-12-03, 21:19:19

I think the term you're lacking, Jochie, is "relative risk"…

Now, there is proof positive that there is at least one person on this forum that understands that point.

Jochie, it seems, can't see the forest for the trees!

Now, this California[glow=black,2,300] "Terrorist Attack" [/glow] proves one more important point. The one law the Anti-Second Amendment Left has been drooling over for years......the California background check laws.....are the laws directly related to this latest mass shooting.

Why?

Because they are the so called Super-Laws, the laws that failed so miserably to stop those two from their jihad in San Berardino. Those phony laws were created to make political points, not to protect anyone.

No one hell bent on obtaining firearms for nefarious reasons can be stopped by any law.

All they can be is prosecuted for breaking the law, but that's very little solace to the victims...those dead, & those wounded, & most of all those that actually believed that such laws would or could actually work as sold by the bombastic left's sales pitches.

So, who will defend us?

Not Congress or any State Legislators.....no law they can pass can stop someone from securing weapons that can be used to take you out if that's what these terrorists/criminals/nut jobs want to do.

Mike alluded to this earlier.

No police force in America can be lucky enough to continually intercede, & break up the act(s) as they are taking place....being committed.... to satisfactorily protect you.

When seconds count, the police are usually minutes away.

You must take responsibility for your own defense.

American Citizens must, if defending their life is important to them, must seek & secure whatever they can to provide for their own defense. The choice on how to do this is their right, & no government has the right to stand in their way!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1202 – 2015-12-07, 08:17:42

There's a point that been repeated here: Perps armed with AKs (of AR-15s) have the advantage… There's "no way" your Glock can take them on!
Plus, if they're wearing body armor — what's the point?

Cops don't train to take "head shots"… You can. But even if you don't, an "active shooter" tends to either suicide or fade — when confronted by an armed citizen.
"Mass shooters" aren't usually trained.

The Jihadis are different. But not so much: They're expecting to die…

Remember how we beat the British, way back when.
———————————————————————————————————
BTW: How many of you have been hit by a live round, wearing a "vest"…?

Pretty cool, huh? From what you've seen in the movies, you'd think you're invincible! 'Taint so.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1203 – 2015-12-07, 12:19:17

Smile goes on about folk not seeing for the wood and the trees. That is surprising as so many wooden top gun madders in the ex-colonies have so much of that nut job content in their brains.

It is high time you changed that bit of paper called a Constitution you always argue you about. The guff about militias was for the revolution time and maybe early 19th century but the world has moved on as you have nationwide police an army and volunteer army (National Guard) so you live in the past as an excuse for your lame and totally ridiculous childishness with guns. Trouble too is that there are so many midget minds over there giving the country and horrible name in the world for the violence and excuses for it. You gun fanatics just haven't grown up

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1204 – 2015-12-08, 00:02:02

Such naifs that believes that they can stop their way for their extirmination by the great "American" values. With pistols.
Never the world saw such ingenuity.
You'll be all destroyed with drones, directed to your facebook location, by those you defend so much. Enjoy.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1205 – 2015-12-08, 03:54:02

The gun clamour minimises not just would-be values but the large percentage of mental immaturity that exists.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1206 – 2015-12-08, 23:21:06

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-12-07, 12:19:17

Smile goes on about folk not seeing for the wood and the trees. That is surprising as so many wooden top gun madders in the ex-colonies have so much of that nut job content in their brains.

It is high time you changed that bit of paper called a Constitution you always argue you about. The guff about militias was for the revolution time and maybe early 19th century but the world has moved on as you have nationwide police an army and volunteer army (National Guard) so you live in the past as an excuse for your lame and totally ridiculous childishness with guns. Trouble too is that there are so many midget minds over there giving the country and horrible name in the world for the violence and excuses for it. You gun fanatics just haven't grown up

See RJ, one thing you fail to understand, & it's been glaring you in the face for years.

Only a small percentage of us Americans actually give a hot damn what the world outside our borders, does or does not think of us. The others enjoy what we have in our world, & like the way we have it.

Gun deaths...shit happens.......mourn.....move on.

Politics......our guy lost......shit happens.......mourn.....move on.....we'll think of something else next time.

Wall Street hiccups....shit happens......mourn......grip yer pants by the waist, pull up........reinvest.....get over it.

Terrorists attack......find out who's behind it.....mourn.....kill a few thousand of them......move on......go back kill a few thousand more.

Better than 95% of all Americans never had any negative contact with the police.

Better than 50% of all Americans never even had a cop say hello to them.

Outside of taxes, most Americans aren't affected by the federal government.......& then outside of lowering taxes, to them government can go bother someone else.....they just want to be left alone.....they know their neighbors, & their neighbors know them.....they are willing to work hard, & want to keep all of what they earn, but grudgingly allow government to have a little.......most Americans are too busy enjoying life, freedom, & liberty to care about the outside world......as long as their table is served, they don't really give a damn about starvation in Africa, or how many British Soldiers were killed in the latest IRA bombing (excluding yours truly...I enjoy a broad smile & a cheer).

In the end.....Americans only care about America.....& only a tiny bit about American interests......if they are forced to by the media.

If we don't need to be bothered.....don't bother us.....we don't give a hot damn how, or if, you exist.

So, RJ your wishes & desires for our future will blow to the four corners, like old dust along the highway, like that of your bones, well before anyone in America gives a hoot about your socialistic ideas or trite platitudes.....then shrug, & get on with what they were doing before you...like a fart in the desert.....gave them momentary pause.

Don't bother us.....we're busy enjoyin' what we have.

And if it makes you feel angry, then this will always be true...........we in America will always have way more of everything,
except envy, than you!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1207 – 2015-12-09, 06:24:15

those who thinks they are liberals should open their mind to conservatives methode .

to stop the shooting crisis is with let the people have more guns .

Afaik that was paradoxical intentions or paradox , or intentional , or maybe just went full retard .

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1208 – 2015-12-09, 18:53:28

Usual nationalistic guff there Smiley! Your country is so damn arrogant and continually interferes with places across the globe as a right. The excuse that Yanks don't care what everyone else thinks about the country is an example of the mass and built-in hypocrisy never mind the equally mass juvenile mind set of too many. You have never grown up as a country and make a mess of what you are running of the place. Kindergarten mind daft about the mass love of guns and every time there is a regular mass killing more guns are bought. folk like yourself might not care a damn what the world thinks as a handy attempt to sidetrack the truth that you lot have a mass mental issue and a nation full of homeless and starving people. You could maybe boast about your daft stance if the nation was being run right but neither of the 2 parties that run the place are a waste of time.

So your basis is fraught with a child like boasting based on a faulty political system.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1209 – 2015-12-09, 23:05:24

Smiley has guns. THAT causes a sleepless night or two.

About the rest-- he can speak for himself. There's lots of Americans that do care about what goes on elsewhere--- if for no other reason than lots of Americans still have relatives "over there".

There is a point where I agree wholeheartedly with Smiley: I don't give a hoot what RJHowie or Belfrager thinks of us. They and people like them are going to hate on America and Americans regardless of what we do, so to heck with them.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1210 – 2015-12-09, 23:41:47

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2015-12-08, 23:21:06

And if it makes you feel angry, then this will always be true...........we in America will always have way more of everything,
except envy, than you!

I suppose that includes stupidity...

I was enjoying your speech but you had to ruin it...

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1211 – 2015-12-10, 03:18:49

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2015-12-08, 23:21:06

Better than 95% of all Americans never had any negative contact with the police.

Oh really? Considering over 25% of Americans have criminal records, I would suspect those same at least 25% of the American population had a negative contact with our police. And lets not count traffic infractions. Unless you count that as positive contacts.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1212 – 2015-12-10, 03:34:34

Quote from: Jochie on 2015-12-09, 19:18:49

Considering over 25% of Americans have criminal records, I would suspect those same at least 25% of the American population had a negative contact with our police.

Would you care to source that statistic, Jochie…?

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1213 – 2015-12-10, 09:01:48

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-12-10, 03:34:34

Would you care to source that statistic, Jochie…?

I managed in less than a minute.

Quote

Over 100.5 million individual offenders were in the criminal history files of the state criminal history repositories on December 31, 2012. (An individual offender may have records in more than one state.)

Do note the parenthetical remark, but also note that just taking that number would lead to the conclusion of a third.

I didn't spot any attempt to remove redundancies during my quick perusal, so a better source may still be required, but this should at least suffice to render the claim of a quarter of the population plausible.

Bureau of Justice Statistics, Survey of State Criminal History Information Systems, 2012, p. 3. <https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bjs/grants/244563.pdf>

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1214 – 2015-12-11, 22:41:38

What the country also has a problem with is an awful wide attitude of no mature sense re guns.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1215 – 2015-12-13, 02:34:30

Quote from: Frenzie on 2015-12-10, 01:01:48

Do note the parenthetical remark, but also note that just taking that number would lead to the conclusion of a third.

I guess you failed your course in statistics…

But -seriously- with the amount of regulatory "law" promulgated in the last 50 years, anyone who doesn't have a record just hasn't been caught! (A parking violation -e.g., not getting back to feed the meter soon enough?). But there's a more serious qualm: Merely applying for "permission" to purchase a firearm seems to be enough to get one's place in the statistics cited…
Oh, my!

I'm more than a third of the way through the "report" — and I've yet to see a declaration, that individuals are what is counted… Does that strike you as odd?

(A foreign diplomat stationed in NYC with hundreds of parking violations would bump the numbers considerably; but not affect "crime in the USA" very much, eh?)
—————————————————————————————————
RJ, have you ever served in the military, or trained with and fired a gun?

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1216 – 2015-12-13, 10:20:46

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-12-13, 02:34:30

But -seriously- with the amount of regulatory "law" promulgated in the last 50 years, anyone who doesn't have a record just hasn't been caught! (A parking violation -e.g., not getting back to feed the meter soon enough?).

I'm not sure what rhetorical game you're playing, since you ought to be well aware that a parking ticket does not lead to a criminal record.

Of course what you say is still true enough for e.g. drug-related victimless crimes and the criminalization of the homeless, but regardless of what you're referring to by saying that "anyone who doesn't have a record just hasn't been caught" — that is an argument in favor of jochie's statement, or at the very least in favor of the plausibility thereof.

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-12-13, 02:34:30

I'm more than a third of the way through the "report" — and I've yet to see a declaration, that individuals are what is counted… Does that strike you as odd? (A foreign diplomat stationed in NYC with hundreds of parking violations would bump the numbers considerably; but not affect "crime in the USA" very much, eh?)

What strikes me as odd is that you missed it the several explicit uses of phrases like "the individual" and "an individual" in the definitions used, although I don't think anyone should need to use the glossary to know that "A record […] includes individual identifiers and describes an individual’s arrests and subsequent dispositions" (emphasis added, p. v). Or for that matter, in the phrase "individual offender" I already quoted earlier.

A hundred million is obviously too many. There'll be a decent percentage with records in two states, fewer with records in three, and so on. But I figured there might be a way to get around this problem. From the report I linked earlier we learned that the FBI maintains something called the Interstate Identification Index (III).

Quote from: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bjs/grants/244563.pdf, p. v

A fingerprint-supported “index-pointer” system for the interstate exchange of criminal history records. Under III, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) maintains an identification index to persons arrested for primarily felonies or serious misdemeanors under state or Federal law. The index includes identification information (such as name, date of birth, race, and sex), FBI Numbers, and State Identification Numbers (SID) from each state that holds information about an individual.

Since this III is finger-print based, it should be (close enough to) duplicate-free.* A quick search learns that "the FBI currently has 77.7 million individuals on file in its master criminal database" (source). Although it's not completely clear whether the III is the "master criminal database" mentioned in the WSJ article or not, a superficial reading would lead us to conclude that a little more than 24% of Americans (or more colloquially, a quarter) does indeed have a criminal record. Actually reading the article reveals the rather disturbing notion that being arrested for something can still negatively affect your life even if you are subsequently cleared, and logically therefore we must wonder whether the (doubtless rather sizable) number of these instances is included in the 77.7 million figure. As far as jochie's claim goes this might invalidate it while in another sense still supporting it. After all, even if the number of meaningful criminal records might be lower, being arrested will most likely be a negative form of contact with the police.**

* Not to be mistaken with error-free. Think fingerprints attached to the wrong person's identity and whatnot.

** A quick search using relevant terms leads to another interesting little fact: almost a third of the US population has probably been arrested at least once by age 23. "By age 18, the in-sample cumulative arrest prevalence rate lies between 15.9% and 26.8%; at age 23, it lies between 25.3% and 41.4%. These bounds make no assumptions at all about missing cases. If we assume that the missing cases are at least as likely to have been arrested as the observed cases, the in-sample age-23 prevalence rate must lie between 30.2% and 41.4%. The greatest growth in the cumulative prevalence of arrest occurs during late adolescence and the period of early or emerging adulthood." <http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/129/1/21.full>

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1217 – 2015-12-13, 13:22:28

As with AGW denialists, there's no apparent system to the arguments of gun proponents. After hundreds of posts, some rather basic questions, which I have presented in the first few pages, still remain unadressed.

In what sense is gun ownership a right? Is it like a right to life/property that every citizen should enjoy? Or is it like the right to drive a car - earned when you qualify for it and obtain the relevant license?

If it's the former, i.e. the right of every citizen - no questions asked, no bureaucracy involved -, then the gun proponents' argument "gun ownership by law-abiding citizens reduces crime" is pure bunkum, because in the process of distributing guns there's no mechanism to distinguish a law-abiding citizen from a non-law-abiding one. And when everybody owns a gun or some, there's nothing intrinsically guaranteeing that law-abiding citizens outnumber non-law-abiding citizens.

Besides, there's nothing intrinsically guaranteeing that laws would be laws in the relevant sense, protecting order, social harmony, and greater good. Consequently, law-abiding citizens are not always necessarily the better part of the society.

If it's the latter, so that guns should be owned only by people who are actually able to handle guns, and there are relevant regulations and licenses in place to ensure a working filter in the distribution of guns, then in what sense is the right to gun ownership different from gun control? Why should there be any tension? The only reason I see is lack of definitions so that extremists with no ability to discern issues are given free reign and no reason to actually discern the issues.

So, why should you pass a driving school before driving in actual traffic on public streets, but be free to carry lethal weapons around without any relevant preparation? Or is the analogy inapplicable? How?

As to specifically American quirks of the topic, why do the proponents ignore the part of the Second Amendment that says "A well regulated militia being necessary..."? Does it not say "regulated" right there? Does it not say "militia being necessary", i.e. gun rights are not just so because (either no reason given or some imaginary hysterical extra-textual conspiratory "right of the people to protect themselves against the tyranny of the state") but clearly stating the reason - to be able to mobilise organised armed groups. The Second Amendment makes it plain enough that gun rights are collective rather than individual, and regulated rather than free in the libertarian or anarchist sense.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1218 – 2015-12-13, 14:08:14

Quote from: ersi on 2015-12-13, 13:22:28

If it's the former, i.e. the right of every citizen - no questions asked, no bureaucracy involved -, then the gun proponents' argument "gun ownership by law-abiding citizens reduces crime" is pure bunkum, because in the process of distributing guns there's no mechanism to distinguish a law-abiding citizen from a non-law-abiding one. And when everybody owns a gun or some, there's nothing intrinsically guaranteeing that law-abiding citizens outnumber non-law-abiding citizens.

Besides, there's nothing intrinsically guaranteeing that laws would be laws in the relevant sense, protecting order, social harmony, and greater good. Consequently, law-abiding citizens are not always necessarily the better part of the society.

Nice reasoning but you forgot a most important aspect, the Biblical dimension scene of half of the citizens shooting the other half. That's what drives them, the Great Divider made of a childish vision of a OK Corral duel fight between Right and Wrong.

That and the acceptance, if not pure and simple satisfaction, for man hunting, chasing people as animals. That's what the world can astonishingly watch in those police shooting citizens videos at a daily basis.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1219 – 2015-12-13, 14:51:37

Basically there is a widespread immature emotion on this whole matter of the right of gun ownership. It was a meant for the early days of the establishing of the country and the equally early war fare. However unlike elsewhere the gun fanaticism was kept right into more modern times when there is a massive military, police everywhere so the early right to bear arms has no logic today and in a sensible country that would be a natural progress. Instead in America they go bonkers on the right to carry arms based on centuries ago. It is amongst the world's most violent countries and that buying guns does not stop at handguns either as everyone knows. More and more are bought every year and it makes the place look daft and completely goes against all the principled claims of being a great country. That the number of gun owners is well into the nine figures it makes a farce of having a military. That there are so many using the late 18th and early 19th century as a weak and childish excuse is completely stupid.

Now we get stuff like a dad guy with a gun needs to be sorted with a good guy with one? How damn childish is that and it is would have to be aired? What we can get in this thread is that they don't care what the world thinks. Well fine keep your snout out of the rest of the planet and your military and do something inside instead. What all the gun freaks are doing is making the country look totally out of sync with common-sense, decency, maturity. How can you proclaim to be a great democracy for the world to follow and a wonderful place that is so damn dangerous it has to have over 200 million gun owners having from pistols ot virtual machine guns. Just admit the country is a danger and get near a feeble answer.

This thread was started on Opera originally and the gun child brought it here and it hasbeen well over done and going nowhere. That the gun lobby only emphasises the crime and violence thing means nothing to that lobby and that damnable Constitution argument is not right today. And another thing the gun freaks do NOT lower the terrible totals of gun killings annually and the whole idea of vast numbers carrying guns to play at soldiers is dangerous, stupid and makes the decent in the country wonder what went wrong as the country grew up. With the crime and jail stats the gun play school the decent and sensible Americans can only sigh because their country is a dangerous laughing stock of the world.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1220 – 2015-12-14, 04:36:43

Sounds like these lil hoplophobic cretins, headed by none other than [glow=green,2,300]RJ,[/glow] [glow=black,2,300] The Supreme Hoplophobe Hizself,[/glow] haven't got the foggiest concept of Self-Defense.

Well, makes no difference.....they have no say whatsoever in our laws, & no say in our Constitution, that will surely outlive all of them & their posterity, completely intact.

Recent lawful self-defense, where the clerk will not be charged for defending his life & property:

Source: WBAL TV

Quote

A 68-year old clerk was working at Towson Wine & Spirits in Towson, Md. when two men entered and attempted to rob the store. One of the thieves drew a gun and pointed it at the clerk, who responded by retrieving a handgun from a drawer and shooting the criminal. The robbers fled the scene, but the wounded criminal collapsed and died just outside the store........

[glow=blue,2,300]God Bless the Second Amendment! [/glow]

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1221 – 2015-12-14, 07:07:39

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2015-12-14, 04:36:43

Sounds like these lil hoplophobic cretins,...

Oh, so when all rational argument fails, gun proponents adopt the attitude of gay marriage proponents, and the topic becomes how everybody is homophobic/hoplophobic. That's a cute diplomatic turn and really helps people to genuinely understand your point of view, right?

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1222 – 2015-12-14, 16:06:17

Unfortunately for the sensible Americans who come on here, SmileyFaze DOES represent tens of millions of idiots and childish, immature mind setting. They are a large blight on the country and he cannot deal with the subject intellectually but the usual guff. Why have such a large military/ Spend half the global military bill and have a police service blighted by John Waynes who would not get the uniform elsewhere? And note to that he IS a terrorist sympathiser using his dopey thinking as a justification for evil people on the emerald isle. His thinking is an affront to the decent the people who sigh at gun fanatics and such stupidity. His corner does not care a damn what anyone else in the world thinks which shows a mental immaturity of the worst order. Indeed in thinking of not caring a damn he detracts from the country's traditional claims of principles enshrined in that Constitution which his mindless lot misuses for modern days.

He dragged this basic thread for ages in Opera and his juvenile thinking did the same here and it is time that we stopped giving into his stupidity and that he is not doing his country any benefit at all and we should all stop posting in this thread as it will only go on and on and please remember it dragged on for ages on Opera and he is being allowed to do the same here as long as we all allow him. I for one am going to stop reading this thread so he can dashed well label all he wishes as I will not know it and it would make positive sense for everyone to equally do the same. Flogged it to boredom on Opera and then here it would make concrete sense not to give him continued space to make a farce of himself and the decent in America never mind that sickening misuse of symbols.

So 'bye to this thread as I will NOT be reading a single thing on it and when I left Primary School for senior school at 11, I put away childish things. So farewell to the kindergarten guff. You are just playing into his stupidity.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1223 – 2015-12-14, 17:14:39

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-12-14, 09:06:17

Why have such a large military/ Spend half the global military bill and have a police service blighted by John Waynes who would not get the uniform elsewhere?

Why defending Europe, of course. Several decades of having money to spend on social reforms and you're right back to thinking you know best. It'd be cute if it wasn't such a spit in the eye of history. But naturally most of the guff comes from modernly irrelevant sub-cultures. Little England and little Spain can say whatever they want... It's all they have left.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1224 – 2015-12-15, 02:55:18

Many may have noticed I've not been online much.

That's because I've landed a contract with the Assad Gov't in Syria............to make land mines that look like Muslim Prayer Rugs.

Let me tell you that business has been booming and prophets have been going through the roof!!

Poll

Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to own, carry, & use Firearms to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends?