Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Topic: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms? (Read 329948 times)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1175 – 2015-11-27, 09:09:48

Do any of you here ever wonder, considering how lethal and malicious Howie thinks America's law enforcement organizations are, why he also thinks "regular" citizens should be un-armed…?

Anyone else have any thoughts, about giving the U.S. Attorney General carte blanche to decide -without any requirement to explain abrogations of constitutional rights- who is and who is not subject to the 2nd Amendment…?
(And don't give me the usual clap-trap about "safety": We're all on-record, about the NSA's meta-data collection program! The so-called "right to privacy" is an extension of our 4th Amendment's protections; this is a more serious matter.
Folks in Europe -and elsewhere- have no comparable traditions. Indeed, folks in Great Britain never really got them.)

RJ, there's a faction in the Democrat Party (…our current president is a prominent member) that requires an un-armed citizenry. Your solution: More Soap Boxes!

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And you still don't care, that your so-called police let sexual predators (and politicians — of whom you have a great many, of very many stripes: Democracy! As you'd have it…) preyed upon more than a generation of your young girls… Because to call a predator such, if his skin color or ethnicity is "protected", is verboten — no matter what he does.
You accept Political Correctness at home, in your nation. And decry it elsewhere… Indeed, almost everywhere else!
It isn't that you don't understand hypocrisy. It's that you're so besotted by it that you have to strike out at any foreign example — to calm your fears of retribution.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1176 – 2015-11-28, 00:07:53

The People doesn't need that "authorities" gives them guns, or even worst, allows them to have guns.
The People are the Authority regardless any "Law" made by the non-People.

Tired of such idiotic American discussion made too keep the People always under control.

In Europe, where no "one can have a gun", outside cities everybody has several two barrel rifles.

The question is not the guns but who do you kill with.

Stop your idiotic discussions. You're very wrong if you think that you wouldn't get killed by an European riffle.
Learn with Europeans, you can't do nothing but that.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1177 – 2015-11-28, 00:35:26

OK--- that's a first. I've heard of double-barreled shotguns. They were--- and maybe still are-- common enough especially in rural districts. Double-barreled rifles? OK, I gotta look that up.

You're right about one thing though--- you don't want to be on the wrong end of a double-barreled weapon whether it's a shotgun or a rifle.

Edit; add-on: OK, looked it up. Yes, double-barreled rifles exist--- and they're serious big-bore big game hunting rifles. Get on the wrong end of an elephant gun--- you won't make that mistake twice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_rifle

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1178 – 2015-11-28, 05:25:29

Oakdale you do your corner no intellectual good at all rabbiting on about that town in England and sex offences. How that dash well compares to the crime and violence in the ex-colonies is totally ridiculous. Remember too that our routine police carry out their duties without carrying a damn gun. And I still stand by what I said about the mentality of too much of your city police forces and having had a long tradition of being allowed to think they can beat people up and shoot them is almost as long as that constitution.

One can generally understand someone wanting to defend their corner but your place is the world champion ofr the John Wayne police mental midgets and the armies of people in jails. Gun mad as a right - for goodness sake that is a national disgrace and does say something about national mentality! Of course there are lots of sensible people over there and I am sure a number of them must sigh at what is taken for almost granted but far too many are of a juvenile mindset and that includes the tens of millions of would-e Wyatt Earps and the citizenry. Give a Yank a uniform and people should hide (!)

Tut, tut, dear book fanatic you are undermining yourself without me!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1179 – 2015-11-28, 11:45:20

Restricting the usage of guns to recreational and hunting activities was an huge step in terms of civilizational evolution and the interesting part is that it was very much a voluntary thing by the populations here in Europe. A perfectly peaceful change that happened with no resistance. People wanted it.

It happens that we're reaching the end of that civilizational stage and guns will return simply because guns will be needed again and will be needed by the populations in order to resist and defend themselves from the dangers that will arrive under the form of the "New Order".
It's a mistake to think that civilization will evolve always to be a better and better thing, it will not. The good times are already past.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1180 – 2015-11-29, 09:20:00

I have always been for gun controls whilst I note Switzerland has a large gun ownership situation but totally different from the mindset in the US.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1181 – 2015-11-30, 03:32:39

Quote from: Belfrager on 2015-11-28, 03:45:20

Restricting the usage of guns to recreational and hunting activities was an huge step in terms of civilizational evolution and the interesting part is that it was very much a voluntary thing by the populations here in Europe. A perfectly peaceful change that happened with no resistance. People wanted it.

Did they want Franco, Mussolini and Hitler?

It hardly mattered, with a dis-armed populace…
There is some utility to keeping "the gub'mint" humble.
And invaders unsure.
At the beginning of WW II (for the U.S. …), the Japanese would surely have landed on our west coast — but for the certain knowledge that Americans were well-armed.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1182 – 2015-11-30, 03:48:06

What an utter silly and un-intellectual bit of nonsense that is Oakdale. A country awash with damn guns, killing in sprees and so on is an excuse for all those weapons using dictators elsewhere as an excuse?? Trouble is that there are millions of mindsets like yours across the country and the intelligent Americans get nipped at their country being lampooned? Small wonder the government has been concerned about education when there are so many people with limited grey cells. Those from the States who moan about being sniped at should stop avoiding looking internally at the tens of millions of who follow the Oakdales of the country.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1183 – 2015-11-30, 04:06:08

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-11-29, 19:48:06

Small wonder the government has been concerned about education when there are so many people with limited grey cells.

Nonsense, RJ: We're (most of us) following the Scottish mode — teaching illiteracy, innumeracy and ill-logic! We'll become the tame house-pets you are soon enough, if we don't put off the yoke of federal control…
That'd probably make you happy. But you won't live to see it: It'll take longer than imagined, by those who want it.

Or do you dispute the fact that our decline in education (…not higher education, of course: propaganda needs to be propagated, after all!) is the result of federal meddling?

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1184 – 2015-11-30, 17:03:48

I'm much more concerned about the RJHowies of our country than I am about the Oakdales. Though I do admit that the Smileyfazes give me a few shakes.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1185 – 2015-12-01, 00:54:49

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-30, 03:32:39

Did they want Franco, Mussolini and Hitler?

Yes my dear ignorant, all of them were elected by democratic elections.
Basically, fuck you. Go to adult learning schools.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1186 – 2015-12-01, 03:32:06

Quote from: Belfrager on 2015-12-01, 00:54:49

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-30, 03:32:39
Did they want Franco, Mussolini and Hitler?

Yes my dear ignorant, all of them were elected by democratic elections.
Basically, fuck you. Go to adult learning schools.

Having a gun in Nazi Germany was not an issue. It was actually encouraged.

The Weimar republic had pretty strict gun laws trying to control the various militias. But when A Hitler and his party gained power the militias were not an issue. The main civilian "militaristic" movement was the brown shirts. Guns were encouraged for male civilians, whether they were brown shirts or not. Hitler wanted a masculine militaristic society that was comfortable with guns. Gun clubs were encouraged.

Later some, such as Jews, were denied guns. They were not denied because the Nazi's considered them a threat. They were denied because they were considered to be sub-human, like animals.

Same in Russia. Outside of cities, in rural areas, it was common to have a gun. It helped alleviate the food shortages when the "peasants" were allowed to hunt. There was a movie,"Enemy at the Gates" based on a famous sniper during the Stalingrad siege. The beginning of the movie showed how he learned to shoot, by taking his or his fathers rifle and shooting game. There wasn't a commissar around to supervise his gun usage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Zaytsev

And its true the voters elected this bunch. I knew a Mrs Gold, a very old German woman. Her mother and father owned a large very productive farm in Germany. She also had 8 or 9 children. Both things which protected her. Her mother couldn't stand Hitler and made it known. Once a neighbor went over crying because her son was seriously wounded and she told her neighbor "you voted for him and see this is what you get." She was brought into town twice for her "anti-German" remarks but her daughter said they just talked to her and to her husband and let her go. She thinks it was because of the farm and the many children she had.

However, the point is that people did vote for Hitler, they supported him and he and his party were not afraid of their public having guns. During WW 2 when the were escapes from POW camps, armed civilians were expected to help capture the escapees. They did so willingly.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1187 – 2015-12-01, 04:00:29

Can I say that the people like me over there haven't got a provervbial chance of hell getting anywhere hence the big decline in your voting mjsmsprt40. In fact your system is too confined to the two giants BOTH of whom have corporate string pullers.

As for your mutterings, Oakdale getting educated over there is probably a waste of time as your are all under control freakery and Wall Street minds. The average Joe there has not a dashed clue where most of the places the US destabilises or invades are. The media is very subtle both tv and papers in what they actually tell people. Mind you, I do feel sorry for those who are not Oakdales and Smileys because they may well have active grey cells but no chance of changing much. Democracy? Now there is a laugh!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1188 – 2015-12-01, 04:50:43

Quote from: Belfrager on 2015-11-30, 16:54:49

Yes my dear ignorant, all of them were elected by democratic elections.
Basically, fuck you. Go to adult learning schools.

Somebody's panties are really in a twist…

Machismo is the male equivalent of female "modesty"! Yes, they were elected; was the electorate intelligent enough to know what they were getting? (That's always the main problem with democracy, you know. Or you would know, had your gone beyond pleasing professors… (Of course, that's just a guess on my part: You may well be a high-school drop-out.

) Your "sheeple" probably got what they deserved, by your lights.
If only there was a King strong enough to rule…

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@RJ: Is your God named Democracy? Bow — to the lowest common denominator!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1189 – 2015-12-03, 04:02:01

We now have a mass shooting every day in the US of A. A mass shooting is defined as a shooting that kills four or more. This was at least the 356th mass shooting in the United States this year.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/active-shooter-incident-san-bernardino-california-article-1.2453002

Today there were two, a shooting that killed 14 and wounded 17 and another that killed only 4.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/gunmen-slay-14-in-calif-in-deadliest-mass-shooting-since-sandy-hook/2015/12/02/c07045a8-9938-11e5-8917-653b65c809eb_story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/02/the-other-mass-shooting-that-happened-today-in-the-united-states/

American soldiers killed in wars: 1.4 million

American civilians killed by guns in peace time: 1.5 million

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1190 – 2015-12-03, 07:07:00

Quote from: Jochie on 2015-12-03, 16:02:01

American soldiers killed in wars: 1.4 million

American civilians killed by guns in peace time: 1.5 million

Nobody ever promised that Freedom & Liberty would be free. There is a cost to everything.

BTW......Your sources?

Actually, murder by firearm is way lower each year compared to:

[glow=black,2,300]New Study Confirms[/glow] 440,000 Deaths from Medical Negligence [glow=black,2,300]Every Year.[/glow]

http://www.medicalmalpracticelawyer.center/2014/05/new-study-confirms-440000-deat.html

How many firearm murders (not overall firearm deaths) are committed each year on average as opposed to suicides, as opposed to justifiable homicides...etc...etc.

Do you know, or are you just spouting emotional babble that has no new significance related to America's Right to Own & Bear Arms?

In 8 short years medical malpractice exceeds both firearm (weapon related) figures combined.

Medical malpractice is (should be) way more controllable than controlling a nut-job with a gun, which comes to pass at a way lower incidence rate than does medical malpractice.

You can't use malpractice to defend your family from intruders, but legitimately you can use a firearm.

Thousands upon thousands of Americans use firearms for self-defense each year with the sole motive to preserve life, not destroy life. Most uses never need a shot to be fired.

Malpractice isn't a doctors right, but owning & carrying a firearm is, & for many legitimate reasons too.

So, what's your point in that comparison of yours anyway??

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1191 – 2015-12-03, 18:22:26

What does medical negligence have to do with gun control? Are the medically negligent using guns?

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1192 – 2015-12-03, 21:19:19

I think the term you're lacking, Jochie, is "relative risk"…

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1193 – 2015-12-04, 10:26:56

You are right to note Jochie that health issues do have NOTHING to do with the rampant gunning down. It only proves why the mental health corner is so bit over there I am afraid. The misuse of the historical words like freedoms and rights thus in Smiley (and Oakdale's) echo chamber instead of brain cells the right for mass murder running into hundreds nation-wide and bulleting around 12,000 a year is a "right." And in Smiley's case a would-be yakker about principles includes Irish terror murderers as great. Kind of detracts from any sense of principle. Note he waves the American symbols as a great thing and one must feel for the normal and decent minded Americans who have to put up with unfortunately such wide hypocrisy.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1194 – 2015-12-04, 23:25:15

You, RJ, would blame the IRA on America…?

Silly goose. Squawk on, Scot!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1195 – 2015-12-05, 02:25:56

One of the most effective ways to defeat terrorist organisations and other organised criminality is to go for the funding. The IRA could find funding and sympathisers in America, same way as e.g. al Shabaab has found it among the Somali diaspora.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1196 – 2015-12-05, 12:39:05

It is perhaps a wide spectrum forum this as it includes the dopey (eg. OakdaleFTL). Vast sums were deposited to the Irish terrorist scum by Americans who have as much idea and knowledge of that emerald isle as ex-colonists have about the outside world. Mind you with America so mentally deficient when it comes to being awash with guns, common sense can soon disappear. Can I pass on to Oakdale that I am sure you will pass the annual 10,000 killings with guns this year and keep up being top of everything in the world! You have already beat last year's total in mass killings (over 350+) but the sensible ion this forum are of course intelligent and aware that the Oakdale and Smiley mentality although large in the nut job par of the globe thankfully does not include all in a country that has positives like family values, decency and common sense. It is just that the nutjob reflectors on the forum do represent a large following and my heart goes out to the millions of decent and sensible in the ex-colonoes.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1197 – 2015-12-05, 19:45:03

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-12-03, 21:19:19

I think the term you're lacking, Jochie, is "relative risk"…

I was trying to politely hint that your attempt of diversion is not appreciated. Thus is a gun thread.

If we had a thread about airline accidents, would I expect someone to bring up car accidents? Suh acs "Don't worry about airline accidents because we have so many more car accidents?".

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1198 – 2015-12-05, 20:14:00

Quote from: Jochie on 2015-12-05, 19:45:03

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2015-12-03, 21:19:19

I think the term you're lacking, Jochie, is "relative risk"…
I was trying to politely hint that your attempt of diversion is not appreciated. Thus is a gun thread.

If we had a thread about airline accidents, would I expect someone to bring up car accidents? Suh acs "Don't worry about airline accidents because we have so many more car accidents?".

Blame Smiley for this one. He's the one that brought in the stray. And, yes--- in an attempt to deflect from the main subject.

About the recent slaughter in San Bernadino, I suspect nothing could have been done to stop that. There are underground sources where you can get doggone near any kind of weapon you want, and this couple managed to "fly under the radar" until they struck. Further, they managed to get info for bomb-making from the Dark Web, where-- once again-- it seems you can get doggone near anything.

I will take this moment to argue with those who say if somebody in the building had a concealed gun this might have turned out different. I don't think so. This couple was wearing body armor, and that sort of armor is designed to protect from small-arms fire. A more likely story is that the person with the concealed gun would have been targeted as soon as he/she pulled out the weapon, and would be counted among the dead. Concealed carry just can't go up against people who come in wearing armor and using military-style weapons.

How quickly we forget: Some years back, some bank-robbers did a military style raid in Los Angeles. Full body armor, seriously heavy guns, the whole military bit. The police found themselves hopelessly outmatched with their standard-issue handguns and shot guns, and had to go to gun-stores to get heavy weapons that might stand a chance of bringing the bad-guys down. The bad guys had no trouble shooting at the police however, their weapons easily pierced the sides of squad cars, so hiding behind the car offered scant protection.

Now you think a concealed pistol is going to stand a chance against terrorists who have come in open for business. Hate to tell you this, but you're gonna need a bigger gun.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1199 – 2015-12-06, 13:30:52

Well if the country was not so gun mad and the gun lobby so powerful things would be different.

Poll

Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to own, carry, & use Firearms to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends?