The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Topic: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga (Read 347370 times)

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1750 – 2016-11-15, 02:45:56

the worst part is republican win all chairs .

so even president trumps doing something nasty .

it will not that easy to impeach him

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1751 – 2016-11-15, 04:28:30

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-14, 08:39:33

Sang. calling rawstory a partisan "hit" factory is -- repeating the Main Stream Media's view...

I never knew you were a fan of the mainstream media. Anyway, I see you still can't answer the question. Did Giuliani admit the Trump campaign had inside FBI or not? Just the facts, sir. And I still didn't HuffPo as a resource, you repeating an editorial line from a source I didn't cite is baffling a best. It's probably the Republican strategy of repeating the big lie/insinuation over and over again, trying to get gullible people to believe it.

Oh yeah, did I ask you if the Rawstory article is correct enough times or not? I'm not allowing you to dance around this. I'm considering you not be able to admit that Giuliani spilling the beans on this tantamount to acknowledgment that the article is correct.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1752 – 2016-11-15, 05:57:02

Quote from: midnight raccoon on 2016-11-14, 20:28:30

Oh yeah, did I ask you if the Rawstory article is correct enough times or not? I'm not allowing you to dance around this. I'm considering you not be able to admit that Giuliani spilling the beans on this tantamount to acknowledgment that the article is correct.

No one else seems to have the story… So, asking repeatedly is kinda silly. And your contention that Rudy received information illegally from the FBI is just your usual conspiracy theorizing…

I'm pretty sure your pre-conception aura animated the second gunman on the grassy knoll in Dallas on November 22, 1963… Prove me wrong, Sang! (Just using your style of argument…)

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1753 – 2016-11-15, 16:11:02

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-15, 05:57:02

No one else seems to have the story...

Clearly you didn't look. I told you before to get away from the rightwing blogs. I found it merely by going on Google News. This is actually not new - at all.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/04/politics/rudy-giuliani-hillary-clinton-email-fbi/

Quote

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani now denies that he was told by FBI agents that the bureau was reviewing newly discovered emails potentially related to Hillary Clinton's use of a private server before the review was publicly revealed.

Earlier, he had suggested that he was told by FBI agents about the review before it became public.
Giuliani, a top Donald Trump surrogate and adviser, told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on "The Situation Room" Friday that the FBI's announcement "came as a complete surprise, except to the extent that maybe it wasn't as much of a surprise."'

"I got it all from former FBI agents. Tremendous anger within the FBI about the way, number one, Jim Comey's conclusion (to not recommend criminal charges in July) and, number two, the way they believed they were being obstructed by what they regard as a pretty corrupt Obama Justice Department," Giuliani said. "Cutting off a grand jury investigation, cutting off subpoenas."
But earlier Friday, Giuliani, a former federal prosecutor, said he had "heard about" a forthcoming FBI announcement before it became public.
"This has been boiling up in the FBI. I did nothing to get it out. I had no role in it. Did I hear about it? Darn right I heard about it," Giuliani said on "Fox and Friends." He continued, "I can't even repeat the language I heard from the former FBI agents."
A week earlier -- before Comey's disclosure to Congress -- he told Fox News there was a "pretty big surprise" coming, though he did not provide further details. He told Blitzer the surprise was an upcoming advertising campaign: "I knew that was going to come as a big surprise."

Giuliani insisted to Blitzer that he did not receive a tip from someone currently in the FBI.
"In my case, it's real simple: I've talked to no FBI agent, I've talked to no Justice Department official. I have no idea about who's leaking information."

The former mayor added that everyone he does talk to in the FBI is a former agent.
Blitzer reminded Giuliani that in an October 28 interview on "The Lars Larson Show," the former mayor said he was in contact with former agents "and a few active agents, who obviously don't want to identify themselves."

"Well, the information I've been getting is from former FBI agents," Giuliani told Blitzer. "If I did say that, that was wrong."
Clinton campaign press secretary Brian Fallon suggested earlier Friday that an inspector general could have grounds to look into the possible leaking of information to Giuliani.

"This sure seems like adequate grounds for an Inspector General review," he tweeted.

Or is CNN a liberal hit machine as well? Giuliani boosts about his connection to FBI agents, but tries to backtrack once it dawns on him there are ethical violations with getting prior knowledge. If you really didn't know this happened, where have you been? Mars?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1754 – 2016-11-15, 22:17:41

When I said "no one else seems to have the story" I was talking about the rawstory piece you linked to, Sang… Your including speculation about Giuliani, what he knew and how he knew it, lets you pretend you didn't know that. But your pretensions don't bother me!

When and if there's any kind of investigation, we'll see if there's anything to the Giuliani story you're trying to sell… (I expect the inspector general is competent to handle it, up to and including if there is anything actionable or prosecutable. Much as expect rumor to satisfy you!)

BTW: Washington leaks like a sieve! Always has… I'm surprised you hadn't heard!

So: Are you thinking that Mrs. Clinton can get a do-over of the election?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1755 – 2016-11-16, 04:54:01

Strikes one that all those legions of young Americans on the streets have a problem even if coming from reasonable homes and so-called liberal thinking. Some of the things they come out with in spluttering childish moans is almost laughable. They were no better principled than much of the stuff labelled on the winner. You cannot boast on democracy then moan when you lose. Now we are getting this stuff about one of the 17 security agencies you lot need over there. On Clinton's side she came out with utter midden (garbage to ex-colonists) about Putin and Russia influencing the electoral system. No proof -nothing. Did they campaign as many now are mouthing at over the electoral college stuff before the vote? nope. The media went into over-drive on Clinton and not surprising as the corprates are in the Clinto corner as well.

The wider trouble is that for all the so-called liberal mindedness proclaimed by young democrats mostly from good home lives the hard fact is there are millions of very lost Americans who lost out when the factories closed and the corporates extended overseas instead. Did the would-be "liberal minds" go on about that? no they damn well didn't. There were some folk who voted Trump because they are fed up with much of the system and what goes on in DC while the armies of lower down people who lost out on wide industry closure were just simply ignored and that was not just by the traditional Republicans but the Democrats as well so they needn't try to be overly principled. Trump is not a traditional Republican and I still think he is a bit of a form of populist.

Krake is hitting the head with a justifiable hammer as the election is over. Time this subject was left to go and the country now has to wait and see the direction instead of running about like a bunch of wee bairns in a nursery. You boast about democracy so have had it now get on with things. You couldn't get me so tough.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1756 – 2016-11-16, 05:50:04

Of course Howie wants to stop talking, when he's finally been forced to admit his position — and how silly it is!

Our problem is typical of democracies: It's not that it's getting "wider," although it is. And it isn't that it's getting smaller in compass; it isn't. It's the same as it always has been: Democracy only works, if you win!
And it really is silly to decry populism, which is the hallmark of democracy, RJ!

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1757 – 2016-11-16, 07:27:06

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-15, 22:17:41

Your including speculation about Giuliani,

What speculation is that? CNN confirms that he, in fact, said this. This is not rumor. There is not escaping this. I'm not saying there's going to be an investigation, the Republicans remain in control of both the House and Senate thanks to their gerrymandering. This reduces the chance there will actually be an investigation that goes anywhere. Also understand that Trump getting impeached might even be the best thing for the LGBTQ, since this would be Pence president. But the possibility of impeachment proceedings stemming from fraud and racketeering remain until the trial clears this up.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1758 – 2016-11-16, 08:09:36

Quote from: rjhowie on 2016-11-16, 04:54:01

There were some folk who voted Trump because they are fed up with much of the system and what goes on in DC while the armies of lower down people who lost out on wide industry closure were just simply ignored and that was not just by the traditional Republicans but the Democrats as well so they needn't try to be overly principled.

Yet they voted for Trump, who made billions screwing working and middle-class people over. He finds himself sued by his contractors for nonpayment. In truth, there's little Trump or Clinton can do to reopen those factories in the midwest. However, Trump can work with Congress to reduce government grants so those workers can go back to school for skills needed in the information economy. Yes, those voters are anger. But does one act wisely or make serious mistakes when acting of anger?

But Trump is already backtracking on his campaign promises. We're no longer taking about deporting 11 million undocumented immigrants. It's now scaled down to 2-3 million. That's well within the range deported under Obama. Oh yes, Trump will deport undocumented immigrants that commit additional crimes in America. Guess what other president did that? Well, all of them really.

Now he's not even going to repeal the whole of Obamacare (which would be up to Congress anyway and they keep failing to be able to do that...) Now he'll keep most of the ACA, according to what he's saying now.

More on what he's already walking away from on CNN See the end of the article; this is literally walking away (without the common misuse of the word, Oakdale

So we could be looking at a whole lot of disappointed Conservatives to outright neo-nazis/fascists/Klan members. His success as president might hinge on him being able to put his business experience to work on the economy. If so, his failure to keep those promises could be forgiven by most. But his trade policy as stated remains scary on the economic end. But he could turn out to be bluffing on a 35 percent tax on Mexican imports and a 45 percent tax on Chinese goods.

Quote from: rjhowie on 2016-11-16, 04:54:01

On Clinton's side she came out with utter midden (garbage to ex-colonists) about Putin and Russia influencing the electoral system. No proof -nothing

This is not entirely correct. I pointed out before that forensics indicates the attacks on the DNC servers did originate from Russia. However, this is not proof that Putin had anything to do with it. Please understand the difference. Let's say in the next 4 or 8 years Russian servers get hacked from the US. Would this mean Trump did it? Of course not.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1759 – 2016-11-16, 13:01:09

Dog bless America!

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1760 – 2016-11-16, 13:28:22

So, he wasn't elected by the people. He was elected by the States.
Hence, he isn't the president of the people. He is the president of the States.
Whatever it means.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1761 – 2016-11-16, 15:11:50

Quote from: Barulheira on 2016-11-16, 13:28:22

So, he wasn't elected by the people. He was elected by the States.
Hence, he isn't the president of the people. He is the president of the States.
Whatever it means.

It means it's constitutional, if you actually read the constitution. The president is supposed to be elected by electors who are appointed by the states. The constitution does not promise that the people get to elect the president. Americans are under the impression that they get to elect the president probably because they are taught wrong things about their constitution in school. And because the process has been made intentionally messy.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1762 – 2016-11-16, 15:25:09

Quote from: Barulheira on 2016-11-16, 13:28:22

Hence, he isn't the president of the people. He is the president of the States.
Whatever it means.

It probably means, president of the United States.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1763 – 2016-11-16, 15:57:35

Still meaningless.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1764 – 2016-11-16, 19:59:59

Quote from: krake on 2016-11-16, 15:25:09

It probably means, president of the United States.

They aren't very united at the moment. Perhaps never.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1765 – 2016-11-16, 20:16:15

Quote from: ersi on 2016-11-16, 08:11:50

Americans are under the impression that they get to elect the president probably because they are taught wrong things about their constitution in school.

Nah, they teach it right. Theory and practice are the differences. It's why you still hear the "Republic" thing from Americans. In theory the State's relationship to the Federal Gov has republic qualities (not the people's). Things like ratification and State's sovereignty are there to keep a democratic body from changing the fundamental structure of the Union. Also in theory the electoral college is the 1st level security for election of the President. (The "are you sure?" popup.) In practice most states award all their electoral points to who wins the popular vote in their State. If someone wanted to change that it would then require changing it in your home State by voting local. To change it on a Federal level should require ratification.

Voting for the President is the least important place to cast your vote... That's what should be but isn't taught.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1766 – 2016-11-16, 23:04:49

Quote from: ensbb3 on 2016-11-16, 20:16:15

In practice most states award all their electoral points to who wins the popular vote in their State.

Nebraska and Maine can split their electoral votes.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1767 – 2016-11-17, 00:17:47

It's a well known fact.......if not, it should be.......the word DEMOCRACY is not mentioned anywhere in the U.S. Constitution.

The word DEMOCRACY is not mentioned anywhere in the Constitutions of any of the States.

The word DEMOCRACY is not mentioned anywhere in the Declaration of Independence.

The logical question would then be........Why?

Simply because the Founding Fathers wanting nothing to do with DEMOCRACY.....they know that a DEMOCRACY would eventually destroy itself.

This desire to not form a DEMOCRACY is well spelled out in many of their writings, & the transcripts & accountings of the debates prior to ratification of the Constitution, even before the Declaration itself.

That's why they instituted a Republic.......

[glow=blue,2,300] A Constitutional Republic [/glow]

[glow=blue,2,300]A Constitutional Republic, based in part, on simple democratic principals,
but grounded firmly on a 'Rule of Law' ....... the United States Constitution. [/glow]

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj0zBMq1EaE[/VIDEO]

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1768 – 2016-11-17, 02:49:56

when theres voting , there's democracy .
the idea is back to ancient europe , voting with stones .

i guess republican will still become republican.
doubled standard as always .

and democrats , well ... this is new .
they also can be a sore loser .

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1769 – 2016-11-17, 10:37:51

"This is not a DEMOCRACY (sic)", hence the voting system makes sense.
Well... no.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1770 – 2016-11-17, 11:13:53

The system was put in place by the US founding fathers to prevent people like Trump from taking power. That system clearly lost the first round, but I think it will win in the end.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1771 – 2016-11-17, 11:14:10

Yes a very riveting and direct point there Smiley. All those no doubt middle-class young college dafties need to grow up. They were happy enough about the "system" when the media went daft on the Democrat candidate, they didn't bother with the political college thing either. But when they lost all tears, crying, going daft. Is there something even worse about the educational system than already known? If they are going to continue demonstrating for yonks because they lost all they will do is make the country a laughing stock. Boasting about democracy and how great their country is then acting like a bunch of illiterate head cases. All those young students do is make themselves look immature and brain dead. It was big money the media who rattled on in the Clinton camp and they were easily brained into the daftness.

Did those would-be principled idiots ever go out on the mater f the large numbers who lost jobs, houses, etc due to factory and business closures? Nope. Did they go national on the millions of poor? Nope. Afunny kind of liberal thinking altogether I muse and they act like spoiled brats.

The election is over so I do hope they mentally grow up before they are pensioners!

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1772 – 2016-11-17, 13:09:11

I dedicate a small portion of Sir Walter Scott's poem, Marmion, to Sir Donald Trump.
========

‘In brief, my lord, we both descried
(For then I stood by Henry’s side)
The Palmer mount, and outwards ride,
Upon the Earl’s own favourite steed:
All sheathed he was in armour bright, 510
And much resembled that same knight,
Subdued by you in Cotswold fight:
Lord Angus wish’d him speed.’-
The instant that Fitz-Eustace spoke,
A sudden light on Marmion broke;- 515
‘Ah! dastard fool, to reason lost!’
He mutter’d; ‘Twas nor fay nor ghost
I met upon the moonlight wold,
But living man of earthly mould.-
O dotage blind and gross! 520
Had I but fought as wont, one thrust
Had laid De Wilton in the dust,
My path no more to cross.-
How stand we now?-he told his tale
To Douglas; and with some avail; 525
‘Twas therefore gloom’d his rugged brow.-
Will Surrey dare to entertain,
‘Gainst Marmion, charge disproved and vain?
Small risk of that, I trow.
Yet Clare’s sharp questions must I shun; 330
Must separate Constance from the Nun-
O, what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!
A Palmer too!-no wonder why
I felt rebuked beneath his eye: 535
I might have known there was but one,
Whose look could quell Lord Marmion.’

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1773 – 2016-11-17, 14:05:35

Quote from: jax on 2016-11-17, 11:13:53

That system clearly lost the first round, but I think it will win in the end.

I wish you were right.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1774 – 2016-11-17, 15:37:25

Quote from: rjhowie on 2016-11-17, 11:14:10

If they are going to continue demonstrating for yonks because they lost all they will do is make the country a laughing stock.

You do know the Republicans were demonstrating and held bizarre conspiracy theories against Obama for eight years, right? But this time it's not merely because Clinton lost. It's because a lot of people are terrified of Trump and what he'll do to the country. And also because of the spat of racial attacks since Trump got elected and invoking his name (a couple days ago we had already past 400, just what people were afraid of.) Now he wants Stephen Bannon, a highly suspected White Nationalist as his chief strategist, which is what I said would happen with Trump. These "people" would infiltrate the highest levels of government.