Skip to main content
Topic: What's Going on in Europe (Read 256970 times)

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1025
The maker of this video would have shown himself more knowledgeable, if Moldova and Romania had followed each other immediately, but as it is it it is good enough compared to some other completely disorganised videos that I saw.
That problem applies to several the language families though, not just the Latinate ones. (E.g., where's Norse? Or rather, what's it doing there?)

It has timestamps at the bottom, so as far as a YouTube video goes I'm happy. The most annoying thing in these kinds of videos is having to search for something specific yourself.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1026
That problem applies to several the language families though, not just the Latinate ones.
There is a bit deeper problem: Is it more important to provide samples of languages (in that case, where is Basque, Saami, etc.) or of countries (in that case, where is Switzerland, Belgium, etc.)?

We may think that this video is a sloppy compromise, but actually it's the best among a bunch that I sat through. Nobody has done a better one yet. Either this one is good enough for the time being or we dudeperfects must make a better one.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1027
Languages in Europe as seen in the news. For the convenience of you-all, I have set the video to start at the most important language of them all.

It's more or less

https://youtu.be/r_AJbEoArkU

one language we speak, Standard Average European.  Europe is the (sub)continent with the least linguistic diversity in the world. We can probably blame the Romans and other empires for that.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1028
Debunking a myth - Russia's "annexation" of Crimea

Researchers from a German institute found out that the vast majority of people in Crimea would vote for the status quo in a repeat referendum.

Quote
Asked directly, "How would you vote if a referendum about Crimea joining the Russian Federation was held today?" 78.8 percent of respondents in Crimea and the city of Sevastopol said they would vote "the same as in March 2014." Only 2.4 percent said they would make a different choice, while 6.8 percent declined to answer the question.


In case you wonder, the "German institute" the above article is referring to was established by the German Bundestag.
Such findings will hardly make their way into our guidet 'free' mass media and even Google will take care that such news get buried so they can't be found easy.

BTW, a more comprehensive article in German language can be found here.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1029
It's more or less [...] one language we speak, Standard Average European.  Europe is the (sub)continent with the least linguistic diversity in the world. We can probably blame the Romans and other empires for that.
The video actually says that the hypothesis has been tested and it does not hold. But I don't blame you, linguistic statements are pretty subtle.

@krake
Polling has no effect on whether Russia annexed Crimea or not. Looking at the timeline of the relevant historical events does that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1030
@ersi
So polling and the right of self-determination of Crimeans isn't relevant.
What's relevant to you is the biased propaganda spread by our mainstream. No problem for me - go for it.
The polling demonstrates clearly that it was the free will of Crimeans to secede. They would vote for the secession today as they did in 2014.
Without Russians securing the referendum in 2014 it would have been turned by the fascist putschists into a bloodshed.
I know, some people feel frustrated because that bloodshed was prevented...
So far about the myth of Crimea's 'annexation'.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1031

The video actually says that the hypothesis has been tested and it does not hold. But I don't blame you, linguistic statements are pretty subtle.

It doesn't say that at all, but obviously we don't speak a single language. Just as obviously there isn't as much variety in Europe as there is elsewhere in the world. On the third hand the languages we've got, that have survived the onslaught of empires through the millennia, are generally healthy. Taking the assumption that half today's languages will be extinct by next century, very few of those will be European. 

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1032
When Ukraine and Russia became independent countries Crimea was recognized by Ukraine, Russia, and the rest of the world as an integral part of Ukraine. No number of Russian military annexations will change that.  Crimea is clearly and absolutely Ukrainian by international law.

Eventually fait accompli might kick in, but the Russians would have to wait a very, very long time for that to happen. Morocco's annexation of (and de facto control of most of) Western Sahara is still not recognized 38 years later. Indonesia's annexation of East Timor at about the same time wasn't recognized and today it is an independent country.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1033
Taking the assumption that half today's languages will be extinct by next century, very few of those will be European.
All of that depends on the definition of a language. We're generally a lot quicker to call some African language a language than our own. It's hardly controversial among linguists to divide the West Germanic continental languages into Franconian (Dutch), Low German (aka Low Saxon) and High German (aka Standard German). Mainstream German thought, however, would regard Low German as merely a dialect (and Nazi-era Germany would have the same be true of Dutch). When it's some native African languages we're significantly more impartial observers as far as that goes, but we're oddly overcompensating to boot.

The Chinese "dialects" are obviously quite distinct Sinitic languages. But over in Africa there are plenty of languages that we'd call dialects over here. Of course the famous quip is that a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot (mostly notably perhaps Denmark and Sweden) and with dialect continuums many distinctions are arbitrary, but that's not a problem provided the arbitrary distinctions are sufficiently consistent. However, there's an important difference between language consolidation (i.e., various dialects becoming a more standardized national language like in Europe) and language extinction. The former is a process we can observe in Flanders today, while the latter is something that the Belgian state attempted in the 19th century.

Eventually fait accompli might kick in, but the Russians would have to wait a very, very long time for that to happen. Morocco's annexation of (and de facto control of most of) Western Sahara is still not recognized 38 years later. Indonesia's annexation of East Timor at about the same time wasn't recognized and today it is an independent country.
Indonesia also annexed West Papua thanks to US meddling. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB128/ The Netherlands had learned its lesson from the late 1940s humanitarian fiasco (we would've won the war but we'd have been the bad guys). Like a true communist regime, the US came up with the euphemistic "Act of Free Choice."

NB Tu quoques are not a justification for anything Russia did or does.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1034
So polling and the right of self-determination of Crimeans isn't relevant.
If there were an ethnic group called Crimeans, it would be. And there are rules how a referendum for self-determination should take place, for example it should not take place under a foreign occupation, all local representatives as far as possible should be participating, international observers should have access to the procedures. None of this was true in case of Crimea: The Crimean parliament was occupied by gunmen, under those gunmen they shifted the planned referendum several times several months earlier, many members of the parliament were blocked from the relevant voting in the parliament and they declared the current state of affairs illegal.

To you, of course, all this matters nothing. Even the fact that there are no Crimeans in the relevant sense whose self-determination is best served by Russian annexation. But there are good reasons why international organisations don't recognise this referendum.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1035
All of that depends on the definition of a language.
Then by all means let's define a language. I think the definition is conceptually clear enough, but realities on the ground make it tricky.

The core of the definition is mutual intelligibility. Problems arise when one observes that some people are better at intelligibility of things and others are less so, and that intelligibility is often asymmetrical due to sociopolitical reasons. This is why there are attempts to define mutual intelligibility in terms of what it should be rather than what it is and there are also attempts to quantify things.

The usual way to empirically quantify language boundaries is by mapping isoglosses. Mostly you will get a pretty good picture with distinct lines. The "Charlemagne area" may be a thing in typological terms, but it's certainly not a thing in lexical and morphological terms.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1036
The Chinese "dialects" are obviously quite distinct Sinitic languages. But over in Africa there are plenty of languages that we'd call dialects over here. Of course the famous quip is that a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot (mostly notably perhaps Denmark and Sweden) and with dialect continuums many distinctions are arbitrary, but that's not a problem provided the arbitrary distinctions are sufficiently consistent. However, there's an important difference between language consolidation (i.e., various dialects becoming a more standardized national language like in Europe) and language extinction. The former is a process we can observe in Flanders today, while the latter is something that the Belgian state attempted in the 19th century.

I am fine with considering Scandinavian to be one language, in fact I do it myself. There is a continuum if you travel from Western Norway to Eastern Sweden, though with a fairly clear discontinuity when you cross the border. The closest Norwegian and Swedish dialects are closer than the two most distant Norwegian dialects.  Swedes consider Norwegian more intelligible than Danish, and Danes consider Norwegian more intelligible than Swedish as well. That is somewhat interesting as there was a dialectical branching all the way back to Old Norse a millennium ago. Back then Norwegians and Icelanders spoke the Western dialect, Danes and Swedes the Eastern. Furthermore, while Norway was partially isolated from the other two, the Danes and Swedes spent that millennium battling each other over which French-speaking German should be their king.

It goes down, I think, to army, navy and tv channels. Like Italian standardised on the Florentine dialect, Swedish standardised on the Stockholm dialect, Danish on the Zealand dialect, Newly independent Norwegian half on a mix of older Danish and eastern dialects and half on "pure" inland dialects. One and a half century of schooling and half a century of television has lead to the dialects as spoken in Copenhagen, Oslo and Stockholm dominating the rest, and Oslo is closer to either of the other two than Copenhagen is to Stockholm.

The Sami languages are more typical of the languages at risk in the world. It is a small number of speakers over many languages/dialects, where all but the largest one are at risk. Sorbian would be another typical candidate.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1037
The usual way to empirically quantify language boundaries is by mapping isoglosses. Mostly you will get a pretty good picture with distinct lines. The "Charlemagne area" may be a thing in typological terms, but it's certainly not a thing in lexical and morphological terms.
For "German" there's a pretty decent overlap. :)

Anyway, we don't need to define a language, although I happen to think the isogloss method works well enough. What I was going to say is that to have an informed opinion is how a language was defined for that statement that half of the world's languages will go extinct and how it was applied. But a slight bit of logical reflection led me to realize that as far as government support goes there are probably no more than a few hundred languages at the very most that can realistically survive in the long run under current conditions, even if they have over a million speakers. I mean, several of France's regional languages had (I repeat: had) more than a million speakers each, yet it would make perfect sense to call their equivalents in a country like Brazil endangered for the exact same reasons. It wouldn't surprise me if Brazil's non-Portuguese languages were significantly more endangered.

So if we assume there are a few thousand languages (I seem to recall being taught there are some 5000) then logic dictates far more than half of those are in fact endangered. Even if we assume that number should be reduced to a mere 1000 or so by slightly different definitions.

Calling it languages is probably one of those things meant to sound dramatic in order to appeal to the public interest, but as someone slightly more informed than average it got my attention in the wrong way. Quibbling over the definition of language used is but a red herring. An ongoing and upcoming mass extinction of linguistic diversity is undeniably logical regardless what you call it.



Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1040
I should have known that Brazil has been annexed by Europe (again).

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1041
You  were always annexed by PORTUGAL, Never by Europe and defended from us from Dutch and French thiefs.
Thanks to that, our bonomy and a traitor kING, You are a NATION.
A matter of attitude.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1042
..


[glow=black,2,300]Germans, & the EU, fear huge job losses because of US tax reform.[/glow]



Source:      Handelsblatt Global     
Quote
While Americans are anxiously awaiting full details of the tax bill now being finalized in Congress, German economists are warning that the changes sought by President Donald Trump mean that significant amounts of new investment and jobs will shift from Europe to the United States.

“The tax competition will have a new dimension,” said Christoph Spengel, chairman of the corporate tax department at the University of Mannheim. Mr. Spengel, who is also a research associate at the Center for European Economic Research, and a group of tax experts at the university have done a detailed comparison of the two countries’ tax systems and published a report under the heading, “Germany loses out in US tax reform.”

Clemens Fuest, who heads the Ifo economic think tank, also said he believed German business would suffer. “Investments and jobs will migrate to the US,” he said.


President Trump is movin' on with his   "[glow=blue,2,300]America First [/glow]"   Pledge to Americans.

Being that all the EU Nations voted against the USA recently on the Israeli Capitol of Jerusalem issue, the President is mulling over cutting aid to them, starting with Germany,  just to show the EU who needs whom.  

He is also contemplating cutting UN funding, for all projects, by 50% for one year.

  The European Countries will start, slowly at first, but start they will to accept Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel. 

US funding that arrives every year may be in the balance, but by accepting Israel's claim for Jerusalem individually, they may be thanked with continued  American Economic Gratitude. 

If the UN doesn't understand which side their bread's buttered on, the other 50% of US funding for all projects may start to dry up sooner rather than later.

They may also be looking for a new home, if they don't mind their manners.....May I suggest Bonn as a possible alternative to Manhattan?

President Trump does not follow the UN's lead, nor Europe's.

They may eventually fall to the wayside & wither unless they follow the US President's strong  "lead"  for Jerusalem acceptance.

The President doesn't see the UN action the other day as a "Trivial Matter", but he sees that the UN has taken America's generosity for granted for far too long.

[glow=blue,2,300]America First! [/glow]      


 
     In times of universal deceit, telling the honest truth is a revolutionary act.

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1043
US funding that arrives every year may be in the balance, but by accepting Israel's claim for Jerusalem individually, they may be thanked with continued  American Economic Gratitude.
Investment is about 50/50. 2561.2 €bn European investments in the US; 2436.4 €bn US investments in the EU.

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/united-states/

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1044
I thought I had seen some truly deluded takes on Jerusalem, but this was an original tack. To recap:

The political, economic and military situation is unchanged. This is mostly pandering to the crazies. It's great for the crazy Muslims and the crazy Jews, neither of whom matter much in the US, and the crazy Christians, who do. A bit like ISIL; though with a different narrative (i.e. their reading of the Book of Revelation), they too want to hasten Armageddon and the end of the world.

It marginally shift the balance from the "get on with it" crowd to the "we must be 50% more crazy or God will forsake us" crowd. Annoying, distracting, sure, but nothing compared with the other issues of the day.

To Europeans this matter more because the Middle East is part of our neighbourhood, like the Caribbean is part of the US neighbourhood. The distance from Rome to Jerusalem is 2285 km, to herein Södertälje the distance is 1944 km. Helsinki is closer to Jerusalem than it is to Lisbon. Jerusalem is 380 km (235 miles) from the EU border.



The American influence on Europe is waning, and waning faster than I hoped. I think the US had a very positive impact on Europe in the 19th and 20th century, and should have had it in this century too.  

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1045
Well firstly on that passing comment from jax on American influence in Europe I am glad it is waning so hooray.As for tht weirdo that the USA elected as President what a head-shaking man. He has said one thing before elected then another when elected. I have no issue with the the idea of a non-politico being elected in principle but this man is something else. Now he is threatening to stop dishing out money to countries because they are supporting the UN on the nonsense of trump declaring Jerusalem to be the Zionist capital. Typical or corporate run America about controlling countries so you either support the system or heaven help you. The huge cuts for the corporates will please them as they run America and the shortage of money will be added to the trillions of debt the country has so it is not as straightforward as bellowed about. Ridiculous.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1046
Quote from: Mark Twain
History doesn't repeat, but it surely rhymes.

UKRAINE ON FIRE a documentary by Oliver Stone.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAaMRAplJks[/video]

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1047
@krake But it's a documentary made by Americans. How can you trust this?

Oliver Stone is good with portraits. Not so good with fact-checking.

 

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1048
@krake But it's a documentary made by Americans. How can you trust this?
Bear in mind that moral integrity and IQ don't hinge on someone's nationality, race or color of the skin!

Re: What's Going on in Europe

Reply #1049
Bear in mind that moral integrity and IQ don't hinge on someone's nationality, race or color of the skin!
Moral integrity and IQ are the reasons why I reject the documentary.

For example, at 3:07 it says that Ukraine borderland between east and west. At 3:37 it says Ukraine has been the pathway for western powers when they tried to conquer east. Well, how about the opposite direction? Because isn't that what "borderland" means? And later in the documentary Putin appears to be presented as one of the foremost authority on Ukrainian affairs. Why, given the absence of e.g. Merkel?

I also reject the depiction of the deposition of Yanukovych as a Banderaist coup. I happen to know the history and the current state of affairs better than the documentary presents it. The only value of the documentary would be to educate dumb Americans, but unfortunately it's too tendentious to even serve that low purpose. It works as a portrait of Yanukovych though, just like Oliver Stone's documentary on Fidel Castro works very well as a portrait. Stone is good with portraits.