The DnD Sanctuary

Otter Browser is an attempt to recreate some of Opera's interface, excluding some of the more recent regressions (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15070632). The first binaries are now available <a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/otter-browser/">for download[/url].

http://otter-browser.org/
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU1NjU

Yes, I was thinking this product/project merits its own thread :)

But hey, no Linux binary?

But hey, no Linux binary?

Hm? There's a DEB available for both 32-bit and 64-bit Linux. Unfortunately, it's not immediately obvious to me how to satisfy the dependencies. In that sense the Windows version is actually more accessible.

Quote from: ersi on 2014-01-01, 17:59:29

But hey, no Linux binary?

Hm? There's a DEB available for both 32-bit and 64-bit Linux.

Where? I see instructions to install from source https://github.com/Emdek/otter/blob/master/INSTALL and only win32 binary here http://sourceforge.net/projects/otter-browser/

I have noticed 'otter' package in synaptic, but this is another project: resolution-style theorem prover at version 3.3.

Correction: Yes, my second link contains links to a .deb file in bottom right corner. Reminder to myself: always examine all links.

Still, where is the 64-bit version?

It gives me a link straight to the 64-bit version. Perhaps the site doesn't deal with Elinks very well?

Here's the link to all the binaries:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/otter-browser/files/otter-browser-alpha1/

But I think you'll have to install the whole of Qt 5.2, and I don't really feel like trying to figure all that out. http://qt-project.org/downloads

I gave Otter a quick try in a virtual XP. It's surprisingly functional and fast already, but there doesn't seem to be any attempt at implementing customization yet. The programmer achieved these results so quickly by focusing exclusively on the GUI, while the toolkit and engine are provided by Qt. Kind of like what Opera says they're doing.

I gave Otter a quick try in a virtual XP. It's surprisingly functional and fast already, but there doesn't seem to be any attempt at implementing customization yet.

At this early stage it's hard to make predictions. So far it's lightweight and seems to be fast.
More customization options will come for sure.
Might be worth to keep an eye on this project.

ׂ

Is it fast on Windows?

It seems to be slightly faster than Opera Presto. However I've only tested with scripting disabled and only on a few pages.
One of the most interesting things for me is to see how modular the final product will look like.

The GUI is fast and responsive, at least on my Win7.

ׂ

It gives me a link straight to the 64-bit version. Perhaps the site doesn't deal with Elinks very well?

This page http://sourceforge.net/projects/otter-browser/ links to otter-browser_0.1.01_i386.deb only. This page http://sourceforge.net/projects/otter-browser/files/otter-browser-alpha1/ is good for three files:
- otter-browser-alpha1-win32-v2.zip
- otter-browser_0.1.01_i386.deb
- otter-browser_0.1.01_amd64.deb

Looking with Opera 12. Anyway, as you indicated, dependencies related to something called qt5 seem to pose such an obstacle to installation that it's too much to bother.

I am fearful of this "Qt" framework. Is it fast on Windows?

I saw that you use SMPlayer. SMPlayer uses Qt. So do VLC and many other applications.

The GUI is fast and responsive, at least on my Win7.

It's fast and responsive on my XP in VirtualBox, unlike IE and Chropera.

Okay, compiling is fairly simple (and amazingly fast) all in all.

1. Download the Qt 5.2 SDK.
2. Compile and see what's missing. In my case (Debian Wheezy), that was libgstreamer0.10-dev, libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev, and libxslt1-dev. You might need others like build-essential, but I already had all that so I couldn't say.

I created some fan art:

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fpolymathicmonkey.smugmug.com%2FFrans%2FScreenshots%2Fn-d5sFT%2Fi-V44dWBV%2F0%2FM%2Fotter-with-neck-outline-M.png&hash=3d31856d145c2e73bf56d5fd4032ff77" rel="cached" data-hash="3d31856d145c2e73bf56d5fd4032ff77" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://polymathicmonkey.smugmug.com/Frans/Screenshots/n-d5sFT/i-V44dWBV/0/M/otter-with-neck-outline-M.png)

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fpolymathicmonkey.smugmug.com%2FFrans%2FScreenshots%2Fn-d5sFT%2Fi-9Gt6VJq%2F0%2FM%2Fotter-with-neck-M.png&hash=0d98cd3e1a8939248da1339475c61670" rel="cached" data-hash="0d98cd3e1a8939248da1339475c61670" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://polymathicmonkey.smugmug.com/Frans/Screenshots/n-d5sFT/i-9Gt6VJq/0/M/otter-with-neck-M.png)

If you want to play with it, I the source is here (https://gist.github.com/Frenzie/8257159).

Okay, compiling is fairly simple (and amazingly fast) all in all.

1. Download the Qt 5.2 SDK.
2. Compile and see what's missing. In my case (Debian Wheezy), that was libgstreamer0.10-dev, libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev, and libxslt1-dev. You might need others like build-essential, but I already had all that so I couldn't say.

Let's see, last time I checked Qt was a monstrosity all by itself ;)

Let's see, last time I checked Qt was a monstrosity all by itself

At 500MB I guess I can't disagree. :P

This is a post to praise 'yaourt', Arch Linux's package manager. It may superficially look like any old download&install centre with command-line interface, but in fact it automates package building from source. As a result, the installation process for a package looks like some install wizard on Windows, except that it's command line :) Along the way, the user is provided with chances to modify installation scripts, info on and detouring to install the dependencies and such.

I noticed that 'otter-browser' is already an entity in 'yaourt'. Sure enough, Qt5 was a requirement. I followed the steps to build and install it. It gave no errors, but the end product unfortunately doesn't launch. I don't know why and I don't care too much. I went through the same process to install Opera 11.62 and this launches and browses just fine :)

I noticed that 'otter-browser' is already an entity in 'yaourt'. Sure enough, Qt5 was a requirement. I followed the steps to build and install it. It gave no errors, but the end product unfortunately doesn't launch. I don't know why and I don't care too much.

Hey, today it launched! I am posting in Otter now.

Praised be 'yaourt'!

How do you manage the Qt5 looks?

I don't. I have launched Otter browser only a few times to find that not much is there yet. If I had interaction with the guy, I would present my requests for the interface and features. Qt5 is just an obscure dependency that I don't even look at.

It's just that for Qt4 there's qtconfig (http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/qt4-qtconfig), but as far as I can tell there's nothing similar for Qt5. And for some reason Qt5 looks worse in Jessie than it did in Wheezy.

Frenzie, this is the place to share the guy's irc channel:

#otter-browser on freenode http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15073672

I noticed this only now. I will try to connect as soon as I get off work.

I tried Otter Browser today.  I managed to make it crash in less than a minute without even trying to :(.  Guess it really is an alpha.  I'll give it a few months and try again; fortunately Opera 12 is still doing pretty well on all the sites I frequent.

What'd you try to do that made it crash?

I like it's simplicity....I'll use it as one of my goto browsers, which I use in my launcher if I come across a  difficult site.

And there I thought I had a fair number of browsers around. :)

What'd you try to do that made it crash?

I managed to crash it when it initiated a download from Sourceforge and I refused the download. Seems to be consistent. Don't refuse downloads!

@ersi, which version it was?
Some specific tag or recent master?
That issue was fixed some time ago, don't tell me it's back. ;-)

Probably it was the firstest ever release.

Retried right now at the same place with 0.3. No crash, works fine, good-looking transfers page :up:

Good, AFAIR it was fixed just after second alpha.

Otter Browser is an attempt to recreate some of Opera's interface, excluding some of the more recent regressions (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15070632).

The link is down, and I do wonder what regressions you mean?

Quote from: Frenzie on 2014-01-01, 17:44:59

Otter Browser is an attempt to recreate some of Opera's interface, excluding some of the more recent regressions (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15070632).

The link is down, and I do wonder what regressions you mean?

The entire Opera forums is down now. If I remember correctly, the post listed a bunch of lost features. There were some features lost with the transition from version 11 to 12, and after that basically everything was lost, so the thing could hardly be called a browser.

I think it was just Emdek mentioning a few things more explicitly than this:

Also you have to keep in mind that classic Opera regressed substantially in recent versions, simplifying (in some places far too much) and removing features (even before dropping whole "Opera" after 12.x) by trying to keep up with simplicity of Chrome and IE.

The particular post I linked to seems to have been me talking about the annoying Opera button, but my intent was probably on the thread in general:

Quote from: blackbird71

Hmm. That may be true in some sense, but in both my Opera 11.52 and 12.14u setups (which I'm looking at even as I type this), the tab bar appears at the bottom of the Opera screen (which is where I want it to be), and the red Opera button is indeed at its far left... as it has for a very long time. However, in 11.52, the button simply contains the half-"O"-logo and lacks the "Opera" text that appears in the 12.14 version.

Well, this is what it looks like for me. It's true in each and every sense.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fpolymathicmonkey.smugmug.com%2FFrans%2FScreenshots%2Fn-d5sFT%2Fi-KvSkXDc%2F0%2FO%2Fscreenshot-opera-presto-button-01012014-fs8.png&hash=167b18b235457f9eca9eaa8abe13b700" rel="cached" data-hash="167b18b235457f9eca9eaa8abe13b700" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://polymathicmonkey.smugmug.com/Frans/Screenshots/n-d5sFT/i-KvSkXDc/0/O/screenshot-opera-presto-button-01012014-fs8.png)

Put the tabs on bottom and it creates its own empty "tab bar". Disable the tab bar and it does the exact same thing. This button is almost as annoying as the broken addressbar, but keeping the tabs both enabled and on top isn't nearly as annoying as hard-coded text colors that become unreadable if you want to use the "wrong" background color. The addressbar is the worst bug in Opera 11+. The Opera button is the second-worst.

Quote from: blackbird71

However, in 11.52, the button simply contains the half-"O"-logo and lacks the "Opera" text that appears in the 12.14 version.

It's a half-O button for me in regular use. I don't know when, how, or why it decides to flip around between one display mode and another.

Then that particular post was about a misguided innovation. I also opposed that button as soon as it appeared. It was uncustomisable, un(re)movable. It went against the logic of all the other buttons.

I also opposed that button as soon as it appeared. It was uncustomisable, un(re)movable.

I have to amit that it's a little bit tricky but it was/is removable.

(https://vivaldi.net/media/com_easysocial/photos/7324/38098/7e456c4e710a8a855e39e7d1cfee7b1e_original.png)

I followed several instructions to get rid of it. They didn't last too many restarts.

Just get the menu bar, dude!

I followed several instructions to get rid of it. They didn't last too many restarts.

It lasted here since I disabled it for the first time and that was quite a long time ago.
Keep in mind that the button is basically a toolbar. So you have to mark it and under Appearence\Toolbars\Placement set it to "Off". That's it.

So you have to mark it and under Appearence\Toolbars\Placement set it to "Off". That's it.

And you actually got that to stick?  :insane:

Quote from: krake on 2014-04-14, 10:20:28

So you have to mark it and under Appearence\Toolbars\Placement set it to "Off". That's it.

And you actually got that to stick?  :insane:

I wonder how it stuck for him. This solution didn't last too long for me. It cannot be just my lack of trying across updates and upgrades. Well, I'll do it again. We'll see how long it lasts this time.

Edit: Right, I remember now. Switching to the menubar and back proves fatal to this solution.

Edit: Right, I remember now. Switching to the menubar and back proves fatal to this solution.

Exactly :)
If you switch the menubar on, the button will reappear if more than one tab is open.
However it makes little sense to enable the menubar since you can use the Alt key instead.

Another thing I forgot to mention (it's a long time since I did it last time) is to disable "Enable thumbnails in tabs" (under Appearence\Toolbars\Placement) when switching the button/toolbar off.
Hovering over the tabs will still show you the site.

... you can use the Alt key instead.

This is part of the problem. All keyboard shortcuts used to be over-doable the same way as all buttons, but with the introduction of the zombie button, you were stuck with both the button and the hard-coded inalterable Alt key dysfunctionality.

Quote from: krake on 2014-04-14, 13:58:33

... you can use the Alt key instead.

This is part of the problem. All keyboard shortcuts used to be over-doable the same way as all buttons, but with the introduction of the zombie button, you were stuck with both the button and the hard-coded inalterable Alt key dysfunctionality.

I did a fresh install for testing. I enabled the menu bar. The button still remained switched off. I started and closed the browser for several times. Still no button. If you prefer to use Opera with the menubar, no problem. You don't have to switch it on and off all the time.

Right, I don't have to switch the menubar on and off all he time, but when I do, the zombie button is back. Also, looks like any editing of the toolbars anywhere tends to resurrect it. Ergo: The button won't stay away.

Well, everybody has its own way to use the browser.
All I can tell is that after customizing the "Appearence" and disabling the button it never came back.
I customize the GUI of the browser (or of any other software) to fit my needs once for all and not on a daily or weekly bases.
Makes no sense to argue endlessly. For you it comes back, for me it doesn't. :)